7:40PM: Roberts updated reporters (including Jack Harris) with the news that Ryan has a UCL strain. It is still too early to tell if the injury can be treated without surgery, or if Ryan will ultimately need a Tommy John or brace procedure.
1:38PM: Dodgers starter River Ryan is done for the season after suffering an elbow injury in his last outing (per Juan Toribio of MLB.com). Manager Dave Roberts says the team is still figuring out the proper diagnosis and the next steps for the 25-year-old hurler, but he will not be able to return to the mound in 2024 (per Jack Harris of the LA Times). Even if Ryan is able to avoid a worst-case scenario of a major surgery, he simply won’t have time to rest, rehab, and return before the end of the year. The Dodgers have placed Ryan on the 15-day injured list, and recalled Landon Knack ahead of today’s series finale against the Pirates.
Ryan is widely considered one of the top pitching prospects in the Dodgers organization – if not one of the top pitching prospects in baseball. Although a shoulder injury held him back at the beginning of the year, he has looked phenomenal since his return. The righty posted a 2.66 ERA over six starts at Triple-A and a 1.33 ERA across his first four starts in the majors. His four-seam fastball sits just above 96 mph, and his slider and curveball both look like they could be dominant secondary offerings. Ryan’s underlying numbers aren’t quite as impressive as his ERA, but his 4.50 SIERA and 3.97 xERA are still solid for a young pitcher who was thrust into a big league role sooner than expected.
Indeed, Ryan made his big league debut after the All-Star break because the Dodgers were desperate for pitching. Today, he has become another one of the team’s many injured starters. The situation is a little better now that Tyler Glasnow and Clayton Kershaw are healthy and Jack Flaherty has entered the equation, but Ryan now joins such teammates as Yoshinobu Yamamoto, Walker Buehler, and Dustin May on the injured list.
It is only a matter of time before Ryan is transferred to the 60-day IL, likely when one of Max Muncy or Tommy Edman is ready to be reinstated. President of baseball operations Andrew Friedman told reporters (including Jim Bowden of The Athletic) that Muncy and Edman could get back on the field during the team’s next homestand, which begins with a series against the Mariners on August 19.
Knack, 27, has made nine appearances (eight starts) for the Dodgers this year, pitching to a 3.07 ERA and 4.00 SIERA. He has a 3.97 ERA in 59 innings at Triple-A. While he is primarily a starting pitcher, he will join L.A. as additional bullpen depth, likely just until Buehler makes his expected return on Wednesday.
Dodger trainers all need to be fired.
It’s not the fault of the trainers. It’s an MLB epidemic.
@Van Lingle Mungo:
Cool screen name! The SABR biography on Mungo is good, but really long.
I’m trying to think of a Dodgers SP prospect that hasn’t had a major arm injury within a year or two of reaching the bigs?
It has to be close to a couple of handfuls, maybe more. Maybe they need to take a look at their PD program.
Zerbs63 and Van Lingle Mungo; or is it a combo of both?
“All need to be fired”…I can’t for the life of me understand why Major League teams don’t consult with the guys in “MLB Trade Rumors” comments section before diagnosing and treating injuries. It seems with benefit of hindsight, these guys always know the best course of medical action. Just out of curiosity, did your Medical “degree” come from a box of Cherrios or was it Lucky Charms?
The site has all the best sports medicine doctors, but for some reason the teams refuse to hire them.
And all the best GM’s in the sport.
I know! I’m starting to think it’s collusion.
I don’t think any(or not many)of us really has enough background, inside information to even comment on specific injuries, diagnoses or treatments. To criticize a doctor, or trainer, you need to have more(or at least as much) background and inside information than he does. Not to mention specific knowledge of injuries, medical treatments and diagnoses.
The dodgers had it comin
You don’t have to be a genius to be a Major League GM. You just need some common sense and a real good accountant at your side to do that. A really good scouting staff rounds out the trifecta and the conviction to stay the course. Unfortunately hardly any of the 30 GM’s have much of that if any and then you add in ego and you get the stupid bidding wars that have turned it all into comedy. Common sense and conviction are what’s lacking in the GM profession.
Also Mike there doesn’t seem to be a lot of original thinking or thinking outside of the box. I keep hearing MLB is a copycat league and that these GM’s just try to copy each other’s best ideas. (Like how everyone wanted a GM from the Rays organization for awhile there.)
UncleMike
This would seem to be an excellent example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. From an abstract:
“People tend to hold overly favorable views of their abilities in many social and intellectual domains. The authors suggest that this overestimation occurs, in part, because people who are unskilled in these domains suffer a dual burden: Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it. ”
semanticscholar.org/paper/Unskilled-and-unaware-of…
Ah, The extremely technical way to say what I basically said. LOL. But well said none the less. Thanks for that. I’m glad that there is an actual theory to back up what I said.
And the best post-season manager and best post-season future HOF starter.
UncleMike
In a hilariously ironic twist, I was referring to you
I don’t think you have a clue what it takes to be an MLB GM
Well I have Common Sense and Conviction so there’s that. But I don’t have to do the job just criticize those who do it badly. And they give me plenty of ammunition to work with. Hoyer is the ultimate ” Shiny Bauble” GM. And he works for an Organization that wants to remain below Tax but still employs him. he mismanages it to a fault every year. I’d be better at it than he has been. We can only hope he ” Gets it” for 2025.
UncleMike
“Well I have Common Sense and Conviction so there’s that”
Kewl
“But I don’t have to do the job just criticize those who do it badly. ”
Of course not
I still, based on your comments, think you have no idea what it takes to be a good GM.
Well like they say, Opinions are like you and everyone has one. But your team still has no idea how to develop a pitching staff without them making at least 1 trip to the TJ surgeon so good luck. And your Manager is horrible.
UM
Yep. You’ve stated your opinion. And I think you have no idea what it takes to be a good GM
I would love somebody (not me-too much work) to come up with the value of “dead money “ across MLB.
That’s how you determine how much stupid money an owner allows the GM to squander.
Lon
I can tell you right now that that number is negative
We know this because of the value of MLB franchises.
If teams were paying players more than their value, the teams would not have value
A corollary to the Dunning-Kruger Effect: “every job is easy, provided it is done by someone else.” I don’t know about you, but hardly a day passes in my life when I don’t hear this idea expressed by someone.
The rule needs a name. I humbly suggest calling it the Uncle Mike Syndrome.
Whatever works. That’s what sucking at your job in a high profile environment is what they took on.
What?
Another arm bites the dust under Roberts watch.
Yeah it’s Roberts fault major pitching injuries are a prerequisite across the industry right now
I don’t feel like you’re using the word “prerequisite ” correctly…
Prerequisite to getting established in the majors leagues is definitely an accurate statement
It’s actually all mark priors fault!
Prior is teaching the pitchers how to get injured since he’s the guy that’s career was ended by injuries
That was probably Dusty Baker’s fault. I wonder how Prior felt about the ceremony on Friday to induct Baker into the Dodgers ring of honor
Prior teaches the inverted W mechanics that ended his career. It gets the pitcher added velocity, but is brutal on elbows.
Is Prior teaching all teams that technique. Seems like most teams have the same issue. I am sure it doesn’t have anything to do with the expectation that all pitchers must throw in the mid to high 90s.
Other than Matt Brash, the Mariners pitchers don’t seem to have elbow issues. Their pitchers have been extremely healthy over the last several seasons.
You forgot Robbie ray, Bryan woo, Gregory santos, even Andres Munoz has missed time with injuries
We are definitely fortunate to have not lost a ton of people to TJ but we are far from extremely healthy
Munoz not an arm injury. Ray did need TJ under Mariners watch. Woo was drafted while recovering from TJ and they have always been extremely careful with him and really hasnt had a major injury and just being cautious. Santos was basically injured upon arrival as well. Not saying M’s havent had any injury but have basically been using the same 5-6 in their rotation for the past two seasons with occasional spot starts.
Fox, the Dodgers organization is leading baseball in elbow injuries. While Prior is not teaching other teams to use that technique, nearly every team does have pitchers using it. You can watch film of all the guys that went on the IL with a major elbow injury this season and tell me what percentage of them use it.
The inverted W is when the position of the throwing arm being internally rotated and abducted (elbow raised above hand position) above the shoulder line at foot plant. Motion capture assessment has shown how this particular technique places undue stress on the elbow.
See photo of Prior in this – https://www.chrisoleary.com/media/pics/pitching/epidemic/pitchers/prior-mark/Prior–Inverted-W-000-00-380x.jpg
A few articles about it.
chrisoleary.com/pitching/epidemic/death-to-the-Inv….
theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2011/06/the-…
There is a huge amount of science that confirms the problem, including a study by the Mayo Clinic. Will any of that stop pitchers from using it? No, because the game is all about velocity today and it increases a pitchers velocity.
This is another great article. clients.chrisoleary.com/Pitching/The-Epidemic
Seem to recall you being adamant it was prellers fault padres sustained pitching injuries back in 2021 that derailed their season. But now it’s not Robert’s fault. Hypocrisy / homerism at its finest.
And you are lying. I have ripped Preller for his transactions often but blaming him for injuries? Send a link or don’t make such ridiculous statements
Not lying at all. You’ve definitely criticized preller handling of the pitching staff namely over reliance on analytics (spin rate, off speed stuff) as reasons his directives have led to injuries amongst the staff.
Just funny you critique preller but dont think the dodgers namely Roberts are doing anything wrong (despite a fair usage of analytics).
Again. Hypocrisy and homerism is fine. Just don’t be mad when you’re called out on it.
Now I really know you’re lying because I have never once said spin rate on this website and I don’t ever criticize GMs for being analytical. I just think Preller has had a decade to build a winner, yet to win 90 games (although that could change this season) and trades like its MLB the show doing thinks like trading a ridiculous price to rent Tanner Scott that no other GM would do. Never once blamed him for Padres injuries. Padres and Giants fans always have the personal attacks but at least make it based off something I actually said lmao
Over reliance on analytics*
“Now I really know you’re lying because I have never once said spin rate on this website“
Well least you admit you did criticize preller overlying on data to determine types of pitches guys should throw (off speed stuff, sliders) and how it impacted the health of guys. Thanks for admitting that. Notice you denied spin rate but not Preller having guys throw sliders (off speed stuff) at above average rates in previous years.
Again. Being a homer being a hypocrite is fine. But just realize days gonna come where you’re gonna have egg on your face for doing such.
It’s funny how more ridiculous the lie gets. No, I have never criticized Preller for anything to do with data, numbers, relying on pitch shapes leading to injuries. Either you have me confused with someone else or you’re blatantly making up stuff. I have egg on my face yet you can’t link a single post to my claims. Go ahead and find it. Should be easy. You can search by names to find articles such as Preller and Padres. Go ahead and show me
My cat has fleas. Definitely the fault of Dave Roberts.
And we have a winner for comment of the day!
I agree, Blue.
Your cat has been around Mark Prior too much, that is for sure.
Yes, this clearly is 100% Robert’s fault and has nothing to do with player development, scouting, or the front office.
/s
I thought the kid put a lot of stress on his elbow on that great throw to first on the first batter of the game
To me, he’s a kid.
Yeah, I would. Why not? He’s 25 not 50.
@JobberDoug Referring to rookies in professional sports as “kid” is commonplace. It’s not an insult, it’s a colloquialism, chill out.
What is hilarious is that Kershaw called him kid in an interview after Ryan’s start in Oakland.
lol is this kid trolling? what a Karen.
Did your meds run out?
LOL why not? Do you seriously think River Ryan is as thin-skinned and insecure as you that he would get upset by it?
He’s a kid in terms of major league experience.
Kid is a relative term
When I first started out working in plumbing I was hey kid until my late 20s. Wasn’t till I hit my 8th year with the company that the journeymen in their 50s stopped referring to me as kid.
Was it by any chance right around the time you stopped looking for the left-handed pipe wrench?
Never really played pranks on me. Coffee errands yeah. Giving me the worst jobs first couple years happened too. But like every industry gotta earn your bones.
LMAO.
Red Sox and Dodgers should swap managers. That would be fun to see
Cora should be banned from MLB permanently.
I actually liked Cora. I defended him for years, but I thought resigning him and not letting him go is absolutely asinine. It is time to move on.
He’s horrible at handling a pitching staff.
Not in the postseason. He’s helped more than hurt then, but that’s also because it was awhile ago. Don’t think he’s the same now
Man this sucks. He had really promising stuff and was showing a bit more ceiling than the other young arms in the rotation this year (i.e. Knack, Wrobleski).
Ah, River Ryan’s Through, It seems.
Guys named River seem to be cursed.
Please no TJS!
Michael Kopech is fully capable of reverting back to being a starting pitcher.
Was he named after River Phoenix?
Kopech? I seriously doubt it.
Nah he’s better suited coming out of the pen.
Kopech has closer stuff.
Brilliant response @rememberthecoop
. Haha.
Dodgers curse from the deferred contract. This team will see bad outcomes until the contract is through. The baseball gods are ruthless.
Just like when the Nats did similar and… Won the world series
DD
“Just like when the Nats did similar”
Strasburg
Checkmate!
Didn’t the Nationals sign Strasburg to that big extension AFTER he was the WS hero for them?
Yes, of course,
Buehler should be back this week. Dodgers will be able to keep the spinning plates in the air a bit longer.
I’ve seen WB’s stats for his 8 games in 2024. I wouldn’t be too excited about his return, unless you are a d-back or Padre fan!
@Longtimecoming Velocity comes back before control after TJ, he looked sharp in his latest rehab outing, hopefully things are starting to come together for him
While he only gave up one run, Buehler still was having command issues in that rehab game. 3 B. 85 pitchesin 5 IP with only 48 strikes. He needs to do better than that to not get lit up in LA.
dang, admittedly I had only seen a headline that included the word “sharp” and took it at face value
He doesn’t look sharp at all but someone mentioned he was throwing “easy”. His arm action and mechanics looked easy. I don’t know if that means there’s more in there for LA? I hope so but I’m more interested in B Miller and what happened to both these RHP? Is there something to this M Prior causing the problems due to his trying to add Velo???
Dodgers got the Knack!
I wonder if his mom’s name is Sharona.
Why yes it is, gbs. Why?
gbs- I was wondering if anyone would get the reference or if I was aging myself too much! glad you did!
Today’s Special word is Twelve. Twelve is either the age of some posters or their IQ. Cast your vote.
Mojo – why limit the choices with the “or”?
Point taken LTC
Today’s special word is thirty-six. As in years since the Dodgers won the World Series. You can count 2020 if you want but the majority of fans don’t.
and another “12” has spoken
@I_speak_the_truth any evidence of the “majority of fans” claim? I’m not a Dodgers fan and I acknowledge that 2020 was a unique year for obvious reasons but it definitely contained a World Series and the Dodgers won it and I think most fans recognize that.
All 30 teams had a shot at winning the 2020 series, like every year.
All 30 teams had a chance of winning it, and of course, plenty of salty fans from the other 29 complaining how it was not legit. Of course, had their team won instead I’m sure there would be a different take, but they will deny that today.
speak,
Unless you have asked 50.1% of baseball fans, you do not speak for the majority. The Dodgers won more playoff rounds than any other team, so their title 2020 is legit in my eyes.
I figured the odds were 60-40 that a discussion of 2020 would come up here in this unfortunate injury report about River Ryan. Mojo I think we’ve found an 11
Mojo: always bragging about your high 37 IQ.
Gotta feel bad for the kid because he just made The Show.
Careful now, you called him “kid”, some posters don’t like that language for a rookie 25-year-old it seems….
Probably most people on here are kids to me, including everyone playing in MLB.
But 25 years hardly makes him Old Man River.
Another Dodgers pitching prospect gone for 2 years…….
Bummer ! Kid looked real good. Get well soon.
So what’s their plan for a playoff rotation? Flaherty and Glasnow are obviously locks then whatever combo of Stone, Buehler, Kershaw and Yamamoto I’d healthy/effective enough?
Gmen: 7 weeks left to figure out which 2 of that second group…
My guess is Yamamoto and Stone if I had to be honest. Kershaw looks shot and Buehler sure didn’t look good in his return (but it could definitely just be shaking off the rust for him).
Given the Dodgers experience this year, there’s no real point speculating who will be available in October, but if the season ended today, I’d feel fine with Stone starting game 3. Kershaw and Buehler have some work to do to prove effectiveness. Yamamoto is contingent on being healthy. I don’t rule out Bobby Miller getting his shoulder (and head) on straight if there are more injuries. Nice to have depth.
Stone is a few innings shy of his career high. And honestly, dude hasn’t looked all that good in the last month. Wouldn’t be surprised if they shut him down soon….
If it’s Glas, Yam and Flah, just those three, then it’s very formidable.
What do you take for a case of glas, yam and flah?
I’d lay off the Honeywell, but an injection of Gonsolin and a double dose of Graterol wouldn’t hurt.
I had to ask.
Brew, good to hear from you. Ironically, Glasnow has now exceeded his max IP for any year of his career by 14 (10%}. I think everyone agrees he is always an IL candidate in general but how many innings does he go of he avoids IL. 8 more starts at 6 = 48 and that is a fairly significant increase year over year.
NL West can get very interesting in the next 6-7 weeks. Even your giants are in play for 4 teams from NL West making playoffs!
Snakes, Pads, and LAD all getting stars back even. Makes for a fun end of 2024.
Blue, fortunately for you the light has turned green and you can move on, thanks for chat and the coin in the can.
LT it’s a fun year. Usually we need binoculars at this point see first place,
This type of comment will always be a head-scratcher to me. Unless a player has a chronic condition, injuries in baseball are pretty much random events. Meaning, you can’t really predict them. Glasgow has been quite unlucky in his career, but last I checked, bad luck is not a chronic condition. So counting innings for him is a meaningless exercise unless you are predicting he will come down with another bout of unluckiness because he’s been unlucky before. If this is your thinking, I’d like to explore the methodology with you.
Blue – just a recognition of where he stands in light of his historical highs. Do they let a guy double up year over year even if not injured? There is always some innings management in play to avoid injuries.
Innings management happens with younger guys or RPs being stretched out to SP, but as we’ve seen with Lugo, Waldron, King, etc… it’s a player by player decision. Glasnow’s injury history doesn’t seem to fit the model that he’s rushed or overused. In fact, relative to the rest of the league he’s been relatively healthy this year. I would guess that LA has no real reason to limit him in the final stretch.
I take your point, but this assumption also depends on randomness. A pitcher who goes down with a UCL injury midseason will statistically show two low-innings seasons, the one in which they were injured and the other when they come back (usually, a year or so later if it’s a TJ). The same surgery in the offseason typically means missing all of the next season and if their recovery goes well, somewhere close to a full season of work when they return. The injury is the same, but the way it looks by the numbers can be very different. As far as recovery is concerned and their workload afterwards, every player is their own case. The Dodgers traded for Glasnow and extended him, and they have access to his medicals and we don’t. So I figure they know more than we do about his likeness to be injured again and how much workload he can take on.
Blue, I don’t think I was making any assumptions either way or predictions. I just stated a fact and wondered if it might come into play in the decision making for that particular player based on how some teams manage innings for some players.
I recall Strasburgh being shut down early for example sake – not comparing or predicting. Just stating an example of why I mentioned what I mentioned.
Not trying to rile the Blue nation.
No problemo. I just hear statements like “he’s never pitched more than 100 innings in a season” being used way too often to make predictions. I don’t see the Dodgers as conserving his innings. They skipped a couple of his starts but that’s pretty common these days. He’ll start the first game of the postseason almost without a doubt.
His pitching style still gives me the heebie-jeebies though. I wonder how a pitcher can spike so many pitches and still be effective. He manages it somehow.
I think trying to use data to predict injuries is a “non-science”. There may be some backward looking correlation sometimes that might make sense for discussion purposes but still, the next pitch a guy throws is the one to worry about in my book. Similar to pitch counts – can’t be a good idea to go over 120/game but it isn’t a science either. Pitch less increases odds of no injury – maybe, but if you pitch at all, you are susceptible to a blow out on the next pitch.
Gonna be a fun last 40 or so games in regular season for sure.
I hope Musgrove is ready to go with Tatis soon to follow just like you guys are hoping for Betts. Not having the stars is no bueno.
Fwiw, Brian Cashman has vaguely mentioned that the Yankees are using advanced camera tech to help track pitcher fatigue. That could be why there has been no mention of a Luis Gil innings watch.
That is interesting. I have heard of SD using some convoluted metrics involving multiple factors. I think all of this means that they are spending money trying to figure it out which at least is a good thing. Wouldn’t bet on any reliability and no, I haven’t heard any team or player suggest that they are going to reduce effort to 90% or not try max spin, etc.
They can all do the strengthening and flexibility work and hope for the best but the next pitch they throw at max effort with max spin may be the one that goes boom!
The best predictor of future events, is past events. In 7 of his 9 seasons in MLB Glasnow has spent 20% or more of the season on the IL. In 2020 and 2024 he only spent the minimum on the IL. In 9 of 9 seasons he has at least gone on the IL. Have to applaud his consistency in getting hurt.
What’s the odds of them being healthy for the playoffs to be locks?
My, aren’t you a sad fellow?
Half of our pitching rotation is filled with injury prone pitchers and the other half is filled with young and inconsistent pitchers.
But don’t worry. I’m Sure Friedman is on the phone with Rich Hill to save the day.
This was my concern for the Dodgers going into the but I am surprised Glasnow has stayed healthy tbh
Watch Rich Hill come in and just dominate in his old man form lol
The “AJ Preller Curse” is real…
Another day , another TJ
At least he is accruing mlb service time.
Maybe it’s time to look at the pitching coach. The San Diego Padres had Roger Craig involved with them in the late ’70s. During that time I think they had six or seven starters that all suffered very serious injuries. Randy Jones and Brent Strom were among them. There was a lot of talk in the press regarding the long-term effects of something Craig was teaching them.
Craig taught split fingered fastball n there was alot of discussion that it was hurting Ps cause of stress it put on tendons. There was spell where u saw it disappear from college n minor lge Ps repertoire. Ohtani throws 1 n has had 2 elbow procedures. Just saying. Don’t know that they ever figured out if it truly was hurting Ps. When I was in college we were forbade to throw it. Was hot topic then.
Unfortunate development that River Ryan ran through his UCL when he attempted to throw. Guess you could say a River Runs Through It. Or River Runs when he Threw it.
Good thing that the Dodgers picked up Knack. Get the Knack I say. My sharona
no luck in la
See you in 2026.
That’s unfortunate after four good outings into his MLB career.
Looks like River Ryan’s season just hit a dam – now he’s got to go with the flow on the injured list!
What a bummer. Baseball has an issue. It needs to openly addressed. Lotta these guys are blowing arms out with relative little mileage on the arm. I liked what Pedro said about how he came up and what La did to strengthen the arm overall. Maybe time to go back to move forward.
You’d almost expect any free-agent pitcher to sign with the Dodgers during the next offseason to blow out his elbow just using the pen to put his signature on the contract. Or maybe there’s a curse on Chavez Ravine?