The Reds enjoyed a 2023 season in which they exceeded expectations, spending the summer in the mix for a playoff spot despite ultimately falling just short with an 82-80 record. With a bevy of young infielders led by Elly De La Cruz and Matt McLain, the club appears poised to potentially take another step forward in 2023. One key area in need of improvement, however, is the pitching staff: Cincinnati’s team ERA of 4.83 was the sixth-worst figure in the majors, and only the A’s and Rockies saw their rotation post a worse ERA than the Reds’ 5.43 figure. That rotation ERA is made all the more glaring by the fact that Reds starters combined for just 787 innings of work this year, 23rd in the majors.
Of course, that body of work from the rotation ignores the injury woes of promising young arms like Hunter Greene and Nick Lodolo, who could combine with fellow youngsters Andrew Abbott, Brandon Williamson, Graham Ashcraft and Connor Phillips can fill out a rotation that, at least on paper, looks better than this year’s bottom-three production would imply. While it’s certainly feasible that steps forward from young arms and health from Greene and Lodolo could provide Cincinnati with a serviceable rotation in 2024, Charlie Goldsmith of the Cincinnati Enquirer relayed comments from president of baseball operations Nick Krall today that indicate the Reds will look to add to their rotation this winter, taking advantage of an unusually deep free agent class for pitching.
Per Goldsmith, Krall told reporters that the Reds will look to add “some sort of blend of quality and quantity” to their pitching staff this winter, while noting that the club’s young arms can already provide the club with upside. Krall’s comments particularly seemed to indicate that the club is interested in pitchers who can both pitch out of the rotation and the bullpen as needed. That sort of swing arm is certainly in supply this offseason, with former Reds Michael Lorenzen and Alex Wood joined by the likes of Nick Martinez, Seth Lugo, and Jakob Junis among the arms who fit that description. Signing a swing arm could make plenty of sense for a Reds club that has several interesting young arms who figure to get looks in the rotation next year but is nonetheless clearly in need of a veteran presence who can provide reliable innings in the event of injury or under performance from the club’s youngsters.
More from around MLB’s Central divisions…
- The Cubs’ coaching staff has largely been in flux since the club brought in Craig Counsell to take over for David Ross as manager, but Maddie Lee of the Chicago Sun Times reports that at least two of Ross’s coaches will be retaining their positions under Counsell: hitting coach Dustin Kelly and pitching coach Tommy Hottovy. Kelly is the latest in a long line of Cubs hitting coaches in recent years; he became the eighth person to hold the role over the past twelve seasons upon taking the role for the 2023 campaign. Hottovy, meanwhile, is a much longer-tenured part of the Cubs organization. He first joined the organization back in 2014 before being elevated to the role of pitching coach in 2018. Counsell will be the third manager Hottovy serves under, joining both Ross and Joe Maddon.
- Tigers shortstop Javier Baez is coming off perhaps the worst season of his career in 2023, having slashed a brutal .222/.267/.325 in 547 trips to the plate this year. That was the second-worst offensive performance from a qualified regular in baseball last year by measure of wRC+; Baez’s 61 figure, which was 39% worse than league average, clocked in just barely ahead of former White Sox shortstop Tim Anderson’s 60 wRC+. Brutal as the 2023 season was for Baez, Evan Petzold of the Detroit Free Press relays that Baez is planning to spend much of his offseason stateside this winter rather than return to his home in Puerto Rico, as he typically does after the season comes to an end. During his time stateside, Petzold indicates that Baez plans to focus on strengthening his back and core muscles to recapture the athleticism that allowed him to connect for 86 home runs from 2017-2019, the fourth highest figure among qualified shortstops during that time span. If Baez, 31 next month, can successfully combat father time and recapture the power that carried his offensive profile in his youth, that would provide a massive boost to a Tigers team that finished bottom four in the majors with a team-wide wRC+ of just 89 in 2023.
Anyone remember who the top players were on the 1990 Reds?
Paul Noce led the 1990 Reds with a slash of .1000/.1000/.2000, good for an OPS+ of 443. Dude was on fire for that plate appearance.
And still didn’t win a batting title.
Barry Larkin, Eric Davis, Randy Myers, etc.
Member Chewbacca
I remember him. He was the one that sliced Darth Maul in half in the swamp on Dagobah right?
Barry Larkin, Paul O’Neil, Billy Hatcher, Tom Browning, Jose Rijo, Eric Davis, Todd Benzinger, Chris Sabo, Rob Dibble, Randy Myers, Norm Charlton, Hal Morris, Danny Jackson just to name a few.
Barry Larkin & Eric Davis come to mind. Joe Oliver caught most of the games if I’m not mistaken. But what I recall most is Sweet Lou as manager. I loved Lou Piniella.
Jose Rijo, Danny Jackson, Tom Browning, Eric Davis, Barry Larkin, Billy Hatcher, the Nasty Boys.
Oh, and the Nasty Boys in relief. They were unstoppable in the post. Not a Reds fan, but that’s what I remember.
Jose Rijo, Barry Larkin, Eric Davis, Chris Sabo, 3-headed closer monster of Rob Dibble, Norm Charleton & Randy Myers, Mariano Duncan, Paul O’Neill, Hal Morris
The only player I can recall from that team is Paul O’Neil because he drop kicked the ball perfectly to the cut off man in that years world series. Also Barry Larkin, Rob Dibble, Randy Myers and Griffey Sr. Were on that team too.
(Had to Google everything after Paul O”Neil)
Griffey Sr wasn’t on that team by the WS
He was in Seattle by mid season
Yeah, I was going by 1990 Reds lineup from Wikipedia. It didn’t say it was the world series roster.
That happened in the regular season. It was a game against the Phillies. It was in Philadelphia.
Rod Dibble? Marge Schott? Lou Piniella? Norm Charlton? Ken Griffey Sr.??
Oh bloody deuce, it was ‘Rob’ Dibble not Rod
Squad was mid to be sure
Chris Sabo and those quintessential 80’s goggles.
Jose Rijo was the star of the World Series and i still remember the special that would air from time to time that showed Rijo’s wife like 500 times (guess she was the star in her own right)
He was married to HOFer Juan Marichal’s daughter Rosie back then.
I remember him coming back to the ML after being away for 9 years and shutting the cubs out. Lmao. My dad was not happy at that. Those Cubs teams in the late 80s-early 90s weren’t very good outside of a few players.
Wait…WHO came back to the show after a 9 year hiatus?? Haha I am super intrigued.
Jose Rijo. I might be wrong on the shutout but it was before coming back his last appearance was 1995 then came back in 2001. So I don’t know where the 9 years came from. Might be a typo I was under the influence of some green tea.
Elbow issues derailed Rijo from the middle of ’95 to 2001. Interestingly he is only the second player ever to play in a game after receiving a Hall of Fame vote (Minnie Minoso is the other)
Any other Red team to make it difficult. ’90 was unexpected world series team.
Big Red machine tops most famous and probably most remembered.
1990 second.
I am not sure that any MLB team had more position stability and player longevity from 1970 through the mid 1990s. Than CIN.
I am not a Reds fan, but I have always thought it is pretty fascinating. -For the most part:
Bench>Diaz>Oliver
Perez>Dries>Esasky>Morris
Morgan>Oester>Boone
Conception>Larkin
Knight>Bell>Sabo
Geronimo>Collins>Davis
Foster>Milner>Sanders
Griffey>Parker>Oneil
Rose – 3B>2B>1B>OF
> who the top players were on the 1990 Reds?
Gino Minutelli
Keith Brown
Rosario Rodriguez
Paul Noce
Terry McGriff
Billy Bates
Alex Trevino
No love in here for Glenn Braggs?
What’s that all about?
Or Billy Hatcher?
Larkin, Davis, O Neill, Rijo, Browning, Dibble, Charlton, Myers, Hatcher, Sabo
Glen Braggs, Billy Bates, Lius Quinones, Jeff Reed, Herm Winningham, Jack Armstrong…
You can’t defeat father time but you can slow it’s effects. I wish Baez well.
Might start with his swing at everything approach
But even in his best seasons with the Cubs he was a free swinger.
True but that doesn’t mean that’s not is problem.
It is a problem, I agree. But maybe, too, he got his bag and lost some of his desire?
Easier to hide the holes in the swing at Wrigley Field when on a windy day a pop-up can sail over the LF wall than at the much more spacious Comerica Park
His approach has worked in the past. His issue is that he swings as hard as he can at every pitch. He has destroyed his core as a result.
His approach worked… but a different approach just may have brought him much more success and he could have become a complete player – but he fell in love with smokin those bombs
Barry Larkin, Eric Davis, Paulie O’Neill, the guy with the goggles, Jose Rijo, Rob Dibble, Norman Charlton and Randy Myers.
Wish I could remember the goggles guy’s name. First time I saw that on a baseball card I just about died laughing at the snorkeler with a bat. Gonna kill a shark with that? Oh, to be ten again.
Chris Sabo.
Yes! Thanks lol
Chris Sabo
I’m quite sure Sabo was one of the cheats caught using BP corked bats in an actual MLB game in the 1990/2000’s.
As a Pirates fan who spent lots of time at Three Rivers in the early nineties – I hated that team almost as much as the upstart Braves who robbed Leyland, BBonds, Van Slyke, Bonilla, Drabek of their rightful place in baseball history!
Yep, in a game in July of ’96 Sabo claimed the bat wasn’t his and points to his terrible offensive numbers that season to maintain his innocence
Sosa too… like the drugs weren’t enough… haha.
As a kid, I had a Nasty Boys poster on my bedroom wall next to my Jose Canseco 40/40 and Ripken’s The Streak.
LOL I had a Tom “Flash” Gordon poster on my bedroom wall. My favorite closer circa 1990 or so. I must have had high hopes for him because I had a ton of his rookie cards. Flash Gordon ended up being a Flash in the Pan.
The Reds should bring Sonny Gray back. It’s a perfect fit. Gray wants to play somewhere closer to his home in Tennessee, and has stated that getting the most money possible isn’t necessarily his top priority. It’s where he revitalized his career and he seemed comfortable there. He could also provide value as a mentor to their otherwise young up-and-coming rotation. The Reds biggest need is a dependable, proven top of the rotation starter that is within their price range, and their willingness to pay up for him as opposed to bringing in a mediocre #4/5 starter would signal to the fans that they are serious about trying to win again going forward.
Agree, Sonny is perhaps the best fit out there for the Reds, and probably only a 3-4 year commitment.
Most of those things also make him a good fit for the bravos.
This would be a smart idea on both sides. Gray has pitched well in Cincinnati and the Reds need a veteran stabilizer atop their rotation
Gray is too much of a large market commodity to be a reds target imo. I doubt Gray is willing to take that much of a pay cut to play for reds
He might be a large market commodity, but is he a bright lights/big city guy? He didn’t do well with the Yankees and reclaimed his career with the Reds.
He knows how to pitch in GABP and has that Vanderbilt connection with the pitching coach. Gray’s coming off a five-year contract that only had a $10MM AAV. Would he sign a $15-$20MM AAV contract for 3-4 years?
Last year was his healthiest year since 2015. Sonny would be an intriguing fit for the Reds and would immediately make them contenders.
Thanks everyone who posted all the Reds (1990) OG’s! It has been a while and I wasn’t recollecting.
Po Boy is about a year late saying they are “looking” to add to the pitching staff. The question will be if the quality of who they might add is better than the dumpster diving they did last year.
If the Reds just sign a “swing man” this offseason they are insane. Almost every starter on the team spent time on the IL last year, AND had long stretches where they were ineffective. They need to sign a high quality STARTER (or two). They only have $52 million on the books heading into the season.
I like giolito and clevinger. If they add those 2 – that’ll absorb about 325-350 innings. That’s what reds need the most !
At $52M the Reds are still about $30M under last year’s payroll, when they entered the season as a rebuilding team. They’ve run payrolls well above that in the past. And they’re not looking at super high arbitration raises for the next couple seasons either. There’s no economic reason Cincinnati can’t sign a mid-rotation starter or better.
Baez seems like he would be a good Yankee. He’d fit right in.
They can have him for free.
Even 2022’s stats would be better than last years debacle. If he plays like that again I hope they bench him and bring up Eddys Leonard or go shopping for someone new.
What did they mean by “perhaps” the worst season of his career? He has never had a season anywhere near as bad. I am hoping they give him competition in spring training, but I feel cutting Zack Short indicates they will just give him the position again. Results should matter. Instead, HARRIS will justify salary.
I say bench him if he continues to suck. He can play good defense, pinch run and cover SS, 2B and 3B. Let someone cheaper who can hit a beach ball play full time at SS to balance it out. Big salary on the bench, small salary on the field. It sucks to have all that salary sitting on the bench but it sucks more watching him soak up full time at bats, flailing at balls and striking out.
Short wasn’t a solution. They should try one of their own young guys like Leonard (who i personally dont think will stay at SS) or trade surplus pitching for a young SS who is blocked. Someone like Perdomo from Arizona who you mentioned recently, Marte in Cin or Peraza in NY. Even a minor leaguer who is realistically blocked in the big leagues like Lee in Minn, Amador in Col or even younger like Arroyo in Cincinnati.
Yeah get photo shoots of him and Stanton wearing large chains around their neck while rolling tractor tires in the off-season. Then when spring training rolls around they can both tear a ligament buttoning their shirts.
Can’t wait for Baez to show up in spring training in the best shape of his life
When Baez does, he can remind the media that “We gotta play ‘em one day at a time.”
Glad to hear Javy is taking seriously.
What has he been doing since 2019 every offseason? Certainly not working on being more selective at the plate or adjusting his approach as he ages.
You’re not turning back the clock 5 years with an off-season of back and core workouts. Maybe accept you’re aging and work on understanding the strike zone.
Javy Baez is spending his off-season practicing to wiff harder.
As much as I want Sonny Gray on the Braves the Reds would be stupid not to do whatever they can to get him. He would provide way more than just a TOR arm but also a mentor to the young rotation.
Then if I were the Reds you trade India in a package to the Pirates for Bednar.
India’s trade value is dubious at best. Forced to choose between the two, I’d sign Senzel before trading anything for India.
That’s ridiculous x.
Pirates would have little interest in India. Would gladly trade Bednar for prospects though.
I thought Hottovy and Dustin Kelly were pretty safe because I thought they both are pretty good at their jobs. Glad to hear it confirmed finally. Those were 2 important hires. It’ll be interesting to see who else Counsell hires going forward. Can’t wait. Also want to see who replaces Breslow. That’s an important hire also.
When he’s right Javy Baez is one of the most exciting players in baseball as a Cub fan we would take him back in a minute
No we wouldn’t.
He said “when he’s right” which was about 5 years ago for a few months of the season. We’d all take “good weeks Baez” on our team. The problem is finding a taker for “rest of the season Baez”, and unfortunately dumpsters don’t sign baseball players
Before you blow your flap off you might want to check out Baseball Reference it’s a great site to check out baseball statistics before making a statement that has absolutely no fact to it
I’d take him at third right now if Detroit was paying a big chunk if that salary. He was a player that could carry a team for entire month and then become the worst hitter in the league for 5 weeks. He was fun to watch.
Sold!
Back when he was with us he was the funnest player ever so I would not mind taking a chance to see if getting Javy back in front of an adoring Wrigley crowd might bring the El Mago back out. If the Tigers would take a middling prospect and eat most of the money. He’d only have to be better than Wisdom and Madrigal.
A.A must shudder when he sees the Baez name. His farm is basically doing what they were supposed to do in 22. Greene goes down on the last S.T. game. E-rod gets injured then goes AWOL. His trade at the end of S.T. was the worst ever in baseball history. I still believe Tampa knew of A.Meadows condition, but hey.
I rather see Baez just stand there and strike out if need be, than swing at the ball a foot off the plate. 100 Million dollars is no joke. He’s going to get it whether he improves or not. Let us hope his pride makes him do his best to get better. He does have speed so if he’s on he’s not a slug. Armor up, get the Jaw bone helmet, and force them to pitch in by moving closer to the plate.
The best thing about sports is there is always next year. I can’t wait for baseball to get the A.I. home plate umpire, that will help the game too.
AA was so desperate he made some really terrible decisions. I agree on the Rays, they had to know. Screw those guys, don’t ever trade with them again.
It is nice to see Baez working to get back. You have to appreciate that. Hopefully it works enough. I will take 75% of what he was before he came to Detroit. That would be a good lift.
AA focused on acquiring middle infielders in trades that they managed to let go. Now, the Tigers are stuck with his final MI blunder.
wut
waccu talkin bout willis.
The Reds know what they need to improve the team. It’s SP, and there are a bevy of options. Big question is, “Will they spend the cheese to get one (Or two?)?”.
They have an abundance of position players, so they could trade for a SP. I do like their young SP, however a solid veteran SP could help those young guys take a step forward.
NL Central remains weak, and last year’s winner (Brewers) aren’t gonna be as good this year. No reason the Reds can’t win 8 or 10 games more this year and claim the NL Central crown.
As the Phillies and D-Backs proved in 2022 and 2023 (Both were seeded sixth in the playoffs), all ya gotta do is make the October dance and you might end up in the WS.
The Reds are not going to spend money.
The Reds currently have a payroll of $31 million dollars. There are individual players that earn that. The ownership in Cincinnati is a complete disgrace. They are following the Oakland A’s model. Ruin the market for baseball and move the team to Nashville.
The only team that currently is projected to have a lower payroll than the Reds are the Baltimore Orioles. Is the ownership in Baltimore a complete disgrace also? Or are they two of the youngest teams in baseball? The Reds have had an average payroll over the last 10 years of $100 million. The Reds have spent money in the past and will spend money in the future. One snapshot in time is not an accurate picture of the franchise.
Reds should sign Matsui the LHRP from Japan at about 4 years and $32MM. They also should go after the Cuban RHP, Y. Rodriguez, who they should get for less than Matsui. Neither requires a posting fee and I believe both come with options. They should also try to sign lorenzen or Wood as a swingman. That’s enough FA pitching to sign this winter. keeping payroll low and with the prospects in the minors, Reds will have opportunities to trade for SP (if needed) next spring.
Damn it I wanted the Cubs to sign Brad ausmus to bench coach
Come on. “Meanwhile” can’t come in the middle of the sentence, you amateur. It has to come at the start.
No one has mentioned Skyline Chili as a member of those incredible Reds teams. This thread is cornbread!