The Giants have made another Spring Training strike. San Francisco has officially announced the signing of Blake Snell on a two-year, $62MM contract that allows him to opt out after the upcoming season. The Boras Corporation client will receive a $15MM salary in 2024 and has a $17MM signing bonus that will not be paid until January 2026. Snell will receive the bonus even if he opts out, so that decision essentially amounts to a $30MM player option for the ’25 season. If Snell does not opt out, half of his salary for the second season would be deferred until 2027.
San Francisco adds the defending NL Cy Young winner to the top of a staff that also includes last year’s runner-up, Logan Webb. A two-year deal certainly isn’t what Snell had in mind at the beginning of the winter. The 31-year-old hit free agency coming off an otherworldly finish to the 2023 campaign. Snell’s platform season actually started shakily, as he allowed 15 runs over his first 23 frames. From the start of May onward, he was the best pitcher in the majors. Snell allowed only 1.78 earned runs per nine through 27 starts and 157 innings after April.
Despite the tough first month, the southpaw finished the year with an MLB-best 2.25 ERA across 180 frames. He punched out 31.5% of opposing hitters, a mark surpassed by only Spencer Strider and Tyler Glasnow among pitchers with at least 100 innings. No other starter missed more bats on a per-swing basis. Opponents made contact on just 64.2% of their swings against Snell, narrowly better than Strider’s 64.3% figure for the lowest rate in the majors.
As a result, Snell cruised to the second Cy Young of his career. He received 28 of 30 first-place votes. He’d won the American League Cy Young as a member of the Rays five seasons earlier behind an AL-leading 1.89 ERA over 31 starts. He joined Max Scherzer, Clayton Kershaw, Justin Verlander and Jacob deGrom as active pitchers with multiple Cy Young wins.
The 2018 and ’23 seasons are, rather remarkably, the only seasons in which Snell has appeared on Cy Young ballots. That points to some amount of inconsistency over the course of his career, which is mostly attributable to scattershot control. Snell has walked nearly 11% of batters faced over his seven-plus big league seasons. Last season’s 13.3% walk percentage was the highest rate of his career. Snell led the majors with 99 free passes, the first pitcher to do so in a Cy Young-winning campaign in more than 60 years.
Snell has never been a bad pitcher, but the inconsistent strike-throwing has kept him from turning in ace production on an annual basis. He posted an ERA ranging from 3.24 to 4.29 in the four seasons between his award-winning campaigns. While Snell fanned over 30% of opposing hitters every year, working deep counts kept him from logging massive workloads. He has averaged a little less than 5 1/3 innings per start over the course of his career. He reached the 180-inning mark in each of his Cy Young campaigns but didn’t surpass 130 frames in any other season.
It seems the market didn’t value Snell as a clear-cut ace despite the strength of his platform year. The only other publicly reported offer which he received was a six-year, $150MM proposal from the Yankees back in January. When Snell didn’t accept, New York inked Marcus Stroman to a two-year deal. USA Today’s Bob Nightengale tweets that the Yankees took their offer off the table last month and declined to reengage over the weekend.
Given that Snell ultimately settled for a two-year guarantee at a marginally higher annual rate, there’s a strong argument that his camp erred in not accepting New York’s offer. At the very least, he’s taking more risk in going with a short-term pact for the chance to retest the market next winter. Still, it’s not all that surprising he didn’t jump on a $150MM guarantee.
That’s well below the seven-year, $172MM deal which Aaron Nola secured from the Phillies earlier this offseason. It’s also shy of the six-year, $162MM pact that Carlos Rodón landed from New York a year ago. Snell and Rodón are broadly similar pitchers — power lefties with questions about their ability to consistently log huge innings totals — but the former was coming off a better year than Rodón posted in 2022.
It’s possible Snell received similar or better offers from other teams that went unreported. In any case, he clearly didn’t find the kind of long-term pact that he envisioned. That seemed increasingly unlikely the longer he remained unsigned. The incumbent Padres were never a factor as they sliced payroll this winter. Teams like the Mets and Red Sox jumped out of the market fairly quickly. As the offseason dragged along, more teams downplayed the possibility of making a top-of-the-market splash. Beyond the Yankees, Snell reportedly drew interest from the Angels. The Astros were a late entrant last week before balking at an annual commitment above $30MM.
Snell joins fellow Boras Corporation clients Cody Bellinger and Matt Chapman in settling for guarantees well below what most people expected entering the offseason. They’ll all have the ability to retest free agency next winter. Bellinger and Chapman inked three-year deals with opt-outs after 2024 and ’25. Jordan Montgomery, the last unsigned member of the so-called “Boras four,” has reportedly continued to hold out in search of a long-term deal. With a week and a half until Opening Day, it remains to be seen if he’ll be able to find anything close to that.
It’s yet another huge free agent strike for the Giants, who have attacked the late stages of free agency with a vengeance. After a few offseasons of missing out on their top targets, San Francisco has successfully slow-played this year’s market. Since the beginning of Spring Training, they’ve added Jorge Soler, Chapman and Snell. Soler’s three-year, $42MM deal was around pre-offseason expectations. The latter two contracts were well below what the Giants could’ve envisioned in November.
Snell puts the finishing touch on a winter that also saw San Francisco shell out $113MM for KBO star Jung Hoo Lee and $44MM for reliever turned starter Jordan Hicks. The Giants also pulled off a major trade with the Mariners that sent Mitch Haniger and Anthony DeSclafani to Seattle for rehabbing starter Robbie Ray. The 2021 AL Cy Young winner won’t be a factor until around the All-Star Break, but he could eventually add another high-ceiling arm to the rotation.
It’s still a potentially top-heavy group, but there’s now a ton of upside. Snell and Webb should form an excellent 1-2 punch. Top prospect Kyle Harrison will occupy the #3 role. Giving Hicks a starting job despite his injury history and below-average control is a gamble, but his power arsenal at least makes that an intriguing flier. Veteran righty Alex Cobb could be back from last fall’s hip surgery by May. Prospects Keaton Winn and Mason Black are back-of-the-rotation depth options early in the year.
Snell’s late signing date could have him a bit behind schedule. He has been throwing and reportedly tossed four simulated innings in front of scouts last week. There’s not a ton of time to build rapport with catcher Patrick Bailey before Opening Day, but that shouldn’t be an issue too deep into the season. Snell is at least plenty familiar with manager Bob Melvin, his skipper for the last two years with the Padres.
San Francisco’s late-offseason aggressiveness has pushed them into luxury tax territory for the first time since 2017. While the delayed payment of the signing bonus reduces the team’s commitment in the short term, the $31MM average annual value is the relevant number for tax purposes. RosterResource calculates the club’s competitive balance tax number right around the $257MM line that marks the second tier of penalization. For teams that didn’t pay the tax the preceding season, the fees are fairly modest. In contrast to the Yankees (who would’ve been taxed at a 110% rate as a third-time payor that is in the top bracket), the Giants are only hit with a 20% fee on spending between $237MM and $257MM.
The Snell deal comes with a roughly $4MM tax bill. They’ll be taxed at a 32% clip for future spending up to the $277MM mark with escalating fees thereafter. While it’s likely this marks their last major investment of the winter, they’re surely hopeful of being in a position to add at the trade deadline.
Snell declined a qualifying offer from the Padres. The Giants already forfeited their second-round pick and $500K of international bonus pool space to add Chapman. They’ll lose their third-rounder (#87 overall) and another $500K from their international bonus pool for Snell. San Diego paid the CBT a year ago, so they’re limited to the lowest compensation for losing a qualified free agent: a selection after the fourth round. The Padres received the #135 pick for losing Josh Hader and will now get another selection in that range.
Paying the CBT and parting with draft capital are costs the Giants are happy to pay to get Chapman and Snell on short-term deals. San Francisco was comfortable with similar contract structures for Rodón and Michael Conforto in previous offseasons. Both players could walk next offseason for nothing — they’re ineligible to receive another qualifying offer in their careers — but that’s a risk worth taking to continue loading up in a division full of star talent with four legitimate threats to make the playoffs.
Jon Heyman of the New York Post first reported Snell and the Giants agreed to a two-year, $62MM deal with an opt-out. Susan Slusser of the San Francisco Chronicle reported the signing bonus and salary breakdown.
Image courtesy of USA Today Sports.
about time
Awesome. Great news.
Great news. Awesome.
News awesome. Great.
Great awesome. news
Great. Awesome news
Awesome, great news
Snell is a guy that runs bullpens into the ground as he only goes for 5 innings… He has had two great years and 5 garbage years. its the Giants a .500 club that pretends to think they are really good..waste of money plus the guy is odd to say the least hope he is pitching by Memorial Day
Pitching at a pitchers park making less than Wheeler who hasn’t won a cy young and is few years older. Giolitto is getting how much and he won’t pitch at all in 24 but Snell isn’t making much more. Good deal for the Giants
“5 garbage years”
Are you stupid or just too lazy to look at his actual stats for those 5 years?
Don’t be sour because your team didn’t do anything. Giants are at least trying to win. Had the 2nd best off-season additions behind the dodgers. He’ll miss a couple starts who cares. Cobb is expecting to return sooner and Ray not far behind. Webb, Harrison, Snell, Ray , Cobb and Winn seems like a legit staff. Better than the Dodgers
Id take a 2x cy young pitcher that has MLB experience vs a foreign pitcher making more than Gerrit Cole hoping he’ll do good in the MLB for 300+ mill vs 62 mill. Hopefully Yamamoto can win a CY young in his MLB career.
and Hicks, whether he starts or back at the pen
And this suppose to funny??
Too bad the Cardinals are cheap!!!!
Pretty sure the Cardinals added Sonny Gray, Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson to their rotation over the winter
Yes they added Gray, Lynn, and Gibson but imo they jumped the gun and way overpaid for Lynn and Gibson.
They could have gotten both of them for the price they paid one of them and had $$$$ to sign Montgomery also.
You’re right. Snell is too young
No. No.
You don’t get a 180 inning guy like Gibson, with a FIP around 4 over the last three seasons and a well above average 4.13 FIP in 2023, for less than the 1/13m the Cards signed him for. And they got a 12m option year on him. It was a very solid, smart signing for a team like the Cardinals who need innings and more innings.
That a news great awesome
Gibson gives up a lot of base runners
I’d say either Lorenzen or Clevinger would have been better & cheaper than Gibson & Lynn…
Did you not see Lance Lynn pitch last year? That’s a subtraction.
bad take “jack” lol dude is meat
Now explain Lynn.
If either of those guys were actually willing to accept less money, they would be on a roster somewhere.
And your point is ? A bunch of bums.
Add up gray,Lynn and Gibson and Snell on his worst day is superior to those bums combined. You are dismissed old man.
Including team meals.
I mean, technically, we are all made of meat.
Lmao
John Poe!!!!
Francy – Not great news for Snell, he was projected for $200M and instead got less than a third of that amount.
Boras is having one of the worst offseasons any agent has ever had.
Typical ignorant comment about Boras.
I seriously doubt he or Snell will lose any sleep in the near future.
When all these Boras guys opt out next year, I’m guessing they will all “opt into” a new, less bombastic and mercurial agent. A different, less egotistical agent could have likely landed $180M+ for Snell and possibly Monty.
@mlb
So you believe a less charismatic, less confident agent would’ve landed a higher contract than Scott Boras did for his free agents?
Explain your logic, please.
Blue – Here’s a couple quotes from the above article:
“there’s a strong argument that his camp erred in not accepting New York’s offer.”
“Snell joins fellow Boras Corporation clients Cody Bellinger and Matt Chapman in settling for guarantees well below what most people expected entering the offseason.”
So even though I wrote essentially the exact same thing, albeit in a more blunt way, only my statement is ignorant?
There are better ways to attract attention than for you to always play the contrarian.
And yes, Snell is probably losing sleep having lost at least $88M and now putting himself at risk of an injury or underperformance the next couple seasons.
@disadvantage..”So you believe a less charismatic”..If you want an explanation don’t change my words, because I said Mercurial and bombastic, not “confident”. And you are the only one besides Scott Boras himself who finds him “charismatic”, another word I never used. Please don’t play word games and pretend that simple points need explanation and at the same time putting words into my mouth.
@Disadvantage “less charismatic, less confident”…I think you’re being completely disingenuous because my point isn’t exactly rocket science. Guys who put their ego and narcissism ahead of common and business sense will often drive off a cliff, sometimes taking others with them. Ohtani’s agent got him $700,000,000 and we don’t even remember his name. What does that tell you?
@mlb
You can try to thesaurus yourself out of my question, but my point still stands: Can you explain how a less bombastic, less mercurial, and less egotistical agent would’ve landed a higher contract than Scott Boras did for his free agents?
Explain your logic, please.
@mlb
“Guys who put their ego and narcissism ahead of common and business sense will often drive off a cliff, sometimes taking others with them”
– That seems incredibly speculative. Can you prove that this is what Boras did?
“Ohtani’s agent got him $700,000,000 and we don’t even remember his name. What does that tell you?”
– Not much, and this is a pretty terrible counter-example to me challenging your anti-Boras rhetoric. Are you really asking me how a once-in-a-lifetime, MVP-level hitter, ace-level pitcher, who makes beaucoup bucks in endorsements (which allows him to take less money now and the rest in deferments later) signed a massive contract? Because you or I could’ve stepped in as his agent and gotten him paid, let alone Boras.
Anyway, I guess we’ll see. If the “Boras Four” each pick new agents for the 2023-24 offseason, I’ll shake your hand and say, “You’re right.”
Confident and charismatic? There are more than enough morons who are confident and charismatic. Boras is certainly not a moron but he badly bungled these deals for his clients. He misread the market like it was 2019 rather than 2024.
Dis – There’s a fine line between confidence and arrogance. Boras has gone way past it.
I believe Snell and Monty have certain teams they are interested in. With Snell it was west coast; Monty IDK, probably Boston and Texas.
Knowing that they should have gone with a more ‘traditional’ agent instead of one that promises the most $$. My opinion.
No he got his 30 million per knucklehead.
Remember what Rainer Wolfcastle says in The Simpsons, when asked,”How do you sleep at night?”
He answers,”On top of a pile of money, with many beautiful girls.”
Blake’s gonna do oookkk…
@Fever Pitch Guy: But there’s no certainty that the Yankees actually made an offer for him to consider, so there goes your theory.
That’s not me being contrarian so much as you not being fully informed.
Is that nicer than saying ignorant?
Nobody was going to pay him $200m he didn’t lose $88m
No worries fever pitch. Blue baron is a well known troll on the MLBTR boards! 🙂
No you are very ignorant. Your first comment is you don’t know if the Yankees made an offer and you take that as proof of what? You try to sound smart but say themost moronic crap I’ve ever heard.
Giants Just wasting money for fun lol they have a white and blue wall call dodgers and I will impossible for them to jump
Just remember to look in the mirror before typing or saying anything..cuz Yankees are the epitome of “wasting money for fun” and they have two walls to jump over which is the Rays and Orioles (both, who definitely does not spend money like the yanks)
“Just get into the tournament”
Diamondbacks
I’m just happy they actually addressed the rotation.
Making the pennant race interesting for 150 games is not wasting money, it’s putting butts in seats. I was very disappointed with this team at the start of the offseason, I am very pleased with them now. They are not the dodgers but this already was a better team than last year before free agency and should be very competitive.
They wasting money? Seems like they’re trying to improve their team
Awesome sauce. Great
People kept complaining that the system was broken. It was not. The players got paid got money. The players will be ready within one or two starts of the regular system. There were not systemic problems to fix. Boras obviously miscalculated but did not create any harm. Doing his job, sometimes does it great, sometimes swings and misses like here. Other than that a few of his clients likely passed up deals with more years and much lower AAV. That is a decision for players to decide when they select an agent, on the average Boras does better but with risk involved. Bigger fish to fry. Baseball is live and well. No changes needed. No scapegoats needed.
Snell just isn’t that great. The market has spoken.
He was as nasty a pitcher can be last year and had one of the greatest runs in the history of the game. BUT he rarely lasts over 6 innings. I wish the Pads could have made it work.
I watched most of his starts. You’re being generous
Well, as a Giants fan, I’m elated.
He’s really good. I would be happy too but he’s not going to get the massive pay day until he improves his profile
With your eyes closed? He was “that” great. One of the best in the last 40 years with RISP and men on base.
As you should be. Giants just got one of the top pitchers in baseball and get him for basically 1 year and $32 million.
Considering how well he did against RHB the last two seasons and that huge right center in Oracle that takes away hits from LHB, he should be even better than he was in Petco.
You don’t accidently win 2 cy youngs. Snell is not always on, but when he is, like last year, there may be no better pitcher in all of baseball.
@JCL10. Really? You honestly believe he’ll be able to get out of bases loaded jams all the time? He was always on the razor edge. The first third of the season those runners scored.
You sound bent like an allen wrench
@Websoul Snell is no doubt a a dominant power pitcher. It is no secret though he throws a ton of pitches per batter on average and doesn’t go deep in games. As well he has not been year in year as dominant as his 2 Cy Young seasons. He’s had alot of good to very good season speckled in. Obviously teams just found him to be too risky for a longterm deal with AAV he was looking for.
As for the RISP, yes he was great with RISP last year. Unfortunately though the amount of times he put RISP was also an issue.
“The market has spoken”…Giving a guy who leads the league in walks 7 years is downright crazy. That type of “success” is simply not repeatable and that could explain Snell’s year to year inconsistency.
No facts so you turn to trying to insult? Makes sense. It was his 2nd CY, so not singular. But then simple facts like that obviously go right over your head.
@bbl I know it was his second. This one was very lucky almost freakishly so
@pete’sview. I know right? I might just watch a few games this season. When Snell or Webb is on the mound, we might win a few.
Jimbo – The market spoke much bigger numbers earlier. There were huge negotiating mistakes made on Snell’s side.
Jimbo – How is it luck when the guy led the league in ERA and WAR and was 2nd in peripherals such as strikeouts and Fewest Hits per 9 IP?
It’s not like he got the Cy by winning 20 games with a 4 ERA.
He also was excellent in the 2nd half of 2022.
MLB – The real explanation for his inconsistency is injuries.
He has won the Cy every year that he was able to start at least 28 games. Who else can say that?
@ fpg A lot didn’t happen to drive those numbers that could have gone horribly wrong. You would have seen them during his outings. A weaker defense and or bullpen and the conversation changes drastically
Ask Robbie Ray.
Jimbo – Agreed on the defense and bullpen. I’m not able to look up those rankings right now or the bullpen usage, but the defense has less of an impact on a strikeout pitcher like Snell.
@FPG He walks a lot batters (everyone knows it). The SD bullpen was really good last year which helped Snell a lot. A weaker bullpen faced with inherited runners left by Snell turns his ERA into something less desirable. You’re right he is a strikeout pitcher and last season was able to get out jams like Houdini. Most GMs that had interest don’t believe this is sustainable. I’m not the only one saying this…it’s his biggest weakness hence no long term deal no big bag. He’s a 25 AAV pitcher 30 is absolute tops. He’s two different pitchers it’s maddening. I’m excited to see how it goes for 24′.
You should be . The lowly giants just got a top 5 arm and he is a southpaw to boot.
@MGM HAHAHA top 5, that’s a good one. Now they’ll be able to create some distance from the Rockies.
Thanks I love nasty southpaws with a bit of wildness, who can dominate. His stuff is cy young top 5. Ace. Number 1.
Bwa bwa bwa chuckle bwa bwa bwa …..smirk. He got 30 million. 2 time cy young. Go back to watching softball.
@MGM It’s not televised often. Do you record the games you play in with the girls? Maybe facebook live?
As long as he has a avg year it’ll be better than Giolittos best year lol
What’s Zack Wheeler set to make this year? No cy Young’s and is few years older
But soon to be disappointed
Getting to play where you wanted with $5 million more salary in 2024 and the chance to be a free agent next season is a negotiating mistake? Glad you don’t negotiate for me.
@MannyBeingMVP Here’s the thing—any player with Boras as his agent can say at ANY time, Scott, take the 7/162 deal the Yankees offered.
An agent is obligated by law to report all offers to his client. No exceptions. It was SNELL who chose to gamble, not Boras.
It was CHAPMAN who chose to gamble, not Boras.
A client can also hire as many evaluators as he likes to give him counsel on what he can expect and on what is unreasonable.
Boras, as grotesque as I find him, was following the instructions of his clients.
Jack – I hope everyone gets a chance to read this quote and realize how much power his clients allow him to have. When you hire Boras, you agree to let him drive.
google.com/amp/s/www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-…
The Red Sox designated hitter told reporters Friday that he’s not leaning towards opting out of the final two years of a five-year, $110 million deal.
“I guess that’s up to Scott Boras.”
!Fever tou are reading that out of context. Boras does bor have the right to decide if players opt out or not. Him and his employees will advise their clients what they think is best, but ultimately it is the player who decides.
masslive.com/redsox/2019/07/jd-opt.html
Manny. I can sense your sarcasm. I think. Some changes are needed, like a set low salary level like the NFL uses. Also, maybo less deferred money.
Manny – Even the best agents eventually decline with age, just like the best players.
Nobody is saying Boras is done as an agent, but his reputation and future earnings have certainly taken a huge hit this offseason.
No human being stays on top forever.
And every human being eventually goes under.
It would be shocking to find out that Boras recommended taking the NYY offer and Snell ignored the advice. But we all know that’s not what happened.
@Manny I don’t think a lot of people understand that not only is it just Boras doing his job, but it’s ultimately the players decision to choose to sign or not. Based on the reported offers and apparent reluctance by many, Snell likely should’ve taken the Yankees deal, but it was ultimately him who chose not to, even with the apparent lack of other major offers.
A lot of people commenting specifically about the job he did this year, miss the point that along with QO attachment, this pool of players had a lot of reasons for people to be reluctant. Out of the pool he had this year, specifically the 3 who signed the short term pacts, there was a lot of inconsistency in performance on snells part that likely worried teams. With Bellinger, it was his first good year in several. With Chapman, it could be said that there may have been fear that he’s begun his declining years.
But Boras job is still to try and get them the best possible contract. But when the deal is t there, they now go to shorter deals that still pay them plenty. None of these 3 are losing any sleep. Though I have a feeling only one of them is a lock to use the opt out, one will wind up sticking in the full deal, and the other is 50/50.
Biggest losers of free agency? Boras clients.
How do the Yankees and trashStros miss out on Snell for 2/62. Did Snell choose the Giants over Houston and NY to stay on the West Coast.
Yes. His GF just had a baby and lives in Seattle.
Vegas – Yanks pay $65M for one year of Snell? They aren’t that dumb.
Astros are up there CBT-wise too.
65 million *plus* draft picks and international signing money. Even for a year of peak Koufax or Carlton or Kershaw that’s a lot. For this lefty it’s crazy.
$65M is for 2 seasons if he ends up not opting out. It is also draft pick singular. And for the Giants who already lost their 2nd pick are only losing a 3rd by signing Snell. Considering many of 1st rd picks never have success in MLB, losing a 3rd is not quite as impactful as you re trying to portray here.
I also have to ask aside from missing some of the details I mentioned above when you decided not to read the article, have you seen what other SPs have been getting paid the past few seasons??
Cheap – Great post! Not even 2022 Cohen would pay that price.
It’s was over 60m for one year on the Yankees because they would be paying 110% tax.
Tigers – No, Yanks would have been assessed a 110% tax penalty on his $31M AAV for 2024.
Kudos to the Giants.
Pads missed out on an epic rotation.
This just isn’t good news for the Pads.
Padres ownership to blame, again.
Don’t want to add payroll, watch your former CY Young ace bounce to a team within the division.
Preller is responsible for acquiring Cease btw.
The Peter Seidler ownership gets the credit for any success this team has this year.
The Post Peter Seidler group refuses to spend.
Dylan Cease trade isn’t a big deal then?
It is but Snell = Cease.
Could have had both.
Ownership owes Preller for helping them save face with the Cease trade.
Ah ….. towinagain, ya know about that lux tax thingy, that 3rd and 4th year penalty increase. Or, about the MLB’s mandate to the Padres to reduce their debt service to league standards?
Nevermind, You probably do. You probably don’t care. You know how to spend other peoples money better than they do themselves.
Seems like you always think that somebody owes you something (or as you might put it into words, “Padres owners owe ‘the fans’ more”, meaning, yourself.)
Have they opened the books?
Sure, they don’t owe fans anything as fans don’t owe the organization their time and money.
But as fans, you support the team, the coaches and even the general manager.
You praise ownership when it’s deserved.
Ownership has underfunded the team this year.
Reduced payroll by 100 million dollars.
Done little to address the DH/LF issue
Got lucky by savvy drafting and a brilliant trade by Preller.
The Post Peter Seidler ownership group does not deserve credit for any success this year.
Tow – They are out of compliance with their debt ratio. They requested a $100M loan last year. It’s hard to criticize them for not spending when they are in financial trouble from overspending the prior few years.
The debt service rule is a contrived excuse MLB uses.
In theory, yes it’s there to avoid bankrupting a team but have we seen the books?
MLB allows franchises to utilize that to increase profit by justifying reducing payroll.
In case nobody has said it yet, this is awesomely great news.
Another Boras failure.
Good! They deserve each other. Ahahaha!
Your entire personality is commenting on MLB news pages about men that just made millions of dollars.
they also enjoy doing the weekend crossword puzzle, probably
No Sudoku?
Bob Melvin thing kind of means yes you are correct. Riddle me this bat man… what has 4 points and none of them yours?
Getting paid top rate for a year, then going back into free agency without the QO, with the option of keeping on for 2025 if injuries/poor performance crop up.
I’m sure he would have preferred something like a 7 year, $200m+ megadeal, but it’s as good a recovery as you can make.
Top rate is $43 million a year for starting pitching, not $31 million
And Montgomery wants 25 Mill a yr is why he hasn’t signed. Coming off his best season. He only has 1 season with 10 wins. Clevinger is a better bet
What a surprise that Blake Snell got nowhere near that ridiculous prediction.
Too many warts.
Yeah Wheeler just got over $40 mil AAV and he wasn’t even a free agent. This is not anywhere near what Snell wanted. But he’s also clearly not in Wheeler’s class so seems like he overestimated himself
What a terrible and ridiculous comment. Think before you comment son. You are dismissed temporarily.
Lol you a funny dude
Did the QO really affect him though? The Giants were willing to give up draft compensation for just a year of his services, if he stays healthy and opts out. He’s had two good seasons, where he’s pitched 180 innings. He’s had 6 seasons where he hasn’t pitched more than 130.
Good move for the Giants, I’m not saying Snell isn’t talented. If he has a good year, and opts out, fine. They came out on top. If his elbow blows up, they only have him for two at worst. I’m a Dodgers fan, but I was hoping the Giants would sign him. Baseball is just better when the Dodgers and Giants are at each others throats.
Go back to NY scumbags!
Yep! And honestly, this contract is what he is worth. He is a 5 inning pitcher that will never eclipse 200 innings even in his best years. Most years he is going to be an efficient 2-3 type starter that you need a well rested bullpen to back up. He is no Garret Cole, he’s never adapted to be more efficient as a starter, he is what he is and that isn’t worth locking into long term.
Bad choice. Garret Cole is hurt…. from throwing too many innings…. without sticky stuff
Cole has thrown over 200 innings the last two seasons and 180 the year before. The sticky substance joke is a few years too late and inaccurate.
Goat, we’ll never know but the inference was the sudden change in grip and throwing due to no longer using that stuff. It’s not possible to prove but it is a possible explanation .
@GOAT, obviously there are pitchers much more efficient than Snell. However he was tied for 24th with his 180 IP. So this notion that he taxed bullpen last season is absolutely exaggerated. He was in the top 20% of MLB for innings by a SP.
Snell is not exactly going for Ripkens record.
That’s because he started a lot of games. Snell is 5 and done guy most games. Which isn’t terrible but you want an ace to be able to go 6-7-8.
@Tigers – 180 last year was the best case scenario for Snell. Most seasons, he is closer to 120. That’s the point I’m trying to make. With Cole, you know he is top one percent in numbers and innings year after year. Snell/Boras were trying to get a Cole-type contract and he isn’t worth that.
99percent of starting pitching in mlb go 5 6 on a good day. So what is your exact point. Give me a southpaw with wild in him and 2 cy Youngs for 30 million please in my rotation. Warts and all.
@machine – 30 mil for one year, sure. I already said this contract is what he is worth. 20-30 mil a year for 6-plus years? That is what they were looking for, and he is not worth that type of commitment.
$32M guaranteed for (less than) a year is a failure? I’ll take an F, please!!!
I’ll take 200k for a year of work
Another Boras Bungle
We really don’t know if this was a Boras bungle or Snell misfire. I can say almost without a doubt that some team this offseason offered Snell a deal that was longer than 2 years in duration with a total value more than the $62M he just signed for. It was reported that the Yankees offered him a 4-5 year deal at one point not too long ago. Somewhere along the line, Snell had the idea of signing a long term contract of $200M+ in total value. We don’t know if that was Snell’s asking price as a player or if Boras put that figure in his head and told him to hold out for that amount. All I know is that even when a Boras client signs for much less, you rarely hear about that player firing Boras after signing a lower than expected contract, so it makes we wonder who set that $200M goal for Snell in the first place.
If he pitches great again this season, he’ll get near his 200m with this years 30m+ added to it.
Finally! Now it’s over!
Hey, Giants’ fans said the same thing when they were set to sign Correa!
Please explain? Giants don’t sign even half the players they did this off-season with the broken carlos Correa
They clearly think the Giants were the only ones concerned about Correa’s medicals…
It was a “failed physical” joke. They are saying that no one should be saying “finally it’s over” until Snell passes a physical. People thought the Giants had Correa and then they didn’t. Then the Mets had him, and then they didn’t…
No it wasn’t. It was a thankfully the snell who will sign is over. Love that you turned it into yall swooped in to sign the broken Correa though
I will explain…
It’s called a ‘joke’.
twins33 got it. But the real reward was those of you who were irritated..
Thank you, have a good night!
@tigers Here, hold my beer. I’m going to ask that girl to dance.
Carlos Correa was the last pick of my fantasy draft. Like 19th round… I drafted Wilmer Flores before him…. f Correa. And your analogy.
Who cares lol. Flores is a bench player 9.9 war at 32 years old. Correa is 29 with a 40 war. Better than Troy Tulowitzki and Brandon Crawford
Now the roster is set !
One year I guess of a luxury tax that we can live with…I would have preferred two or three years guarantee before an opt out kicking in.
You gotta feel bad for Rockies fans. Colorado was the 5th place team going into the off-season and the Dodgers, Giants and Dbacks got shiny new toys. Even the Padres replaced Soto, Snell, Wacha, Lugo and Hader with Merrill (in-house), Cease, King, Vasquez, Brito, Yuki and Go. Pour a cold one to salute the Rockies’ fans.
Your material was a month too early and dead wrong though.
good to hear you and the giants can afford that year
Very exciting development ! That changes things. Nice work, Giants.
And Farhan takes the Boras series 2-1. “Lost” game 1, belted him in game 2, and outlasted him in game 3.
Boras doesn’t get credit for Ohtani. Although I’m sure he would find a way to disagree if he was asked.
Lee. Giants paid way over expert opinions.
So Black to #5 and Winn to long relief, or visa-versa ?
I’m thinking it’s 50/50. If Winn didn’t have the hiccup I’d go 80/20 on Winn being in the rotation. Cobb possibly back mid to late April. Suddenly there is an embarrassment of riches !
Snell, Montgomery, Bellinger and Chapman.
Lee is definitely his best work so far.
Did you just go straight to the comments? Why not read the post?
Hope he’s lights out all year and proves the haters wrong !
Rinse wash repeat
He probably will have a great year, but for the Giants I’d rather see Montgomery on a long term deal. He’d thrive in that park with a good defense behind him for many years but Snell has more year to year variability baked in, then again I don’t sign off on spending the millions.
Today is further proof that the Giants just don’t do long term pitching contracts.
It’s been working out well for them.
maybe he wont walk 99 people this year
Maybe he will give up less than 15 hr and 115 hits for the year
LET’S GOOOOOOOOO
Wow, he probably should have taken what the Yankees where offering lol
It sounds like he really preferred west coast and you can’t blame him for wanting to choose where to play and live.
Sounds like the beauty and good living of the San Francisco Bay Area won over the hearts of Snell and Chapman.
Nobody confirmed whether that offer was real but the media ran with it.
He obviously wanted to stay on the west coast .
It doesn’t seem like it. Seems like he wanted to make the most money, overestimated his ability to do so, and ran out of suitors. I don’t think the West Coast played as much into this as people believe.
But, one thing that has been reported: no other team seemed willing to go to this amount for him, even short-term.
Decent cheap price. Well worth waiting for. Nice Move. Boras losing money and maybe some client faith this year?
Hi Clipper. If he had another short term offer, it was likely Anaheim, also West Coast. Unless your Yankees re-engaged.
Hey Manny. Yankees didn’t make an offer, to my understanding, so probably just Angels then. I know the Yanks sources said $30MM was too steep for their liking due to the tax and losing a draft pick. Houston obviously tried, but it seemed this was a bit steep for them as well.
I figured he would end up in SF, but not at this contract length/price. I think this is a good move for them, but time will tell….
Yankee Clipper
Believe you’re correct
Angels have low enough payroll I would have liked them to sign Snell or Monty to one year 35-40 million deal (no second season) and flipped for prospects at trade deadline
@Unclemike: Don’t worry about Boras. He’s losing neither money nor sleep.
It’s interesting. Giants respected insider Pavlovic was saying on last weeks podcast it was Angels soon. Referred to an “interesting negotiation” like he was on the inside. So yes, Giants v Angels at the death.
@Yank You have every right to this ungrounded opinion.
Giants tax situation played heavily into them closing the deal.
Mark Feinsand and Bob Nightengale both reported that the Yankees offered Snell $150 million for six years.
Yes, but Brian Cashman was interviewed about that. He stated no formal offer was made. According to Cashman, he spoke to Boras about what kind of deal they were looking for and was attempting to hone in on their asking price.
@SLL: And we all know that we must believe everything reporters say.
As a west coast guy I don’t personally want to live east of the Rockies. We don’t like humidity. Hurricanes or tornados. Earthquakes are just fine thank you. Also we prefer mountains not flat lands or marshes. And beaches with cold ocean water and great white sharks. I also love the high value of our real estate. All these things I love about the west coast
Except for the 40 guys on the roster.
Yankees aren’t dumb enough to give these high risk opt out contracts for one potentially good year, Snell is hoping that another good year will prove consistency and net him a long term contract.
Carlos Rondon says hi
Hi Carlos! Thanks for providing an informative learning experience for future contracts.
You’re right. They lock themselves into high dollar long term contracts on guys who can barely play a half season. Yanks and Anaheim choose their top tier from the same page.
@case You are correct. The Yanks are dumb, just not dumb enough!
@Case, so you re saying the Yankees are smart by insteading acquiring longterm contracts such as Stanton’s???
@More, Yankees offered 6 years $150M($25M AAV). Hes guaranteed $62M over 2 years($31M AAV). He also has an opt out that he can utilize if he has another banner season. With the way salaries have been growing years 5 and 6 at $25M AAV he’d likely have regretted. Look at Harper’s contract already.
So I wouldn’t not say he’s lost out by any means turning down that offer at this point, only time will tell. There is however a decent chance he ends up doing quite better than the $150 over the next 6 seasons. Also assuming that he’s not spending every dollar, the time value of accruing $ has to be factored in on all earnings over the $25M AAV, as he ll be earning on any extra $ presumed invested.
Snell didn’t want to play in the rotten apple.
Holy shiit
Where’s the Tylenol?!?!?!
Let’s go as a rangers fan this is good news.
For jays fans, it’s also good news
@champ
How exactly?
@JCL
Bochy manages the rangers, boch is a giants legend. He’s happy for the giants cause of bochy
@oj
are you slow? It’s pretty clear what I was talking about. It was also pretty clear I was joking
@Tigers-pickles are just cucumbers who became strippers. Remember that. It’s important
JCL They are falsely assuming that Yankees were “runner-up” – who knows?
So 1 year of Snell for 33 mil, Draft pick, and international bonus money. Wonder if Snell switches agents this year
It’s more like one year of Snell for $15 million with $17 million to paid after his deal is over. It’s a similar deal that they gave DeSclafani only in his case he re-signed with the Giants so who knows, maybe Snell will too
He also has a $30m option next year if things go wrong and, I believe, this takes sfg over the lux tax. Interesring deal.
They are over the 1st threshold of lux tax, and juuuuust under the 2nd per Roster Resource: fangraphs.com/roster-resource/payroll/giants
Conforto will be gone next year saving 13-15 mill.
Our long national nightmare is over.
Except that everything everywhere all at once in the NL West
Can someone explain to me why fans dislike Boras so much?
Because they think his clients work for him.
If you think Boras doesnt provide his opinion, “guidance” and plan for his clients your out your mind.
That’s not what they were saying. They were saying that people act like Boras is the boss, when in fact the player is. Boras will give advice, but he works for and will do what the player wants because that’s his job. Same as any other agent.
Boras haters think it’s Boras with 100% control and that the players are just puppets
Because of Chris Davis and an elderly Peter Angelos.
He has proven to be an outright liar in past negotiations. Look up Brian Sabean and the Giants with Manny Ramirez….
The scene in “Moneyball” where he informs Billy that he played him with the Red Sox over Johnny Damon explains alot too
Because he waits to long (that my answer) lol
Tall poppy syndrome. That, and for some reason fans think he’s taking money out of their pockets.
He takes the heat for what the players want. He uses the media to leverage teams to drive prices up. His use of colorful language and puns isn’t for everyone. He persuades his clients to leave their team after six years to get paid elsewhere. The reality is that fans care more about player loyalty more than the high-profile players themselves. Otherwise, they wouldn’t choose Boras to represent them. He’s doing exactly what he’s paid to do.
Where to begin. Snell is a perfect example. Boras throws out a ridiculous $200M 7 year contract “bar” for his top client. Yankees offer a generous contract but it’s not Boras’ number. He holds out like a childish 5 year old holding his breath. He holds up the entire pitching market in doing so. This includes his own client Montgomery. Lorenzen and Clevinger also held up.
Boras finally lets his breath out to the tune of 2 years $66M. The market answered with the real value of his client.
Blowhard Boras is more concerned with his brand than about his clients and their families.
2 years 66 mil is hardly true value for a pitcher who for a year and a half was elite-question marks or not. He now has to perform at a high level to opt out. If he has a middling season he will still get more but the 30m will look appealing so idk if he’d opt out. There are some intriguing pitchers next off-season.
And that’s why his agent should have read the tea leaves better. You only have 30 teams with very few having a large enough budget to afford a player like Snell. Competition for these large contracts is now expanding to Japan / Korea and you have a player like Yamamoto filling one of the “ace” contracts. Add in RSN bankruptcies and you get a very unique market. Boras was standing on his soap box claiming Snell is Randy Johnson, yet the signs were all there that the market is very dry. Plus you have owners with Boras failures like Rendon eating $38M a year and you can see why they are jaded towards him.
His clients don’t seem to think so. Big ones continue to go to him. If someone had wanted to sign Snell long-term and humongous dollars it would have happened.
You were in the room ?
It’s not that we dislike Boras, we dislike his tactics.
Just get the players signed.
While many fans do dislike his “tactics” I think most dislike him because he is the most known name and middle class/poor folks don’t like to see the publicized account of these players through free agency, seeming to be hunting more money when they are making millions/year. They aren’t doing anything wrong tho and I’d likely do the same (to some extent) tho there is the added felt pressure from players association, etc to get the highest deal. Some players don’t care as much about the other players deals as others. Some like to raise the bar or keep it where it is at least
Because fans want all free agent signings to occur in a perfect little window during the offseason, and they think he’ s a jerk for trying to negotiate the best deals possible for his clients. Because, you know, it’s weird for negotiating to occur in a business transaction.
The other possibility is that people blame him for driving up salaries, and thus its his fault that being a fan perpetually gets more expensive.
We don’t like a perfect little window, we’d like four month between November and February. Four months is not four weeks.
That’s really asking too much?
Because he tries to get the best deals for his players but fans of loser poverty teams hate that since it means the players sign with teams who actually will spend money.
Because for those of us that disliked the show Entourage, he reminds us of it.
Because I used be able.to.go to games several.times year.
Now.all.the millionaires let.me know
I AM POOR
@Poop
He is disliked because, like a lawyer, he comes off as insufferable, and yet, if your back was against the wall, you’d want him in your corner as much as anybody. Some specific examples of why fans dislike him are:
– He comes across as smug and arrogant
– He is perceived as greedy, as he’s historically gotten his clients top-dollar
– He is seen as disloyal, as he’ll forego hometown discounts and encourage his clients to test free agency rather than taking an extension
– He has no problem playing the long game in negotiations, which can be frustrating for fans who are kept waiting
– He seems dishonest since he has a track record of having teams bid against themselves by tricking bidders into thinking another team may sweep in and take their guy (see: Davis, Chris)
– Speaking of perceived dishonesty, he’s known to go directly to the owners since they are often the final voice in signing massive contracts. But in doing so, he can take advantage of less baseball-minded individuals, rather than speak to the front office guys in place that were going to contact said owners anyway
I’m not sure whether I’m hoping he sucks it up or not
Giants had to pull this trigger before the Dodgers did.
Honestly, the Dodgers would get more hate if they signed Snell, then if they signed Bauer at this point this offseason
Lol nah
Dodgers were never realistically going to land Snell.
Dodgers already have 6-8 viable starters as it is, and that’s before you consider guys like Shohei, Kershaw, Buehler, May and Gonsolin who will all come back at some time this year or the next.
He also walks way too many guys to be appealing to Dodgers FO.
If everything breaks just right like it did in 2021, their 2nd half rotation is gonna be killer when Cobb and Ray return. But a LOT of things have to break right.
The Dodgers don’t deal much with Boras, and I don’t think they have any need for Snell.
Great landing spot for a pitcher trying to pad his stats for the next contract.
Patrick Bailey had +16 runs saved framing as a
rookie. Combine that with Chapman at 3rd and Melvin having three years familiarity with Snell makes this perfect for both parties.
Mark
You’re informed enough to know that Snell’s numbers will benefit from playing in SF
Don’t you think teams are too?
The key word here is “trying.”
The Giants are back! No more messin’ around. Go get that 3rd Cy Young Mr. Snell.
He’ll get it three seasons from now.
As a Ray and then get traded to the Pads.
Great deal for the Giants. Big loss for Boras and Snell.
No offense to the Giants, who got a great deal, but why didnt the Astros or another team closer to winning pull the trigger on this guy at 2/62?
You clearly don’t know the Astros very well, they aren’t a team to go pay 31 mil a year when their about to take another luxury tax hit. They’re not the Yankees or the dodgers, I’m thankful they didn’t pay that money goddamn its a lot for a guy playing in his 30’s
And lose picks just for him to opt out if he’s good. Would be a terrible deal for any team in their situation.
Yeah much smarter to pay guys in their 40’s.
Luxury Tax. They would have paid 50-100% more.
@TGF: For some teams, try 110% more.
Had a lot to do with the tax situation.
@Buzzz: Boras and Snell aren’t complaining or losing sleep.
@BB Doesn’t mean it’s not a disappointing deal. And I wouldn’t say that Snell isn’t complaining after looking for a bigger deal.
He can’t and won’t complain if this was his best and/or only offer.
Our long national nightmare has come to an end…
Seriously, watch Montgomery. I still think he gets 3/4 years at @$20-22M per year. I know it’s crazy, but he’s a more stable commodity.
That would be a good deal, imo. I would give Monty $20/3-4 years.
Agreed. Monty’s waaaaaay more consistent, and does it over a full season. Blake’s consistent 5+ ERA going into July year after year killed the Pads…He pitched great last year (again…from July on..), but to Giants fans-Best of luck on that rollercoaster..
Well, on the positive side clipper, the speculation over Schnell to the Yankees can finally be at end. Now Cashman can go about his real business, finding a gem in the garbage bins, to round out the rotation till Cole returns
You may be right, but don’t forget he turned down – we can assume on the advice of BORE-ASS – 6/$150 from NYY
He’s a 500 pitcher
Boras really screwed the snell on this one. 31 year old pitchers coming off a cy young should be going for the largest guaranteed money. We know he could have gotten at least 150m from the Yankees and who knows how many other teams may have been in that ball park had he be reasonable to start with.
Now he gets 1-2 good years worth of money but will have to truly earn the rest. Pitchers can go down to injuries at any moment. The how could cost snell 10’s of millions.
He is gonna need to pitch great to come close to getting big money after this deal is up in 1 to 2 years.
The short term situation is wierd, his opt out is into his 35 yr old season I think which he prob wont get much in but who knows…
He is 31, can it out next year.
I cant see a realistic way that happens
What does realistic mean to you?
Nothing but redass Yankee fans in the comments.
Ridiculous comment and obviously Snell preferred not to play in the rotten apple on a 500 yankees team that is a pretender.
Wow. On the same day that they parted ways with their famous PA announcer, Renel Brooks-Moon, they then closed the deal with Snell.
But most of us have heard of Snell, not Renel whatshisface.
Yankees should have landed Snell – affordable deal.
Too bad!!
This is not the old Steinbrenner of years ago…
Yeah but the Stein of old didn’t have to pay all these luxury taxes. He would probably sing a different tune today
Like they need another big contract. Cole, Stanton, Rodon… yeah that’s worked out well. Who knows if Judge stays healthy either throughout his contract
Snell likely didn’t want to pitch for them. Only reason he would’ve turned down that contract while accepting this one.
Would’ve cost them $60+Mil for one season. Not sure how affordable that is.
Not affordable for the Yanks – 65 million plus draft picks plus international bonus money for one year if he’s good. If he’s horrible or gets a career-threatening injury so that he decides not to opt out, it’s 130 million plus draft picks plus international bonus money for two years of garbage (I say garbage because that’s the only situation in which this is a two year deal). I’m glad they passed on it.
Giants have had a successful offseason. I’m not in love with this deal but think it’s solid. I think the other deals the Giants have made have made them better. I think they get second place easily and may even compete with the Dodgers for the division.
Call me crazy but that’s what I think. Second place probably more reasonable, but wouldn’t rule out the division. I don’t see the Padres or Arizona being better than the Giants with the additions the Giants have made
Note: I’m not a huge fan of Snell but I do think this makes the Giants better this year
Giants over D-backs isn’t a guarantee but it would be likely after all the additions as you said
DBacks were incredibly lucky last year. They had a negative run differential and will be fighting just to get in this year. I don’t think they’re that great at all
Note- I forgot about Cease. Padres could potentially take second, but I still don’t think they’ll get passed the Giants
Padres have to many roster holes, no way their over the Dbacks or Giants, surprise me Padres…
Player for player the padres still look like the better team. Maybe if all the giants pitchers were healthy and showed they can still pitch I’d call it even but as of now I’d take the padres team over the giants. I do think the dback are a bit overrated because of their World Series run. It’s not like they were great during the season.
If rosters were determined by player for player, the world series the past cuple years would be slightly different my friend…
Of course buts it’s all you can go by for now.
Padres have too many holes, as AirY0rdan mentioned. It showed last year. They filled in a lot of those holes, but not with the best players. Last year they had too many players in certain positions and not enough in others. It was just a mess.
I see Bogaerts declining in the next year or two. It was a bloated contract that will show age. Giants haven’t made those same mistakes
We are taking about this year. Everyone player will decline at some point.
The Padres don’t have a lot of holes. You could argue left field and perhaps dh which is difficult to fix with not know how long manny will be there. Show me player for player and see how it lines up.
I think Bogaerts decline starts now. I don’t think he was as good as he played. Not every season was fantastic in Boston.
Player by player, you might be right, but as was said, you don’t win player by player. It didn’t work last year, it didn’t work for the Mets, it didn’t work for the Yankees.
Padres are strange in that their GM has changed the team drastically in the past three years. There’s no consistency, I question the chemistry, and it just seems like they get star players to fit spots rather than make a consistently good team.
We will see this year, but lately the best teams on paper have not won, and I think Padres have done a worse job this year putting a team together than they have in the last year.
Padres have stressed a lot about playing as a team this year. We shall see if it works.
I like the Giants don’t have glaring holes both in their pen and lineup. And you now have a manager who has one foot out the door heading to retirement. Padres finish comfortably ahead of the Gnats in the division.
@Simm Only 10 days til we find out.
Giants are NOT winning the division. They will likely battle it out with the Pads for 3rd place.
Their offense is atrocious, and no amount of pitching can save it.
If I recall, the Giants offense was atrocious in 2010 and we saw what happened then… as I said, I think second place is most reasonable and I still stand by that.
If I recall, they won over 100 games two years ago with a team of what seemed like scrap heaps. They seem to win like that when people don’t expect it and now when they actually have a rotation that’s half decent, I’d watch out.
That 2021 team had Posey, Crawford, Belt, Kris Bryant, etc.
This years giants team has none of those guys. It is a very real possibility that they have no player who finishes the year with above average offense.
To be clear though the Giants have tried to make the long contract mistake a few times but have been turned down by their targets.
Belt was always injured and Crawford really wasn’t a big offensive player. Posey was great and Bryant decent. Nothing spectacular but they still won games.
I don’t think their offense is spectacular but I don’t think it’s as bad as you say it is. Conforto isn’t bad, Soler is half decent, we don’t know about Jung Loo but we will see.
All I’m saying is they are very relevant. And 2010 they had a pretty bad offensive team and managed to win it all…
@BrianStrowman9 and it’s benefitted them that those contracts didn’t work out
Crawford hit 24 bombs that year and had a 141 OPS+
Belt had a 160 OPS+ that year and still played nearly 100 games.
2021 was the year it all came together for the giants, and another year like that is extremely unlikely, to say the least.
Those players that put up good numbers in 2021 were all reliable-ish veterans.
This iteration of the giants is full of young, unproven players as well as washed up guys like Ahmed or conforto.
@chaim
Yeah. Luck has been on their side. I was just making the point that they don’t have an org philosophy against those ridiculous monster deals. They just couldn’t get a target to ink one.
I’m betting they never touch Robbie Ray if they knew Monty & Snell would be sitting out at this price point right now though.
Ahmed just isn’t good. Conforto, who knows with him as he missed a whole year a couple back. I’m just saying it’s early enough, they have some decent pitching and I wouldn’t be surprised if they make a splash in the standings and apparently I’m not the only one who thinks that.
The 2010 team had little offense and you never know when career years will click either. Crawford was not a great hitter most years but seemed to excel in 2021… Belt isn’t even that good, yet you claimed he excelled in 2021…
I just wouldn’t write them off and I trust them to do well more than the Padres. Every year they’ve succeeded they defied expectations and you don’t win 108 games in 2021 just by those four guys that succeeded. It was very unprecedented and as 2010 showed, it starts with pitching.
Giants have Chapman (not the best hitter), LaMonte Wade Jr. and Thairo Estrada. Nothing special, but all were 2+ WAR players.
Belt was a 2.7 WAR player, which ties Estrada. He wasn’t that great and is arguably always injured.
It’s funny you use Crawford because he had that one spectacular year and it was a breakout season. You can’t predict those, obviously, but someone could step up in 2024 because he helped carry them that one season unprecedentedly. And breakout seasons do happen.
Posey is the biggest loss here, but who knows… he wasn’t even expected to do well after coming back from injury. 2021, like 2010, had some veteran guys but was still unprecedented.
But the additions they’ve made have put them a step forward in my book and I think it will pay off if they manufacture runs. I see the Padres fighting for a spot to the postseason but I just don’t trust them.
Giants now have two Cy Young Award winners and one-runner up.
Plus a ’23 AS and a ’24 ROY candidate.
Does anybody else find it odd that every team save the Rockies in the NL West is pedal to the metal, but the Red Sox won’t lift a finger to fart? Perfect protector. Hi guys, eat my balls.
I am so sorry about that last sentence. I was using voice to text and it caught me saying that to somebody. I did not mean to post that but I’m on my phone and I don’t know how to delete it.
Classy to apologize for the locker-room humor. The comment came out of left field but was damn funny!
Then eat my balls…lol
No need to apologize (but classy to do so) Best comment of 2024!
Ha ha ha. Classic. Nice work !
I’m assuming MafiaBass owns an Italian restaurant and was offering customers some meatballs.
Lol one of my all-time favorite comments on this site. Please never delete it.
The Giants are no longer the Red Sox of the NL West. Nice job Farhan!!! Youze a contenda!!
Pedal to the metal? Padres downgraded big time aside from getting Cease and I highly doubt Arizona comes close to their run from last year.
Pedal to the metal maybe a bit of an overstatement but certainly every team besides the Rockies have a legit shot at making the playoffs.
DBacks were highly overrated. They won with a negative run differential last year, which is highly unnatural. Padres just make too many moves and never have the right chemistry or fill the right holes.
Padres may get close to a playoff spot, but I don’t see them making it. I say it’s a two team race between Dodgers and Giants and the Giants may even have a chance to take it, though the Dodgers seem more likely.
I’d put more faith in the NL East as the better division (Braves, Phillies, Marlins).
Marlins are nowhere as good as the braves and Phillies. Their postseason run last year was largely a fluke, and they haven’t gotten any better this off-season. I wouldn’t be surprised if they are a 4th place or even 5th place team this year.
Look at their rotation. They have done bad each year but their rotation is scary good. That is what carried them to the postseason. Might click one year but I don’t think the Mets are better than them.
They haven’t gotten substations better but they haven’t gotten much worse. Mets got worse in my opinion.
Tim Anderson at 5 million was a fantastic addition for the Marlins.
Marlins and Giants are easily my two sleeper teams this year.
– Sandy Alcantara – out for the season with TJ
– Eury Perez – possible elbow injury
– AJ Puk has never had success starting in MLB before
– Trevor Rogers has an Era above 4 in his career and only pitched 18 innings last year.
– Edward Cabrera currently has a “right shoulder impingement”
Jesus Luzardo is great, but beyond him is a whole lot of injuries and question marks. The ceiling is there for this rotation, but it is just not good as of now.
Couple that with a flat out bad offense, and overall not a very good team.
There’s also no guarantee that Tim Anderson bounces back from a miserable 2023 season. They just lost Jorge soler and have done next to nothing to replace his production.
Sure, they could shock some people and end up in the playoffs, but on the other end of the spectrum, they could lose 100 games and sell all their players by the deadline. There’s no real desire to win or spend money to keep good players in Miami right now.
Well, I do agree the injuries have held them back substantially, but if they prove not to be injured, they’ll be good. I heard their farm is stacked, however, so I’m not inclined to think they will just fold. I still say third place. Since 2020, they have had shades of success mixed in with injuries.
Mets really bit the bullet trading both Scherzer and Verlander. They could have kept one. I don’t see their rotation significant outside of Senga.
Tim Anderson stinks.
$5MM isn’t much to piss away but he’s a terrible SS and the poor plate discipline has reared its head. He’s a bench player by the trade deadline.
Hey, you’re the one with the gorilla grip on Henry’s money
I think we have to wait to see how the season plays out. Sox took a 180 in a change of philosophy. Very different situation, but I think there may be more pluses than minuses when all is said and done.
No big contracts, no huge problems. They’ve screwed the Sox constantly. Look at Giolito. Thank goodness it was two years and not five. Rusney Castillo, Pablo Sandoval, the list goes on and on…
I hope nobody took that the wrong way!!!
Snell should have gotten a long term Deal but boras also has a history of peddling injured clients.
Webb-Snell is a heckuva 1-2 punch.
Have to make it to October but if they do, that’s not going to be fun to face.
Webb, Snell and Ray towards the end of the season. Dangerous rotation if the Giants can sneak into the playoffs.
Ray? You gotta be kidding. This is not 2021 or even 2017.
Ray really hasn’t been all that great before he was hurt. Cobb and Harrison may actually be better.
Ray is basically Blake Snell but you’re excited about one and the other “hasn’t been all that great”
Ray is coming off of not being very good and surgery. Snell will almost certainly regress.
Did you look at anything other than his ERA? Like the fact he only pitched 3.1 innings…. While hurt?
Or in your mind is an ERA under 4 while strike out over 10 per 9 “not being very good”?
How about his era+ in 2020 of 68, 2022 of 100. We don’t have to count last year. 2018 103, 2019 107. So that’s one great year and the rest are mid out of the last 6 seasons. Now he is coming off a major surgery. Do you look at anything besides strikeouts?
Anyone with half a brain tosses out 2020. You know since it was less than 1/3 of a season, players didn’t have a real spring training, there were no fans and there was more important stuff going on.
And 2019… you mean when the ball was juiced up more than Jose Canseco?
Guess we can expect the entire Dodger rotation aside from Yamamoto to be bad too since… you know… major surgery….
Calling it rn, one of em is getting injured
Predicting pitcher injuries. Way to go out on a limb.
As a Astros fan, the only words that come to mind are: Thank God we didn’t pay that…
2 years $62 mill. could turn out to be quite cheap. Your window might be closing so go for it while most of the band is still together!
Better to pay too much for a year or two than market rate for like 7 years. Teams have gotten burned too often signing players long term that weren’t certified sure things. Snell is pretty good, but who knows what he’ll be in 4 years.
Maybe the Astros will spring for Montgomery. But likely they will just go with Bielak & Blonco.
And of course there’s an opt-out.
Similar contract they hit the jackpot on with Rodon. It will be interesting following Vegas odds on whether Snell opts out after ‘24. I’m gonna predict he’ll be in SF for both years of this deal.
NL West could be toughest division Toss up with AL East
Even COL improved, relatively young but pitching will be challenged
Montgomery, JDM, Clevinger, Lorenzen still homeless
How exactly did Colorado improve?
Anybody think Melvin helped this along because he managed Snell last year?
Pretty anti-climatic considering we were waiting for this for a few months…
Montgomery soon to follow?
Probably so, if this is all Snell could work out. Montgomery’s ask must be lower.
In hindsight Snell has to be regretting not taking those offers from the NYY. If he pitches great for the Giants he might be able to secure a bigger deal whenever this contract ends.
Maybe, just maybe every player doesn’t want to be a Yankee.
Bigger deal
Didn’t work out this year, next year the same.
Oldgfan
There was mutual interest between the 2 parties earlier in the off-season actually
Rumors just rumors.
Unless you were there to witness…
AMEN
Say, know what a “Yankee” is?
Same as a “Quickie,” but you’re by yourself!
Kind of obvious landing spot based on what SF needed before today and what Snell wanted. Surprised it took this long.
I wonder what kind of beer Jarred will be swilling down in Dixieland (if he makes the team)?
Probably PBR.
A nice pick up for you Giants fans!!! Very nice!
NL West gonna be interesting.
Giants are morons.
But they are SF’s morons
Do tell. If you can think of anything.
Kudos to Farhan, although it’s like being in High School and asking every girl to the prom and being turned down. I’ll take Snell for a year or two any day over any Giants’ pitcher sans Webb. Now make a trade and get rid of Conforto – bundle him with Black and open up the outfield for Ramos. Then you’ve got a shot.
lol Ramos? I’m hoping you mean Matos?
Sorry. Yes, Matos. Not Ramos.
Conforto may surprise us this year.
It’s a walk year and he will need to have a good one to secure his next deal. He might end up a nice trade piece at the deadline if Matos is tearing up AAA.
Conforto says his lighter. Legs gave out on him last year. A nice surprise would be very handy.
I’m not impressed with Ramos, let him overachieve in AAA, if he does then give him a shot.
Now we need Kim to play shortstop.
I’m not impressed with Matos either, send him to AAA with Ramos and see who does better.
Ahhh we do need a lefty with a little power at least. Matos is ahead of Ramos for god’s sake…
Watch every game from east coast via Extra Innings. Ramos has been given many chances and not very good. Schmidtt not so many but except for quick start in 23, also not good. Matos better than both for future.
Bore-ASS sucks
1948. Keep suffering.
You worship a loser poverty franchise, sit down.
Boras way overplayed his hands this year. His clients are paying the price
How do you know it was Boras and not just Snell saying No! No! No! ?
My concern would be: what changed from his 21&23 season where he barely avg 5inn/start. Vs in 24 from May on? That is the question.
Cuz if he reverts back to his 23 production (which I hope he does not) he’s not worth $31M/yr
Dudes has two years out of 8 he’s pitched over 130 innings. Granted both were Cy years, but most likely he’s in nor cal for two years minimum
This is good for the NL west
NLW is pretty strong. Good luck, Colorado.
Who knows how it translates in the 2024 season but what an offseason for the Giants they improved their offense, defense and starting pitching drastically (really the bullpen is the only thing that might be worse). Webb, Snell, Ray, Cobb and Harrison down the stretch could be the best rotation they’ve had in 15 years.
Good job SF. Probably enough for 3rd place.
I can see anyone of the Padres, Giants or Diamondbacks getting 2nd.
DBacks are way better than both.
I think a lot of that is recency bias. The DBacks won 84 games last year with a -15 run differential. They played super well in the playoffs and are battled tested, but quite frankly, I would not be at all shocked if they finished 4th in their division.
They are better balanced than either SF or SD as it relates to pitching staff and position players. Walker, Marte, Carroll, Gurriel, Moreno, Perdomo, Thomas, Suarez, Pederson, good bench with Rivera and some studs in the upper minors. Pitching is solid with Gallen, Kelley, Rodriguez, pen lols good with Ginkel and Sewald. When they come to Petco, they are a good team to watch.
I don’t know. We’ll see. 84 wins at -15 is pretty rough. They have plenty of talent, don’t get me wrong. And if they happen to make the playoffs, they’ve proven they could do damage. I just don’t think it should be assumed that they’ll get to the playoffs again.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see them finish 3rd or 4th this year. Corbin Carroll is a star & Zac Gallen is an ace. But I see weakness on that roster and I don’t think there’s many guys that will pop.
Maybe Pfaadt takes a step and becomes a #2 type and Lawlar makes an impact. I could just easily see some other guys take a step back though.
Fangraphs agrees with you. AZ at 83 wins, SF and SD at 82. I think with all the holes SD has, 82 seems a little high. I would think 75-78 is more appropriate. Considering all of the holes in the order and in the pen.
Padres really don’t have many holes. Their pen actually looks very good and deep enough where they are going to send some good players down. The lineup has two question marks. One in left where Profar has been decent as a padre and one at 3b/dh with manny dh’ing right now. Though dh is an easy place to add to later. I’d say Merrill will out perform Lee this year at the very least they will likely be somewhat similar.
How long will it take him to get ready to pitch 4.2 innings with 5 walks?
Are we sure this is Blake Snell and not Blade Shell? Heyman’s spelling can’t be trusted…
ArsonJudge
Boras: “Hey Blake we need an amazing contract year out of you in 2023, if that happens the sky is the limit on your next contract”
Blake Snell ***Wins Cy Young award***
Boras “Hey Blake we scored you a two year deal buddy, great job”
LOL Boras sucks
Boras is the best. Not being sarcastic.
Lol Boras
Astros didn’t get him! YES!
Now Montgomery should do the same.
31mil aav is overpay though.
Great move for Giants. Dodgers and Yankees had to pass cause 30 million would actually have been 63 million. Astros would be taxed heavily too. Giants had second or third best offseason.
It still does not top last year’s signing of Arson Judge and Carlos “my ankle” Correa.
He left $90M on the table. Bad representation? Yikes!
LOL Boras got this guy a $15m payday for 2024 after a Cy Young season.
I seriously hope Snell fires Boras before trying this again.
More importantly… another right in the FA contest for me
Priorities!
“Coming off an otherworldly finish”….This site makes me laugh. Where do the writers come up with this stuff? I had to look up the definition of ‘otherworldly”. Blake is definitely not that! …. Just like when they say “he had a strong season” , when a batter hit .230 w/ 12 Homers’.
Albert, terms can be subjective and each person can give a term his own meaning but Snell’s stats from early May thru end of season (especially look at Sept.) have not been matched since Bob Gibson about 50 years ago.
Some might fairly call that “otherworldly” in relation to how many total years of SP stays that time period encompasses.
Quite unlike a batter hitting .230 with 12 hr!
“Have not been matched since Bob Gibson about 50 years ago” …. Never knew Bidenomics was apart of this message board.
Albert,
Excuse me for not knowing what your political innuendo means but 1968 Gibson has been considered the gold standard for best year for a SP and Blake was equivalent from May 4 on. April was bad but he did end the year better than Bob.
If you took time to actually look at his game lines on baseball reference you might learn some thing.
I’m glad the Astros passed on this one. $62mil for two years! This “opt out” is a Boras trademark but I’m glad Jim Crane was smart enough not to go for.
Farhan or AJ Preller. One of these guys will not make it to 2025 as lead front office executive.
Preller at least restocks the farm quickly so they can keep being competitive via trades. Not sure the padres will give up on that specially when they are under budget constraints.
Only one of them?
Fred
Wanna bet?
Uh, good luck there, Giants.
In all honesty- this is the contract he always deserved, from the get go. He earned 2 years at over $30M AAV from his performance, no more than that. 2 year/$62M is a perfectly fair contract for Snell at this point. I am actually surprised there isn’t a 3rd year option of some kind for $28M.
Anyway- this ended as it should have at the correct price point and number of years.
No brainer for the Giants. If he opts out that means he had a great season, and we save 30M next year. This is a smart “bridge” move to give more time for the young arms to develop. If he stinks up the joint or gets hurt, it’s only 2 yrs. No downside.
I was going the Yankees would get Snell. I live in New York and would love nothing more than the Yankees to splash on Snell who will pitch 6+ about 2 a year (just an approx) Go Oakland A’s
I’m still not convinced.
That seems like a good deal for SF. Was the NY offer actually verified? If yes, then he and Boras really laid a steamer on the porch. Or as someone else pointed out, he really wanted to stay west, everyone knew it and the offers dried up.
The optics look pretty bad for Boras’ tactics on this.
Well he can at least buy that nice $30mil home in Pacific Heights overlooking the bay(unfortunately he’ll have some homeless dude defecating on his front porch 4 times a week, so there is that)
@casualfan, I don’t think anyone passes up $90M to stay out west. Boras overplayed his hand. Plain and simple.
Fair enough. I wasn’t sure if the NY offer was verified or not. But yes, $90mil is a lot of coin to pass on.
Snell just had a baby and didn’t want to play in NYC when his GF and newborn are in Seattle. Do you blame him?
Boras didn’t make the call. Snell did. Why people think that agents make the decisions is beyond me.
Im more in the heavily influenced range. Why ? Because so many players answer basic FA questions with “I leave that to my agent”.
And finally… I can quit checking 20 times a day for this damn headline!!! Woohooooo!!! #hummbaby
Let’s GO!!!!!!
Max Fried can’t be happy about this development.
Especially if he has another injury plagued year.
All that waiting for Snell, and he signs for just two seasons @ $31MM per with the lousy Giants? Why such a short term for so little (comparatively), and why with a non-contender? You’d think he’d want another shot at winning the WS. (Maybe he has opt-outs after every game.)
@Brad Scott He simply aimed too high and waited too long. Boras had him dreaming of something like 7/$200m, but unlike Bryce Harper’s truly fluky MVP, everyone saw Snell’s TWO Cy’s as the real fluke, hugely unlikely to be repeated in his 30s.
Hard to believe he couldn’t have gotten Rodon’s deal, 7/$162m. He might have even been asking for 8/$240m and couldn’t adjust to the reality of what was being offered.
Because he is getting $17 million signing bonus plus a $15 million salary and will be a free agent again at the end of the season when he opts out.
$32 million and then back on the market with a base for his new contract that is higher than anyone was expecting this offseason.
A $17MM deferred signing bonus until 2026 and 2/62.
Everybody thought Blake Snell could get this deal from day 1. This is not what he wanted. He’s taking a pillow —& im surprised it doesn’t come with additional downside protection for himself.
Scott Boras is a chump and Zaidi owns him
Snell’s significantly overpaid given his history, but the Giants need him.
Still, he’s not opting out. 2/$62m is a LOT for a guy who’s going to give you 110 innings and 1.4 WAR, and who probably won’t be functioning as of October.
That Cy Young will be much, much further away during the 2024-25 offseason.
Didn’t he pitch 180 innings last year? Why only 120 this year or were you being sarcastic?
I’m sure there’s some sarcasm there. But he’s gonna need a couple weeks to ramp up. I’d say 160 innings is the over/under..
I’d lean towards the under
I am still mad Atkins lost Chapman to the GIants and replaced him with IKF
2024 Final Standings/NL West:
Dodgers,
Padres (yeah, that’s right)
Giants
D’Backs
Rockies
Next off-season, Boras will have Bellinger and Snell back on the market (maybe Montgomery too), adding in Soto and Alonso, and a few others.
Boy are you delusional. Padres don’t have a LF, when Manny goes back to 3B they will have no DH, bench is weak and their closer is well, not as good as the Giants. DBacks finish comfortably ahead of both teams. Unless Preller can fix the holes, Giants edge out Padres for 3rd. Bank it.