The Angels’ competitive balance tax number still sits narrowly above the $233MM base threshold, reports Jeff Fletcher of the Orange County Register. Los Angeles attempted to shed enough salary via waivers this week to limbo below that number but was unsuccessful.
On Tuesday, the Angels placed six players on waivers. Five of them — Lucas Giolito, Hunter Renfroe, Dominic Leone, Reynaldo López and Matt Moore — were claimed, with the other teams absorbing their salaries. Outfielder Randal Grichuk cleared waivers, however, as no team wanted to take what remained of the $1.7MM that the Halos had assumed on Grichuk’s contract when acquiring him from Colorado.
That’ll apparently be the difference, as Fletcher adds that the Halos would’ve indeed gotten under the threshold had Grichuk been claimed. The Angels could theoretically still try to cut some spending by placing someone else on waivers. Players claimed after August 31 wouldn’t be eligible for postseason work with an acquiring team, but the Halos have more controllable players making above-minimum salaries (e.g. Luis Rengifo or Carlos Estévez) who’d likely be claimed with an eye towards next season if the Angels simply wanted to clear them off the books.
It doesn’t seem that’s the plan though. Minasian told Fletcher he doesn’t believe that paying the CBT this year will affect the club’s budget during the upcoming offseason. The team will barely pay any extra money this year, as they’ll only be taxed at a 20% rate on the minimal amount on which they surpassed the threshold. Nevertheless, it’ll have an impact in a few ways.
Most notably, it subjects the organization to higher fees in the event they exceed the threshold in consecutive seasons. Teams that pay the tax for a second straight year are charged a 30% fee (higher than the 20% standard rate) on their first $20MM of overages the following season. The fees continue to escalate for clubs that exceed the tax for a third straight year and/or surpass the threshold by upwards of $20MM.
CBT payors also receive reduced compensation for losing qualified free agents. The Angels are going to make a qualifying offer to Shohei Ohtani, which he’ll decline. If he subsequently signs elsewhere, the Halos would receive a compensation pick after the fourth round in the 2024 draft. That’s typically around the 140th overall selection. Had the Angels gotten under the threshold, the compensatory pick would’ve landed between Competitive Balance Round B and the third round — approximately 70th overall.
The Angels will hope that latter point is irrelevant because they re-sign Ohtani. (None of their other impending free agents are candidates for the QO.) That won’t be known until the offseason, though an Ohtani deal would likely mean they’re nearing luxury tax territory yet again. Roster Resource projects the Halos’ 2024 CBT number around $131MM. That’s well shy of next season’s $237MM base threshold, but it doesn’t include arbitration estimates. Ohtani’s contract alone figures to tack on at least $40-45MM and could well pay north of $50MM per season. The Angels would obviously need to supplement the roster around Ohtani if they retain him, likely by adding infield depth, at least one starting pitcher and multiple bullpen arms.
DFA Trout.
Someone will pick him up
I was thinking about this the other day.. would someone take Trout’s contract?
That’s a lot of years and dollars left. Injuries have piled up. His defense is ranked slightly below average. He doesn’t steal bases anymore. Still a great bat but he is having an off-year, by his standards.. and how long will that last? Guys like Pujols and Miggy started a sharp offensive decline right around the age Trout is at.
Nope. His contract is under water by most calculations. Someone would probably take him for pr purposes, but possibly not.
Pretty sure the Giants, Mets, Yankees or Phillies would take it.
Doubt it. The Giants might be a possibility in a scenario where they get truly desperate to add a star bat, but that seems unlikely with how they handled Correa. For the Mets, Cohen just got burned by trying to buy an instant winner splurging on aging veterans. I think he learned a lesson as a new owner.
Yankees have enough big salaries committed into the future, and are still paying for having already taken on the big contract of an injury prone star OF, with a declining Stanton, and will be for a while. They won’t repeat it this soon.
All 4 of those teams will likely make a run at Ohtani, as well.
Phillies would 100%
As good as he is, 7 more years seems impossibly long. The Angels will look to “reluctantly” trade him as soon as all value is gone.
Angels would have to pay half of his contract, he could’ve gotten more if he tested free agency with that being said he has a ntc, and wants to stay on one team for his career.
His opinion could be changing. Trout probably had hope when Moreno looked to be selling a year back.
Trout still plays an above average center field, not sure where you get that his defense ranked below average. Odds are, he could move to the corner and be a good glover caliber defender.
I doubt anyone would pick up Trout right now due to luxury tax considerations, I can’t think of any team that could afford his contract who could also slide it into their payroll without going over the luxury tax this year.
He’d have to play enough games to be a gold glover.
I won’t be surprised to see Trout walk away from the game before his contract is up. He’s locked to a really bad team with no future, his contract is very ugly considering how often he gets hurt, and he seems like he’s always dealing with pain in one way or another.
If I were him, I’d play as long as I’m having fun, if the fun isn’t there, he has enough $ to support the next 30 Trout generations.
“Trout stil plays an above average center field”…Defensive analytics are near useless in measuring defensive prowess and that’s where the “Trout is a bad defender” narrative starts and ends. For me, his injuries and healing time are alarming, but he’s still a well above average hitter and defender, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s soon moved to a corner OF position.
The Angels need to find someone young and stupid to take on Trout… call Scott Harris of the Tigers. Remind him how much he wants to get rid of Avila’s mistakes like Baez… and Jobe… and Max Clark… whoops, Clark was Harris’ mistake, my bad. Heck, ask for Franklin Perez… Harris will jump at that deal. He might even throw in Casey Mize in order to wash out that Avila taste in his mouth.
The Tigers are getting rid of Miggy’s $30+ mil a year deal… they could replace it for Trout’s $37 mil a year deal for the next 7 years.
The Nationals won the World Series the year after they lost Harper… The Angels could do it the year after they deal Trout and lose Ohtani.
Melchez 17, are you keeping up with your theme from the other day that Harris should have grabbed Giolito et al to show he is trying to win in a year when they are not going to be relevant. So you argued to sign non-controllable veterans there as being good but now you are arguing to trade for one of the best players EVER as being bad? He is still one of the best players in the league when he’s on the field and a veteran leader on a young Tigers team would be a real win with Miggy retiring. It will NEVER happen…he’ll retire an Angel! Pick a position dude (other than you hate Harris).
As for your other comments, I’m not sure if you are saying they should trade Baez, who no one chants, to the Angels or the other players you mention? I believe Franklin Perez got cut, Jobe and Clark are both going to be very solid players at a minimum and Mize has been a #3 starter, granted not the #1 we hoped when Avila drafted him. #3 is pretty good last time I checked.
I wish Harris would trade for Trout… I think it’s a great move to add a solid veteran future hall of famer to this young roster. It’s a smart move. Harris would never do it. Harris like to churn the bottom of the roster… he doesn’t do anything about the top of the roster. He will sign a couple DFA guys… maybe a veteran looking for a change of scenery for a bunch of money that won’t work out. It’s the only trick in his bag.
My call for signing uncontrollable veterans now is because it’s the only way to improve a team this late in the season. Add some veterans to replace the AAAA players in the system. Then when they leave as free agents, replace them with major league players.
I’m all about winning. No team should tank. Especially a team like the Tigers. They are in a winnable division and they have the resources to get very good players. They are a professional baseball team… they need to start acting like it.
Mize… a number 3 starter… LOL For the Mud Hens, maybe? 5.40 era is not a number 3.
Clark will never be as a good as Wyatt Langford.
He 100% needs to do something this offseason.
Mize got hurt and barely pitched last year. In 2021 he had 30 starts and a 3.71 era…#3 starter stats. No sense arguing about Langford vs Clark right now. That’ll take at least a couple years to figure out who might be better. I think we both hope I’m right on that one (that Clark was the better long term choice), but if I’m wrong I’ll join you in being pissed like I was minutes after the draft. The savings on Clark also got us McGonigle who has twice as many walks as strikeouts right now so theres that too. I was hoping for Crews to drop to be honest with the rumblings that Pittsburgh would take Langford to save money.
He needs to hire a GM to do the job because he needs to sit in the office signing checks.
The savings on Jobe got us Payton Graham… Harris learned how to draft like Avila.
Mize could become a decent starter, he had one good year. Thought he was supposed to be back by now. I hope Clark works out, but Langford looked like a beast.
100% agree. Stymedone said that too. Needs to happen.
Young GMs are for the most part highly analytically driven. They’re the least likely to take on Trout’s salary. They also don’t have the ability to take on that type of contract. This would an ownership decision.
Baez was a mistake. Jobe and Clark, top prospects, won’t even be mentioned. As ridiculous as it first sounded (and Chris I is much tighter with the wallet) Baez would give the Angels a solid defensive SS, and Trout would give the Tigers a right handed power bat to fill LF, and replace Miggy’s star power. The trade off would be the savings on dumping Trout’s future salaries. Its not going to happen because the Angels need the star power draw more than Detroit. Still its not that bad a starting point for a trade.
I think that with someone’s contract not necessarily trout but maybe, they could pull a trade like they did with the Giants and wil Wilson where they package enough minor league talent that the team essentially is buying prospects from the Angels farm at the cost of an underwater contact. Anyone like trout or rendon though would take a lot more than one high level prospect
Trout is a victim of the Angels training and medical staff. And its a darn shame, too.
I hope they go full tear down mode this summer and give us a chance to see Trout on a legit team.
They might wait until he elects free agency to have him for the league minimum.
This season has been such a disaster they couldn’t even get under the tax threshold correctly.
Somebody’s math was wrong.
The team was banking on someone taking Grichuk off their hands. If that happened they’d be under the tax threshold.
This season been a disaster? The team has had Trout and Ohtani for years and they couldn’t even finish at.500
This team m been a disaster for much longer the one season.
Team has been a disaster since roughly 2010 when they hired President John Carpino, fired scouting director Eddie Bane, fired Rex Hudler as the announcer, traded Napoli for Vernon Wells, and started playing “Buttercup” at the 7th inning stretch.
These events marked the turning point from a perpetually division winning team to a perpetually losing team.
You may be right.
Charle Foxtrot to the Nth.
I totally agree with your assessment. Well said.
They expected grichuk to be claimed, should’ve put rengifo on waivers as well or estevez to make sure it happened.
Yep, some team would have grabbed Rengifo to hit cleanup, as the Angels are doing.
Eight guys in MLB currently have an OPS over .900. Since June 21, Rengifo’s OPS is well over .900. He’s been one of the best hitters in MLB for 2+ months and he’s still not appreciated by some Angels fans.
Funny but true, sounded like the goal was to get under the first tax threshold. question why they didn’t make sure to get it done with adding some more players
Yes, since mid July he’s been very good. Yes, right underneath JP Crawford.
And he’s done it with a well below average hard hit rate.
He’s going through a nice window, the mistake is believing it’s sustainable. The management looks at windows and constantly believe the unsustainable is sustainable. It’s one of the reasons we stink. And it’s why we can’t build a bullpen.
fwiw, Rengifos OPS in July (1.072) and August (.911) are higher than JP Crawford during the same time period. Rengifo’s exit velo on the season is also higher than Crawford’s and higher than the MLB average. Not bad when you consider your comparing a utility player that plays six positions to Seattle’s star SS.
I took after the all star break and wRC+. Who do you think he’s going to be?
And as a utility player, who should not be plan “A”, he can make a difference getting 300 ABs. He’s the kind of player I use to love watching in the 70s when the Angels had no real chance of winning.
Rendon 3B, Neto SS, Drury 2B, Schanuel 1B, Rengifo Util and tbd free agent as Util and Rendons permanent replacement after May 31 would probably be the current thinking for next year. Rengifo’s getting so many ABs this year at six positions due to crippling injuries around the diamond for the Halos. Pretty incredible performance for a super utility player.
That contract was always a massive overpay.
Yes. He’s Trout.
Why not DFA Ohtani? He’s not coming back!
They should have earlier this week. Would have saved $5 or $6m plus the tax.
Lost compensatory draft pick, probably the main reason. Second he’s practically the only reason for anyone to show up to watch the Angels anymore, and third, his merchandise sales are probably still very lucrative.
Merch is split, unless that was changed recently
I’d take that split, wouldn’t you?
Half of a lot is still more than half of nothing.
What is the Angels record with 3rd round picks, compared to their 4th round picks? Do you think the motivation for attempting to get under the threshold was to get the better draft pick as compensation for losing Ohtani, or to reduce the penalties on additions, after they re-sign Ohtani? I believe they have given up hope of keeping him.
I don’t know what it means to ask about any team’s record in making draft picks. I only know that every team considers draft picks to be valuable, and higher draft picks to be more valuable than lower picks. The Angels look to be on the verge of a substantial rebuild, so especially in their case the more and higher their draft picks the better.
1/30, not 1/2.
1/30th of a lot is still more than half of nothing.
I believe if the paid it down to a $20MM-a-year player they’d have no problem moving him. $37MM too high as he’s now 32-years-old and increasingly injury prone.
I highly doubt it ever happens – just the massive PR hit to the Angels by potentially losing the draws of Ohtani and Trout would be staggering – but the pipe dream of Trout to the Phillies is so enticing.
C – Realmuto
1B – Harper
2B – Stott
SS – Turner
3B – Bohm
LF – Castellanos
CF – Marsh/Rojas
RF – Trout
DH – Schwarber
The Angels hope Shohei Ohtani remains healthy the life of his contract. What’s the chances Mike Trout and Anthony Rendon spend more than 15 days on the field together at once?
what?
They tried to win
It didn’t work
They tried to lose
It didn’t work
They tried to be expensive
It didn’t work
They tried to be cheap
It didn’t work
They tried to win
It didn’t work
They tried to tank
It didn’t work
The Angels, 2023
The rest of the division loves the Angels. After 6 years of having the 2 best players in baseball, they have nothing to show it. Now, they’re basically done. Trout is entering his vet bill years and their are no young pups barking on the farm.
The young pups are now in the majors with low contracts: O’Hoppe, Neto, Schanuel, Moniak, Ward, Renjifo, Detmers, Canning, Sandoval, Soriano, Joyce and add Drury and Estevez. Solid inexpensive base with MLB experience from which to spend this off-season.
That’s not a winning team.
Duh, it’s only 13 players.
Like he said, the rest of the division loves it.
astros_fan_84;
Come on…
You follow the Astros and talk about 2 players carrying a team? Starting pitchers pitch once every 5 – and now 6 – games. Batters hit once every 9 times.
Tell us who the stars are on the Tampa Bay Rays and why they’ve been contending for 5 years now.
I’m not sure your point. The Angels had two players capable of generating 8-10 WAR individually. That’s incredible. Just as incredible is that the GM couldn’t find enough role players to generate a winning record.
I’m not a Rays fan, but I admire them greatly. Brilliant front office.
Pretty obvious where it all went wrong…..
They tried to win without strong starting pitching
It didn’t work
Sad trombone effect here…
You really have to have a cynical sense of humor to enjoy watching the drama this team entertains us with
You really have to have a cynical sense of humor to enjoy
============================
BB is a cynic’s hot spot. They NYY, NYM, and SD spending with abandon, and hoping to finish .500.
Fans screaming for Fisher’s head, while the A’s were one of the better-run teams in BB.
Colorado signing Arenado, then letting Story & Gray walk for nothing, and then having to trade Arenado because they couldn’t afford, only to sign Bryant for similar net money, and half the ability.
Colorado signing Desmond for 5 years, only to realize that they didn’t have a position open for him.
Cashman going into the 2021 season with no LH bat other than 37 year old Gardner, in Yankee Stadium of all places.
Can’t be one of the better run teams in baseball when you spent most of the season just fighting not to have the worst record in modern baseball history.
Going for it and failing is still better than giving up all effort to put a winning team on the field just to pocket money like Fisher has done.
Outinleftfield – the article is about the Angels “giving up all effort to put a winning team on the field just to pocket money”..
Surprised they didn’t DFA Moustakas and Escobar. I doubt they could’ve DFA’d Cron as he’s on the DL.
Fletcher,Rendon Sassi and so on to.
Waiving someone only works to reduce the CBT number if another team was willing to claim the remaining salary (which is why they didn’t get under when Grichuk cleared). No one would’ve claimed Rendon or Stassi. Fletcher’s already off the roster after clearing waivers in July. They reportedly waived Tyler Anderson last week without success as well.
As for Moustakas and Escobar, that wouldn’t have saved any money even if they’d been claimed. The Mets are paying down Escobar’s contract to the league minimum. Same situation with Moustaskas: Reds are on the hook for all but the minimum because this would be the final season of his four-year deal if he were still in Cincinnati.
People get upset at Rendon, but what makes anyone think Perry would have done a better job spending the money. His track record is abysmal.
Giancarlo Stanton for Rendon if the money is even and Angels pay Stanton’s ’27 salary? Yankees need an old thirdbaseman.
While I don’t doubt that you’re already quite aware why your comments keep being taken down, I’ll refer you to the section in here on “commentary that is unrelated to the subject matter of the post.”
mlbtraderumors.com/2021/04/upcoming-changes-to-mlb…
I see moderators are quite zealous with removing comments here. Maybe have normal people review them instead? That may help. If 99% of comments you remove for being “off topic” are ones you disagree with and 1% are ones you agree with, that’s going to be seen that way. It’s quite ridiculous that authors feel the need to remove objectionable content instead of just giving people the mute button (LinkedIn does this).
Have you noticed…. every single article has multiple grammatical errors? I know this isn’t English class and I for one am terrible at writing, but many times I have to reread a sentence just to try and figure out what the author actually meant. Could they maybe cut out one of the many moderators and hire someone to proofread the articles before they get posted? All the extra money they are making from that sham of charging extra for memberships during the pandemic, they should be able to hire someone to proofread the material.
Just curious, how many of these subscribers have been banned? And do you still charge them for their membership?
Multiple users have had their comments immediately removed from this article’s comment section due to alleged dissent.
==========================
I don’t think I’ve had any comments removed and I think I am harder on the MLB-R writers than most posters.
Its called flagging. The other users on the board spoke and the moderators listened. Nothing to do with dissent. A large enough number people spoke up and said they are tired of seeing your garbage.
Who would have claimed either of them?
Those actually weren’t DFA situations. It’s a quirk in the rule where they were placed on waivers and could only be claimed on waivers before the deadline for their playoff eligibility. If they weren’t claimed, they returned to the main roster. If they were released or chose free agency and another team claimed them, the minimum salary for the remainder of the season would come off the final totals for the teams. In the Angels’ case, if there’s anyone out there that is a free agent now where they are still on the hook and another team signed the player to a minor league deal then selected him to the majors, the Angels would see a small benefit for every day he’s in the majors. Is it likely to be enough to get them under the threshold? Probably not.
Since their former teams are paying all but the prorated part of the minimum, waiving them would not have saved the Angels much money. About $120k each
DFA Moreno that will save the team.
If only we could.
If it weren’t for that meddling owner, the Angels might not be an incompetent organization from top to bottom.
To paraphrase a Scooby-Doo cartoon, “If it wasn’t for that meddling owner, we would have won the World Series.”
The Angels haven’t spent big money on free agent since Rendon. What meddling has Moreno done the last three seasons?
Minasian has done everything he has wanted and his moves have sucked.
Agree with you on Moreno, he gets unfairly criticized these days, especially when he keeps giving fans top 10 payrolls. But I actually really like Minasian, with injuries being the cause of missing the playoffs this year.
What good mlb moves has Minasian made? It’s possible two people can look at the same data and formulate different opinions, but it seems to me Minasian isn’t batting 200 on his MLB moves.
And I’ve said from day 1, if this pen is bad, someone needs to be held accountable. Well, the pen is really bad.
Our season record is not because of injuries. It’s because of bad pitching and a lack of clutch hitting with RISP…same as every year.
Those are certainly contributing factors but a healthy team – notably Trout – would likely have resulted in at least a WC berth.
You have to be a competent team for way longer than 3 years to actually build something. And Moreno was meddling as recently as 2019 when he forced Eppler to hire Maddon. He also interfered earlier this year by stopping Perry from trying to influence the current manager, Nevin.
Nevin is nothing but a Minasian’s puppet! Fire them all!
conin – Every team has injuries. Pitchers are dropping like flies across MLB. The teams that succeed through them are the ones that have the depth to absorb players going down. The Angels don’t.
And then there’s pitching. Our BP has blown 22 saves this season out of 63 save opportunities. That’s more than a third.
The trouble with Moreno is that he spends money on wrong things and tries to make it up for it by cutting back on the wrong things, and both of these backfire, often at the same time. So you simultaneously get a big payroll and a pennypinching owner. The whole DFA fiasco is a perfect illustration of this.
I like Minasian, except for firing Maddon in the middle of the season, he’s made some good moves. If Trout, Rendon, Max Stassi and Jared Walsh were as good as last year, things would have been different. Also, I think they ran Shohei into the ground. Should have rested him more, maybe he would still be in one piece.
What goes unnoticed and therefore not Harper on, is the money not being spent on the back end in an effort to maximize profits
His meddling with the huge contracts to big, flashy hot names is obviously beyond destructive. But its also not the only major issue hes brought to the organization
The Angels other issues come in scouting, developing, conditioning and medical attention. That is where his penny pinching has hurt the club most, as it consistently leaves him with a group of Major Leaguers who are constantly going down with stress/”overuse” injuries, and zero depth to withstand them
On the other end of the spectrum, people give teams like Oakland, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, etcetera a hard time for not spending money. What those teams have in common are unbelievable scouting and developing teams. Theor money is being spent, just not on the publicly seen payroll portion of the club
So you like Minasian? That makes sense?
but a healthy team – notably Trout – would likely have resulted in at least a WC berth.
==========================
You’re 11.5 games out. Trout has missed two months. Unless Trout if a 34.5 WAR player, you’d have still missed the playoffs.
Or from another perspective, LAA is 25th in ERA. You would need to be 1st in scoring to have even the 13th overall ranked team.
We had very good starting pitching last year. It took a huge step back. Since analytics is not going away, the Angels need to get rid of wise and bring in a pit pitching coach who will work with the analytics department instead of pointing the finger at them.
We have had pitchers with flashes of greatness. Detmers, Anderson, Sandoval, Barria, Suarez, Bundy, Shoemaker, Santiago, et al. Each of those guys had a season of breakout performance so we hang on to them like that level of performance is now their norm. It never is and they always regress back to their usual mediocre selves and we all act surprised. I can’t think of one pitcher we have signed recently who had a sustained high level of MLB success prior to coming to the Angels.
They’re 11.5 out…Trout is good, he’s not that good.
Getting an organization that works together seems like something that should be a no brainer, but I feel like we hear about (or have it hinted at) this kind of stuff more often than I’d expect.
Can’t tell if the Angels season is a tragedy or a comedy
tragedy plus time equals something something
Team wins the world series in 2002, gets sold and mostly does nothing for the next 20 years.. Only one thing in common that whole time..
Not true. They had a good run of making the playoffs and being competitive. It’s more accurate to say this since 2016.
Poetically, 2015 is the last year with Anaheim in their name
That said, 2014 was pure fluke, they were not actually that good of a team. Getting swept by the Royals, being outscored 15-6 in the three game series, highlights that well
John Lackeys last season with the club (2009) is the the last time they made the playoffs otherwise, and the last time they won a playoff game
It is obvious what Moreno inherited from Disney ran itself well, and he largely keep that organization in place as long as he could. But you can likely find the cause of the downward turn to have come with Disney employees leaving
If you picked a specific spot when his meddling became the problem with the organization, it would likely be 2011-2012. That’s when the team added big/hot names like Vernon Wells, Albert Pujols, Chris Iannetta, CJ Wilson, Jason Isringhausen, Zach Grienke, and more
2010 happens to be the year the success which began in the Disney finally era ran out, with the Angels seeing their first sub-500 team since 2001. I would guess 2009-2010 saw the last remaining important Disney employees leave the organization, and Moreno stepped up following 2010s disappointment to show his hired team how it should be run
…they’ve been basically irrelevant ever since, and becoming a laughingstock started with that 1st big 2011 acquisition, Vernon Wells
The Royals beat the Angels in 2014 because of their pen and because Mike Trout stopped hitting.
Not because they were better.
Since Tony Reagins quit in 2011 because of Moreno’s meddling, its been a steady decline. One bump in the right direction under diPoto until Moreno blew that up and then all downhill from there.
The Angels hitters went .170/.248/.311/.559 as a team, and the Royals starters went 19 innings of 5 ER ball (a 2.39 ERA)
Overall, Royals had a 1.74 ERA as a team, to the Angels at 4.50
Yes, the Royals were just flat out better. The Angels were completely exposed on both the hitting and pitching side by a team that went to back-to-back World Series
And the Angels lost two extra inning games because the bullpen overmatched of them.
The Angels were a better team. But that’s what bullpens can do to you in the post season.
My god, KC got luck to get in the playoffs, and Oakland the wild card game.
You’re working on revisionist history. Had Davis not been such a honorable starter, you wouldn’t even be talking about this.
Also not true. ALCS in 2009 and one playoff appearance since. The Angels ownage of the AL West from 2004-’05,’07-09 came in between rebuilding cycles in Oakland, a rebuild in Texas and the Mariners spending money worse than the Angels themselves
Fletcher quotes Roster Resource. That has not proven to be a good resource in the past.
We won’t know the final payroll numbers until MLB publishes it. A lot of accounting sorcery which the public doesnt know about. My guess is the Angels are below the CBT.
Cots Baseball Contracts have the Angels at $226 million. They have proven far more accurate in the past.
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1Br91APa79hWA8c…
Hard to believe the Angels would have gone to that extent without going under by enough to make it without a couple of those guys getting claimed.
Yankees are in the same boat. Some publications including Cots have them currently over $293MM into Mets’ territory but I’m doubtful of that as well.
Cots has been within 2% nearly every season, but that is a lot of money when you are talking about $233 million or more. I think Minasian knows where they are now that its all over and he has had to call up multiple players to the majors to fill the holes left by the guys that are leaving.
That doesn’t seem accurate, or even close. The Mets started the year at approximately $350MM (not including an expected tax bill of $80MM). The trades they made at mid-season will reduce that some, but not by that much since they’re still paying a large chunk of Scherzer’s and Verlander’s deals, and they already paid full salary for nearly four months.
Fletcher is quite literally quoting the GM saying they’re over right now. Roster Resource’s unofficial calculations have them under, which is apparently not the case.
latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2023-09-01/angels-…
You commenting on the accuracy of…anything, is hilarious.
LOL Angels!
Joke franchise. And I’m saying that as a Royals fan lol
Even the Angels accounting team is a joke
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1Br91APa79hWA8c…
More likely Roster Resource is wrong.
The second paragraph of Fletcher’s column:
“A day after the Angels had more than $5 million come off their payroll by having five players claimed on waivers, General Manager Perry Minasian said the team is still above the threshold for the luxury tax in 2023.
Public sources that track major league payrolls often have estimates or other incomplete information, so it was not certain whether the Angels made it until Minasian addressed the topic on Friday.”
Fletcher isn’t simply relying on Roster Resource, which itself had actually estimated the Angels were narrowly below the CBT. He’s getting this directly from the organization.
Clean house.
What an incompetent group.
If the Angels end up above the threshold, the incompetent decision is not waiving the players. Their incompetence is in how long they waited to pull this move. They waited until the last possible moment. It should have happened a week prior
No, the purpose of waiving these players when they did was to ensure that whoever claimed the players before the deadline to be playoff eligible would assume the entire contract. It’s possible that they could’ve been on rolling waivers if that’s permitted, but that’s doubtful since revocable waivers don’t exist anymore. Teams signing them to the minimum after they cleared waivers wouldn’t have provided the Angels enough of a benefit.
Doesn’t the article directly below this say Randal Grichuk will stay on the Angels after clearing these exact same waivers? Spoiler, it does.
Teams get one chance to pass players through waivers and to keep them if unclaimed. But if claimed, they’re gone now. Doing it on august 21 v. august 29 only gives an acquiring team *more* incentive to claim an impact guy.
And doing it a week prior ensures the contracts that are going to get claimed – you know, like the 5 players who are gone – are claimed with more money remaining, reducing their luxury tax. It’s simple math
They waited for the 1.1% chance they’d magically turn it around without Ohtani pitching or Trout after his re-injury. It was sloppy and frankly seems like it screwed them out a pick ~60 slots higher when Ohtani leaves and the drought grows to 9 years
I see no way McCourt is not correct. I don’t know if it would have been enough, but waiving earlier, rather than later, has to save more money.
They really might as well just put a reliever or two on waivers and get under the threshold. Let’s be realistic, that draft pick WHEN, not if, Ohtani signs elsewhere is all they’re going to have to show for it. Not only for him signing elsewhere, but essentially it’ll be all they’ll have to show even for this season in which they traded away 2 of their best prospects.
Ohtani is going to want to go somewhere he’ll reach the playoffs. The Angels have already shown that they can’t get there with teams they build around him and Trout while he’s on his current salary. When his AAV doubles, he’s going to have no reason to believe that they can be competitive with him and Trout taking up that much salary space.
Their farm system isn’t sitting all that great. And then they won’t have squat for money they’re willing to spend to put the needed players around him. They may as well push to get that earlier pick. Because I’d say he’s as good as gone.
Angels probably have as good a chance of signing Ohtani as any other team. Moreno has never been afraid to spend. A lot of people thought he would never be able to extend Trout, but he did. Other than the Mets, how many teams are going to be willing to obliterate their payroll for what it takes to sign him? Even fewer teams if he wants to stay on the west coast.
Dude gave up $100m+ to come over early. He really doesn’t strike me as the type of player that’s going to just go to which ever team offers the biggest pool of money to swim in.
Perry Minasian needs to get with another organization.
He’s done a wonderful job with the Angels, but Arte changes direction and inserts himself into the decisions about the ML
roster so often that there’s never time for anything to play itself
out.
If the owners would give him a budget each year along with a 4 year contract he could make real contenders of the A’s, Cardinals, Giants, Mets, Padres, Pirates, Rockies, Twins, Yankees……and even the Angels if Arte would sell the franchise. Plus I’m leaving off 2 -4 other franchises that would be better off with him running Baseball Ops.
The Angels are right up there with the Cleveland Browns as the most poorly run organization in American professional team sports due to the owner.
This team needs an Astros/Pirates/Athletics level rebuild cleanse more than any other team.
The White Sox can be added to that list, Yankees right behind them too.
You mean be really horrible for about 4-5 years and get top picks every year to quickly rebuild the roster for the next decade? There is 2 very big issues with this strategy in 2023. The draft lottery system now gives random teams the opportunity at the number 1 pick. Sure you have the best chance at getting the lottery by percentage going in but the team with the worst record no longer is guaranteed even a top 5 pick anymore.
The second issue is even in your own example of the tanking teams of the past. The Pirates may be on their way to a similar type strategy if the players can be developed properly and they hit on the majority of their picks and international signings, but they have not turned the corner just yet and won a World Series like the Astros. The Astros during their time picking also had some issues with top picks not delivering as well (Appel and Aiken). The Athletics have historically drafted and developed well even with lesser talent, but trade them away the moment they become expensive. They were not willing to take the next step which was increase payroll like the Astros did. So just picking early and actually sustaining a winning tradition is different.
There are many ways to achieve a successful rebuild, but tanking seems like the least successful way with the current CBA in place. Teams like the Dodgers, Braves, and Astros now have a solid major league structure where stars are locked up either to team friendly deals or upgraded free agent pickups to supplement the positions that the farm doesn’t produce on a yearly basis. The Braves farm is not considered elite and is actually considered in the bottom, but it produces just enough talent to churn players needed at any point to supplement the needs. The Dodgers and Astros spend more on outside additions, but also have a minor league system that can supplement their needs. Perhaps this strategy has always been best, but MLB certainly limited the Era when tanking could quickly change a teams luck and now makes it essential to develop the minor leagues again through successful drafting, international signings, and player development.
Tanking for the #1 pick is nonsense….
The O’s got Gunner Henderson in the 2nd round.
The Rays have been contending for 5 years, have low draft picks, and constantly have a great farm system. How about the Dodgers? Think the O’s will slow down because they’ve started winning so they’ll draft low?
Drafting isn’t even half the battle – developing the players teams draft is the primary challenge. Most lousy organization that draft high because their records are so poor stay lousy because their minor league operations are crummy so they don’t develop many of the players they draft.
It doesn’t matter if they are above the tax or not. Arte is poison and they aren’t winning with him owning the team. Who on earth cares about their comp pick moving up a couple rounds? It’s beyond embarrassing what this team did. Getting fleeced by Rick Hahn speaks for itself
What has Arte done in the last three years to screw this team?
Remember it’s Minsian that has called the dugout and told Nevin and Maddon how to manage, Arte hasn’t done that.
Sign Rendon lmao
Four years ago. He’s had nothing to do with these awful Minasian moves, and Minasian has proved he’s no better spending Money than Moreno.
When Arte decided not to sell it was the final nail in the coffin. Arte’s biggest flaw is his utter disregard for the minor league players. They have the worst player development in MLB. Year after year they sign 20-30 players from Latin America. While most other teams reap the rewards from developing these young players for the Angels, ehere are these guys? Arte spends the minimum amount necessary to run the MILB teams. This has gone on for the better part of his ownership term. It is nearly impossible to win without developing your own players. There has been little depth in the organization to compensate for the myriad of injuries that seem to pile up year after year.
I have been an Angels fan for 50+ years and I have never felt worse about this organization than right now.
I think that’s a huge problem with Moreno.
But the highest Angel pick this century is still Bachman. That’s Minasian.
And as a Baseball America writer wrote on twitter yesterday, Schanuel profile makes it very difficult for him to succeed at this level. I like Schanuel, but he’s never going to be an impact bat. That’s a pretty high take at 11. Neto won’t be an all star either.
Again I like both player, but neither will make a difference.
Never going to be an impact bat
That was the wrap on Trout being drafted out of New Jersey.
That was the wrap on Ohtani coming out of his 1st Spring Training.
I’ll wait for the players to prove they can or can’t before taking any scouting advise from the amateurs on this board.
We think the Angels might just decline to extend the QO to Ohtani as a showing of goodwill and to not force a decision on him, like what the Dodgers did with Kershaw? The QO only matters if the team doesn’t sign the player and the Angels’ #1 goal this offseason is (or at least should be) to get Ohtani signed.
And if he does sign elsewhere, how often does a 4th/5th round sandwich pick actually turn into an everyday player/starting pitcher?
Legendary
Not the same as Kershaw who wanted time to see if he felt healthy enough to come back for the full season and wanted options open
Ohtani will not need much time to think about this, with the injury he wants a big long term high paying contract and he wants to leave. I do not think he harbors any ill feelings to Anaheim, he just wants to be on a more competitive team.
QOing a player doesn’t mean he doesn’t have time to see if he feels healthy enough. Kershaw COULD have just declined the QO. Then he’s free to take as long as he wants to decide if he wants to play and with whom. It also didn’t mean his “options” weren’t open. Not that it would have mattered. He’s a Dodgers lifer.
Again. The QO only matters if Ohtani signs elsewhere and the Angels’ only goal right now should be to get him signed.
Epic fail of a season.
The only owner that loves CBT is Cohen.
ayyo
The first move of the off-season was giving Brett Phillips a 1.2 mil contract that many questioned the necessity. No one else was gonna sign him. They essentially gifted him a million dollars to play for the Bees. And after all those moves, that was the difference in still going over the cap.
Let me see how they endorce the ridiculous off-topic content moderation topic with neutrality. Why doesn’t MLB TR hire any female authors here? I haven’t seen a single one. Do you guys not want former softball players to diversify the site?
I wonder why MLB TR writes like their guys are Ohtani’s agents and not normal folks. The reason ticket prices are so high is that players demand almost 800k minimum wages as “living wages.” Free agency has resulted in a salary increase of around 9% per year from Nolan Ryan’s 1980 salary of 1.125 million to the 43.33 million Verlander and Scherzer make to top MLB. Seriously, is this 45-50 AAV for a Yordan Alvarez-type DH only for many years idea coming from his camp? Seriously, he has never been too durable, walks are a huge problem this year, and he may not even have been worth 50 million even as a 2 way athlete. Those who look at WAR need to understand an average player accumulates 2 WAR in a full season as a hitter and 2 WAR as a pitcher. That means his 10 WAR seasons are more like 8 WAR (6 Wins Above Average). Mike Trout got a much lower amount for being a 10 WAR player. It does take one foolish owner to blow up the market, but MLB Trade Rumors should really stop with their irrational opinions. If you write an article on something, people on the internet may occassionally disagree. It may be good to view differing perspectives on something without being urged to remove it.
Arguably the most pathetic franchise in the league of the last decade+. Hopefully Shohei realizes this, and runs.
The White Sox also belong on that Stinky Velveteen Couch of Being Pathetic.
The Padres are pretty darn close. Heck there are a lot of teams pretty darn close.
OAK, CIN, BAL and MIA s’ books are clean next season.
Man, They are a terribly run organization. Going back years. Firing Soccia was the biggest mistake. Their Pitching Staff is terrible. 2 Ohtani TJs. The makeup of the team is always screwy. With the overspending. And they just traded away More Prospects for Nothing.
Ohtani Leaves. That’s My Guess. He wants to DH on the West Coast. Giants, Dodgers, Seattle. The Giants are the only team to Not have a Historical Player from Japan. I’d Guess the Giants get him the off-season. Better Contenders and very much on the rise. Not to Mention Splash Hits.
What is the motivation for using so many inappropriate caps? Is that like a kid thing or something?
Angel Fan I Take It ? Ha. Love the Comment. Thanks.
The Giants had the very first player ever from Japan in Masanori Murakami, I’d wager that’s pretty historical and why I think the Giants will not land Ohtani….
We’ll find out.
Imagine Cincy vs Cleveland in the World Series for the cherry on top!
neither might make the postseason, especially cleveland
clown level owner/management could trip and fall and still miss the ground
Is Chaim Bloom running the Angels, too?
Would it be possible to not expand to 28 players thereby lowering their salary and getting under the tax?
Do salaries for suspended players count against the CBT? If so, maybe there’s someone, not necessarily even a player currently on the active roster, who could try to help out.
Nothing goes right for this organization.
All that money spent with nothing to show for it, just like all the nerds into crypto
Do you know that Bitcoin is worth almost $26,000? It has been better than most stocks during its existance.
The Angels drew 3 million fans every year from 2003 through 2019? As a business owner Arte has done very well.
Ohtani will not re-sign with LAA. Don’t even pretend this is a possibility. Ain’t gonna happen.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but Moreno has to be the worst owner in all of sports, not just baseball! Holding onto Ohtani was a terrible decision, too bad he was the only one who did not see it. Maybe now he will sell.
Don’t know why I read this crap but I get sucked in every time
Is there any chance now that Ohtani would accept the QO for next year if he will be a DH only rehabbing from TJ surgery and then enter free agency in 2024 for a bigger contract when he will be back to being a 2 way player-pitcher?
Only the Angels could manage to be over the luxury tax threshold AND be one of the worst teams in baseball. I e been a fan for decades but I’m not sure that can continue after another dismal season.
Only the Angels could manage to be over the luxury tax threshold AND be one of the worst teams in baseball. I’ve been a fan for decades but I’m not sure that can continue after another dismal season.
Lol. Lol, lmao. Can’t stop laughing about this. This is the kind of truly innovative failure that has afflicted the Mariners for basically their entire existence. Now though, I look at the wreckage of the Angels franchise and think, well maybe the Mariners aren’t the cursed ones anymore?? Maybe it’s finally time to pay the piper for all those years of Scioscia Devil Magic.
Just to recap: Angels have the choice between trading Ohtani for the biggest rental haul in history, or going all in to try make the playoffs with Ohtani. They choose the latter. The Mariners IMMEDIATELY end their season with a four-game sweep. Now in a desperate bid to get under the luxury tax they place half the roster on waivers, but because ONE GUY goes unclaimed they don’t make it under and their comp pick for losing Ohtani will be 70 picks later. Lol, lmao. Thank you baseball Jeebus for this wonderful extended parade of the Angels insistently stomping on their own wieners. Truly, nothing but gratitude from this Mariners fan.