May 24: Nevada governor Joe Lombardo has given his stamp of approval, formally announcing the tentative agreement in a press release (Twitter link via Akers).
“This agreement follows months of negotiations between the state, the county and the A’s, and I believe it gives us a tremendous opportunity to continue building on the professional sports infrastructure of southern Nevada,” Lombardo said in a statement within today’s release. “Las Vegas is clearly a sports town, and Major League Baseball should be a part of it.”
The agreement will be introduced in Nevada Legislature “in the coming days to be publicly debated and considered,” per the press release.
May 23: The Athletics and lawmakers in Nevada have reached a tentative agreement on a stadium funding structure, per reports from both Mick Akers and Steve Sebelius of the Las Vegas Review-Journal and Tabitha Mueller and Howard Stutz of the Nevada Independent.
The Athletics initially agreed to a land purchase just west of the Las Vegas strip and were going to be asking for $500MM in public funding via county-issued bonds to be paid by tax dollars related to the stadium and relocation project. A few weeks later, they changed their target to a plot of land on the strip currently occupied by the Tropicana hotel, and were planning on filing a funding request last week for a lesser amount of $395MM.
Reporting on Friday indicated that there was a meaningful gap in what the A’s were seeking and what legislators was willing to provide. That seemed to suggest that there was at least some chance of the whole plan falling through and the club turning their attention back to Oakland, but this deal seems to push the organization closer to manifesting their relocation plans.
Per both reports, the agreed-upon deal includes a total of around $380MM in public money heading to the project. That is composed of $180MM from the state in transferable tax credits, with $90MM to be repaid over time from stadium revenues. Then there’s $120-125MM coming from Clark County in the form of bonds and another $25MM for infrastructure improvements. There will also be a 30-year property tax exemption issued by the county, which has an estimated value of $55MM.
Although the sides seem to have reached an agreement, there are still some more steps to go through. It has to be formally presented to the legislature, with filing potentially happening as soon as Wednesday, and then it needs to be approved as well as being signed by Governor Joe Lombardo. Major League Baseball’s relocation committee also needs to rubber stamp the project. The site is also close enough to Harry Reid International Airport that the Federal Aviation Administration will need to provide approval before construction can begin. Though those feel like small and surmountable hurdles to overcome compared to agreeing on the financial numbers.
Assuming those hoops are smoothly jumped through, Gaming and Leisure Properties Inc. will provide nine of the 35 acres of the Tropicana site to the A’s for free. The club hopes to construct a 30,000-seat stadium with a retractable roof in time to open for the 2027 season. Once the construction is complete, ownership of the land will transfer to the Las Vegas Stadium Authority. That body also came to own the Allegiant Stadium site, home of the Raiders, after that was completed.
Vegas fans will find out that Fisher doesn’t care about baseball but building a monument to himself and profits. Just like the raiders it will be a disaster.
How is the Raiders Allegent Stadium a disaster?
3rd worst overall attendance in the league and 7th worst as a % of stadium capacity. I wouldn’t call it a disaster but it certainly hasn’t been as successful as they hoped.
Ummm the team kinda sux might have something to do with it.
Teams that were worse, drew more than the Raiders.
Are the A’s going to not suck?
outinleftfield:
those teams that were worse. Have they been in their cities for quite a while with a dedicated fan base?
Let them sit in that city for 20 years and if it is still bad then they have real issues. Trick is if they can afford to wait it out.
I have not followed the NFL in a decade
Do you remember the time when someone said “here’s a quarter, go call somebody who cares”?
Well today it’s “you can’t touch my cell phone & I don’t care.”
I just saved myself a quarter…
All NFL teams have been in their current city longer than the Raiders. The Raiders SHOULD be drawing much better than them because of being the new kids in town. They aren’t. Also, the Raiders last two homes were Oakland and LA. Those are close enough for fans to travel to see games in LV. They aren’t doing it.
You don’t care but took the time to tell us you don’t care.That’s funny mr curly
Look at how much more it costed than first projected to cost. Second the raiders are not even the home team most games half the crowd is cheering for the visitors. as long as Davis is the owner its a bad deal.
half the crowd is cheering for the visitors.
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That’s part of the deal for the city. There might be tens of millions of fans out there unable to watch their favorite team live. like a Cowboy fan living in Florida. So a whole bunch of these people will plan a short vacation to LV to watch their Cowboys, but also paying a hotel bill and doing some gambling. It’s a win-win-win.
Exactly Joe. I know of an owner that doesn’t believe Vegas will support a team simply because most of the employees don’t work 9 to 5 jobs.
However, I’m going to make a trip and see the Angels play the A’s in Vegas. I imagine thousands of fans will be rooting for the Angels.
I think it will be a win-win-win.
Money to the A’s. Visitors to Vegas. Money to the area. And fans like me can go to a nice stadium.
They don’t do that for the Raiders. They certainly won’t do that for the A’s. Especially with how Fisher has gone out of his way to alienate A’s fans.
People don’t go to Las Vegas to go to a baseball or football game. They go to party and gamble. Even if there is a convention, they go to party and gamble.
Every penny they spend on a sporting event, lowers the amount they have to spend on partying and gambling, so the casinos will not be promoting baseball just like they don’t promote the Raiders.
Even one cent spent on a sporting event is a cent that is not spent in the casinos partying and gambling. It’s a LOSING proposition for the casinos.
I was in Las Vegas in early December. Was up about $9k at that point on our first day there and when they offered to comp my room, I asked about Raider’s tickets. The pit boss literally laughed at me. He said he could comp me anything in the casino I was interested in, a room, meals, etc…, but since they didn’t own the Raiders they would not be sending me to their games.
And tax deductible
@outinleftfield
As someone who knows ‘a bit’ about casinos besides giving my money away… they won’t have a problem.
People going to LV right now go for gambling and partying, they are going to gamble and party probably not interested in a sports game. People going to the game are going for the game but may take in a local attraction.
We do similar here just on a much smaller scale that LV would be probably doing.
“The pit boss literally laughed at me.”
You get that a lot, chief.
MUCH less than you do.
The A’s cannot survive unless there are a major tourist destination.
The Raiders are not selling out games there. They are 3oth in average attendance and 26th in percentage of seats sold.
A’s fans arguing that it’s a bad deal for Nevada AND that it will be a financial disaster for the A’s. Can’t be both!
It really can though. Cost overruns on the stadium often get pushed onto the public ledger side, see Levi stadium projected vs final costs. This makes it take far longer for the municipality to pay it down and the economic benefits less.
For the team in a league where teams make the biggest chunk of money from broadcast rights moving from the greater bay area media market to on in the bottom of the top 50 cities with zero exposure outside town since nothing but desert for hundreds of miles. The team will make less than they would with a more expensive stadium in a bigger media market.
Also zero existing fan base in a town with way to much to do…
and most residents that have time to go to games are not rich enough to spend money to the team they have no real intetest in the team.
But hey, the worse the market the more revenue sharing the owner can pocket 🙂
Isn’t that basic causality? If the deal is a financial disaster it will then be bad for Nevada.
How is this any different from 95% of owners? You can blame Fisher or blame a league of owners that approve clowns like him, Loria, Angelos, Wilpons, etc that allow them to continue their shenanigans. It’s all just a really sad frat.
Honestly, the Marlins are the only organization I’ve ever seen that has completely blown up a quality team without any intent of winning in the near future. The only difference is the Marlins weren’t using it as leverage to leave the state.
Last I checked the Wilpons are gone, and the Angelos’s team is pretty good right now after a calculated rebuild.
Opinions only in here-no fact-checking allowed.
But the point was the MLB owners approved them to be owners and should be accountable to their sorry tenure. MLB enables this kind of behavior and will continue.
@rundmc Its worse than any of those other owners. Imagine if your owner tells you for the last 5 years they are close to a new stadium deal in your city then all at once go dead silent. You then hear they signed a deal with another city and traded away all the best players leaving the team with ONLY AAA players.
@ ARC2 — you’re right – I’d thought we’ve seen the depths with Loria, who actually owned multiple teams (Expos, Marlins), but he looks like an choir boy with misguided art tastes compared to what’s going on in OAK right now.
the worse part of it is how little MLB cares about the fans. There is 2 local groups that offered to buy the A’s and been told NO. Manfred is also allowing A’s to waive the relocation fee to move. Just shows MLB doesn’t are about the fans.
@ ARC2 – We already knew how little MLB cares about it’s fans, splitting up broadcasts into as many different streamers/platforms as will pay, and further fragmenting broadcasts:
Regional cable channels (who still has this??),
MLB.tv (only out-of-market), Peacock (Sun AM, sometimes), AppleTV, (Fri PM, sometimes), Fox (national TV, sometimes), ESPN (Sun PM, sometimes).
I mean, seriously — this is a joke. Feels like a cat-and-mouse game trying to keep up with a team. Now, imagine fans 65+ and not technologically-savvy trying to do this.
Forcing people to have Apple TV/paramont to watch a game. i seen this happening for a few years now and had enough of it. Its why baseball is losing its fan base. There is no loyalty or care for the fans its now just billionaires making more profits.
Is this any different from other sports leagues? The regional cable channels are in play for all Big Four leagues but the NFL, and have been since the 80s, and the FOX/ESPN games of the week have been a thing for decades.
The Peacock/Apple contracts are annoying, I agree. It’s pretty limited, but man is it annoying.
The MLB.tv only affects out of market teams, and that’s an addition from the classic broadcasts, so that should be a plus.
Is it different? Honestly, I don’t keep up enough with NHL/NBA to know, but NFL I thought had NFL Game Pass which allows you to watch all games. I could be missing something (does it also allow you to watch Amazon Thurs games, ESPN Mon night games, etc.?) == according to what I’m reading, yes, it does. That would be a major change to include all in-market and out-of-market games for MLB.tv.
I keep hearing about MLB.tv that it’s not a big deal that is affects in-market games, but I don’t get that at all. Most of the fans live in-market, so giving them the ability to watch doesn’t substitute cable channels, which is the point. I am not buying cable only to watch baseball games, especially when they are further fragmenting it by having exclusive streaming-only games (via AppleTV, Peacock, etc.) giving me less value. Until MLB.tv goes in-market AND out-of-market, it’s not much of a deal. And further forces many viewers to possibly violate their terms of service by using a VPN to view in-market games — something I know quite a few do regularly.
the worse part of it is how little MLB cares about the fans.
==========================
What fans? The 788k that showed up last year, or the 2.5M that will show up in LV? You have to accept the fact that the MLB exists and acts to make money. They wouldn’t this unless they expected more revenue.
imagine fans 65+ and not technologically-savvy trying to do this.
========================
I’m not offended by the ageism, but I am north of 65, and it was my generation that spawned the computer age. I’ve been creating consolidation and reporting packages for almost 40 years now.
Further, I watch the game on my desktop. Calling up MLB.com and paying $180 or whatever is not as complicated as it looks.
If you hear for the last 20 years the team is moving and then seeing all the best players traded away for AAA nobodies why would you support the? 2.5 million Vegas fans? Now that is funny. Watch after the first years they lose half their fans. Raiders are new and don’t sell out. The ONLY REASON Fisher is moving the team so he can build his monument to himself with tax payers money.
FWIW, fans have never had the ability to watch every game. Growing up, the NYM were on channel 9 and the NYY on channel 11. But there was nothing close to 162 broadcasts.
@JoeBrady – I grew up on TBS SuperStation and every Braves game was on it with few exceptions (ESPN Sun night exclusive). Many around the US became Braves fans because of this rarity. I remember being able to watch Mets via WWOR and Cubs via WGN from ATL all the time, but definitely not as much as Braves games. Thanks, Ted Turner.
Not saying it has to be like that — I’m ok for change, but when MLB lacks the ability to simplify, like NFL has seemingly done with Game Pass, because they’ve sold off exclusive rights and are held ransom by cable providers in bankruptcy proceedings — it’s not in the viewer’s best interest or the league’s. But, they’re certainly reaping the benefits from more revenue streams.
@Run As a Braves fan from New York I can tell you we only got 1-3 games a week on TBS at least in the 90’s. It wasn’t every game.
You can’t use 20 years of rumors as an excuse. The fans simply do not show up. I’ll give them a pass for this year, based on performance and the fact that they are definitely moving. But they recently won 97 in B2B years, and averaged 1.6M.
The SFG averaged 71 wins from 2017-2019, and averaged slightly more than 3M in attendance. You cannot get around that.
I live in Las Vegas and with a small tv upgrade and I get every Angels, Diamondbacks and Padres games. That’s sure to end.
You keep trying to say 2.5 million will show up in Las Vegas, completely ignoring the fact that if they sell out EVERY SINGLE GAME they can’t draw that many in a stadium that will only hold 30k per game.
1.6 million attended games in Oakland in 2019 while they were playing in the worst stadium in baseball.
In 2020 NO fans attended games.
Prior to the 2021 season Fisher and Kaval told A’s fans that they were not going to try to compete and NOT to come to games. They they nearly doubled ticket prices. The low attendance this season is FISHER’s fault. He WANTED that to happen. He got his wish.
NONE of those fans are going to travel to Las Vegas for games. Zero. Fisher burned that bridge.
MLB exists to make money and moving to Las Vegas means LESS money for the other owners.
#1. The LAs Vegas market has 1/4 the TV households that the Bay Area does. The A’s current $60 million TV deal will be slashed by 2/3.
#2 National TV deals including the streaming ones, are based on the number of TV households. The money for ALL teams will drop when the A’s move from the 6th largest TV market to the 41st largest.
#3 The A’s will be playing for 3 seasons in a ballpark that holds a maximum of 10k per game. They will draw less per game than they are averaging this season.
#4 The State of Nevada and Clark County will be giving up tax revenue for 30 years if the deal goes through. Since no NEW revenue will be generated, just revenue moved from other businesses in Nevada to the A’s, the state and county will LOSE money.
FISHER will make more money because he will simply continue to pocket the revenue sharing he gets from the other owners. No one else will make more revenue.
There is no possibility of drawing 2.5 million fans. The most is 2.43 million and that is if they sell out all 81 games.
They will average somewhere around 20k fans for the first year, about what they did in Oakland, then attendance will start to fall.
Fans are not traveling to Raiders games and they won’t to A’s games. That is a 100% certainty. Fisher alienated A’s fans everywhere and as long as he is the owner, they won’t show up no matter where the games are played.
“That will show up” is doing a TON of work there bud.
Just curious Joe. How can 2.5 million show up when the stadium in Las Vegas will have a 30,000 seat capacity? Your math doesn’t check out.
Yea Las Vegas is in the top 10 for attendance in the NHL so it could be a huge success especially if they build the stadium on the strip.
30,000 seats is on the smaller side tho.
Their NHL team won a championship IMMEDIATELY. the A’s won’t be doing that.
Vegas should have made a payroll floor a contingency of the public funding.
That would have required MLB approval, which they never would have gotten. It would involve negotiations with the union, which would have been too many hoops.
The Las Vegas Athletics of Nevada
As a Vegas resident I will go to some games, but probably only when they play the Dodgers. I feel like the A’s are going to struggle to fill half the stadium on a nightly basis. Except for when big market teams come go play there. The A’s AAA team is already in Vegas and the games i have gone to there are about half full as well.
If A’s AAA team is already in Vegas, this is easy — move A’s AAA team to Oakland and call them the Oakland AAA’s with a minor tweak to uniforms, still playing in the same park (presumably in front of the same fans/attendance). Vegas gets a ML team with an upgraded stadium and regular attendance most likely exceeding 8K/game. Bam! Everyone is happy.
Now, on to peace in the middle east after lunch.
Subsidies are always a bad deal for taxpayers.
I know areas that have been rejuvenated with the help of government money. LV chipped in money for the light show in downtown LV, and helped make it a place where people now visit.
Areas of a town have been rejuvenated, but the metro area as a whole has NEVER increased revenue. It is simply money that was spent in other businesses being spent in the ballpark or surrounding area.
100%. Every time. There are no exceptions.
We already knew that. This isn’t Vegas clamoring for the A’s. It’s the league & other big money people. We love our AAA Aviators and their beautiful stadium. I feel sorry for them.
Finally… I don’t think Oakland A’s fans deserved this “hide and seek” game but this is how it went down Mr. Fisher getting what he wanted: tax payers money funding his stadium…
Me move the Rays to Montreal
Without a brand new stadium to play in (which Montreal has given no indication they are willing to pay for) moving the Rays from the Trop to the mausoleum known as Olympic Stadium would be literally pointless
I’d bet on Charlotte N.C. getting the next team that moves, saying the A’s do Vegas. Next 2 up are Tampa and Cleveland.
If Nashville wasn’t set on an expansion team they would probably be a good bet for the Rays but they want a team to build of their very own
Cleveland isn’t moving. And Memphis will get a team before Charlotte
Cleveland will leave for sure. It’s just a matter of when is all. The attendance is terrible, and it’s not going to get any better, as people are leaving that now small, shrinking town, more and more, every year. It might take 15 plus years, but they gone!
Oh, and It’s a no brainier for me, I’d go to a nicer Charlotte over Memphis any day. We’ll see.
I’ve never heard anything about Cleveland moving. I think they signed a new lease and they been doing some renovations on the ballpark.
Charlotte and Nashville need teams. Rays to Charlotte and expansion to Nashville.
Cleveland leaving would be great.Then they can lose that ridiculous Guardians name. Who came up with that???
Memphis is a crime filled swear. You are joking!
What’s more ridiculous when you really think about it, that name or the name it replaced?
Nashville likely gets it first, and probably the O’s which pains me as an O’s fan.
Rays to Charlotte makes some sense. Their AAA team is already in Durham.
I’m afraid you are stuck with Cleveland baseball – and it’s awesome name – for a long time. While I don’t entirely understand why given the lack of support and a market that can’t really support three teams, ownership is committed to Cleveland.
Charlotte will get an expansion team. No team is relocating there. MLB needs to hurry up with expansion. NC is a huge untapped market.
No they won’t. NC is a way bigger market.
There’s no way Memphis is getting a team.
Does Dombrowski know this means he wouldn’t have prospects to trade away?? Imagine Dombrowski with TB Rays farm — whoa, the carnage. It’d be a bloodbath for a few weeks with that kind of ammunition.
Plugnplay, what indication has there been from ownership that they have any intention to move? While I personally think the market has treated that team badly and would be more successful in another market, I haven’t seen any indication that they will leave. Their stadium lease goes through at least 2036 and could go longer.
In my opinion, neither Charlotte nor Memphis should get an MLB franchise any time soon. Memphis is too small (and already has a major league franchise) and Charlotte has two major league teams with lots of NASCAR in the area. They aren’t big enough to have that kind of competition in the market.
BTW, Nashville shouldn’t have an MLB team for the same reason. Too much competition from existing major league franchises.
rsox – I believe the Rays are still a possible option here. This is a big baseball town.
Kirsten – I live in Nashville and I’m excited about getting MLB here but I couldn’t imagine the Orioles playing anywhere else but Camden – the best park I’ve been to for a game.
A franchise has been tried in Montreal. It was a disaster.
You can blame Oakland and California with their EIR’s that draaaaaag things out. Thus the projects become more costly……….
Or you can blame the owner who purposely ruined the team to facilitate a move to Las Vegas. Or blame the owner for not paying for a stadium for his own team. The EIRs aren’t holding anything up and if they did not exist, the A’s would still be in this situation.
The EIR been done for over 6 months. Fisher changed when he didn’t get the free tax dollars gifted to him.
Its not normal EIR. It is way more costly and time consuming to build on the water in the bay. They could start building a new park at the current location tomorrow, but they dont think the current land is sexy enough. Its all so stupid
Move from a top 3 national media market to the like 46th. 10M+ people within a 2 hr drive most within 1, but instead a town with everything to do, no hope of a local fanbase, and nothing for hundreds of miles but desert outside the city limits in a city smaller than OAK with none of the neighboring population.
It works in Football with only 8 home games and national broadcast deals for all the teams negotiated as a group. Not going to work so well in baseball where media market matters more than any other factor on team earnings and you have to fill 81 home games…
That’d be fine if the A’s large media market weren’t primarily Giants fans. They don’t generate revenue anywhere near any other California squad. This move was inevitable.
The coliseum can finally be leveled.
They signed the TV deal they are on on like 04 before the boom. With the number of households in the greater region the new deal that will be signed when the current one expires should be far more lucrative!
Unfortunately, the boom has ended and the deals that were signed are now underwater, and not being paid. The current and future TV market is rather muddy at the moment. Why would any company pay more than the amount that is currently unprofitable?
OAK has nothing to do with Bally sports and teams in the recent few years have still signed big contracts when they came up to renew… The deal expires after this season or next and would have been big enough to cover all the teams expenses with a like 120M payroll without even getting into gate revenue.
The A’s have a $60 million per season, top 15 in MLB, local TV deal now and that is going to be cut by at least 2/3 if they move to Las Vegas which has 1/4 the TV homes of the bay area.
They signed their 20 year local TV deal in 2012. They are getting about $60 million in 2023.
The A’s are in the 6th largest TV market in the US and it has 4 times the TV households as Las Vegas, the 41st ranked TV market..
Their TV deal in Las Vegas would be much, much smaller.
The A’s deal expires in 2032.
The A’s HAD an agreement to build the stadium in Oakland. The City council had approved it. The EIR’s were DONE. All the lawsuits were over.
THEN at the last minute Fisher decided to ask for $350 million more dollars. The VERY next day he said he had a “binding agreement” to buy 49 acres in LAs Vegas. A week later he had another deal. Now he has a “tentative agreement” in Las Vegas.
The problem here has never been Oakland or California. It’s ALWAYS been Fisher since he became part of the ownership group of the A’s. .
@july82001: Oakland A’s fans, lol! All five of them.
That’s what it boils down to. And every business owner in the country would do the same. If you aren’t getting any customers, you either shut down or move to a place where you will get customers.
IMHO, too many fans think the owner should pay big money for players, for games they won’t attend.
The A’s are technically my local team. I wouldn’t go to the Colosseum to see a game.
Free cash for the rich! How nice! Some cash in politicians’ pockets, too. Taxpayers pay for the stadium. The rich owners come back in a few years to threaten to move again. Why do Americans support such socialism for the rich? Taxpayers pay they own. Packers, many soccer teams, the O’s used to be owned by fans/regions. No ownership, no cash from taxpayers!
Power to da PEEPLES!
Bron-Mario?
Coming from The Bronx as I do, I am more than happy to see the city put a few bucks on the table to keep the Evil Empire on 161st.
There are States and Counties that get things done. Then there’s C A L I F O R N I A.. California has never done anything for a professional sports team. Whether it’s financing, tax breaks to help fund a stadium or arena.
All of the ones listed below were privately financed)
Dodgers- Dodger Stadium
Laker/LA Kings (The Forum there original home)
Clippers -Intuit Arena
Rams SoFi Stadium
SF Giants Oracle Park
Warriors- Chase Center
And look how fast the financing came together in Nevada. If all goes as planned they will begin playing there in 2027.
If it were California it would be more 2035. They would not chip in a dime. Newsome would claim the state is broke.
Why should taxpayers fund ballparks for billionaires? All your babblefest proves is that soaking taxpayers isn’t necessary.
The taxpayers are funding only a small pct of this one.
And California loses teams and the fans lose out through no fault of their own. California can offer incentives like tax breaks but they don’t. They DO ANYTHING is my point. And Nevada will benefit from investing money. California is more concerned about saving an owl in a forest. So they do they don’t do due diligence and don’t properly maintain the forest. And when we have a forest fire Taxpayers homes burn down. That’s how California thinks.The environmentalist win taxpayers lose. And Californian’s pay higher tax’s on EVERYTHING
@Winnie
There are 49 other states, boss.
I’d take rescuing wild animals over rescuing wild billionaires every day.
Cali has the 7th biggest economy on earth. They’re doing something right!
At the expense of someones house burning down?
Yeah they’re pissing off the people who grew up there and are moving out.
‘Houses burn down’ because people insist on building/buying them near huge forests, which have been having seasonal wildfires for many millennia.
I haven’t dug too deeply into it, but are the NV taxpayers actually paying or are the tourists that go there like they are for Allegiant?
Houses burn down because of forest practices coming from Sacramento and, mostly, DC on the dictates of urban voters who haven’t a clue about rural living. That said, there’s a helluva lot more important and vital things that taxpayer money should be spent on than big league sports venues.
@wleach Re: your rant on C A L I F O R N I A
Those privately financed sports venues have been largely successful. CA taxpayers shouldn’t be subsidizing big league sports teams; there’s already enough problems to deal with.
Also, forests and wildfires and owls are under Washington’s jurisdiction, so blame DC on that one, not CA.
You’re right. It was Obama who signed that act. regarding the rare species they protect and neglecting homeowners. But California is a much to blame for the sad state of the forest in CA. They eliminated several mills.
Wat- As far Raiders go some o that money comes from a hotel bed tax.
It’s better than just wasting countless billions on homeless nonprofits.
Winslow- i left.
I pay more in taxes in kentucky than i did in california but go off with your misinformation lol
the NV taxpayers actually paying or are the tourists that go there like they are for Allegiant?
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The article says it is being paid for by tax revenues generated by the stadium. It’s been a while since I checked, but the taxes on tickets and parking by Yankee Stadium are pretty substantial.
What’s that? Having double the cost of living as everyone else?
I have lived by huge forests my whole life and never remotely had a chance of my home burning down.
“The taxpayers are funding only a small pct of this one”
That’s great news!
How about paying my share!
Fourth biggest economy, not seventh. Please don’t sell the Golden State’s economy short.
Why shouldn’t they? This AOC understanding of economics would be laughable if it wasn’t so frightening.
Knock yourself out. But I doubt you would do anything to save an animal.
itsKirsten-it’s not imisnformation. And it’s in taxes. It auto registration. We pay thru the nose for natural gas this past winter. And now they want to base your electric billon. your income. Don’t come in here and tell a Californian we don’t pay more.
Half the state burns down every year because PGE is a “public/private partnership” that is essentially a legal monopoly that takes taxpayer funds and doesn’t reinvest them in critical infrastructure, which then predictably fails and causes massive forest fires. A huge percentage of the major fires in CA (including the paradise fire) were DIRECTLY linked to PGE which only further proves the point that the public shouldn’t be finding enterprises that privatize their profits on our backs.
Also Schwarzenegger is the guy who cut the forest services and all other CA state public services during his tenure. It has nothing to do with “saving an owl”. That clown canned a bunch of state forest service workers that were keeping the state parks in order.
He hasn’t been governor in a very long time. Odd to be blaming your problems on him still.
I’ve lived in many states, California is not the most expensive tax wise. You love moving goalposts don’t you.
Kirsten – which state has higher taxes when all taxes are considered?
Things haven’t gotten better. No governor since has hired them back. This wasn’t a defense of any CA gov as far as I’m concerned they’ve been trash for decades. Nice of you to leap to conclusions on extremely limited information though.
Could be true, Mets6986.
Most of the California wildfires occur in similar locations every year. It’s been happening since cavemen built cave condos out there. It’s nature thinning itself out.
Some areas are uninsurable because the fires are so frequent, and fire fighters can’t get to them in a timely and efficient manner… like East of San Diego, in the hilly, wooded areas.
They’re still blaming Bush, the other Bush and Reagan.
Yes.
Whenever I cross the border in Yuma AZ, everyone is filling up in Yuma. Not two miles away in Winterhaven, CA.
The answer is California.
President’s leave legacies. So-and-so’s policies from years ago, or a Supreme Court decision from 1954 or whenever can have lasting impacts that affect us today.
Part of California’s wildfire problem stems from the nearly century long federal policy of containing every wildfire, even though that stopped years ago. Nature takes time to rebuild, and that’s why we need to be forward thinking in environmental policy.
Like, Las Vegas and Lake Mead. It will not be the fault of a current president, administration, agency or governor if Vegas can no longer draw water from Lake Mead. It will be a nearly 100 year old compact that encouraged too much water use and too much growth in the short-term, knowing that the inevitable hard choices would fall on some future politician.
There’s been owl protection since the 70s (and probably before);can’t blame Obama for that.
Why are people complaining about wild fires in California when most of the land is owned by the Feds not the state. 2nd environmental protection is not causing the fires but poor forest land management because of no funds to manage them. Some people need to stop posting what a talking head at a political site tells them to push blame on a state.
5th largest economy. Has been since 2018. cbsnews.com/news/california-now-has-the-worlds-5th…
NV taxpayers.
Endangered Species Act of 1973. Not Obama.
The money for Allegiant comes from a TOT or transient occupancy tax that is paid by anyone that visits Las Vegas, not people that go to Raider’s games. That makes it far worse.
The taxes on tickets and parking at Yankee Stadium are the same as the taxes on a Broadway play or parking elsewhere in town. Same 8.875% rate.
The sales tax rate at a ballpark in Las Vegas will not be different than the tax rate anywhere else in Las Vegas and every dollar spent at the ballpark is money not spent elsewhere in Las Vegas.
I thought it was still the 5th largest so I was selling it short.
California is down at 12th, between Nebraska and Rhode Island
wallethub.com/edu/states-with-highest-lowest-tax-b…
Explain why property tax owners should gift their hard earned money to a billionaire sports owner?
They’re not. Also, what’s a property tax owner?
Ask a A’s fan
They are costing the tax payers. Just like the Raider stadium deal.. The hotel tax which went to schools is now going to pay for the raider’s stadium. Guess who will be paying for schools now/ yes the home owners. You must not own a home if you don’t see all the added bonds and taxes on your bill.
I owned a home in SoCal. Loved it. But the prop taxes were nauseating. Seeing the ways pols blew them was sickening.
A homeowner, usually… but not exclusively.
Well Well if isn’t the owner of the stupidest rent in MLBTR’s history
What’s a tax owner Arc?
Casinos will be paying most of those taxes. Nevada doesn’t have a state income tax. And out properly taxes, unlike California, are reasonable.
Property tax rates are higher in places like Texas.
California property tax rates are among the lowest in the country.
The property is just more valuable than many other places.
0000 – California property taxes are not among the lowest in the country but they are not the highest. When you factor in Mello Roos, which is ultimately an additional property tax, then they become among the highest. Then looking at all of the other taxes and fees California’s residents pay, it becomes one of the highest taxed states in the country…and they still have budget issues.
I now live in Tennessee which is a stark contrast to California. I own a 10 acre horse farm with a custom home on it and my property taxes are about 3k a year. I pay 50 bucks a year for car tags with no smog check requirements (biggest monney grab scam ever). The state is run so well our governor is cancelling sales tax on groceries for four months because we have enough money in the bank as a state.
I know…”but the weather…”.
There are much more “junk fees” in States like Texas.
Tennessee is a very poor state subsidized by Federal Tax revenues.
Maybe, the Feds should cut their tax subsidies to States like Tennessee and make them pay their own way.
0000 – All states get federal tax dollars, not just Tennessee. And btw, Tennessee is not a very poor state, it’s not in the top ten of poor states. And Williamson County just south of Nashville is one of the wealthiest counties in the US.
But don’t take my word for it. Ask the 83,000 (net) people who moved to Tennessee in 2022. That’s net of people moving out so the actual number of people moving in was even bigger.
oh, and name some of those “junk fees” (whatever those are) you’re talking about.
Then the actual taxes are higher, Sport.
NY actually has a higher rate AND property values. And since the schools, roads and infrastructure aren’t good… that’s why I no longer live there either.
The weather IS great. That’s why they refer to the cost of living as the sun tax. Property taxes in SoCal are only the beginning of the hits you take.
I totally agree, sport.
Property taxes in California are locked in when you purchase the house and never go up. Bought in 198os. Property taxes are still the same today.
When my territory from February to August was the South, I bought a house in Travis County in the Texas Hill Country. My property tax rate when we sold was more than 4 times what it is in California. It’s gone up since then too.
Property tax rates in Nevada are higher than in California.
tax-rates.org/taxtables/property-tax-by-state
In California, because of Proposition 13, the assessed value and property tax rate on your home does not change from the time you purchase a property until you transfer it to someone else. Your property tax doesn’t change as long as you own the home. I pay the same amount today as when I bought my home in the 1980’s.
In Tennessee your property assessment is done annually, and your property tax rate can go up every year. In 10 years, I will pay the exact same amount I did 35 years ago. In 10 years, yours will have gone up. In 20 years, I will STILL be paying the same amount and yours will have gone up even more.
California population dropped for 2 years exactly in relation to the number of immigrants that were not being allowed in and the number of deaths from COVID. California will have more than 83k H1-B immigrants alone in 2023-2024.
Why would you want to live somewhere that doesn’t keep high polluting cars off the road? Not something to brag about.
Less than 3% of homeowners in California are in a Mello Roos CFD so that doesn’t affect many people in 2023. A Mello Roos is almost exclusively used when a new subdivision is being built to cover the costs of infrastructure in that subdivision and when they do create one its short lived. Typically, 20 years. Buy an existing home and you don’t have to worry about that.
Tennessee is a net taker of federal tax dollars. California is the largest payer overall and 4th largest per capita. We literally fund your state. Don’t get me wrong, Tennessee is not as bad as Kentucky, but it’s still in the bottom 10 per capita funds contributed to the federal government.
Tennessee has 12,371 welfare recipients per 100k residents. California 10,383 per 100k residents. Lots more of your neighbors are on SNAP than mine.
Adjusted Per Capita Personal Income Nashville-Davidson–Murfreesboro–Franklin, TN MSA – $60,680
Adjusted Per Capita Personal Income San Diego-Chula Vista-Carlsbad, CA MSA – $63,726
California has the 2 cities with the highest income on the list.
Not finding anywhere in Tennesee on this list of richest towns either.
veranda.com/luxury-lifestyle/g1563/richest-towns-i…
Surfer – “Property taxes in California are locked in when you purchase the house and never go up.”
That’s false. The Jarvis Initiative, aka Prop 13, slowed the increase of property taxes but it didn’t freeze them. The California market has always been so volitile that your home value could double in a year. So it protected home owners from having their taxes double based on annual property value assessments. But it allows for incremental annual increases.
surfer – Your information is generally accurate , but presented in a disingenuous manner. In Orange County, where I was born and raised, property taxes are approximately 1.1% of your purchase price. That amount is protected by Prop 13 against outrageous increases based on the volatile California real estate market. It doesn’t allow for dollar for dollar assessment increases based on annual fluctuations in housing prices, but it allows for a steady incremental increase. So you will not pay the same property tax over your 35 year ownership, it will increase steadily, albeit relatively slowly, thanks to Howard Jarvis. BTW, the Democrat government in California has been trying to overturn Prop 13 for years.
In Tennessee, I do not get a dollar for dollar increase in property taxes based on assessment either. For example, I bought my horse farm about 7 years ago and the tax was about $2700 a year. 7 years later, my property has about doubled in value and my property tax is now about $3000 per year. That’s about the same percentage increase I experienced owning properties in California. Again, your presentation is disingenuous.
“Why would you want to live somewhere that doesn’t keep high polluting cars off the road? Not something to brag about.”
Also a disingenuous statement. Smog checks are a huge money grab scam that Tennessee used to be apart of by county and it stopped. It was seen as just another tax. Today’s cars are way more efficient and clean than they were when smog checks were implemented decades ago. And California allows for an exemption based on the age of your car so it allows for the higher polluting cars to remain on the road…Smoke and mirrors to make people like you feel good.
Mello Roos is a 20 year bond as you say, but property taxes and income taxes should already pay for infrastructure…yet another money grab scam.
Finally, you can’t argue that Californians like me aren’t moving out of state by the tens of thousands annually. The population may increase, but not by hard working middle class families that actually help the economy. If California continues down this path, it will consist of uber wealthy and low income migrant workers or welfare recipients not effected by the totality of the cost of living. That’s the exact result that California policies allegedly try to correct.
PS: “Williamson County is ranked as the wealthiest county in Tennessee, as well as among the wealthiest counties in the country. In 2006 it was the 17th-wealthiest county in the country according to the U.S. Census Bureau, but the Council for Community and Economic Research ranked Williamson County as America’s wealthiest county (1st) when the local cost of living was factored into the equation with median household income.[22] In 2010, Williamson County is listed 17th on the Forbes list of the 25 wealthiest counties in America.” – Wikipedia.
Those numbers are a bit dated, but they are still generally accurate today. Wikipedia was the easiest to bring up but the data is everywhere.
I paid the same exact amount in 2022 that I did in 1987 and my home has increased 1417% since I bought it. Your home’s tax value is not reassessed until the property is transferred. Does not matter how much it goes up in value.
@Winslow: Baffling that you’re saying this like it is a bad thing. For taxpayers, it’s a great thing. Why should the public fund private businesses owned by some of the richest people in the planet? Why are you acting like corporate welfare and socialism for the rich are good things?
Bingo!
@rct
Well because if they would help with tax breaks in building something that in turn will create jobs.
Now the a’s are leaving Oakland. Now the people that work at the A’s ballpark will have NO jobs.
@wnslow so you are saying that home owners should create jobs for people by gifting billionaires money. Doesn’t create jobs because those same customers would be doing something else besides going to a game.
California would be better off dividing $300 million to the soon-to-be-jobless A’s ballpark employees.
that’s the lunacy of this jobs being created with stadium giveaways. the math is obvious whose getting the bulk of the money, and that the ballpark employees see very little trickle down to them.
Arc-Then what do 81 home games do that empty stadium 365 days doesn’t do?
“Well because if they would help with tax breaks in building something that in turn will create jobs.”
So you’re saying the public should fund a private business because it would create jobs? Why doesn’t the private business invest its own money to create jobs instead of relying on the public? Should the public also build McDonald’s and Walmarts to create jobs for those private businesses?
John Fisher is a billionaire who could also sell a chunk of the A’s to finance his own stadium. If he can’t afford to build a new stadium, he should sell the team to someone who can.
@deepseamonster32
This is a variant of trickle down economics, it’s a 2 story out house and something is definitely trickling down.
Why? Again, you have an AOC understanding of economics. A professional baseball team brings in money? So what’s the balance?
How much should a city invest in a team to make it a win win proposition?
You have so little understanding of economics, that you think it’s zero.
Nevada is always giving tax breaks to businesses. Now we are giving tax breaks to Hollywood. As someone who lives in this great state, I’m happy they do.
You do know that AOC graduated cum laude from Boston University in 2011 with a Bachelor of Arts degree in both international relations and economics right?
So comparing my level of understanding of economics to someone that has a degree in economics, cum laude no less, is quite flattering.
So the more appropriate question is what are your bono fides in economics? Feel free to deflect, insult, obfuscate, blame others, play the victim, et al.
They do it all the time rot. The Right tries to make the pie bigger, the Left is consumed with how the pie is split.
The Right way is the right way. But far too many people are using this brainwashed mantra taught by socialists that’s laughably absurd.
@halo No longer America is a free market. The capitalist made it into the have and the have nots. Every law passed benefits big corporations while the small businesses in America go under. No longer everyone prosper but only the top of the money chain. capitalism need socialism for everyone to prosper. That is why there never been a capitalist only country to ever prosper. Just like in baseball the teams with the biggest TV contracts are prospering now.
“The capitalist made it into the have and the have nots.”
*******
I make money off of the backs and sweaty brows of lots of people. And I shall continue to do so.
Arc…so much to say in response but I will leave it alone and just say you are wrong. Socialism has never worked and never will. You should study it or simply look at our own economy right now under this administration`s incremental progress towards socialism. Data is everywhere including your own bank account.
What about Denmark? its working there. Capitalism can ONLY work if it is with socialism. They need each other to work. Data shows in bank accounts that capitalism doesn’t work.
All I can say is people choose the life they have. The beauty of our great nation is anyone can succeed and prosper through good choices and hard work. The problem is when people make bad choices and then expect the government (tax payers) to bail them out.
unfortunately that is not true anymore. It used to be that you could succeed and prosper through hard work. Now the elites own everything and pay very little. I worked 2 jobs my whole life to get where i am. I just don’t see the opportunities that once were there. Almost impossible for a young couple to buy a home unless they have help. The government bails out bad choices by businesses not citizens. I guess we are in a agreement that Fisher should get 0 help from any city or state in his pursuit of a stadium., Tax payers shouldn’t help out billionaires.
If you have not learned yet trickle down economy has never worked. Its a myth by billionaires to redistribute tax money into their pockets. When one part of a economy leaves another will fill it spot. which creates more jobs. Instead of blaming the city or state blame the owner who created the situation. There is 2 ownership groups that offered to buy the team and keep them in Oakland but was told NO.
200 people work for the A’s in Oakland. That is about how many jobs they will create in Las Vegas. 200.
The most in MLB is 320 full and part time employees associated with the ballpark. We are not talking about tremendously high paying jobs either. That ticket taker and usher and the folks working the beer stand are not making top dollars.
How can you possibly consider that a bad thing for California? Billionaires don’t need welfare.
California has never done anything for a professional sports team?
Why do they need to give tax breaks? They are the 5th biggest economy in the world and have a massive population. Why do states and cities need to help businesses? The way you speak about California makes me think you belong to the party that supports small govt and businesses should be free of overreach. or do you think the govt should only help when it comes to teams and businesses you like?
California gets it done if they have
Dodgers, Angels, Padres and Giants
Lakers, Warriors and Kings
49ers, Rams and Chargers
California has as many baseball teams as the states of New York and Texas combined
This is not a red versus blue thing, this is a cheap owner, part of a monopoly, who searched for the biggest corporate-welfare handout
Your logic is breathtakingly stupid. Every study has shown that taxpayers footing the bill for professional (and college) sports stadiums ends up a loss for taxpayers. Go read Field of Schemes by Neil deMause. He has a website, too. Google it.
You just proved my and other points that privately financed stadiums are a much better deal for all involved and are very successful.
Petco Park San Diego was a jointly financed private/public partnership that included redevelopment of part of a downtown area.
Petco Park was a unique deal and won’t work everywhere.
It cost something like 425M for the stadium and then there was
some depressed areas around the ballpark that was redeveloped with hotels, condos etc..
MLB was trying to do a “Petco Park” type deal in Oakland with a lot of added on costs that could have run into a whole lot of extra $$$$
that was the big difference.
It would have put Oakland and Alameda County and the State on the hook for, potentially, big bucks including infrastructure improvements.
The A’s are looking at a less lucrative deal in Las Vegas
in a much smaller TV market and less potential revenue streams
when compared to California and the SF Bay Area.
Socialism for the wealthy. LOL! If you think socialism is free money than you don’t know what socialism is. This, my friend, is capitalism.
It is capitalism, and not everyone realizes it. A team (and any company) can move anywhere they want. Cities are bidding against each other to get their business.
It’s at least a little amusing to me that fans are talking about Charlotte, Nashville, and other places as deserving teams. Why do they think that is? It is because it is generally good business to get teams.
Joe, It is capitalism for the owner to seek a handout, it is corporate welfare for the government to capitulate. Comparing teams part of a monopoly to free market businesses is sketchy at best.
No, it’s a business deal. That’s how business is done. Each side pays and each side gets a benefit.
These guys are clueless. If you want a business to move here, that will make money for the state, giving incentives is in the states’ best interest.
Except the only ones that get a benefit from a new stadium being built is the owners of the team that it is being built for.
If it was capitalism then the taxpayers would not be footing the bill, the business would. This is corporate socialism.
It’s a loan. They will have to pay it back.
Heard that excuse before. Raiders never payed back Oakland. They had to go to court and sue. Even the warriors did that to Oakland and they had to bring in a arbitration hearing to get payed back for renovations.
Why exactly is Las Vegas of all cities giving away tax dollars in order to attract a team?
I don’t understand the sentiment that Vegas is a great sports town. Beyond the betting world they are going to find out very quickly how small of a market it is. It’s easy to fill a Football stadium 8 games a year with a team that comes with a devoted fan base already in tow. It’s easy to semi-fill a 19k (or less) Hockey arena for 41 games. It’s going to be hard to fill a 35k+ Baseball stadium 81 days per season, especially with an owner who cares more about keeping his cut of revenue sharing than putting a quality product on the field
Vegas is attractive because people go there from all over. Half the ticket buyers will be visiting fans. All money is green.
A’s fans can whine all they want but they got the team from another city to begin with (which itself got it from another city before that). Team will make more money in Vegas and that’s the whole point.
Do you seriously think anyone goes to Vegas for sports? If you do I have some ocean front property in Arizona Im sure you would be interested in.
NFL is exclusive league negotiated TV rights as well. Also plays in the Winter when the weather isnt as awful. When its 120 outside can they really AC a stadium full of people enough to make it reasonable?
They’ll play exclusively at night, or nearly so. The AAA Vegas team (the A’s affiliate, conveniently) has always been one of the best drawers in the minors.
The Aviators are not top 10 in attendance in AAA. The El Paso team is outdrawing them this season.
Not really- People will come to Vegas to gamble and see their MLB team, The demand will be greater than the supply in ticket inventory.
Um, no they won’t, Winslow.
How so?
The same fans that already don’t turn out for their teams?
In reality, Red Sox/Yankees/Cubs/and maybe Dodger fans looking to make a weekend out of it every other year will draw as they do everywhere. Beyond that i wouldn’t expect too many sell outs
Except nobody wants to see the A’s.
Las Vegas is a reasonably transient city – they’re going to have to make a model work that’s very different to basically every other team in the league. The core of every other teams ticket sales is repeat fans – Vegas will be leaning quite heavily on tourists to fill out 81 home games (minimum) a year.
In 3-5 years time, there’s a good chance the City could be learning about what everyone else knows – John Fisher’s lack of commitment to winning. If they aren’t winning, tourists aren’t going to be compelled to see them not winning.
How so?
How are you going to get any sort of season ticket base from transient visiting gamblers? People don’t schlepp to LV to watch baseball. They’d do it closer to home.
I’d see the Socal teams going up there. The Sox and Yanks sold out in San Diego when I lived there (in the old 60,000 seat Murph). But I agree, beyond that, nah.
What do you think the only people in Vegas are just visitors??? You haven’t driven around outside the Strip I take it.
Yeah they will, some anyway including me. Not sure about the supply/demand comment however….no way they sell out every game.
Tourists don’t go to Raiders games. Less will go to A’s games. That model won’t work.
Tourists, people not from the area, aren’t going to care if the home team is good. They will be there to watch the visiting team/their home team. Always cool to see your team playing an away game.
!Season tickets will still go to the big businesses in the area. If you don’t think the casinos will be comping their big spenders with tickets, you aren’t thinking straight.
In reality, Red Sox/Yankees/Cubs/and maybe Dodger fans looking to make a weekend out of it every other year
================================
That’s exactly my figuring. I’ll go every year, or every other year, and include a Red Sox game in my itinerary. And there will be millions just like me doing the same. I like LV anyway, but that supplies more motivation, and maybe an extra day.
Or instead of flying in on Tuesday, I’ll fly in on a Monday, catch a game, and revert to my sordid behavior on Tuesday.
IMHO, there will be some real benefits.
Tourists don’t go to Raiders games.
=======================
I will. I’m a Raiders fan from The Bronx, so that works out fine. And I’ll catch RS games out there as well. Depending on the hotel, I can stay for 4 days in LV for the cost of one night in Boston.
People DON’T come to Las Vegas to see the Raiders. Nearly all the tickets sold are to people that live in the city. They have the lowest corporate sponsorship level of any NFL team. Fans won’t come to see the A’s.
People come to Las Vegas to party and gamble.
They. Can’t. Sell. Out. Raiders. Games.
They don’t do that for Raiders games. They certainly won’t for A’s games.
The Raiders have the lowest corporate sponsorship in the NFL. What makes you think the A’s will be different?
Casino’s will NOT be comping tickets to games. They don’t for Raiders games now.
Casinos want you to spend or lose your money in THEIR casino. They don’t comp anything that is outside those doors. If you think they will give away any tickets you are deluding yourself and have literally no understanding of business.
Tourists don’t go to Raiders games and you obviously haven’t either. They have been there 3 seasons already.
The RAiders are drawing 90% of their fans from the LAs VEgas greater area. Guess what? That is almost exactly the ratio for every other team in the NFL.
Tourists won’t travel in large enough numbers to fill ONE A’s game, let alone sell out a season.
BTW, you have still not responded to the fact that they CANNOT draw 2.5 million in a stadium that has a max capacity of 30k per game.
People are paying $10K a night to see the Super Bowl in Vegas.
Of course it’s going to be different.
They built an auditorium for Celine Dion. She loved it. She didn’t have to tour, the people came to her.
It’s a unique place. A’s fans will remain A’s fans. Just like I have remained an Angel fan.
All those periods.
Are you on your menses?
A once a year event, not an 81 event a year season.
Casinos are precluded by Nevada law from buying or comping tickets for any activity they accept betting on. They accept betting on baseball.
They can’t comp tickets for Raiders games. They accept betting on NFL football.
Sounds like the Stadium is only going to hold 30k, that seams small. You’d think they’d go to 40k at least. I know they probably won’t Average near 30k per season, but in playoff years, you’d like to think they’d like the extra seating.
You can bet a study was done. My educated guess is two things came out of that study.
#1 for each seat above 30k the price of both building an indoor stadium and the costs of AC and maintenance skyrockets.
#2 the team is not expected to ever draw more than that.
Attendance isn’t where they make their $$$. It’s TV revenue from the Networks.
The first few years they will draw good numbers. By then they should have a competitive team.
Again, Las Vegas is transient – that doesn’t lend itself to being a strong TV draw.
Besides that, looking into the future, TV contracts are going to be a far different proposition. Streaming is already upon us (and MLB is miles behind because of the crippling restrictions from each teams individual TV contract). If you’re an out of towner, who has their own team to support, you’re not going to want to watch Las Vegas on TV because you travelled there 6 months prior. If you’re on holiday there, switching them on in your hotel room isn’t going to be a priority.
On top of that, saying “by then they should have a competitive team” is putting a lot of faith into an Ownership that hasn’t rewarded any faith previously.
I can understand if you’re hoping things work out, but hope doesn’t fill seats or win games.
Baseball is different because each of the 30 teams have their own TV deals. Where as the NFL has several mega deals with several networks and they all get the same amount.. I be willing to bet they can have an empty stadium and wouldn’t care. the NFL prints $$.
If they move to Las Vegas, the A’s will be moving from the 6th largest TV market to the 40th largest. 1/4 the TV homes. Their TV money will drop precipitously. $35-40 million drop from the $60 million they are being paid now.
They will be moving from an area that regularly drew 40k plus fans to weekend games, to a stadium with a capacity of 30k.
The Raiders can’t sell out there home games and they only have 9 to sell. 90% of Raiders tickets are sold to individuals living in Nevada, so not much tourism help there. Considering the Raiders last two homes were the Bay Area and Los Angeles, that is a death knell in the idea of people travelling to see games in Las Vegas. That is NOT why they go to Vegas. .
Phoenix is a much larger market and they could not sell out games when they were winning. The A’s are not winning for a very long time. One thing the team owners found out in Phoenix is that desert dwellers don’t leave the house when its 110 out in the summer. On weeknights the BOB in Phoenix as it was called when they were winning was half empty.
Last, but not least, the A’s will play in a 10k seat minor league stadium for at least 3 seasons. They will spend 10’s of millions to upgrade that park to be MLB capable. Money that will be lost completely to them. They will also not sell out every game there. See above and compound for being outdoors, not a roofed stadium.
Yeah, its been what? Almost 3 years since they were in the playoffs? With a draught like that, any team should be demanding new ownership! @Cam, have you just started following the sport? The A’s have been one of the more regular teams in the playoffs this century.
TV money, even streaming money, is based on eyeballs on the screen. Las Vegas is the 41st largest market in the US. The Bay area is the 6th largest with nearly 4 times as many eyeballs on those TVs and other screens.
Vegas is a short drive from SoCal for a football game. That’s a one day event, home by 10pm. Going to baseball games, day after day, month after month? With the Dodgers, Angels and Pads a lot closer? Nah.
That’s the thing though. it is a short drive. SoCal residents will make that short drive to Vegas to see their teams, get high or hammered and gamble for a weekend. They might only go to one game, but Vegas is a draw outside of baseball. The game is a bonus.
Drive from Phoenix is only an hour longer (or less depending on where in town you are) D-Back fans aren’t out of the equation either.
You realize you’ve listed three NL teams right, and that the A’s are in the AL.
Thats a maximum of 6 games a year from the NL teams as they are all in the same division. It doesn’t mean anything.
Apparently its not so easy since the Raiders can’t do it. They can’t sell out every game. Considering their last 2 homes were in Oakland and LA, that shoots down the idea that tourists will come for the game.
The A’s proposed stadium is 30k capacity. They won’t sell out every game even in the first few years. In 2019 the A’s averaged 20k in a ballpark that was the worst in baseball. That is likely what they will average in Las Vegas in a brand new stadium.
But if they can charge twice as much for tickets and sell lots of corporate suite seats and have better sponsors, it could still be more lucrative even if attendance was around the same. Plus, I think it will be higher – at the beginning.
At the beginning it will be less than half of what it was in 2019. It has to be because the minor league ballpark they will spend their 1st 3 seasons in Las Vegas in has a capacity of 10k.
@out in LF
Union contract has to be met. Facility upgrades will be required. Toronto had to jump thru all sorts of hoops to play in Buffalo during covid, and that was when there were no fans allowed. I do not see them playing in a minor league park for 3 years. Sharing a ML facility, seems much more realistic.
The soonest they can play in a new stadium in Oakland is in 2027. The Coliseum has said they are out after 2024. They will have to play in the Las Vegas Ballpark that is the home of the Aviators for a minimum of 2 years and that is if everything goes perfect. It never does in major construction. A realistic time frame is 2028. That would fit with how long it has taken to build every other enclosed ballpark.
Facilities upgrades WILL be required. About $10 million in permanent improvements and then a huge chunk for portable lighting and broadcast improvements that will not be permanent. All that will have to be paid by Fisher.
There IS no MLB facility in Las Vegas. No other team is close. They have to leave Oakland after 2024.
I can’t be sure, but I think some elements of the movie “Casino” are definitely in play here.
Every City does it outside of CA.
Someone tell Halo that sports teams in Nevada do not draw tourists. The Knights don’t and the Raiders don’t
Why is a state that thrives on tourism trying to attract a tourist attraction?
Gosh…..let me think.
Hey A’s please go to Vegas immediately, you’re nothing to me anymore, 30 plus years of being a fan out the window
Dude, I feel ya. Sad day for A’s fans.
For those who doubted the process, know that money will be spent to build the stadium and made from a winning team. The A’s have found their last home for a while. I go to Vegas a few times a year and given the opportunity, I’ll drop down some cash to check out a game there. Life goes on as does the business of baseball, so relax and root for your team and know this is the best scenario that could’ve happened…
Its not even close to the best scenario. Best scenario is that Fisher pays for a new stadium in the bay area. Keep 2nd team in 6th largest market in the US, Its best for the fans and for MLB owners. No one except Fisher makes out in this case.
And won’t they still collect revenue sharing due to market size? Maybe they’ll get more competitive balance draft picks that their GM and scouting screws up
Nothing will change for the A;s in terms of revenue sharing by moving. They will still get it. In fact, all they have to do is agree to a new stadium deal and they are guaranteed revenue sharing money. Doesn’t matter where.
That will be pretty much true of any expansion team, as well. The biggest markets are taken. Small markets are what they have left to choose from. If a new city gets a team, it will be at a disadvantage from day one!
The Bay area is the 6th largest market.
Portland has nearly double the TV households that Las Vegas has. So does Charlotte. Raleigh-Durham is only 100k behind those cities. Nashville has 300k more than Las Vegas.
Portland ranks 21st and is a bigger market than where 6 other teams are located today. Charlotte is 22nd.
Those cities will not be at a disadvantage. Las Vegas will.
Oakland and the A’s organization have danced around this new stadium issue for years and to what end? The best scenario is most times not the best scenario. The ship has left and is heading to the desert. Money awaits for all the same players involved, nothing new. Ownership will have to produce or yes, the product won’t sell in a city that has many alternatives as to where and how to spend your money…
Philadelphia Athletics >>>>Kansas City Athletics>>>>Oakland Athletics>>>>>Las Vegas Athletics……Philadelphia has an awesome sports fan base, probably should not have left, KC has developed into an strong sports town, probably shouldn’t have left.
Philadelphia had 2 teams, so it was either the Phillies or A’s. Obviously Kansas City Phillies would have been nonsensical!! So the A’s had to go
They should put slot machines in the stadium. That will help draw some additional Vegas ‘fans’ for sure!
It’s quite incredible how team owners outright fleece elected officials into parting with millions of dollars like this.
John Fisher is an absolute genius. Runs the A’s on a budget tighter than a soup kitchen, gets paid millions in revenue sharing dollars as a reward for not spending, refuses to provide half decent facilities for both fans and players, sticks it to Oakland by moving to a city where he gets the taxpayer to pay for his upgrades, alongside millions in tax exemptions..then he’ll sit back and watch his “investment” balloon in value.
Don’t get to be a Billionaire by being stupid. He’s playing by the rules that were set up beforehand.
Absolutely. He’s a genius. He’s profited significantly from exploiting these things.
He got his company from mommy/daddy, he didn’t F it up, sure. Genius? Based on what. He hasn’t created anything just watch money he’ll probably never spend grow.
John Fisher totally f’d up his mama and papas company. His shares of GAP stock has lost a billion dollars in value in 2 years going from $37 to $7 each and are now worth only $346 million. GAP company profits are in the dumper. Most companies in the US are making record profits and his companies are losing it.
He didn’t make any of the money himself, he inherited it all. His net worth is dwindling day by day. The only two assets he has that he can leverage are the A’s and the Earthquakes.
I wouldn’t say fleeced. The officials get campaign contributions, favoritism for their preferred (and possibly part owned) business entities, and board positions when they retire. Partisan, idiot voters will do nothing because they are sheep and independents/third parties are “throwing away your vote”.
Lack of spending has never been a criteria for receiving revenue sharing. Stop making up things!
Free money…..wheelbarrows full of it, along with free land. For a team ownership that cares not a whit about performance on the field. OK
In a few years when the new stadium and new team fever wears off, they will be in the same small market situation that plagues more than half of baseball including them now.
That is, unless things change in the next CBA to address the revenue disparity.
The team sucks sour buttermilk.
That has nothing to do with any market.
“Sour buttermilk” that’s great, I have to remember that.
You’re forgetting that casinos will purchase sponsorship and season luxury box suites and comp tickets for their VIP patrons. A 30K-capacity stadium with a retractable roof can host many other events besides baseball. Fisher has been handed a golden goose and I don’t think he’s dumb enought to slay it.
Washington benefits a lot from this, proximity to the central government and “comped” luxury boxes.
I wonder how many high rollers are legitimately interested in attending baseball games.
Have you ever been to Las Vegas? Have you ever been comped anything that was off property?
Casino’s make their money by taking as much as possible of yours and they are not going to be buying tickets to send you and your money off property.
Read the proposal. Fisher will be transferring the stadium to a stadium authority for tax purposes and paying rent there. He will not be profiting from those other events.
Fisher killed the Goose that lays the golden eggs that his parent left to him. His GAP stock has gone from $1.65 billion in value to $346 million in value in 2 years. While other corporations are making record profits, GAP companies losing money.
Yes, he is definitely dumb enough.
Not on my own account but yes. Plane tickets from LA, hotel suite, Raiders game, UFC, sky-diving excursion, etc. They’ll comp anything if you ball hard enough at their tables.
They will on your account, almost definitely. A lot of people think in terms of sky boxes and the like. But I’d bet real money, and no small amount, that almost every casino will buy many, many season ticket plans.
If YBC comes in for a minimum of, say a 5-day stay, he might get two $45 tickets to one game (that the IP probably got a discount on). If Joey has a frequent player card, he might get to use his points for cheap tickets.
These operations are machines. They have a number on every single person passing thru the doors. The Japanese big spender will get seats behind HP for an Ohtani game, but the rest of us will still get something from them.
I’m not a table high-roller so I get a pittance for my poker table play. My LA friend is one. Him and wife are actually on a cruise ship now – you guessed it – comped by a casino.
I ball hard enough. A typical weekend in Las Vegas for me is a $25k+ investment. I do that 4-5 times a year. The last time I was there during football season I was up $9k on my first day and could not get Raider’s tickets comped. Of the 128 “executive suites” at Allegiant Stadium, none are owned by casinos. The agreement with the state does not allow it. Even Boyd Gaming does not have one.
If you spend big the casinos will pay to bring you to them, but they will not pay to send you AWAY.
They can’t buy them for the Raiders. It’s literally against the agreement with the state to build the stadium. You already lost your bet. Stay away from Las Vegas. They will take even more of your money.
On a cruise ship OWNED by the casino.
Angry much? I’m quite familiar with how player ratings work and how comp points are earned as I once dated a casino host at Wynn properties. Casinos are more concerned with player time spent and average bets at the tables over player win/loss. Law of averages say you will give back whatever you’re short-term winnings are.
OOOOO. You dated someone who worked as a host for a casino.
Casino’s make money by you spending or losing it in their casino. They ARE concerned with player time spent and they LOSE that time if they comp you something outside the casino. For that reason they don’t comp things outside of the casino unless it’s for something else they own or make money from. It’s not hard to understand.
That is unless you are dating a host at a casino apparently.
If they accept gambling on a sport, they cannot have a vested interest in the sport or the teams involved. State law. No luxury suites owned by the casinos. No comping people to go see that sport. State law. It was written into the Raider’s stadium agreement just in case anyone, meaning the team’s owner, didn’t realize it.
Now if you are in California, casinos can be the name sponsor of an arena or ballpark and an indian tribe that owns a casino can be a minority owner in an MLS team.
Not possible in Nevada. Gambling is their lifeblood and they want no chance of even a rumor that a casino is throwing off betting lines.
Let’s just agree to disagree before you blow another fuse.
Nothing to disagree about. No fuses to blow. I understand business. You date casino hosts.
That was kinda mean.
He was banging cocktail waitresses, two at a time! Players at the tables couldn’t get their drinks! What’s the matter with you?
YBC, They can’t. It’s against Nevada state gambling statutes.
There will no doubt be slot machines in and around the stadium.
For such a small market, I have trouble believing Vegas can support more than the two teams it already had. LeBron wants an NBA team there too. It’s madness. Just because the first team in has done bonkers doesn’t mean every league can replicate the Golden Knights.
Wonder what the A’s 5th home will be?
Would be hilarious and satisfying if it’s Oakland or the bay area
Why would a baseball team take fans from other sports or vica versa?
The legislature has not voted yet. No vote is scheduled yet.
Clark County commissioners have not voted yet.
MLB owners have not voted yet.
A’s have been down this road before. They had an agreement with Oakland before trying to change the deal at the last minute.
This is not done yet.
No way the owners vote no. If it gets to them, it’s done.
Owners stand to lose several million per year each on the national TV deals alone. Then you take into account that the A;s will be playing in a 10k stadium for a while so less money from all other local revenue and then they will eventually play in the planned 30k seat stadium, the smallest in MLB, and the other owners will lose even more money.
MLB in Las Vegas makes all the sense in the world. They’ll do better there than Oakland.
MLB makes no sense in Las Vegas and they will fall on their face. Smaller market = less TV money and tiny stadium = less tickets sold than the A’s did before Fisher.
Giants can now put their AAA team in Oakland.
Sacramento has a far, far nicer stadium than Oakland and supports the River Cats well. Sutter Health Park is great except for being more expensive than MLB. I go to River Cats games every year and haven’t been to an A’s game this century, and it’s not just because of distance.
Because you are a Giants fan, not an A’s fan?
Actually, when the River Cats started they were an A’s minor league team and it was still great to watch the River Cats, still true after they switched to the Giants. It gets a tad warm for the August games in the late afternoon, but otherwise it is great. But so are A’s and Giants games. I don’t need a fancy stadium to enjoy baseball. And it sounds like baseball fans may get to enjoy A’s games in Oakland during 2024, 2025 and 2026. I hope there is not an intermediate location.
A’s and Giants games are cold almost every night. Its never 100+ outside in Oakland or San Francisco.
I’m a Blue Jays fan. I don’t really care who the River Cats are an affiliate of, it’s a nice place to catch a ballgame (okay, I do prefer the Giants to the A’s but I still went when they were an A’s team).
I’ve been to games that were 105, 108 in Sacramento. And I walked over a mile to the park in the latter case. It was actually perfectly fine, you find some shade (the foul pole works nicely if you’re in the grass like I usually am) and the games start in the evening so it cools off quick. It’s a dry heat.
Of course I’d never go to an afternoon game in the summer but they’re not stupid enough to schedule many of those.
Sacramento is on a river delta. It is bisected by rivers. The name of the team should have given you that clue. It’s not a dry heat. Humidity averages over 50% all summer. Try again.
The taxpayers should revolt. Their taxes will build the stadium then they will be charged up the nose to attend the games. The A’s will be laughing all the way to the bank.
They already are, intentionally blew up the team and ended up as the 5th most profitable team in the league. Full blown parasites.
@case
Please provide us all with access to the private business records that have lead you to your conclusion! Not many insiders like yourself are willing to provide such confidential financial information on a public forum such as this, and I, for one, wish to call bull!
Forbes. @BizballMaury
“I, for one, wish to call bull!”
Did you pound your desk in fury just then? Who cares? Call bull! Call a few cows too. Here’s a quarter. Call collect. Wait for an answer. Moo!
Vegas is a small market that caters more to the visiting fans than any home fans could possibly compete with (just watch any Raiders game on TV) and very much like the perennially disappointing Raiders the A’s will lose their luster in Vegas faster than a ring from a quarter machine. Meanwhile Fisher is laughing all the way to the bank. It’s a travesty and mark my words, it will happen more frequently as more owners displeased with their margins start leveraging this as a way to hold more cities for ransom.
Seems like the Raiders already have lost their luster since there are thousands of empty seats on every broadcast.
Threatening to move a team that consistently loses so you can make more money is the most asinine thing for this exact reason. New cities don’t want losers. They want a good team to get fired up about. Case in point, the Vegas Knights were a massive success. Not only since they are a totally new expansion franchise without an established history yet but also because they WON A RING INSTANTLY
Let me get this straight the mlb wants to move a team to the strip of Las Vegas!? 2 of the all time greats that are unquestionably Hofs are barred due to gambling. So let’s put a team in the heart of the gambling mecca. Who is bringing their family to the night game there? The mlb is a joke. Nashville was an obvious better fit.
Nashville did not make an offer, so not a better fit.
Gambling in baseball is still a no no for players and coaches but MLB wants to squeeze all the revenue they can out of it.
Pete Rose would probably have his hand slapped today.
They haven’t even scheduled a vote and you guys are running this again?
How about something important like Trout tying Joe DiMaggio in HRs. THAT is important news.
Because that’s not what the article is. about. And this site is about players and owners and transactions.
You don’t pay attention very well apparently.
Don’t click, sport.
In fact, hit the bricks.
Ack ack
FINALLY ! I NEVER WHAT TO HEAR ANOTHER OAKLAND LOSER IN THE STANDS AGAIN EVER . OAKLAND CITY WAS NEVER AN OPTION . WHO WOULD BUILD A NEW STADIUM WITH NO PARKING . SO HAPPY GLEN KUIPER WAS FIRED . IN VEGAS THE A’s WILL HAVE THEIR PICK OF FREE AGENTS ALWAYS . NOBODY WANTED TO GO TO OAKLAND EVEN IF YOU PAID THEM . . A’s FANS YOU CAN STAND IN DOWNTOWN AT NIGHT OAKLAND , AND YELL LETS GO OAKLAND BY YOURSELF .
Finally. I’m excited to see the finished ballpark and will definitely catch a game there.
They have a deal…until they don’t.
Vegas is about to find out how fun negotiating with these kinds of people are. Anything that can be held hostage for more public handouts, will. Capitalism my butt.
the A’s were further along in their negotiations with OAkland than they are now with Las Vegas.
Capitalism my butt.
Actually, there are rumors to that effect. That you capitalize your butt.
As of 5:42 pacific they don’t even have a vote scheduled.
Terrible. Move the team bsck to Philadelphia. That’s where they belong.
I love all the vitriol towards rich people on this thread. The last time I thought about it:
-I’ve never worked for a poor person
-Baseball and all sports would suck if the owners were poor
-Etc.
There’s no problem with tax dollars going to help build a stadium as long as the tax payers agree. The benefits will outweigh the costs.
@prov356
and that the tax payers (government) control the stadium in someway and they lease it to the team. in addition to the agreed upfront construction costs.
Taxes from income generated for construction, players, front office, etc.. won’t make up the total cost government is putting out there but it isn’t nothing and would help offset some of the cost.
Its not like Pittsburgh where they already had a stadium and their employees, in this case most of it is new tax revenue.
There is no state income tax in Nevada so NO tax revenue will come from FO, players, etc… But then you SHOULD know that if you are commenting.
The State and County are providing tax CREDITS, so they both LOSE tax revenue for the next 30 years.
With the exception of players who pay taxes where they play games and a dozen or so high end FO personnel, ballparks draw from local people to fill the jobs. Almost ALL of those jobs are seasonal and part time. In no case has there ever been an increase in net jobs in a region that added a ballpark.
No money is being offset. Only lost.
Literally everything you said is easily shown to be wrong and yet you keep trying to foist off that garbage on the other people here. Why? How do you benefit?
@outinleftfield.
you really are a jerk you know that right? lol. I didn’t know about the income tax. the franchise has other sources of possible tax revenue to the state though. I wonder if those are included in the tax credit.
Maybe, maybe not. I am correct though.
that’s laughable. The benefits of a publicly funded stadium are dwarfed by the costs associated. Economic study after study has shown countless times how poor a record these projects have of delivering those alleged economic promises.
acell10 – Thanks for the feedback. Please give me a reference to one of those economic studies you cited so I can take a look myself.
So you’re relying on me to do you own research because you’re too lazy? I’ll bite. here are two of many.
media.clemson.edu/economics/data/sports/Stadiums%2…
masslive.com/worcesterredsox/2023/05/polar-park-pr…
ace – Interesting way t look at it. When you assert something, the responsibility is yours to back it up with facts.
you’ve asserted several things that weren’t rooted in any kind of fact. You provided no references for your point. I provided the references that you were too lazy to find. Where are yours?
but good try to avoid admitting you were wrong
Here is another directly about Las Vegas
thenevadaindependent.com/article/sports-economists…
“I’ve never worked for a poor person” sounds like a great argument for the restoration of the monarchy.
The taxpayers don’t get a choice in this case. The taxpayers of Nevada and Clark County will not get to vote on this.
There are no benefits county or statewide. In fact, between the tax cuts and the fact that no new jobs will be created, only transferred from other areas, its a net loss for everyone not named John Fisher.
I love these discussions.
Does a single person in here know any of the details of the deal they are supporting or opposing?
Like, what is the upfront cost for the city?
How much tax will be embedded in the cost of every ticket, and every beer?
How much will the As pay in gross receipts taxes?
Y’all are arguing over something, and I doubt any of you know any of the numbers. Just to start, calculate the sales tax on the tickets alone.
historically public money to subsidize stadiums has always been a net negative for the municipalities and have an extremely poor record of producing any of the economic benefits they claim. It ultimately amounts to corporate welfare.
‘
This is not some unique case that’s special to Nevada or any other state, city etc. It’s well documented that spending public money on any stadium is waste for taxpayers.
We know some of those just by reading the referenced articles. You should try that.
The A’s will get a tax credit of $180 million from the State of Nevada.
The A’s will get a 30 year abatement of taxes from Clark County.
There will be no new taxes instituted on tickets or anything else sold in the stadium.
Every dollar spent on tickets is a dollar NOT spent elsewhere in the community. That dollar spent is taxed at 8.23% regardless of where it is spent. There will be no new sales tax revenue generated. People don’t get raises just because a team moves to their community. To say otherwise is just plain ignorant.
Next.
California politics:
I used to be a Padres season ticket guy. I used to get to the game early, buy gourmet coffee from this nice lady who was a Michigan transplant. One day, she handed me my java and said, “You guys voted yes for your stadium (public funding), and we voted no. But the Tigers are playing in their new stadium already, and you guys aren’t.”
Yep.
The A’s should have returned to Philadelphia. Build a new Connie Mack stadium – lots of nostalgia.
So where will they play after 2024 when their lease is up and before the new stadium is completed?
Supposedly the A’s AAA Ballpark
AAA ballpark. They will be there 3 years.
Will they get the Steely Dan tee shirts?
I wonder if they’ll jack up resort fees for hotels due to this.
I think the A’s (and Raiders) are making a mistake in Las Vegas. I think it’s a great short term solution for them, but not in the long term. I don’t expect either team to be there in 20 years. It’s been said already, but there’s too much going on there. Once the novelty wears off, there’ll be the same issues they had in Oakland except there’ll be more options to go to instead of a game.
It’s the franchises, especially raiders recently, have moved cities multiple times already so I don’t think they care. Free stadium, no taxes, fresh opportunity for new fans and entire march lines all makes for new money
This was before the game on the 24th, but the A’s have a run differential of -178. The Pirates, who lost 100 games last season, had a RD of -226. The A’s are over three-quarters of the way to meeting the Pirates’ negative RD in 2022, and we’re not even a third of the way into the 2023 season.
Easily the worst MLBTR comment section of the year.
MLB Owners should VOTE TO BLOCK A’S PROPOSED MOVE TO LAS VEGAS
(It takes only 9 VOTES TO BLOCK A’S MOVE).
SF Giants move to Tampa in the 1999’s WAS BLOCKED BY MLB OWNERS’ VOTE.
SF Bay Area with 8 million+ and some of the richest tech firms in the World and one of the largest TV and sporting fans markets in the country can easily support 2 MLB teams easily and BIG PROFITS CAN BE MADE BY ALL.
SOLUTIONS TO A’s Stadium ISSUES include:
MLB Ownership VOTE TO RESTORE A’s 50% shared territory to
Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley(that was given up in the 90’s by the A’s to save the SF Giants for SF Bay Area with proviso that New Giants Stadium would be build in Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley.
IT WAS NOT. New Giants stadium was built in Downtown SF.
Former MLB Commissioner Bud Selig stated that former A’s Owner, Walter Haas
(Levi Strauss & Co) complimented Haas for “acting in the best interests of MLB baseball” by generously giving the Giants his share of the Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley territory to save the SF Giants for the SF Bay Area.
Selig also stated that the GIFT OF THAT TERRITORY WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE PERMANENT.
At some point, Haas and the A’s expected to receive their 50% share of the Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley territory back from the SF Giants once the Giants had stabilized their franchise with their new stadium built. It was built in downtown SF not in the Santa Clara County Silicon Valley territory as promised and as the only reason Haas and the A’s ceded their 50% of that territory to the SF Giants.
A’s to build new stadium in Santa Clara County/Silicon Valley.
A’s line up lucrative naming rights and endorsements in Silicon Valley.
Giants and A’s SHARE Giants home ballpark while new stadium for A’s under construction.
MLB maintains and increases revenues in one of most lucrative TV and sports markets in USA SF Bay Area.
There are viable stadium sites available in Santa Clara County Silicon Valley for the A’s new stadium.
They A’s and Giants Ownership ‘SIGN ON” to NEW MLB REALITY IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF BASEBALL
OR BE FORCED TO SELL THEIR FRANCISES TO NEW, LOCAL SF BAY AREA WELL FUNDINED OWNERSHIP GROUPS(TRILLIONS IN WEALTH IN SF BAY AREA). There is NO SHORTAGE QUALIFIED & WELL FUNDED who would buy and keep their MLB franchises in SF Bay Area IF NECESSARY).
Read that two separate Buyers approached the A’s with deals to keep the A’s in the SF Bay Area and were rebuffed during this current situation with Oakland and Las Vegas.
If Las Vegas wants an MLB franchise, then it should get in line and compete with other cities seeking MLB expansion franchises.
The A’s should stay in the SF Bay Area.
It may not be in Oakland.
It would, more likely, be in Silicon Valley/Santa Clara County.
.
Some Updates:
The Nevada legislature started discussing the $180 million in tax credits for the A’s on Monday, but have not yet scheduled a vote. It will have to come by the Monday.
After being noticeably absent when SB509 was introduced on Monday, on Wednesday, Fisher, Kaval and several lobbyists in their employ spent most of the day speaking with the Assembly and Senate leaders. Fisher did not appear happy in photos taken after those meetings. Not sure if that means anything. Here is the bill. leg.state.nv.us/App/NELIS/REL/82nd2023/Bill/10623/…
Clark County Commissioner Michael Naft has said that the 30 years of tax credits the county offered as part of the tentative agreement is contingent on the state of Nevada providing at least $180 million. If the state says no or lowers the amount they will offer, the county has not agreed to provide more funding to make up the difference.
A report from the A’s says that the new ballpark will not be ready before the beginning of the 2028 season because of the need for demolition of the Tropicana. The report says the ballpark will take 40 months from groundbreaking to the team moving in.
The A’s have an agreement with the Howard Hughes Corp to share the Las Vegas Ballpark with the Aviators in 2025-2026, but not beyond. They have begun the process of upgrading the park to MLB standards at an estimated cost of $11 million. It is not clear who is footing the bill or if its a shared cost.
The Coliseum in Oakland has reiterated that they will not extend the A’s lease beyond 2024 as it is costing them more money to keep the stadium open than the A’s are paying on their lease.
Norwegian Cruise Lines is in negotiations with the city of Oakland to lease the Howard Terminal site. It is not clear if they are looking at it as a cruise departure site or a ship maintenance site.
This whole FIASCO with Las Vegas CAN BE BLOCKED BY A VOTE OF MLB OWNERS.
WHY THE A’S PROPOSED DEAL WITH LAS VEGAS MAKES NO BUSINESS SENSE
1) The he GDP of the San Francisco Bay Area including Santa Clara County
AND San Jose is bout 577.35 billion U.S. dollars.
2) The GDP of Nevada IS ONLY 149 million dollars
3) SF Bay Area is 6th largest TV market in USA
4) Las Vegas is the 40th largest TV market in the USA
5) Las Vegas is and will remain a AAA City WITH OR WITHOUT THE A’s.
6) MLB, Owners and the A’s will be getting SUBSTANDARD TV REVENUES from
a Las Vegas A’s franchise (losses compared with potential SF Bay Area TV revenues)
7) Las Vegas Deal is a BAILOUT OF OF A’s Owner John Fisher that WILL COST MLB TONS OF MONEY OVER DECADES IN POTENTIAL PROFITS/REVENUES
8) WHY should MLB OWNERS BAILOUT AND SUBSIDIZE BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS BY current A’s Owner JOHN FISHER ?!
9) A STRONG MLB COMMISSIONER FORCED A SALE OF THE HOUSTON ASTROS TO A NEW BUYER, JIM CRANE, after prior Ownership mismanaged its businesses and the Astros and went into bankruptcy.
10) Why is the MLB Commissioner and Owners allowing current A’s Owner, John Fisher to run the A’s franchise into the ground.?!
11) If Current A’s Owner ,Fisher, IS NO LONGER ‘FINANCIALLY VIABLE” TO OWN AND RUN A MLB TEAM ,THE HE SHOULD BE FORCED TO SELL THE A’S FRANCHISE TO LOCAL SF BAY AREA OWNERSHIP THAT WILL KEEP THE A’s IN THE SF BAY AREA, as was former Astros Owner force to sell the team when former Astros Ownership was no longer financially viable.
12) MULTIPLE, Other HIGHLY QUALIFIED, WELL FUNDED SF Bay Area billionaires have OFFERED TO BUY THE A’S AND KEEP THE TEAM IN THE SF BAY AREA .
Fresh, New A’s Ownership would get a new stadium built in the SF Bay Area with the help and support of MLB and the Commissioners Office.
13) The A’s proposed Las Vegas Deal is “SUCKERBAIT” that will be heavily subsidized by current and future MLB Owners and MLB baseball. A proposed Las Vegas A’s will be sucking the MLB “Revenue Sharing teet” for DECADES TO COME
(ESPECIALLY TV REVENUES AND REVENUE SHARING).
14) The proposed benefits of the NFL Raiders move to Las Vegas a few years ago ARE A BUST..
The Raiders rate 30th in NFL attendance.
15) MLB Is “waiving the relocation fee” for a proposed A’s move to Las Vegas?!
That is a HUGE REVENUE LOSS TO MLB COMMISSIONER’S OFFICE AND MLB OWNERS.
17) Use some of the money that would have been the relocation fee for the A’s to LV to give to the Giants when Silicon Valley/Santa Clara County reverts back to 50%/50% Giants and A’s,
18) Let Las Vegas compete with other cities for an MLB expansion franchise and pay the expansion franchise fee if LV is successful in obtaining a new MLB franchise
19) AND MUCH MORE
Well appreciated!
Current Nevada Legislature public opinion stats on Senate Bill 509,
the Athletics stadium subsidy bill:
-72 percent oppose
-26 percent support
-2 percent neutral
Monday at 4:53 pm No vote yet. The state budget has not even been finalized so its unlikely that there will be a vote today. A MASSIVE 72% of those that have contacted the Nevada legislature have been against SB509.
Multiple members of the legislature are a flat out no and the leader of the Senate said its has a 50-50 shot at being voted on unless there is a special session called. .
This article lays out clearly that its not beneficial to Nevada or its residents – thenevadaindependent.com/article/sports-economists… Calls it “standard stadium grift”.
Here is what one Assembly Person had to say – twitter.com/La_Rue_Hatch/status/166584911084558746…
Will Fisher be going back to Oakland hat in hand?
A couple more
twitter.com/ArashMarkazi/status/166577209130656563…
twitter.com/OakStadiumWatch/status/166577291505531…
Ouch.
This – twitter.com/DavidPSamson/status/166581220491288167…
One legislator said that it’s insane to build a ballpark in Las Vegas that is not fully enclosed.
If you haven’t heard, the ballpark would have an extended roof, but not be fully enclosed. Have you been to Las Vegas in July and August? Would you travel to Las Vegas to sit outdoors at 115 degrees to watch a game? Didn’t think so.
The ballpark would have been able to close fully. kind of like wings extending from home plate around the outfield on a track.
Was there a vote on the stadium?
The answer is no. reviewjournal.com/news/politics-and-government/nev…
The Nevada state legislature could come back in a special session later this summer but have adjourned for now.
The public sentiment in Nevada is overwhelmingly negative about public funding for the stadium and that is never a good sign when you come to drink at the public funding trough.
This thread and the one it quotes say there will be a special session but it will not include a vote on the stadium funding.
twitter.com/tabitha_mueller/status/166609149031209…
If Fisher wants to move to Las Vegas it will be 100% on his dime.
The stadium vote is not on the agenda for the special session and the MLB owners did not have it on their agenda for the upcoming Owners Meetings June 13-15. Apparently MLB knew this deal was dead in the water.
This is an interesting article from USA Today.
12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fs…
This article shows how the stadium would have cost taxpayers over $500 million, not $380 million. Maybe that is why it didn’t make it out of committee, let alone get a vote on the floor.
fieldofschemes.com/2023/04/24/19883/as-seeking-meg…
It looks like the stadium vote is dead in the Nevada Senate Finance Committee. It never come to a vote on the floor of the Senate.
Gov. Lombardo has said it will not be voted on in the special session. The Nevada legislature only meets every other year.
What is next for Fisher and the A’s?
So where do they go next? Fisher is not going to want to come out of pocket by $380 million. Bally’s can tear down the Tropicana to allow them to build the ballpark but they are not allowed by law to directly invest in it. They can’t even give away tickets to games because the company has casinos that accept bets on baseball.
So what happens? Back to Oakland? Sacramento? It is a bigger market than Las Vegas and close to Oakland. Does Fisher sell? This is going to get real interesting real fast.