Joe Mauer's eight-year, $184MM extension with the Twins will be officially announced later today. Reactions from around the web:
- Aaron Gleeman says "the decision was a no-brainer for the Twins despite the incredible amount of risk involved." Gleeman notes that a payroll in the $100MM range will still leave the Twins with "more money to spend than they had in any previous season" despite Mauer's percentage.
- Joel Sherman of the New York Post suggests Twins catching prospect Wilson Ramos could "enable the Twins to better preserve Mauer." Or maybe Ramos becomes one of the game's better trade chips?
- How much did Mauer leave on the table? ESPN's Jayson Stark believes he could've gotten $30MM per year and more than eight years on the open market. Stark's colleague Buster Olney says Mauer "might've walked away from the promise of another $60 million to $70 million in free agency."
- ESPN's Rob Neyer discusses the opportunity costs of being locked into a Mauer megadeal, as well as the short-term credibility cost of not signing him.
- Red Sox catcher Victor Martinez told WEEI's Alex Speier that Mauer "deserves every penny he got." Regarding his own extension, Martinez is leaving the ball in Boston's court and hasn't heard anything thus far.
buster olney, now there’s a guy who’s opinion is still relevant.
Were these experts able to predict to any degree of accuracy, this year’s down market? Not really. So what makes them so bold as to throw out these numbers?
Somebody really should call out these expert types. Yesterday they were saying “I can’t believe Holliday got the contract he got!” Then Mauer gets his and they’re claiming he should have got more. I’m not trying to say they’re equal players by any means, but is Mauer really worth 2 Hollidays? According to some he’s worth 3. These professionals are lucky they chose their current profession. Imagine if they were accountants!
They’re saying the Cards gave Holliday too much because no one else was really bidding on him. The Cards lets Boras play them and know might be hamstrung for a couple years. They weren’t even able to afford to get some pitching or any type of depth because of that ridiculous contract
Regarding Holliday: I understand the popular position (no one was really bidding on him), but I believe it to be flawed. A more comprehensive market analysis might conclude that he’s worth that much money and if the Cards hadn’t offered it, another club would have swooped in with a higher annual salary, short-term contract. As it happened though, the short-term market for Holliday was never given the chance to develop. A 17 million/year, 7-8 year deal in the hand is worth a 23 million/year deal + Next year’s free agent possibility deal in the bush.
The point about the Cards depth holds no water. The Cards did pick up Felipe Lopez on the cheap and still have financial flexibility to address concerns that may pop up mid-season. Just because a club has money to spend, doesn’t mean they spend it right away.
Regarding Mauer, he would certainly have more ‘market competition’ than Holliday had, but the fundamental question still remains, is his production worth 2-3 times that of Holliday. In my humble opinion, both players got the right contract.
I meant pitching depth. They have an incredible 1-2, but Penny runs hot and cold and the rest of the rotation isn’t great.
Personally, I think Holliday got overpaid. I really think they could have shortened it up or knock some dollars off and saved it for Pujols
All the money the Cards will need for Pujols will be there. If not the ownership may want to sell the franchise and leave the country, not necessarily in that order. Pujols means more to St. Louis than just his game, much the way Kurt Warner is still loved here. DeWitt and Co. won’t be able to fill half the stadium if they let Pujols go or trade him, even if the chip coming back was a player like Ryan Howard.
The flaw in the argument is that NOBODY did in fact swoop down to pick Holliday off. Teams had plenty of time to consider their options. Nobody came close to the offer put forward by the Cards. The market had ample time to develop. It just didn’t happen.
Same thing with Bay. Only a few clubs were interested. In the end the only club offering a contract was NY. If NY hadn’t made the offer Bay might have been looking at a 3/40 type deal as his best choice.
Holliday could still outperform his contract value (I think he will easily for the first 3-4 years) but that would still make this a suspect signing. Knowing that you could have shaved a few mill/year off or maybe reduced the contract by a year or two means the club gave up more money than was necessary.
Redbirds16, i think Olney and Neyer and just sulking because they were starting to fantasize about Mauer as a Yankee, or at the very least, somewhere on the east coast. Yes, no doubt he could have gotten more in free-agency, but Mauer was born and raised in MN, drafted by the Twins and has become great as a Twin. I’m not saying he gave them a ‘home-town’ discount, but what is the price being able to do that as a player? Mauer, and his family, are set for life so really, what’s the difference?
This extension essentially guaranteed V-Mart getting extended in my opinion.
The Mets will be in on V-Mart should Boston not extend him before he hits Free Agency. They’ll also give more years than the Red Sox just like with Bay. Should be interesting.
V-Mart should be treated as a 1B when he hits free agency. IF a team gives him more than 3 years at any type of serious money they will regret this deal. His defense behind the plate is below league average, his money is in the bat. Only way he makes a 3 year deal is if he plays half his games at the corner or DH. Tough to give top Catcher money to a guy who isnt really a catcher.
The Mets desperately want to be like the Yankees, but haven’t figured out yet that there’s more to it than outspending everyone else.
If there is more to just outspending everyone else, what happened in 2009? I think the secret is to grossly outspend everyone else.
with all due respect, aaron gleeman, one should probably use their “brainer” next time they hand over $184 million. just in case.
30 mil per year is crazy, am I the only person who thinks this? In 2582 ab’s Mauer’s career line is .327 ba with 72 hr’s and 397 rbi’s. His career high in hr’s last year, 28, was considerably higher than his second best year when he hit 13. He only has 2 seasons of double digit homers in 5+ seasons and has only played more than 140 games twice. Compare that with McCann who in 2123 ab’s has hit a career .293 with 91 hr’s and 391 rbi’s or Victor Martinez 3246 ab’s .299 ba, 111 hr’s and 559 rbi’s. I’m just saying I don’t believe that Joe is as good as everybody thinks he is, he is a real good player but Joe will probably hit .310 with 20 or so homers this year, is that worth 30 mil a year? Mac and VMart hope so but I’m not buying it.
He already had 3 batting titles. Catchers never win batting titles and he has 3. Scouts have always said his power would come and it did last year. He is also a very good defensive catcher and a smart ballplayer. He is not just offense he handles their staff very well. He is worth every penny.
Too bad he is a power hitter. He hit 28 HRs with missing the whole month of April. He could have easily hit 35+
his power suddenly came on and no one is saying anything about peds becuase he is a nice guy….im just kidding, well sort of. The guy who was comparing mauer, vart, and mccan…dude you just compared the 3 best catchers in the game today include russel martin and those are the top 4 catchers each one of them could command the 8yrs 184 mill if they hit free agency…mauer is also a league MVP and a 2 time gold glover. No one deserves this money in the real world…but in the sports world he does
Vart is probably a typo but I think I’m going to start calling him that.
I just Varted actually
Really Russell Martin the 4th best catcher in the league? Thats pretty laughable considering the season he had last year and an injury this year he is dropping fast. I would say Matt Wieters is by far the 3rd best catcher in the league.
Wieters? little premature there Mccann and Victor are way better than Wieters
agreed, martin took a giant dump on my fantasy team. the guy definitely dropped a few slots in my book.
wieters 40 million a year? oh yeah!
Martin needs to rebound or else he’s nothing special.
And did Jorge Posada fall off the face of the earth recently or something?
None of those guys would land 8/184 deals on the open market. None.
I will grant you though that banking on Mauer’s power would be risky. I think you are looking at a guy who can consistently produce an OPS of 900 or so and give you 500+ PA’s. Anything beyond that is gravy.
Not crazy, but certainly uniformed. BA and rbi’s are not a good way to evaluate players. If he had enough PAs to qualify, Joe’s On Base Percentage would be in the top 40 of all time. The vast majority of the guys above him are in the Hall, going to be in the Hall or should be in the Hall, but aren’t for other reasons (Bonds, Shoeless Joe, etc).
Okay so last year Mauer’s obp was second to only Pujols, but was just ahead of…..Todd Helton? in 2008 He was sixth behind Chipper Jones and Milton Bradley? You giving those guys thirty mil a year? I’m just saying that one season, a career does not make.
Your going year to year when he was talking about his career OBP?
I think YOU are the one who is crazy. Devaluing a 3-time batting champ a league MVP is….wait for it…CRAZY.
I didn’t realize I was devaluing the guy by saying he wasn’t worth 30 mil a year. Sorry, he is absolutely worth 30 mil a year, in fact make it 50 mil a year. Its not my money and I won’t regret the deal next year when Joey hits 15-20 homers next year.
30 mil per year is crazy for anything no matter what. the guy plays baseball for a living. Contracts are so bloated now no one is worth what they are payed. New contracts are set up based on precedents set by previous contracts, so the entire system is skewed. sabathia makes 23 million a year, and grienke is better than sabathia so should greinke get 25 mil a year, and lincecum is even better so should he get 30 million a year?
i see your point, but if the players don’t get this money the owners will. i’d rather the owner invest in putting a good team together than the owners gettin all the profit.
The Twins like Ramos a lot, so they’ll keep him and let him catch more games than a Chad Moeller type would. It’ll keep Mauer healthy and fresh, and have a good man in place in case Joe gets hurt again. Plus he’s cheap for a lot of years. After this weekend that’s gonna be important.
i can see that happening for sure. Now more than ever the twins are gonna want to protect their 184 million dollar man. i can see mauer DH’ing every fifth day or so.
Prolly gonna get alot of hate for this but I’m pretty sure most Yankee fans want to end themselves right now. Definitely heard some things on this glorious website about the Bombers wanting this dude to take over for Jorge Posada when he most likely moves to DH in 2011 (those knees won’t hold up forever, props to the poor guy for lasting this long) and they would probably trade Jesus Montero and some other guys for a solid young outfielder who can become a true Yankee and hang around for awhile. Grady Sizemore maybe? But now all that can be thrown in the trash I guess. Jesus Montero will be a Yankee for awhile most likely
That Sizemore deal would have never happened anyway. The Indians already have Santana, so they would have no use for Montero. The only way that deal would have ever happened is if Joba or Hughes was in that deal. But since NY didn’t give either up for Halladay, I doubt they would give either up for Sizemore.
the yankees will for sure be in on vmart now if he is not extended and whats this about sizemore? are the yankees just going to try to get an out fielder from every al central team, swisher from the chisox, granderson from the T-I-double GA- Ers. let me guess they willtry to get cuddyer and then ankiel at some point too right? The only way size more is moved from the tribe is if they literally only win 20-30 games sizemore= mauer in Cleveland..plus his contract is extremely team friendly for what he brings to them
i pretty much pulled the Sizemore idea out of my you-know-what just to get the point across. It could be any young proven outfielder. On a side note, what does Sizemore’s contract look like? Just out of pure curiosity.
About 5.65M this year, 7M next year, and 8M for the option year. There might be some extra incentives somewhere in there that i missed.
i doubt that he has any incentives in his contract. Incentives are more for guys who are question marks like players coming off injuries and older players. Sizemore isn’t a question mark, he’s more of an exclamation point.
Yankees dont have any reason to go after Vmart.
You are so completely off base. Yankee fans didn’t want Mauer. They want to see Montero at catcher next year. He’s a legitimate middle of the order prospect who is a step away from the majors. Most Yankee fans would rather cut off their pinky than see him traded right now for anything.
And the Yankees will in no way be “in” on Victor Martinez. They have nowhere to play him. They have Posada for another year and Montero likely in the bigs next year. They have Tex at first. They are not going to pay VMart top dollar to DH for them. Look at this past season. They passed up Damon and Matsui to DH for them and went with Nick Johnson for chump change. They know Posada will most likely be DH’ing a lot next year.
Yankee fans, contrary to some opinions in here, don’t want the team to sign every star that is available. They actually want to see the home grown players succeed. Especially, Montero.
1)I’m not off-base. The dumb@$$es who were talking about the idea of Mauer going to the Yankees are the ones that are off-base. I’m just commenting on that and trying to make reference to previous posts in order to hopefully start a discussion
2)Are these the same Yankee fans that would have rather cut off their own pinky rather than see Austin Jackson traded? Face it, the Yankees haven’t always been the type of team to rely heavily on home-grown talent, which makes me wonder why Jesus Montero will be any different. I really hope he is gonna be different because I love the idea of untouchable prospects and some teams have no concept of that. The Phillies for instance traded away their top pitching prospect. Kyle Drabek has a tremendous upside and when the Phillies finally come to their senses dump that overrated sticky-looking lousy excuse for a superstar Cole Hamels they are gonna miss Drabek bad.
Yankee fans didn’t want mauer? You sure? Oh yeah you’re right anytime you can pick between a AA prospect with 0 MLB appearances over a 3 time batting champion, you just gotta take the minor leaguer. You are a twit. Mauer is in the top five hitters in the MLB and the top catcher in the game. of course you wanted him. I am a sox fan and i wanted the guy on my team i am not ashamed to admit it.
Did Jesus Montero die??
Can Montero catch yet? From what I hear he will never catch in the majors because he is that bad behind the plate. His bat on the other hand is MLB ready and can be very productive.
There are reports that his defense is improving and that this year is his make it or break it for whether or not he can stick at C.
Considering how a good amount of us wanted Mauer to stay with the Twins (in part so there’s no risk of Boston getting him, also in part because it’s good for baseball), I disagree.
Plus, show me who’s been talking about trading Montero so I can smack them silly. For both money and talent reasons, I’m completely comfortable with Montero and Romine being the future catchers/DH/whatever Montero ends up as.
I honestly don’t remember exactly who it was (i gotta start writing this stuff down) but don’t just smack them if you find out. Give them a Jon Jones elbow.
That sounds rather fitting.
I can’t speak for everyone, but I’m extremely glad he got locked up. It’s good for baseball and to be perfectly honest I did not want the Yankees to have a chance at Mauer, they would probably overbid like they tend to do and lock him into a 9yr deal which he would live up to for like the first 6 years but I’m very happy that my team can focuse on the superb pitching that will hopefully been in next year’s FA class.
If Mauer went to free agency I don’t doubt the Yankees and the Red Sox (and possibly the Mets) all would have went toe to toe to get a franchise player of this caliber.
30 million is a bit ludicrous, but 10 years and 25 million a year would have happened since you wouldn’t be giving up talent to get him, only cash.
Mauer left money on the table, but he did the absolute right thing in staying in Minny. He has more money than he’ll spend in his lifetime and he gets to play for his favorite team. That’s worth something.
It’s a great day for Twins fans although giving any catcher 8 years is terrifying.
$30 million? I am sorry that is insane.
$27.5 million? that’s totally reasonable.
I knew someone was going to bring that up. Yes I think that was way too much also.
Sorry Yankee fans aren’t allowed to talk about money. Everyone on your roster is overpaid
Sure your right all of them are overpaid. I guess we also buy championships too, right?
haha yes actually I would say thats valid too bad they have no idea how to put a team together so they just win every now and then nowadays
And the Twins havnt won since 1991.
and you werent a Yankee fan until 2000
Actually 98 when I first started following baseball.
my point exactly quiet Mr. Bandwagon
Well I guess I was a 7 year old bandwagoner living in New York. And I guess all seven year olds that live in New York root for them just because they won the WS.
Man, you missed the 80’s into the early 90’s when people were asking “what ever happened to the Yankees?” and “will Don Mattingly ever be in the playoffs?” (Yes, once, in his last season — lost in the ALDS.) Everything is cyclical, friend.
talk about a blow to the sweet spot. Well put my friend, well put.
Thanks
absolutley right you buy championships. coincidence the season after you spend 400 mil on free agents you win the world series?
I have heard this buying championship BS so many times, his is all I can say: Ha-ha the Yankees won the WS and your team didnt.
I read somewhere that they compared the yankee’s 2009 World Series championship to s.e.x. with a hooker. Sure it might have been s.e.x. but in the end you had to pay for it and it is really nothing to be proud of.
Agreed
Get over it. Move on to the next season. Yankees won and nothing will change that.
Im not trying to change anything, but only yankee fans think that the 2009 World Series wasnt bought. To the rest of us it is painfully obvious. You are telling me there is no correlation between the 400 million spent and the world series ring?
If your not trying to change anything, than stop bringing it up.
so no correlation?
I really think moving Ramos would be in the Twins best interest. When you have a catcher like Mauer you want him catching as many games as he can, like Atlanta does with McCann, to get max positional value from him. Also when you have a DH as good as Kubel you don’t want to sit him to let Mauer get a ton of DH at bats.
The Twins really like Ramos and for good reason, he is one of the better (perhaps top five?) catching prospects in the game but you just cant sit that kind of value behind your $23M face of the franchise Catcher 90-95% of the time. I would go out and spend 1-2M on a very solid veteran backup catcher (again like Atlanta did with Ross) who is going to be able to excel in a backup role and be able to start when needed without being a black hole.
The Twins have a bit of history of doing young player for young player deals and if someone offered a solid young starder or middle infielder I would jump at it. Maybe a player like MI Sean Rodriguez from Tampa would be an example of a type of player they should be targeting. Get a top prospect who can actually start in Minnesota than use a top prospect as a 6 year backup.
exactly like what we did with Tyler Flowers. Amazing prospect but as a catcher had no future with the organization. So we traded him and got a full almost-playoff season out of Javier Vasquez.
So allow me to summarize what you are proud of the braves for doing. Trade a nice catching prospect who is young, cheap for Javier Vasquez who did not take you to the playoffs and is no longer on the team. So you no longer have Flowers or Vasquez. White sox bent u over the table with that deal.
Twins are gonna keep Ramos, trade Morales/Butera et. al. It may even happen fairly soon. Who ever said Mauer had to catch his entire career!?!?!??
I was following your summary until you left out part three, you know the one where we got Vizcaino as well as Cabrera and Dunn for Vazquez.
Also, for Mauer to be worth 23M he better be catching most of the next 6 years in which the Twins will control Ramos.
The Braves have no use for catching super prospects because of some dude named McCann who is only 26 and has three silver sluggers and four all star appearances. The only thing they can do with them is trade for something that will be useful. With Javier Vasquez, that was before we overpaid for Kenshin Kawakami who just happens to be the reason for having to get rid of Vasquez so you can’t call that a bad trade because we had no idea that things were gonna turn out the way they did. We have another young catching prospect by the name of Christian Bethancourt whom no doubt will be traded for possibly Chipper Jones’ replacement? I dunno, that’s WAY too far in the future.
while i agree with you i dont think they move him..think about this mauer needs a full day of ramos steps in, in a blow out ramos steps in, Move mauer to DH for a day, kubal to the out field to give an out fielder a day off and ramos steps in, this is why it made no sense to sign thome other than to piss sox fans off and make the espn people think the twins will win the world series because thome stll has it…he doesnt…news flash as long as you dont throw a fast ball or a hanging curver change he will strike out or get thrown out at first, all thome hits are low fast balls and hanging breaking balls you will be lucky to get 15 hrs out of the guy, should have saved the money and gotten a back up plan for nathan
Thome’s .847 OPS and IsoSLG of .232 would respectfully disagree with your statement that Thome is “done”.
For the role Thome has right now, he is an ELITE bench player and is hitting like he’s always hit so far this spring.
Thank god he signed. It would be sickening to see him wearing a Yankee uniform.
Twins get:
– Mike Lowell (and 3/4 of his salary)
– Choice of Dusty Brown or Mark Wagner
– Manny Delcarmen
Sox get:
Wilson Ramos
For the Twins this addresses: an inexpensive, good-hitting third baseman (need immediately), some bullpen help (need with Nathan out), and a projected backup catcher (to replace Ramos where he would be wasted).
If the Twins move Ramos this year I think it would be in a deal to get someone like Heath Bell, the Twins lineup is fine no need to give up a talented young prospect like Ramos in a deal built around Lowell.
Hell Yeah!!! Mike Lowell is a stud…oh wait he had like two good years in his career will you take Punto for him he has had two good seasons. Or maybe you can give us Kelly for Thome, Morales, and Crain. P.S. One teams Junk is not another teams gold!
Well said. Speaking of junk, do the Sox want Perkins?
Face it, Boston. Nobody values Lowell.
Besides, Ramos could fetch far better than a broken-down third baseman, some catcher nobody has heard of, and a meddling bullpen arm.
How about this one: Perkins, Casilla, and Valencia for Westmoreland.
Really? You want to trade for a guy who just had brain surgery? Perkins, Casilla, and Valencia must be BAAAADDD!
I don’t know in what world $12 mil is inexpensive. Lowell is often injured, doesn’t get on base a lot and is a horrible defender. Manny Delcarmen is very inconsistent. Dusty Brown is an AAA player.
The Sox will probably extend V-Mart. Hopefully, one of Wagner, Fed-Ex or Exposito will be the catcher of the future.
The Twins would be better of targeting Heath Bell as Nathan’s replacement.
Good point.
It is a win/win for everyone. Maybe Mauer could have gotten more but how much is enough especially when it already is recording setting?
If he wasn’t from Minn, I understand waiting but his entire family is there.
I get it….the money he is making is already team record setting
Bento – Is English not your first language or did you skip over the part where the Red Sox pay 3/4 of Lowell’s salary? Last year he had a .337 OBP while playing hurt. Who do you have there now that’s as good?
Dusty Brown is in AAA. Yes. Ramos was in Rookie League and AA last year. So? You want an equivalent catcher PLUS two other players that patch gaping holes? Get real.
Great for baseball, bad for Yankees, LOL TOO BAD!!!