The Blue Jays announced that they have reinstated right-hander Max Scherzer from the 60-day injured list. Fellow righty Spencer Turnbull has been designated for assignment as the corresponding move. Ben Nicholson-Smith of Sportsnet was among those to pass it along.
Turnbull, 32, was a notable free agent this offseason. He had a good season with the Phillies last year on a rate basis, posting a 2.65 earned run average over 54 1/3 innings in a swing role. His 26.1% strikeout rate and 47.5% ground ball rate were a few ticks above average with a 9% walk rate that was right around par. His workload was limited both by the Phils shuttling him between the rotation and bullpen, as well as a lat strain that kept him on the IL for most of the second half.
Despite the solid numbers, he lingered unsigned into the season. The Blue Jays had lost Scherzer to the IL after just one start and made various attempts to replace him in the rotation, giving chances to guys like Easton Lucas, José Ureña, Paxton Schultz and Eric Lauer.
They added Turnbull into the mix by signing him in early May, technically on a $1,265,306 salary but it was prorated to an even $1MM since some of the season was already in the books. Since he missed all of spring training, he agreed to be optioned to the minors to build up, though with a 35-day limit before he needed to be called up.
On that optional assignment, he seemed to struggle to get his velocity up. He averaged less than 90 miles per hour on his four-seam fastball in his Triple-A outings, despite being at 92 mph last year and in the 93-94 mph range in his previous big league seasons. Regardless, with their 35-day window closing, the Jays called him up in mid-June.
His first two outings were in relief and were reasonable enough. He started with two shutout frames against the Cardinals on June 11th, then allowed one run over 2 1/3 innings against the Phillies on the 15th, averaging around 91 mph in those outings. The Jays gave him a start against the White Sox on Friday, which did not go well. His four-seamer averaged 90.3 mph as he allowed four earned runs in two innings. He now sports a 7.11 ERA in his small sample of work this year, with his strikeout and walk rates matching at 12.1%, a subpar number in both cases.
While Turnbull has struggled to get into a good groove, other pitchers have outperformed him. Lauer, signed to a minor league deal in the offseason, has a 2.21 ERA in 40 2/3 innings for the Jays this year. There’s certainly some luck in there but his 25.5% strikeout rate is strong and his 8.7% walk rate around average. The Jays could have kicked Turnbull into a long relief role but Schultz has a 3.80 ERA, 27.7% strikeout rate, 7.4% walk rate and 41.7% ground ball rate. He also has options, meaning the Jays have some freedom to shuttle him to Triple-A when they want a fresh arm.
With Scherzer’s return, he will join Kevin Gausman, José Berríos and Chris Bassitt in the rotation. Bowden Francis landed on the IL about a week ago due to a shoulder impingement but Lauer has seemingly taken over that spot.
Put it all together and Turnbull heads into DFA limbo, which can last as long as a week. The waiver process takes 48 hours, meaning the Jays can take as long as five days to explore trade interest. Given his form so far this year and his salary, teams might wait for him to hit the open market. He has more than enough service time to reject an outright assignment and elect free agency while keeping his salary in tact. It’s possible the Jays skip the formality and simply release him.
If that comes to pass, teams would be able to sign him and only pay him the prorated league minimum salary for any time spent on the roster, with that amount subtracted from Toronto’s commitment. That could be an attractive flier for some clubs, given Turnbull’s past work. As mentioned, he had decent results as recently as last year. From 2019 to 2021 with the Tigers, he posted a 4.13 ERA in 255 innings with a 21.9% strikeout rate, 9.1% walk rate and 50.3% ground ball rate. He missed 2022 recovering from Tommy John surgery and struggled in 2023 but bounced back with the Phils last year. His 2025 hasn’t been amazing so far but it’s also followed an unusual trajectory.
Photo courtesy of Nick Turchiaro, Imagn Images
Kinda glad for that hasn’t looked great since they signed him. Nice to see the jays getting some pitching back. Mad max back, big puma has started his rehab throwing 96, Lauer has been fantastic and I believe Garcia is getting close. Hopefully jays can get a mid rotation stater between now and the deadline jettison Green from the pen should help this team immensely.
Let’s not pretend the Jays are not in a vulnerable position with their pitching. We cannot count on Max making another 12-15 starts. It would be a gigantic blessing if he does.
Oh there’s problems but at least now they have a decent rotation going if they can get 1 more decent starter I have faith that max and lauer can be a decent #5
Decent does not cut it with a suspect bullpen and batting order if you are a contender. Us Jays fans need to aim much higher than decent. Decent is the mid 2000s to early 2010s Blue Jays.
Who are you calling big puma? Because whichever pitcher you’re referring to can’t use that as a nickname because Lance “Big Puma” Berkman earned it many years ago.
I believe that’s Manoah who’s not ready to return.
Big Red gets the Ziggy (a Dick Vitale term – look it up).
Does Turnbull call Harris for a job opportunity or has that bridge been completely burned?
Plenty of teams looking for very good starters.
Turnbull had no hitter not too long ago.
Turnbull threw his no-no 4 years ago. That’s a lifetime in MLB.
That bridge was burned down and hauled away. No way Detroit would have any interest.
I think that bridge was evicerated from both entry points.
VITALE witnessed Adam and Eves birth!🤣
Why should we have to do the labor of looking up the term? You introduced the obscure reference, you should also do us ignorant ones the favor of explaining the concept. Look at it as a service to the community and a chance for others to learn about your hero/hobby horse. But I’m not looking it up.
Didn’t get much of a shot
Didn’t do much with the shot he was given.
I eagerly awaited his arrival to the Jays….but he didn’t seem to give an effort when given the chance.
Seems like a waste to pay a guy $1M for like 6 innings! Not the wrong move dropping him but that was a wasted signing.
He was getting lit up in the minors
ah good point, I should have at least looked that up. if he’s cooked, he’s cooked. too bad because dude was pretty good not that long ago.
He’ll be back next week when Max suffers a season ending injury.
Spring training matters. I don’t think I’m ever going to believe in any pitcher that misses it again. Every year these guys who wait and sign late turn in poor results.
This is pretty much all on Turnbull. He knew he wasn’t going to perform in ST which is why he declined the several minor league deals he was most certainly offered. Spencer Turnbull hates….HATES….the minor leagues.
He just got $1 million to try for 2 months.
If anyone gives this washed up, has been another contract they should be banned from running a major league team.
I think he wasn’t signing in spring due to lack of interest because his velo is trending down. Only averages 90.9 mph on the fastball now, down 3mph from 3 years ago.
I’m sure having spring would have helped him get ready, but he’s also just less effective because his stuff isn’t as good.
It really matters. Your absolutely right
I want Max to throw 50 innings during the regular season if he also throws 50 in the postseason.
Turnbull needed another start or two in the minors before being called up. The Jays rushed him up when he wasn’t built up enough. Unsurprisingly, Turnbull wasn’t completely sharp. Now, he gets DFA’d after he was rushed
It probably wasn’t his call.
If Turnbull had received a decent offer, then he would have accepted it and done Spring Training
He was holding out for a major league contract. I’m sure he was offered a bunch of minor league deals. He hates the minors. He thinks he’s too good for that. Even with the Jays, he scuffed in his build up time in the minors. The Jays were forced to call him up…and he didn’t excel. Why bust your hump in the minors when you know you’re guaranteed to be called up and get paid no matter how you do?
But, he got his $1 million.
Turnbull had to be called up within 35 days of signing. So no one rushed him up, presumably that was a term by him/his agent to make sure he didn’t rot in the minors
He was rushed. He wasn’t ready to pitch in the majors when called up. He was set up to fail & he failed
Say it with my Eric.
They. Contractually. Had. To. Call. Him. Up
Turnbull was probably praying the Jays would just let the 35 day window expire and he could go home with a million dollars in his pocket.
BS
He is a major league baseball player trying to rebuild his career after Tommy John. Some take longer to recover. Some are never the same. Some come back stronger than ever.
I’m sorry but that’s inaccurate. He may have had TJS years ago but he certainly recovered from it. He had a decent half season last year. He has the dreaded lat strain. It looks like missing spring training hurt him the most.
He missed regular Spring Training.
Maybe, he needs alittle more time to ramp up.
Turnbull can pitch when ready and healthy.
His résumé includes a no hitter
as a starter.
For his major league career (currently in his 7th season) he has one season pitching over 100 innings. In that one season (145.1 inn) he managed a 4.61 ERA and a 103 ERA+.
He almost certainly could have used more ramp up time. He almost certainly wouldn’t have been a difference maker. He’s a back of the rotation arm who had a fluky no hitter (as many are)
Spencer Turnbull was the best Tigers starter with the best stuff during a very painful Tigers rebuild.
His straight stats are misleading since he pitched for some very bad baseball teams with subpar defense that INFLATED his ERAs and DEFLATED his own pitching stats
At one time, Turnbull was was the Tigers #1 starter with better stuff than: Matthew Boyd, Daniel Norris and very young Tarik Skubal, Casey Mize, Matt Manning etc.
If he can get healthy and get his stuff back , then Spencer Turnbull could certainly help a number of playoff caliber teams.
I think whoever picks him up, will probably send him down for a minor league assignment to get work in before getting called up to the big league team.
Would be happy to see my team(s) pick up Turnbull who is a quality person and player.
Verlander’s stats went into the toilet in his last few years in Detroit also since most of the good players had been traded off the team or left because they could not stomach a long tear down to the studs and rebuild.
They did the few veterans left like Verlander big favors by trading them to contending teams.
If Verlander had stayed in Detroit and wasn’t traded to Houston, then no championship ring, bad team, bad stats and no more Cy Young Awards on those last place Tigers teams.
JD, Avila, Verlander, and Upton were all traded at the 2017 deadline. Kinsler traded following the season. Those veterans underperforming were a big pat of why the rebuild started.
There is pretty much zero chance of Turnbull coming back to Detroit. There was bad blood both ways when he left.
Yes, and the only player who has had any semblance of a major league career out of all the guys the Tigers got for all those guys is Jake Rogers. A career +2.5 WAR.
The 2 they got for Avila, Candelario and Isaac Paredes, made most of their marks with other teams.
That Parades for Austin Meadows trade has to be one of the worst of all time.
@warn Part of those trades led to Tigers acquiring Reese Olson.
I wished they would ve traded Fulmer back after his ROY season. He was clearly way ahead of a realistic timeline for a rebuild as his service time had started and his value likely could only go down which ultimately it did.
It might ve taken awhile but luckily we get to watch a competitive team again. Last falls hot streak was probably most exciting non playoff Tigers baseball I have seen since 2006.
The Tigers got Olson for Daniel Norris whom they got from Toronto for David Price.
None of the trades involving Verlander, JD, Upton or Alex Avila had anything to do with that.
I did not say he was aquired at the same deadline that JV was traded. I was just mentioning he was aquired when they started to tear it down. In my opinion it pretty much started when they didn’t resign Scherzer. From that point the only large signing was the disaster that was Zimmerman.
Reese Olson was a great deal by Al Avila pulling a rabbit out of his hat.
You are taking my comments out of context.
The Tigers aging, over priced veteran players clogging up their roster in 2017 were the result of former Owner Mike Illitch asserting too much control over the then Tigers roster.
Mike Illitch would not let former POB Dombrowski do his job and wheel and deal players @ peak value to keep the team young, hungry and contending without a major rebuild.
And, it was issues like that that lead to the falling out between Ilitch Sr. and Dombrowski.
(Like Arte Moreno has been doing with the Angels that has not lead to the best results).
Mike I got too close too the Tigers veteran star players,. He overpaid vastly for their services. Mike I was reluctant to let Dombrowski trade those aging, overpriced star players who he thought of as “family” even as they became a drag on those Tigers teams.
Dombrowski could have been allowed to do his job, trade some of those veterans @ peak value for packages of top young players and prospects and keep the Tigers pennant contending team rolling.
Remember, Dombrowski traded Granderson @ peak value in a 3 team deal with the NYY and Dbacks that netted the Tigers a young Max Scherzer (before he was a star) and other useful young players.
Once Boras and Scherzer rejected the Tiges best offer, then he should have been traded for a boatload of young talent.
Ditto for some of the other veterans who still had value as trade pieces at that time in 2014 or after the 2014 season.
It was time.
It would have been a “smart retooling” that kept their window of contention open.
I was posting this at that time so don’t give me the “hindsight is 20/20 comeback line.
Decisions made by Mike Illitch turned a short retooling into a long, drawn out, tear it down to the studs rebuild for the Tigers.
Other paths to contention would have been quicker for the Tigers.
Avila made some good deals and some bad deals like any MLB GM.
Make a list of all the players currently on the Tigers team and roster.
Then trace back how they came to the Tigers.
Many of the latest breakout Tigers young stars were drafted or traded for by Avila including OF Weceel Perez and C Dillion Dingler.
Dombrowski & Avila acquired Norris, Boyd and Price.
Avila acquired Reese Olson.
Yes all the trades and the paused rebuild have everything to do with the returns the Tigers received for Upton, Verlander, JD Martinez etc.
If you compare it to buying and holding stocks, Mike I blocked the selling of the Tigers stock in their veteran players at peak value. When Chris Illitch finally green lighted a teardown and rebuild, the stock assets (Tigers veteran players) had dropped too much and the value caused the Tigers to sell/trade them at substantial losses over prior values.
Trade those veteran stars before or right after the 2014 season @ peak values and the returns in players and prospects would have been much higher.
Mike Illitch should share a large part of the blame since he acted like Angels Owner Arte Moreno and
Mike Illitch blocked both Dombrowski and Avila from trading many of the Tigers aging, high priced star players for bucket loads of younger, cost controlled talent.
By the time Avila was given the go ahead to trade those veterans (2017 versus 2014 or 3+ years later), their value had dropped to much lower levels with their high salaries and declining performances.
Dombrowski traded away all the young talent from farm system and players deals were ending and the price of winning was catching up.
Im bot saying this to place blame on Dombrowski. He kept Tigers competitive and contending for 10+ years. The windows simply had closed.
You apparently like Turnbull. I don’t. I think he’s a big, greedy, grifting baby.
Turbull was the unfortunate victim of the Front Office Changes
from the Avila Front Office to the Scott Harris Era.
It happens.
Dombrowski and Avila drafted Turnbull.
Turnbull, like Matthew Boyd and others
“took one for the Tigers team” by gutting it out in a very bad
“teardown the team to the studs period”
that was long overdue and laid the foundation for the present Tigers team.
Harris and his team were wise to hang onto the good drafted players, trades and acquisitions done by Avila.
The present Tigers team that has the best record in baseball
is loaded with Avila acquired and drafted players:
Reese Olson, Casey Mise, Dillon Dingler, Tarik Skubal, Spencer Torkelson, Riley Greene, Jake Rogers, Wencel Perez and
many more were Avila’s drafts, trades and signings.
Avila was a great scout and had an eye for talent.
He made some bad moves too and had some bad luck with the Tigers failing to launch earlier or he would still be in charge of the Tigers.
I supported the hiring of Scott Harris.
It was time to turn the page on the Avila Era
even if it was before most of the foundational talent Avila
acquired was ready to contribute to the Tigers New Contending window.
Point I was making about Turnbull, Verlander etc was
that their stats were, unfairly DEFLATED by the teardown and rebuild. It is much harder to get wins as a pitcher and solid All Star stats as a veteran player when all your protection on both offense and defense is either gone or has declined so badly that
no good pitcher or team will give your best remaining offensive players anything decent to hit.
And, the rebuilding Tigers Defense was terrible also.
Those factors also tanked the stats for both Verlander and Turnbull
and were not an accurate judge of their talent while they were with the Tigers sinking ship before the great rebuild started in ernest.
Discussing Turnbull and Verlander in any sort of similar context is ridiculous. Turnbull has only pitched 1 complete season, 2019 and he was 3-17.
Covid year, 2020, nobody had a full season.
2021, yes he threw a no-no then got hurt and didn’t come back until 2023. When he came back, whether he was ready or not, he got shelled and then pouted for the rest of his Tiger tenure.
Dombrowski had a relationship with Boras and decided to give ST another shot. It was acceptable, but hardly remarkable.
Spencer Turnbull is the anti-Justin Verlander.
I agree with you re. Avila’s drafts. However, he mostly had really high draft picks. He had the benefit of having the pick of the litter. His biggest flaw was he telegraphed all his trading. Other GM’s just waited him out and ended up fleecing him. He really blew the Verlander trade, though I don’t know how much Illitch muddied the water. The return for JD Martinez was pathetic. I remember Avila crowing about the 18 yr. old kid, Jose King. The poor kid only played 7 games above A ball. He was released 3 years ago.
It remains to be seen if Harris can make an impactful, deadline trade. Dombrowski is the standard. Avila was awful at it. Avila was not so good at free agent signings. Harris, to me, is 50:50 in that area.
Harris has benefitted from Avila’s drafts. Harris appears to be a decent drafter as well…but time will tell.
Harris is on the clock. I’ll be interested if he can pull a rabbit out of his hat and pull off a Doug Fister trade like Dombrowski.
His agent, Boras, asserted his rights in a grievance that protects injured players from being sent to the minors.
That is one of the reasons players have a Union, Agents a collectively bargained set of rules that MLB must follow.
It doesn’t make Turnbull and his reps greedy as you say.
It makes them smart protectors of his health and long term career interests..
When ever this FO speaks, the calliope music is faint but as audible.
I think half the Blue Jays rotation has been in the Brewers org at one time or another – Bowden Francis, Paxton Schultz, Eric Lauer, etc.
All kidding aside, this ranks right up there with the Jays dumping Ryan Yarbrough for Richard “Dicky” Lovelady, whom the Blue Jays also quickly DFAed. Scherzer will quickly re-injure himself, and the J’s will find themselves scrambling for innings. Yes I know there is the right now, but August, September, and October gets very hot quickly. Let’s see if Chad Green (or whomever you think should have been dumped) ends up out performing Turnbull or Yarbrough going forward.
Bring him home, Dave.
Dombrowski?
Dombrowski drafted and signed Turnbull and so others when he was POB in Detroit.
Dombrowski already brought Turnbull to the Phillies with excellent results last year.
Turnbull wasn’t fully healthy last year coming off Tommy John so they had to ease him in.
Turnbull was one of the Phillies better pitchers when he was healthy.
In 2024, Turnbull produced these numbers for the Phillies:
3-0 with a 2.65 ERA 54 IP 58 Strikeouts & 1.049 WHIP.
Get Turnbull ramped up in the minors for the Spring Training he missed and he is a good bet to help out a contending team.
Please. If Turnbull was so good last year for the Phillies why is he sitting at home right now?
I predict he will get another look before this season is over. Anyone who signs him will just have to pay a pro-rated ML minimum salary to him. The question is, will he be willing to really try when he’s at AAA? He gets paid the same regardless.
It might be just as likely he sits at home collecting his Blue Jays money and waits for the off season when he can finagle another ML contract from some desperate GM. The Angels are good at these crummy deals.
Bottom line. Spencer Turnbull hates the minor leagues.
Max Scherzer is a payroll bandit. 3 innings so far for 15 million. He will be hurt again. He fooled them.
Well, he’s pitched 3 more innings than Alex Cobb has for his $15 million.
Great work if you can find it.
That is the gamble you take on any pitcher returning from injuries
even future Hall of Famers like Scherzer and Verlander.
Max Scherzer is a future Hall of Famer.
If he gets healthy and has even 40% of his game working
than he may still be a mid rotation starter that can eat innings
and win his team some crucial games in a pennant race and playoffs.
I don’t begrudge Scherzer any money he makes.
He has paid his dues.
He has earned every penny.
Father time is catching up with Scherzer and Verlander.
It happens to everyone.
Teams know the deal when they sign veteran, future Hall of Fame pitchers and players.
Scherzer’s and Verlander’s leadership, work ethic, experience,
winning attitude and championship pedigree lift their entire
team especially the younger pitchers who have not tasted playoffs and World Series successes.
I have no issue with Scherzer or Verlander either. Both were beasts on the mound. No matter how much they were making or how they felt, physically, they just wanted to beat your brains in. Always 100%, maximum effort.
Unlike some other guys we are mentioning in this thread.
Until Turnbull can build himself up
for at least 150 innings,
then maybe he would be better utilized
as a “spot starter” and bullpen guy.
Build him up and put him into high leverage situations in the pen.
If he is ready this year, then spot start him for long schedules and injured starters.
.
If not, he could be very useful in a contender’s bullpen when he gets his pitches back on track
Turnbull may be looking at 2026
before he takes the ball as a full time starter again.
Hard to build up when you struggle to get outs.
Ha! Spencer Turnbull will never pitch 150 innings, total, in whatever is left of his career. I doubt he ever gets to 50.
Wow! Everyone is an expert now!
We won’t know until Turnbull gets ramped up,
gets a fulltime pitching opportunity in MLB
and they just leave him alone and let him pitch.
Watch. Just watch…and learn.
I’m sure some dufus GM will be hoodwinked by Scott Boras into giving Turnbull some more money. Turnbull will give it a cursory, halfhearted shot. He’ll get some innings at the ML level. Maybe even a couple decent outings, then get rocked and stub his toe or grow a blister. Go on the DL for 10 days, come back, get rocked again, then DFA’d.
15 innings here. Another 15 there. Maybe he’s got 50 left in him.
“Turnbull, 32, was a notable free agent this offseason.”
So notable, he has already been signed, pitched, and been DFA’d before his status on the MLBTR Free Agent Prediction Contest is updated.
You’ll have to do better if you hope to convince me to buy a subscription!
Turnbull didn’t have it in his minor league starts prior to the callup. The callup had to happen not just contractually, but by-virtue of having no SP depth in the organization. Maybe he gets a shot in spring next year and uses this time to consider his options.
Dave Dombrowski & Phillies are looking for bullpen help @ the trade deadline.
Tigers could use more bullpen help.
Padres could use more depth both in their rotation and in the bullpen.
Many teams looking for good arms and targeting such at the trade deadline.
Would be surprised to see Turnbull watch the rest of the season @ home on his couch. He has too much talent to sit out the year.
The Tigers are absolutely, unequivocally, in this time, in this universe…. DONE WITH SPENCER TURNBULL.
Good to know Scott Harris!
Pick a better, more creative fake posting name next time!
Soon boarding flight to S. Korea. Hope he gets back to form
Mike Elias, don’t even think about it!🤣
Mike Elias had made some great moves drafting position players
and completely rebuilding the Orioles into a decent team.
But compare the Orioles of their “glory days” with the Mike Elias Orioles
and what stands out?!
Orioles winning Divisions and Championships had dominating starting pitching. One year the Orioles even had 5 starters who each won 20 games.
This new version of the Orioles is lite on starting pitching
and deep with position players.
Yes they did. Starters routinely pitched every 4 days. 30-35 starts/season was common. They rarely topped 90 mph. They threw 120 or more pitches per outing. Mickey Lolich once threw 170. There were very few, real, full time, lock down relief pitchers.
It was the era of Nolan Ryan and Lolich. 300+ innings. 10-20 completer games/yr.
Tarik Skubal has thrown 1 complete game in his career.
Back then hitters didn’t wear all the protective padding. If we want to see a return to that type of pitching performance there needs to be a ban on the protective padding on hitters
It’ll never happen. Safety over game integrity.
The game has changed.
The Tigers ruined Mark Frydrych’s arm by over working him with something like 250 innings as a rookie.
Turns out he had a blown rotator cuff before anyone knew what that was and before they invented Tommy John surgery.
Tommy John doesn’t include a complimentary rotator cuff procedure but I get your point. Problem is Fidrych wasn’t even Top 10 in the American League in innings pitched.
That was the norm back then. Bigger parks, bigger foul territory to catch outs, inferior bats, no bat grips, inferior baseballs, inferior batting gloves, and plenty of padded protecting on today’s hitters not seen in the 70’s.
Ralph Houk ruined Mark Fydrych. I consider Houk the all-time worst manager in baseball history. I would have won the WS ’61-’63 as manager of the Yankees. Houk burned out every pitcher he ever had.
Billy Martin won with the Tigers….then Houk couldn’t manage them to beat a Little League team….then Sparky came along and restored them to respectability.
Wow,….. I didn’t see that coming…….HA ! 🙂
Karma isn’t just a stripper.
That’s awesome bro!!! Classic.
I’d be surprised if Max gets more than 10 starts. He hasn’t been able to pitch very many innings in a few years. He is done.
Kershaw and many other future Hall of Famers
started to show the signs that the end of their careers was
not too far off.
Same with Scherzer and Verlander.
The body gradually breaks down after 10, 15, 18, 20 years of pitching.
At some point, you have to hang up those spikes before it is too painful to play with your own young kids.