The Giants made another major addition yesterday with the signing of Matt Chapman, and might not yet be done with their March shopping. Both Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle and Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area report that Blake Snell remains a target for the club, as the Giants continue to have a pressing need in the rotation.
Chapman’s deal contains two opt-out clauses, but in its full form is a three-year, $54MM guarantee. That puts San Francisco’s payroll at just over $183MM (as per RosterResource’s projections) and, more importantly, its luxury tax figure at roughly $230.5MM — only slightly below the $237MM Competitive Balance Tax threshold. Even if Snell were to also accept a shorter-term contract laden with opt-outs, his salary would obviously send the Giants sailing over that first tax tier and closer to the secondary tier of $257MM.
The Giants haven’t exceeded the CBT line since 2017, yet given the team’s high-profile bids for star free agents (i.e. Carlos Correa, Aaron Judge, Shohei Ohtani, Yoshinobu Yamamoto) in recent years, the tax threshold is hardly viewed as a barrier to spending. If Snell and his representatives at the Boras Corporation are open to a shorter-term deal deal akin to Chapman’s, the idea that San Francisco could sign both players for perhaps something close to the total number projected for just one of the duo at the start of the offseason would count as a valuable bargain, and seemingly well worth what might be a temporary tax hit. Michael Conforto’s contract is off the books after next season, Chapman could opt out, and Snell could opt out as well in this scenario.
Signing Snell would come at an additional cost to the Giants than just money, since both Snell and Chapman rejected qualifying offers. Signing Chapman cost San Francisco its second-highest pick (the 51st overall selection) in the 2024 draft as well as $500K in international signing pool money, and signing Snell would cost the Giants another $500K from their pool, plus their third-highest pick in the upcoming draft. While every draft pick is valued, giving up a second pick might again be seen as an acceptable loss for the Giants if it means landing Snell, either at a relative discount price or simply because the team is sorely in need of pitching help.
The rotation appeared to be a priority heading into the offseason, yet the Giants addressed the situation in a somewhat uncertain fashion by signing Jordan Hicks and acquiring Robbie Ray from the Mariners. Hicks has worked primarily as a reliever over his Major League career, and Ray will be out until around midseason as he continues to recover from Tommy John surgery. Since Alex Cobb will be sidelined until May at the earliest due to his own recovery from hip surgery, the Giants were seemingly prepared to roll with a rotation of ace Logan Webb, Hicks, and a group of rookies headlined by star prospect Kyle Harrison until Cobb and Ray were ready to return.
However, those plans took a hit with yesterday’s news that Tristan Beck will be undergoing surgery to correct an aneurysm in his upper right arm. Keaton Winn looks to be on track for Opening Day after a bout of nerve-related elbow discomfort, but these injuries have only highlighted the unsteady nature of San Francisco’s pitching plans. An argument can clearly be made that adding another starter would greatly help the situation, whether more of a stopgap veteran like Michael Lorenzen or Mike Clevinger, or a front-of-the-rotation type like Jordan Montgomery or Snell.
Even though Snell won his second career Cy Young Award in 2023, questions have persisted about Snell’s viability as a long-term investment. He has averaged just over 124 innings per season during his eight years in the big leagues, and he has pitched into the eighth inning in only five of his 191 career starts. Snell has also been prone to giving up a lot of hard contact at times, and his walk rates have been decidedly below average for his entire career.
This doesn’t seem to be the profile that would match Farhan Zaidi’s preferred model for pitching contracts, as the Giants president of baseball operations has long been hesitant about signing pitchers to particularly lengthy commitments. A shorter-term deal with opt-outs might solve that issue, and Snell is reportedly open to considering such offers, though it remains to be seen if there might still be enough late interest for the left-hander to score a more lucrative deal. The Yankees and Angels have been linked to Snell’s market, and other suitors could potentially emerge if another injury situation develops during Spring Training.
metalhead
Even if they sign Snell they are still 3 starting pitchers away from a rotation.
Balk
No they’re not…Snell, Webb, Harrison with Ray and Cobb due back and having Winn and or Black fill it in till then is a pretty solid core buddy
Seamaholic
It’s highly unlikely Ray and Cobb will be their normal selves when they come back this year. They’ll mainly be getting work in for 2025. Especially Ray (who wasn’t that good right before getting hurt, either).
splinkysf
This is the definition of specious reasoning…
Seamaholic
No it’s reality. You never plan on TJ pitchers coming right back to their normal selves right away. Especially when in their 30’s. And hip injuries are even more uncertain.
NYCityRiddler
Yea they are! Keep this head case as far away from the Bronx as possible. Ahahaha!
bigdaddyt
Never count out that former blue jay tight pants wearing bufff son of a gun
TheTrotsky
I wish I could follow NYCityRiddler. Always entertaining.
bag o ballz
Cobb didn’t have tj
its_happening
You named 3 healthy pitchers and just helped metalhead’s argument. Your Giants need another SP. Especially after signing Chapman in their quest to finish 3rd in the division.
DwayneMurphyFav
Webb, Hicks, Harrison, Winn, and a bullpen game doesn’t sound too bad until Cobb and Ray get back. The biggest questions which are plenty and causes some concerns are can Hicks make the move to the starting rotation and will youngster like Harrison and Winn perform? Maybe the Giants can trade a package of JD Davis and Luis Matos or Blake Sabol in a package for a 4th or 5th innings eating starting pitcher
dubtastic
was thinking the same thing..maybe JD/Bart/low prospect pitcher to Miami for Edwin Cabrera..Miami doesn’t really have a 3B and C depth
Balk
Dwayne…no on Matos for me.
Seamaholic
Dude Miami doesn’t take Whisenhunt and that group for Cabrera. They have a basically identical player at third already, who is much cheaper, and have been able to pick Bart up for nothing all off-season and haven’t done it. No one has. He’s just going to be cut.
Jean Matrac
No way are the Giants are including Matos in a deal for 4-5 SP.
Jean Matrac
its_happening, How does naming 3 starting pitchers help metalhead’s argument? Metalhead said with Snell they’d still be 3 SPs short. In other words he said the Giants have only one SP right now. That is flat out wrong.
its_happening
Jean – because most teams have 5 or 6 man rotations?
I answered what Balk said. 3 SP plus two coming back from injury. Opening Day, that’s 3 SP.
Therefore he helped his argument, whether he was off by one guy or not (he was being funny and clearly you didn’t want to laugh at what was a joke).
User 4223176798
Why trade Matos or JD when you can sign Lorenzen for a few million.
Jean Matrac
its_happening, Almost all teams have a 5 man rotation, 5 is the standard, 6 man rotations are rare.
Your response to Balk was not one that was defending someone else’s joke.
What metalhead said was the Giants have only one SP right now. How is naming 3 SPs supporting the statement that the Giants have only one? Three is not one.
seamaholic 2
JD literally has no plate appearances available. He has to be traded. No option (unless Chapman or Soler get hurt).
seamaholic 2
I mean they had a complete rotation in AAA last year so they “have” as many as you want to say they have. The question is whether they have 5 or 6 major league quality ones.
Jean Matrac
seamaholic 2, That’s true. And if the statement had been the Giants need another SP or even two more, that’s an opinion I could respect, even if I didn’t agree. But when someone says that right now they need 4 SPs, something not only completely inaccurate, but a wild exaggeration, I don’t understand you and others supporting it.
its_happening
Now you’re catching on Jean. Seamaholic said what you and every Giant fan should know by now. Yet many, MANY Giant fans do not want to believe it.
The exaggeration was the joke. Also seems many, MANY Giant fans don’t understand that too. Giants really need to relocate back to New York (this is a joke – sort of).
Pickle_Britches
Because Lorenzen is buns. Rather have Junis over him
williemaysfield
Jd has no place to play on the Giants. Matos isn’t going anywhere. Jd gets moved for a depth/bullpen arm.
SFG.1
I’m not expecting much from Ray or Cobb this season. I’d rather they go with Black even bring Wisenhunt and Birdsong up at some point to see how that goes.
PKVA
Well if Hicks sticks (see what I did there) he is the fourth starter with a Snell signing and the. You get Cobb first then Ray. So that is potentially six…if Hicks experiment does not work then he goes to the pen if the other two are healthy.
petefrompp
Well extremely frustrated Giants fan here – sorry to say it – but right now the SF Giants are going into the season with one (1) , thats right , one MLB starting pitcher.
We can hope Harrison can put it together , and hope he can handle the longest season on his entire career. We can hope Hicks can go from 70 innings pitched out of the bullpen to 130 innings as a starting pitcher. We can hope Cobb recovers from hip surgery sooner than later , we can hope Ray returns sometime this year from TJ- and hopefully can give you 50-70 effective innings –
You can hope minor league pitchers with very limited exposure to MLB can be starters in their first go around
No matter how you try and hope on this – the fact is they have one MLB starting pitcher at this time.
And you have a top 1/3 payroll. a bottom 1/3 farm system , and at best you have a .500 ball club.
You just gave up you second bet pick in the next draft , and a chunk of your international signing pool, to sign Chapman for one year- a guy who was worse than your own starting third baseman last year. This is nonsense move- Farhan is trying to say ” look I signed a big free agent” move. Doesn’t improve the MLB team, costs lots of dollars, and hurts an already poor farm system.
Not sure if Greg Johnson just doesn’t care , but Farhan should be scouting ballplayers in mexico – not running a MLB franchise-
Pickle_Britches
When was the last Giants 2nd round pick to contribute at the MLB level? When was the last position player to have a 4.2 WAR? Defense not only helps win games but helps the pitching staff. Other than the Dodgers the Giants have had the best off season signings. At least they are trying to have a better chance in 24.
The Giants do struggle with drafting players but since they have the dude from Houston I can only expect better picks moving forward
SFG.1
This is probably the only time I’ve told this story, but by chance, I happened to be sitting one seat down from Kyle Harrelson’s dad last season. It was the last game when he threw 5 no-hit innings. He overheard me talking about how I thought they should let him pitch longer and he leaned over and said he was his dad. I’ve seen him on TV so I know it was him. I ended up talking to him for about an inning. He said he’s only thrown over 100 pitches once and that was in high school. The Giants had limited him to 60 pitches in the minors.
So yeah it might take its toll to see him throw 80 to 100 pitches for a full season. Although I think he did throw 75 to 90 the few outings he had last year. If we can get that, I think they’ll be fine.
tedtheodorelogan
Everything you said about the pitching staff is spot on. I’ll add with that much inexperience in the rotation, the bullpen is going to be exhausted by June. Matt Chapman, however, is a much better baseball player than JD Davis, as evidence by his 30 career WAR to Davis’s 3 career WAR.
9er78
It’s Harrison Bud.
SupremeBacon
Even if 80% of their pitching prospects utterly fail, they’ll still be able to fill out a rotation until Cobb and Ray are back.
Seamaholic
Everyone’s got pitching prospects.
JackStrawb
The Mets don’t.
The Mets have MIRP prospects.
[spits glumly off the subway platform]
Gmen777
Maybe to START the season. Harrison, Hicks, Winn, Black and heck if they did a bullpen game once in a blue moon should keep them afloat until Ray and Cobb returns. When they do return with Snell you have the two best pitcher in the NL last year (second and third best in MLB behind Cole by most measures), a guy who won a Cy Young three years ago with Ray, the top LHP prospect in baseball in Harrison and Alex Cobb who was an All-Star last year. If they’re all healthy and even remotely near their norms that’s a top five rotation down the stretch
Simm
Most games snell starts are bullpen games.
dubtastic
@ Simm – which would still be ideal if Snell does his job leaving the mound w/the score being 3-1, 2-0, etc
mab51357
Sorry Gmen777. My no wrong comment wasn’t to you. I think your comment is entirely feasible. Sorry.
Pickle_Britches
I agree and if Winn can stay healthy I think he has major potential. Not sure about Beck or Black but from what I heard about Black he’s supposed to be pretty solid. Making the right signing for a SP is key. Montgomery is definitely worthy but he’s coming off his best year with only 10 wins one time in his career. Giants need starters with control with Hicks, Harrison and Ray but Snell would do great in San Francisco. 3-4 year deal would be ideal. With how he struggles with control he can’t wait much longer to sign, he needs to get some innings in ASAP.
JackStrawb
Hard to believe he’s not throwing simulated games, doing in-between sessions, pitching at Driveline and so on.
its_happening
Good GMen. Start the season below .500 and be out of it by the time the saviours come back. In MLB they play 162 games. To believe your mediocre Giants are juggernauts without a full starting rotation is an absolute prayer at-best. Hope for a surprise revelation from an unproven pitcher, because your squad is lacking.
mab51357
No. Wrong.
detroitdave84
Chapman signed because he was out of options & Toronto obviously wasn’t giving him the same money second time around. SF & SD are both going to suffer with their SP all year
JackStrawb
@detroitdave84 Depends on the back end. After Webb can they combine for an MLB average ERA? Can they keep the guys with ERAs above 5.00 off the mound?
Fwiw, SI is running this:
“Metric projects three SF Giants pitchers to rank among top-25 SP in MLB”
unpaidobserver
Yes but they are one more signing towards convincing fans that they tried, which is actually more important than winning.
9er78
They’ll fast Track Black if need be.
Francys01
Giants sign Snell already.
Deleted Userr
Could always just sign Bauer for the league minimum
stephaniebpetagno
Or they could not.
Deleted Userr
@stephaniebpetagno Where else are they going to get a pitcher as good for the league minimum without trading prospects for him?
orangenblackattack
Make it happen, please!
mad1
Add snell and they might win 75 games
filihok
mad
Sure, they might
They might win 75 without him
They might win 80 without him
They might win 85 with him
Gmen777
They haven’t won less than 75 games in a full season since 2018 and this team is much improved over last year
its_happening
Dodgers and Zona improved also.
Fine, 82 wins.
Gmen777
Dbacks won five more games than the Giants last year and the Giants have made a lot more improvements than the Dbacks.
its_happening
Alek Thomas, G Perdomo and Gabriel Moreno are a year older. Zone’s x-factor is Pfaadt, and we find out if he’s primed for MLB.
They also lost every game after they clinched. If they tried, do they win 86-87 games instead?
They also added an arm, SF added a bullpen arm hoping he can start. Bottom line, you need Snell.
detroitdave84
D backs are better & SF isn’t going anywhere anytime fast. It’s spring so dream away but by ASG you will be saying “sell everything”
mab51357
Just my honest opinion but I think the D-backs are over rated. Yes once they got in to the playoffs they got hot and made a nice run. They didn’t dominate the regular season at all. They hung in there though and made the most of their opportunity. They are plenty beatable this year and will be fighting for a wild card along with numerous other good teams. And I don’t think they have 2nd in the west wrapped up.
disadvantage
@its_happening
“They also lost every game after they clinched. If they tried…”
Huh? They lost those four games because they were outplayed. During that stretch, Kelly had a start where he gave up 1 run on 7, Gallen 2 in 6 1/3. They each lost those games, and their lineups had their typical guys.
The Dbacks were a good team last year, but it sounds like the Giants kept pace better than you had probably expected. The Dbacks also were what they were, not somehow better than their record suggested and were just holding back.
its_happening
They BOTH probably played beyond “pace”. Who picked the DBacks to be in the playoffs a year ago? Bet there were few. Yet San Fran is now a juggernaut?
What, the young players aren’t taking a step forward on the Diamondbacks? Right now they’re hoping Hoo Lee is legit, Bailey steps up, and Luciano is in a job competition with….Nick Ahmed? This according to the next San Fran article. Not good.
disadvantage
@its_happening
Stay on topic. You said that “They also lost every game after they clinched. If they tried…”, and that turned out to be a shortsighted comment. Own that.
If you’d like to have a conversation about the two teams, sure. But be good faith about it. Nobody is saying “Yet San Fran is now a juggernaut?”, so stop fighting a straw man.
Likewise, naming players incredulously is not analysis. Otherwise, I could just say “DBacks wanted to improve offense and added Joc Pedersen? Really?!” See how that is a weak argument? It’s no better than any of the points you made.
Anyway, there is a very good chance each of Lee, Bailey and Luciano have a very good year. There is also a chance they don’t. That also holds true about the younger players on the DBacks.
Both teams are coming off seasons they look to improve upon, and both teams did just that. There are arguments to be made about which teams look better on paper, but it will be more interesting to see the teams go out any get it.
Gator50
Here’s to either of them beating the Dodgers.
9er78
Giants have one of these best Bullpens in the Majors , they’ll lean on them early;this is an 85 -90 win team.
Pickle_Britches
Lol they won 79 last year. Add Snell and they can win 86-90
Americanentropy
Not sure how signing Chapman is a difference maker; they need pitching.
Datashark
They needed another bat so Soler does not get pitched around as the only true power hitter in the lineup.
Now with this signing the middle of the lineup looks a whole lot better:
Lee
—-
Chapman
Soler
Flores
—–
Gmen777
Estrada almost certainly going to bat second. Most iterations of the lineup I’ve seen has Wade/Flores platoon batting third. The X-factors in the lineup are gonna be Conforto and Luciano imo (I think Yaz is just gonna be completely average where he’ll hit a big HR once in a while).
El Niño
Oof. That middle of the lineup still looks awful.
Gmen777
Pitching wins championships and I still think that lineup is better than what the Giants won with in 2010. Dodgers and Braves had the four highest MVP votes players last season and lost their first playoff series
Liberalsteve
“pitching wins championships”
Proof?
El Niño
Where’s the pitching, then?
PKVA
2010 2012 2014…need more proof than that???
Datashark
in 2014 a single pitcher won that…then decided to join rodeo’s
dubtastic
The 2010 World Series Champions Giants is all the proof you need
tedtheodorelogan
Big difference between the 2010 rotation and the 2024 rotation. That shouldn’t need to be pointed out.
oldgfan
More like:
Lee
Estrada
Yaz
Soler
Chapman
Flores
Luciano
Bailey
Conforto
DanUgglasRing
With Wade’s crazy on base numbers I think it would make sense to bat him second as often as possible. You could slot soler in third but risk getting a little righty heavy in the middle after that with flores Estrada and chapman all candidates for 3/4/5 slots.
PKVA
Estrada way better contact guy. And then go lefty righty top of the order. I could them see:
3) Wade
4) Soler (Chapman probably has to protect Soler
5) Chapman
6) Conforto/Matos/Slater
7) Bailey
8) Yaz
9) Luciano
PKVA
Of course I did not add JD Davis because if they do sign Snell as this topic suggests then JD likely has to be moved for his contract. Then should have also noted Flores platoon with Wade and Slater/Matos for Yaz not just Conforto and both would be in there manning the corners against lefties with Lee in center..
JackStrawb
That’s one ugly baby.
Americanentropy
Chapman is not the bat they needed, though will play great defense. Giants as they now stand are nothing more than a 3rd place team at best.
Pickle_Britches
What other bat was available? Schmitt or JD Davis at 3rd ? Lol that’s terrible both of them are bench players. Chapman is a top 5 3b.
padrepapi
JD and Chapman had about as close to the same offensive #’s as two guys can have. One guy is a bench player and the other is something great? Everyone will point to Chapman’s much better D at 3b, which is true, but he’s still batting in the middle of the lineup and is on a 3 year run of not being that much better than the average big leaguer.
Take a look at Champman’s K’s & TB’s. over the past three years and compare to his earlier Oak days. Darn near 1/1 now which ain’t great, especially for someone expected to hit in the liddle of the lineup.
I expect his SF run will be about as memorable as Evan Longoria’s. But on the bright side it was smart only giving him 3 years.
It will be interesting if they get Snell and actually land a legit impact player. Soler and Chapman upside at this point are probably more good than great and fall right in line with Zaidi’s previous signings.
At least with the Lee signing there is a chance the deal is a homerun. I don’t think the other FA deals really have that upside based on the players and their careers to this point and respective ages.
filihok
pp
“JD and Chapman had about as close to the same offensive #’s as two guys can have. One guy is a bench player and the other is something great? Everyone will point to Chapman’s much better D at 3b, which is true,”
2021-2023
Chapman 110 wRC+ 3.8 WAR/600
Davis 113 wRC+, 2.5 WAR/600
FG DC projections
Chapman 108 wRC+, 3.2 WAR/600
Davis 105 wRC+, 1.4 WAR/600
Defense matters
9er78
Come on Zaidi get Er’ Done!
metalhead
This team is a disaster. They won’t even be .500
CALgoldenBears
You can say the same thing about 20+ other MLB teams
DanUgglasRing
Trash take. They had a playoff record 80% of the season last year and tanked at the end and yet still only narrowly missed the wildcard. Arizona won 84 games and went to the World Series. A huge part of the national league was only a few games above or below .500 and the giants are clearly improved since last season.
Pickle_Britches
Lol your right they’ll be like .530-550 team
DanUgglasRing
That might be all it takes to go to the WS anyway.
mab51357
Nice concise input. Lol
408inthe619
Regardless of the results that might or might not come from doing so in 2024, SF needs to sign Snell as an effort to reestablish some legitimacy as a free agent destination in the years to come.
Right or wrong, they’ve committed to Zaidi for the next 3 seasons, and rehabilitation of his image in the eyes of players and agents is desperately needed.
atuck_sfg
On top of gaining the trust of the fans back too.
tedtheodorelogan
Exactly. Same goes for the fan base. I turned down so many free tickets last year because I had no interest in driving 45 minutes to watch a boring, lifeless baseball team full of players I don’t care about.
stymeedone
Any discount signings will help with the fans, but not the agents or players. Every discount signing by a Boras client, is at least one future star signing with a different agency.
filihok
Stymee
“Every discount signing by a Boras client, is at least one future star signing with a different agency.”
Citation requested
amk1920
Overpaying or waiting for player’s market to collapse isn’t domination.
luvochka
As a Giants fan I do appreciate the way this is playing out in reference to the Dodgers. The Dodgers jumped in early and hard and paid top dollar for their signings. The Giants waited the market out and now are picking up some decent talent at reasonable rates. Would I have wanted Ohtani, no not at that price, would I have wanted Yamamoto as opposed to Snell, yes but at this point they won’t have to be married to Snell.
mab51357
Ohtani is as great as he’s touted to be , no doubt. But I really didn’t want the Giants to sign him. The contract is massive and more than he’s worth IMHO. He’ll do great things for the Dodgers for a handful of years and could very well finally get them to a few championships instead of just great regular seasons. I really like the guy too and he would have laid waste to McCovey Cove. Guess he still could when they play at the Giants.
Pickle_Britches
but ohtani would of brought in so much in revenue that would offset his salary. Since he signed with LA ticket sales and merch is up huge
mab51357
Very true. Good point.
Salzilla
They certainly have the need and room for him now. Even before the Beck injury it was sort of questionable.
Since Boras is defeated for now, his guys are coming off the board at some of best rates possible. Why not go for Snell?
The real Oscar Gamble
Snell to SF makes all the sense in the world for both sides. He had success in the NL west and the giants ha e been trying to spend money for years
Seamaholic
It puts them over the lux tax for the first time in six years, and close enough to the 2nd line so that mid season pickups will put them over. We’ll see. The market for a starting 3B is a handful of teams at best. The market for a Cy Young winning SP is any team that can afford it, which is a dozen or more.
DanUgglasRing
They’ll likely offload Davis and Conforto asap if snell gets signed. That’ll likely clear a little room to make things more realistic
JackStrawb
It’s just 20% for the first overage. That shouldn’t keep a serious team from any player, tbh.
tedtheodorelogan
How much are they paying down Conforto’s deal to move him?
Hotdog 2
Is filihok the weirdest person on here?
filihok
Hd
“Is filihok the weirdest person on here?”
I sure hope so
1) most people here are idiots. So, not being like them is good
2) if I wasn’t weird why would I need to exist?
stymeedone
1) thinking you are not one of the many.
2) thinking you have to be weird to exist.
filihok
stymee
You left something out
Also
“thinking you have to be weird to exist.”
Re-read
If you don’t see your error, refer to 1)
9er78
He’s definitely one of them.
JackStrawb
I resemble that remark!
Bright Side
If the Giants have been interested in Snell for a while, why hasn’t he signed? He’s not going to the Giants or the Angels. He wants to play for a winner. The Yankees aren’t likely to get him unless Boras uncharacteristically changes his conditions. That leaves one of these three teams that can fit a short term, high AAV deal under a specified tax threshold: Astros, Phillies, or Rangers.
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
Farhan getting those Black Friday deals….
PattheBat
Check any forecasting algo. The Giants are right there with the Phillies and Rangers
Datashark
Maybe Snell was looking for better defense on field and hitters in the lineup — with Soler and Chapman in the lineup might ease the pressure about their lack of producing runs.
stymeedone
Astros, Phillies, and Rangers are not making any offers. They spent their budgets. Giants and Yankees seem to be the only teams talking to his agent. If “playing for a winner” rather than “playing for the most money” was Snells priority, he wouldn’t have signed with the Boras agency.
filihok
stymee
“If “playing for a winner” rather than “playing for the most money” was Snells priority, he wouldn’t have signed with the Boras agency.”
You have no idea if that’s true or not
mab51357
Interesting take. Not saying you’re right or wrong.
Seamaholic
Oldest and least true cliche in the business: “He wants to play for a winner.” Most of them don’t care that much. That’s all projection from something in your head.
Jean Matrac
Using your logic, if the Astros, Phillies, or Rangers, are the likeliest landing spots, why hasn’t he signed with one of them? The Giants are more likely than the Rangers to spend the money. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Snell go to the Astros, or Phillies, but the Giants have just as good a shot at him as those other two.
VinScullysSon
Snell is still hoping to sign with the Sodgwrs somehow lol.
disadvantage
Oh yes, Snell is a lifelong Sodgwrs fan.
GSWfanklay
If they sign snell or not I like this offseason. I think at least one of JD Davis Yaz or conforto gets traded maybe for Willy Ademes?
Seamaholic
Good luck with that. Do SF fans think JD, Conforto, and Yaz have actual value? Adames is one of the best offensive SS in baseball.
User 4223176798
THe fact that JD, Conforto and Yaz keep coming up as trade bait means they have no value to the Giants, and certaiinly no value to other MLB teams. They are marginal players at best and will bring back marginal player in return. You will have to sweeten the pot by throwing in a top 10 prospect.
Jean Matrac
Davis and Conforto do have little trade value, but that’s not true about Yastrzemski. Part of the reason the values for Davis and Conforto are low is they’re in the final year of their deals. Yaz has two more years of control, and has been a plus defender who can play CF. He has plus numbers in all the defensive metrics across all three OF positions. He’s not a superstar, just a fundamentally sound ballplayer, that would help many teams .
mab51357
The only thing keeping Yaz from being a really good player is his injuries constantly which are partially due to him giving 120% effort on defense. He’s someone I hope they keep but he needs to stay healthy. Not sure he’ll be able to do that.
Jean Matrac
mab51357, I think Yastrzemski’s absences from injury might be overstated. Last season was the first time he missed significant time, 52 games out of a max 162.
His second most injured year was 2021 when he missed only 23 games out of 162. He played only 107 games in 2019, but the Giants were 50 games into the season when he was called up, so he didn’t play in only 7 games from his call up to the end of the season.
Overall he’s played in 554 games out of a potential maximum of 658 since his call up in 2019, about 84% of the potential max.
mab51357
Thanks for the numbers Jean. Maybe I’m thinking he missed more because at times he was not in the lineup because of Kapler and his platooning Yaz. Also could be some of his games played were just as a late inning pinch hitter or defensive replacement. My feeling is he needs fairly regular playing time to stay sharp at bat. Thank you sir
disadvantage
@seam
Adames is a good player, but (1) you’re overrating his offense and he is coming off a down offensive year, (2) he’s in the final year of his contract, and (3) he’s making $12.25mm on a team that is always eager to cut $12.25mm. So it’s not as though Adames is going to command a haul of prospects.
mustache101
1) he’s not overrated great defence and over 20 bombs in what you call a “down year” 2) correct in final year that’s going to get a qo so yes the prospect haul is going to be larger then you think 3) the brewers are not always eager to move money burnes was different he’s a Boris client who also had beef with the team over last years arb situation 4) they would have NO interest in an outfielder or a short contract they have an outfield log jam 5) the giants system sucks would take a lot out of that system as the dodgers could offer ALOT more 6) the brewers would want young controllable pitching that the gaints DO NOT have…. Not even close to a fit heck you couldn’t even use international money as a kicker…. Your homerism is pathetic heck why don’t you throw in all your overpaid players and ask for Williams and peretra also…..
disadvantage
@mustache
1. Did you miss the part where I said he is a good player? Yes, 20 home runs is great. .310 OBP, 95 OPS+ is not.
2. That’s a fair point. I still don’t think that will help his haul much, but I’ll acknowledge that a QO in addition to the player is valuable.
3. Did you think I was referring to the Burnes trade in isolation? The Brewers as a team generally keep spending low and are not afraid to cut costs. Kolten Wong is another example.
4-6 + the rest of your jargon – I’m not sure who you’re talking to because I never said any of that. If you’d like to discuss the Giants as a fit for the Brewers, I could do that, but it doesn’t sound like you’re willing to do so in good faith.
Pickle_Britches
Adames is like a Chapman type. Just because Giants don’t have many top 100 prospects don’t mean anything lol.
LordD99
Do it. Losing their third-highest pick and 500K in international bonus funds is not a penalty worth noting if they’re adding last year’s Cy Young winner. For Snell, he likely can opt out and re-enter the market without draft pick compensation attached and he’ll have a favorable home pitching park and the opportunity to show he’s more 2023 than the prior four seasons.
JackStrawb
I figure that last is what he’s afraid of.
laynestaley2002
He has a girlfriend and they are expecting a child together. So good luck to you with THAT.
Datashark
Dodgers do deferred and long term, while Giants do one year out clauses disguised as multi-year.
not saying either way works best, but Giants have gotten some good 1 year play outputs.
Here is hoping for another set of out clauses with Snell and Montgomery.
filihok
Dodgers signed Bauer to a 3 year deal with 2 opt outs
Datashark
those opt outs backfired
filihok
Ds
“those opt outs backfired”
You don’t know that
It’s sad how many people don’t know how negotiation works
Opt outs have value to the player, so, to get them the player has to give up something of value. That’s usually money.
The Dodgers saved money by giving the optouts.
mab51357
As a Dodger hater I didn’t like them signing Bauer because he was a really good pitcher and antagonizer. I hated when the Giants faced him. He would have been a really good signing had he not liked slamming headboards and such. He’ll get another chance though.
Datashark
They were PLAYER opt outs, which he obviously did not opt out on
filihok
DS
“They were PLAYER opt outs, which he obviously did not opt out on
Yes. And in return for those player options that the Dodgers gave Bauer, he had to give up something – that something was salary.
That’s how opt-outs benefit the team
Rally Goose
How did the opt-outs backfire? An opt-out only matters if the player actually uses it. If anything the opt-outs benefited the Dodgers because it can reasonably be assumed that Bauer would have wanted more money if not for the opt-outs. And knowing what we know now, Bauer should have just signed with whoever offered the most guaranteed $.
filihok
RG
Finally someone gets it
Datashark
Club options were what LAD needed, those player opt out they had to pay him out on — that was the backfire.
filihok
Ds
You don’t get it
If they had made them club options, they would have had to pay more per season.
Since they were player opt out, they paid less per season.
In hindsight, sure, the entire Bauer signing was a mistake.
Rally Goose
@filihok Ackchyually if they had made them club options he wouldn’t have signed period. No player is signing a long term contract that the team can opt out of after every season. Let alone a reigning Cy Young winner.
filihok
RG
Sure
Plus Bauer famously said he’d never sign a long-term contract
filihok
I forgot about it until now
That troll, Old York, said Chapman wouldn’t get an MLB contract this year
So…
Either an idiot or just has ro say dumb stuff to get attention
0/10 would mute again
mab51357
Lol. Agreed. Do you remember the dude/kid who was calling everyone clowns a week or two ago? Haven’t seen him since the Chapman signing. Can’t remember what his name was though.
geg42
The Giants may be the only team that can both afford to give Snell the contact he wants (in high AAV) and willing to do so.
Seamaholic
Oh I’d be surprised if that were true. Yanks have already made that offer. SP market is very different from 3B market. All 30 teams would love to have Snell if they could do the money/
Gmen777
I feel like this is the third thread I’ve posted this response but Snell is not going to go to the Yankees on a pillow contract there’s absolutely no way. If they pony up and give him a 5-6 year deal I’m sure he will, but why would he go to NY for a year to one of the most hitter friendly parks with the most ruthless media? His goal on a short term prove it deal will be to show consistency and put up great numbers and Oracle Park will give him that environment under a manager he’s familiar with.
stymeedone
Pot calling kettle black.
hoof hearted
still 3d place team
mab51357
Some 3rd place teams make the playoffs.
disadvantage
The place the team plays (Oracle) is in 3 dimensions like the other 29 teams’ parks, so calling them a “3d” place team seems a bit reductive, doesn’t it?
Yanks4life22
Major addition? He’s a great fielder who is putrid with the bat besides running into a few HR’s. This is just a free agent signing, nothing major here to see.
Jean Matrac
“…putrid with the bat…”
Exaggerate much? Last season he had a 110 wRC+. Since you seem to be ignorant of what’s putrid and what isn’t, that translates to being 10% better than league average. Or are you actually saying 60% or more of MLB hitters are putrid with the bat?
Pickle_Britches
Your just mad because he’s better than LeMahieu lol
Yanks4life22
You’re mad bc he’s in the same class as LeMahieu which is over the hill with the his best baseball behind him. Thanks for the comparison it’s actually a great parallel. DJ is a problem for the Yankees I’m not a Yankee homer and unrealistic about what is right smack in front of me.
disadvantage
“same class as LeMahieu”
Lol what? Can you substantiate this with stats, or are you just going off emotion? Over the past 3 seasons:
– Chapman has been the better hitter
– Chapman has been way more valuable (11.4 to DJ’s 6.4 WAR)
– Chapman has 2 GG’s (and before you make the “But… but… GG’s are a useless award!”, that argument only works on borderline defensive players, not elite defenders like Chappy)
Just because you don’t understand a player’s value doesn’t make your assessment true.
Pickle_Britches
Lol someone with common sense. How many seasons does LeMahieu have 13 so 6 more than Chapman and still behind on War lol
Yanks4life22
But…but…
DJ has 4 gold gloves lololol
Thank you again you guys save me a tonnnnnn of research lol
disadvantage
Your gotcha is that you are too lazy to do research? Proud of you, bud.
CaseyAbell
I’d spend the money on Montgomery as more consistent and durable, but the Giants definitely need starting pitching of some kind. Otherwise they’re gonna burn their bullpen out in a hurry. They’ll have to pay some luxury tax money for a starter unless they can unload a lot of contracts. But if they really want to contend in 2024 they’ve got to have a deeper rotation than what they’ve got now.
Seamaholic
Monty appears to be northeast or bust as his wife has to be in Boston for the next four years.
CaseyAbell
Call me cynical, but for enough money I think Montgomery would settle for the left coast. The question is whether the Giants want to spring for another big contract.
Jean Matrac
CaseyAbell, I agree, Montgomery will go to the team that offers the best deal regardless of geography. The Giants absolutely would be willing to spring for the money, as long as they’re comfortable with the length of the deal.
Pickle_Britches
Montgomery trying to cash in on his best year. 10 wins or higher just 1 time but expects 20 win money
tedtheodorelogan
Logan Webb was 11-13 last year and finished second in Cy Young voting. He could have easily won 20 games if the Giants offense wasn’t trash. Pitcher wins isn’t a stat that anyone cares about as it is entirely dependent on your team scoring runs for you.
tedtheodorelogan
I don’t understand this argument. Is the hospital she works at the only hospital in the country? Are they paying her 25 million dollars a year, like Montgomery will be making? If my wife was being offered a job making 75x what I make I’d move anywhere she wants. Seems like his wife calling the shots in this situation is counterintuitive, as she isn’t anywhere close to being the major breadwinner in the family, regardless of the fact she is a doctor.
biffpocoroba
The advantage Montgomery presents is that the Giants could get him without a QO penalty, and at a AAV cost somewhat cheaper than Snell would cost. The open question is whether he would take a pillow contract to play on the West Coast, given his market has softened. Given the two, I’d prefer Montgomery for that reason.
mab51357
Speaking of the Giants bullpen. They have a number of good pieces still but I think the loss of Brebbia hurts some. He chewed up some innings last year and was usually pretty good in a number of bullpen roles. Also seemed like a good teammate.
bag o ballz
They aren’t going to sail over the luxury tax, they have to make room for both on the roster so I assume some money gets moved in a trade
Jean Matrac
I don’t think they’d hesitate one bit to go over the tax threshold, if they can get the deal they want, short-term/high AAV. They were clearly willing to in their offers to Judge, Ohtani, and Yamamoto. It would only be the first tier, so if the AAV was $35M, the tax hit would be only $2.85M. And with the money coming off the books they could duck down below it next season.
biffpocoroba
Agreed. Greg Johnson already indicated they’d be willing to exceed CBT1 for a season, knowing that they’ll drop significantly back under it with the money coming off the books next offseason.
PKVA
There is no way they are giving Snell anywhere close to $35 AAV. He would be lucky to get $25 for three with the same opt outs as Chapman. If I were the Giants I would see if he would take a guaranteed $120 for five with no opt outs. And back end the deal a bit so he gets no more than $15-17 first year to stay under any penalties if they move JD’s contract.
Jean Matrac
I think you’re wrong. MLBTR predicted 7/$200M. Even knowing that no team is going to do that, it’s still an AAV of more than $28.5M Assuming MLBTR missed the AAV by more than $3.5M, that would bring it down to $25M.
But as the length of a deal comes down, AAV goes up. If Snell accepts a 3 year deal, which is what the Giants would prefer, he absolutely would not sign for only $75M in guaranteed money. He’s going to want at least a $30M AAV, and perhaps as much as $35M.
Adding opt-outs are an enticement to players to sign. Sometimes offering them is the difference between him signing with your team or signing somewhere else.
If you were the Giants I’d say don’t waste your time offering 5/$120. He isn’t signing for that even with opt-outs. If he was willing to take that he would have signed long before now.
bag o ballz
I am sure the offer is more like 3/90 with your outs, I don’t doubt that the Giants are willing to go over the tax but they have to move guys, probably Davis, definitely Bart, possibly others which could easily duck them under the line.
Doral Silverthorn
Dude is Dodger kryptonite.
Jerry Hairston Jr's Toupee
You could say that for lefties in general….
Doral Silverthorn
But I said it for Snell specifically, since there were a couple lefties they actually hit. Snell, in a vacuum, has mostly dominated the Dodgers.
WestVillageTiger
Davis in a package to the Cubs for pitching. I’m telling ya…
acoss13
That’s not such an outlandish idea. Could use someone else to play third. How was Davis at 3B last year? He’s just got to be serviceable in my opinion.
mab51357
Might not be a bad idea. The problem I have with Davis leaving is he put up pretty comparable numbers to Chapman on offense last year. Take Davis’ offense away and we got Chapman basically for defense. Lord knows we needed defensive upgrades but I wish they could find more at bats for Davis. It would also be nice to have him off the bench to pinch hit at times. Also insurance if Chapman or Flores gets hurt. Wouldn’t hurt to throw him in left field here and there. Can’t be anywhere near as bad defensively than Pederson, Sabol, Ruff etc.
San Farhancisco
Farhan gotta be re-thinking his model b/c with another poor performance he may have NO model.
San Farhancisco
BTW all things considered with Ohtani, Yamamoto, etc. I’m happy with how they hung in there and landed some decent players.
User 4223176798
With only Webb as a bonafide starter to begin the season, the Giants could be out of contention by the time Ray and Cobb return. And by the time Hicks and Harrison learn how to be MLB starters. Snell gives them a chance to stay in contention until the other 4 figure it out.
acoss13
Snell would keep them in the wild card hunt. They were in the thick of things all year until the end, and they’ve gotten better at position spots, so a quality arm like Snell, in a pitcher-friendly ballpark with a decent defense around him hopefully helps Giants stay competitive until Ray and Cobb come back.
mab51357
Harrison will have to learn quick and on the job. Obviously has great stuff but until he cuts down on walks it might be a bit of a rough road.
claude raymond
Added Cy young quality $24mil pitcher without adding salary. Great deal. Added top reliever to be a starter and if that attempt fails they still have a top reliever at 4/$44mil. Added a top centerfielder. Added one of the best power hitters. Added one of the best 3rd basemen. Added a catcher that rakes lefties. Got rid of 3 likely useless players (Desclifani Haniger Stripling) who may or MAY NOT be resurgent. Funny, posters have doubts about Ray and Hicks but there are no doubts about Disco, Haniger and Stripling? I like the chances of the former. Will still likely sign Snell. All of this and it’s still “fire farhan”. The dude basically admitted he made mistakes last year in getting Joc and Haniger and Manaea and Stripling. He swallowed his pride. Those were not good. But remember he’s responsible for Davis for Ruf. Pretty successful trade. That’s why I feel Davis stays and Conforto goes. He’s already eliminated the 4 players I mentioned. What would keep him from moving Conforto. Doubtful they could eliminate all $18 mil of his contract and would likely pay some of it but it could help lessen penalties. Matos appears to be ready for full time in left and Davis has started 22% of his career starts in leftfield. Probably just as good of an outfielder as Conforto. Davis and Chapman are buddies from Fullerton where Chapman played 3rd and Davis played leftfield. And right handed power plays much better in Oracle than lefthanded. Lineup vs lefties: Lee, Estrada, Soler, Davis or Matos, Flores, Matos or Davis, Chapman, Murphy, Luciano/Fitz/Ahmed. Not a bad lineup.
PKVA
Think they would be way too heavy righty power getting rid of Conforto. Conforto really only the likely consistent power bay from the left. He has to be kept over JD.
mab51357
Great take claude. Thank you
mab51357
Claude. I think you need to give a motivational speech in the Giants clubhouse. I think they can be a pretty decent team for a lot of the reasons you stated. I want the season to start now. I think you got me pumped up now. Thx
frugalfarhan
Make this happen if you want to have a chance to win. Still got holes but this would make me interested in this team again.
VinScullysSon
Bring back Barry Bonds. I bet he would be better than half of the batters on the Giants. I know it’s ridiculous how good the players are on my team (Dodgers) but looking at the Giants team and then reading what their fans write on here when they are trying to see the positive…just ugh. Gotta be rough to be a Giants fan right now. Good thing they have those three championships to reminisce about.
SF6sparky
10, 12, and 14 are a lot better to ‘reminisce’ about than a pretend 20 season. Would be embarrassing having an all star team and not being able to win a full season…..ugh
filihok
sparky
Dodgers have won more games than the Giants 10 of the last 11 seasons
This year looks likely to make it 11 9f 12.
The Dodgers have more wins than any other team over the last decade
Nothing embarrassing about that
claude raymond
so vinscullyssons narrative and filihoks narrative is Dodgers will win more than Giants. Impressive narrative. Vins narrative was we can reminisce about 10 12 and 14. Got it. And Vin can watch Gibsons gimpy trot and fist pump from 1988. 35 YEARS AGO. Practically 2 generations of Dodger fans spend their precious time watching the Gibson video. I bet you and Vin have very precious reminiscences about 2020. Please indulge us with some without Googling. tick tock
filihok
cr
“so vinscullyssons narrative and filihoks narrative is Dodgers will win more than Giants.”
So Claude doesn’t know what a narrative is, gotcha
mab51357
Which basically got the Dodgers 2-1/2 World Series wins less than the Giants in that time period. I’ll take less wins and more championships. It’s actually embarassing that the Dodgers have squandered all their playoff appearances. Lol
PKVA
Count the rings boy
VinScullysSon
I can reminisce about 2020 fine since I was there for game 6 in Texas and have great photos and the best memories. I was actually being respectful of the Giants World Series wins and just disrespectful of the state of the team now. I also can reminisce about the last 11 seasons going to a ton of games where we won. If you only enjoy your team in October I feel sorry for you.
filihok
PKVA
Muted (“ringz” and “boy”)
filihok
mab
“I’ll take less wins and more championships”
You can
I’d much rather watch a team that’s competitive year in and year out.
Judging by Giants fans’ comments around here, they would to
VinScullysSon
So what you’re saying is that winning seasons don’t count but only championships, unless that championship has a short season…which I thought doesn’t count. Interesting.
filihok
VSS
Right
The season doesn’t count.
And the playoffs also don’t count sometimes
Makes no sense
3 finger split
I used to go to San Francisco to catch Giants games but then the city went in the toilet so I don’t go to San Francisco anymore and if any player wants to live there…good luck with that and then add in the fact that California has some of the highest if not the highest taxes in the nation…teams in California have to over pay for quality players just to offset the taxes
claude raymond
I still go and the last recent trip was the cleanest I’ve ever seen the city. Before a game, we spent about 3 hours driving around. The only spot that had homeless was near city center, so blame that on the mayor. Traffic wasn’t congested. Streets were cleanest I’ve seen. Neighborhoods were hopping. And current players have said similar sentiments to mine. General consensus is they love the City. Posey had moved to Georgia and he recently moved back saying how he, his wife, and 4 young children missed it.
PKVA
Posey not living in the City…
tedtheodorelogan
You must have gone during CPAC. My brother has lived in the city for 20 years, and I live in the South Bay. I’ve been going to visit him, go to games, concerts, etc for the whole 20 years he has lived there, and for 20 years before that when I was a kid. The city is in obvious decline. Losing big retailers and mom and pop establishments literally every day. When I take the Caltrain up, the sidewalk that runs parallel to the tracks near the stadium is a tent city. It’s not even debatable at this point. The liberal policies of essentially decriminalizing public drug use/sales, allowing people to set up tents wherever they want, and having no consequences for shoplifting have ruined what used to be one of the best cities in the world. I’ve seen the decline with my own eyes, and anyone who can’t admit it is being disingenuous.
mab51357
3 finger split:Yada yada. Same tired narrative.
3 finger split
Lol
Statement of fact is not the same tired narrative but whatever gets you through the day
oldgfan
Did you not know he was already on a California team ?
Woj
Sources: they are working on a 5 year 150 million dollar contract with an opt-out after the 2026 season, contract will be announced around 10:03 pm Pacific
Juggy
Idiot
filihok
Juggy
Muted (insults)
SFG.1
LOL.
billysbballz
Do it! Do it San Francesco! It won’t matter because the dodgers and Braves and Phillies and even Padres will own the NL. Losing picks and international money will hurt when these Boras ballers opt out.
TJT88
San Francesco?!?!? Francisco***
billysbballz
Yanks should make a push for Monty. Give him 4 years with plenty of options outs. 20 mill per year.
PutPeteinthehall
When I used the calculator between my ears I count the Giants as being 47.5m below the luxury tax. Currently at 183 payroll with 230.5 max before the tax sets in. The writer claims a short term deal for Snell would put the Giants over 257. There is a mistake somewhere. If they are at 183 with Chapman it’s easy to fit Snell in too.
SFG.1
If you go on Spotrac it explains the numbers. The Giants have just under $29mil to work with. They are at $208mil and their tax number is $237 mil.
Players don’t get paid for Spring Training so they still have to add the rookies who are in camp. Depending on who is on the team I think.
TJT88
They get meal money every day. Back in 2011 as an employee I was getting a little under $110 a day cash
rct
I read the author’s explanation like five times and don’t understand it. Here:
“That puts San Francisco’s payroll at just over $183MM (as per RosterResource’s projections) and, more importantly, its luxury tax figure at roughly $230.5MM — only slightly below the $237MM Competitive Balance Tax threshold.”
If their payroll is at $183MM, I don’t understand why their “luxury tax figure” is almost $50MM higher at $230.5MM. B-Ref lists a posting fee of $18.82MM for Jung-Ho Lee and a bonus of $2.5MM for Sean Manaea. This would put them at $204.32MM. Not sure where the author is getting $230.5MM from as, unlike the payroll figure, it is not cited. Might be the adjustment on the Webb, Hicks, and Soler deals as their salaries rise further into the contract (which increases the AAV for luxury tax purposes but keeps the “payroll” down).
Bobby Mongan
Maybe the O’s decide to test the Snell waters and sign him for 2-3 years. Burnes and Snell at the top of that rotation and that lineup.
That would be money!!
TJT88
Would sure give the Jankees and the Ray’s a run for their money
brucenewton
3/90 with opt-outs. A lock for the Giants.
Pickle_Britches
I think he gets 5/150
Moneyballer
These Boras opt out clauses are just ridiculous!
YankeesBleacherCreature
Why? They’re not exclusive to Boras clients.
TJT88
Dudes gonna sign so late he’s only gonna make 16 starts. Mets need a quality pitcher badly.
dodgersvictoryagain
That’s be a lot of money to spend to battle Col and SD for third place. Could even be a basement squad. You know it too Giant fan !
Good luck losers
scottn59c
Yeah, yeah…we’ll see how the Dodgers do in the playoffs. Perhaps after committing lifetimes of money to Ohtani and Yamamoto, they’ll receive an unceremonious bounce from the lowliest Wildcard team.
Non Roster Invitee
Snell then Clevenger and it’s a guaranteed.500 season!
2183281
It sounds crazy, but the Giants should package Davis, Bart, and some pitching prospects or whatever it would take to get Luzardo. Familiarity with Melvin, young, left-handed and controllable He would be a nice compliment for Webb
pd14athletics
First things first. I’m an A’s fan. I do not have an ideal situation as a fan. That said I’m flabbergasted by the Giants fans feeling like their rotation is fine.
Webb is great.
Harrison I really like. But he’s averaged 105 IP last 3 years. He has tons of potential but a lot to learn and even if all goes well, he still needs to build up his IP. I think 150 IP is a reasonable guess.
Cobb supposed to miss until May.
Ray back at ASB? Coming back from TJ. This is a risky return.
Hicks building up to SP innings. I feel like a range 100-150 for him.
Beck shoulders surgery, Winn elbow issue…
You can say there is depth in minors but I think you need to be realistic about what innings guys named above can provide and how good the minor league reserves can be. It’s one things to say you can piece together a rotation, it’s another saying you can do that and be a contender.
Another note is I feel like it’s a bit of a slight to count Snell’s first season and also 2020 towards saying Snell averages 124 IP per season. In 2020, obviously MLB players only played about 1/3 of a season before playoffs, before Snell went on to pitch almost 30 IP in playoffs (and being infamously pulled in WS). In Snell’s first MLB season he also threw 60+ IP in minors.
Mercenary.Freddie.Freeman
I hope the Giants get Snell.
D-Nice
Horrible payroll management. SF doesn’t even have an All-Star on the team with the exception of Webb. Superstar, I should say. Sad they’re that high with them players.