Links for Saturday night, after Roy Halladay and Travis Wood traded zeros for nine innings….
- Bill Ladson of MLB.com writes that Mike Rizzo isn't looking to deal Adam Dunn. Rizzo repeated what's becoming a favorite phrase lately, telling Washington broadcaster Bob Carpenter that it'd be "very painful" to move Dunn, both for the Nationals and for the team acquiring him.
- The Dodgers were involved in talks with the Mariners for Cliff Lee, but wouldn't part with Chad Billingsley or James Loney, according to MLB.com's Evan Drellich.
- Jamey Newberg provides his detailed take on the Rangers' acquisition at The Newberg Report.
- In light of the Lee trade, Larry Stone of the Seattle Times takes a look at how some past blockbuster deals between division rivals worked out.
- Jim Leyland reiterates to MLB.com's Jason Beck that the Tigers could use some bullpen help.
- Ricky Nolasco knows that he might be on the trade block this month, writes Joe Capozzi of the Palm Beach Post. Joe Frisaro of MLB.com wonders (via Twitter) if the Yankees' scout in Arizona yesterday had an eye on Nolasco, noting that Joe Girardi managed the right-hander in 2006.
- River Ave. Blues passes along a story from El Universal (Spanish link) in which Ernesto Armenteros reports that the Yankees signed 18-year-old Colombian catcher Alfredo Castellon Jr.
I’m glad they wouldn’t part with Loney, but I really think Billingsley tops out at a #3 starter at best. He’s never gonna be an ace. So particularly if you’re getting an ace in return, why wouldn’t you? I presume it wasn’t a straight up deal, but Billingsley plus prospects? I’d do it in a second.
Loney is a below average first baseman and Billingsley is an above average starting pitcher. What do we need more: Hitting or pitching?
Loney is EASILY replaceable, Bills is a #2 at worst with the potential of being a one, remember how long it took Cliff Lee to blossom.
Oh, and Lee’s a rental, will command BIG money, and will be signing in all likelihood with the Yankees this offseason, an offseason in which we wouldn’t even have enough money to make an offer simply as a PR move.
So yeah, no dice.
1/2 year control of Lee vs. 2 1/2 years control of Billingsley is a pretty big reason.
I was going the exact opposite – what is the big deal about Loney – he has average written all over him.
I don’t know, a future Gold Glover who’s the most mature of all the Dodgers’ players in their mid-20s who, while he may never be a HR leader is probably good for 20 HR & 90 RBIs on a regular basis? I think he’s got a Steve Garvey, or at very least a Mark Grace-like career in front of him. Billingsley’s got skills, but he’s not emotionally mature enough. Pitchers mature in their 30s sometimes, but I don’t think the Dodgers should be willing to wait when they’re an ace (and maybe one bullpen piece) away from being the top NL team.
Loney is not a Gold Glover, doesn’t walk enough to be considered a future Mark Grace-like player, and RBIs are an awful way to judge a player.And this emotionally-mature stuff is bullshit, to be blunt.
honestly you would rather give up loney, our RBI leader, than billingsley our #3 pitcher? you can say whatever you want about loney but this guy has contributed more to this team than billingsley has this year. Oh yeah and billingsley doesnt have the balls to be a #2 or better.
Loney is your RBI leader because he bats behind the guys with the best OBPs. This is why RBIs aren’t a valuable measure. Sit down, son, it’s time we had a talk.
who are you? And actually RBI’s are a pretty good way to measure because not anyone can drive in 90+ RBI’s per year. You gotta be able to hit to get RBI’s.
RBI measure opportunity (i.e. men on base in front of you) as much as performance. Loney drove in 90 runs last year while slugging under .400. You really think the RBI are a better measure? Troy Glaus has one less RBI than Loney this year. It’s not because he’s hitting that well. It’s because the Atlanta lineup is stacked with high OBPs in front of him. A good starting pitcher like Billingsley is more valuable and harder to replace than a first baseman who get on base at a merely solid clip and doesn’t slug at all.
I agree with you that RBIs are not a good metric for judging a player’s production (as they are team dependent), but batting average w/ RISP is worth bringing into consideration. And, in that category, Loney has been outstanding.
First you said BA doesn’t mean anything, and now RBI means nothing. Awesome.
The truth hurts, doesn’t it?
Oh, and just to rub salt in your clearly misplaced wound, Wins are an abomination of a stat (the worst for starting pitchers), ERA is inferior to FIP and tERA, and Saves don’t mean a damn thing when it comes to relievers.
Loney’s slugging .431 in his big bounce back year. Simmer down.
The Dodgers PR department release the same crap each year. They were in contention for a star pitcher but were unwilling to give up either the highly touted minor leaguer, or young talent. Of course what they never tell you is if Seattle was willing to pay Lees salary for the next six weeks and the dodgers could have maybe pocketed some money to boot Seattle would have had there choice of players.No player under contract for the next few years will be moved by the Dodgers it all has to do with the profit and loss statement.The McCourts dumped Santana, and they dumped Bell and pocketed a few bucks. Nor will they pay decent money for a top prospect.It may be time to do what San Diego did trade some of this coming of age talent for some talented prospects.
Of course what they never tell you is if Seattle was willing to pay Lees salary for the next six weeks and the dodgers could have maybe pocketed some money to boot Seattle would have had there choice of players<—-How do you know this? Lee to the Dodgers was never a fit. They wanted a big league caliber hitter, plus propsects. They were probably willing to settle for Loney if it meant they got Billingsley, which wasn't going to happen. The M's got a great haul from the Rangers, and the M's are only paying PART of Lee's salary. That right there should tell you the Dodgers never had a chance at Lee without givig up a significant part of our big league roster.
Yeah a great haul? a bunch of minor leaugers and a 1st. round prospect hitting .205. A haul of rubbish maybe?
Average? A player that was labeled as a potential gold glover and batting champion? A career .332 RISP guy, who has come within 10RBIs of 100 without topping 15 HR’s? Wait until he develops some power. We’d be no where right now without Loney, especially his last 2 months of production.
…and who would you replace Loney with this year btw? You a SP, but leave a gigantic gap in our lineup. Belli-lard? Please.
LOL.
first off: Loney is 23rd among 25 qualifying first basemen in OPS. Third from the BOTTOM.
Secondly: DeWitt would move to third, Blake would move to first, and Carroll would come in at second. That would be a defensive upgrade at 2nd and 3rd and not much of an offensive downgrade from Loney to Carroll.
His OPS is .756
Hey buddy, AVG is the worst way to judge an offensive player. Try OBP, wOBA, WAR.
I hope you mean batting average. Especially with RISP.
He meant average in terms of home runs, guys. C’mon.
Wait..you didn’t?
Oh well, can’t save you now. Just because a player isn’t a fantasy monster doesn’t make him average. i can name quite a number of reasons why Loney is an above average 1st baseman. Not prototypical, not amazing, but definitely VERY good.
Actually, Loney is quite average. Below average defense (UZR/150 or TZ), slightly above average hitter (OPS+ or wOBA) which isn’t very good for a 1B, and a perennial 2 WAR player.
He’s also 26 and under team control for another two years. Not remotely comparable to the upside of a player like Smoak/Montero.
dude, get out of here with your UZR crapp! he is an above average defender. UZR doesn’t mean a thing to me. He is a future gold glover. And i didn’t know 60 RBI’s was average.
I didn’t know RBI’s mattered.
last time i checked RBI’s do matter. Thats why they have RBI’s is a real stat unlike that crap stat UZR.
Says the uneducated fool.
“The earth is flat!”
That’s what I imagine you’d write on a website devoted to exploration of the planet.
UZR is a stupid stat, sorry thats just my opinion
I love when fans think they are better at judging fielders than real fielding statistics.
UZR is off for first basemen. There are better arguments against Loney.
UZR doesn’t work very well for first basemen. I’d leave that out of the argument.
I meant average in the context of nothing amazingly special.
Yea he is a good player, but it wouldn’t stop me dealing him for Cliff Lee.
The gold glove bit was quite amusing, because its probably true knowing how gold gloves are, I would rather a 1B who wasn’t below average on defense, but hey, to each their own.
And as toomanyhatz said, an ace away.. what about Lee this year and either resign him with Manny’s money, or get some top draft picks to restock.
As who I would replace him with, what about Hank Blalock?, not even one of the many 1B available at the deadline.
If any of you want to explain how you would be better with Loney and Padilla, instead of Blalock and Lee – please feel free.
The fact is so far all Loney has been is a 1-2 WAR player. Good, nothing really special.
The McCourts won’t pay above slot in the draft except in rare occasions, and pretty much intentionally drafted a player (Zach Lee) they knew they couldn’t sign in part because they’re cheap and baseball-broke at the moment.
So yeah, restocking though the draft is not really an option.
Loney is 23rd among 25 qualifying first basemen in OPS. Third from the BOTTOM.
My bad-my bookmarked fangraphs link is set to 2009 and sometimes i forget. He’s actually been doing better this year, but is still below average.
Definitely average at best. And overrated by a massive amount of my fellow Dodgers fans.
Just think, we could have drafted Joey Votto that year.
A damn shame I tell ya.
Nolasco better find a way to bump that K rate up a bit. Peripherals are decent, but I dunno, i don’t like him pitching in NYS.
Plus the Marlins would ask for too much, I bet. And Nolasco isn’t the guy I’d be willing to give too too much for.
Also…seriously, ANOTHER catcher? Cashman…we only need one heir to Posada. We currently potentially have like 3.
The fact that a catcher almost netted the Yanks an ace should thoroughly illustrate that you can never have enough. If there’s a log jam they’re great trade bait, one of the most coveted positions.
The main reason the Yanks went after him is because he is both LH and a Yankee killer in the past. They were looking ahead to the playoffs facing him, nothing more. That team can go 4 deep rotation wise as it is with anybody and everyone that watches (and knows anything) baseball can plainly see that they are going to win the AL east and they will only be needing *3* SP’s in the playoffs for the early part anyway and 4 later on.
Sort of ‘preventive maintenance” is all it was trying to get him, that team could care less about it’s prospects, they are nothing but trade chips most of the team and will buy any player they want most of the time if need be, just like they will almost certainly buy Lee after this season anyway when he becomes a free agent.
I sure am glad the Reds didn’t send off Wood for any Lee deal … looks like Walts smarter then a lot of these guys on here that would have gladly put him in a deal for Lee … lol
Your right! Guilty as charged! I would have! Tonight he looked like a ace. Definetely changed my outlook on him. I want to see him put together some more outstanding starts though before I see him as a future #1 or #2 pitcher in the rotation.
I still don’t think he’ll be more then a #2 tops although I hope I am wrong & he becomes everything that Cliff Lee has … but even if he doesn’t, cheap, talented LH starters are just too difficult to come by & Lee would have only been here for 2+ months. Wood has the best change up from a lefty that I have seen since Hamels came up through the minor league ranks. And that cutter of his just chews up bat handles on RH hitters
What do you think the Marlins would be looking for in a Nolasco deal? More young pitching? I know they have some good hitting prospects and I thought most of their young pithers have been in the majors already.
He’s the kind of guy the Pirates staff needs, but I doubt they’d be able to put together a solid offer for him. I’d like to see them bring in an established pitcher who can strike guys out and isn’t past his prime. If he can cut down on the homers, he’s the kind of buy-moderately low player that would really pay off. The Marlins traded Willingham and Olsen for peanuts, Neal might be able to pull a fast one on them.
James Loney is solid player. Ned should have sign and trade C-bills for lee. Just hope Ely works things out
James Loney is worth about 2 WAR a season. A league average player playing at a position where most are way above league average. Cliff Lee is worth 6-7 WAR a season. Half a season of Lee is worth almost 2 seasons of Loney…………………………Ugh AVG with RISP and RBIs mean nothing, Loney gets RBIs because the players in front of him get on base a lot, and because for some reason he hits cleanup.
Using your own statistic, WAR, Cliff Lee would be worth 3-3.5 WAR over 1/2 a season (6-7 WAR/season).Meanwhile, James Loney would be worth 5 WAR over 2 1/2 seasons (2 WAR/season).Which would’ve made it a bad trade for the Dodgers.
How many times do we have to go through the (insert team) is interested in Dunn, and Dunn will not be moved says (insert insider)
Nationals GM and Owner are not too smart.
Why? Because they won’t trade a guy who’s perennially undervalued by the league for less than he’s worth to them? Because they want to keep a star while they’re still trying to establish a fan base?
Because he will be gone anyway, and they still will be in last place.
He might not leave, and if he does, they might prefer the draft picks to the trade options.
People, baseball isn’t just all about stats. when you watch a player play you see stuff you wouldnt see in stats, thats why you cant say loney is below average because you guys probably dont see loney play, you just look at his stats. UZR doesnt determine if you are a good defensive player.
I watch just about every game. Stats (the right ones) are objective, your eyes can deceive you.