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Ouch!!!!
Averaging 98.0 mph and reaching 100 mph, but 6’8″ and 220 lbs., this one is not surprising and it is not on the pitch clock.
But he’ll be back, he has the immense talent. Wishing him a recovery as fast as his pitches.
Return to any level of performance is not guaranteed.
At least it’s not a shoulder there’s a good chance he’ll be fine but definitely sucks to lose a vital year of development and of course it’ll still take a while to ramp back up once healthy
This just sucks. I mean, at always does, but really gonna miss seeing this kid play.
Genuinely a top 5 most exciting pitcher in the league. Hopefully he comes back stronger and can stay healthy
You know when you’re sick and it keeps you from normal activity a few days and you get frustrated? That feeling for 18 months at a high level sucks.
Prayers for a good surgery, these young men have a lot of post playing years to live in their bodies.
One of the most grounded and mature comment on here for a long time
Nice sentiments but the user name got me to reply. Reminds me of a guy from an old yankees forum.
River Ave blues?
The one I’m thinkng of is older than RAB. It was called something like ny.yanks.com was a very big site about 15-20 years back. There was a guy who had a user name Tabata is coming. He kept the user name even after he was traded and ended up being a 4th outfielder.
Mike from RAB has a Patreon if you miss his writing…
You hate to see it
The Marlins must have done something terrible to upset the baseball gods.
They drafted a lot of high powered arms. Only so much exertion can be put on an elbow. Sucks to see this for Marlins, Perez, and fans. Hopefully MLB’s study or whatever current thing is serious and not just window dressing. The game is being deprived of alot of talent with all these pitcher injuries.
Very bad for the Marlins considering there 0-7 start to the season
THEIR 0-7 start is even worse.
Unfortunately, they dropped to 0-8 after today’s loss. Sad news about Perez but there is good news on the Horizon, both Cabrera and Garrett are expected to begin rehab assignments this weekend.
That wasn’t my point.
We understood the point. Your just going to have to except some errors.
I ACCEPT your error, lol.
My bad, reading is fundamental and I missed it. I see your point.
The moment he “felt something off” anyone with common sense knew it meant TJ
What a shame
Great talent
Screw the mlb for forcing kids to throw 100
This is what happens time & time again
MLB forcing kids to throw 100? Ummm, excuse me? That’s a very shallow take, Johnny. Come back strong Eury!
With all due respect Gwynning, Johnny had a point. I understand many would say pitchers from 30 years ago wouldn’t be able to compete in todays game, but if Velocity was emphasized as much back then as now, are the Glavine’s and Maddux’s given a chance to be as great as they became? Tough to think there isn’t a link between throwing at max velocity all the time and being so focused on it isn’t at least part of TJ being so much more prevalent
Respectfully Yoshi, I disagree. Nobody is forcing pitchers to “throw harder”- they just go out and perform to their abilities. Perhaps throwing harder can tweak the human elasticity more, and granted, I don’t like the pitch clock (Umps should have been held to enforcing the pre-existing rules) but blaming MLB for pitcher injuries is, again, shallow. It goes deeper than finding an immediate scapegoat.
There’s a lot of variables that could be causing increased injuries, but the pitch clock has to be among the most likely causes.
Consider the following:
Pitchers on Injured Reserve to start the season:
2024 – 131
2023 – 88
2022 – 66
2021 – 61
2020 – 56
2019 – 60
2018 – 66
2017 – 57
2016 – 61
This is only one data set, one way of evaluating injuries, but it is interesting. There was a steady number each season even after max velocity and spin rates were emphasized many years ago. Yet dramatic spikes over the last two seasons suggest something more recent is causing a new problem.
It’s not absolute proof of any one cause, but it is pretty clear that something has changed these last few seasons.
@canuckle
thanks for putting up #s. its funny how so many uneducated delusional “fans” think there’s nothing wrong with the game, and the rule changes are perfectly fine, meanwhile the facts are staring at you right in the face and people are just ignoring them, choosing to believe their own theories. its such a sad shame whats happened to mlb the past 5 years. absolutely disgraceful and sad
Also, nowadays everybody is throwing weighted balls, not that long ago nobody worked-out like that. It’s another variable. Is it healthy or is it creating extra stress on arms ?
@niekro
some pitcher got injured recently bec he was working out with weighted balls. cant think of the name now. but he’s out with an arm injury and it was bec of the weighted balls. anyhow, nothing stays the same i know, and mlb 2024 is not your granddad’s game but alot of these injuries are easily avoidable. the way guys train, the way they’re encouraged to throw harder and faster and play harder and tougher. meanwhile most players are brittle and are babied. add in ridiculous playoff format & rule changes and the gm is boring and nearly unwatchable most days
@Yoshis I definitely think the high velocity in general is an issue. Some are poor mechanics but it seems some are just exertion as well.
Look at Casey Mize, Pedro was on MLB Network warning of his mechanics and imminent injury yet nothing changed in his mechanics. Then of course just as Pedro warned TJS follows. Sad that a HOF pitcher commenting on MLBs own network broke it down for all and the warning fell on deaf ears.
@niekro
i remember the pitcher now. Gavin Williams
very talented young pitcher for cleveland
he was throwing weighted balls in a workout. and then went on the DL. about a month ago now
Anecdotally speaking, my pitching coach had us “ramp up” while throwing croquet balls as an exercise. It DEFINITELY helped reach max velo, and beyond general regular soreness, I never had an arm issue. In fact, upon reflection, I believe our entire rotation stayed (pretty) healthy for a couple years.
We used weighted softballs warming up to this day. I swear by them my arm feels so much better throwing.
Now if someone was not throwing it ad though it was weighted I could see it being an issue. In those cases tho I’d chalk it up to Darwinism.
@Tigers, Exactly, Smoltz did the same thing a few years ago and that too fell on deaf ears.
@ Canuckleball
Excellent post. That’s certainly eye-opening data.
“Anecdotally speaking, my pitching coach had us “ramp up” while throwing croquet balls as an exercise. It DEFINITELY helped reach max velo, and beyond general regular soreness, I never had an arm issue. In fact, upon reflection, I believe our entire rotation stayed (pretty) healthy for a couple years.”
cool story bro
Goes to show, weighted balls don’t always cause problems. And that’s the point here- anybody can get hurt for any known and unknown reason. Representation doesn’t equal causation. Now tell us a cool story for once, Johnny Bro-tah.
@Canuck, thanks for providing the #s. Definitely seems a statically abnormality. Hard to ignore or dismiss pitching clock either seeing that.
There is also another unique outlying factor out there as well. Many of the young pitchers coming up right now missed an entire year of organized development recently(2020).
I still stand by not seeing how being rushed would be the primary factor unless it alters mechanics. Tendons when exerted do what is called loading which is essentially releasing stored energy. They don’t tear and recover like muscles where over exertion over tears. They function like an elastic band. When used too often or stressed to an extreme They break like a rubber band would.
When having a tendon replaced or repaired They re super tight and take a long time after healed to stretch out over lengthy rehab. When I ruptured tendons in hand I had hooks glued to nails with bands that other end went to a cast and slowly had to stretch over months.
With that said, looking at data set you provided I’d guess pitch clock definitely a factor. As well I’d assume many of these young pitchers have either some issues in mechanics or issues with repeatability. Which would definitely be a problem that would only get worse while being rushed. Coupled in with the emphasis on velocity seems like a recipe for disaster.
@Johnny While I understand you don’t like the rule changes or Manfred and I can’t blame you. I’ve gotta ask which facts are you referring to? The only fact Canuck provided was a significant statistical anomaly. So coming to a conclusion based off that would be anything but fact.
Seeing as the pitch clock was just implemented its hard to ignore it as a contributing factor. Last year being only 2 years removed from all MiLB players having no organized instruction or development is also very hard to ignore, especially with the youth movement that’s been going on on MLB. 2020 was unprecedented as far as MLB farm systems and something the game has never seen.
This is also a time where the kids who grew up in 2000’s with the explosion of travel teams are reaching adulthood and hitting MLB. These kids are coming into MLB organizations with a ton of use already in their arms. Now I do think this is a contributing factor, I doubt it played much a part in the jump. I’d assume that it’s part in pitcher injuries would be a more gradual and steady incline.
Lastly, it could just be a true anomaly that just happened. Now this I very highly doubt especially with the timing. But looking at that data set it still is a possibility even if miniscule.
So I wouldn’t completely dismiss anything. Nor can we assume it was any one singular factor. As I mentioned in other comment it could be a mix of the factors that compounded what had already been a preexisting problem.
As far as the rule changes, I’m not exactly a fan. But the rules have been ever evolving. MLB also has to adapt to the times if in order to stay in existence. Speeding up the game was something that needed to be addressed and was an issue. I do think the pitching clock was an extreme answer and over kill, it was still addressing an issue.
Bigger bases I think is pretty insignificant. The only real impact is it skews stats in a historical sense.
Now the 2 rules I have the biggest issue with are banning the shift and ghost runner. Starting an inning with a player on base I just find to completely bypass all fundamental rules of the game. Bases are supposed to be earned in some fashion. As for banning the shift, I think it is rewarding futility. To me it would be the equivalent of NBA having had a 2nd foul line for big players like Shaq to address that they can’t hit free throws. If a player pulls the ball that hard and it’s that predictable, it should come at an expense. There’s been a solution forever to stop a team from shifting, hit the ball the other way. It’s been a basic principle of the game “hit em where they aint”.
I feel the same, Tiger. Good point about the 2nd foul line!
As your team was belting my team in Game 4, Krukow was talking pitch mix. He has been doing that every Giants game with every pitcher for about 20 years. He was talking about how it’s been evolving. % of fastballs being thrown way down, % of off speed way up. As I understand it, much more stress on the anatomy with off speed. Fastballs are easier to throw. So I’d suggest the increasing use of off speed is causing the injuries.
Nope. More injuries still arise from the fastball. Splitters, curves, sliders have all been implicated but studies still show the onset of symptoms most commonly follows throwing a fastballs. Andrews had it right. This all starts with too many pitches thrown prior to skeletal maturity. It results in an externally rotated proximal humerus that can throw harder but to the detriment of elbow and shoulder anatomy.
Also blame pitch clock
Players throwing so hard & fast need a few moments in betw pitches. It’s not a coincidence half The pitchers in the league are going down with arm injuries as soon as they change the rules.
I don’t think the pitch clock helps in any way. But I don’t think the impact is all that significant for the TJS. Tendons and ligament damage aren’t rest and recuperate like muscles so the timing shouldn’t be much of a factor. Now if the muscles in the arm and forearm being rushed adds stress to tendons and ligaments, I’m not sure.
Biggest factor in rushing them I’d think would be mechanics. I had thought these pitchers were kinda locked into delivery through repetition and muscle memory, but maybe that was a false assumption on my part.
Regardless this is getting to the point where MLB should have everything in the table including pitch clock to address this issue.
when has mlb ever addressed any issue? manfred is a joke. he cares only about ratings and revenue. owners only care about profit. very few people involved in mlb actually care about quality of the game, preserving tradition, entertaining fans, keeping players healthy, and upholding integrity of the game. there is zero integrity, zero accountability, and zero care for players or fans.
They have addressed a few like PEDs but definitely not timely and seemingly always reacting after the fact.
I remember reading they re currently doing some study, but again it’s already late.
“Screw the MLB”…Another fake outrage phony using baseball websites to promote his anti business, corporate sponsored “socialist” views, right Johnny?
Nothing wrong with being anti-business. If business really cared about employees, organized labor wouldn’t have had to give employees the 40 hr work week, company payed insurance, among other things. It’s just a shame that corporate entities and business owners are allowed to raise prices and keep wages the same in order to keep the profits that line their pockets booming. MLB just wants to keep churning money for the owners so they promote gambling sites, spin rate, and the like, while teens get addicted to betting, pitchers blow out their arms due to the torque it takes to spin the ball faster, and they just have some cheaper, younger rookie take the spot of the guy who retired after his comeback from his 2nd Tommy John Surgery before 26 years old didn’t work out. Shame on MLB, greedy corporate pigs, and The Man!!
“Screw the MLB”…I love the way lefty phonies partner with and support the true evil of the world(Hollywood, MSM & Silicon Valley,) and disingenuously attack rather benign sports leagues 24/7, right Johnny?
If MSM was so bad, why can’t the right just use all of their money to make their own media company where they can report on whatever they want and how they want to? Oh yeah. That would require them spending their oil profit money and actually creating jobs.
“If MSM was so bad”…You protect the corporate MSM because that’s what keeps “people” like you on top, right Karen?
Cough, cough, it’s PED’s and more sophisticated training. Your UCL isn’t going to get stronger just because you figured out a way to throw 5 MPH more. The money, fame, and glory is forcing guys to throw this hard.
Screw the mlb for forcing kids to throw 100
=======================
Nonsense. No one forces them to throw 100. They throw 100 because they can throw 100. No one is going to throw a 94 mph FB to Ohtani simply to preserve their arm.
And it is the same in every sport, Players run and skate and hit as hard as they can. It’s what allows for the big paydays.
Yes they do. A YouTube channel called Tread Athletics has recently popped into my feed. Essentially young minor league pitchers at some (I assume 3rd party) facility undertaking a pitching session. Just throwing their pitches and getting realtime feedback. Coaches laptop giving trackman data on spin rate, ball axis, velocity, how far it moved off what plane after every pitch. Coach pairs that data with video of the throwing motion on his phone and off they go. All over it and young hungry dudes have embraced it.
young hungry dudes
=====================
That’s all I’m saying. If I were a AAA player and thought I could 2 mph to my FB by over-throwing, I guarantee you I would.
@Johnny utah: But sense is not common.
Correlation does not equal causation
So does this mean G. Cole will be having TJ?? I chalk it up to bad luck and hope he has a speedy recovery.
Bad for the Marlins after starting 0-7, they need to hope for a comeback
More residuals for Tommy.
As a Yankees fan, this is what I fear for Cole
As another Yankee fan, I too had the same concern as you did about Cole and his elbow. But after he met with Dr. Elattrache and was assured that he didn’t have any significant damage and TJ surgery was NOT needed I’m much more optimistic Cole will be back in a sometime this season. And IF Cole is able to come back FULLY Healthy, Im predicting the Yankees to win the East and Pennant this year
Cole is following the McCullers game plan. You’ll see.
Nothing is coming up fish this year
Fish are not biting.
Tommy John caught another fish.
Where’s Anthony Bass when the Fish need him?
@Gwynning
No thanks to Anthony Bass. We have enough relievers blowing leads already, and enough bigots in Florida. We don’t need another one on both of those fronts.
It was (mostly) a fish joke! =)
I can touch that too. We prefer other seawater critters moreso than bass – like Atlantic Salmon.
I caught a Black Marlin in Hawaii, 202 pounds! Cheers bud
Wow! Now that’s a fish!
It’s amazing how often “tightness” with no structural damage turns into TJ
Ugh. That’s going to be a big wall for the kid to climb…
But but but I thought limiting innings would help with injury prevention! Eye roll.
It’s ALMOST like kids at 20 years old should be cut loose and not have restrictions. Did you recover better at 30 and 40 years old or at 20? It’s pretty silly that teams are willing to let DeGrom or Verlander throw 180 innings, but will stop Eury Perez at 125 to save him from injuries.
I mean after all, it worked out really well for Strasburg. Hahaha
With the rule changes and all, I’d see MLB allowing the teams to carry additional pitchers.
Protecting pitchers will be like protecting QBs in the NFL.
“With the rule changes…carry additional pitchers”…If the MLBPA wasn’t so concerned with making sure the top 5% of professional baseball players get $300M+ contracts(and ignoring the needs and best interests of the other 95% of their members), they would have pushed for 30+ man roster 15-20 years ago. You just gave some of the arguments for this and it’s quite an EASY case to make.
That is exactly what they did by going to 26 player roster from 25.
It’s always just a matter of time.
How soon before we can start talking about a “Curse of Kim Ng?”
You mean the curse of firing Kim Ng?
The Marlins bullpen since Kim Ng was hired has been a curse and has caused many of us Marlins fans to curse the bullpen and Kim Ng. They just can’t hold leads…except for most of 2023.
Oh, and you won’t hear any Marlins fan missing Ng. Prior to her good 2023 Trade Deadline, it was a foregone comclusion she was going to be fired for the 2 1/2 years of incompetence that non-Marlins fans want to pretend didn’t exist.
Why is my comment deleted?
Is it against the rules to point out that the bullpen constructed by Kim Ng has blown another lead today? And perhaps another game – fourth one so far out of the eight games the Marlins have played so far?
Technically, she resigned. It was a travesty for them to basically demote Kim Ng after a playoff season.
Susannah, just curious why? Yeah they made the playoffs but if she was bad as it seems I don’t see anything wrong with the demotion. I mean the Buffalo Bills made the playoffs last year and yesterday traded way their best WR in Stefon Diggs.
@Susannah
Travesty is a strong word. The most I would give it is that it is odd. But non-Marlins fans are the only ones complaining. Us actual Marlins fans know that she did a poor job…and had she not had a good 2023 Trade Deadline, it was a foregone conclusion she was without a doubt going to be fired for 2 1/2 years of incompetence.
Tommy John should be in the hall of fame with how much he impacts the game to this day. In all seriousness, this sucks.
Former Beloit Snapper bit. Sorry to hear that we all have to wait him perform in 2025
It won’t be long until Sherman unleashes Bendix to do what he does best – sell everything to the walls and go into permanent rebuild mode. Let’s be honest – when all these pitchers return from their various and sundry surgeries, they won’t recognize most of the players on the field behind them. South Tampa Marlins in ‘25!!!!
Fish ain’t scoring runs. Feature Perez in a trade package that gets a proven MLB thumper as the featured piece from the other side?
Can’t change what’s gone down thus far. I’m just going to relax and enjoy another fun season of baseball in South Florida. I love the Marlins (no matter what), loanDepot Park is a beautiful venue, and baseball itself is the greatest game ever invented. Things are far from perfect. But it’s a long season, full of twists and turns – and full of surprises. Anything can happen (and usually does). I’m just going to let it ride, take it in stride, and see how it all shakes out. To me, everything starts with scouting, drafting and player development. Mr. Bendix? Let’s go, you’re up!
I love the Orioles (no matter what) and baseball to me is the greatest thing since sliced bread. All said, just got off a 5 year run (2017-21) of watching losing baseball from the CF seats at OPACY. Its always been just a bit more enjoyable being there (and Memorial Stadium back in the day) when the Os are winning.
@C Yards Jeff
I think what the Orioles have accomplished in terms of developing homegrown talent is nothing short of remarkable. Hope you guys go all the way this year. The Marlins need to learn from your example and use the same blueprint to build a powerhouse team – from within. Like back in the days when Dave Dombrowski was our GM (1993-2003).
That’s the only way to get it done. We can’t short-cut our way to success.
And spin rate claims another victim. It’s a shame because while I root for the other Florida team, it was going to be fun watching the Marlins rotation of Perez, Sanchez, Alcantera, Puk, Meyer, and others over the next season or two. Now, it might just be 1 or 2 of them.
Bring back the knuckle ball and the ephus pitch. Less damage to arms and elbows.
Interestingly, the screwball was eliminated based on belief that it was causing injuries, but the belief was all anecdotal, and there’s was actually no clear link between that pitch and injuries.
Yesterday we see an article saying that if the Marlins sink any further that we could expect trades of the remaining players and then today this.
Who is traded first? Luzardo? Arraez? Chisholm?
Bell and Garcia are expensive, but maybe the Marlins eat money to get good prospects back.
None of Luzardo, Arraez or Chiholm.
Most likely Bell, Anderson, Tanner Scott, and Avi (if he does something). And yes, I’m pretty sure the Marlins would eat money to get a return and rid themselves of Avi’s contract.
And the Marlins bullpen, BUILT BY KIM NG, blows another lead!
The Marlins should look into their training programs. Almost all their pitchers have gotten injured.
At what point would teams with a reasonable budget just give up on developing starting pitching, punt the position entirely, and just endlessly rotate through random arms that get them innings? I know it’s not that bad yet but you can have the best rotation of young pitchers and it means nothing in a year if they all get hurt, and it’s such a waste of time getting the rehabbed and back to a good innings total. Just spend 5M at most on your rotation, and load up on the lineup and bullpen and pray for the best.
TINSTAAPP
So, who’s the idiot that a month ago said “Inflamation” and that he just needed rest?
You know no one will admit to that.
Well, this sucks.
Oh well, it isn’t like the bullpen holds leads. It’s a loss season anyway.
Barely old enough to drink and already threw his arm out. There’s countless videos and studies being done on the TJS epidemic they’re all just theories. A solution starts with acknowledging there’s a problem. Easier said than done after all the NFL has denied CTE for how long was it?
I just don’t think the elbow was designed to throw a baseball 100 mph over and over for a period of years.
Except for Nolan Ryan
Facts!!
For every Nolan Ryan, there’s 100 non Nolan Ryans
More bad news for Marlins and MLB fans. Marlins fans have to be wondering when it’s acceptable to start talking about next year?
The situation with Eury Perez reminds me of Alex Reyes.
TJ is happening at epidemic proportions. Makes you wonder how pitchers like Clemens and Mo Rivera avoided TJ.
Yanks2323, I don’t recall either of them constantly throwing 100Mph pitchers. Especially Rivera ..