Earlier today, the Angels came out of left field to win the Dan Haren sweepstakes. Let's see what everyone has to say about what this deal means for both sides..
- ESPN's Keith Law (Insider subscription required) has a hard time believing that this is the best deal the D'Backs could get for Haren. As for the Angels, he writes that they have set themselves up beautifully for 2011.
- "We can’t deny the volume and the depth that this brings us as an organization. The names involved in the deal on a prospect level, particularly Corbin, and the player to be named, give us extreme prospect depth, at a position, left-handed pitcher, that anybody would covet," Arizona interim GM Jerry Dipoto told Nick Piecoro of The Arizona Republic. Dipoto talked a lot about the pitcher win statistic in relation to Joe Saunders and Patrick Corbin while trying to justify the trade.
- Dave Cameron of U.S.S. Mariner tweets that Saunders isn't worth the $6MM or so that he will earn in arbitration next year.
- While some are saying that this move was a salary dump for the D'Backs, Jeff Passan of Yahoo (via Twitter) theorizes that Arizona may like Corbin and Tyler Skaggs more than most.
- Rangers GM Jon Daniels isn't surprised to see the Angels improve their club, writes T.R. Sullivan of MLB.com.
- Fangraphs' Matthew Carruth tried to present Arizona's side of things, but couldn't. He calls the trade "horrendous" for Arizona, even if the club's intention was to dump payroll.
- Zach Sanders of Fangraphs doesn't think that Haren will have trouble adjusting to the American League. The righty had success in the AL pitching for the A's and won't encounter great offense in his return to the AL West.
- The deal could have ramifications for other teams looking to make moves. Dan Connolly of The Baltimore Sun wonders if the deal freed things up to allow the O's to move some of their pieces.
- Acquiring Haren won't help the Angels catch up with the Rangers this season, writes CBSSports.com's Danny Knobler.
- The Halos sent a message to their fans by acquiring Haren, telling their fans that they're not ready to concede anything to Texas, tweets Lyle Spencer of MLB.com.
- "I'm obviously sad to go from here, all the guys and I had a good time here. That said, I'm really excited for the chance to go there and win," Haren told Piecoro.
- Jorge Arangure of ESPN (via Twitter) can't remember seeing a player as excited to be traded as Haren was during his introductory press conference.
- "I like the trade," said Angels outfielder Torii Hunter. "I also like Joe Saunders. But baseball doesn't operate that way; it's a business." (Lyle Spencer of MLB.com reporting).
Torii Hunter: Future GM
“I believe he has a .630 winning percentage in his major league career. “DiPoto on Saunders. I bet John McCain and the other 75 year old Dbacks fans LOVE this trade. “Give us extreme prospect depth”Now he’s just trolling…
As a follow-up.. yes, this is a real quote:
DiPoto: “We achieved by maintaining major league quality with a 2008 All-Star in Joe Saunders and a guy who quite frankly has been one of the winners in Major League Baseball. I think he trails only Roy Halladay among major leaguers in total wins. He’s won 63 percent of his games since coming to the major leagues, pitched in the postseason on two different occasions”
“Roy Halladay only has a greater winning percentage over the last 2 seasons”. -DiPoto
Joe Saunders – the lefty Roy Halladay
For your consideration
Just goes to show you that all of these so called insiders just speculate and really have no better idea of whats going on then the average well informed baseball fan.. I’ve barely heard the Angels names in any Haren rumours, yet they’re the ones that walk away with him.
The pundits have to generate weeks and days of news, the GMs can make all of those weeks and days go away with a last minute change of mind. Kudos to the Angels for being silent but deadly and boo on the DBacks for not leaking out more stuff to see whether they could have attracted a better suitor to the dance.
Some of us Mets fans used to call him “Uh Oh” DiPoto when he was a relief pitcher. I have a feeling Diamondbacks fans will be picking up that torch.
Saunders is a good pitcher (maybe not this year) and will be… but this isn’t just the Angels getting a great pitcher. This is responding to the division rival Rangers getting a great pitcher (Cliff Lee) and keeping the best team in MLB, the Yankees, from getting the same pitcher.
And it’s not a rental, so it’s not like they’re doing this just for this year. I don’t think Haren automatically means we’re gonna catch up with Texas (7 GB in July isn’t absolutely insurmountable), but makes us stronger for the next couple years.
Really, the Angels getting Haren and moving Saunders to the NL is a much better option than standing pat after the Cliff Lee trade and letting the Yankees get Haren, or standing pat and letting the Yankees get Lee next season as a free agent.
Doesn’t help their offensive problem… but the Angels are a better team now than they were before. And for the next couple seasons, they’ll have a great 1-2 in Weaver and Haren, and Morales will be back. They aren’t conceding this season… but are looking forward.
Basically, if Haren were a free agent after this season, no way he’s not on a plane to the Yankees by July 31.
Sorry, the Angels got Haren because they were afraid the Yankees were going to? That’s a cute fallacy… Are the Angels 7 back of the Yankees; in the same division as the Yankees; are they going to sign Cliff Lee in the offseason to stop the Yankees from doing so? Also, Saunders is not a good pitcher and he won’t be moving forward.
That’s the reason the Red Sox and Yankees seem to fight for every single great player available.
And besides, the reason they lost to the Yankees last year: partly because of pitching. Angels didn’t have the great pitching up front to take one of those two games in New York. They couldn’t do anything in that offseason because the Yankees “bought” Teixeira, Sabathia, and Burnett. And this offseason, they’re gonna “buy” Lee if they want him bad enough.
So… you would want the Yankees just to sit on their asses an do nothing with the 80 million that they had come off the books. So if the Angels got CC instead of the Yankees, which he was being suited by, that wouldn’t be considered buying by your standards? Also you may seem to forget that Tex had a horrible offseason and Burnett wasn’t so great either.
But doesn’t EVERY team “buy” the player when then sign him and give him money?
“Saunders is a good pitcher (maybe not this year) and will be…”
His career 5.1 K/9 says otherwise. He’s a 4.50ERA/1.45WHIP guy going forward. 2008 was his career year. He’s a #4 or #5 on an average team.
Joe Saunders is the definition of “innings eater”.
I’ve always thought of him as a lefty Jon Garland.
Wow! Angels and Rangers BOTH beat the Yankees to the aces. Is this a sign? I hear Brian Cashman has his hands tied because of sub-par seasons from Tex, A-Rod, and Granderson, Jeter is showing his age, their rotation is on the verge of being depleted by the end of August…
Angels may be the winners so far because they got an ace who is signed 2 years beyond 2010…
I hate the Yankees as much as the next guy (trust me, I’m a Blue Jays fan) but this post is dumb. Technically, the Yankees beat the Rangers to Cliff Lee.. not Cashman’s fault Jack Z went the other way. I agree that the Yankees should have beaten the Angels’ offer for Haren. BUT, in what possible UNIVERSE are Tex and ARod having bad seasons, especially Mark.
tex- .264/.375/.488 20 hr/70 rbi, gold glove caliber defense..arod-.253/.353/.500 16 hr/81 rbi… yup i’d say the yanks are in some serious trouble…at the end of the day, its just a matter of the yankees not having their backs against the wall to outbid or overpay a) because of phil hughes emerging b) petitte’s great year c) they can sign lee or who ever else they want in the offseason. .. They haven’t really fired on all cylinder’s yet, but remain in first place.
And yet, because of some of those factors (I dunno, have you not notice how much Teix has heated up?), the Yanks remain in first place, and even recently asserted themselves on the second place Rays.
Do let me know where you’ve ‘heard’ this, by the way.
As an Angels fan I was always waiting for Saunders to come back to earth, but after watching him pitch for several years I think succeeds by being a gutsy, smart pitcher. His stuff isn’t spectacular but he’s effective and generally keeps the team in the game. He pitched well during the play-offs last year and never seems to be affected by the pressure. I don’t think the deal is as one sided as some of the press makes it out to be.
I stopped reading at “gutsy”. Was he gritty too?
I’m surprised moxie didn’t make the cut. If I had never laid eyes on Saunders before, I would still know from that comment that he’s white.
He is also quite scrappy.
This deal is so horribly one-sided, I can only imagine what the reactions of rival GMs was. I cannot believe that the D’Backs willingly ended up with this poo-poo platter for Haren. Saunders keeps his team in the game by being incredibly mediocre.
If they’d brought Ray King out of retirement just to trade him to the D’Backs however the deal would have been far more equitable.
Sorry, all scrappy comments are reserved for David Eckstein.
Pedroia?
Wow! Angels and Rangers BOTH beat the Yankees to the aces. Is this a sign? I hear Brian Cashman has his hands tied because of sub-par seasons from Tex, A-Rod, and Granderson, Jeter is showing his age, their rotation is on the verge of being depleted by the end of August…
Angels may be the winners so far because they got an ace who is signed 2 years beyond 2010…
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This comment sucks in so many ways. The Dbacks asked too much from Cashman and he refused to give in. Kuddos to Cashman for knowing where to draw the line. Would I have liked to have Haren on board? Of course, who wouldn’t? Is Joba, and 2 top pitching prospects and an additional prospect + $33 mil in assumed salary too much for Haren. Yes.
As for Arod, Tex, Jeter and Grandy, how would they impact the Yanks ability to make a trade for Haren, especially considering we lose about $30 mil off the books next year?
$30 million including Jeter? Otherwise I would just put that at $10 million.
I was off a little. I thought we had Igawa’s $4 mil coming off. I expect Jeter and Mo to be signed somewhere south of what they make now ($36 mil) and the Yanks are looking at possible retirement for Pettite ($11.75 mil) and probably won’t bring Nick Johnson ($5 mil) and Javier Vazquez back ($11.5 mil).
Savings from new Jeter and Mo contracts = Possibly $5 mil
Possible Pettite retirement = $11.75 mil
Vazquez = $11.5 mil
Nick Johnson = $5 mil
Chan Ho Park = $1.2 mil
Marcus Thames = $1 mil
Gaudin and Mitre = $1.5 mil
That’s about $36 mil roughly then subtract the raises for Cano, Swisher, Grandy and Tex ($7 mil) and subtract Arod’s deal by $1 mil and the net savings is $30 mil to work with on improvements.
Zach Sanders, not Dan Sanders (of FanGraphs). Jeez.
there HAD to be better packages out there
For everyone who complains that Rizzo holds out for too much in trade, remember that it sure beats this.
Diamondbacks fans may want Rizzo back after this one. Nats will keep him, though. Don’t know if he’s but so skilled in the trade market but at least he knows enough about talent to know when the consensus is that he’s getting robbed.
The Rangers have a pretty good offense. Aren’t they in the AL East? haha
The Angels took advantage of a good player having a bad year! Cudos for them to have the forseight to see past his current numbers.
Even with his bad overall numbers, his periphs are up this year (k/9 highest of his career). Great deal for the Angels.
Definitely very cool that the Rangers and Angels are doing what they are doing in order to compete. I’m very satisfied with the results for both teams. I truly believe neither team gave up much. Yes, instead of my Yankees landing either pitcher, I definitely vote these two trades (Lee and Haren) as good for baseball and keeping things competitive throughout the league.
I can’t help but wonder if both GM’s Jack Z and Dipoto are trying to reach beyond their limits. Meaning this, there are a handful of GM’s in baseball that “baseball people” know are the best at what they do. Cashman, likely heads that list and not just because he has the Steinbrenners backing him financially. I wonder if both Jack Z and Dipoto are sending a message, that they are trying to play like big boys, but still sitting at the little table on Thanksgiving. I know this sounds insane. Right? You take the best package available, regardless. While we don’t know the entire extent of what was discussed btw teams over the last few days, we have to imagine there were better options available for the Diamondbacks. This trade for Arizona, doesn’t really provide any organizational depth long term.
I’m still appalled by the Cliff Lee trade more so. That’s going to come back and haunt them for a while. I’m telling you. For a moment is was a case of Epstein syndrome. Well, we have three first basemen already, and I could use some players at…ah forget it, I’ll take one more..While I know that sounds shortsighted considering Branyon is only temporary, the fact that they had the chance to grab a tremendous prospect in Montero at a younger age, is just absurd.
Two trades down and neither has been handled well by the selling team.
As I said I am quite thrilled with the news and not upset in the least bit the Yankees couldn’t participate. They still have Montero, Nova, Betances, Phelps, Romine, Heathcott, and others. They have a tremendous farm and still have more than enough to go sign lee this winter. Would I like to see the Yanks repeat, of course, but once again they are giving me a season of enjoyable winning baseball and if they lose in the playoffs to a team like the Rangers, then the Rangers earned it.
Montero’s going to be a first baseman too.
I am probably alone on this thought, but are the two pitchers that dissimilar? Both 29, both having off years, Haren has an edge on career ERA by half a run and a slighter edge on WHIP, but do the prospects and extra cash spent by the angels make sense? I see Haren with some drop off coming back to the AL. Texas is a beast.
I believe in Jerry Dipoto as a GM if there’s one thing he knows it’s pitching if the other player yet to be named ends up beeing one of those 2 then I fell he made the best possible deal he could, these guys are better than what the Yankees offered and then you have t o also look at the Yankees were not willing to give those prospects up and take on all of Harens contract which several on here a forgetting.
Jerry was about the shed the D-Backs of all of Haren’s Salary while obtaining 4 guys where 2 are top prospects what more could you ask for.
I haven’t heard a single person say they felt the Dbacks got the best deal possible. Now the only unknown is how much of the no-trade came into play into forcing the Dbacks hand.
Not sure why the Brewers didn’t get involved in trading for Haren. Haren/Gallardo sure would have looked nice at the top of the rotation for the next couple seasons. Ah well.
Most times the value of a trade can not be judged for several years. It would not suprise to see saunders have some solid years with the Dbacks at a much lower salary then Harren. Saunders is also talented so again we will have to wait and see.
The D Backs can spin this any way they would like but even in a fantasy baseball league, this trade would be vetoed it is so bad. A true tightly coiled steaming pile of a trade. Glad I am not a D Backs fan… thanks guys for making the other teams in the very average NL West look better than they are.
I think giving up Smoak in exchange for Lee will be determined by how the Rangers do this post season (assuming they make it). Smoak can be a cheap star for 5 years for the M’s and all the Mariners had to give up was 3 months of Lee and 2.5mm.