I would still say Boras works for his clients. If us nobodies understand what Boras is then surely people that are counting on him for their contracts know who he is. I put it solely on the players wanting him as their agent. Listening to Soto in his first interview with the Yankees, it was obvious he just wants every last penny he can get. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Though that doesn’t mean his clients don’t get bad advice from him sometimes.
A good example of bad advice would be Michael Conforto turning down that extension from the Mets. If I remember this correctly, my apologies if I am wrong.
Solid rumor strongly suggested Conforto was offered as much as 5/$125m by the Mets—entirely credible that he would have been offered that, and apparently he still thought he could get the 7 and 8 year deals Boras had gotten for Shin-Soo Choo and two other OFers.
@padrepapi Thanks for the link. Perhaps the author is a humorist, describing the drop from 154 OPS+ to 100 as
“…he followed up a run of four consecutive seasons of excellent production with a bit of a down year right before free agency.”
Bit of a down year.
It would have been interesting to know the exact timing. At the end of April Conforto’s line was 211/.325/.324 and only picked up for more than a few days after the All-Star break.
Joe – As one small example, Boras totally screwed Varitek. He turned down a 1-year arbitration offer of approx $10.5M and ended up signing a 2-year $8M guaranteed contract.
Remember Boras works on a commission, and he has no emotional attachment to teams the way players often do.
@Joe Says…. According to Maddux (from a 2022 interview on David Cone’s podcast), NYY never officially offered. He flew up to NYC to sign and an executive had a heart attack, and a deal was never signed. So, he hopped on a plane and told his agent (Boras) to make a deal and the deal to ATL for less money was done before he landed. Maddux said, “Do your Boras stuff. I want to play in Atlanta.” (See Freddie, that’s how you speak to your agent).
“Going by the Houser/Taylor trade with the Mets,…”
Which is still holding on to “Laziest Offseason Deal” award.
It’s not that Coleman Crow is likely to realize his MOR+ potential—of course he isn’t. It’;s that even if Crow has only a 15% chance of doing so, to a rich team like the Mets the likes of Houser (4.71 projected FIP, thanks to FGDC—perhaps you’ve heard of Kyle Gibson, projecting to about 2x as many innings and a 4.47 FIP) and a 4th-5th OFer such as Taylor are invariably available for nothing but money.
In an era when stumps like Walker and Taillon are getting 4 years and 68m and 72m, it’s simply foolish to perpetrate trades such as the Crow deal.
he was available before the draft as he was not protected and no one picked him up during the draft and since he would be out all season he wouldnt even cost a roster spot ie he would have cost nothing and every team passed on him.
Essentially the brewers trade cost the mets nothing because they were letting Crowe go for free. They had quite a few roster spots available as well so they could have protected him if they chose to.
The Mets failure to hang onto Crow speaks volumes, as did their trading Crow for the wrong kind of player. A lottery ticket would have been a smarter move.
so what your saying is that only baseball america had this information and not any scout or any baseball organization only this random person that looked at it after the trade?
you keep quoting this article but ill indulge you as i actually read the article other than “intriguing prospect” but sure we can quote some stuff on there if you want
“Crow’s increased movement came with the Southern League using the pre-tacked baseball that caused spin rates around the league to skyrocket. He suffered his elbow injury before the league moved back to the regular ball, leaving unanswered questions about how much his sharp increase in the movement on his pitches was simply a product of the pre-tacked ball.”
So he looked good/intriguing with better baseballs that everyone did better with but hurt himself using regular ones. This is kinda like saying Dom Smith is a big time homerun guy when he is hitting juiced balls. His movement is based on the skyrocketted spin rate is what made him look good you even the playing field he is just another fringe guy. Which speaking of fringe, .. ….
“Crow is undersized at 6-feet, 175 pounds, showed fringy control and command in the past and now has a major arm injury on his ledger in addition to some durability concerns.”
Fringy control and command and injury issues speaks at best reliever not starter, maybe back end at best for games you just need a warm body but probably middle relief / mop up guy.
Has anyone seen what Getz was asking from the Reds for Cease. I don’t believe Cease is worth all that, and I certainly wouldn’t want Atlanta to be giving up all that for Cease.
– 2 pitching prospects
– 2 position players
The Score’s Bruce Levine reported that the Sox had asked for a four-player trade package — pitching prospects Rhett Lowder and Chase Petty, as well as two position-player prospects.
Jason Williams of the Cincinnati Enquirer sheds some more light on Chicago’s demands, writing that the White Sox wanted Lowder, Edwin Arroyo, Connor Phillips, “and at least one more prospect.”
This could mean that the Sox wanted a five-player return, with Petty and an unknown position player comprising the other two names involved. MLB Pipeline ranks Lowder, Arroyo, and Phillips within the top 68 prospects in all of baseball, while Lowder (45th) and Phillips (86th) also ranked within Baseball America’s last top 100 ranking from September.
I read that info and ChiSox ask price was exorbitant, in my opinion.
Not only that, the Reds are seeking pitching and the ChiSox were asking the Reds for pitchers from the next probable wave.
Cease won’t save Chicago in 2024-25 if they keep him. The trade is their best route. It’s early enough to ask for way high return but FA needs more play before the trade value crystallizes.
“Boras works for his clients.” – Greg Maddux would supposedly disagree.
How so? If I remember correctly, Maddux took less money from Atlanta than the Yankees were offering.
Boras was furious with his underling Greg Maddux. It sounds like the “Ohtani works for the Dodgers” thing that’s kind of an illusion in real life.
I would still say Boras works for his clients. If us nobodies understand what Boras is then surely people that are counting on him for their contracts know who he is. I put it solely on the players wanting him as their agent. Listening to Soto in his first interview with the Yankees, it was obvious he just wants every last penny he can get. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Though that doesn’t mean his clients don’t get bad advice from him sometimes.
Very similar to the Cole w the Aatros
A good example of bad advice would be Michael Conforto turning down that extension from the Mets. If I remember this correctly, my apologies if I am wrong.
He turned down a QO.
He did turn down over 100m from the Mets in early 2021… you can read about from a previous MLBTR post:
mlbtraderumors.com/2022/03/michael-conforto-turned…
Solid rumor strongly suggested Conforto was offered as much as 5/$125m by the Mets—entirely credible that he would have been offered that, and apparently he still thought he could get the 7 and 8 year deals Boras had gotten for Shin-Soo Choo and two other OFers.
Had Jake Arrieta turn down 127m from Cubs. Was asking 175. Ended up getting 75m from Phillies then lost his arm. Left 52m on the table
@padrepapi Thanks for the link. Perhaps the author is a humorist, describing the drop from 154 OPS+ to 100 as
“…he followed up a run of four consecutive seasons of excellent production with a bit of a down year right before free agency.”
Bit of a down year.
It would have been interesting to know the exact timing. At the end of April Conforto’s line was 211/.325/.324 and only picked up for more than a few days after the All-Star break.
Joe – As one small example, Boras totally screwed Varitek. He turned down a 1-year arbitration offer of approx $10.5M and ended up signing a 2-year $8M guaranteed contract.
Remember Boras works on a commission, and he has no emotional attachment to teams the way players often do.
@Joe Says…. According to Maddux (from a 2022 interview on David Cone’s podcast), NYY never officially offered. He flew up to NYC to sign and an executive had a heart attack, and a deal was never signed. So, he hopped on a plane and told his agent (Boras) to make a deal and the deal to ATL for less money was done before he landed. Maddux said, “Do your Boras stuff. I want to play in Atlanta.” (See Freddie, that’s how you speak to your agent).
nj.com/yankees/2022/01/how-a-heart-attack-led-to-g…
Interesting. That’s the first time I’ve heard that. Thanks for sharing.
“That’s how you speak to your agent!” LOL!! Yep…Gotta remind them who is boss sometimes!
He took the same money I believe, but he liked the Atlanta lifestyle better.
Who wouldn’t?
Thank you for referring to the angels as Anaheim
Fragile ego? Can’t stand a team using its geographical/market location/historical name if it isn’t located within said city/county.
We don’t want em ♀️
Why are the questions always so stupid? Someone asked if Jose Ramirez would be traded another asked if the Jays should tank? My goodness
Did you submit “smarter/better” questions? How many people do you think were in this Christmas chat?
It is always that way no matter the day
“Ya can’t fix stupid.”
“Going by the Houser/Taylor trade with the Mets,…”
Which is still holding on to “Laziest Offseason Deal” award.
It’s not that Coleman Crow is likely to realize his MOR+ potential—of course he isn’t. It’;s that even if Crow has only a 15% chance of doing so, to a rich team like the Mets the likes of Houser (4.71 projected FIP, thanks to FGDC—perhaps you’ve heard of Kyle Gibson, projecting to about 2x as many innings and a 4.47 FIP) and a 4th-5th OFer such as Taylor are invariably available for nothing but money.
In an era when stumps like Walker and Taillon are getting 4 years and 68m and 72m, it’s simply foolish to perpetrate trades such as the Crow deal.
Crow was available in the rule 5 draft
But not at the point he was dealt. Is there a purpose to this?
he was available before the draft as he was not protected and no one picked him up during the draft and since he would be out all season he wouldnt even cost a roster spot ie he would have cost nothing and every team passed on him.
Essentially the brewers trade cost the mets nothing because they were letting Crowe go for free. They had quite a few roster spots available as well so they could have protected him if they chose to.
Oh, dear god. Untangling that so isn’t worth it.
which means jack was proven wrong and cant respond? got it
@Roll No reason Baseball American can’t educate you, though. It is Christmas, after all:
“Why Is Coleman Crow A ‘Fascinating Target?’ Breaking Down The Mets-Brewers Trade”
baseballamerica.com/stories/why-is-coleman-crow-a-…
The Mets failure to hang onto Crow speaks volumes, as did their trading Crow for the wrong kind of player. A lottery ticket would have been a smarter move.
so what your saying is that only baseball america had this information and not any scout or any baseball organization only this random person that looked at it after the trade?
you keep quoting this article but ill indulge you as i actually read the article other than “intriguing prospect” but sure we can quote some stuff on there if you want
“Crow’s increased movement came with the Southern League using the pre-tacked baseball that caused spin rates around the league to skyrocket. He suffered his elbow injury before the league moved back to the regular ball, leaving unanswered questions about how much his sharp increase in the movement on his pitches was simply a product of the pre-tacked ball.”
So he looked good/intriguing with better baseballs that everyone did better with but hurt himself using regular ones. This is kinda like saying Dom Smith is a big time homerun guy when he is hitting juiced balls. His movement is based on the skyrocketted spin rate is what made him look good you even the playing field he is just another fringe guy. Which speaking of fringe, .. ….
“Crow is undersized at 6-feet, 175 pounds, showed fringy control and command in the past and now has a major arm injury on his ledger in addition to some durability concerns.”
Fringy control and command and injury issues speaks at best reliever not starter, maybe back end at best for games you just need a warm body but probably middle relief / mop up guy.
Has anyone seen what Getz was asking from the Reds for Cease. I don’t believe Cease is worth all that, and I certainly wouldn’t want Atlanta to be giving up all that for Cease.
– 2 pitching prospects
– 2 position players
The Score’s Bruce Levine reported that the Sox had asked for a four-player trade package — pitching prospects Rhett Lowder and Chase Petty, as well as two position-player prospects.
Jason Williams of the Cincinnati Enquirer sheds some more light on Chicago’s demands, writing that the White Sox wanted Lowder, Edwin Arroyo, Connor Phillips, “and at least one more prospect.”
This could mean that the Sox wanted a five-player return, with Petty and an unknown position player comprising the other two names involved. MLB Pipeline ranks Lowder, Arroyo, and Phillips within the top 68 prospects in all of baseball, while Lowder (45th) and Phillips (86th) also ranked within Baseball America’s last top 100 ranking from September.
mlbtraderumors.com/2023/12/details-on-dylan-cease-…
I read that info and ChiSox ask price was exorbitant, in my opinion.
Not only that, the Reds are seeking pitching and the ChiSox were asking the Reds for pitchers from the next probable wave.
Cease won’t save Chicago in 2024-25 if they keep him. The trade is their best route. It’s early enough to ask for way high return but FA needs more play before the trade value crystallizes.