After an underwhelming 2021 rookie season, Ha-Seong Kim has emerged as a standout big leaguer over the last two years, posting an 8.1 fWAR due to his combination of above-average (109 wRC+) hitting, excellent baserunning, and top-tier defense. The Padres have certainly gotten a great return on the four-year, $28MM contract they signed to attract Kim from the KBO League during the 2020-21 offseason, yet with Kim now entering the final year of that deal, his time in San Diego could be running short.
While a mutual option is in place for the 2025 season, such options are almost never exercised by both parties, and the 28-year-old Kim seems like a lock to again hit the open market next winter now that he has an established MLB track record. If the Padres don’t feel they can extend or re-sign the infielder, a trade remains a possibility, and The Athletic’s Dennis Lin writes that “internally, at least, San Diego has been discussing the idea for weeks.”
Whether or not a trade actually happens remains to be seen, as a Padres official told Lin that the return would need to be “way above the line” to get the club to actually move Kim. In addition, Kim will also naturally be one of the centerpieces of the season-opening two-game series between the Padres and Dodgers in Seoul on March 20-21, and Lin doubts that the Friars take the awkward position of moving a Korean star prior to the first MLB regular-season games to ever take place in South Korea.
That being said, adding multiple long-term assets for one year of Kim’s services is obviously a tempting concept for a Padres team that has a lot of needs to address. Trading Kim would create a big hole in San Diego’s infield, though the team is still in dire need of outfielders and as many as two starting pitchers to slot behind Yu Darvish, Joe Musgrove, and the newly-acquired Michael King. The high cost of pitching would make signing a starter more expensive for the Padres than perhaps signing an infielder as a stopgap Kim replacement, plus top prospect Jackson Merrill could be part of the big league infield picture at some point in 2024.
Cost-cutting has been one of the major storylines of the San Diego offseason, and since the Padres seem to be stepping back from their financial splurges of the last couple of seasons, retaining Kim looks like less of a possibility. The team is reportedly looking to reduce spending to around $200MM in payroll in 2024, and ideally get under the $237MM luxury tax threshold if possible. After signing Yuki Matsui and Woo Suk Go to upgrade the bullpen, the Padres are projected (via Roster Resource) to have a $156.3MM payroll and a tax number of just under $212MM, so there isn’t a ton of flexibility for the team to add meaningful outfield and rotation help.
Kim is a big part of this financial picture, in the sense that he’s quite a bargain at only an $8MM salary. Since Manny Machado might be limited to early-season DH duty while he recovers from elbow surgery, Kim carries even greater import within San Diego’s infield, as he might be needed to handle third base while Machado heals up. Jake Cronenworth would likely move first base to second base in the event of a Kim trade, but that would then leave the Padres in need of a first baseman and at least a temporary replacement at the hot corner.
It isn’t a reach to suggest that Kim might be just about the most prized trade asset on the market if the Padres made him available, as Lin notes that the Friars have already drawn “widespread interest” in Kim from rival teams. Though he primarily played second base last season, Kim won the NL utility Gold Glove for his all-around defensive work at second, third, and shortstop. Considering how many contenders and would-be contenders have a need at at least one of these infield positions, up to half the league could be seen as plausible suitors to bid on Kim, even if some teams are better equipped than others to meet San Diego’s high asking price.
Kim’s $8MM salary might fit the budget of smaller-market teams like the Rays, Guardians, Pirates, or Royals, though perhaps only Tampa (who has a long history of trades with the Padres) is the only true World Series contender of that group that might be inspired to make an all-in move to land Kim. The Brewers, Blue Jays, Mariners, Giants, Angels, Tigers, Cubs, and Marlins all have holes to fill in their infield, even if San Francisco might be less likely if San Diego doesn’t want to deal Kim within the NL West. Clubs like the Twins, Braves, Yankees, Red Sox, or Phillies are more speculative candidates since another infielder probably would have to be moved to create space for Kim, but an aggressive play can’t be ruled out.
Though Kim is only under contract for 2024, some teams might view him as a longer-term opportunity if they feel they have a chance to extend or re-sign him next offseason. Even if clubs could also see a Kim trade as strictly a move for the coming season, he is certainly a candidate to receive a qualifying offer, so a team could recoup a draft pick as compensation if he signed elsewhere.
No.
Yes. Trade HSK if it makes the team better.
No one is trading the Padres something that will make their immediate team better for one year of Kim. Or any other player that’s a rental.
That is the issue. A player on a one year contract doesn’t return anywhere near much as fans hope. Lin’s suggestion that “the return would need to be ‘way above the line’” doesn’t tell us much as it doesn’t tell us where the Padres view the line. It does appear they’re positioning him for a trade regardless. They’re probably better off keeping him now if their goal is to contend. They can move him at the trade deadline for a mid level prospect or two if they’re out of it.
You don’t know that. If someone gives up something close to what they got for Soto I would argue that would help the padres more this year
@Simm Those dudes aren’t helping more than Soto would have. I could maybe see it if the Padres had depth in the areas where Soto helps them but they really don’t. Outfielders and lefty bats who get on base? Padres don’t have those.
They do have depth where Kim plays so by your own words they could find someone that helps them.
They would still put up less WAR in 2024 than Kim would.
You don’t actually know that either. One you can guess Kim will add around d 4 war. If they get multiple players back for Kim they very well can produce those numbers. Plus will be under control for longer and continue to possibly produce.
You are just speculating but making it sound like facts. Nobody know what Kim will produce next year and nobody knows who they would trade him for and their production
Just to clear up any confusion and not waste any more of anyone else’s time: No one is trading a player (or package of players) who will produce 4 WAR in 2024 for 1 year of Ha-Seong Kim.
You don’t know that. Padres will very likely get 4 we from the Soto trade that even if Thorpe give zero. You have no idea what anyone will put up for war next year because you don’t have a crystal ball. So stop acting like you know.
If those dudes are likely to put up more WAR than Soto in 2024 as you say why did the Yankees trade them all for 1 year of Soto? Is it your statement that the Yankees made their immediate team worse just to trade for Juan Soto’s last arb year at $31m?
Because they can sign pitchers, they couldn’t sign a Soto. Pretty simple to figure out.
But if they had those pitchers they wouldn’t need to sign Soto because according to you they will put up more WAR than Soto in 2024. And from there they can use the money you think they can spend on pitchers now plus the $25.5m salary difference from Soto to the players they gave up in the trade on bats.
You are struggling to get it. Let me explain it for you.
Let’s say the players the padres got back put up a 6 war combined. So why would the Yankees trade 6 war for 6 war and lose future value for the right to pay Soto so much money.
Because they aren’t getting anywhere near 6 war from left field without Soto. Let’s say they get 1 war from left field without Soto. 1 war plus 6 war equals 7 war. Maybe they would have gotten more then 1 war in left perhaps 2 war. Making it 8 war.
Now you get the 6 war from Soto in left plus the war you get in signing pitchers that replace the war they lost. Perhaps they get another 4-6 war from the pitchers signed to replace the ones trade to the padres. Now they have gotten 10-12 war vs the 6-8 before they made the trade. The value of getting all that war from one player vs 4 means you get even more total war.
I’m sure you will still struggle to understand this but that’s the reason.
“Let’s say the players the padres got back put up a 6 war combined.”
They won’t but I’ll humor you.
“Because they aren’t getting anywhere near 6 war from left field without Soto.”
Who says they have to get it from Soto specifically? You say they still have money left over to sign pitchers even after trading for Soto. Well if they don’t trade for Soto and then use that money (plus the $31m they wouldn’t be spending on Soto in this scenario) on bats then they should have no problem signing bats that will produce more WAR than the pitchers you think they will somehow be able to sign.
In reality, Soto and Grisham will easily put up more WAR than the pitchers the Yankees traded for them. Stop being so obtuse and admit that no one is trading a package that will help the other team more in the upcoming year for one year of any player. Brian Cashman isn’t going to trade players who will put up more WAR for one guy who is making $31m in 2024. That would be a fireable offense.
And I don’t want to hear about how “ThE yAnKeEs CaN eXtEnD sOtO !”
I will as soon as you share your crystal ball. There have been a gazillion trades where a team traded a big named player away and the very next year the other team received more war the following season.
Stop acting like you know because you don’t have a crystal ball you know no more than anyone else here does. It’s just a guess…. I you said I think then okay…fine but you talk like you know and you don’t know.
Name 5 lol
Just tell me how much war next year Soto will achieve and how much the players the padres got back will achieve. You being able to view the future should just save the rest of us the trouble of even wondering.
Simm, Often multiple players combined will put up more war than a single player. That doesn’t necessarily mean it is better.
The way you seem to valuing trades, is in a vacuum. Nothing depends on anything else.
A 4 war player, can be traded for 3 other players that all 3 together value 6.
6 does not often > than 4.
Yes, in a vacuum it does.
It discounts the idea that the other 2 less players can value anything on their own.
Often in chats, people are making an educated guess. A %.
Yes, no one has a crystal ball.
But some things are generally understood, without having to preface everything they say with “most probably”
It’s generally understood, that trading a superstar will (often more than not) lessen your immediate value. The reason to trade high value is to usually hope for value later.
Yes, sometimes trading a high value player , gets more value immediately. But rarely.
In your reality, teams would line up to trade their best players, to get better value back, both now and in the future.
Why do teams prefer to keep high value players?
Soto averages 6.1 WAR per year. That’s not his personal best, it’s what he *averages.* The dudes they got in the trade won’t sniff that.
And that doesn’t even take into account the fact that the Yankees are getting that production out of 1 roster spot which is more valuable than getting it out of 5.
I actually stated the same thing you did. Getting more war or equal war from one player has more value then getting the same or near the same as receiving 4 players. That is the case because the team that had a single player receive the high war will likely get more war out of the other 3 guys the replaced the ones that were traded. The disagreement here is he act like he knows what each player in this trade will accumulate via war. Maybe Soto out of wars then maybe he doesn’t. I don’t know but either does he. If you asked me Soto plus 3 others vs what the padres got back I’d say the Yankees most likely will be ahead in war.
Okay what will the guys get that the padres traded for. 2 war, 3 war…since you know let me know. We all know you have it figured out. Please share with the rest of us.
Well there you go. The Padres did’tt get better for 2024 with that trade. They won’t get better for 2024 if they trade HSK either. The point of trading rentals is to add years of control to the roster.
Of course but also to fill needs where you have holes. Padres would be trading Kim from a position of strength. Unlike a be Soto trade.
Cadagan gets it
@Simm I’d say the issue is most teams seeking a rental on Kim aren’t going to be giving up big league ready talent that will be producing on MLB level to the tune of 4-6 WAR.
Now if SD does not plan on contending this season that’s a different story. Easily they could flip him for prospects.
@Simm the issue is 25 man roster is a finite resource. You can only trade so many single players acquiring multiple players for your 25 man roster.
Only team I could see dealing off the major league roster for Kim is the Marlins and that’s only because their roster is so pitcher heavy. Most teams aren’t going to trade a player who would help them for a rental.
Fact is, the team can’t spend like it was now Seidler is gone.
Don’t like it? 29 other teams you can root for.
“Can’t.”
Have you seen the books?
And if they “can’t” sell the team to someone who can.
You’re not worth any more time after this post if that’s your response.
We aren’t a big market team. Can’t spend like the big teams if we don’t bring in the revenue they do.
Sell the team? Let your step dad know the Padres are for sale, maybe he’ll make an offer.
Have YOU seen the books???
Entitlement sucks……
Entitlement?! Because I want the Padres to win?!
Get off your self righteous high horse.
Calling me entitled?!
Can’t or won’t. What’s the difference?
“Can’t” but were top 3 in payroll last year?
Market size is an excuse.
You have money, you can spend it if you want to.
“Have you seen the books?”
Padres fans don’t need to. San Diego remains the 25th to 28th Media Market in MLB. As a fan, I’m thankful for ALL the extra money that Peter Seidler found to invest into the team, but it was always unsustainable long-term.
You think the Padres can only win if they outspend everyone else???
Entitlement sucks….
Market size dis not derermine spending over the last few years.
Where there was a will there was a way.
The ‘who’ is the ownership group determines spending.
Nothing against the Seidler family. Don’t believe this is there fault.
I beleive there has been a seismic shift in the Padres ownership group.
Not just Peter Seidlers passing but a restructuring alltogether of Padres ownership.
Parties with leverage and capital,like the Helus have been maneuvered around by other parties within the Padres ownership group.
Benji Gil was the Helus choice for manager and when that hiring was passed over a clear message was sent.
I believe the Helus have pulled a substantial amount of funding for this team.
When funding was pulled, the old arguments of “market size” and luxury tax, debt service rules re-surfaced.
MLB as a whole, also did not like the way the Padres were doing business.
Teams identifying as “small markets” did not want fans of those teams to use the Padres expenditures as a reason to demand their owners spend more. The Padres set the bar high for “smaller markets”.
Just read the tea leaves.
There was a will because the owner was dying. That’s not sustainable.
I do.
Tell me how and when it worked for the Padres in the past when the spent in the bottom five in payroll?
How did it work in say 2008, 2009, 2011-2014?
How was it in 1999 after the WS when the team cut payroll?
How was it in the early 90s when the Padres conducted a fire sale and sent Fenandez, McGriff and Sheffield were traded?
How did 1993 turn out?
I could keep going.
Nearly two thirds of the time during the Padres nearly 60 years of existence the Padres have spent near the bottom in payroll in MLB.
What have the results been? Six playoff appearances. Two WS appearances and one WS win.
Just saying.
There is a difference between bottom 5 in payroll and what the Padres have done the last couple years. As is tue case often the answer is in the middle.
No WS dubs, just the 2 pennants, but those were fun years, indeed.
If winning a WS can be done with a middle of the pack payroll, im.fine with that.
Spending usually equates to wanting to win.
Look at the Rangers, who spent an arm and a leg and finally won their first WS.
A team like the Rays gets close but when that extra little push is needed financially, they hold back. Close is all the Rays have been to winning a WS.
The A’s pre-move have been in the same boat.
The will has to be there.
Where there was a will there was a way.
==============================
Now that’s funny. In the real world, there are only numbers. I remember when I told my boss to buy out Duke Energy, and he told me he was $67B short.
I told him if there is a will, there is a way.
The freaking owner died dude.
Siedler was a point man for the Sedler Equity Group comprised of multiple investors, not just the Seidler family.
Peter Seidler made decisions on behalf of the group.
The owner was dying that’s why he was spending like that. Now that he’s dead things have changed.
Ah, exactly, only numbers.
We haven’t seen the books.
That’s a convenient narrative.
Yes, though major respect for Peter Seidler and who.he was an owner and amazing individual.
Also one of the teams with the highest attendance
Padres were top 3 in payroll because the old man was dying from cancer and spent with reckless abandon to try and win a WS before his death.
Bro they had to take out a $50 million loan just to run that payroll LOL
How did it work in 2015, or 2023, when the Padres spent on big-name free agents. Preller tried it twice. Did not work.
You want the Padres to spend. Not necessarily the same thing. When they spent more than they should have (per MLB), they didn’t win. Your suggestion is to continue to do the same. There’s a word for continuing to do the same thing, and expecting different results. What’s that word?
Look at the Rangers. They won, but because their TV broadcasts are also at risk, they are not spending this off-season either.
Kutsenda was actually the lead at SEP since Peter started spending his time with the team.
This is the problem. It’s a bunch of people on here spending other people’s money that have little real world experience.
@Joel P. Entitlement is fine as long as it’s me who is entitled. 🙂
Only big name free agent the Padres signed in 2015 was Shields and that worked out just fine when he was traded for FTJ.
Justin Upton just a chump. AAAA.
Yes! The Giants should give up a great package for him as long as he agrees to an extension like the Dodgers did with Glasnow.
Kim to third, Cronenworth to second and sign Joey Votto. Done. No one is trading Kim’s value.
Should have used that Bogaerts money on pitching instead. But, at least Padres were going for it, just allocated it to an area that wasn’t a need I think.
It is clear Seidler knew he was passing soon and told preller and co acquire another superstar at any cost.
Then he did a good job since he got Bogaerts at a bargain AAV. Considering the cost of FA this offseason Bogaerts was cheap.
Interestingly, Bogaerts also had the best season of the 3 players the Padres were known to be in on.
Adding a 5 WAR shortstop is never a bad thing.
He wasn’t as good defensively as Dansby but Sea son was only average in terms of his offense. Cubs got him for a hundred million less than Bogaerts.
Except when the acquiring team didn’t need a SS and when the new SS has defensive metrics that indicate a future move to 2B would be prudent (if mgmt was not compelled to keep XB there).
If Miami owner would take the Seidler route (I liked him pushing more aggressively-not just because he was Walter O’Malley’s grandson), they could acquire Bogaerts for one from their wealth of SP’s.
Except for when you need pitching, which was the point the op made.
Bogaerts is not a SS. When Kim is on the team, and you don’t play him at SS, you hurt the team. Kim should have played SS, Cronenworth 2B, and XB to 1B. Unfortunately, Bogaerts brings his ego with him.
Padres needed a SS and a bat.
Padres knew for sure that Tatis would never play SS again. They also didn’t know how well Tatis would adjust after being off the field for more than a year and coming back from a serious surgery so they also needed to add a high end bat to the lineup.
They tried for Turner and when they didn’t get him they went to their 2nd choice and got him at a bargain basement $25 million AAV.
Bogaerts had been MUCH better than Kim at SS the previous 2 seasons and it wasn’t even a close comparison.
Bogaerts has been an above average defensive SS for 2 seasons now. No reason to move him to 2B and you have to be really stupid or a sportswriter creating clickbait to suggest the Padres should.
So far Bogaerts has been better than Turner or Judge.
At just $25.45 million AAV and using what was a bad season for him as the basis for age regression calculations, Bogaerts will provide a surplus value through his age 36 season. 7 out of 11 seasons as a plus. The Padres, or any other team for that matter, cannot ask for much better on a long-term contract.
Bogaerts is a SS.
An above average defensive SS.
One of the top bats at SS.
And the #3 SS in terms of WAR over the past 3 seasons.
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?lg=all&qua…
No matter how you slice it, Bogaerts is a SS and a great one too.
No one disputes Bogaerts’ value as a hitter. But he is well below average as a defensive SS. In fact, for a key defensive position, he’s borderline defensive liability.
-54 DRS
-31 OAA
fangraphs.com/players/xander-bogaerts/12161/stats?…
The last 2 seasons he is above average. 8 OAA and 7 DRS.
Looking back that far just makes you look stupid. RIGHT NOW he is above average.
It’s sad that you have to switch to another one of your accounts to defend your poor arguments.
Well, you’re not good at math. 5 DRS in 2022, and -4 in 2023 equal 1, not 7.
2 seasons of defensive metrics is right to get a reasonable picture, but It’s generally recognized that 3 seasons is even better. Over the last 3 seasons it’s -4 DRS, and -1 OAA.
Very few are as good as Dansby defensively at short.
Yep that Bogaerts deal was dumb dumb dumb.
Putting him batting fourth was dumb dumb dumb . he batted .100 with RISP and was at the top of league hitting into DP .
I was wondering when they were going to move Bogaerts and Cronenworth because they were rally killers batting 4th and 5th. If they had some decent run production with RISP, I am sure they would have qualified for the playoffs.
They won’t move him any time soon. What part of 4.4 WAR and above average defense at SS do you not understand?
De Vries and Merrill will push the envelope though, assuming both don’t get traded. And it’s now official, they signed De Vries about 15 minutes ago
Padres had already picked up pitching when they signed Bogaerts and didn’t need more pitching last offseason. The ended up having the best pitching staff in baseball last season. What they didn’t know was how Tatis would rebound from more than a year away from baseball or if Kim”s 2022 season was an anomaly or if Soto would be what they saw in 2022 or if he would extend. That is why they were all in on Judge and Turner. Bogaerts was a fall back but a good one. He was the sure thing bat they needed.
Padres allowed the second fewest runs, were tied for 4th in ERA+, 11th in FIP, 13th in Whip…
While they had a good staff overall last year, I can find no evidence that they “ended up having the best pitching staff in baseball last season.”
#1 in ERA. #2 in Runs Allowed. Arguably the best pitching staff in baseball
#2 in ERA… Brewers 3.71, Padres 3.73
Once again, no category where they were first
Didn’t the Padres starters have the lowest era in baseball?
Regardless according to FWAR their hitting and pitching were both top 7 in baseball and their defense was excellent too. Crazy to say that and miss the playoffs when 16 teams do.
#1 in ERA
fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?lg=all&qua…
Lugo and Wacha? Both were question marks. SS was not.
Yea I don’t understand that move. They had least had some idea money was tight that year, have to take out a 50M loan then to make payroll plus now letting players walk and not being able to sign guys. They were over everybody that year to weren’t they? Throwing 300M contracts at multiple players. I know they were only signing 1 but my point being usually you have A guy you are willing to go big for and maybe another as a fall back, if I’m not mistaken there were big deals thrown at 4 guys
How many people are going to mention a loan that was for the teams developments as if that means they are broke? Including a $1.5 billion one next to their ballpark. Its not like it hasn’t been mentioned 50 or 60 times in the comments here.
You mean this development?
cisterra.com/tailgatepark
And the $50 million loan from Ascendant Capital
Or this upgrade to Petco Park?
10news.com/lifestyle/exploring-san-diego/20m-upgra….
Pretty obvious that the loan which came after the final payroll had already been paid was NOT for payroll. But the fact that it’s for capital improvements to the ballpark and to complete the purchase of the land for Tailgate Park from the city of San Diego is not something that gets many people to click on sportswriters articles.
Thanks. Couldn’t remember what it was called but remembered seeing all of the Padres fans posting it.
That was not an either or decision. The Padres needed both a SS and a high-end bat. Bogaerts provided both.
The Padres knew for sure that Tatis would never play SS again. They also didn’t know how well Tatis would adjust after being off the field for more than a year and coming back from a serious surgery so they also needed to add a high end bat to the lineup.
They tried for Turner and when they didn’t get him they went to their 2nd choice and got him at a bargain basement $25 million AAV.
Bogaerts had been MUCH better than Kim at SS the previous 2 seasons and it wasn’t even a close comparison.
The Padres and even Soto’s agent said that he was expected to be a Padre in 2024. That was before he turned down an extension offer in excess of $500 million from the Padres. Him being traded had nothing to do with signing Bogaerts.
Let’s go Giants
Sorry Joel, I agree with Humm!
Pencilled maybe, but I think they would love to ink in a shortstop. Luciano/Schmitt is far from guaranteed.
They need to shake it up. If they got Kim and put him at 2nd, batting 2nd and they could use Estrada as the backup/ utility guy. Grab Bellinger and the speed at the top of the lineup would change the team drastically for the better.
Don’t worry oldgfan, there’s still time to change the complexion of the lineup and we all know the Giants need to get more athletic. It is starting to look like the Boras clients are not going to sign until spring training, and the report yesterday was Snell was seeking 9 years/270 million which is insane so I can only imagine what he wants for Bellinger. The Bellinger we saw with the Cubs last year would be great to have but he could turn into a pumpkin again and nobody wants to be saddled with a massive overpay that doesn’t produce, it’s the worst feeling
Not worried. I’m the patient guy who can wait until the season starts before judging the offseason. Always will support SFG. The possibilities of youth and speed taking part moving forward is exciting. I do think the market on Bellinger has narrowed. Snell not so much. Not my money though so spend away ! One long term contract won’t kill em. It’s nothing like Yanks or Dogs have to deal with.
One long term contract that doesn’t pan out could kill Giants ownership though. Other teams just acknowledge their mistakes, release guys, and eat the money. But the Giants are slow to do that if ever. They finally let Rowand go but how long did we have to watch him trotted out there.
People often say “not my money” but it is your money, we fans buy tickets, pay for tv deals to watch our team, and buy merchandise. So we do drive the car somewhat and I am glad that Zaidi is so thoughtful and careful. I’m sure Z has a number in mind for Bellinger (if he is interested) and he rarely goes over that number, he was willing to for Ohtani because he is a rare talent but I don’t think he will go to some crazy number to sign Belli, too risky. Belli was so lost at the plate for two years that nobody even wanted him last year. I’m glad he has figured it back out in Chicago, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t without risk, especially long time.
I am very excited to see more kids come up and everyone will be one more year ahead. Things are looking up!
You seem very reasonable oldgfan, do you want to join a Giants blog I am on? It’s a small group of old school Giants fans who are friendly and like to watch games together during the season, it is quiet during the winter but some of us discuss trades or whatever they are doing with their life. It’s very low key, and no mean people allowed, ha ha! No worries but if you are interested I can post the URL or if there is a way I can contact you? I wish MLBTR had private messaging.
I do think he will try. Agree that Chapman would be an easier get. Just hope he realizes that would not really be an upgrade now, and blocks Schmitt who might end up a good player. Compare his 2023 with Matt Williams first year.
Wow dog.
I’m way out on that Matt.
Not seeing that at all. Career suicidal move at this point for sure.
Lee, Murphy, Ray, & Hicks were not “dumpster dives” so far and he’s not done yet. I choose to have a bit more faith.
I’m a sd fan and i kinda want them to pay too much for Chapman. They’re not dumpster divers, it’s just that no one wants to play for them.
Bellinger only produces in contract years. Another Ellsbury or Bryant. Only 1 year contracts for Bellinger or they will regret it.
They’ve been trying to lure a big star pretty much every year since Stanton invoked his NTC bc he didn’t want to go to SF.
I’m on one of Chapman or Bellinger with Davis or Conforto to DH. Would like a shortstop via trade. Kim would be awesome.
Can’t see Snell happening. Too many walks and too many years for the Giants. I think he will run with the young as indicated.
@oldg
Dude. Chill. It’s ok to disagree.
@davey
Ha ha. The insults. Unnecessary. You come across as an insecure fwit. Your call though. Carry on.
Ha ha. I’ve dealt with worse.
You keep doing you, champion. You are on fire.
…….on the internet.
Stanton, Harper, Judge, Ohtani, Yamamoto, and on and on and on
Private messaging and or private chat rooms would be awesome.
If you think Zaidi is interested in Carpenter, then I think you have zero clue about Zaidi. He might pass on Bellinger, and I really hope he does, and it’s not because he couldn’t sign Bellinger, but no way is he signing Carpenter.
The Giants already have better guys at the bottom of the 40 man roster than Carpenter. No way is he going to DFA anyone to make room for Carpenter. I suggest you go to Fangraphs and read the ZIPS projection for the Giants since you seem to have a faulty perception of the team.
blogs.fangraphs.com/2024-zips-projections-san-fran…
davey gee, You seem to be under the impression that if Zaidi doesn’t sign Bellinger or Chapman, it’s because he either won’t spend the money, or he’s simply unable.
You don’t seem to understand that there’s another reason. Even though he could, perhaps Zaidi doesn’t want to sign either guy. I believe this is the case simply because I hope he doesn’t sign either guy.
Perhaps Zaidi sees 10-12 years of a guy like Bellinger, or 6 years for Chapman, as potentially bad, albatross contracts. Bellinger has a high ceiling, but also a low floor, making him a huge gamble. And perhaps sees a Chapman signing as only a marginal upgrade that costs more than the value of that upgrade. And if so, I agree with him.
Agreed that Carpenter is roached.
Sorry Davey.
Wow dog is an expression I have used for years. Truly didn’t mean to offend.
Would it be seen as gauche for SD and another team to agree to a trade before the season, but don’t announce it until after the first two games in South Korea?
So, basically Kim spends spring training with SD, and the first two games, then the other team gets 160 games with Kim?
Why would another team agree to this?
Take it or leave it.
The idea crossed my mind to, but it is a little weird. It would have to be he’s traded for PTBNL and goes to said team for ST, deal in place to play 2 for Padres. If he gets hurt then said PTBNL are nobody’s or a lot less then if he doesn’t get hurt. Would have to have wording about PTBNL is X if Kim misses more then 6 weeks due to injury that happened during loan. Something along that
Didn’t the Padres sign another Korean a reliever? Maybe they can sign Shin Soo Choo for a day…..
He Sop Choi is available
Now that’s a name I’ve not heard in a long time, a long time.
Baseball reference states the mutual “option” is for $1 and has a buyout of 2 MM, which I think should be added to the article. I always assumed the AAV would be 7 MM, regardless of the buyout structure. What is SD gaining from structuring the contract that way?
The details are not known. The $1 is a placeholder. Cot’s has estimates for 2022-2025 in their summary, too.
Of course every team would trade any player for the “right offer” but that doesn’t make Kim a realistic trade candidate. For what he provides at $7 million the Padres would have to receive an obvious overpay. Opposing GMs won’t be willing to overpay for a single season of a player whose price is going to easily triple in free agency.
Trading Kim would be idiotic, even by AJ Preller’s standards.
Except Brian Cashman who traded for Juan Soto, right?
Why even entertain the idea? I didn’t like the Soto trade but it addressed a clear need. Middle infield is one of the more stable areas of the team.
So should have the Yankees addressed a clear need by trading for Soto or not? And is Cashman the only GM willing to trade for a one-year rental? I’m failing to under your position.
So should have the Yankees addressed a clear need by trading for Soto or not?
=========================
Probably not at the expense of creating a new need. Now their OF is Judge, Soto, Verdugo, Grisham and, at some point, Dominguez.
It didn’t even create a need, it increased an already existing one. Soto is a good player and I suppose I can understand a team overpaying for him if they think they’re in their contention window, but the Yankees gave up pitching when they already needed more pitching. The offseason isn’t over, so maybe they expect to add more, but right now they have Rodon who is a ? and they added Stroman, who is also a ?. That is not a rotation I’d have a ton of faith in.
That trade really didn’t make a ton of sense IMO.
Well overpaying for Soto and overpaying for Kim are like apples and oranges. I didn’t love it, but what Soto brings is elite in comparison.
That said, I like HSK alot and he’ll most likely move at the deadline.
The Soto and Kim situations aren’t comparable. Soto is being paid $31M, and Kim $7M. SD wanted to reduce salary. Trading Soto was a no-brainer, as is not trading Kim.
I think a major part of the discussion that’s missing is the executive direction to Preller. The article suggests it is highly unlikely that Kim is traded, understandably. But, if the current ownership wants to begin stockpiling talent to reduce payroll, then it is entirely plausible that Preller moves Kim for the best return he can get.
In fact, one team (also listed among the many suitors) that strikes me as a great candidate for trading with SDP is Miami. They’re loaded with pitching (which seems to be a need for SD) and they’re in need of a SS.
Be nice to be playing for the Braves …
Would become the starting SS upon arrival!
Cool. Send the padres
RHP Waldrep #100 on mlb top 100
RHP Darius Vines #9
1B/3b David McCabe #14
C Drake Baldwin #26
OFJesse Franklin V #20
Agreed. I like Arcia as a super utility more than SS, though as fine with him remaining. Just for fun, I wonder what a return package would require?
And padres fans still in denial about the teams financial situation
How so? Padre stated they are resetting the luxury tax which appears to be the main strategic priority. The CEO said a couple weeks ago the padres are in fine shape revenue-wise to field similar payroll moving forward.
The Padres have not said anything other than that they will not have a $291 million CBT payroll. An ARTICLE said that “people familiar with the Padres thinking” said they PREFER to stay under the CBT for 2024, but that they might not for the right players.
BIG problem is that most people read the headlines, but not the article and almost never the articles that are referenced by this site.
They’re a Top 5 payroll, what financial situation? Resetting the CBT line is verboten?
When the Dodgers did it a few years ago they were brilliant. When the Padres do it they are broke.
Do you know why the Padres are not signing any FA that got a QO? Most people have no clue. They think its because the Padres are broke.
It is because as a revenue sharing payor that went over the CBT last season, the Padres would have to give up international free agent pool money. That would mean they could not sign Leo DeVries.
For anyone that does not know who he is, DeVries is the #1 international prospect. mlb.com/prospects/2024/international/leo-de-vries-…
He’ll immediately slot in among Snelling and Lesko giving the Pads 5 prospects ranked in MLB top 50.
That’s not true, padres signed Xander last year and lose international pool money this year and still sign Vries. Or does reduce what they can do but doesn’t mean they can’t still sign top guys.
Brew prob not immediately. Even Salas took a bit of time before they even added him to the list. Some reports say they may move Vries on the list quicker and he will likely be in the at range once scouts get a better look at him in pro ball.
Padres signing Xander reduced their bonus pool from the last signing period not the current one. And yes, it reduces what they can do but doesn’t bar them from the international market as a whole.
It literally is reduced this year. Signing period just started if they signed a QO guy this offseason it would affect next year not this year that has already started and spent most of their money.
The Padres needed both a SS
==========================
It’s an interesting strategy to devote almost 100% of your budget to one player.
@ Simm. I wasn’t thinking immediately, but within a year. Salas hit #5 MLB in less than a year. De Vries likely to be top 50. Been reading up on his skills/physical ability – off the charts.
Padres have 6 in the Top 100 now.
Salas
Merrill
Snelling
Lesko
Zavala
Thorpe
Iriarte is in other top 100 lists and probably will make the MLB list when the preseason updates come out in March and possibly Mazur and Head as well . If De Vries also is added to the top 100 that could mean the Padres have as many as 10 in the top 100.
Preller can definitely find and sign great prospects.
Rays should pass on 1 year of Kim. They already made a trade to address the SS spot & they have C. Williams in the minors who is a year or 2 away.
Get him Zaidi!
Ramos, Sabol, Beck & Winn ?
Sign Snell & Bellinger.
Hi oldgfan, I’m sure they were asking for the world to start but he only has one year of control so his asking get is shrinking we can only hope. We have to include something enticing tho. I think Z should trade for him then immediately give him a 4 or 5 year extension.
Bart, Ramos, Beck, and a single A arm?
Bart, Winn, Villar, Maui Ahuna?
Bart, Reggie Crawford, single A arm?
Walker Martin, Harrison, Whisenhunt, Black, Birdsong, Meckler, Eldridge are all untouchable
4 times zero still equals zero. The Padres have no desire for any of those players. Either the Giants are willing to trade their “untouchables” or don’t bother calling.
Hey Java, Beck is starting now and a solid pitcher, look him up
Maui Ahuna was drafted last year and is a good SS prospect, look him up
Reggie Crawford was drafted two years ago and is a two way hopeful, look him up.
The other players I listed, while not top flight can all start in the majors on opening day and have strengths, that is nothing to sneeze at.
All have success at major league level. Not just prospects.
I think Sabol should be enticing for them. Not to mention two controllable arms that can start right away. The extension factor for Kim would be a must.
Sorry Agnes. You know I’d like to agree with you but Javia is right. If Kim is good enough to get a QO as Polishuk suggests then it will take lot more to get Kim. My guess is SD will wait till trade deadline.
oldgfan, you are right on Sabol—he can catch, play OF, and now has options, he’s very valuable. I think we can find a package that would work. The biggest obstacle is if they will trade in division. But they should. It’s all for one and one for all vs the ugly blue dodgers
Why do Giants fans start every trade offer with Bart? Bart has negative value to the Padres, he would get cut before opening day. The Padres starter, Campusano, has a lifetime 104-OPS+. Higashioka has excellent defense and a lifetime OPS+ of 76. Bart? 75. He is out of options. He will get cut. He is worthless to the Padres.
Claude, we can wait then. Zaidi is very patient. There’s no reason to overpay. We can see how Luciano and Schmitt do at SS first. Even Thairo can man SS, he isn’t as good defensively there as he is at 2B but he’s a viable backup at SS.
If the trade happens, it happens. If not, no biggie. More fish in the sea. Walker Martin is our SS of the future and there are other trades to make. No panic. And no, Java is not right.
Not all of us…
I left him out for all the reasons you listed, but would use him as a toss in in any deal if there was any interest.
Chill Java, if your Pads don’t want Bart then they can have Sabol, he’s wonderful. There’s plenty of options to trade.
The GMs/presidents will agree to a package or they won’t, it’s not the end of the world.
No way the Padres take Bart off the Giants’ hands.
Not too mention Salas on the horizon
Sabol would be a great fit as left platoon DH, 4th Outfielder, 3rd Catcher combination for many teams.
Sabol barely had a .300 OBP, hard to call him wonderful.
These names being mentioned look like low likelihood on the position player side to becoming everyday players in the bigs and the arms being mentioned as options look more like solid RP or spot starters versus having real (think 40% or better) odds of being #4 or better rotation arms.
Preller is going to need something to actually dream on to part with Kim, and that’s ignoring the division rival aspect. Role players and 2nd/3rd tier arms isn’t going to cut it.
I could see a package of Yastrzemski, Whisenhunt and a MLB ready arm like Black being the cost for the Giants. Yas is 33 and makes more then Kim, but he’ be a nice OF addition for at least 2024. He could be a non tender guy if his bat backs up since he’s an older arb player that was a Super 2 that will be around 10m regardless in 2025.
No Bart, no Sabol, no Helliot Ramos, no David Pillar. Sabol might be the only big leaguer of the bunch and his poor bb/k ratio seems unlikely to be a SD target.
I think Beck and Winn could be involved in such a trade, just don’t think either would be the best piece you’d have to part with.
You’re joking right? The MLBTR writer lists half the league as potential fits and you think they’d trade him in division for spare parts?
Yaz would not be a deal killer for me if Bellinger was added, but it’s not up to us fans. The inter division thing is the biggest hurdle.
lol Yaz doesn’t move the needle for sd
Valenzuela, Sullivan and King are better prospects at this point than Bart – at least they haven’t proven that they can’t perform at mlb level yet!
No trade then padrepapi, keep him this year and let him walk for nothing in free agency. It’s up to Preller, and whatever is fine. Nobody knows the evaluations of these prospects, not you, not me, and not most beat writers. Look back at some trades in the last 10 years, fans (including me) always overvalue their own players but in reality, the trades haven’t netted that much.
Ha vpsd, I’m sure you know exactly what the trade will be so why don’t you tell us then since you are so smart!?! I freely admit I have no idea what will happen, this is just a discussion board and people are offering up trades. The guys I offered are not spare parts. Be happy not bitter
agnes hooch,
Bart, Ramos, Beck and a single A arm…
two guys that had .500 ops in the bigs, an arm that doesn’t strike out much, and a single A arm… that package is garbage for a highly valuable big league.
Your other trading swapping out Ramos, Beck and single A arm for Winn (see comment re Beck), Villar a 26 year old corner bat that was overmatched by big league pitching and a 4th round pick who likely wouldn’t be a top 20 prospect in the Padres system… equally poor offer.
Normally in trades for a good player you have to give up pieces that you might actually miss, not pieces that likely aren’t in the long term plans or possibly even big leaguers in the very near future.
Good news is I doubt Farhan would call up A.J. and make such crap offers.
A 1st round compensatory pick isn’t exactly nothing gooch. It’s better than a lot of these offers in fact.
Anyone in their right mind would prefer a year of cheap all star level production and a 1st round comp pick to taking a mess of mid from their division rival.
padrepapi, changing my name to hooch is all I needed to read, that is rude and childish and not called for. Are you so insecure that you have to resort to name calling? I was just having a discussion. The players I offered are not crap. Since you know so much, you call the trade then. Go to Elon’s twitter and be an arse, most people are nice here and you are just being rude for no reason.
Agnes – I note that the g and h are side by side on keyboard. Might explain what you jumped on as “name calling”. Maybe it was intentional, I don’t know. Just a thought.
Papi strongly disagrees with your trade proposals as I do fwiw – nothing really childish or rude if it was just a typo or even AI taking control – which I see a lot.
Maybe it was a typo Longtimecoming but I don’t think so as hooch is a real word and it isn’t a friendly one to call me.
I was just offering trades, it wasn’t etched in stone. You guys have ALL jumped down my throat and criticized me yet NONE of you have written out an offer that we can criticize back. So you only get to disagree with me if you lay your offer on the line that I can disagree back to.
Gee vpsd, I wish I was as smart as you, it must be amazing to be you
Agnes – I don’t think your rules apply. It might be that someone doesn’t even know SF’s farm system or doesn’t want to research your team to bother yet, they quickly look up your proposed guys and see that isn’t enough.
I know that would apply to me anyway.
Longtime–your logic doesn’t compute, one cannot say that my trade offer of the Giants prospects sucks and then say that they don’t know the Giants prospects to propose a trade?! That is admitting that one doesn’t know the prospects, so how can you say my offer sucks in the first place if you don’t know who they are!
I don’t know other teams prospects very well either, but I also don’t tell people their trades suck.
So be nice or be informed or both is all I ask, padrepapi was neither
Agnes, sorry for goofing on your name, it wasn’t some backhanded slight towards you, just me not paying close enough attention to catch my error. I definitely wouldn’t call a person a “hooch” on purpose!
Agnes – there is a top 100 list available online for a quick scan of the prospect names that you mention. A deep dive to find and discover others to conceive of an alternative trade isnt necessary or required to be able to say, “hey, I’ll keep HSK because those guys aren’t as good”.
You are defying your own logic – questioning the right of one to disagree you while saying you disagree with everyone else?
I did go to the trouble of looking at the stats of all the guys you brought up, their respective prospect rankings (if eligible), and even plugged the names into baseball trade value for further research before even replying.
According to BTV Kim has a surplus value of 17.9m. Your first package was worth 5.7m plus the value of the no named A ball arm. The 2nd package was better and came in at 15.2m.
I don’t love that site, but as an additional resource I’ll plug in names to see what it says.
Long story short those offers wouldn’t cut it, and I’m sorry if I wasn’t nicer expressing that, but the packages were too weak to be seriously considered.
Longtime, I never said I disagreed! Disagree all you want. I was just throwing up some ideas out of the blue, just for fun, it wasn’t even that serious and you guys all said these players sucked. I don’t think they suck so I asked what your trade proposals are then and nobody could come up with any. It’s kind of like going into a restaurant and saying the cassoulet sucks, but when the chef asks you where you like the cassoulet better or how you would cook the cassoulet differently, you just stare blankly at them and maybe repeat that their cassoulet sucks. Any time you critique something (like you did my trade notions) you have to be able to back it up with a counter offer or reason, not just they suck. I’m not replying to this anymore. I was just on here to have some fun and you San Diego fans are too uptight.
Thanks, sorry I accused you of that papi, it felt acrimonious here so I figured you were messing with me
Papi- I just tossed out those trade offers off the top of my head hours ago when this post first went up. I wasn’t entirely serious, just having fun and putting out feelers. I’m not a GM, just a fan. But I do know that most prospect rankings end up being bunk, yes the cream of the crop often makes it but most other prospects below the top, they get wrong.
You guys all think Kim is worth gold but if he gets traded to whatever team, you will find the return is good but not a teams top prospects, it isn’t happening.
This whole thread got entirely too serious for me, I’m not replying to it anymore. Baseball is supposed to be fun. You San Diego fans are way too uptight for me. Peace
@Scream_name Bart is making no money. He’s not a player the Giants would ask a team to “take off their hands.” If he was they would have non-tendered him.
Padres don’t exactly need another catcher who can’t hit tho.
vpsd, Yaz might be unspectacular, but he’s a solid fundamentally sound player. And the thing is, after trading away Soto and Grisham, SD needs OFers.
Yaz is a great fit for SD because he is also inexpensive, Perfect for a team needing to reduce salary to get below the CBT threshold, for an area of need.
You said that one can’t argue if one does not offer a counter.
I said that isn’t a rule.
You did that one should look up prospects because it’s so easy.
And I never said the guys sucked – I don’t know them. I said I didn’t want to trade HSK for them.
I think yih are confusing me with someone else. I didn’t comment on the people other than tk say that the proposals didn’t look good enough to me.
I said I didn’t want to take time to do that.
Therefore, by definition of the rod you have disagreed with me.
Yet you say I can’t disagree with your rule of commenting on trade proposals.
Omg lomgtime, please stop! I don’t make the rules, do whatever you want. But please stop replying to me. Please! Get some fresh air. Bye
Is he on their 40 man? If he is, then someone could take him off their hands, imo.
Padres will want MLB players with several years of team control. Not a reliever and several prospects that have never even played in pro ball.
Beck started 3 games. He is 27 and had a 3.92 ERA.
Crawford has never pitched one inning or pro ball. As he has hit .194 the last 2 seasons, he is not a 2-way prospect.
Ahuna has not played an inning of pro ball.
Get serious. Kim was a 5.8 WAR player last season. That was better than Soto. Not saying he is a better player long term, because he is 4 years older. Just that he had a better 2023 season.
So start with someone that makes sense. Someone that the Padres can plug directly into their rotation. A LHP. Kyle Harrison. Then add a couple of those others you mentioned.
You are not getting Harrison for one year of Kim, never happening. Enjoy Kim one more year then and you or someone else will sign him long term as a free agent.
Why would a team trade MLB players with several years of control for one year of HSK? (or any other player who is a rental) A team that trades for Kim is trying to win the WS in 2024 and as such would want to keep all their current contributors.
Not sure if you were responding to me. I completely agree with you. My point was only that Yaz would be a good fit for SD. I wasn’t suggesting a Kim for Yaz trade.
I think if we learned one thing from the Soto trade it’s that players aren’t necessarily going to net the return many fans think they should.
Soto was never going to the Yankees for anything less than Dominguez/Volpe, King +++, yet he did. Imho, Soto is going to garner at least as good a return as Kim. But, it’s just my opinion, and honestly, that’s pretty useless – lol.
On a different note, I think Zaidi could revamp the Giants staff by signing Monty/Snell and one other pitching acquisition (Ryu?). Frankly, I think Stroman would’ve pitched very well there too because of his sinker-ball prevalence.
If you go by ZiPS projections and 2024 salary – Kim has more surplus value than Soto. He’s worth a lot.
Vpsd – honest question: where are you seeing the surplus value differentiation?
I do see that Soto is expected to have twice the total WAR in 2024, and understanding that he make 4x as much I can’t figure the cost – benefit ratio, generally.
I honestly believe it’s in the specific team’s valuation of how critical that player is to its success.
I just take the fwar projections (multiply by 8.5M which is a a conservative $/war value) and subtract their 2024 salary.
Depends on the projection system you use. I used ZiPS which had Kim at 3.5 and Soto at 5.3
Oh, ok that makes sense. I thought it was an actual category field listed.
Doesn’t make the information less valuable though, I appreciate it.
Granted King and Thorpe are much bigger gets than any of these Giants players being suggested.
Imagine getting Soto for Oswaldo Cabrera, Jhonny Brito and another player or two of no consequence… that’s how these Kim packages look/feel.
Guys with one year of control never get the return that fans expect. A couple of the SD fanatics could never come to grips with the idea that 5.5 WAR for $31M is not a huge bargain.
It’s still a bargain. And we got a whole lot for him.
@JoeBrady It may not be a huge bargain but you also have a player with a very high floor and not likely to be a deficit.
And we got a whole lot for him.
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I thought you did fine. TBH, the one thing that I didn’t understand for either team was Grisham. The NYY don’t really need him, and the SDP now need two OFs.
Hi, Clipper. as usual, you are a voice of reason and courtesy. But I do think Soto and Cease are different.
With one year of Soto, the Padres chose to forgo getting a top prospect who was years out to get weaker players who would be immediate assets to competing in 2024. I think this is reasonable as the Padres have a good shot of being a wild card in 2024.
With two years of Cease, the White Sox – if they have some intelligence – will target higher quality prospects who are further out time-wise from contributing at the major league level. This also makes sense because the White Sox are a less competitive team right now than the Padres.
That does make a difference Manny, you’re right. Immediate impact players that are proven can make up the value that higher prospects would otherwise have. I also appreciate the kind words, man. I just try to show respect to everyone; we are all baseball diehards.
On a separate note, did you hear/read the story about Stroman requesting the sit-down with Cashman?
My opinion of him has changed drastically in the past 24 hours after hearing that report.
msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/yankees-marcus-stroman-re…
Thanks, Manny!
Two trade scenarios that I’ve seen floating around some message boards
Marlins get: Kim
Pads get: SP Edward Cabrera/OF Jesus Sanchez
and
Red Sox get: Kim
Pads get: OF Wilyer Abreu/IF Pablo Reyes/#13 1B/3B Blaze Jordan
Logical answer is yes they should… however, it would pose a really awkward situation right before the anticipated South Korea series.
I can’t wait for all of the “Kim for our backups and replacement level players” trade offers to show up.
Edward Cabrera is a young controllable pitcher
He’s still a question mark tho
DeLong and Lopez and some former Braves prospect who say no
He’s a one year rental. What are you expecting? You won’t get a teams’ top prospect for him.
Styme – depends on the team as not all teams top prospects are equal.
5+ WAR players return top 100 prospects at deadline every year. Add to HSK that he only has a 7 mil price tag and yes, some team will gladly give a top 100 (could be their top) at deadline if he is made available.
Teams don’t value defense the same way WAR does. This has shown to be the case repeatedly in free agency.
1984wasntamanual8 hours ago
Teams don’t value defense the same way WAR does.
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I agree 100%. I disagree with the model, but guys like Kim don’t get the return that guys like Soto get. I don’t know that Trea Turner is any better than Kim, but Kim will never get Turner’s valuations. Same as Swanson. Being good at everything doesn’t get paid like being great at 1-2 things.
Swanson just posted a 104 wrc+ while Kim had a 112 wrc+
You clearly don’t know the Red Sox system. Those are 3 potential all stats. Blaze has super star name. Just say it. Kim has 1 year of control
What’s the Red sox system? The keycode to the Green Monster that Aflac and the Hawkeye tried in that heist gone bad
These are purely speculative trade scenarios from a Padres’ blog as the article doesn’t even cite an unnamed source.
Neither offer is realistic. The Marlins would be creating two holes to plug one. Boston’s return would be insufficient for a player of Kim’s caliber and they already have an infielder surplus of their own.
“creating two holes to plug one…” Wrong. Marlins need a SS and they also sorta have a surplus of SP/OF. They wouldn’t be creating a hole whatsoever by trading SP/OF. Kim is a premium player at the SS position… again, it just comes back to if the Marlins are willing to spend money to extend Kim.
Obviously any team that would trade for Kim wouldn’t just blindly do so without wanting him in their long term plans. Marlins possibly may want a low level prospect attached, but they are absolutely a fit
There is no rotation surplus now that Alcantara is undergoing TJS. Rogers and Sixto will both be on strict innings after missing almost the entire 2023 season and Weathers and Meyer are both unproven. They also have depth concerns in the outfield with Myers and Garcia as the primary backups.
Trading for Kim is counterproductive for the Marlins.
He’s not really a premium player at SS. He’s a very good player and its only one year. Good thing is he’s affordable, but what can they reasonably expect to get for one year of someone whose main value driver is defense?
There were 5 ss that put up more fwar than him last year. Idk what your threshold for premium is, but he’s pretty damn good.
Exactly Ma4170, thank you for a well reasoned comment. The padre fans here sure are short fused. I was just having a discussion and they all act like Kim is the next coming of Christ and want us to cough up our top 4 prospects for him which is ludicrous. I like Kim, seems like a solid player that plays the game right but like you said, he’s just a good player and it is only one year of control, not 3 or 4 years of control
He was tied w Bogaerts for 7th at SS last year from what i can see, 8th overall last two years. Yes pretty damn good. Premium at a position? For me thats top 3, plus I’d prefer the main WAR driver to be offense over defense. Even his peripherals on offense last year speak to some good fortune.
Premium SS to me are seager lindor turner bichette and now witt. He’s a notch below them in my opinion. I like him a lot, just not sure how much he would realistically bring back.
I guess we will see Ma4170, it’s all academic until a trade happens and most likely it won’t. They will keep him this season and then either sign him long term or he will get an offer elsewhere. I am not a huge stats person, although I do know some, but I mostly just like the way he plays the game. He hustles and never phones it in, he tries to make the most out of every play
It’s all relative. A lot might mean different things to two different people. It’s one year – but he’s very cheap.
I don’t think he’d necessarily bring back as much as soto, but with the contract and projected production he should technically be worth more.
Agree, I really dont see why they would trade him
I think the idea is that they have too many Middle Infielders and could use SP or OF.
Cronenworth is playing out of position and is mostly likely a full war better at 2B.
If it’s for controllable assets that’s even better.
I think the Marlins might do that deal and it could make sense for the Padres too but Cabrera is a mess.
I don’t think the Red Sox should do that deal.
We need pitching, not a SS.
Why would the Padres trade for a RHP? They have that covered pretty well. Why would the Marlins trade for a player they can be 100% sure they can’t afford to extend? The entire Red Sox thing is crap.
More realistic trade for the Marlins is the one Bowden said they were considering. Luzardo or Garrett for prospects. Specifically MLB ready pitching and OF. The Marlins need to control costs and get long term control.
Padres need a LH starting pitcher, not RHP.. So no.
Way to agree with yourself, again.
Whatever Ryan
Hahahahaha.ReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeE yOu’Re RyAn ReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeE get new material.
The Padres are in a tough spot. It probably would make sense to trade Kim but to who and for what? Teams do need shortstop and the Padres certainly can spare one.
Marlins need one but they probably want one with more team control.
What contending team needs help at shortstop? The Dodgers perhaps but I imagine the Padres aren’t trading with them.
What other contending team needs shortstop help? Giants do but again probably not trading with the Giants.
Ss or 2B or 3b as Kim is capable of playing all 3 with quality defense.
Far as options
Toronto
Cubs
Marlins
Twins
Reds
Phillies
Braves
Could all upgrade at 2B 3B or SS
Kim’s value is as a shortstop that’s where he belongs.
I just don’t see the fit.
Kim put up 5.8 WAR at 2B last year and is a premium lead off hitter. He’s pretty valuable at 2B. He’s pretty valuable anywhere.
Ok well what contenders need a 2b?
I really can’t think of any.
The Marlins would be a really good fit but I just don’t think they want a 1 year rental with Alcantara out for the season. Maybe the Jays.
Dodgers and Giants are probably the best fits for him and that’s unfortunate.
“He’s pretty valuable ANYWHERE.” What part of “anywhere” did you not understand?
Dude calm down. You are mad your team didn’t plan for the 2024 season I get it. Just calm down.
So what part of “anywhere” did you not understand?
Thank you Joel 🙂
He’s more valuable as a SS. That’s all you need to know.
He’s pretty limited positionally. Can he play anywhere else than shortstop.
Anywhere- home and away? Grass and turf? Indoor and outdoor? Lacrosse and rugby? What are his splits?
Remember he just got a gold glove as a utility while playing 2B most of the year.
Kim put up a 5.8 WAR and only played a handful of games at SS. He is valuable no matter where he plays.
They planned pretty well. With the CURRENT players on the 40 man roster the Padres project to win 82.5 games.
The offseason isn’t over either.
Do you ever get anything right Joel?
He had a 5.8 WAR last season and played 139 games at positions other than SS. The difference in positional adjustment for playing SS for those 139 games would have made a .0.3 dWAR difference in his total for the season. Not WAR, dWAR.
That would be better, but the difference is miniscule. SS gets PAID more, but the difference in wins and losses is tiny.
Joel trying to say someone ELSE doesn’t understand baseball is hysterical.
Maybe take your own advice kid.
Hahahahahahaha websoulsurfer accusing someone else of not understanding baseball. Classic…
Not an accusation Ryan. It’s a fact. Neither do you. Why you are off my mute is interesting. New account?
Being ~500 with that payroll is planning well? Cope harder.
Watch out, he’ll get on one of his 5 other accounts to back himself up!
Now we’re all confused. Who’s firing on whom? Who’s mad at Joel or soul surfer or harambe or chewbacca? It’s like the origins of WWI, Franz Ferdinand is frenemies with whom again? The Russians? The Serbs? Interpol? Fitz and the Tantrums? Need a Texaco road map to sort out all the petty grievances
Usually when someone makes a remark like that they are really calling themselves out for whatever they are projecting on others. Good to know that you operate like that.
Whatever Ryan or 1984 or whatever else you are calling yourself today.
Ok Ryan.
Like you do constantly Ryan? At least you are admitting its all projection on your part.
Why do you even bother? You stopped being subtle about it years ago.
Twins have the opposite of a need at those positions
Aka the Weird Ass Minnesota Twins
What about Kim and Suarez to the Red Sox for Rafaela, Dalbec and Yoshida plus some money to cover Yoshida extra years?
Should the Red Sox really be trading for a rental?
Super utility to cover Story, Devers and new second base option Grissom. Or simply put him at second base. Sox want to trade Yoshida and get some of the money of their books
No, we don’t. And I like Kim a lot, but I wouldn’t trade for a SS upgrade.
Kim 5.8 war I s an upgrade compared to Story 0.8 war in 2023.
As a Padres fan, I’d do that deal @dgonzo. Personally, I’d probably ask for Houck too though, and throw in a couple of prospects in the 10-15 range to get him.
No.
How about Kim for Bello?
That’s nowhere near enough for HSK. IF he’s truly available, there’s gonna be a bidding war..
No, there won’t be. Guys like that don’t generate bidding wars.
Other option Kim to Angels for Moniak
The Padres are in a tough spot not just because of the payroll trim but also the competition- the best team in the West just signed the 2 best FAs and still are looking to add players and payroll. It’s not a stagnant market and you can only compete within your limits. Heck be clear it’s Owners who pay and fans who complain yet how much do they actually contribute to payment of say Bogaert ? 0,0001 % ? If a Kim trade brings them a pennant or even a WS appearance then it will be deemed a win , if they finish 4th the opposite- that’s the reality of the situation!
Why are Padres in a tough spot? Why would it make sense to trade Kim? What EXTRA SS or 2B do the Padres have?
If the White Sox pick up Kim they could have Kim de Jong up the middle. Then they’d truly be the Supreme leaders of the AL. The first incarnation of the dynasty: Kim de Jong Un.
What EXTRA SS or 2B do the Padres have?
Cronenworth, Bogaerts, Merrill, Tatis and Rosario?
Edit: You are probably going to repeat that “the Padres knew for sure that Tatis would never play SS again.” I’m gonna need to see a link for that one. And even then, I named 4 other MI’s.”
Would you rather trade Kim for prospects or lose him for nothing is why it makes sense to trade him.
lose him for nothing. 1 year of Kim at a mere $8M is a steal. They won’t get that much for him in a trade and by next year they have cap room and might even be able to extend him. But we’ll see.
@Brew’88 So we’re clear, you believe that losing a player for nothing is better than trading him for prospects?
The Padres have several older stars on multiyear contracts, they want to compete now rather than punt on 24 wasting the primes of those players they’ve committed to (Musgrove Bogey, Manny, Darvish, etc…). This context of keeping Kim one more year at $8M and receiving his 5.8 WAR, versus trading him for less immediate value, does make sense. Manny is a DH first month or two and Kim will be vital at 3B. In 2025 Merrill is rostered and is a cost effective replacement, and/or Pads are back under cap penalties and can spend a bit more. Still I doubt they extend Kim who will command $16-$20M long term.
That’s assuming he puts up 5.8 WAR again and that the Padres who won 82 games last year win at least 90 this year with Juan Soto, Blake Snell and Josh Hader.
Either drop the link to them saying “Tatis will never play SS again” or admit that you lied. You expect others to provide links to back up your claims. Lead by example.
If Kim is traded Cronenworth moves back to his natural position 2nd base. Bogaerts is probably staying at SS until he is no longer at least replacement level there on defense. Pretty simple equation.
Padres need a real 1st baseman not a 2nd baseman masquerading as one.
back up their* claims
He’d look so good on the Atlanta infield. Are they looking for position players, young pitching or mostly money?
OF and starting pitching.
Lefty bats and starting pitching. Their only true mlb outfielder right now is Tatis.
Braves got Noone left to trade. All 18 prospects got sent over for Bummer
If the Dipoto Medicine Show would get back on the road where they’re not just picking up cheap hitchhikers, Kim would be an excellent pickup. Send the Padres (a many time trade partner and co-owner of the spring training site in Peoria) Emerson Hancock, Josh Rojas, and Luis Urias for Kim and Adam Mazur. Then move Kim to 3B and sign Whit Merrifield. Done.
BTW, that’s 2 IF starters and a potential 5th starter for Kim and a good AA prospect.
The Padres already had Luis Urias and traded him. They also have too many IF, which is why they are shopping Kim. Rojas has a 92 LIFETIME OPS+ and Hancock has lost 3-4mph since his real prospect days. There are no starters in that package. No thx!
A trade won’t happen until Manny is healthy enough to play 3rd base in late March or April.
And that’s a good thing because the Padres can use Spring Training to determine their greatest needs. Can Vasquez, Brito, Avila, Waldron, or Thorpe crack the starting rotation? Can Marsee or Merrill start in the outfield? Azocar in CF? Sign Profar?
Once the dust settles and the Korean opener is done, trade Kim for the greatest need(s).
I think Eguy Rosario playing every day at 3b while Manny is on the mend would be perfectly fine. He’s ready for an extended look and his bat upside is probably somewhat comparable to what Ha-Seong Kim has hit the last two years. I think he could turn into an important part of this team for the next several years and hope he gets some serious action in ’24. 3000 PA’s in the minors with an OPS not too far south of .800. Gotta give those homegrowns a chance to be big leaguers for us and not the Mariners or Guardians, etc.
Matthew Batten had a .355 OBP in his 139 PA’s with the Padres last year and would be another internal stopgap to cover 3b.
Marsee and Merrill should be 2nd half guys at the earliest, same with Thorpe.
Pads can use Batten and Rosario or even give prospect Merrrill or Pauley at 3B while Manny is out. I would rather sign Jankowski than Profar at this point. Profar can only be usefull in left while Jankowski can help in center aswell. I do see the Korea series as an obstacle for an early trade.
#1 thing to keep in mind. To contend, the Padres need Kim. They already traded Soto to fill other positions and trading Kim would hurt the team’s chances of contending. Batten would not provide enough to make it worth playing him at 3B for even a month. Yes, the Padres are looking to contend. They can’t wait another year or just play the prospects because their stars are all over 30 other than Tatis. So Kim will not be traded.
Batten at DH would be a 18% improvement over all the different guys that played DH not named Machado last season. In 553 PA all the other DH for the Padres in 2023 hit .195 with an 83 OPS+. Machado hit .289 with a 124 OPS+ in his 142 PA.
If you have seen Pauley play defense at 3B, you know that is not an option. If you said try him as a platoon at DH, that would be an option.
Kim will play 3B if Machado is not ready to start the season at the position.
Merrill is not a 3B. If you said he could fill in at 2B while Kim plays 3B, that would be a possibility, but in all reality, Merrill needs more and regular at bats in AA. He has only had 187 AB above A ball. Pushing him would be stupid.
Merrill MAY be traded if it’s for a top line starter though. Preller has shown he is willing to trade prospects that are not at a position of need for MLB players that are.
Fwiw – reports are manny is ahead of schedule. He may not miss any time.
They have money. Just not the money that they spent over the last few years. I hope they realize they can use the farm system for replacements and not just trade bait. I know it’s still a gamble but with the financials not in their favor, it’s a route that has to be taken. By the way, they broke the season ticket holder record set last year. Goes to show the interest hasn’t died down…
Every team has “money” but that money is used on multiple players and whether you like it or not they cannot financially pay top 5 payroll when income sits them in the middle of the pack not in Yankee or Dodger territory. Season Ticket (since 50 years) is only part of the equation- TV deals far outweigh it as does sponsorship and personal (owner) investment.
Please share where you think you are getting revenue figures. That is not publicly available to my knowledge.
What we can definitively say is the padres have grown their revenue the last few years to become revenue sharing payors. They are definitely making enough to support ~ 200M payroll.
Not disputing what you’re saying French. They have to manage the money within their means. I included the interest in the team to show that most fans aren’t giving up on this team. And that is something…
The Padres TV deal was ~ 50m annually and they just sold more than 3m tickets at one of the highest average ticket costs in the league (statista cites $140). Ticket prices are going up 20% this season and season tickets are sold out.
I’ll let you do the math and see if you still think their TV deal is worth more than ticket sales.
Padres TV deal with DSG was going to pay them $52 million in 2023 and 2024.
MLB committed to paying all teams 80% of lost revenue if their RSN defaulted on payments or went out of business.
We know from filings in the DSG bankruptcy case that MLB paid the Padres 80% of the $8.67 million payment scheduled to be paid to them in May that DSG defaulted on and that after that they did not have to make another payment to the Padres. That means the Padres didn’t lose any more revenue.
The reason is that the Padres knew this was coming and had contracts already negotiated with the cable, satellite and streaming carriers they were on before, Cox, Spectrum, DIRECTV, and Fubo, and they added Spectrum Hawaii. They added 2 million TV households to their TV market. They were back on the air the very next day with MLB doing the game production. In other words, providing the equipment to produce the game.
The Padres also were then able to sell the single team MLB.tv packages that are not blacked out locally. They sold 250k in the first month and earned nearly $20 million worth of those Padres only MLB streaming packages.
After all was said and done, the Padres ended up being a revenue sharing payor and had a revenue that was in excess of $440 million.
NEXT season the Padres have already surpassed last season’s season ticket sales and after the holiday presale of single game tickets they had Nov 20 to Dec 4 there are only a few mid-week games that are not already fully sold out. Fan interest in SD is through the roof. Padres will have attendance over 3 million again.
They put 2000 twenty game season ticket plans on sale up in the nose bleed sections instead of opening them up to single game ticket sales and sold them out in 3 days. There are still 4,000 people on the waiting list.
I hope the Giants can make it happen but obviously I think it’s a long shot.
Cubs have pitching depth. Wesneski and Jordan wicks should get it done.
If cubs add pitching – it’ll be of higher quality than the likes of wesneski or wicks. And they still have need for infield help. Hard to find a fit for padres but 2 young pitchers w control make sense if they don’t have funds for free agency.
Also, I’m not a cubs fan. You shouldn’t profile people. Especially when u r not very good at it
The Padres might do better, but that is a decent package. Those two guys have a chance to stick in the rotation. Even if they were just a #3 and #6, that’s a lot of value.
Padres shouldn’t trade him. If they do, Red Sox should be in on this.
It could potentially allow Devers to DH or help us in so many ways.
Didn’t realize his contract is only one more year
Isn’t Ha-Seong a fan favorite in SD? Not that it matters much when economics now takes center stage for the Padres, but in an off-season that has seen the club take hit after hit, you’d think keeping an inexpensive popular player would be one bone Preller could throw to the now-suffering fanbase. Especially with a roster dotted with polarizing “stars” like Machado and Tatis.
Of course, from a baseball standpoint, probably makes sense to see what you can get for Ha-Seong before he pumpkins.
Kim will easily be worth a first round compensation pick to the Padres next year. If they can get nothing better than that in a trade, they will just keep him. No problems.
Trade Cronenworth and extend Kim. That’s what Preller is trying to do now. It’s a process. Be patient. All of this talk about SD not doing anything is malarkey. Preller will make some moves.
and very soon. The team will be pretty good this year.
Las Vegas has them at 82.5 wins with the current roster.
Take the over, but I didn’t think LV took U/O bets this early???
If a decent offer comes up for Cronenworth, that provides a return the Padres NEED, Preller will probably grab it. Dumping Cronenworth as a money dump, no return, or even SENDING money for a better return, is not in the Padres favor, and neither does it provide the return that Cronenworth is actually worth. Selling low is not smart.
Kim is a great ballplayer and valuable resource, but with Jackson Merrill ready for the show, and the value that Cronenworth can provide at 2B, Kim’s a resource, a chip that Preller should use if the return is right. Signing yet another $100M to $200M 8 or 10 year extension for a TWENTY-NINE (29) year old infielder in fall of 2024, doesn’t make any more sense than the (simultaneous) Machado’s, Bogaerts, and Cronenworth extensions/signings.
Again, as I’ve written below, the Pads have a “win-win” situation with Kim.
OldSalt:
Merrill played what, 60 games at AA. I wouldn’t call him ready for the show with only 200 total minor league games under his belt and only a partial season in the upper minors and is still only 20 years old.
They should be thinking of Merrill as a piece that could likely be ready in 2025 and be pleasently surprised if he goes off in ’24 and gets a call up before then.
Preller’s biggest shortcoming is probably his inability to give the prospects more time to cook.
Hey remember that Cronenworth was a runner up for gold glove at 2B before he was moved to 1B. There is great value there, give him a chance. Move him back to second or trade him to a team in need of 2B lefty hitter.
Cronenworth has had ONE bad season and in that season where his salary was just $4.225 million, he STILL provided surplus value.
In his previous two seasons he was a 4 WAR player, All Star level, both seasons.
His contract doesn’t START until next season and he will make only $7 million in 2024, so even if he repeats 2023 he will still provide surplus value. With his upside they would have to be pretty stupid to give up on him now.
Merrill has 187 AB in AA. In no way, shape, or form is he ready to make the jump. He will start 2024 in AA and maybe get a call up mid-season if there are major injuries.
In what way did signing a 5+ WAR per season player to a $25 million AAV deal NOT make sense?
Cronenworth has a 3 OAA and 2 DRS at 2B in 2022. Bogaerts had a 5 OAA and 5 DRS at SS that season, but people think he is a bad defensive player.
Cronenwerth is an underwater contract. I have no secial insight as to the Padres plans, but I am certain that the Padres will not move Cronenwerth unless they either throw in a lot of cash or attach a quality prospect. The right play for them is to gable that crony partly bounces back and to trade Kim for a starting pitcher or a 1B if they cannot extend Kim.
Projection systems disagree with your underwater take.
ZiPS would have him produce over 11fwar at 2B over the next 7 years. Thats positive surplus.
They should keep Cronenworth, move him to 2b and deal Kim.
Kim will likely cost 2x as much to extend (140m) and moving Cronenworth this offseason likely requires including 20-30m to accomplish that. So essentially Kim would cost around 100m more then just keeping Cronenworth and trading Kim (or letting him walk). Comparable bats and Jake is a damn good defender at 2b too, hence being a two time all-star and 4 win player at the position.
I kinda wonder if even if Kim isn’t a long term SD, if Merrill couldn’t be packaged for a big OF bat as well. Boegarts and Cronenworth up the middle for the next 3-4 years I don’t think is far fetched. Boegarts I think can handle SS for that long.
Especially since the Padres are about to sign the top International SS tomorrow (de Vries) who can take over the position from Bogaerts in four or five years.
Boegarts to first base when Merrill is ready.
They should keep Kim AND Cronenworth and extend Kim after 2024 when they have dipped under the CBT threshold for a year.
Why? Bogaerts is an above average defensive player at SS.
Bogaerts is actually a better defensive SS than Merrill, at this time in the early development of Merrill.
Kim is a FA after 2024. It only counts as an “extension” if it’s before the 2024 season ends. Cardinals never ‘extended” Matt Holliday, for instance.
Oh look Ken Rosenthal’s meat puppet proposing a trade to make the Padres worse…shocking.
Ha ha. Kenny sure does irritate Padre fans.
*fans*
He got burned on the Sherzer “trade” and has had a vendetta since.
Winning a division, pennant, and going on to win a World Series is complicated. Everything has to be running on all cylinders to do it. Talent and chemistry isn’t enough. The Dodgers prove that every year.
Oh the Seattle Mariners could use Kim at 2B…..
Seattle has the Padres number and the controllable pitching that the Padres want.
Put down the bong
Best player on the Padres
I use a bubbler, thx.
It is closer than people think, but no way Kim is better than Tatis.
Kim vs Tatis is kind of apples vs oranges. They aren’t the same player, with the same kind of strengths. Kim is arguably better than Tatis OR Bogaerts at SS. He’s “Manny” like consistent with his arm, he’s quick, moves well, makes plays that 95% of SS’s could not make. Tatis can do some of that, but he hasn’t demonstrated the defensive SS consistency and finish on defense that Kim has. (On the other hand, Tatis’ last performance at MLB/SS was as what, a 21 year old? Give him the years of experience that Kim already has at age 28, and Tatis would likely be as polished as Kim.).
There’s no comparison with their bats. Kim is a HIGHLY valuable SS with an advanced hit tool, and some power. Tatis has a H.O.F bat, capable of 40+ HR power, .300 AVG (maybe), and high OBP. Kim wil never be that guy.
So, again, apples vs oranges. Kim is a top SS. Tatis is an iconic, all around, baseball player and athlete.
To clarify, I am saying Tatis is unquestionably a more talented all-around player than Kim. I am not saying tatis is a better defensive player than Kim. Maybe it is apples to oranges, but Tatis is a top dozen player in MLB so long as he stays healthy and not suspended. Kim is a very good player but not in that tier.
Tatis won not just a gold glove in RF, but the Platinum Glove as the best defensive player in the NL. Saying Kim is a better defensive player isn’t true. Offensively, there’s no discussion, Tatis is one of the 5 best offensive players in the game. Kim is barely above average (for a MI) offensively.
If Tatis lives up to expectations he could be the best player in the game. His raw talent is the best I’ve seen since a young Trout.
5.8 WAR was in the top dozen in MLB.
Tatis is an OF. Padres said he would be even before the PED suspension and Bogaerts signing. Apples and oranges.
In terms of WAR, its not a question. Kim was better in 2022 and 2023.
Hard for Tatis to compete with Kim’s WAR in 2022 with a broken wrist and then while serving a suspension.
Keep Kim, Dump Preller!
Keep Preller, Dump Boyd.
We all need to step back a bit, and look at the Padres situation. It’s actually not a crisis. It’s a “win-win” situation.
1) If they keep Kim, they have a 3 or 4 WAR infielder, a 1B/backup SS/2B who “could” be a 3 or 4 WAR infielder (Cronenworth), after his 1-year-late “sophomore slump”), and some problems in the OF and rotation that the farm system will have to fix (either by moving prospects up, or moving prospect out, for big leaguers from another team). They also pick up a draft pick, which we all know, Preller has generally made good use of in the past. (In fact, that’s one of the prime motivations for bringing payroll down, i.e. NOT losing the draft picks and International money that the lux tax removes from the lux tax violators).
2) If they trade Kim, they have ROOM for an up and coming SS/2B named Merrill (who’s had one down year last year, but still profiles as from an above average infielder, to a Kim level infielder). They also have room for a quality backup infielder who’s name could be Batten, Marcano, Rosario, or others in the Padre minor league system.
I believe that signing Bogaerts was a Preller mistake, but not necessarily an insurmountable one. It’s not like the Hosmer/Myers missteps. Bogaerts will deliver the value his salary would predicate, for most if not all of his career (e.g. if he underperforms or is out of baseball in the out years of the contract, those dollars will be of lessor value than today’s dollars, in AAV and lux tax terms at least). I’m neutral on the Cronenworth extension. He could still produce plus value versus his salary, if he’s moved back to second. One down year with the bat, and injury, does not predict the rest of his career, and ignores his early career production. The Machado extension is still a question mark. “Buying” what Machado can bring, is more than just his WAR figures. Yeah, it’s a risk, but again, NO WAY is it in any way comparable to the Hosmer/Myer $$$ spent.
So, all that said, I’m very comfortable if the Padres trade Kim or keep him thru 2024. The obvious proviso is in the trade return. Kim is WORTH a stellar return, painful for the acquiring team. (Why should they pay less for Kim, than the Padres would have to pay for a similar player? How many SS out there are Kim’s equivalent with BAT and a glove. Remember, folks, Kim maybe a 4th year MLB player going into 2024, but he has a DECADE long track record of hitting success in the KBO. He’s NOT just another slick infielder.)
I’d hate to see the young man go, but yeah, Preller, if another team goes “all in” for Kim, take that offer.
You spent a whole paragraph and most of your post on Prellers many mistakes, yet you want to keep him to make more? Exactly when will you think Preller is the problem? Another decade of failure?
You’re doing zero-sum, static analysis, which is never accurate. Yeah, it’s emotional, it’s self-satisfying, and glad you got that release. However, your assessment of Preller’s value is far from realistic. If the Padres fired Preller, 15 other teams would be offering him work, either as GM or something fairly close, in 10 minutes.
Guaranteed.
Dynamically, analytically speaking, Preller has sharp “pro’s” and “con’s”. The benefit’s that he’s contributed exceeds the costs, which is why he’s still employeed as GM. Also, remember, Preller doesn’t call all the shots alone. It’s unpublished, but I’m CERTAIN ownership (past and present) has given Preller a set of parameters. He can do certain deals on his own. Other deals require approval from the Ownership group. He proposes deals, some of which are done and likely, many others that are rejected. He presents his case to ownership. If he’s presenting this information falsely, he’ll be gone-like-Elvis. If ownership feels that he’s running the organization well, hiring the right people, finding value, and generally giving them good advice, he’ll be Padres GM as long as he wants.
You seem to believe that every prospect traded, and every dollar spent, is Preller’s decision alone. Yeah, he’s at the “con”, he’s running the show, but not in a vacuum. His “decade lack of success” in terms of pennants and WS rings includes at least half of those years when he was working with very little money.
You hate Preller. Fine. We all have our opinions, but don’t put that on me. That’s your gig.
You’re the one who commented on keeping him and then you spent your time counting his mistakes. I agree he has positives like drafting and building a minor league system (and many clubs will hire him to do so), but he has sucked and failed for a decade at the top job. Again, I ask you, how many more rebuilds/re-tries are you willing to give him? He is still paying Hosmer THIS year. I would have moved on and tried a different top dog. Padres fans deserve better.
“then you spent your time counting his mistakes”.
You’ve never heard of the term, “context”. Or, “balance”. I was acknowleging counter arguments, and answering them in advance.
I like Preller. He makes bold moves that many GM don’t even think about. It’s not his problem that players didn’t perform. How many one run games did Padres win in 2022 compared to 2023. The line up in 2023 was unbelievable I don’t think it was managed well. How do you run the same lineup when you see it not produce? We need a true power bat at 1B and a solid defense CF that can hit above Mendoza line.
The AJ Preller built padres were in the NLCS in 2022 and missed the playoffs by a couple games in ‘23 because of well documented, unexplainable bad luck in 1-run and extra innings games. The Preller haters are delusional.
Boergerts deal alone gona B albatross round financial neck of team that can’t afford big swing n misses in FA market. Then compound that w/needlessly extending Darvish till he’s 45. What has preller won again ? Drunk off Pads kool-aid, next B talking bout where @petco they putn in preller statue ?
What has so and so won again is the weakest come back ever. You can say that about 90% of GMs. Otherwise I couldn’t figure out what you’re trying to say.
4.4 WAR. Just $25 million AAV. That is a GOOD signing. Not a bad one. Can always tell the people that have no clue when they try to say that was a bad deal.
The most underrated South Korean ever to play the game. Ask anyone.
Jimmy, that’s nothing. I played ball with the very best Inuit to ever hail from Greenland.
Trade him for some peanuts and cracker jacks.
The peanuts are non-negotiable because Cracker Jacks have about 1-2 peanuts per bag now sadly…I don’t know why. I would think the cost to add a few more would be mere peanuts!
As a Cubs fan, I’d love to see Kim at 3B for them. He is under control for 1-2 more years, which seems perfect for Matt Shaw’s time line (he will be playing 3B in the minors this year). The Cubs seem to really value defense (for the most part), and Kim is pretty solid with the glove.
Kim is a FA after 2024.
I looked on baseball reference and it says there’s an option for 2025, but maybe that’s not correct?
It’s mutual – never see mutual exercised. So you are correct it’s there but it’s not really from a practical sense.
Kim will of course decline the option and make $15-$20M as FA
Padres CAN QO Kim after 2024 at least.
I’m hopeful that the club will follow the model espoused by the Rays, Guardians, at one time -the A’s, the Brewers etc. and develop talent. However, no matter how much capital is ultimately gone, the club should still have assets to sign some upper tier free agents. Clearly, expediency played here. However, a good bit of talent remains committed in San Diego- albeit a bit older. Stay focused on winning games, not just occasionally competing with the Dodgers, and build on that.
In the off-season, make the difficult trades to make the club better. I applaud the Soto move and, if the next trade looks promising, make it.
“Trading Kim would create a big hole in San Diego’s infield…”
Jake Cronenworth, Xander Bogaerts, Jackson Merrill and Fernando Tatis Jr: “Are we a joke to you????”
And here comes De Vries. Then there’s Manny. You didn’t mention Manny? And Rosario gets no love. And what of Rosman Verdugo? Word on the street is he’s the next Nomar Garciaparra.
De Vries just signed 8 minutes ago
I’d love to have him as a pirates fan. Brings some definite middle infield defense with a decent offense. Shame it is a one year of control.
Sadly, Cronenworth’s success in ‘24 will dictate Kim staying in SD. Cronenworth does well, he’s gone in a heartbeat and Kim extended. Such a dumb extension to offer Cronenworth with all those years of arbitration control left.
If Cronenworth had repeated his 2021 and 2022 seasons in 2023, what do you think it would have cost the Padres to keep him?
Other teams are being praised for extending good young players prior to them reaching FA, but because it was the Padres it’s a dumb thing?
He would have made at least $7 million in 2024 in arbitration regardless of how he played in 2023 and that is how much the Padres will pay him on this extension.
His new deal STARTS in 2024. So the only way to even try to claim it was a bad extension is with the ability to use HINDSIGHT. The Padres signed him coming off 2 straight 4+ WAR seasons.
“If Cronenworth had repeated his 2021 and 2022 seasons in 2023, what do you think it would have cost the Padres to keep him?”
Not much considering he is under arb control through 2025.
“Other teams are being praised for extending good young players prior to them reaching FA, but because it was the Padres it’s a dumb thing?”
Other teams are being praised for extending good *young* players. Cronenworth was 29 the day that extension was signed, 30 when it starts, was already controlled through his age 31 season even with no extension and could have been controlled through his age 32 season with no extension if Preller had been smart and waited 6 extra days to call him up at the start of 2020.
I like Jake as much as the next guy so I wouldn’t go as far as to say it was a “bad” extension but late bloomers like him are exactly the type of players you go year-to-year in arb with.
Kim is all around stud player, showcased it all last season time n time again. Real team player n underappreciated asset. Plug em in n he plays. Wish he was Dodger SS. Hard2 root gainst em
While a Braves trade is never gonna happen it is a mistake to say they would need to move an IF. They have no good backup and Arcia could easily slot back into that role. It makes no sense tho. But I am a bit puzzled by their lack of a sense of needing a backup IF. They were very fortunate last year to hardly need one. I guess they figure they could always aquire one in season. I really don’t think they care much if Arcia hits at or below average considering the lineup.
If they were to get a proper offer for Kim, I don’t see them turning it down to merely appease fans for a 2 game stint in Korea. That just wouldn’t make sense.
Sad but true; in California/US estate taxes can be massive (even with the work of an A-level law firm).
So why not move Kim at his peak?
I never post. I don’t do social media. For this specific article only, I’m breaking my own rule.
Born and raised in East Country San Diego, diehard Padres fan-
Keep Kim. You have to keep him. He’s a stud at three premium infield positions. He can handle velo at the plate now. As unpredictable as Preller might be, now way he flips Kim. He has too much value.
After watching Kim since his debut, he finally looked comfortable and loose last season and it looks like he’s legitimately having fun on the field. He’s a fan favorite at the stadium. I could see Kim signing a team friendly long term contract with both sides being happy.
No way he’s traded. Period. Fake news.
HSK! HSK! HSK! #KIMSDP4EVR
Alphabravo619, Welcome friend. You have enough conviction that you sold me. I’m convinced. Although, if you don’t stick around and post more, then you are subject to the “One time poster fee.” Which can of course be remitted to: TrumboRedux on CashApp. I always forward it on to the MLBTR accounts receivables dept. It’s normally $120 but you seem like a solid individual, so I am authorized to accept $75. Mull it over and get back to me!
Pay no attention to Trumbo, at VirginPoster.com you can get 5 initial posts for free and it only costs you $17.95/year thereafter, and all deliveries are discreet.
HA SEONG KIM-HA SEONG KIM! He’s not going anywhere. He’s a gamer. This all a bunch of BS
Chanting his name in all caps in the comments just screams “casual fan.” You probably liked Wil Myers too lol.
You are going to be very disappointed a year from now.
The fans in San Diego love him and he’s on a team friendly contract. Trading him would be bad PR.
What’s more important: PR or maximizing the utility from the contract?
The Mariners need him
Call Preller.
I dont see it happening unless the return is crazy. This team isnt in dire need of much more than a couple of warm bodies for the 7/8/9 spots in the lineup with plenty of free agents available. Contenders interested in Kim aren’t going to give up mlb contributors – and we have enough prospects.
Need of pitching? No, we have 5 or 6 guys vying for the 4-6 spots in the rotation with a promising group of prospects that can be called up mid-season.
We need a couple role players to help cover CF, and a 1b / dh type. One of Pauley / Marsee / Merrill are going to be make the team in LF; and get a chance to break through. That leaves 3 spots on the 13 with names like Gallo, Jankowski, Cooper, and Profar out there to hit 8 and 9 in our lineup.
How about this? SD keeps Kim and signs him. To do so they send Tatis, Lesko and Cronenworth to the Tigers for P. Meadows, Manning, Lange, Flores, Carpenter and a decent Milb player TBD. Carp can play OF, DH or even be converted to 1B. Meadows is the young CF they need. Manning and Flores are starters for the back end with potential. Lange is wild but has closer material. Frees up cash for SD to sign whoever else they want while filling most of their holes. Look Ma the Padres pick up someone who doesn’t play shortstop. Tell me Preller isn’t chomping at the bit for a big deal.
I know, the Padres move the fences in 100 ft, and raise them 100 ft. With all their shortstops, deploy an infield of Manny, Kim, Bogaerts, Cronenworth, Tatis, Merrill, and the kid De Vries. Seven IFers. The view from the OF seats/grass area will suck but the backsides of the tall fence would have wrap-around video screens of the action, or, the 100 fence could be made of see-through plexiglass. This could work.
And the Tigers sign Michael Taylor for 2 years until Clark is ready. Good defence and hit 20 HRs last year. Cronenworth plays 3B, Keith at 2B and Tatis takes Carps OF spot. In a year or two Lesko, Madden and Jobe come up with Skubal for a wicked young rotation. Change around a few parts on the Tigers side of things if that doesn’t work. Jung could be trade bait too, or a different BP piece or starter.
I like it! Except we keep Tatis.
Trading Kim would be a PR nightmare. Yeah trade a fan fave who plays the game right to make up for your other dumb ass decisions. Smart.
If you do the exact opposite of what the casual fans want you to do every chance you get you will end up making the correct move more often than not.