The Reds are in agreement with left-hander Brent Suter on a one-year deal, reports Robert Murray of FanSided. It’s a $3MM guarantee that takes the form of a $2.5MM salary in 2024 and a $500K buyout on a $3.5MM club option for ’25. The deal is still pending a physical for the Diamond Sports Management client. Cincinnati will need to make a corresponding move to clear a spot on the 40-man roster once the contract is finalized.
It’s the latest move in a pitching-heavy offseason. The Reds have added Frankie Montas to the rotation and Emilio Pagán to the late innings. Swingman Nick Martinez could contribute in either role. Suter seems ticketed for the bullpen, although he reportedly drew some interest as a starting pitcher this winter.
The 34-year-old has spent the past half-decade in relief. Suter saw some work out of the rotation early in his career with the Brewers. Despite finding a decent amount of success, he was pushed to the bullpen by 2019 as Milwaukee graduated pitchers with higher caliber stuff.
While Suter isn’t a prototypical power reliever, he has been a valuable bullpen piece. The Harvard product has turned in a sub-4.00 ERA in five straight seasons. Suter’s profile has been built around strong control and excellent contact suppression. He has posted better than average ground-ball rates over the past five seasons and is consistently one of the game’s toughest pitchers to square up.
Opponents have averaged between 84-86 MPH in exit velocity in each of the last four seasons, per Statcast. That ranked in the 95th percentile or better in all four years. Batters made hard contact (an exit velocity at or above 95 MPH) on only 26.3% of their batted balls a season ago. Among qualified pitchers, only Phil Maton, Tom Cosgrove and Tanner Scott did a better job avoiding authoritative contact.
The ability to stay off barrels allowed Suter to overcome hitter-friendly home environments. He turned in strong results in Milwaukee and had no issues acclimating to Colorado’s Coors Field after a waiver claim last offseason. In 69 1/3 innings, he turned in a 3.38 ERA for the Rockies, including a 3.66 mark in 32 frames in Denver. A track record of success in difficult home parks is surely appealing to a front office building a pitching staff in Great American Ball Park.
Nevertheless, teams generally harbor skepticism about a pitcher who succeeds on guile and command without overpowering pure stuff. Suter’s only season with an above-average strikeout rate came during the abbreviated 2020 campaign. Last year, he punched out just 18.8% of opponents while sitting in the mid-upper 80s with his sinker and four-seam fastball.
Suter’s age and lack of velocity was always likely to limit his market. It’s still somewhat surprising that he landed a $3MM guarantee. Next year’s salary is a half million dollars below the $3MM he made last year, his final arbitration season. Suter grew up in Cincinnati and attended high school there, so it seems fair to presume that geography played a role in his decision — particularly if his camp was sorting through a number of low-cost, one-year offers.
He joins Sam Moll and Alex Young as left-handed relief options for skipper David Bell. The Reds have Alexis Díaz in the ninth inning and brought back Buck Farmer to join Pagán and Lucas Sims as right-handed setup candidates. Ian Gibaut, who is out of options, could compete with Fernando Cruz and Tejay Antone for the final spot or two in the middle innings.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
Good deal. Welcome aboard, Brent!
Solid singing but whose place in the 26 man roster does he take? Young just signed and Moll isn’t going anywhere either.
That’s a great question. I have no idea. Maybe they try to move Alex Young. He’s clearly the odd man out.
Nothing really wrong with three lefties in the bullpen, even though it would be novel for the Reds.
Reds have Abbott, Montas, Greene, Ashcraft, Lodolo in the rotation with Martinez as a swing man. Add Diaz, Sims, Farmer, Pagan, Suter and that puts you at 11 locks for a 13 man staff. Moll should be safe. Young, Cruz, Gibaut, Antone, Duarte and NRIs may be jockeying for that final spot assuming no injuries in spring.
@Cincyfan – Reds used 30 pitchers through June last year. Young can be optioned and has a cheap contract. No reason to trade, just use him as a depth piece.
Gibault is likely safe as he has no options, 1.8 bWAR last year and is pre-arb and has 4 years of cheap control left. Doubt they wanna lost that.
I agree. I like the way the Reds added to the team this off season without losing any young players or top minor league talent. Wait a little while and see what you have. Many are from trades and others are recently drafted.. The only addition I question (it is not from a talent perspective but need) is Candelario. It looks to be too many infielders and outfielders for them all to slot in as the DH. Maybe some don’t produce or experience extended injury. It will be hard to keep them all happy if not.
This actually sounds like a solid group of pitchers all around! I’m excited for the season to start
You want to cut to 26 in January?
To answer your q, whoever goes down with TJ in March.
Injury issues is indeed the answer, lets hope no TJ’s
Yes, and any good GM needs to do the math even at this point
Young has options this year, so I’d say he’ll start the year in AAA
You guys are right. I think Young is in AAA to start, unless there’s an injury to Moll or Suter.
Thx didn’t know that. Fernando Cruz has options too which makes sense.
It would be nice to have some competent bullpen help a call away rather than the oft released guys they used in Louisville last year. They haven’t developed many home grown bullpen guys for a while now.
Young’s thoughts on that?
And how’s Suter ahead of Lodolo/williamson?
This one is a bit of a head scratcher….
Lodolo and Williamson are starters. Why have Williamson in the bullpen when he could starting in AAA and be the first man up if an injury occurs. Lodolo will be in the Reds starting rotation if he is healthy, Martinez will be in the Bullpen to start the season (if everyone is healthy) Honestly, it doesn’t really matter what Youngs thoughts are on it, Suter is better. This is a really deep pitching staff.
He really is a Suter for the job.
yuck-yuck=yuck
Big B.S. signing here.
Waiting for “this one belongs to the reds” reaction.
Lol, knowing that it be some whiny post calling Krall ‘Po Boy”
Lol, I like the guy, reminds me of my older brother. Part of me thinks we should coin the phrase “po boy Krall”. If you are looking for a good po boy I would highly recommend the fried oyster po boy at the grill in Apalachicola!
In the current climate of political correctness, using that phrase is basically asking for a jihad to be launched against you. I personally have no problem with it, but I know some people who do….
I told you to make these moves last year, Po Boy!
Po Boy finally spent some money but spent $3MM on the wrong guy!
Well, who should’ve they have signed?
Jordan Montgomery.
Yeah, and I should have bought a Mercedes instead of Hugo
At least they didn’t sign Luke Weaver.
Fellas, I’m just needling @This one.
Came here for the same thing!
Dumpster diving by Po Boy- or some such nonsense.
Do you read this website? Every team is dumpster diving. The Yankees just signed Luke Weaver for a 5th starter. That’s a rat infested dumpster that he was in
Cheap!
Great deal. As a pirates fan the Reds are really doing a good job this off season
Reds are my bet to win the division.
My bet is:
Cin- 93 wins
CHC- 90 wins
Mil- 85 wins
PIT- 83 wins
Stl- 80 wins
So you think the entire NL Central will be over .500 except for STL that will be 1 game under? So where are all the teams under .500 going to be?
Not in the NL Central.
So only one team has a losing record and they’re 80-82. Impressive division.
More evenly matched than impressive, but yeah that’s my prediction.
I’d say something like:
CHC – 90
CIN – 88
STL – 88
PIT – 78
MIL – 70
how does Milwaukee go from winning the division with 92 wins to only 70 wins when they only lost one of their pitchers who didn’t play most of the season? somehow the cubs won 7 more games by adding a 3/4 pitcher? you must be a cubs fan
Half the Reds stating 8 are regression candidates and the other four aren’t great.
Under 81….
Is that a 2 year total on StL ? 80 wins in 24 and 25 combined ?
-5 from every team and that’s about right
Going back to 2013 when the Astros left the Central, here are the number of wins by the last place Central team.
2013 – 66
2014 – 73
2015 – 64
2016 – 68
2017 – 68
2018 – 67
2019 – 69
2021 – 61
2022 – 62 (x2)
2023 – 71
There is a 0% chance that the last place club in the Central will have 80 wins. Someone will falter and more than likely two teams will.
Great for CIN. He lives in town and preferred to play for hometown club? That’s always great to hear.
Actually a good signing for the Reds He brings a different look to the pen or a a spot starter. He can torment another teams batting order. Jamie Moyer like with a quick pitch approach.
I like this move. I was worried about the pen with all the innings they had to throw last year. This is a big help. Love the depth this team has!
Now there’s a nice reliever pick up. Glad he’s not on the other side anymore.
See, you can build a nice bullpen without breaking the bank. More coming?
Po Boy did good with this signing. Cheap solid bullpen arm.
Pagan signed for 8 million and Suter for 2. They wonder why people question if the Reds know what they are doing sometimes.
I think hell just froze
kudos
Steal for the Reds, especially if he’s ever used out of the rotation as he was rumored to potentially be.
You have GOT to love the Reds and their future.
That was a great middle innings signing/spot starter
I would of loved to have seen Suter pitch against Mike ( Human Rain Delay ) Hargrove. As Spock would have said, “Fascinating”.
I’m a Brewer fan and you have a good one. He does whatever you ask of him and is solid. Yes he once in awhile has a clunker. Great clubhouse guy and is willing to help out any young guy. Great teammate. Enjoy his personality.
Another lost opportunity for the Mets. If you’re not gonna sign Matt Moore, sign Wandy Peralta.
I think you’re right that Wandy will be signed by the Mets. Brebbia’s a possibility, too, but could they bring Robertson back?
Why bring Robertson? He’s 38 and tailed off miserably after they traded hi last season. He is far more likely to decline than improve or even stay the same. Robertson is also RH. The Mets have stated a preference for adding :LH help to the bullpen..
$3M is what he made in arbitration last year. Strange that he couldn’t get a better offer.
Yeah, I kind of agree…
He wanted to play at his home area so probably took a discount to settle with the Reds plus they have a pretty good looking team for 2024.
On the other hand, with a $3.5 team option for 2025, Suter could garner a lot of interest at the trade deadline- if he’s having a good year.
Nice signing. While the Reds didn’t end up adding the bona fide ace they needed this offseason, they still have had a nice offseason. Their pitching is much deeper, and the bullpen could end up as an area of strength now. Montas having a bounce back season would be huge for them.
Could still trade for Cease but yeah Reds have had a pretty good offseason. Not perfect imo but they certainly are spending.
Skeens is labeled as the best pitching prospect since strasburg. Do u know who else use to carry that title ? Now 24 year old hunter Greene. Greene is > than any pitcher they could add this season not named burnes and 2024 will be his rise to dominance
Watch out for em !
They will be absolutely primed to pick up a frontline SP at the trading deadline- if they actually need one. Have payroll space, prospects, versatility, and a GM who will pull the trigger!
He didn’t last season.
He probably didn’t last season because he could read the writing on the wall that the team was in a losing spiral due to overuse of the bullpen, starters puttering out and some of the hitters hitting cold streaks. He couldn’t revitalize the team without totally selling out the future.
Now this season, with so much invested on new pieces, he will be more inclined to prove his rebuild is working (Krall).
And a lot of Reds fans are glad he did not. Results from SP added at trade deadline last year were less than impressive. I doubt Krall had the authority to add substantial payroll last late August- which he obviously does now. The asking price -in prospects-that teams wanted for pitching were core to the Reds successful rebuild and best not traded away. The pitching staff assembled this offseason shows that Krall didn’t say “no” to adding sp, just “not now”. The disposition of the Reds revenue from game broadcasts will be much clearer by this coming August. It’s likely that both ML and MiL pieces the Reds might use will have higher value by ASB this year.
It is sad that the Bally’s situation provably hamstrung them from getting the true ace they need.
As someone said above, better to gave some certainty instead of maybes, hopes, and could bes if you want to truly consider yourself a contender.
That being said, the arms going into camp this year are 1000% better than a year ago. Hope the new veteran pitchers can teach guys like Greene and Lodolo how to pitch rather than throw and use that talent to the max.
Reds…..and minus dudes like Weaver and Cessa, and Overton
David Bell will have this bullpen taxed by august like he has all 5 years he has been in cincinnati.
How does a guy with a 3.44 FIP in Colorado last year not get more money than this? Really good signing by the Reds.
His fastball generally tops out at about 86. And when he can’t locate or fool guys with his 3 seconds or less approach, it’s 3-4 consecutive hits including a couple homers.
Average fastball velo last year was 87.1, but he is in the 100th percentile for preventing barreled ball, lowest average exit velocity and lowest hard hit percentage. Also gets ground balls like crazy. Great signing for a small ballpark
It ain’t luck
It’s a pretty cheap deal for a player that has been mostly solid his whole career, nice pickup!
Nice problem to have when you sign a solid player and someone asks “don’t we have too many good relievers already?” Can’t wait for an umpire to yell “ Play ball”
Wow Reds are loaded this year. It’ll be sad seeing guys like Williamson, Cruz, Duarte, Phillips, and Derek Law seemingly out of the picture for the upcoming season. They are certainly dotting every I and crossing every T.
Law was already cut earlier in the offseason, but I believe the rest of the guys you mentioned still have options, so they should stick around. They’ve definitely built up some solid pitching depth.
I would absolutely love to see the Reds sign Derek Law to a MiLB contract.(with an invitation to ST). Derek has been there and done that and could push his way onto Reds active roster once again.
Loaded with potential. The big league results are not there yet, especially pitching. They do not have a starter penciled in who didnt spend time on the IL last year and in some cases, spent MOST of the season on the IL.
Checks and makes sure that Nitty’s cup is trully half empty.. yep, just like he likes it.
I live a very full life my friend. Just cant be fooled anymore.
Suter and Montas. Early favorites to be traded come July.
Youre wrong. The Reds will be buyers.
You (and I) hope they will be buyers. Didn’t do a lot of buying last July.
Pretty sure Reds fans are much happier they’re signing Suter than Luke Weaver again.
Simply because it’s possible that Phillips, Richardson, Sanmartin, Petty, Santillan, Aguilar, Spiers, Stout, Roa, Williamson, Lowder, etc. take their place and make them available for trade.
An offer has also been made to Bruce Sutter !!
This is an example of why pitchers often fight to stay starters instead of going to relief. The same stats with a starters work load would have seen him get 10x the guaranteed money or more
Love what the REDS are doing. This is a very win-able division & they are making moves ! NOW, sign some of these guys long-term & you’ll be set for some time !
Nevertheless, teams generally harbor skepticism about a pitcher who succeeds on guile and command without overpowering pure stuff.
And how’s that working for them?
High ERA’s, countless injuries, but he’s got “great stuff” and he “throws hard”.
88 new articles on MLBTR’s today but none that mention Walker Buehler avoided arbitration?
It’s being deferred
This is the only logical signing this off season. Going into the off-season I thought the needs were 2 top of the rotation starters as priority 1 and 2, a right handed corner outfield bat priority 3 and another left handed pen piece priority 4 because law has reverse splits.
I think this is a good signing at a fair price and maybe we pick up the option for 2025. Let’s review the other signings. We didn’t need pagan as an 8th inning guy when we already had simms and anton coming back. Our pen wasn’t the problem part of our pitching last season other than they were overworked because starters couldn’t go past 4 innings.
We didn’t need Martinez as a 4th or 5th starter since we already have Greene, lodolo, Ashcraft & Williamson to fill those 2 slots. We needed 2 top of the rotation guys to pitch in front of Abbott slotted 3rd and pick of any of the other 4 as 4th & 5th. Who knows what we will get with montas. If montas from 2 years ago we get a top of the rotation type but he pitched 1.33 innings last year.
We didn’t need candelario even though he was a good deal. We already had 2 better than average hitting corner infielders with Marte & steer and possibly 3 in CES and then EDLC who can’t hit but the most talented player in MLB in all other areas of the game who is young & needs to get AB’s to try to figure out hitting.
So if I add it up that is $8 million pagan, $13 million Martinez, $15 million candelario and $16 million montas. Total $52 million. I get that longer term but on an annual basis the diamondbacks spent $20 million a year on Rodríguez and cardinals $25 million a year on gray both top of the rotation pitchers.
Folks are going to say that small market teams don’t need to hand out long term contracts but gray was 3 years and Rodríguez 4 so not really long term. I don’t consider St. Louis or Phoenix large markets either but the cardinals are always good until last year and diamondbacks want to make the World Series again and did what they could to make it happen.
eduardo rodriguez is certainly no better than abbott could be, and it makes more sense to have those optionable starting pitchers start the year in AAA, as injuries will create needs on the major league team. gray wouldve been nice, but he has already played there and they definitely wouldnt be getting the surplus value from him that they did last time he signed there, so im assuming he was never much of a target for them. for only spending $55M (adding suter’s deal from today) they really have improved the main areas of the roster you’re worried about, especially since it’s likely that steer takes a lot of left field reps this upcoming year
Yes steer can go to left field but the main area of concern was starting pitching. Abbott “could be” better than Rodríguez and Greene & Lodolo “could be” better than Abbott. They both have more talent but the thing is they have not been. With that said talent alone don’t make one a top of the rotation starter.
I agree Abbott is the closest we have to that but he fell off last year as the season went on. I would rather have him start the season as our #3 to see if he can pitch like his first 10 starts last year or if he is like his last 10 starts. Greene 4.68 career era in 50 starts and Lodolo 4.32 career era in 25 starts are 5th & 4th starters until they become better if they become better.
Compare that to gray 3.46 career (2.79 last year) and Rodríguez 4.03 career (3.3 last year). We ranked 14th out of 15 NL teams last year in starting pitching era the cardinals were 11th and diamondbacks 10th. Let’s just see if they improve next year with gray and Rodríguez and if we do going with what we have.
If Greene and Lodolo pitch to their talent then we will be ok but if they don’t we sit home in October and have this same discussion same time next year but all of our good young offensive players get more expensive to keep and a year less control. I would have rather minimized the chances of that happening by signing gray and Rodríguez than depending on Greene and lodolo to be something they have not been yet.
BTW since my last post Stroman signed with the Yankees for $18.5 million a year for 2 years with a vesting option for a third. Stroman is a decent #2 starter and less money and years than Rodríguez.
Shannon you acknowledge that Greene, Lodolo, and Abbott can be TOR pitchers. I’d add Ashcraft to that list. With four quality pitchers/prospects that could become TOR types, and with more quality pitching in the upper minors, why would they sign two more expensive starters? Let the youngsters pitch and then determine what you need. They now have a total depth that they didn’t have a year ago. In 2023 40 pitchers pitched for the Reds, including 17 starters. it’s very unlikely that they have that much bad injury luck this year, but if so, they have way more depth.
And Stroman is not the type of veteran leader you want around a bunch of young starters. He has talent, but gobs of attitude to go with it, with problems at every stop.
I admit they can be but they have not been nor can they be depended on being top of the rotation types until they are. Similar to EDLC on offense. Plenty of speed and plenty of power but until he can cut down his 40% strikeout rate I don’t want him leading off or batting cleanup nor will he. He will bat 8th or 9th in the lineup to get at bats until he can cut down on the strikeouts.
See we can do that with EDLC because we have other good offensive players to hide him in the lineup so to speak without costing us games Every team has a couple starting pitchers that take the mound every 5th day and post a 4.5 to 5 era and their is value in that but good teams have a couple of other starting pitchers that have era’s in the high 2’s or low 3’s. We needed 2 of those type pitchers to let Greene, lodolo & Ashcraft get starts at the back of the rotation to see if they can figure things out. If they do then we win 100 games instead of 90. If they don’t then the way the roster is now we win 80 like we did last year and waste another year.
As far as the wait & see approach you are assuming our window to compete is still a year or 2 away but I think our window to compete started last season. The thing is if we have to wait another couple of years to see if these pitchers are going to be good then they will start to get expensive to keep and we will be paying for a good pitcher then vs now when payroll was already low. Or they end up being good pitchers for some other team or they never pan at all. Our good young hitters will continue to get more expensive as well.
Maybe it’s just me and I am no baseball savant but it seemed to me what we lacked last year were a couple of top of the rotation pitchers. Offense was way above league average and bullpen was at least average or better until late because they were overworked from bad starting pitching that would go 4 or less innings.
Last year at the trade deadline I thought we should have added a starting pitcher. When we didn’t I did an exercise where I went on fangraphs and filtered for 18 starts since the start of 2022. The idea was to get the entirety of Greene, lodolo, Ashcraft, Abbott & Williamson careers. 220 such pitchers, 150 is all there would be if every pitcher was healthy and nobody bad enough to be cut (5×30 teams). I looked at era, whip, k/9 & k/bb. All categories Abbott was around 30 of 220 but that was before he started tiring out. Williamson around 120 in era & whip. Lodolo around 140 in era & whip but 10 in the k’s. Green & Ashcraft around 165 in era & whip but Greene top 5 in k’s. Greene & Ashcraft also had the most starts around 40 at that time. Point of reference Luke weaver ranked 180 in era & whip. Spencer strider for the Braves same age and career starts as Greene ranked top 20 in all categories. Greene, Ashcraft & lodolo are closer to Luke weaver than they are top of the rotation pitchers.
The thing is like everyone else I hope that Greene, lodolo and Ashcraft become top of the rotation pitchers just like I hope the reds win 100 games and the World Series not just next year but every year. A hope is not a plan however. Those guys are what they are until they become something different and that is 4th & 5th starters. Evidently we have resources now and I think the money would have been better spent on 2 top of the rotation pitchers.
Shannon, I’ve responded before saying that you are making arbitrary declarations, but this one is special:
“We needed 2 of those type pitchers to let Greene, lodolo & Ashcraft get starts at the back of the rotation to see if they can figure things out. If they do then we win 100 games instead of 90. If they don’t then the way the roster is now we win 80 like we did last year and waste another year.”
This is an either or proposition, so why are there three outcomes in your thinking?
Acquire 2 TOR pitchers = win 100 games.
Don’t acquire 2 TOR pitchers = win 90 games.
So how do you get to the win 80 game outcome?
If the team followed your thinking, not one but TWO of the following pitchers would not be in the rotation:
Greene
Lodolo
Ashcraft
Abbott
Williamson
not to mention Montas
These are all young pitchers with a ton of talent and promise, but you’d have them sitting and watching newly acquired pitchers for probably two years or more. The youngsters need to start games in MLB, just like EDLC needs to play everyday as a Red. Also, most of the top pitching targets are being signed for multiple years, why are they going to sign to pitch in a hitter’s ballpark like GABP for a single season if they are top shelf and completely healthy?
You state that I am assuming that the Reds window to compete is a year or more away. When have I ever said that? My belief is that the young pitchers give us the best hope for competing this year and for years to come. The Reds have a ton of starting pitching depth now, and the Lowders, Phillips, and Pettys of the world are knocking on the door. The kids give us the best chance of having a long and sustainable window of contention.
And please stop comparing Greene, Ashcraft, and Lodolo to Luke Weaver. Smh
Ok I have responded before as well so first I will give you my facts and ask you why Greene and Ashcraft are top of the rotation and then I will address the other things you have brought up. This is since the start of 2022 and the age they were in 2022:
Luke weaver age 28 57 starts 6.32 era
Hunter Greene age 22 46 starts 4.62 era
Graham Ashcraft age 24 45 starts 4.82 era
Spencer strider age 23 52 starts 3.37 era
I threw strider in this because he is similar in age to Greene and Ashcraft. Without looking at the age and knowing nothing about velocity only one of those pitchers is a top of the rotation type, 2 are backend of the rotation types and the other shouldn’t be playing. Tell me if I am incorrect to think this way but in my mind if I were a GM putting together a team and slotting starters 1-5 a 4.5 to 5 era pitcher is a 5th starter a 4.2 to 4.5 a 4th starter, 3.8-4.2 #3, 3.3 to 3.8 #2 and less than 3.2 an ace. Some teams like the Braves have multiple guys that pitch to a 3.3 or less just as some teams like the reds have multiple that pitch in the 4.5 to 5 range. My question is what makes you consider Greene and Ashcraft to be top of the rotation pitchers? Because I see them as being back of the rotation until they can do something different than they have.
If Greene. Lodolo and Ashcraft had pitched like strider the last few years then yes I would so no need to spend on pitching. I want to win now not wait and see if they figure it out or not. Now let me address your other points. With the addition of montas & Martinez likely 2 of the 5 you mentioned will be starting the season in triple an anyway. If all are healthy and montas and Martinez contract players while lodolo, Abbott and Williamson have options (not sure about Ashcraft) 2 of those will not be pitching as a red on opening week. My complaint is about the signings we did. I would have preferred gray and Rodríguez or Stroman to montas and Martinez. Maybe Martinez is a pen pitcher but we are fairly full there and $13 million a year is a lot to pay for a non closer in the pen for a small market team.
We can keep EDLC in the lineup with a sub .300 OBP and 40% strikeout rate because we have 8 other offensive players that will have an above .330 obp and all better than average hitters. We have to pitch the 4.5 to 5 eras of Greene, Ashcraft & lodolo because that is the best we have. 2 4.5 to 5 era pitchers are good enough with our offense if we had a couple in the low 3’s to go with it.
As for legnth of contract. Yes montas could come back healthy and give us one good year as a top of the rotation type and Greene and lodolo could pitch up to their potential and had we signed gray for 3 years instead of montas we would have 3 top of the rotation types for 3 years instead of one year but the Braves seem like I do ok have multiple top of the rotation types. Also Greene or lodolo would have excess value in an off-season and could be traded for more prospects if we didn’t want more than 2 top of the rotation types.
This ties into your other thing about the 80, 90 & 100 wins. Assume we had signed gray & either Rodríguez or Stroman and they pitched like they have the last 3 or 4 years and that Greene and lodolo pitch to their potential we win 100 games. Let’s assume gray and either Rodríguez or Stroman were signed and pitched like they have but Greene & lodolo still have the 4.5 to 5 era with 4 inning outings then we win 90 games. We didn’t sign gray and Rodríguez or Stroman and Greene and lodolo pitch to their potential we still win 90 games. If Greene and lodolo don’t pitch to their potential and montas doesn’t come back like he was with the A’s then our starter era next year is probably similar to last year near the bottom of the league and we win 80 games. 4 top of the rotation types = 100 wins, 2 = 90 and 0 = 80. Obviously young offense could regress or get that much better and change that scenario or maybe Abbott and Williamson end up being what we wanted Greene & lodolo to be but all things equal.
Gray was a 3 year deal and Stroman a 2 year deal. Martinez 2 year deal and candelario (who will take at bats away from India, Marte, EDLC and McLain) was a 3 year deal. Under my scenario for what we spent our rotation would be: 1. Gray 2. Stroman 3. Abbott 4. Greene 5 Ashcraft with lodolo and Williamson starting the season in Louisville. Our position players across the infield would be 1B India 2B McLain 3B Marte SS EDLC. Vs what you are ok with and what it’s likely to be of a rotation of 1. Montas 2. Greene 3. Lodolo 4. Ashcraft 5 Martinez. Across the infield with 1B candelario 2B McLain 3B Marte SS EDLC.
You are putting faith in that Greene, Lodolo and Ashcraft are going to perform to a level they never had. If team finances dictated a payroll of $50 million like I was afraid it was going to be then that is what I would do as well. However we have now upped the payroll to $100 million and with our young cheap offense could have put together a very good team on paper. Granted games are played on a field and not paper and past results do not indicate future performance but the past is the best reference to use I think.
We can revisit this a year from now. I hope you are right. I hope Greene or Lodolo win the Cy young next year and I hope they both finish top 10 in Cy young voting. We both know the potential is there but potential doesn’t always pan out and I would rather have something more proven although nothing is guaranteed.
Maybe it was you are someone else referenced Chris carpenter as not giving up to soon on young pitchers and mentioned his Toronto years as being atrocious and his cardinal year being HOF type. I looked up his stats and sure enough in 6 seasons in Toronto his era was over 5. The thing is what if it takes Greene & lodolo that long to reach their potential? They neither do us any good for 4 more years other than filling a roll in the back of the rotation. Lodolo probably never does us any good in that case as a boras client because he would pithing for someone else 5 years from now.
Mark Sheldon spoke with Brent Suter. Here’s what he said:
“We are super excited, it’s just a dream come true. The Reds were my favorite team of any sport, anything for years and years growing up. This is absolutely surreal, so cool.”
The kind of guy you want on your team.
Was Pauly O’Neill’s childhood team too. His #21 was for R. Clemente.
In Pittsburgh Clemente was known as The Great One.
He got at least one hit in all 14 WS games that he played in.
O’Neill picked a good jersey number to have.
Clemente was Pauly’s favorite player as a kid.
I got a hit off O’Neill in high school. He had a hot temper back then.
That’s a cool story. I assume he was one of the better baseball kids. But, Yeah, it seemed like he grew out of that temper….at 45!
Just ask the Gatorade cooler.
that temper allowed him to kick that ball back to the infield!
He got good hang time too!
Perhaps the best kick of the 90s, including football. His form was amazing.
Saw Suter at the Caravan last night. A great addition to the team. A very personable and optimistic player. A local to boot.
Welcome home big dog!!
For just a half million dollars less, Krall could have resigned Luke Weaver. I hope Castellini realizes how frivelous with his money Krall can be!!!
They would pay more than that out treating fans and players for whiplash at the ballpark.
one of the nicest guys in the game, he will be a fan favorite for sure!
Bummer (no offense, Reds fans :)).
Not sure it’s been mentioned but one of the things that Suter has always had on his side is timing. He is far and away one of the quickest working pitchers in MLB. From the moment he gets the balls back, he’s back on the mound, ready again. I remember Mike Shildt would have his batters carry the bat with them to first on foul balls or whatever and drop it halfway up the line to make the batboy go and get it to delay Suter.
Like CIN’s pitching moves this offseason
His pops threw forkball and spoke with forked tongue. Also a crazy 80s Mary Lou Retton perm.
he’s a good player and a fun guy. very bright. i was hoping the crew would sign him but they don’t really have any spots available either. reds got a nice deal here.
And one of the funniest guys in the league. Has a great future in the booth after his career
I still sense a trade may be coming involving India, CES or Marte as centerpiece for another SP. Otherwise, bringing Candelerio in just cost $15M a year to jam up the corner infield. An injury or slump would free it up but a trade of one of the three and an injury we can always bring Steer back to infield. Something needs to happen or a MLB starter will ride pine every game. We Wii soon find out
yes! we wii!
Your complaining about depth. Personally India has shown border line average of anything. He would be the first to get limited playing time. Candelerio made little sence but it adds a switch hitting good hitter to the mix.
Personally I like the roster it seems that guys like williamson, cruz, lodolo, antone, young/moll, some of those guys will start in AAA and be up when an injury comes up as quality depth.
The main thing is marte, mclain, elly, Ces better play everyday in the INF or DH at a point because that is the most talented INF in baseball.
Marte, Candelario, and CES will man in no particular order 1B, 3B, & DH. Candelario replaces all those inferior ABs from Newman, Senzel, Barrero, Vosler, Myers, etc. He is a legit middle of the order bat. Now when you have a Sunday, a travel day, an injury, or someone taking a day off you won’t have an inferior lineup. India is the odd man out because he has no position flex and has been a bit average the last couple of years. He’s a decent bat off the bench, but he’s gonna need to learn to play another position or two to get more playing time. McLain will get most of the starts at second base, as he should.
That’s my point. India is the odd man out and while some on this site says he has little value I don’t. I think that as the roster stands now McLain is deservingly the 2B. However if one of the three players I mentioned IS traded I have no problem with India at second, McLain at SS and EDLC at 3B. If our excess infielders can be shipped for a TOR pitcher then we should.
I really like this signing. Never can have too many RPs. I also like the fact that Suter knows what it takes to pitch in our division.