There hasn’t been much on the Dylan Cease front since early December, when reports suggested that the White Sox were going to wait until the free agent pitching market had become a bit clearer before again weighing offers for the right-hander. The Reds were known to be one of the clubs interested in Cease, though 670 The Score’s Bruce Levine reported that the Sox had asked for a four-player trade package — pitching prospects Rhett Lowder and Chase Petty, as well as two position-player prospects.
Jason Williams of the Cincinnati Enquirer sheds some more light on Chicago’s demands, writing that the White Sox wanted Lowder, Edwin Arroyo, Connor Phillips, “and at least one more prospect.” This could mean that the Sox wanted a five-player return, with Petty and an unknown position player comprising the other two names involved. MLB Pipeline ranks Lowder, Arroyo, and Phillips within the top 68 prospects in all of baseball, while Lowder (45th) and Phillips (86th) also ranked within Baseball America’s last top 100 ranking from September.
New White Sox GM Chris Getz has been open about the fact that he is willing to discuss any player on his team’s roster in trade negotiations, though some obviously come at a much higher price tag than others. Luis Robert Jr. may be the only player close to truly untouchable, and Cease might not be far off, though the two have differing levels of team control. Robert’s contract contains two club options that control his services through the 2027 season, while Cease has only two more years of arbitration eligibility remaining before he can hit free agency in the 2025-26 offseason.
Still, two years of a frontline pitcher like Cease is still quite an asset — either for a White Sox team trying to get on track after a disastrous season, or as a trade chip the Sox can use to reload the roster for both now and the future. The Reds are a natural trade partner on paper, given how Cincinnati is in sore need of pitching help and is also deep in position-player prospects. Cincinnati was known to have interest in Chicago’s pitching even prior to the All-Star break, so it is safe to assume Cease has been on the Reds’ radar for a while, at least in some fashion.
Because the White Sox are known to be targeting pitching, however, the Sox and Reds might not quite line up as smoothly on a Cease trade as it might seem. Obviously any team would be hesitant about moving three of its top-rated pitching prospects, and in particular, the Reds would be wary about cleaning out their pitching assets when they have so much of an surplus in another area (the infield) in their farm system. Speculatively speaking, the Reds might be more willing to consider a package of Arroyo, another position player, and one pitcher for Cease, yet it isn’t surprising why Cincinnati would balk at moving at least two of Phillips, Lowder, and Petty on top of what is already a substantial return of infield talent.
There isn’t really any harm in aiming high, of course, as Getz has plenty of offseason left to continue to explore other potential trade packages involving Cease. The fact that the Dodgers have already nabbed two of the top free agent (Yoshinobu Yamamoto) and trade (Tyler Glasnow) targets on the market has left a lot of other teams still in sore need of rotation help, so it certainly seems possible that Cease might be wearing another uniform by Opening Day.
It is also too early to rule the Reds out of any further Cease talks, even if that rumored four-for-one or five-for-one seems like a bridge too far. Cincinnati has been aggressive in adding to its rotation and bullpen by signing Nick Martinez and Emilio Pagan, and bolstered its infield picture even further by signing Jeimer Candelario. The addition of Candelario seemingly makes it more likely that the Reds could move an infielder in some manner of trade, whether for Cease or another pitcher.
norcalblue
We’ll of course see if Reds blink; but, I think WS are delusional. Declining metrics, high risk pitcher.
Very Barry
If Cincinnati wants to compete with the Big Boys …… Then they need to be willing to pay a Big Boy price for talent.
elly de la burrow
No, they’d be better off developing the pieces they have. I predict the White Sox are overvaluing one of their only decent pieces and will likely keep him for two more years while they underperform and then get nothing for him when he walks.
Alan Horn
Totally agree. Keep your prospects and develop them rather than giving them away for a hugely overpriced pitcher who could blow out his arm on any pitch. If anything, sign or trade for a less expensive pitcher..
Prospectnvstr
Very Barry. If Cincinnati really “wants to compete with the Big Boys” then they shouldn’t trade off 2-3 promising arms that will be under control for 6-7 yrs each for 2 years of Dylan Cease.
Franklin
Absolutely correct
stymeedone
The big boys wouldn’t pay that ridiculous ask. Two years of Cease has value, but two solid prospects should do it.
SalaryCapMyth
Then I guess the Reds need to find big boy options for that big boy price because I don’t blame the Reds for not paying that ugly price.
ShannonL
They should have paid a big boy price on the free agent market if the prospect asking price for a top of the rotation pitcher is this high. Unfortunately they have spent a lot of money by reds standards for players they did t necessarily need.
SalaryCapMyth
I would pay that price for TOR that I trust to be a tore but Cease isn’t that.
richardc
Not to mention Cease has pitched the most innings over the past four years.
With his declining stats, albeit only a year, it could be a warning sign.
Either way, it is way too much of a risk for AA and the Braves to give up Grissom, AJ Smith-Shawver, and Hurston Waldrep for Cease.
I’m glad AA didn’t pull the trigger, the White Sox are asking for WAY TOO MUCH!!
On that note, Getz is doing his job, and he should be asking for the moon and the stars from interested teams. It is wise for Getz to just see who gets desperate enough to make a splash and blinks first.
Even if they go into the season with Cease, unless he just completely bombs or gets hurt, teams will be all over him at the trade deadline. That’s where teams typically have to pay interest to acquire their final pieces for playoff/championship runs.
Personally, I think the Sox should trade Cease before the season starts, in order to avoid him possibly losing value. Either way though, they’ll get some team to bite, and I’m betting they’ll probably still get maybe 3 out a team’s top 10 prospects.
C Yards Jeff
In general, IMO, the owner has given Getz the okay to move anyone and everyone to get payroll down to rebuild territory. He got veterans Stassi, Fedde (innings eater) and DeJong all on the cheap. There’s rumblings of interest in Roberts and Jimenez (sp?). Regret on the Andrew (DFA him) Benintindini (sp?) deal . And if anyone is interested in Moncondesi (sp?), they’re listening.
elly de la burrow
Yeah but being too depserperate and greedy is going to cost Getz. I suspect they won’t move these pieces before it’s too late and they’ll get nothing to show for them, failing to do anything while they have them and then having them walk for nothing. If the White Sox don’t want to squander a chance to rebuild, they’ll need to return to planet earth before it’s too late
C Yards Jeff
@Ellydlb, yep, agreed, risky. That said, if you’re an owner that just lost 100 + games with a roster payroll that totaled 140 + mil and with attendance in the bottom 3rd of league, is there a better time to blow things up?
Fariah1817
That package that got you a middling reliever with a 5 ERA was nowhere near enough to land Cease. They are rightfully asking for a ton. Prospects are great but many never pan out.
David Barista
Cease will continue to hold trade value whether or not he is moved this offseason. The leverage of the situation is that the White Sox get to hold out. High demand scarce supply. No logical explanation for accepting less.
rond-2
Yes indeed it’s a warning sign, one trending towards injury.
CaseyAbell
Basically, the White Sox were saying, give us your farm system for Cease. Not too surprising that the Reds balked.
tangerinepony
Same reason why Burnes hasn’t been traded yet. Brewers want another teams farm system in exchange plus they’ll throw in a case or 2 of Miller lite
Alan Horn
The Reds would be absolute fools to come anywhere near that deal.
titanic struggle
Completely agree!
Very Barry
The White Sox have a history of getting teams a World Series ring with these deals.
Adam Eaton for Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning. Eaton was injured 1st year, and a key component to a ring the next year.
Chris Sale in a deal that included Michael Kopech and Yoan Moncada got the Boston Red Sox a ring with Sale leading the way.
Jose Quintana for Dylan Cease and Eloy Jimenez didn’t get the Cubs a ring, but he was ultimately very good for the Cubs.
The White Sox drained the elite prospects out of all of these teams systems with those deals. All these guys were considered elite at the time of the trades.
elly de la burrow
Yeah I think the Sox are going to wind up keeping him for a couple years, accomplishing nothing and then getting nothing when he walks. It’s like a master class in wasting assets
Hired Gun 23
Red Stockings fan(s)…you willing to give up what is being suggested for 2 years of Cease?
cr4
Obviously no. Lowder and Phillips are big league ready and Arroyo and Petty are very very promising. And the rumored 5th player was said to be Carlos Jorge who easily could be a top 100 prospect by the end of the year this year. So no not even close
Big whiffa
Lowder is big league ready ?
ChetLemonaid
I mean I’m Big League Ready™️. I’m just not Big League Talented™️.
Mikey P
Comment of the year.
earmbrister
Lowder could very well be in MLB by the end of this coming season.
THEY LIVE!!!
©️opy that ChetLemonaid
THEY LIVE!!!
Thanks Mikey P‼️
Alan Horn
True. Trading has become as expensive as free agency for the bigger names. Let the large markets blow money on them and still not win(Can you say Dodger and Yankees).
oscar gamble
Phillips is going to have to walk quite a bit less batters to be big league ready
elly de la burrow
No, and I think this story is more about the White Sox missing another opportunity to rebuild by not understanding realistic values.
David Barista
2 years of control is both trade leverage and a contributing factor to the value of the asset. Take it or leave it is a position of power afforded only to the White Sox in this situation. The sense of urgency to win is on the Reds and any other competitive team in MLB.
stymeedone
Reds and Orioles are the two teams that can offer young offensive players in trade. That is a rare commodity also. The Reds and Orioles players will still have full value in a year, but Cease will become a rental. Pressure is on the White Sox to move quickly, or lose value.
Joel P
The Reds have a lot of pitching they could trade that doesn’t have to include Lowder or Petty. They have a lot of big league ready guys that won’t really get the opportunity to start unless they are dealt. And the White Sox have a lot of opportunity to give.
jimrad
If the Reds have a lot of big league ready pitching, why are they trying to trade for Cease ?
Joel P
Because they are trying to contend and want and need someone who is more of a sure thing.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
Personally I think the White Sox did pretty good in the Bummer trade. It will be interesting what Cease returns. He seems good as gone.
THEY LIVE!!!
Must be a Braves fan or a Dodger hater.
just_thinkin
The White Sox are an unserious organization.
Aiden Awe
They need to trade Cease. If they don’t their playoff chances go down. White Sox can’t stall out his contract.
Cincyfan85
No thanks. Pass. Just trade for Shane Bieber. He should be significantly cheaper.
Randymack64
Rather trade for Framber Valdez…
Wire to wire 2024
Rather trade for luzardo
Big whiffa
IMO, order of availability for those 3 are luzardo, Valdez then Bieber. No clue why the Indians would even consider trading him
Marte for luzardo makes sense for both teams and they got a history of trades
Wire to wire 2024
I think it would take more than that but I hope I’m wrong
HBan22
Luzardo is the one I’d want most out of all of them. Three years of control, only 26 years old and arguably the best pure stuff out of any of them. He’s somewhat low key been a top of the rotation guy over the past two seasons, and unlike the White Sox with Cease, the Marlins don’t seem to be asking for an entire farm system for him. Give me Luzardo over Cease all day.
titanic struggle
Yeah.. I see that..
Michael E
Bieber’s k/9 has dropped steadily past few years. He’s now just an SP3- with SP4/5 innings-eater downside looming. AVOID unless it takes just one lottery ticket A ball prospect.
The Indians are VERY wise to consider trading him now before his value is completely gone (like Tampa does quite often).
Bieber K/9 past 5 years:
9.3 (2018)
10.9 (2019)
14.2 (2020, shortened covid year, eye-popping stat)
12.5 (2021)
8.9 (2022)
7.5 (2023)
6.3 (est 2024)
sub 6 (2025 and beyond,
Say hello to Madison Baumgartner, Corey Kluber and Noah Syndergaard.
ShannonL
Here is the thing with that. We have 2 about the same age with “great pure stuff” but right now I would say 75% chance Greene and Lodolo never become more than back of the rotation pitchers. Valdez is a proven type of pitcher we need.
I want a top of the rotation pitcher as much as any reds fan and was screaming on these boards in July to trade for one but we didn’t and missed the post season by 2 games. However it would be foolish to give what the white Sox are asking for cease.
What we should have done instead of signing Martinez ($13 million a year for 2 years), pagan ($8 million a year for 2 years) and candelario ($15 million a year for 3 years) we should have signed both snell ($25 million a year for 6 years projected) and Rodríguez who signed for $20 million a year for 4 years.
We still need 2 top of the rotation starters to be competitive and if we have already spent our budget without one then that is a mistake. Can’t make it worse by being desperate and making a bad trade to get one though.
In no way should we be giving up to pitching prospects to get a top pitcher. Collier and arroyo are fine to trade. Top prospects but at positions we don’t need. Pitchers like Richardson and stoudt are also ok to give up because from what I have seen neither are going to be top of the rotation types. Lowder, Phillips and petty should be off limits.
titanic struggle
Framer would be good, but you’d be giving up more than what they want for Cease..
BRM Fan
Media on both sides of this story, but I wonder which teams giving details. Sox to show what they expect from anyone else, or Reds to mock the terms. If trading like-for-like, pitchers for pitchers, it gets a more negotiable. Or, add MLB talent (i.e. India) and subtract some prospects.
As is, far too one-sided in Sox favor.
Big whiffa
Reds had to leak that Lowder petty offer. White sox should have took that.
Gwynning
Agreed with Whiffa- CWS don’t have to air this laundry, you just need to call them to understand the wind direction.
stymeedone
It was an ask by the WS, not an offer by the Reds.
This one belongs to the Reds
We see why the Cease market has ceased now.
Ubaldo Jimenez
The White Sox are a joke. They are acting like Cease’s arm is plated in gold.
Aiden Awe
Lol, White Sox are a bad organization sure. They won’t trade Cease if they don’t get a haul.
deweybelongsinthehall
The team with the pitcher another wants, should ask for the moon and then some. The unanswered question is what was actually offered,
Ubaldo Jimenez
The team that sucks should recognize that they can improve their franchise in a mutually beneficial trade by not being egregious and greedy on what is, at this point, a flyer with two years of control.
Cardsfanatik redux
Cease is far from a flyer. I’m not saying the Reds should trade all this for him, but the Sox SHOULD ask for it. prospects are just that… prospects. They’ve proven nothing yet. And a Reds fan calling the Sox the team that sucks is just down right hilarious. One decent season and all of a sudden they’re a dynasty.
deweybelongsinthehall
You always ask for more than you expect to get back. You never know what the other is thinking unless you ask.
Ubaldo Jimenez
And they will continue to plumb the depths of the weakest division in baseball as a result of that decision.
Heinouanus
4.38 era pitcher and they’re asking for 4 top 100 prospects… put the crack pipe down
jimrad
LOOK AT THE MONEY THE DODGERS PAID GLASNOW.
cash3w
Given Glassnow’s durability, Cease seems likely to eclipse the potential return with the extra year of control. I would love to have him on the Braves, but not at the rumored cost they’re looking to acquire. Not to mention, the Braves’ farm system is not as deep as it used to be.
Simm
Not really since an extension was required
stymeedone
No, Glasnow had to agree to the extension to get that return back. With only two years of control, Cease should return less.
Hughjass39
Cease hasnt missed a start since 2019. Glasnows career high iss 121 ip. The best ability iss durability. I think that will add to his value. 5 years of Glasnow while hes available for 2 1/2
cash3w
Good point, but is the extension player or team-friendly? Given his track record, I’d say player-friendly. But hey, if he can be your #3 or 4 in 2025 with that rotation, maybe it’s a gamble that makes more sense for the Dodgers than the Braves.
CP77
They ask, if someone blinks well too bad for them.
Ubaldo Jimenez
More like, if someone asks, the conversation coming back from a loser franchise should at least take discussion seriously and not ask for the moon, stars, and three surrounding planets in return
Very Barry
Joke???? I remember the White Sox sending Jose Quintana to the Cubs for Cease and Eloy Jimenez.
Do you remember Adam Eaton? The White Sox got Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez and Dane Dunning back from the Nationals.
Somebody is gonna pay a big price for Cease. The White Sox will get what they want sooner or later.
Whifff
Very has the smartest comment on this article. Guys like Cease are a scarce commodity. Scarcity equals high acquisition cost.
Michael E
Hold up a bit on these CWS opinions. We have no idea what is being asked or offered or turned down at this point. Most likely this “rumor’ has little basis and is just part of bargaining power.
In the end, barring idiocy (it is all around), Cease will probably be traded for one teams 2nd or 3rd best prospect, another near the end of the top 10 and a lottery ticket Rookie Ball prospect.
If they get better than that then CWS GM did very well, if the only get one top 10 prospect from another team or fails to make a trade this year, then he did poorly
cguy
The Reds best window of contention is 2025-27. Trading any of Lowder, Petty, Phillips, or Arroyo would damage that opportunity. Hard pass. Maybe White Sox become reasonable by mid-2024 or trade Cease elsewhere. Reds don’t necessarily need a TOR SP right now. A middle rotation piece works fine if Greene, Lodolo, Abbott, Ashcraft, & Williamson are healthy. They need another innings eater who can keep the score close.
Wire to wire 2024
Agreed, just sign giolito or stroman and call it a day
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
That would require Castellini to open the wallet. Good luck with that….
deweybelongsinthehall
The Reds could be the Orioles of 23 next season. Given a good young team with a deep farm will likely have 40 man roster issues next season, you work out a trade now or at the deadline. Is Cease the right player is the other question?
This one belongs to the Reds
The Reds ACTUAL contention was in 2023 and they blew it. No guarantee it happens again with the pitching they have, especially when they start trading assets in year five starting with Diaz, Stephenson, India if he is still there, Lodolo, Ashcraft, on down the line. Face it, the Reds sit on their hands for what they really need while most of the rest of their competitors are not. They could have hit the FA market for better back end of the bullpen and a veteran starting pitcher, bypassing the need to desl at all.
Any veteran with a track record is a TOR pitcher with this group. None of them are in that class yet, and none have rely made that step yet. Two guys that are most ballyhooed are 4-5 inning pitchers. That’s a cold dose of reality. The hitting prospects were far agead of the pitching prospects.
But the White Sox won’t be getting such a return for Cease. The Astros for Valdez, maybe, but I would have a hard time going there even.
Petty and Arroyo are probably tradeable with what is around them at their experience level if they went the trade route but none of the rest. There are a whole lot of second tier prospects besides that will have nowhere to play. It might take some negotiation and creativity skills that the front office doesn’t seem to posess when it come to acquiring established major league talent.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
I would like to see somebody like Bryce Miller be traded to the Reds for a couple position players like Steer and Encarnacion-Strand, or Marte and India, or some sort of combination. Saw Miller is working on a splitter this winter and it looks filthy! M’s should really hang on to him, but they do have needs, and to get quality, you must dangle quality.
Dbird777
Lmfao nice try Mz fan
octavian8
Have to disagree with your assessment of the Reds window to contend. They should be highly competitive in the next five years. I hope they can add a quality veteran starter to lead this young staff but Cease has question marks and the asking price is way too high. Lowder has a higher ceiling than Cease. Let’s say we make that trade and then Cease continues his digression and requires surgery. Keep and develop our top shelf youngsters
Michael E
Agreed, these upcoming 2nd and 3rd year youngsters should get a bit better as a whole. The key is the hitters dropping their K% a few points and suddenly they’ll be a top 1/3 offensive team with solid young pitching with upside to become well above average. Yes, lots of ifs, but youth makes it more reasonble to become fact than teams with 30 years olds banking on improvements.
stymeedone
Reds can only fit so many position players in the lineup. They have an abundance but don’t have the pitching they need. Windows are six years, and the clock is ticking. Trade.the excess for needs but find the right match.
ShannonL
Smart man. Yes missing the postseason by 2 games means the reds window opened in 2023. Health was not on our side but even if it was another 20 starts of Lodolos 5 + era and another 10 starts of Greene with 5 of them 6 innings 0 runs 1 hit and 5 others 2 innings 8 runs would not have made a difference had they been healthy.
The free agent signings they have made so far seems like the window might close sooner than it should. Our offense was good enough for a post season run last year especially for infield hitters (India, McClain, steer) and all under control for several more years. Marte is going to be good as well. Candelario is a good player and we probably got a good deal with him but does it really improve our team since he is likely playing over guys that he is not much better than. For his contract plus Martinez we could have spent that money on Blake snell or sonny gray either of which would have improved us much more.
I have no idea what the payroll budget is for next year. Might be $150 million in which case we could go out and sign snell and Montgomery and be competitive for a while but I doubt that is what it is. More likely we are now in a situation where we have to make a bad trade to get someone like cease or go forward hoping Greene and lodolo can become top of the rotation pitchers, neither of which have been yet.
DockEllisDee
@cguy couldn’t have said it better myself. Gotta know when to hold ’em
This one belongs to the Reds
If cguy had his way, the only move the Reds would make in the next ten years would be in the bathroom while they keep missing the playoffs and they have to break up a third team in 15 years.
cguy
No, I just recogize that Krall is the best Reds GM since Krivsky (maybe even earlier) and support his efforts. I actually was almost as ludicrously critical as you are during the Joketty era. But have moved on- with greener pastures.
Alan Horn
Agree.
Franklin Nitty
Imagine your team telling you yea we will be competitive in 2 years but come on town to the stadium and pay full price. You can absolutely compete every year in baseball. Poor Reds fans have been fed crap for so long they make excuses FOR their abuser.
SFBay314
How are the giants not in this guy or Corbin Burns. Trading for talent is going to be a better path for us vs Free agency. Let’s do it. Get some pitching and strike out those dodgers.
THEY LIVE!!!
@SFBay314
Expect the Giants to re-sign Joc Pederson instead and Zach Greinke too.
For Love of the Game
Oh that hurts!
THEY LIVE!!!
Not as much as the Jack Flaherty signing though.
Michael E
They’ll trade for Bieber, give up too much, extend him and watch him turn into Kluber or Bumgarner. He’s fading fast (look at those K/9 nnumbers dropping).
I tease, at least the Giants won a few WS titles past 20 years. My Reds won the coveted bobble-head giveaway championship.
ponytail01
Fans don’t realize that most prospects never make the big leagues. I hope the Sox keep Cease.
Aiden Awe
Yes but stalling Cease’s contract worsens Sox playoff chances even if Sox compete in 2025/2026. That’s what I see from Chris Getz.
CP77
You keep your prospects for two reasons. 1 to build a foundation for the future or to sell them high to another team. Cease was a prospect in the Jose Quintana to the Cubs trade, along with Eloy Jimenez
iverbure
This is why no gms on baseball have ponytails, none of them are dumb enough to think like that
THEY LIVE!!!
If you were Dylan Cease wouldn’t you wish to be traded❓
Very Barry
They won’t be able to pay him when he hits free agency, and won’t be able to win big enough before then.
AM21
Reds should absolutely move on from him – he’s ridiculously overrated.
Aiden Awe
He’s been ok during his whole career minus 2022. Sure your right about inconsistency.
titanic struggle
Injuries have killed JI.. damn shame actually. If a team needed and loved that hustle, and drive that he gives..that’s balls. I want him on my team.
THEY LIVE!!!
Reds aren’t getting anyone of significance. Baseball owners have decided the Pirates will win the NL Central. It’s their turn through the barrel. The Refs might re-sign Votto though & he hits 40HR but only if he defers his 1 year contract over 30 years.
Crash_n_burn
Arroyo and another top prospect is enough as is, more then that is overkill.
But of course the Sox would ask for the moon and stars, but damn they want the galaxy with it as well.
Big whiffa
I just wouldn’t trade arroyo if I’m reds. He has elite d at ss and can hit for power so be crazy to trade that dude at age 20
THEY LIVE!!!
Is Bronson Arroyo still pitching❓
ChasingTime
Perhaps if the Sox had included a nice dinner, movie, and flowers before their request for fornication, it might have swung the tide.
Just hope the Reds stand firm with “no means no”.
Ignorant Son-of-a-b
Fornication is a carnal sin, must we go there on Christmas Eve ??
jorge78
The White Sox are playing
5-D chess…..
sufferforsnakes
Dang, he’s not that good, people.
Whifff
The White Sox had a historically bad defense last year. Most of their pitchers saw their ERA get creamed. Atlanta was smart enough to see through that and go after Bummer.
Very Barry
Added Reynaldo Lopez and are involved with Cease. Clearly, Atlanta likes a lot of what they see with the White Sox staff.
jimrad
Might be true with a lot of Sox pitchers, but not in Bummers case.
jorge78
I wonder if Candelario will turn the next Moustakas…..
FartGod
Reds would be smart to keep Petty. He’s going to be a solid starter, probably not an ace, but at least a 3. They need a pitcher like him, the dude doesn’t give up homeruns and limits walks.
ksoze
The Reds traded 2 years of Gray for Petty alone. There is no way I’d include him in a trade.
Phillips yes, Arroyo yes, Jorge yes, Petty no, Lowder No
That might be a bit of an overpay to add Jorge in it but middle infield depth isn’t much of an issue for the Reds.
FartGod
Jorge is an overpay. Phillips, Arroyo, and Hinds. Thats what is would offer.
Or Blake Dunn with India and some combo of one or two of those guys
But I think Dunn is going to be pretty good.
YEP
Ok what about Phillips, Arroyo, Jorge, Carlos Sanchez, and Adam Serwinowski?
BigFred
And throws 100+ mph.
THEY LIVE!!!
I thought Tom Petty died❓
steelerbravenation
That’s a crazy demand for that level of demand now I hope the Braves don’t even engage.
Someone will want Grissom @ the deadline.
Sign Giolito for a year with an option
King Floch
That ask is absurd, the ChiSox are absolutely delusional if they actually think they are going to get that kind of return for 2 years of Cease, who isn’t exactly a surefire TOR SP by any stretch.
Simm
Cease isn’t worth anywhere near that ask. Even prime kershaw wouldn’t be worth that and cease is a fraction of that.
3 top 100 prospects and others.
To all those that say they don’t have to trade him. No they don’t but they aren’t winning and his value will only go down. Plus if he has another season like last season he will barely be worth his arb number.
Dorothy_Mantooth
Prime Kershaw would require more than 3 Top 100 prospects! They are called prospects for a reason.
TrumboRedux
“They are called prospects for a reason” LMAO
deweybelongsinthehall
Mad Dog was the first I heard say “prospects are suspects until proven otherwise”.
Franklin Nitty
Best pitcher of his generation in his prime not worth 3 top 100 prospects. Thats a good one. Say that again out loud. Absolutely ridiculous.
reno24
One of Lowder/Petty, Arroyo and a low A Ball prospect is realistic. White Sox are out of their minds with the current ask
deweybelongsinthehall
How do you get to your “fair offer”? If the Sox asked for that, your instinct would be to offer half, etc.
dhud
Five top 100 prospects is completely unprecedented and thus insane
dhud
Ok I read that wrong.
Still a steep ask certainly
Prunella Vulgaris
Because something is unprecedented, it must be insane?
ksoze
Usually yes. Cease isn’t exactly an ace, so hell yes.
schellis 2
Cease isn’t as bad as he was this past year nor was he as good as he was in 2022. If Sox were to take arroyo one of the arms and one or two lesser (not org top 10) then this gets done. Cease is not a prime scherzer with two years of control.
websoulsurfer
The White Sox ASKED for that and didn’t get it. They won’t either.
MLB Top 100 Commenter
I just saw that Shohei Ohtani gave Joe Kelly’s wife a silver Porsche. She had posted lots of messages encouraging him to join the Dodgers and offering up her husband’s number # 17 gear. These guys just live in a different world then the rest of us. Wow!
TrumboRedux
Saw that too Manny haha I would bet that Shohei has about $200-250mil to his name already. Liquid. He probably had one of his people call the dealership and it was sent right over to her. No handshake or paperwork even done yet. Just a few quick words on the phone. Different world for sure haha
NashvilleJeff
Merry Christmas Trumbo. Hope Santa doesn’t leave a piker in your stocking, lol.
TrumboRedux
Heeeyyy Nashville!! Thanks old buddy you too!! And if Mr. Claus tries to scuttle down my chimney with a Piker in tow, I might have to turn on the fireplace.. No Pikers allowed on Xmas!!
Mojo37
btw Shohei is a brand ambassador for Porsche.
TrumboRedux
Hahaha Nice. Pretty sure it was free then. Porsche got at least a couple mil of publicity out of it. Win-Win.
Moneyballer
Make the sox keep Cease and watch him bomb in 2024. Sox are so far away from contending its laughable. The royals will not be at the bottom of this division next year, mark it down!
Aiden Awe
Not far away but maybe in 2026 they can contend.
Garett
He is a free agent in 2026
Aiden Awe
IK but the white Sox should be aiming for 2025/2026 to compete.
Big whiffa
Reds should throw in marte as the forth player to ws and ws throw in Robert.
Lowder Phillips arroyo marte for cease and Robert. Doubt ws could get 4 better players
Dbird777
Nah. They can have Jorge and a guy like Rece Hinds before you give them Marte. That package should already be enough for both Cease and Robert
Kelly Wunsch N' Munch
Lol! Speaking of delusional!
Bobcastelliniscat
The Reds gave up Luis Castillo for Marte and others. I doubt they will turn around and trade him for a lesser pitcher.
geno711
This almost feels the same as when you thought that the Rays would trade Randy Arozarena. I told you sure that was always a possibility but only if it was a truly huge package for Randy.
You are doing the same thing with Luis Roberts Jr. Acting like you can get both Cease and Roberts with current prospects.
There can always be a trade for the two but ultimately for two currently big players the Reds would need more and better prospects than you are mentioning here.
Roberts is a gem and probably would take all 4 prospects for him alone if not more.
Big whiffa
I’ll stand by that statement. Arroyo marte Lowder and Phillips is as good as a return that they’ll get for Robert and cease combined. You’d need a couple high floor guys to even out the 3-1 offers so throw in lyon Richardson and Blake Dunn.
Buzzz Killington
I understand asking high to start negotiations but lol.
theathlete
The White Sox are trying to address all of their organizational flaws with one trade. They couldn’t move Cease at the deadline, and hopefully won’t move him now unless they’re willing to deal in reality instead of fantasy.
Bobcastelliniscat
He may also be injured at the deadline. I still think he will be traded this winter, but not likely to the Reds.
Michael E
This is my big beef with “wait till the deadline” trading. So many times a top trade chip is hobbled in July and suddenly no trade value.
If you plan to trade someone, trade them NOW, while healthy, not later, hoping to pry one more so-so prospect from another team only to get nothing at all. Dumb.
DeepDownSouth
The only thing fans should read into on this proposal by the White Sox is they not really wanting to trade Cease unless the haul is considerable. IMO it’s just a rumor anyway
BPrice's 77 F-Bombs
Frigging ridiculous WS proposal. Not saying the F word ever again!
Balk
Merry Christmas to all you baseball fanatics out there!
wvredsfan
Merry Christmas to you too
ShawnM 2
Dylan Cease stats for 2023. 4.58 ERA. 1.42 WHIP. would have gave up 29 HRs in GABP last season. Has been 30th percentile or lower in GB% every year of his career. Why would you expect him to be better next season in GABP. Going to cost someone a lot of good prospects for a suspect pitcher. I hope it’s not the Reds.
FartGod
Getz asked for that return because that type of return/trade gets a GM a longer rope/future opportunities from rebuilding teams. He’s still in a good position to blame the next two years of terrible performance on the previous regime.
Aiden Awe
White Sox aren’t contending in 2024. 2025 is a maybe. 2026 sure.
FartGod
I don’t see how they will contend in 2026. Jimenez and Robert will probably be traded by then, Moncada will be gone, and it’s not like they have great pitching.
I could see 2025 being the white flag complete rebuild year.
Aiden Awe
Eloy and Moncada have a club option for 25. LRJ won’t be traded per Chris Getz. Bryan Ramos and Colson Montgomery will be called up by then. They are both doing well in triple A.
Aiden Awe
Another thing: I say 2025/2026 because the Sox are in a better position then rather than 2024. Low expections for 2024, I predict 66-96. Maybe .500 for 2025, 2026- hopefully the next “window”.
THEY LIVE!!!
FartGod
I like the screen name. My fart emoji didn’t come through though‼️
Dtownwarrior78
I wonder what the Tigers could get for Tarik Skubal in this seasons trade market? 7-3, 2.80 ERA 108 K’s in 80.1 IP? Big and strong, top-of-the rotation type with years of control left? Seems with Flaherty and Maeda signed plus having Olsen, Mizen etc still there, it may be a good time to gauge the market?
Motor City Beach Bum
Skubal is worth the same or more than Cease. If Cincy was willing to offer something in that ballpark I think they would have to listen (I’d hate to see them trade him though). Arroyo (Baez’s replacement), Marte (3b), Stewart and Lowder (Skubal’s eventual replacement) and the Tigers throw in Lange too. That’s a return I wouldn’t complain about.
No way Cincy pays that kind of price for Cease or Skubal.
Tiger22matt
Over rating Tigers players again I see. The Reds didn’t get 3 top 100 prospects for Castillo and they sure as heck aren’t giving that up for guys who aren’t as talented.
Motor City Beach Bum
I wouldn’t trade all those players for Cease or Skubal either, and I’d rather the Tigers just hung onto Skubal. You seem to forget that prospects flame out regularly. Spend em if you got em!
Dtownwarrior78
I asked a question there chief, didn’t “overrate” anyone. And just for your information, Skubal IS one of the best young arms in baseball!
Tiger22matt
Good arm or not he’s not worth 3 prospects in the top 68 and another just outside the top 100 as the other person suggests.
Motor City Beach Bum
Dtownwarrior78 brought up a great point to start the conversation. My point was that IF the WSox are asking for everything the article suggests. Which is 3 top 100 prospects + 2 more, then the Tigers should at least be willing to listen on Skubal on a similar offer to the one I suggested. Proven arm vs 4 unproven prospects, which we all know will likely end up being 2 useful major league players, one bench guy and one AAAA player at best. You are the one overvaluing with unproven prospects. Most don’t make it. It costs something to get something. If I’m Detroit I keep Skubal (although Lowder is enticing) and if I’m Cincy I let my young pitchers play and grab a #3 guy. We all k own neither trade is going to happen. Merry Christmas guys.
stymeedone
Skubal has more control than Cease. Still, he is the one Pitcher I would want the Tigers to extend, not trade. Now Olsen is a ground ball pitcher. He would be a good fit for GAB. He has more control, 5 years.
Tigers need a 3B/2B and India won’t do.
HBan22
I would not want to trade Skubal at this point if I were the Tigers. He’s turning into the ace they have needed for a while now. Their farm system is somewhat quietly excellent too. It may take until 2025 to graduate most of it to the majors, but most of their needs will soon be filled by the prospects they have on the way (Keith, Malloy, Jung, etc).
Michael E
As a Reds fan I’d MUCH rather have Skubal than Cease and an overpay could be palatable. I don’t think I’d give up what was rumored for Cease for Skubal, but getting Skubal makes that a bit less laughable.
Bobcastelliniscat
The Red’s mouthpiece aka The Cincinnati Enquirer today had an article claiming the Reds probably won’t acquire a TOR Pitcher this off season. So once again, they plan to go with a rotation that doesn’t include anyone who has pitched 150 innings in a season. What could go wrong?
This one belongs to the Reds
Did you ever doubt it, my friend?
Merry Christmas to you and all you folks out there!
James Midway
They wanted the entire Reds top 100s. No wonder the Reds said no thanks. If that’s the asking price I think he will still be pitching on the south side next year.
cwsOverhaul
As a fan of both teams, would like to see WSox focus on acquiring Lowder, Mclain and a couple throw-in arms/lottery type. They need a “potential” blue chip starter…..and a real everyday ballplayer since clueless how to develop their own. It stings Reds for sure, but they have IF depth.
Tiger22matt
McClain is an overpay
MacGromit
John McClane is a national treasure. Yippee-ki-yay!
Michael E
Agreed. McClain straight up for Cease is questionable from a Reds perspective given how well he performed this year and how poorly Cease has performed.
Honestly, more like an India and Connor Phillips or Loweder for Cease and even then still feels lke we’re overpaying for an SP3/4 pitcher with further downside. I mean Cease has a career 3.8 ERA in the worst hitting division in baseball. I’d be looking at other options well before Cease if I am itching to trade a single top 100 prospect, much less two or three of them.
Tiger22matt
If that’s the package then kick rocks. The Reds aren’t emptying there entire minor league system for 1 guy.
Michael E
especially a “good” starter with a career ERA near 4.00 in a poor hitting division. His trade value right now should be pretty low outside of the two years of control. I mean, a team would have 6 years of control over me, would I get 3 or 4 top 100 prospects? Control is nice, but control of a medicore SP is nothing special at all.
holecamels35
Problem would have mostly been solved had they kept Luis Castillo.
This one belongs to the Reds
I have said that for a couple years now. They could have easily gave him the same contract Seattle did.
Alan Horn
I would take my chances with what we have up now and what we have in line to be up fairly soon. Pitching is way over priced in both the FA and trade markets.
msqboxer
Reds have to put a value on their prospects. Trading for Cease saves you about $30M over the next two year verses signing a FA at $25M annually. None of those prospects are going to impact your team as much as Cease would in 2024.
Big whiffa
By June all their stocks will keep going up. Will cease stock ?
kwolf68
How do you know? Prospects stock don’t go up in every case and most often they are exposed at the highest level. Why CAN’T Cease stock (as compared to last year) go up? Dude is only 27 years old and has proven he can be very good. Is he consistent? Not really, but neither is Blake Snell or Rob Ray, however, when those guys find the groove they all can pitch at a Cy Young Level. You can’t get that kind of potential anywhere.
So yea I suspect Cease over the next 3 years will have varying degrees of success. If you can minimize his floor and cash in on the ceiling you have a legit guy there. Do I think 5 prospects is too much? Yes and even the package of the 4 is very steep, but Arroyo and two pitching prospects is well within the realm of realism of an offer since the Reds are not the only team who is (or should be) interested in adding Dylan Cease.
Big whiffa
I know arroyo stock will go up bc he’s 20 years old playing 23 year olds, has elite defense and is tapping into his power. In 6 months his value will be higher and cease will only have a season and a 1/2 control left.
Phillips stock is up bc he’s 22 and nearly major league ready with a strike out rate that can carry him.
Lowder is a wild card, but the best college arm in a whole draft class.
3 is too much. You can have 4 though and marte can be the 4th. Just send Robert w cease
titanic struggle
Big wiffa… Phillips to me is a wildcard here. He threw 12 straight balls in his last appearance on the mound, and his manager went out and got him. This was an absolute crying shame, as he was squeezed pretty hard. I see the same promise in him though that I did Tyler Mahle, what did he bring back?
Tiger22matt
2 years of Cease for 3 top 100 prospects and a guy who’s just outside of that is crazy.Thats 24 years of elite prospects for 2 years of Cease who wasn’t near worth that last year.
Michael E
A 4.00 ERA pitcher is going to help the Reds? That sounds more like a push over what would have pitched those 180 innings. A comibination of RPs and Martinez would perform better than Cease. I just hope we pass unless the ask is more like India and Phillips for Cease.
tjg25
The moves over the last couple years have only pushed me away. I’ve been a Sox fan my whole life but until Reinsdorf kicks it I can’t see any reason for hope.
Aiden Awe
Maybe 2025/2026 will be different. I heavily doubt that Jerry keeps the team by the stadium lease.
Javia135
I wouldn’t pay a huge price for any pitcher. No big money free agent pitcher, no huge trade package. All pitchers nowadays are way too inconsistent. Cease more than most.
No pitchers now are giving you Greg Maddox results: 150-200+ ip with a 2.00 to 3.20 ERA per year for a 10 year stretch. That would be worth a $300+ million contract or a huge trade package.
Spend on bats, draft pitching.
Biggie22
I know everyone is focused on the Reds trading for a starting pitcher but if I’m them & paying a premium to the White Sox in a trade, Id much rather have Louis Roberts….
Although they’re 2 of my favorite players currently on the Reds; Benson & Fraley are kinda redundant players especially if your plan is to make Steer a corner outfielder full time….
I’d offer up:
Arroyo; Lowder; Fraley & India to the Sox for Roberts…. It gives them 2 proven big leaguers (with lots of control); plus 2 high end prospects…
I know a lot of Reds fan will hate this proposal (probably Sox fans too:) but it really does target an underrated need (RH outfield bat who can play CF) in a huge way…
kwolf68
The White Sox are not giving up a guy like Robert for that package, EVER. Arroyo and Lowder are good starts though, but getting run-of-the-mill guys like India isn’t moving the needle for a legit 5-tool supertar with multi years of control left.
Big whiffa
That’s why they’ll never trade him and never restock the farm to support the next wave of white sox prospects bc they want the greatest return ever for players. It’s like trying to reason w a crazy person.
WS have no clue what they are doing and no clue how to identify the right talent to trade for. If they did- they wouldn’t ask for so much bc they’d be confident in a reasonable return.
And btw- arroyo > Tim Anderson
Biggie22
Fraley is a legit big league asset who is a solid defender & smokes RH pitching…. India may not be as valuable as some Reds fans believe he is but; he’s also way more valuable than some other fans are acting like…. He’s still a young former rookie of the years with 3 years of control…. It’s funny how some people want us to only account for the good years and upside when calculating Cease’s value but wouldn’t consider even taking that into consideration for anyone else:)..
I’m not in anyway suggesting that India alone would get anything done but let’s stop pretending he doesn’t add at least some value to a trade package that already includes 2 top 100 prospects…
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hey Cincy. No ticky? No tacky
The Brokenheart Kid
Hey, Getz, get a real right fielder this offseason.
rotofool
Make no mistake Reds fans, you would be very excited to have Cease pitching every 5th day in front of that defense and to an actual plus ML catcher. SOX team behind him was frighteningly horrible in the field, and their catching was actually worse than that. On the right team he’d have around 170-190 innings and 230+ Ks with few HRs, although a good share of walks. In the NL central he could dominate.
I expect at least one of CIN, BAL, AZ, or PIT to pay a little less than the ask above, but something comparable to the return for Sale. SOX greatest need is OF & pitching, so I’m hoping BAL wins it by parting with Kjerstad, which is probably a long shot. Also would love to see a return that included Druw Jones from AZ, who are ready to win now. Cincy should be interested in those two as well!!
Tiger22matt
Eh you can keep him for the price of 4 elite prospects. The Reds didn’t even get that for Castillo.
elly de la burrow
Lol, I expect the White Sox to be unable to move him for their hilarious asking price, doing nothing for two years and then watching him walk for nothing
Aiden Awe
Always the trade deadline if he improves.
Franklin Nitty
What defense? Reds players dont even have positions. Wouldn’t be surprised
If David Bell had Cease playing right field against lefties in night games on Wednesdays.
THEY LIVE!!!
Bring Votto back for his final year‼️
Stallion97
He had his final year.
BeeVeeTee
Cease’s statistics from 2023 were not signs of him declining but signs of the White Sox being a team that was out of contention in the middle of the season where he was not throwing his best stuff with the risk of getting injured. Don’t forget this is not only a game but a business.
Simm
I like Cease and he would be a good pick up for every team. I also don’t look at him as a number one or a number two. I see him as a 3 that will provide you with a lot of innings.
He is still cheap next year and has two years of control.
White Sox are asking for an ace + level return. No team is going to give them anything close to that. He maybe worth a top 100 protect and throw in or two but that’s it.
If he has another year like last year he won’t even be worth half of that come the break.
He has had 1 great season and the rest are a little above avg. He just isn’t that good.
kingbum
Welcome to this thing called negotiation. This is how it works, at first you way over price dude just to see what the other team is willing to offer first. If you are the asking team you put forward your worst package first and get a feel if you can come to an agreement on someone. Back and forth yada, yada, couple weeks later you got a deal.
kwolf68
For real, right. There are just so many bad comments on this forum. White Sox should ask (assuming this is even the offer) for a huge package and negotiate from there.
There is a ton of upside in Cease. Everyone points to his 2023 as “proof” he’s garbage. Cease is a ton like Rob Ray and Blake Snell, elite arms, great stuff, but command comes and goes leaving them short on consistency. So you DO HAVE those “off games” and even off years, but when things click those guys pitch at a Cy Young level.
Other negotiating advantages for the White Sox are: Cease takes the ball. Can the Reds show me any pitcher they have they can positively count on for 180 innings? There is value in knowing every 5th day this guy is gonna start for you and be able to throw over 100 pitches.
Another thing missed in these arguments is people are acting like the Reds are negotating for Cease in a vaccum. In other words, it’s them or bust. However, the White Sox are likley in contact with no less than 5 teams with a desperate need for rotation help who they themselves are willing to offer some sort of package commensurate for a player like Cease. Someone is going to actually value the proven SP over guys doing well in A or AA ball. Prospects are not just foundational building blocks, but also great assets to cash out for a more proven player.
In short, I think Dylan Cease will require something like two Top 80 prospects plus another one in the 100-140 range and possibly a low A wildcard. You are not going to get a guy with his type of arm/potential, durability, age and control for one good prospect and some middling filler guys or MLB depth options.
Simm
Cease isn’t like snell. Snells worse years were never as bad as cease’s. Plus cease is losing velo.
Cease is not getting two 2 too 80’s plus a the rest of the stuff you put on here. Zero chance chance that happens. For most clubs that’s all their high end prospects. What you mention is about the same every is ripping on in here.
User 4095290658
It looks to me like the Reds are out of the bidding, but are trying to bump up the prospect cost for the Pirates.
elly de la burrow
LOL. The White Sox are like the last-place team in fantasy with one decent player that they think is sweet because the rest of their team sucks and then they try to trade him to build a contender.
Reds should put them on mute and move on.
sss847
These two aren’t a match. Cincy doesn’t have anything else worth a crap in their farm system and asking for McClain/De La Cruz would have been more egregious.
Cincy just needs to pony up some Blake Snell cash and Sox need to sell Cease to a team with real prospect depth like Baltimore.
Tiger22matt
Tell us you don’t know what your talking about without telling us directly. 3 of the 4 guys in that package are in the top 68 in the prospects list with the 4th guy just outside of that. For reference the Yankees didn’t give up a single top 50 prospect to get Soto while the Reds are being asked to pony up 2 with a guy at 68.
titanic struggle
Tiger22matt.. That’s a fact, I’m in the frame of mind to just save the prospects, and go buy a Blake Snell or Jorden Montgomery. It’ll cost you, but you have the money to put your team over the top. Go buy one of these guys..
Big whiffa
Reds system is absolutely loaded ! So is their major league depth.
It’s the WS that have no clue what they are doing or how to evaluate talent. If they did – they would have taken 3 dudes from reds they’d be thrilled to have
NoNeckWilliams
Fans tend to overrate prospects. Teh years ago, the top two Reds pitching prospects were Robert Stephenson and Tony Cingrani.
Big whiffa
Don’t forget Cody Reed lol.
Coys Bacon
Reds also have to rely on as many prospects as possible. They can match some contracts in dollars but not the length of them. Like Gray. 2 years at 50M with player option for that 2nd year. Until they see what or where their TV money is coming from. Can’t trade off their high end prospects even for 2 years of Stach man. 3 years? Maybe. Pitchers arms though such o volatility. Even the best starters are barely 6 inning guys.
titanic struggle
Coys Bacon.. Remember when pitchers were men? Remember the guys who had a manager afraid to pull out of a game?
cguy
In retrospect, both Stephenson and Cingrani were decent picks, but probably mismanaged/miscoached by Reds (Joketty/Price/ et alI). As can be seen by the number of more recent propects makig it to the big show under DJ and Krall- Reds pitching prospects command a higher value than those pitching prospects of a decade ago.I believe 2024 will be the season that MLB writers and commentors realize the Reds are a net pitching development organization. -Which they already are.
Syd Thrift
3-way trade with Reds, Royals and Sox solves all problems. Sox send Cease to Reds and Kopach to Royals. Reds send India to Royals, Petty to Sox. Royals send Garcia, Gentry, Zerpa, Lyles. and Carter Jenson to sox.
Cincy gets ace for India and Petty
Sox get catching, pitching and off prospects and rotation arm for this year as well as true SS
Royals get upgrade at 3b and post prospect arm.
Simm
Hate to break it to you but cease isn’t close to an ace.
Coys Bacon
Reds have 2nd pick in the draft.
Maybe they can part with Petty. Don’t mind Arroyo at all. Carlos Jorge an OF or Dunn from AA. Thrown in with India and Acuna a pitcher who looks good in AA. Philips is too close to majors to deal. Lawson? Wouldn’t deal him though.
SalaryCapMyth
Based on what the White Sox were after from the Reds I would assume the package the Braves would have to sent for Cease is Shawver, Waldrop, Grissom and company. Its really difficult to see Anthopoulos approving that deal. It’s just to expensive.
Really, though, I dont think Getz is being unrealistic. Why shouldn’t he set the price really high? I’m sure he’s expected to gather talent through trades but he’s not expected to build the next White Sox contender by 2024 or even 2025. He has time to see what he can get for a pitcher that most of the league seems to be interested in because he’s under control until 26.
Aiden Awe
I think the white Sox should be competing by 2025/2026 tbh. Chris needs to get rid of Cease, even if they got get 2-3 top prospects. Trading Cease rn increases their playoff chances in 2025-2026. Stalling Cease’s contract does nothing unless white Sox catch lightning in a bottle.
ekrog
Cease is a 3rd starter at best. White Sox are dropping the shrooms.
NastyNestor
A package around Edwin Arroyo is a great haul. It seems Getz is being unrealistic in his return for Cease.
titanic struggle
Nasty, I agree Sir.