Right-hander Wilber Dotel will join the Pirates on Sunday, the club announced. Fellow righty Cam Sanders was optioned back to Triple-A. Dotel is among the top pitching prospects in the organization yet to appear in the big leagues. He’s already on the 40-man roster, so an additional move was not required.
The 23-year-old Dotel was off to a rocky start in Indianapolis. He was knocked around for eight earned runs in his first two outings. The righty tossed 5 2/3 innings of two-run ball in his most recent appearance, which came last Sunday. Dotel will initially pitch out of the bullpen, per Colin Beazley of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. Pirates’ relievers had to cover nine innings in a wild 13-inning loss to the Rays on Saturday.
MLB Pipeline ranks Dotel as the No. 12 prospect in the organization. He’s behind Seth Hernandez (No. 2), Hunter Barco (No. 4), and Antwone Kelly (No. 8). Barco has already had multiple stints with the big-league club. The 19-year-old Hernandez was the club’s top pick in last year’s draft. Kelly began the year with Dotel in Triple-A, but he’s scuffled to a 9.75 ERA.
Pittsburgh signed Dotel out of the Dominican Republic in 2020. He’s generally delivered solid results from a run prevention perspective, but control has been an issue. Dotel had a walk rate above 11% at every minor league stop heading into 2025. He was able to trim the free passes to an 8.0% rate in 27 starts at Double-A last season. The righty also boosted his strikeout rate to 24.5%, his best mark since 2022 in the Complex league.
Dotel hasn’t made a relief appearance for a couple of seasons. Pittsburgh has a sturdy top four in the rotation with Paul Skenes, Mitch Keller, Bubba Chandler, and Braxton Ashcraft. Carmen Mlodzinski was used as a traditional starter in his first three appearances before coming in behind an opener in his last outing. He’s been effective this season, holding down the fifth spot in the rotation while Jared Jones works his way back from elbow surgery. Dotel doesn’t have a clear route to a starting gig at the moment.
Photo courtesy of Thomas Bender of the Sarasota Herald-Tribune, via Imagn Images
Why did they move the game up a hour when they saw all that rain coming? Skenes was only able to go 4 innings before the rains hit. Their stupid move caused them to burn their bullpen and turn a win with Skenes on the mound into a loss. What an incompetent organization.
Yeah. They’d been talking about this storm system for 3 days. They had the timing down. If you were going to move it, then either move it to 12:30 or make it a night game. When I saw this change, I agree, I thought it made no sense
Big crowd there for bobble head and to see Skenes start. Getting to ballpark half hour early is understandable. But if you didn’t hear the change in game time and show up at 330 4 and it’s in the 6th 7th inning you probably are going to feel like you didn’t get your $ worth. Might be some kind of rule you can only move it up so much.
I get that
The point was that it shouldn’t have been a “day of” change. They knew the rain was coming for days.
Don’t know what they can do. Probably can only move it up so much or they would.
Actually the game on Saturday should have had a starting time of 1:35pm
Like WUOT pointed out, they knew this storm was coming for several days
Or started a bullpen game and had Skenes come in after the rain delay
come on, we’re talking about an incompetent organization, with Cherington at the helm
Making sense has never been one of their strengths
The incompetent move was Kelly’s in bringing in a rookie who walks as many as he strikes out.Sure,the bullpen was depleted,but unless it is Carmen M,you would only get an inning from him anyway.Sanders was just called up and deserved a chance to get his feet on the ground.Bring in your other relievers then throw him in in the ninth in case you have a bigger lead,and have someone warmed up as soon as he puts two guys on.
Wait,that is exactly what Kelly did today!
Kelly has blown two games and they should be 15-7.
And Cherington kept no pitching depth in AAA so that Kelly had no one who he could depend upon for the last two relief pitchers.
This is not rocket science.
What AAA pitching depth was there to keep?
Pen was extremely worked. So much so they had to call up another new guy and use him.
Unfortunately you have to use every single reliever. Up 4 to nothing about as good as it gets.
Not when you bring in Cam Sanders it’s not.
If they had to pitch him like I said before Kelly should have waited until late in the game and gave him a short string.
Like he did with Dotel.
Sanders should have been dfad long ago when they gave away Nicolas and Shugart.
Neither one of these guys is Mariano Rivera but they both had ML experience and had not done poorly unlike Sanders.
Harbin is the other rostered pitcher who has not done well anywhere and would not have been selected in the Rule 5 draft because no one would have kept him on the 26 man roster.
No short string when pen is toast.
It became toaster after he gave up a 4 run lead and it cost them four extra innings.
Article says barco has had numerous stints with the pirates. I see only 1,this year
2 games last season in the bigs, right at the end of the season.
Ty monkey..but to me that’s just a 2 game at the end if the year courtesy call.
Do tell, Dotel!
I’m curious if Wilber is related to Octavio, but I haven’t found any evidence that they are.
Has anyone told Cruz that he can swing at pitches in the zone?
He just struck out looking having never taken the bat off of his shoulders on all three pitches
How long are they going to go with Bart and Davis as catchers? How many interference calls will Davis have? You trade bednar to the Yankees for their best catching prospect and he’s in Indianapolis. You trade for 1 of Bostons best prospects, an outfielder and he’s at Indianapolis. Hes got to be better than cook or magnum,who shows nothing in the clutch. Again mismanagement of player personnel by cherrington and donny shelton
Not one of Bostons best prospects. You don’t trade your best prospects for a Oviedo. You don’t have rookies sitting bench so he would have to replace Cruz Reynolds O Hearn. He is also hurt so can’t play anyways. Doing awful in AAA so far.
Yankees best catching prospect from trade is in A ball. Flores is a dh that the pirates wish can play C but would be ecstatic if he can play 1b.
Pretty sure Garcia was top 5 or 10 in Boston system
MLB had him listed as 6th best in Boston system
If top 10 excites you then sure. Personally I wouldn’t trade 1 KG or SH for 10 top 10s.
I like the trade. Oviedo very expendable. Kind of upside gamble small markets need to make. Garcia is like Canario Suwinski. Lower strike outs he is a all star. High strike outs he’s Canario Suwinski. So far he has been awful. Now too hurt to play. And even if healthy and awesome there’s no spot for him unless someone good gets hurt.
He should have been sent down,but realistically,he thought that he had made the team with a great Spring Training.
Billy Cook beat him out!
If he is hurt then that in combination with him being bummed out probably caused the very bad start.
Just think of Password as Papa Bear and realize that they can both get out of the bottom.
Password has potential to be a good power hitter and that is what the Pirates need.
Dude he was 6th last year in a list that included Mayer, Campbell and Anthony. So yeah I’m excited about that trade
Based on performance he made the team out of spring training. But in terms of best for his development he needed to go to AAA. It’s better for him to get those ABs than playing every 4th or 5th day.
Mlb had Bart Davis Gonzales ranked ahead of cruzas well. Solometo ahead of Bubba.
Whatever your definition is. When I hear best prospects I don’t think Garcia. I think Griffin Anthony. Stretch it out I think Bubba. Then Hernandez. Heck will even give you Florentino. But if you think Garcia is with them that’s fine. I can’t believe people are calling for him instead of Valdez. Valdez is doing fantastic.
He can be Barry bonds but if he plays as much as Cook it won’t really matter.
Shelton used to give the hottest player a day off, according to his reasoning, that player was scheduled in advance
Then the next game, the hottest player would go into a slump. I saw it many times when he was manager
Seems his replacement is following the same pattern
By the way, Cruz struck out 3 times in today’s game. If anyone should get a day off; it should be him
And he looked sick in each at bat.
I kind of look at him as a microcosm of the team in general. Sometimes he looks great. Sometimes he looks awful. I just think that’s the kind of year it’s going to be. Somewhere around 81-83 wins. Will waste a lot of good pitching performances
That’s why managing is going to be so important here. Can’t afford to give games away.
Shelton was the master of mystery days off. I’d hope Kelly is smarter
I disagree about Mangum btw. The kid should be out there defensively in close games. As AI said, I have been reading that Garcia is struggling at Indy. Why bring him up? To ride pine? To struggle here?
Someone said a while back that they’re stuck with the catchers they have. That’s about the truth of it.
Dotel sure looks like another good young arm. Yeah, Caminero tagged him but he has heat
Flores is a dud – suspect he had his best year last year and will disappear into obscurity. Endy off to slow start at Indy. Davis and Bart have the trust of the pitchers so they should stay. Password also off to a slow start so Mangum and Cook are fine for now – both making themselves useful. The Bucs look like a team for the first time in years, so why mess with it?
No o’hearn or lowe in lineup. Im guessing donny Shelton think they are tired after yesterday. One word for this clown,JAGOFF. Looks like he doesn’t want to win. He’s a pain the neck to watch managing the team. As much as a pain as the gas prices are, thanks to agent orange taco.
He gave them both the same day off a couple of weeks ago when Skenes was pitching. Makes no sense.
Pan..what’s even worse, the pirates are off tomorrow. So kellys moves are very troubling
Lowe hasn’t exactly been hitting well against lefties and the starter for TB was a lefty
I can’t explain why O’Hearn didn’t start but his replacement dropped down a bunt base hit that helped the team score 3 runs in the 6th inning
That being Cook. O’Hearn doesn’t have the speed to beat out a bunt
O’Hearn is hitting well over 300 with plenty of home runs.
Were not talking Matty Alou here.
Long season. Lowe struggles vs LHP.
Jg-Have you changed your name again to protect the innocent Buuba?
Yea mendoza I had no choice but to change. As I stated before the trade rumors powers to be decided that I must of offered a troll. So without any notice I was terminated or as Taco says fired. This wasn’t the first time. So im going to be more polite and not open my big mouth, even it will be hard for me to do.
Anyways is Joe my first name. Gio three letters of last.
See below young man.
Hey Bob. Get rid of cherrington and Kelly before you have a nervous breakdown.
You finally open your wallet and these two idiots are flushing the money down the 🚻. Do yourself a favor and make an honest search for a experienced manager. And not give the first unqualified applicant the job. Do a diligent search. We pirate fans deserve better than to watch pirate managerial reruns of The Shelton/Kelly comedy hour.
Good experience manager can get a job with a team that has $. Would have no interest in Pittsburgh unless overpaid. Spend $ on manager then you have to give up $ that could go to players so bye bye Soto.
Lowe O Hearn signing. Getting KG extended. SH looking awesome. Cherington probably gets 5 year extension.
No extension for Cherington.Nutting did that with BOTH Huntington and Hurdle and it was a mistake.
Cherington has had one good year out of seven and DJ was told last year by Nutting that he was going to fire Cherington and he did have to fire Shelton because Cherington did not want to do so.
This year has just started.They have gone south in previous years and Kelly is no Earl Weaver.
And I disagree with you.The Pirates have good young players thanks to your guy Cherington.Whether they will be developed or not remains the question.An extra few $M a year is not something that should dissuade Nutting from hiring a good veteran manager who is out of a job.Someone who knows how to handle his relief pitchers especially if given good ones down the line.
It is not Kelly’s fault that there is no depth in AAA.
Kelly lost the game yesterday and depleted his pitching staff.But at least he may have learned from his mistake and handled it properly today.
I think Kelly is an upgrade over Shelton, to be sure. Here’s one big thing I’ve noticed: no one is dogging it. No one is admiring fly balls. No one is jogging out infield grounders. (Ok. Bart did admire a double today off the center field wall but still got 2)
To me, this alone is an upgrade.
But he’s learning on the go here
You say they would be 15-7 and that sounds about right. His bullpen choices are sometimes astounding. His substitutions are ridiculous at times. I get that he wants to go with his guy cmon
Let me say this: it’s a lot more enjoyable to watch this team. Their starting pitching is one of the best in MLB—-and I’m glad Kelly has relaxed the leash a bit. They have some pop in their batting order—even Ozuna is showing signs of life.
I don’t know what they do about catcher but really, if that’s the only hole in the order they’ll be fine.
Cruz has recently committed base running blunders and from not paying attention to the action on the field
But for some reason he gets away with it. He did this twice in last night’s game and during the same inning
Yeah, I’m not sure he’s very “baseball bright”. He just reminds me of a guy whose knowledge of the game, from mechanics to techniques, just isn’t in his thinking. He’s got the God given talent. I just don’t think he’s that cerebral. That’s not meant as an insult.
Check out the Central Division standings.
This may very well be a year long dogfight.
Really not much to manage. When a starting pitcher shows signs of tiring they are pulled. Your fantasy veteran manager wouldn’t be hired if he didn’t follow this order. Tens of millions of dollars are at stake. Relievers are chosen on availability and matchup. If your veteran manager went with gut instead of data he wouldn’t be hired. This is pretty much with any team. Veteran managers still get hired. They just fall in line more than they would in the past. Kelly was a old school type player. Played for old veteran manager. Had old veteran manager mentor him last year. He would very much like to be a manager so he walks the line.
How about this with Kelly. Players can actually bunt with him!
three different players laid down bunts for hits yesterday. Mangum, Cook and Griffin
It was amazing!
I was thinking that TheMan3 fell out of his chair numerous times in seeing this yesterday
The line may be determined by the GM but they can be fired too.
Gut decisions take into account the human inter action which computer bots do not.
The Phillies had a GM who was a complete and utter failure but was hired because he graduated from an Ivy League school.
They have a HOF GM now who mixes statistics in with the human experience.
Which one would you hire?
Washed-It brought a smile to Paul’s face.
It brought a smile to mine too.
The two that I saw were both quite impressive.You and I could have beat them out in our younger days.
If that was Kelly’s doing then I congratulate him.It is something that can be very valuable.
I just wonder why no one taught JiWan Bae to do that on a regular basis.
There’s no gut decision when protecting pitchers. Pitchers are valuable. Managers are not.
You are a team of one when you think that managers are not valuable.
There is a reason why some of them make the big bucks.
Easy automatic decision for Milwaukee to let that overpaid bum walk away. Replaced him cheaply with someone better. I would guess pirates end up better than the reds. But if they don’t it won’t be because of reds expensive manager. If we do it might be because of spending $ on a manager we spent it on Soto.
Cubs Yankees Dodgers can pay 10 managers. Doesn’t matter.
When you only have 100 million I want 100 million spent on players. Not 90 million because we gotta pay a manager. Now if Kelly makes playoffs 2 years on row you gotta extend him. But if he wins to championships and wants 15 million a year it’s time to say bye and see what Stallings or someone can do.
I posted last year that when they fired Shelton and immediately gave the job to his twin that it was a bad move. Then they do the unthinkable and just hand him the job.Makes you want to bang your head off a wall over and over.
Is that you, baseball trade conspiracies?
Yes it is buddy. I guess someone didn’t like my comment on being s troll. I got booted by trade rumors. I wasn’t going to come back. But I can’t resist. I’ve always been outspoken and it gets me in trouble.
At least trade rumors can do is let you know you were banned and the reason. You find out when you post and your post keeps disappearing.
I thought so!See above.Welcome back young man.You are a character and a half!
This site is sort of like the old game show “What’s My Line” where we have to guess if someone has been banished!
The color orange was the proof for me!
Lol. Glad to be back YOUNG MAN lol if 70 is young then ok
Anyone younger than me is a young man!
At least you have a good reason for all of the aliases.
Washed up old timer keeps on forgetting his code name!
I still call him Tired Old Dude as that is my favorite name for him.
Hey I wrote it down this time. I’ve been good for months
And we both share memories of guys like Honus Wagner and the Traynor brothers
Move over Sherlock and Batman. We got the world’s greatest detectives right here.
I’m no spring chicken either, I am 70
Pie used to come to some of our high school games to scout players from the other teams.
We were a class B team playing class AAA teams.
Needless to say we did not win many games.
And I think that you mean the Waner brothers.
I just want to know what happens when AI gets po’ed at you and takes you over?
Yeah. Megan Traynor. And her brothers. It’s all about “that base”
Dear God am I getting old. Mixing Big Poison, Little Poison, and Pie
I remember Pie advertising for Keystone Heating during Studio Wrestling on Channel 11
Who can,Ameri can!
And how about that Bruno Sammartino!
I actually went to one of the wrestling shows at Chanel 11. There was ringside Rosie. Chilly Billy and Pie. There were about 10 matches. I went to a lot of wrestling shows at the arena. But these matches at the studio were better because yiu were closer to the ring. And of course the cutout cardboard people. I bet at the most there were 50 people. It was a great experience.
Kelly has been good as just about any manager
But not the very good ones.
The Pirates can no longer get away with a mediocre at best manager.They do not win a lot of games but they can sure lose a lot of games.
Yeah, that’s the issue here. The manager has to be a guy whose strategy steals a couple wins with a team like this. Not lose them.
You hit the nail on the head. Old timer
I always comment on the number of strikeouts this team accumulates during a game
Well, they are currently tied with the Rockies for the most in the league with 211
Another 9 today and 14 in last night’s game
I am thrilled that they are scoring more runs this season but they absolutely must cut down on the number of strikeouts if they want to continue winning
You are right about the strikeouts. But I believe they are up everywhere. Don’t understand the rise of hitters striking out more. Must be a new approach by batting instructors. Just like teams falling in love with analytics. Everything is war, ops and other analytics.
Someone once posted on here that RBIs and batting average doesn’t mean anything anymore. Or pitchers wins. I believe this is the reason baseball is falling fast. Look at the insane extra inning rule,runner on second. Just as stupid as college football overtime rule. Get the ball on the 20 yard line. How many times m es has a score been 10-10. Then after overtime the score is 37-36 or high scores. Insane rule changes like these are ruining sports.
Strike outs are up because pitching is drastically better. Pretty much main by far #1 reason. Coaches hate strike outs. They want hitters to work up pitchers pitch counts. Walk. Put ball in play. Make productive outs.
Good teams haven’t used war ops for 15 20 years. Those are fan stats. Those other stats are completely useless. Was Skenes bad last year? He didn’t have very many wins!
Old time stats still are useful,but they do not tell the whole picture like they were thought to do years ago.
They are simpler and for a snapshot review are worth the time to see them.Many though are based on the results of others on the team so they are not necessarily useful to predict future performance.
Speaking of walks; they only drew 1 in today’s game
Lefty Sunday lineup with Bart Cook Yorke Gonzales Mangum. Why would you ever walk any of those guys if you didn’t have to. Hard to walk Cruz when he is off swinging at everything. Same with the 19 year old.
How about not swinging at every single pitch?
They don’t draw walks because they can’t refrain from swinging at every pitch no matter where it’s thrown
Can’t draw walks because they don’t have any power. No one is scared of them. Not good hitters either. They are just average guys.
I think that a good team will find ways to shut them down. I guess that’s the missing element here although perhaps Ozuna is coming alive
A good pitcher will handle Cruz. He’s made strides this year but he still has at bats that are disturbing. Add in the catcher and 3rd base hitters, add in Griffin who’s just cutting his teeth..yeah, they’re improved but I’m not sure there’s a lot of fear among pitchers
They might not have any players that can hit for power but these guys swing at pitches nowhere near the plate. I often wonder if they even know the pitchers being thrown
Davis is a perfect example. He catches arguably the best pitcher in baseball yet he still swings at sweepers and out of the zone sliders
Can he even discern what pitches are being thrown when the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand?
Paul- The answer to your last question is no.
J-This started occurring when the three “true” outcome fad started.
The pitchers supposedly had control over this.
If they did have total control they would be like Ron Neccai and strike out every batter in the game.
The problem is that these hitters are not taught to waste pitches by fouling them off.If they get fooled they just walk to the dugout every time.I will say though that the pitchers are much better today as the new photo of the ball placement tells you that these pitches often just touch the strike zone.They are basically unhittable.
Jocko Conlan once told someone,it’s not a ball,it’s not a strike,it’s what I call it is.
That is no longer true.
But I truly believe that the batters are taught to drive the ball and many to upper cut it and they give up way too easily at extending the at bat to at least tire the pitcher.They are not taught to be defensive hitters with two strikes.At that is a real problem with the coaching and management staffs on these ML teams.
Yes mendoza and a lot of these so called hitting instructors ruined a lot of young hitters. Case in point, jack suwinsky. Promising young power hitter. Hit 26 homeruns and then,for whatever reason, changed his approach. Was never the same.
What gets me is that most of these instructors stunk in the majors.
AI is right, of course. The great majority of today’s pitchers would have dominated 20 years ago. Everyone and their grandmother is throwing 95 on the gun.
And Mendoza is on it here.
Pitchers have evolved into mixing pitches. Sweepers, cutters, change ups, and varieties in between. I’m not sure hitters have caught up to this evolution.
You mention Suwinski. Valid example. Let’s add Cruz and Davis. Hayes before them. Young players who can’t pick up spin, are clueless about strike zones and are unaware of both what umpires are calling and pitcher situational strategies. Davis astounds me. He’s a catcher but doesn’t know the strike zone and often looks shocked about what pitch was thrown
Add the revolving door of players who’ve come and gone here
Mechanical issues are one thing but there’s a mental approach that is just ignored, it would appear
“AI is right, of course.”
Washed feels bad for muting me and really buttering me up.
Used to be Nolan Ryan. Now 4 out of the 5 starters are Nolan Ryan.
Used to be just Rob Dibble Then Chapman. Now the entire bullpen but 1 guy is them.
Used to be just the Mariano Rivera slider now every single reliever has that slider.
Starters don’t have to save any pitches for the 3rd 4th 5th time threw the lineup. They don’t get tired so you never face a worn down pitcher. Relievers go 1 inning so you always face you weakest platoon. Analytics departments know your weaknesses to every pitch and the exact part of the zone to attack you.
It’s impressive they don’t strike out even more frankly.
I don’t feel badly at all. In fact, you should be honored that I un-muted you. I mean, Bright Eyes and Nutting’s nephew who blames everything on attendance are permanently in my outhouse
No need to butter you up. I’ve said numerous times that I appreciate your insights especially about up and coming players. But when you get a little too personal or agitated, it’s a nice time to take a break. That’s all
Ryan was a .500 pitcher. I get that people want to deify him now. Great. But he often had no control or got rocked by throwing his heat dead red
Good pitcher, sure. All timer? Nope
I get your point here and it reiterates my thinking. Hitting coaches aren’t spending time on building well rounded hitters. Pitchers are ahead of them in terms of variety of things they’ll throw
Ryan twice walked over 200 batters in a single season
What AI does not mention though is the shelf life of many of these pitchers is shorter than a gnat’s.
There are no more Early Wynns out there.
And the hitting coaches are teaching too much on hitting home runs and uppercutting than to make solid contact and study the pitchers the way that they study the hitters.Also, pick up the spin as soon as it leaves the hand and foul off clear third strikes if they are fooled.
I had to snap you back to your senses. You got a bit crazy suggesting teams were pitching around Suwinski. I tried being nice about a few attempts but you just kept doubling down. No biggie sometimes a break is needed in a relationship lol
Will disagree there. Used to be no such thing as tj surgery so you got hurt you were finished. Now having 2 of them is common. Lot of mid late 30s guys around and doing great.
I meant to mention that.
Yes,the medical advancement has occurred about the same time that the arm injuries started mounting up.
Yes,they can stitch them together and they only lose 1 and 1/2 years of their prime pitching career.
But are they the same afterwards?Sometimes,but sometimes not.
I can assure you that the pitchers now lose way more time than the pitchers in the 1960’s through the 1980’s.And the starters lasted a lot more than 4 or 5 innings.
The pitchers had to get much better because the hitters became bigger and stronger.It is amazing what they can do with the baseball without putting foreign substances on it.But I think that they take advantage of the need for power hitting home runs to the batter’s disadvantage and there is no response by the management and coaching staff.
Back in the day pitchers would keep a little extra to use when the situation demanded it.Now the pitchers throw full blast every pitch.
Look at what happened to Jones.You were the poster who correctly pointed out that with his stature he would be better off relieving because his body will not be able to withstand starting every fourth day.
It may not matter within a few years when in essence there will be two or three inning designated starters for every game.Just look at the big drop offs the second and/or third time through the order.
Watching this Buccos team is so much fun right now. Yes, there are no-brainer moments by young players trying to make their way in the game, but on the whole they are pulling through like Wilbur Dotel did today.
Miserable ole b’stards here on MLBTR need lighten up and enjoy the games.
this miserable ole b’stard does enjoy the games but after watching this team since 1966,I feel that I am entitled to criticize their performances
Paul- I always enjoy it when someone tells me what I need to do.
I just said the same thing, without calling anyone a miserable old b’stard. Now get off my lawn
Imagine if they got a 3b and or a catcher! I can live with the catchers so $ saved is fine. Wasn’t really a ideal 3b available. But if there was this team would really be something.
Always trade deadline though but prices are usually high.
I try to talk some sense into these les miserables like no we don’t want to give up our 3rd highest draft pick and 100 million dollars to sign Santander. No we don’t want to trade Seth Hernandez for a old as 2b. No we don’t want to dfa Cruz.
Actually looks like a playoff team. All comes down to health. They had a tuff schedule so far. Had some bad luck. Some bad relievers.
Think like a gm though. If they called Dotel up sooner they only have him for 6 years. Now it’s 7. Now they can call up any prospect who can’t contend for ROY. And any that could will be called up in August to get draft pick next year or in June if you don’t care about draft pick and if they really need you they won’t. Have trade deadline.
It’s a war not a battle. They aren’t trying for a 1 or 2 or 3 year window. They want to contend for next 10 years. Could realistically do it for 8. Could forever technically but unlikely. Skenes leaving is no big deal. They could trade him for the next wave of talent. Pirates draft what 5th this year. That player won’t be a free agent for 9 or 10 years. Hernandez won’t be for 8. KG here for 9. Bubba Ashcraft have 6 years left. Florentino Valdez Garcia Sanford can all be impact players. Plenty of others as well. Everyone on current team should be traded or qualify offer draft pick. You just keep bringing in new young talent.
This is the AI we want to read.
And no, no butter is being applied
With Seth on the horizon—a kid you talked about even before he was drafted—I agree about Skenes
But this is another five year plan. They messed up the last one when they misidentified their future stars or those kids—-like Hayes—were busts
AI wants to have continuous five year plans but in all practicality the windows last only 3-5 years for most small market teams because the GM’s are imperfect as we have seen for six very very long years.
I give AI credit for being consistent as this has been his song for as long as he has been here but that is a perfect world scenario.The Brewers may come closest to meeting that but how many NL championships have they won in the last 43 years?
And even then their only championship was an AL one.
Washed- Please don’t be wooed by AI.
It is now just a bot talking.
Do you really think that any MLB team is not going to miss the best pitcher in baseball,and the only sane and forceful voice in the clubhouse?
The first player to actually give this whole team including ownership and management gravitas and a butt kicking.
The objects of admiration and remuneration in the past have been Hayes and Cruz and Reynolds and McCutcheon.
Why do you think that it needs a 24 year old no matter how successful to kick all of them in the butt to finally get a winner.
Do you think that Kelly and Cherington and Nutting are suddenly going to change their docile personalities without someone like that in the room?
I understand that they still could get a treasure trove even with one year left for him.
But what if they are competing for a championship then?
In 5 years Skenes will either be extended which isn’t looking good or if qualifying offer is still a thing we get a late 1st round pick which can be a good player Barco Jones Sanford for example. Or they do like the Brewers did and trade him for multiple top 100 prospects. So those players keep the wave of talent flowing.
You get draft picks every year. Even a extra one as small market. Pirates international signings have drastically improved.
5 years will mean Ashcraft Bubba are in final year so again qualifying offer pick if you keep them or trade for multiple top 100.
Cruz same thing QO draft pick or prospects from trade. Keller maybe same thing but he likes it here and might take extension and with his age then and velocity drop he is just your veteran 5th starter. But dumping his salary and prospect return might be best. Reynolds trade. But even if you keep them their contracts will expire so that’s $ to extend Hernandez or sign another Ozuna O Hearn.
Speaking of Hernandez him and Griffin are key. You hope to have 1 building block to build around. Here we have 2 and will be here for more than 5 years. Lots of talent on farm so maybe a Florentino can be another building block but at the very least you have some above average and good players coming. Clock hasn’t even started on them yet. 5th pick this year should be another impact prospect instant top 100 probably top 50.
You keep “reloading” the team just like they rebuilt the team. The rebuild is because Huntington left the cupboard pretty thin. Mlb team wasn’t good. You don’t let it get that bad. And if you have a bad year because of injuries or whatever you have a fire sale and have a mini rebuild. That’s what Rays Guardians did. But try to be Milwaukee and just keep contending.
Tired just wants to be around 500 playing solid baseball. I just want to compete for playoffs every year making it majority of years. So I think being Milwaukee is awesome. If you want to be in world series every year become a Dodger fan. Might be too late though because a team like Pittsburgh can knock them out early.
There’s no window needed. No long rebuild needed.
Who’s more valuable and will get more in trade return?
Skenes or Musgrove?
Ashcraft or Taillon?
Bubba or Brubaker?
Horwitz or Bell?
Hopefully Lowe doesn’t need traded but more valuable than Frazier not even close. Also I think he is qualifying offer worthy so another draft pick? He might just accept it though. It’s not a certain decision.
O Hearn won’t be traded unless losing record and again could earn them a draft pick. If it’s still thing. Who knows what the cba will change. But have to go with what it is currently.
KG or Newman
Don’t think they will do better than Hayes but combined Yorke Gonzales Triolo can match his return.
Cruz if he keeps it up and no reason to doubt him yet will be more valuable than Marte. Reynolds more valuable than Polanco Gamble or at worst the same nothing.
Davis Bart same as Stallings.
I can’t remember who was in the bullpen when Cherington took over. Montgomery can be extremely valuable though. If Ramirez Lawrence get some control they will have some value. Santana Soto are rentals so unless 2026 is a lost season no return for them. Mattson has some value.
Farm system is going to plummet in mid season rankings. Bubba no longer a prospect and KG will join him. Baseball America will be hard on them as they should. They think like I do. Would you trade KG for the pirates 10th to 30th prospects? That’s 20 for 1 trade. Easy no for me. But other sites might or would. They value the entire system and depth and versatility highly. Pirates might not fall as hard with them but still hard. Their depth versatility is fine but not that great. And they also value nearness to majors. Incredibly stupid imo. Why would I penalize them because Hernandez is young? Keller Mlod Skenes Bubba Ashcraft Jones? Umm don’t need Hernandez now. If he was ready they would probably manipulate his service time to get an extra year of him so doesn’t matter how close to mlb he is.
But yeah. Being Milwaukee is fine and no reason they can’t be. Can be better than Milwaukee. Look at their roster. Or watch them this week or next. So many 5 foot 6 5 foot 8 no power runts. They actually target that. It’s a lil advantage because no one else values that player as highly. Contact has a floor. Also has a ceiling. They are limiting how good they can be. Cherington takes risk. Potentially can get much much better players.
Many good points but I think you skip from Huntington to where we are now while not addressing the failed rebuild we just lived through
I’ll go back to your discussion of the TB blueprint here. Clearly, this is what Huntington was doing and then inexplicably blew it up. Cherington returned to that blueprint but while the plan was nice, the players didn’t live up to the billing
I’m not sure about this rebuild, to tell you the truth. I agree that Seth will be a big gun if he can stay healthy. I like the potential of Griffin. But what is there in terms of position players behind him? Valdez? Termarr? Florentino? Brannigan?
You would like to be Milwaukee but to me, they’re happily doing all I could hope for. What appears to me to be an 82 win team. I’ll take it
You have been saying this for the six years that you have been on this site.
You are quite consistent.
You are quite thoughtful and knowledgeable on this subject,clearly more so than the rest of us.
But you fall in love with the young players and underestimate how bad the development system has been for the Pirates’ position players.
Theoretically,you are correct.And the Pirates team and system were a lot worse than anyone realized except maybe Nutting when he fired Huntington and Hurdle.
This team has potential.You said over 76 games but never committed to a number.I said 84 which would make several of us happy.But the fundamentals of this team still are lacking,and management,although better,is still not first rate.
There was a reason why I said check the standings of the Central division.But look at everybody else too.It is basically the Dodgers then one or two teams and everybody else except the bottom two or three teams.
I hope that your Utopian concept comes true for the future Pirates teams but your prognostication from five years ago is only now bearing fruit.I think that I know you well enough when you say you want the best for Pirate fans and you are sincere about that,especially for the long time ones.But emotionally involvement sometimes gets in the way of reality.
But my experience with The Process with the Philadelphia 76’ers proves that the best laid plans of mice and men go astray.
Rebuild took longer than I thought. Because Cherington development fix took longer than I thought.
I never thought Gonzales would be a hall of famer but I thought he would be average to above average. Hasn’t happened.
Same with Davis but I thought he would hit some home runs. Guy excelled dominated every level of baseball except MLB. No one predicted he would be this awful. My bar for him was low. I been the entire time it’s all about getting Bubba. But he hasn’t got over that bar. Makes you want to go to the bar.
Peguero didn’t work. That’s ok. They all don’t work out. You can miss on some. But that’s 3 early misses.
Malone injury after injury. That’s 4. Out of 4 you pretty much gotta hit on one of them to have a chance. Can’t go 0 for 4.
Contreras. I don’t think until this day anyone knows what happened to his ability to pitch.
And I couldn’t know in 2019 2020 what pick Cherington would have and who would be in that class. His 2 biggest picks Bubba TJ both high-school players. Unless you are Konnor Griffin hs players take longer to develop than college players. And Konnor isn’t developed yet. Triolo wasn’t good and then hurt so they need Konnor to play SS ready or not.
Shelton. He stunk. Managers don’t matter except when they don’t know to set up double play in extra innings. Keep using Bednar Holderman to close out games when they have nothing. And completely lose the respect of the team and they stop playing for you.
2023 how are you going to overcome losing 3 starting pitchers Cruz Choi for season?
2024 they were playoff bound at trade deadline. Deadline was a flop and rightfully so. Prices were insane and not that great of players available.
2025 team quit on Shelton before season even started. They weren’t good enough anyways. Cruz Reynolds were mediocre at best. No free agents to sign. No trades to make.
Really it’s a fluke they are good now. Lotto luck to get Skenes. Took Angels passing on the 2 best players in the draft to fall to Pirates. Pirates wanted Polanco but Mets overpaid for him so we had to go Lowe plan B. This team without Lowe Montgomery Mangum I dunno. Not as good imo. Not even close.
Oh yeah Jones got hurt. Things like that will happen. Like you said I expected it to happen.
But yeah. Cherington needed to be great. And he wasn’t. Still isn’t. It’s fluke luck we are s as good as we are. Thank you lottery and Angels. And for 2026 the Mets.
But we got here. You can keep living in the past or enjoy the present and the future.
But one last recap of past. Despite the drafts having weak classes. Despite the players we did get disappointing. Despite few to none of the trades working out. 2023 would have been a fun year with better luck. 2024 would have been fun even into September if they didn’t have Shelton or Bednar Holderman were good. And de la Cruz or whatever…I wasn’t expecting much but thought he would hit some hrs. Terrible. We gave up nothing for him. I thought it was a good effort better than what we had. But he wasn’t.
I’m happy it didn’t work out. KG SH are that good. Rebuild was A+ perfect. Skenes KG SH incredible. 3 hall of famers 3 years in a row. Everyone please thank the Angels not just today but everyday until KG SH retire or you are no longer walking the earth.
You do not have to be so harsh on your boy Cherington.
Compare his drafting to Huntington and what do you get?
Whether you realize it or not Gonzalez and Henry are solid big league players.Gonzalez is a solid clutch hitter,hustles,and can play several different positions decently.Henry has developed into a fine catcher and if he gets to 225 with ten home runs a year will be a real plus.
Malone was highly rated but became certainly injury prone and Cherington was planning for three or four years down the road.
Yes lotto luck to get the best pitcher in baseball but how unlucky were they during the years 2013-2015 when they had the second best record in baseball but the team in their division had the best and for each of the three years was better.Then the Pirates drew the best pitcher in baseball in both 2014 and 2015.
Cherington made his own luck with making theses draft choices.
The fact of the matter is that they were a very flawed team for all of the years that you mentioned.They were not going anywhere.
As much as anything I think that it has been unfair to Griffin to give him this much hype.It puts way too much pressure on him.The guy has as much physical ability as anyone who I have recently seen although I am concerned about his long swing as he is very tall.But wow he is fast.
God bless you but I think it a little too soon to predict the HOF for all three.Prosects are suspects until they prove themselves in the ML’s.
Guy taken #7 needs to be better than just a average player.
Guy taken #1 has to be better than a arm only sold glove.
Picks were good but didn’t work out. Why rebuild took so long.
I don’t disagree but they were not absolute failures either and as you pointed out saving money on Henry got them Bubba.
That may not be genius but it is very shrewd and give Cherington credit for that.
Drafting is what he is best at.
Drafting is what he does least worst
Sometimes he is your man,and sometimes he is not.
I give him credit for his strengths and point out his deficiencies.
It’s not a strength. He has had higher draft picks and more $ than any other team. There’s worst teams Angels Rockies Nationals. But pretty much with his picks you couldn’t really fail other than those 3 teams.
speaking of third baseman, we have just one homer from ours thus far this season
Nick Yorke and only one from our catchers, Joey Bart
Both positions historically are power hitters
Brannigan could be nothing. Utility player. TJ could just be a Yorke. Or they can be all stars and Florentino can bust.
Key is there are names. And a lot of them. It’s a numbers game. Someone will be useful. Probably good. Maybe 2. But you have the numbers. Have the odds.
I like Florentino Valdez odds the best. Got 2 guys from 2 reds trades. I like Stanford floor a lot.
How about 2026 draft picks? Even 2027? Reynolds Cruz KG Horwitz aren’t free agents yet. No dire need to replace them yet.
I am so so so thankful the 2020 2021 2022 draft classes were weak. And that Cherington didn’t instantly fix the international signing and development. Thankful he didn’t land many trades.
Can you imagine how bad this team would be without Skenes KG SH? They needed to be bad so we could have this present and future.
And they haven’t been bad. April 2023 they had like the best record in league. You can’t overcome that many injuries. 2024 they were above 500 buying at trade deadline.
It’s not so much it failed but it wasn’t possible or likely to be fast. They had mostly garbage to trade. Drafts stunk. Not the picks necessary just the draft class.
All worked out in the end.
Thank the Angels. They should have taken KG SH
Let me say it again: starting pitching in the era of 5 inning starts at best, is extremely overrated. Someone is going to make a ton of money managing a team that has partition pitching. Starters. Middle relievers who should/could be starters. Closers
The Pirates have a guy like that somewhat in Mlodzinski. You need 3 or 4. Guys who can go
3 innings. Specialists.
AI-Paredes is hitting 208.Bohm is hitting 154.Mike Schmidt is not available.
The problem is what to do with Triolo when he comes back.
Yorke is much better than you give him credit for,not just a guy.
I actually am starting to like Cook.I think that he hustles like Gonzalez and is fast and a good athlete.Cherington gave him a first baseman’s mitt and told him I know that you have never played there before but you are a good athlete.He seems happy to just be in the ML’s.
One of Shelton’s strengths and I think Kelly’s too is that they get the bench guys playing time to keep them sharp.Cherington has finally got them some decent ones to use.
I’m not sure who goes to AAA.
it probably depends on how many options part time players have remaining
I would prefer Yorke be in the lineup every day but then what happens to Gonzalez?
And I also have admiration for how Cook hustles. His bunt for a base hit yesterday was a thing of beauty
You know how I feel about playing small ball
It’s something that we haven’t seen on this team in years
We haven’t seen much of anything on this team in years.
Really good teams can play several different variations of play.
Gonzalez could still play second against lefthanders.
I think that Yorke only gets better with playing time.
Triolo is the best fielder but probably the worst hitter.He also was sent to AAA last year when he was not hitting.
One of these guys could be a trade candidate at the trade deadline for a good relief pitcher.
And when did the Pirates last have this type of problem?
246 .343 .351 .694
What there makes you think he is more than just a guy?
Nothing wrong with being slightly below average or average. He can easily become above average. Not going to get me exciting. I like the saying by the guy on mlb network. You win with aircraft carriers. But you need guys. Hard to have all stud lineup. Dodgers are close but even Boston both NY teams don’t. At 100 million you are going to have some guys. I just don’t care if they trade them for someone potentially better. Trade Yorke for Reliever and Triolo plays 3b I am fine with that.
Who cares what happens when Triolo comes back. Whoever is struggling between him Yorke cook Gonzales can be sent down and the other rot away on the bench or play all 3 in a rotation. Way they rest players playing time isn’t really a issue.
Yorke has never been given playing time and even now cannot be considered a regular.
He was a first round pick so someone thought that he was good.
Cherington made some good trades this winter but his track record is far below average.
Your definition of just a guy seems to be that of a decent regular player.And you recognize that every team needs them.
I have no problem trading anyone unless they are the stars or team leaders or good young players with control.
But I am still leery of Cherington and have said all along that they need someone else to share some of the load and making trades is one of them.
And that should not have had to be Nutting to fire Shelton when even casual observers on this baseball site knew that it was long overdue.
The someone who drafted Yorke in the first round also gave away Mookie Betts Quinn Priester Chris Sale Kyle Harrison for absolutely nothing. At least they turned Yorke into Priester. Fortunately they also gave us Password for Oviedo.
Boston took Yorke with 17th pick. Here is who was drafted at 18 19 20 21. Boston should not be seen as a beacon of light when it comes to player scouting.
baseball-reference.com/players/j/jarvibr01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/c/crowape01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/m/mitchga01.shtml
baseball-reference.com/players/w/walkejo02.shtml
When Nutting said to Cherington hey this Quinn Priester looks pretty good for Milwaukee and Nick Yorke looks like dog it. Cherington probably used same line “well he was good enough for Boston to take in the 1st round!” “You hired me because I won championship in Boston ” “What’s good for the Boston is good for the Pirate”
You are predicting Griffin and Hernandez for the HoF but cannot let Yorke get consistent ML at bats before saying that he is trash.
That is wrong on a number of counts.
Some of us are from Missouri,the show me state,and will believe it when we see it.
And not just over 20 games.
I already have the 2030 2031 2032 rotation and lineup set.
Count me in as an Ole b
Commenting way down here instead of where the actual conversation was taking place makes it obvious enough.
Lol.
My ‘MOB’ comment above was posted very much in jest, but I love the fact that each and every one went to great lengths to justify being a ‘MOB’!
I’m one too, but I have a really good feeling about this team.
I agree arky, and I didn’t take offense. But I just want a .500 team that hustles and is reasonably sound fundamentally. Anything beyond is icing on the cake. Despite the spending, I don’t expect the Pirates to contend for much beyond a WC berth. That’s fine with me
Reynolds has a .143 average against Woodruff with 11 strikeouts
Why in heaven would Kelly put him in the lineup for tonight’s game? He struck out looking in his first plate appearance
What happened to playing Yorke or Cook?
The former hasn’t played in the last 3 games
I just don’t understand Kelly’s logic
Are we missing Burrows?
Oviedo?
Still crying over Ortiz?
Falter?
Nicolas?
Still early but not good starts for these guys.
Brubaker has a real nice era but it’s fake. He’s been bad. 2.38 but it will skyrocket if he doesn’t start pitching much better.
Houston had Bolton starting for them. Not good and now hurt.
Soriano wants to contend for cy young and so far he looks like he could.
Ok. It’s April 20
You get to say “I told you so “
You win
Washed- Don’t cave that easily to him my man.
He will get an even bigger head than he has now.
Like watermelon head Barry?
more like the TACO man
The doctor Jesus
It was more of a early season update than a victory lap.
Burrows is looking pretty good. But if Montgomery keeps his control he is our closer after this year. Will make the trade livable with. Burrows has some issues as well. Was pitching a no hitter and after the hit he pitched from stretch and completely different guy. Can he make it through lineup 3 times give you 180 innings? Has a floor as reliever. Can be a starter. Have to see how it plays out.
Falter and Nicolas have options left and provide much better AAA depth that Harbin and Sanders.
You are happy now through one seventh of the season but older wiser heads will be happy with a similiar outcome through six sevenths of the season.
I have enjoyed all of the postings here, Mendoza. Like you and TheMan3, I enjoy the basics of the game being executed. Pressure on the defense!
So yes, I enjoyed the bunts, too
No worries about me softening on Dream. When he’s right, he’s right. I have no problem saying it. And he knew about Seth before anyone here. I’m not convinced Skenes leaving is ok. I’m not even convinced he will leave. And all the jockeying this front office did in the off season was mostly thanks to the kick in the pants he gave them
AI wonders if they’re not already a playoff team. Certainly they have the starting pitching to make the claim. But it’s not 1992. Starters go 5-6 innings. And this bullpen isn’t at that standard.
TheMan3 notes the lack of power coming from Cather and 3rd. And let me throw in that a defense of Reynolds and Cruz in LF and CF shouldn’t instill confidence. Playoffs? Maybe. Making noise? Still seems like a long shot
please stop calling me TheMan3, I prefer being addressed by my given name
Paul
Thank you
Will do! Apologies
I only allow a few special people to address me by my given name
You, Dream, Mendoza and Jgio
Well it’s not like losing Skenes isn’t going to hurt. But why worry about something we can’t control. But if he does leave it would be nice to get a nice trade return or at least a draft pick. It’s nice having a Hernandez in your system. I don’t think Skenes is going to be a 1 something era pitcher every year. Might not ever happen again. I can see the gap between Ashcraft and Skenes and Bubba and Skenes closing. Hernandez could be better than them all including Skenes. Won’t predict that because it’s crazy. But he’s better than all of them when they were his age. He doesn’t have to be better. Just good enough to start a playoff game and for us to like our chances with him pitching.
Washed-I have them at 84 wins and will stick with that.
I think that you would be happy with that total.
I do not think it good enough to make the playoffs,but they will be competitive for them.
We are used to them being less than mediocre.
Even their talent level this year is in rarified atmosphere,but not equal to the fine teams from 2013,2014,and 2015.
I think that we all know what it takes to compete at the highest level.The Pirates may be able to do it next year if management and coaches and players learn from their mistakes that are made this year.
And they will occur.
I have them over 73 and a half. Anything over that is just bonus and at 74 wins I will celebrate like they won the world series.
If no one important goes on 60 day they are contending or get a playoff spot 87 wins.
They sacrificed depth to get good enough to contend for playoffs. They went after some big names that only cost $ and failed to get them. As they should because 300 400 500 million teams out bid 100 million teams. So no Borrows in rotation. Subtract Mlod from Pennsylvania because no Burrows. Oviedo is stolen as long man replacement starter if someone gets hurt. Nicolas gone. Those were not only for depth but because they were too good to turn down. All had to do moves. But makes it harder to predict wins. If a starter went down I would rather have Burrows vs whoever we will use now. It would have been Burrows in rotation and Mlod would been next guy up. Or Oviedo. But Barco Harrington Kelly Dotel could get it done. But they ain’t Borrows.
But if injuries aren’t too crazy I think we are buying at trade deadline.
Although my always contend strategy why not buy and sell. 2027 2028 2029 2030 are just as important as 2026. Win wars. Not battles. You can lose some battles and still win the war.
Well I’m amazed at your win total. 73-74?
But I think it speaks to the idea that they are thin in areas. If one of the bats goes down, then what?
They’ve been fun to watch so far although as Mendoza said, they should have a much better record.
A 73-74 win season would be just a repeat of Cherington’s entire tenure as GM
I am not sure how every Pirate fan would agree with Dream regarding winning the war but also losing battles
I for one am not thrilled about having to wait until the war is won while losing battles
From not having a playoff team in over 10 years, the time should be now, period
Dream would have you forget this is Cherington’s second rebuild ahead. He adroitly names a number of kids who look to take the franchise to the promised land in a few years. But it’s as if we are hitting rewind here
No position player distinguished himself in Rebuild 1. Dream credits this to a couple years of drafts with little talent. I’d put it on the player development department again
We see Seth on the horizon to go with Bubba, Ashcraft and Barco. Perhaps others.
I’m thrilled about the upside of Valdez. I hope Griffin pans out, although we’ve only seen glimmers so far. I hope Florentino is a stud. Naming names. Crossing fingers. Maybe Rebuild 2 will yield better. But I’m betting against it
So i’ll come back to my tired old dogma : I am happy with a .500 team. I am happy then with this team. Not perfect. Far from it. But they’re entertaining. Most of them have bought into the idea that they have a chance. They even bunt.
I get it. If an O’Hearn goes down or even Cruz or Reynolds, they’re gonna be hard pressed for runs again. I just see them around .500 this season
What’s rebuild 2?
AI-You still miss the point.
They need to contend as soon as possible.
No one is looking down the road except you.
The future is guaranteed for no one,nor for teams.
And you should be ashamed thinking that they are possibly no better than 74 wins.You know this team as well as anyone else.To Cherington’s and Nutting’s credit they performed a paradigm shift.There will some explaining to do if they only win 74 games.
Washed- Remember there was no rebuild.
It was just a long continuous team nightmare in the immortal words of Gerald Ford.
Management has been less than mediocre.Hitting development has been non existent.How are we to believe that it has gotten any better?Fundamentals are lacking.
They have decent backups on the ML team but AAA is sparse.Small market teams do not have the luxury that the Dodgers have of having two of everything.
They may even make a playoff team but they will never really compete unless these weaknesses are eliminated and they become a team that works hard and learns from their mistakes.
I don’t know where this 74 wins is coming from. I think they could if healthy win mid 80s.
it’s coming from a comment you made on the 21st of April
Yeah, agree. To me, that’s the ceiling as is. For me, that’s fine. I’ll take the sudden surprising onslaughts of runs with games like last night. It’s what the team is going to do all season. That’s my ceiling. Nutting opened the checkbook this offseason. Happy for that. But let’s face it, they’re not going to grab guys like LA, NY or any of the big spenders. What we applaud for signings and additions likely don’t make a blip on the screens of fans of those types of teams
You’ve discussed the help coming from the farm. Let’s hope so. I like Griffin but he’s likely some ways away from being a difference maker at this level. To me at least, hoping for playoff runs and wins there is still a pipe dream. This is still an offense, defense and manager that’s going to waste a lot of good starts by its pitchers
Maybe if Skenes again bangs the drum for help—this time the higher priced variety—something will change in my perceptions. But again, a .500 team that generally hustles and gets the fundamentals down is all I can hope for
73 and a half was the gambling odds number. You can’t win half games although the NHL point system is good for tricking fans that their team is better than it is.
Washed has very reasonable goals for enjoyment.
I been on my A+ game of late so hear is some good material not many or no one talks about at least now so a lil refresher.
KG threw 95 96 and had a full scholarship to pitch for LSU. He was also a outfielder. Didn’t start playing some SS until senior year. Really his junior year because he was supposed to be in the Hernandez draft but he worked his tail off so he could come out a year early. So only 1 year of focusing only on SS and hitting only. You don’t often see a 19 year old and he was more raw than just about anyone. Mississippi isn’t a baseball hotbed and competition is weak. KG will be the first good high-school player from there ever or modern times at least.
Probably should thank the Mets for overpaying Polanco. Pirates wouldn’t be nearly as good without the Tampa guys. Big spenders waste a ton of $. They can afford. But as Milwaukee Cleveland etc prove you don’t have to. Have to though to win world series more often and make playoffs most years.
No Sisk if Falter is still here. I prefer Sisk. Callihan Moss are nice depth pieces. It’s a long season. Do we want to being desperately trading claiming John Nogowiski Kai Tom? Depth is good.
Falter Nicolas can be dfa anytime if you want them back. Hopefully someone better hits the wire. I haven’t been paying attention.
Disagree a bit here as Falter gave them solid starts. Would’ve been a better placeholder for Jones than Mlodzinski. And Barco is still not there yet.
Trading both he and Bednar for nothing made little sense then as it does now. But this came before Skenes chirping, of course. At the time it looked like yet another time to dump salaries and veterans in general.
(But the Hayes trade was genius)
Hayes has more homers than our shortstop
That’s fine. The Reds can have him
I don’t want him either, was just making a point about our lackluster offense
We are currently in a familiar position in the standings, last place. The central is probably the best division in baseball, equal talent to go around but if this manager doesn’t start making better moves during any game, this current position is where we will be over the course of the season
Our ss would have 2 hrs if he played all his games in Cincinnati. And he wasn’t on opening day roster so missed some games.
All he has to do is play defense. Gets to or near balls that none of the other options can.
With his speed it’s hard for him to hit into a rally killing double play. If he gets on 1st he can steal 2b or go 1st to third.
Hopefully he hits. He should. But for 19 with a week in AAA and a month or 2 pittstop at the other levels he’s doing pretty freaking good. Will be 20 soon so hopefully his age 20 year is better.
They need depth pitching instead of fielders.
They have depth in the field.
Not sure who Moss is.
Griffin has enough raw talent and had his head on straight such that he will develop.
He seems like he is starting to get accustomed to the ML’s.
But bringing him up quickly and throwing him into the fire too quickly can stunt that growth.
We will see if it does.
Nicolas has a 10 era and walked 28 percent of batters. So he will be available soon enough if he doesn’t do something if you want him back. Falter is hurt but when healthy or Royals need a spot he might be available as well.
Mossy is nothing. 1b depth. Just something along with Fisk for Falter who was truly nothing. You only like him because of his fake era. He’s not really good.
AI-Chase Shugart 1.17 era and 1.17 whip.
Pick one- him or Cam Sanders?
That era is going skyrocket. They’re both just guys so doesn’t matter what one.
Was 4.15 in similar very small amount of innings with Boston and 3.40 in reasonable amount of innings with the Pirates.
In some ways it is crashing downward.
So a lil fun. I amused myself on this one. I think this is the best work of my career.
Back story I can be a lil confident wise guy when I am really sure of something. Well all the red sox fans loved Vaughn Grissom and thought sale was finished. I gave Sox a F and Atlanta a A and commented 100 times cy young for quad A 2b. They hated me. Then again Kyle Harrison for 3 utility players. So right now Harrison #3 #2 starter just as I said. 2 guys Boston got back to minors or bench other hitting 100 something. Anyways their heights are 5 10. 5 8. 5 6.
They are still loving that trade defending it in denial. So I commented.
You gave Milwaukee Snow white and all you got in return was 3 dwarfs. Didn’t even get 7 just 3.
I amuse myself at least.
AI- I preferred you as Dream GM.
I will give $100,000 for Snow White as that was the price paid for Babe Ruth to fund the show No No Nanette.
You are a legend in your own mind,but sometimes you deserve the sobriquet.
And dwarfs are now called “little people”.
Midgets are called little people. Dwarfs are still dwarfs.
Hopefully Harrison starts Sunday and carves up the pirates lineup so I only watch 1 game instead of 2. Will be rooting for Milwaukee well unti Harrison is removed because being right about a trade is more important than a Pirates win. He’s coming off a injury though so shouldn’t go long if he makes the start.
AI-I stand corrected.
another 9 strikeouts performance in last night’s game, drawing 1 walk with no extra base hits
I am not even sure whether Kelly used a pinch hitter especially when they were down 4 runs
This is what I mean when I say they can’t have Kelly losing games for them in strategic moments. Or lineup determinations. Like giving Lowe a day off…after a day off. I mean, is he geriatric?
It’s not an 87 win team. It may not even be an 82 win team, as I figure. I’m happy they have improved their lineup but this isn’t the ‘27 Yanks
From what I read, Lowe was having lower back problems and Kelly wanted to give him an extra day of rest
But that doesn’t excuse Kelly from using Bart as a pinch hitter or Cook for that matter and what happened to small ball?
Gonzalez hits a single, Mangum could have tried to lay down a bunt, even to move Nick up a base.
Davis, for as good as a defensive catcher he is , he’s been a major disappointment in his offense
Just read the sane about Lowe. Apologies.
Yeah. The idea should be to pressure the defense. Bunts do just that. They were forgotten last night
And the catcher position here is really miserable at bat. I’ve given up on Davis and Bart continues to show that his ‘24 season here was an aberration
Lowe knee could be worrisome. Hopefully it heals or doesn’t hinder him.
Horwitz neck not serious it seems.
Speaking of knee Gary Sanchez former Yankee catcher playing 1b throws a fastball right at Kyle Harrison knee while running to cover 1b. And he falls on wrist. Actually stayed in game but next start only went 3 innings. Good chance even if fully healthy Sunday he is on a pitch count. Let’s hope because he is not a ace but really really good. 30 seconds video of play if interested. Even Milwaukee does pirates things.
m.youtube.com/shorts/uqmfKGfahYU
Lowe is not a good candidate for an extension because of his injury history.
He is a pretty good player though.
What is his injury history. I don’t even know. Doesn’t look like it is holding him back yet this year.
Lowe has a history of lower back problems, and has missed a few games this season because of this
you never have to apologize to me for anything
Griffin’s speed, he should be trying more often to bunt, too. This team has raw speed yet it’s not used often enough for their advantage
And I am not including stealing bases. A player must get on base first to attempt a steal
Any time KG should bunt they are playing him in incase he does. So therefore he should swing most the time. With his power he should never try to bunt for a hit. And he isn’t a lefty.
1st and 2nd no outs is the only time you should bunt if you have any power. Unless tie or 1 run game 2b no outs. Any other time you score more runs swinging.
his swinging results more often lately in misses and called third strikes
I am rooting for the kid but wonder if he even knows what pitches are being thrown to him when the ball leaves the pitcher’s hand
And don’t even get me started about our lackluster catcher’s offense
“ with his power “
Yeah he has power potential but so far he hasn’t shown any signs of power
Griffin bunted for a base hit against a righty just last weekend
Griffin is fast but I am impressed with how fast a big right handed batter like him gets out of the box.
There is nothing wrong for occasionally bunting for a base hit at least until his power develops.
I do not think it a given that he will ever be a good power hitter.
I was gonna say I regretted watching the overhyped draft here in town as the Steelers again wasted a first found pick but then I read the box score of the Pirates game
13 more K’s. It’s a Pirates tradition
Baseball is only sport I follow. Watching TV is a waste of life. Sports even more so. Used to do it. NBA just went downhill to me. Same with NFL but not like NBA. I could watch hockey.
Tried watching it. 1st pens game. They looked old and slow. Turned it off. Might watch the finals possibly maybe. Regular season meaningless with so many teams making playoffs. Same with NBA. NFL is about that way. With 162 reguular season games mlb better not add any more playoff teams. They will though as it’s their #1 or #2 goal. Good I will just watch post season only save a lot of time. Steelers won’t be worth watching until they get a QB.
Once he starts recognizing spin better he will barrel up the ball more often and many of these ground balls will be gap doubles and triples. Probably be a 30 hr a year guy.
His bat speed now is 75mph. That’s one of the main things that determines hrs. Like Adam Frazier is a 63 mph guy. Ohtani Cruz Stanton are like 77 78 79 guys. Every mph equals roughly 7 extra feet in distance. Just turning 20 with zero college and 1 year of pro ball he can get into the high 70s. But 75 is fine. Higher than 85 percent of mlb players.
I was particularly impressed ( sarcasm) with the way that Kelly developed his lineup in last night’s game
Knowing that this team has a propensity for strikeouts, why was Ozuna in the lineup?
What happened to playing small ball?
Again no pinch hitters, considering you’re down 5 runs
And my favorite, only 2 walks drawn, but when you strike out 10 times in less than 6 innings, you’re not going to refrain from swinging often
Agree with a great deal of this
In my case, I don’t know what happened.
Baseball, football, basketball especially…watching nightly was my interest
Then my kids got a little older. Coaching became my passion. And I became jaded about pro and now college sports with the amount of money involved.
I love the games, just not the people playing or announcing. I don’t watch nearly as much as I once did
But really, Dream, if you think about it everything that happens outside of family is a waste of life, isn’t it. Unless your job deals with bettering the lives of others, what did it matter?
But I digress
Agree about the Pens. But theirs was a weird season. Was supposed to be a rebuild year with young guys but they re-imagined things as they surprisingly were winning and made the playoffs. Now they’re out of gas. And the Steelers? Pathetic clown show. Had the chance to make a splash and trade up last night. Trade up! Get a stud player Instead they draft a work in progress
Cherington might as well be their GM.
Lil tv is ok. I mainly use it as background noise while I work or shop or whatever. Watch TV when I eat. Listen to it when I go to bed. But say gardening like Paul likes to do is more productive. Sun fresh air lil exercise saving $ on food and getting it fresh. Exercise fresh air. Or vacation or concert making lifetime memories. Like most tv shows I will forget what happened or a good chunk. A epic vacation or concert or love making session I don’t forget. It’s all just killing time until it’s your time but tv is bottom of list of ways to spend a life. And I watched a ton and still do but cut back or more importantly multi task. This is a time waster. Same with anything Facebook etc. Most people can’t travel make love exercise 24 hours a day every day. So yeah I try to multitasking all my waste of life things.
Again, I agree with all of this
You know, my parents always talked about how quickly life goes by. I don’t know if you realize it until you realize that you’ve seen more yesterdays than you ever will tomorrows.
I like Paul’s idea. That’s me, too
But the big thing after retirement is trying to find purpose in life. Not an easy thing
Wish I could find a nice remote gig online.
But everyone and their grandmother wants the same thing
not trading up in last night’s draft suggests to me that they are counting on Aaron Rodgers to be their QB this season
He was phenomenal in his prime but how much offense can you expect from a 43 year old man?
Like Cherington, the Steelers seem to settle with the status quo without having any foresight to the eventual outcome
I can’t remember a more sickening draft as a Steelers fan. And again, it’s here in Pittsburgh
The incompetence is mind boggling. Maybe it’s a Pittsburgh thing now
You have 12 picks. You’re not going to use them all. But you sit and twiddle your thumbs as studs who play positions you need go to other teams and then get caught sleeping as another team swoops in and takes the guy you’re on the phone with????
And then take a kid who’s a work in progress??
Khan makes Cherington look like a genius.
What a sickening night
His bat speed and knowledge of the baseball spins are in dire need of improvement and soon
The bottom of this lineup’s batting order is undoubtedly one of the worst in baseball in terms of offensive production
Come on MOB
Call him PaulMOB
call me anything you want.
Still can’t believe you MOB wanted Konnor to freaking bunt
He hasn’t shown himself to be Ohtani-like just yet, Dream
I still can’t believe that you’re too arrogant to admit that he has already bunted for a hit last weekend
Have you ever admitted being wrong about anything, Dream?
You’re unconscionable sometimes
1 time I thought I was wrong and I was wrong
It takes a big man to admit he was wrong one time 🙄
I usually wait until the middle of May to begin planting vegetables, this year, I have already started
Zucchini, tomatoes, lettuce, peppers both sweet and hot, potatoes and cabbage so far
Watching these grow from seed and into edible treasures are in my opinion, a miracle
Every year I grow increasingly fascinated by the will of gardening, this one is no exception
I am still eating hot peppers that were grown last year and if you know how to preserve the fruits of your labor, gardening can bring joy and happiness into your harvest
I have fruit bearing trees. A fig that produces 200 figs a day when it’s in season. Young persimmons. And I work hard to cover them when the cold weather is about to come
But this was a brutal winter and I’m worried about them coming back this year.
and to top it all off, tariffs that were passed down to the consumers will be reimbursed to the businesses instead of us, according to the NYT
Are we all tired of winning yet?
Paul..according to orange ruffy,tariffs are paid by the exporting country. Which we all know is false. But people believe him.
With all the frenzy about the draft, and the penguins busted, its nice to see Derek Kelly/Donny Shelton, opps sorry I can’t seem to tell the difference between them anymore. It’s sad too see the clone Kelly messing up the year with his blunders. It was said that if Shelton had a good team they would win. Well Kelly has a pretty good team and the pirates seem to be reverting back to previous years. It would be great to see once and for all a set lineup most of the time. Leaving starters in past 75 pitches. Sending Carmen to the bullpen for long relief. Which is where he would excel and keep Kelly from using pitchers 1 inning at a time. Call up Barco for the 5th spot or use Dotel. Don’t let the season end before the all-star game.
Kelly is doing good. Who cares about the old and washed up pens steelers.
when baseball season ends, yinzers will care about the Pens and Steelers
The Steelers somehow get almost daily coverage by media here year round. Doesn’t matter if fans care. They’re just always in your face
I think they get more attention because for years the Bucs have been horrible and haven’t had much to brag about
Plus football is a world wide sport, the Steelers have fans everywhere whereas the Pirates don’t
I lived in Jacksonville Florida for a number of years, there were more sports stores that sold Steeler gear than Jaguar gear
Plus there was 2 specific bars that were decorated in Steeler black and gold
I live overseas and care about both the Steelers and the Bucs. Never had time for hockey as it’s completely alien to me.
The NFL is big here in Europe and MLB is nothing.
Also im guessing when triolo comes back Donny Shelton/Derek Kelly, opps there i go again,that he will pencil his name in the lineup everyday.
You are hilarious. Shelton opps Kelly. Never heard that before.
Triolo should play everyday. Gold glove caliber 3b.
Jgio was referring to the term, “ oops”. Even a dimwit like me knew what he meant
Woodruff already has 3 strikeouts against 4 Pirate hitters
It’s going to be another double digit strike out performance by this lackluster offense
Griffin has finally shown some power hitting his first homer of his career
I am so happy for him, on his 20th birthday no less
Maybe this team will actually win tonight
Psul..it was only a matter of time for Griffin to get going
Saturday Sunday could be harder. Brewers 2 best pitchers are going. Probably our 2 worst although Bubba with no control is worse.
Keller pitches tonight followed by Carmen on Sunday
Which Keller will show up tonight, I wonder
Probably not the Keller of last season. He hasn’t arrived yet this year
strikeouts down, walks up
Strikeouts are down but I’ve seen all of his starts. Looks like he has better control of his breaking pitches
Other than his last start, I thought he’s looked pretty good
Keller is going to need to have control in tonight’s game. The Brewer’s pitcher just struck out 3 of the 4 first batters he faced
Double digit strikeout performance again, no doubt
Keller didn’t deserve his fate tonight
Prior to tonight’s game, Cruz was 0 for 8 against Milwaukee’s pitcher with 6 strikeouts
He’s already struck out twice against him so far so again my question is why is he playing
Cook hasn’t had a plate appearance since last week and neither has Yorke
Kelly’s lineup choices are in question because like his predecessor, he uses failed logic
Too many short fly balls dropping in here. Mangum. Cruz. Griffin. Need to work on communication. And the sac fly to Reynolds? No way a good CF with momentum to the plate *doesn’t* call him off and make a throw.
Like I’ve said, they’re much better than in years past but boy, they have a long way to go
15 strikeouts, 4 by Cruz alone
A good pitching performance by Keller wasted by an offense that couldn’t hit the ball well and a mismanaged defensive scheme
Reynolds should never be in the outfield when Ozuna isn’t in the lineup period.
Cruz needs a game off
Can we find a catcher who can actually hit before too long?
And yet, a better team than last year, most assuredly. They would have found a way to lose that game in past years
and the strikeouts continue with all 3 Bucs batters at the start of the game striking out
At least one wasn’t Cruz
7 ks in 4 innings, surprisingly the only Buc who hasn’t struck out
Ozuna
The Brewers’ pitcher is a journeyman who played previously for the Giants and never lived up to his potential. At least until now
Carmen should be a long reliever, after 3 innings he seems to fall apart
If Cherington really cared about winning, he’d release Bart and promote Endy
How long will Kelly leave Carmen in this game ?
He’s given up 5 runs in 4 innings
12 strikeouts in 5 innings
Is this the result of the pitcher or how horrible our offense is?
By the way, Sanders belongs in the minors
Agree with everything you said here. Glad Jared Jones will be back soon
This is the Pirates way. These kinds of games after winning a couple.
And the strikeouts against this kind of pitching is incomprehensible
18 strikeouts today. It’s embarrassing. In the 3 game series, the Bucs struck out 42 times
It’s reminiscent of last year’s franchise record setting statistics Strikeouts are going to happen but this many is truly a testament to how awful this offense can be
Awesome work Kyle Harrison. 9th on Red Sox starting pitching depth chart. Brewers fans cried Boston fans high five over 3 dwarf utility players for Harrison. Obviously 1 person called it right. Brewers contention window extended more.
mlbtraderumors.com/2026/02/brewers-trade-caleb-dur…
Yes. If only he could pitch against the Pirates every week. But seriously, good call.
Could be probably his best game of the year. Hard for any pitcher to beat that.
considering who he was pitching against it’s unlikely he will repeat that performance until he faces us again
As a team, the Pirates strike out with reckless abandon and it’s shameful that this has yet to change after years of mediocrity by a lackluster offense and coaching staff
Watching yesterday’s game brought back memories of the past 3 years when each team broke the franchise record for most strikeouts in a single season
The kid has talent, as Dream suggested. No doubt about that.
I can see fireballers striking out a great deal of batters, especially those with spin and off speed pitches, like deGrom or Misioroski, but I wonder how this team swings and misses so much against even average pitchers. It’s almost unbelievable
you can’t predict the outcome of a season considering how injuries might affect the pitching staff
Regardless of your arrogance, you’re not Nostradamus
Because Ashcraft is on paternity leave, Kelly, in his wisdom of his predecessor, he is starting Mason Montgomery in tonight’s game
A bullpen game
In doing so, our bullpen will be questionable for the rest of the week unless Chandler can break out of his slump and give the team more time 4 innings
Wouldn’t it have been wiser to promote Barco to start tonight?
Exactly. There are a couple kids who could have come up for a start. But this is another page from the Sheltie playbook
Kelly doesn’t promote players. Not his job.
Dotel will probably come in after and go as many innings as he can. Montgomery probably just a inning or two. Dotel was a starter in minors.
Yeah. Agreed. And Dotel is who I immediately thought of. Wasn’t blaming Kelly for not bringing a guy up although it sounded like it
Paul was. I don’t think it matters. Barco wasn’t impressive good or even meh when he was here. Maybe better as a starter but why shuffle guys around for a single game.
Managers do there job well though. They have 2 primary duties. Babysit the players. Take the heat from the fans. They don’t do nearly as much as fans think they do. When the starter comes out and what relievers come in is already predetermined by analytics. Same with bunting and pinch hitting. Hate to crush you guys dreams.
Fans are always calling for a starter to be pulled after giving up runs even if the runs aren’t his fault or if it’s the 1st or 2nd inning. 162 games. That starter isn’t coming out until the pitch count gets too high or they are tired. Whatever reliever that comes in is decided by situation and matchups and availability. No decision for Kelly to make. That analytics already made it before the game series started.
Manager job is to keep clubhouse distraction free. Keep players motivated. Say the right things to media.
In the modern game, I have to think this is mostly true. And that’s a shame. Generally speaking, the short game is gone. Other ideas like hit and run, hitting to the other field, etc. are like dinosaurs. Pitch counts skew the idea of having good starting staffs. Paul bemoans reliever games but in a sense, they’re all reliever games in contrast to 20 years or more ago
Even playing percentages…bringing in a lefty pitcher to throw to a lefty hitter, pinch hitting for a batter who’ll hit from the opposite side…aren’t as automatic as they used to be. And I’m guessing analytics is the reason we see mystery line up cards now
I can’t think of exemplary managers now. No one stands out as a genius who’ll win games for you with strategies. It’s all vanilla now
I actually have to think being a manager or head coach in today’s professional sports has to be much different given the millionaires they are in charge of. College isn’t too far behind it with NIL and the transfer portal. Yeah. Babysitting.
Hard to imagine a Leyland or Billy Martin managing today
Should be less strike outs tonight. May isn’t that guy. Doesn’t walk many so have to hit. I would have started Mangum and gave someone a rest. Maybe no one needs a rest. But Mangum doesn’t walk so good pitcher for him to play against.
They listened to me
Reynolds needs a break, and Cruz is out of the lineup because of an illness
In Reynolds’ defense though, he’s 3rd in the league in walks drawn
I think Davis must lead the league in pop outs. He’s constantly trying to get underneath the ball which results in pop ups outs
I’ve given up on Davis. Really. He might have been one helluva college hitter, but it hasn’t translated. He still looks lost up there where the strike zone is concerned. Still gets fooled on pitches.
there’s several players on this team who seem to get fooled on pitches, not just Davis.
He has been a major disappointment offensively though, and so has the other catcher, Joey Bart
I said this before, it’s time to send Bart to Indy, if he has options available and promote Endy to give him a chance
He can’t be any worse offensively
Fire Cherington Kelly now. Instead of using no hit perfect game stuff Dotel they should have called up Barco!!!!!
You guys wanted Barco well you got him!!!!!!
Let’s pound the table for Harrington next. The fakest top 100 prospect the prospect ranking idiots ever had. Paul throws away bad tomatoes harder than Harrington throws a baseball and he is a top 100?
(Yes. As spring training began. Clearly, he’s not ready)
Naw. Bring up Seth now. The Pirates may opt to put him in the pen LOL
Can’t waste Seth service time on this loser bunch. Seth has been ready for the pen since he was 16 years old. With his fastball change up he is already one of the best closers in baseball.
I don’t let tomatoes get to the point where they need thrown out
You don’t think the manager has any suggestions to the GM in what he needs or wants on a game day basis?
I am well aware that Kelly can’t single handily promote a player but he can certainly ask or voice his opinions
What kind of motivation factors does Kelly give to his players after they collectively struck out 42 times in 3 games? Keep swinging and missing?
Watching games like this, I actually think this is the future of the sport. I guess we’re already there, as starters generally go 5. But how long before managers figure it’s just as good to have a batter see a pitcher once. Keep changing pitchers.
I’m a purist. I tend to hate these games.
Should never have given away Bednar
The computer bot did not work tonight.
AI thinks that Kelly is just an automaton.
Why would a robot with AI just pitch Mattson one third of an inning?
Cherington should be fired if he thinks that a computer is better than the human brain.
They are just tools.They do not run the show.
Or have they taken over baseball,then the world?
I don’t think it’s just Dream. Watch a cross section of games and again, you see a lot of things you wouldn’t have seen 20 years ago. It’s almost like slow pitch softball. Go grab a bat and take a few hacks.
That said, what a sickening ending
And I’ll say it again. They gave Bednar away for peanuts
Santana was the obvious choice last year after Bednar was traded to be the closer but after signing Soto, I believed he should have been given the role as closer
If last night’s game didn’t convince you there was a script and Kelly just followed it nothing will.
I don’t know the reasoning. 1 inning is easier on a reliever than coming out warming up again for 2. Should help them be able to pitch again sooner. Keep them fresher through the season. That’s my guess.
It worked well. Just Santana didn’t have it. That happens.
Don’t like given but earned. Again whoever closes is pre determined by matchups. Actually like that. Have the best option at the right moment.
what script was that?
Not using Yorke or Cook as pinch hitters?
Same lineup that only produced 2 runs?
Reynolds being in a slump yet still batting 3rd?
Yeah, it was a well run script
The pitching hasn’t been the real problem, the lack of offense is
I think in general, he meant the pitching rotation scheme for the game
Could be
And somehow, Santana is the closer here.
No confidence in this guy whatsoever, almost as unreliable and inconsistent as Lawrence.
They’ve already had some sickening losses this year. There will be more
But it’s hard to believe anything will top this one
Blame whatever you like. But it begins with Kelly. Whether he’s going by analytics or not, his decisions have already lost them a handful of games.
This one was beyond sickening
I really didn’t have a problem with the pitching scheme though I do question why Dotel wasn’t used as the starter since he did pitch 3 innings
My beef is using Santana as the closer. This was his second blown save whereas Soto is a much better choice especially because he’s a lefty with more efficiency and a power arm
I’d actually rather have Ramirez closing before Santana. At least against righties.
And they gave Bednar away for nothing
That stink won’t wash off soon, trading Bednar for nothing. Flores has potential but this team needs players who can hit now and other than a select few, I am afraid 75 wins would be a reach if this offense continues to sputter in the long run as they have done recently
Why would you ever use someone who can’t hit to pinch hit. Cone duty mascot is what cook is good for not hitting
Like I always say. You guys are more fans of complaining than fans of the Pirates.
Before last night Santana had a 0.69 era. Gave up only 1 run the entire season. Is there a better a pitcher in all of baseball to use there? Can’t be many.
Stupid Kelly using his closer with a 0.69 era! Fire Shelton I mean Kelly. Might as well be Shelton I can’t tell the difference.
I suppose you are fine with Santana continuing to pitch after giving up a homer??
What is your opinion on Cruz striking out looking white never taking his bat off his shoulder at all 3 pitches?
Or Reynolds in a slump still batting third then striking out.
The Cards pitcher just struck out the side in the first inning
I suppose you will defend the batters because Kelly penciled their names in the lineup
Reynolds didn’t get a hit last night. Neither did Davis.
You make silly claims about everything
What claims I make about Reynolds and Davis?
Once your best or 2nd or 3rd best reliever come in they are staying until their pitch count gets up. So I am fine with it. Pretty much every manager who ever managed mlb would done same.
Cruz strikes out! Thanks for the breaking news.
Reynolds is hitting the ball harder than 75 percent of players and walking more than 94 percent of them. So if he is in any slump it hasn’t been long.
saying that Cook can’t hit. Obviously neither can those guys
3 nothing against the Cards and it’s only the 3rd inning
The Bucs have struck out 4 times in 2 innings
But according to you, they are good hitters
And Cruz striking out without ever taking the bat off his shoulders is a problem, especially when he’s 0 for his last 9 plate appearances with 7 strikeouts.
Reynolds is 1 for his last 17 plate appearances
How long do you think his struggles have been?
It’s called research
make that 5 strikeouts in 2-1/3 innings and against a pitcher not known for strikeouts
Sorry Dream, but this is too reminiscent of the past few years when runs were a thing of imagination
So for the record are you saying Cook is a better hitter than Reynolds?
Where I say they are good hitters?
You never played baseball which is fine but 1 for 17 is absolutely nothing. You can see the ball and have your swing as good as ever in your life and go 1 for 17. If he was actually struggling they would give him some off days like Ozuna I would guess.
I never said that Cook is a better hitter than Reynolds but the latter is in a slump so maybe it’s time to give him a game off.
You can’t score runs if you’re not getting on base
Yes I played baseball, but not professionally and what does that even matter?
This team isn’t scoring runs period. As in recent seasons, it seems everyone is in the same slump. Only O’Hearn, Gonzalez and Magnum have been getting hits
Our catching duo can’t hit their way out of a paper bag
Ozuna has been a disappointment
But it’s okay to be in a slump because I never played baseball
Silly me
That’s patently ridiculous. So Santana getting hammered was ok. That makes no sense whatsoever.
To me, he comes out after the homer. Period.
If not then after the next batter gets a hit for sure. Why have a bullpen and multiple closers?
Last night’s sickening loss is only magnified in this game. I guess I should mention I never played or managed professionally
I just know the game.
Last night’s loss is the kind that energizes another team. It’s showing today. You turned a well pitched game—a shutout—into a mind numbing loss. Those kinds of games define seasons. It’s why this will not be an 87 win team. I may even be off with 82
I don’t care about analytics as you do. When robots play, let me know. You carry so many position players and so many pitchers.
Instead of allowing them to pull splinters out of their backsides why not use them when a guy is going bad. You see, this is where analytics fail miserably.
And against the. Cardinals of all teams.
You never went 1 for 17 or 3 for 19 etc? I suppose if the level of competition isn’t high it’s possible. Hard to slump in little league but travel ball or couple good highschool college teams in a row it’s probably going to happen. Sometimes you destroy a baseball and it goes right intk a glove. Sometimes you are like how did I miss that pitch. But even the very best mlb players only average 5 for 17. So that can easily turn into 1 for 17 in some stretches. Reynolds is more not doing well vs just being unlucky but still it’s 17 or 21 after today. He’s not so old that he is likely finished. Gotta look at more of his work than 17.
If he was 0 for 100 I still don’t want to see Cook. Cook can pinch run play some defense. Other than that stick with hoisting the cone. Although the way they been playing might as well send Cook and cone down.
2 hits the brutal slump is over!
How about this manager. Cruz hr. Lowe line drive deep. Slumping Reynolds hit. O Hearn hr. Guy still pitching. Kelly ain’t managing them.
162 game season. No short leash on your horses. Really can’t have short leash on anyone but your best guys absolutely not.
Can’t replace him anyway. Takes time to warm up a reliever.
I never managed anywhere. Just some common sense. Most fans don’t have it. Everyone complains about the same things. They want to win every game. If the team doesn’t they look for reasons how the game was right there to win but so and so lost the easy win usually the manager. Fans manage like they know what they are doing. All you guys know more and better than Shelton Kelly. And you want to manage like it’s extra innings game 7. Kelly knows what he is doing. At least as much as any other manger. You bring your closer in they are in until they have to be pulled. No one else to call in because no one is warming up. You are stuck with him for 5 batters at least likely.
First off, I’d send you my resume but why bother?
Second, no, most fans don’t complain about the same things. You have old school fans who argue the nuances of the game. Then you have guys like Bright Eyes to tell us that we shouldn’t believe what we see. Because he has the analytics. How a player wears his hat is more troubling to those types.
You’ve missed the point here.
There’s a difference in slumps.
A guy can be 1 for 17 with good at bats
You don’t need to sit him
Another guy can be 1 for 17. He’s not seeing the ball. It’s gotten into his head. He’s pressing.
This is the guy you sit
Pity that analytics can’t tell one from the other
And although many of us played and coached/managed at various levels, you don’t need that kind of background to to understand.
Real fans feel the game. Humans play it. Numbers only describe it
You don’t sit Reynolds on a team that also has Gonzales Davis Bart Cook. And even Yorke. Yorke best of bunch but no Reynolds. Mangum as well. A lot of junkage on this team.
They literally didn’t sit Pham when he literally couldn’t see the ball. 1 for 17 ain’t doing it.
Poor bright eyes what has he ever been right about? He just parrots the same thing. Many times just repeats what’s in the article. He doesn’t like you though.
Who did they have last year to replace Pham?
Gonzalez was hitting 300 and on a tear.A good clutch hitter too.
Yeh,he is junk.
Just playing with you AI.I know that you are smarter than that statement.
At least I hope so.
Canario
Hitting 330. Very lucky. Nice Lil player but just a guy. If he’s better than Reynolds this team isn’t going anywhere.
prior to the 13 hit, 7 runs outburst in last night’s game, the team as a whole were in a slump
Yes; slumps happen but when an entire team goes through one at the same time, a knowledgeable person would have to question why
“ just some common sense, most fans don’t have any “
There you go again, the arrogance always gets the better of you
You mean Gonzalez and his 9 game hitting streak?
He’s been the only player recently who hasn’t been in a slump
if every player hypothetically goes into a 1 for 17 slump, you’re not going to win many games, especially if the pitching isn’t throwing a perfect game
If that’s the case, I’m doing something right.
I don’t remember ever needing a data geek to help me coach or manage a team
Interesting that both Bednar and Wetherholt are from Mars.
I have to believe that the managers have control once the game starts.
I had a feeling that Santana was going to pitch like he did in that Colorado game last year with the twenty runs.It must be awful to give it up for Cam Sanders to have to finish the game.
I also am ashamed that there are no more fans in the stands than at this time last year.
And it was not they who gave him away it was Cherington.
Penguins game 5. School night. Draft wore out the populace. I would normally agree with you but un this instance, I think there were good reasons
Good observations as per normal for you young man.
But the Pirates in general deserve better.
The Pirates fans deserve better
Paul and Washed-I sincerely hope that AI GM is wrong about once the game starts but I have no problem with using stats to make game time decisions if they make sense in the moment.
I give Cherington credit for signing Soto and having two closers.They should be used for matchups.You both know my thoughts on this subject.
And Santana had an era of about 0.69 which is pretty good and I think that you will admit that.
I would have had Ramirez ready in the bullpen.I think that the computer said to keep him out,but every good reliever has a bad game once in awhile.Santana should have been pulled after the second home run.
This is not rocket science.
If there is a blowout in the second game you can use Cam Sanders.
And if Yohan gets tired from overwork then rest him.I think that management tries to plan ahead for future games and lose sight that they have to win the one that they are playing in.
Once again no thought of immediacy.
I am not sure that Kelly is smart enough to think this way,and Cherington may be too smart and thinks that computers will solve all of his problems.
He can ask Matt Klentak how well that worked out for him.
I had no idea Santana had done that well
I guess my memory is shaped via the memory of tough outings.
Still, you turned a well pitched game into a tie and then somehow allowed it to morph into a loss.
Analytics aside, managers know when the tide is turning and a pitcher is in trouble.
The Pirates are third in the majors in blown saves with 8.
That’s possibly 8 more wins and would easily put this team in first place in the Central Division
That said, in the future Kelly should have an arm warming up in the bullpen in close games in the event that the selected closer doesn’t have his good stuff, he can be replaced before the game gets out of hand
You don’t warm up arms just incase tonight is the first game all season long Santana isn’t good. That’s ridiculous
You do if you want to have a chance to win the game.
Santana is not Rivera.He has bad days they just had not come this year yet.
Hindsight is 20-20.
Stupidity is generally forever.
No team is warming up a reliever in that situation nor should they. Nor could they.
so, in your assessment, not warming up a pitcher in a 2 run lead game, is preferable to losing the lead and the game
Santana is good but he’s not perfect and will have off days as Monday’s game proves
Just take another loss since there’s still 139 games to play
Color me shocked
Have no choice. You can’t warm up a pitcher until he struggles then it’s usually too late.
so you’re saying that pitchers don’t throw between starts or throw on the side to keep their arms loose?
This team has three pitchers who have the ability to close out games
Santana, Soto and Ramirez. Even Mattson has the potential to be an effective closer but he only pitched one third of an inning in Monday’s game which makes no sense
Why not let him pitch the following inning to save an arm?
Oh that’s right, analytics says differently
I get that when it’s your closer, you are placing a great deal of faith him to do just that. I also get that sometimes things fall apart quickly
That was the case on Monday.
I get that his numbers have been pretty decent but you’ll forgive me for an old school approach to him. I never had confidence in Chapman. For some reason I don’t have much faith in this guy, either.
But let me extend the thinking about closers here. Mendoza will tell you that really, you need two. If that’s the case, I don’t get the usage of Soto on Monday and of Mattson. Makes no sense.Soto isn’t your set up man. Mattson and Ramirez are. If it’s analytics at play, it’s stupid
I never said that
1 inning is easier on the arm than 2 innings allegedly.
Your closer setup even more so. But you can’t be warming up arms just incase. I don’t know if it makes a difference but teams believe it.
You’re missing the point here. You had Mattson out there—he’s your set up man
The best managers see things an inning or two ahead. Kelly didn’t. It’s not about warming up Soto. You just wasted him in that situation
No way he should come into a 2-0 game when Mattson was in control
As the 9th approaches, sure, you warm up both
Basic baseball 101
Undoubtedly thanks to analytics and guys like bright eyes, who never played beyond Little League
But hey, he has all the data, all the answers
It’s asinine.
I’ll say this….this series sweep is on Kelly and Santana. Period. You breathed life into a dead team.
Make that 6 strikeouts in 3 innings
Cruz is 3 for his last 25 plate appearances with 13 strikeouts
Maybe it’s time to reshuffle the lineup. Or play small ball just to get runners on base
Oh that’s right, Kelly would rather they swing away no matter where the pitch is thrown
7 strikeouts now in 6 innings with Davis swinging at a pitch nowhere close to the plate
But it’s okay according to Dream. Not scoring runs is good as long as our closer is able to throw alot of pitches
I can’t watch this wasteful game anymore tonight
I would rather eat dirt
Paul and Washed- I suggest that you may want to consider getting less emotionally involved with these clowns as I have done.
They have promise every year but they and the manager are not fundamentally sound.
There is not enough common sense in the GM nor the manager.Too much analytics.
I am not going to follow each game anymore just see the final score.
I would still like to win my bet though with 84 games won.
3 game losing streak with the best team in a decade Mendoza is out.
They can field a team of quad a garbage and Paul will be sitting there 162 chewing on his towel watching them lose 110 games. Kai Tom is 0 for his last 7 while Josh Van Meter is 2 3 for 10 but stupid Shelton didn’t pinch hit!
Which is why wishing for a .500 team is the best one can hope for. I’m ok with horrible losses. In fact, I expect them
Why did they start someone who just came back from bereavement?Why did they pitch a guy in relief who is a starter?
Why do you and they think that losing games now means less than two months from now?
Why?Because your silly computer told them to do so!
Remember that we have seen this crap for probably more years than you have been alive.
That is why pessimism prevails.
It is based on experience.
Yours is based on statistics.
Yours is based on not knowing how the human interaction cannot be modeled accurately by any computer since they are still much less powerful than the mind of a good intelligent knowledgeable human with common sense.
You have them at over 76 games won.
They play and manage like this and you will lose your bet.
And since Nutting has shelled out good hard cash let’s see what happens near the end of this year.
Mr Nutting may have to take action like he has done before.
Ashcraft is the starter and it was his turn. He’s better than Barco much better. Barco pitched in relief because they need him as a available arm to do so. Not sure what a computer has to do with any of this. A mlb game was scheduled to play so someone has to pitch it. I never said games now mean less than 2 months from now so no idea why you think that.
actually Monday was Ashcraft’s turn but was away from the team due to a death in his family which raises the same question Mendoza had
Perhaps Ashcraft was still grieving and should have waited to pitch
Barco isn’t ready for prime time but a fresh arm was needed and he got the call
Fans short for fanatics fanatical. You say some really crazy it. I understand though because you are a bunch of wild crazy fanatics. Don’t hate me and my calm thinking trying to reason with you. And forgive me for trolling messing with you. It’s just too much fun. But remember 162 games. Can’t burn through your pen in April. These games won’t matter in May but August September these arms will either be suffering or still going become April decisions.
these games might not matter right now but with every loss, these games will make a difference later in the season when they are in need of wins to make the playoffs
Do you proofread your comments before posting them?
What part was wrong?
They certainly matter
And under Kelly so far, they’ve had a couple losses that I think will come back to haunt them. This is a team that will need those handful of wins turned into losses
And truthfully, Monday’s loss remains beyond sickening to me.
Your “closer”. Dear God, you can’t be serious
Yesterday why didn’t that idiot Shelton Kelly call up Barco to start the entire game.
Today why did that idiot Shelton Kelly bring in Barco losing to pitch 1 inning.
Wait until our prodigal son starts pulling the ball more.
Wash this loss off and get them tomorrow. Reynolds is finally out of that brutal slump. Kelly listens to you and gave you Barco.
Yeh and just keep flushing the losses.
If this team is under 500 this year both the manager and general manager should be gone.
Fans been saying that for years and years and years. A broken clock is right… so probably actually happens this year.
You were saying that about Shelton too.