Five years ago today, the Red Sox acquired Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett in the blockbuster trade that sent Hanley Ramirez to Florida. As I explained a year ago, that deal worked out pretty well for both clubs. Here are today's links…
- Seven American League teams watched Larry Bigbie work out recently, MLBTR has learned. The teams have interest in the 33-year-old as a corner outfielder/DH.
- Jon Heyman of SI.com weighs in on the Derek Jeter contract talks and says the Yankees can't take the chance that Jeter walks out on them, even if it costs them an extra year or a few more million.
- ESPN.com's Jerry Crasnick compares the GM-manager relationships for Chicago's two teams.
- Some baseball people people are convinced that Trevor Hoffman will return to San Diego, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney. The expectation among GMs is that the Padres will trade Heath Bell by next year’s trade deadline.
- The Tigers are still seen as serious bidders for outfielders, according to Olney.
Well at least Hoffman will have a big park to help him keep the ball in the park!
You critics of the Martinez deal are laughable. You forget that he is a lifetime 300 average hitter as well as hitting for power. Duhhhh? Yeah…..
It’s not about Victor’s track record. It’s about where his production and catching ability will be towards the end of the contract. Not saying that it’s a bad deal by any means, but you’re focusing on the wrong part of the argument.
Well, you’re right about where his abilities will be towards the end of his contract. But you could say that about any pitcher in the American leaqgue as well. They are only one dimensional all through their career in the AM.
Too me, if he catches only decently for two years and DHs the last two and hit’s only for average. I would be very happy!
However, I do see you’re point…
And what everyone is failing to comprehend is that he will not be catching full time for the Tigers. Alex Avila is the fulltime catcher with VMart backing him up and lefties if Avila can’t hit them. And his contract was determined by the lack of a free agent market for run producers. Dunn with his .231RISP can go stink it for someone who overvalues him and Crawford while productive has only 1 year of hitting in the 3 hole. And as much as I like Crawford he is way overvalued because of the week class.
Great post and very good points you make! Thank You…
What do you think about the Tigers trading for someone like Zack Greinke or another good slugger type outfielder who is a decent defender?
On the trade front you never know with DD. He could pull off just about anything. However, I don’t see the Royals sending Greinke to the Tigers unless it’s a complete fleecing of Turner/Oliver and a couple other prospects or maybe Raburn and Galaraga thrown in. DD won’t do that as he is getting our lower levels where he wants them. Personally, I thought JUp would have been a great addition for both sides but he has the Tigers on the notrade list. So I see DD going after Werth which I think may be a bad move because his success is in a hitters parks. His away splits are bad and he actually has pretty low RBI #’s for hitting in that stacked Philly lineup. So with that said I think DD will go after Werth but I think he will sign with Boston to stay in a hitters park and then the Tigers will resign Maggs for 1/8-10 incentive deal and possibly go after Pavano. But a suprise trade is never out of the question. Stephen Drew would be nice.
You're Killing Me Smalls
What does this have to do with Fantasy_Theo talking about Hoffman…?
Nothing! I was responding to his comments about the Martinez deal.
Never said I problems with vmart, so im not sure where you got your information. However I am glad the sox didnt sign him to a four year contract, I think it will end up being a bad contract! Duhhhh? Yeah…..
I don’t think any park is that big enough. I guess he could take Gregerson’s 7th inning spot once gregerson and adams move up a slot when Bell is traded.
Martinez is going to look atrocious in 2012-13 splitting time between 1B/DH with Cabrera. If you’re paying $12M for a DH, you should be getting MUCH better production from it.
YAWN. Don’t be scared Twins fan.
Exactly, Detroit has to be able to pitch to win games! Still think the twinkies are the best in that division…especially if morneau stays healthy
I’d take the Tigers rotation going forward over the Twins any day.
So would I. Between Porcello, Verlander, and Scherzer, you’ve got alot more upside. After Liriano, we have #2 upside and #5 downside. You’ve got 3 potential aces.
Trust me, here in MN we’re just hoping that Rick, Justin, and Max remain inconsistent this year, or you guys are going to be very, very tough. God help everyone if all three show consistency their year with the kind of brilliant stuff they’ve shown glimpses of (Verlander is already pretty consistent, but Porcello and Scherzer have only shown flashes of greatness).
I think our rotation is under-estimated, constantly – Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, and Duensing can all be legit #2/3 guys – but you’ve got three who are capable of that Liriano-caliber.
I would tend to put Scherzer into the consistent category. True he was aweful in the first part of the year, and he got send down to AAA in early may. 3 AAA starts later he comes back and for the rest of the year he has a 2.70 era and is averaging about 8K per 9. For most of the year he was the best pitcher on the Tigers staff.
Yeah Scherzer is nasty…He’s my 2011 Cy Young pick. Verlander/Scherzer/Porcello/Oliver is a really good 1-4
and if they can keep that group together for a year or 2, Turner will join that rotation. As if it wasn’t good enough already
My goodness. That could seriously be the best rotation since the A’s great rotation. Definetly better than the Phils.
Don’t know about that but it has the potential to be one of the best in the AL. It would depend on everyone having above average seasons and 1 or 2 guys having outstanding years.
As long as JV can be JV, Porcello figures himself out, Max Scherzer pitches next season the way he did in the second half of ’10 and Oliver can improve on his cup of coffee, should be interesting.
While ERA isn’t the only stat to look at, the Tigers starters had the 4th worse ERA in the AL at 4.46. I’m not familair with Oliver. Was he a highly regarded prospect? Since I’m looking at his stats this year, and while it’s a small sample size, nothing shows me that he was good. Verlander and Scherzer are good. Porcello has potential but he’s a toss up. Reminds me of Ricky Nolasco. Started out great. Had to get sent back down. Their rotation is okay, but its FAR from the best in the AL. It’s probably not even in my top 3. My top 3 are the Rays, A’s and if healthy, possibly the White Sox.Although IF the Yankees sign Cliff Lee and IF Andy Pettite returns and is capable of performing like he did this year, I’d have to put the Yankees in the Top 3. While AJ Burnett is inconsistent, he would probably be a #3 starter on most teams. If the Yankees get Cliff Lee and if Pettitte returns, he’s probably their number 5 starter. If you have a #3 pitcher as your #5 pitcher, something tells me you got a “Prettttty pretttttttty pretty good” rotation.Please note that I capitalized IF lol
Personally, I see Oliver pulling an A. Miller. I think Casey Crosby will get healthy and be in the rotation before Oliver contributes (which I believe will be for another team as I think Oliver is gone in a trade at the winter meetings).
I seriously think that the Tigers/Twins rivalry will be one of the most exciting ones in Baseball next year. Two incredibly different really good teams.
What’s crazy is that when people expect the Tigers to have a great season, they just flat out suck (no offense Tiger fans.) Some “experts” were predicting in the 2007 (or maybe it was 2008) pre-season that they would run away with the Central, except they ended up falling in last place.
Oh yeah, i forgot about Maxxy! He is going to be a stud, I love Verlander but not sold on Porcello yet. And I dont know a lot about their pen. Just chose the twins bc they seem to have decent pitching year in and year out.
The White Sox have the potential to walk away from the division if their starting pitching shows up for an entire season. They might have won the Central by 7 games in 2010, if the rotation hadn’t taken the first half off.
Buehrle-Peavy-Danks-Floyd-Jackson is a good as any team in baseball rolls out.
I agree they have the potential to run away if their pitching shows up for an entire season.
However, I don’t think it’s at all certain their pitching will all show up for an entire season.
Buehrle, as great as he’s been over his career, is in his declining years. Peavy hasn’t been consistent in quite some time. Danks and Floyd are still developing, and could be solid, but unlikely to break out into ace-caliber. Jackson is still so young he’s a bit of a wildcard.
Personally, I think Detroit’s rotation has the best upside. Porcello-Scherzer-Verlander are all ace-caliber potential. They’ve got the same consistency questions, though.
Let’s be honest. Nobody in the AL Central has a sure-thing rotation. We’ve all got major question marks. Detroit and Chicago (in that order) definitely have the best upside, but any of the three could post the best starting ERA and it wouldn’t be terribly surprising.
The chances of any teams pitching showing up for an ENTIRE season is not likely.
I agree with what you’re saying but there are a couple of further points to bring up.
Buehrle has been so consistent over the years…that his inevitable decline, while unavoidable….might be fairly gradual and might not pertain to 2011. It’s not like he’s a flame thrower with a penchant for breaking down.
It also wouldn’t take too much “finding it” for Danks and Floyd to push the rotation over the top. If Floyd spots the curveball it’s lights out.
Peavy is actually the biggest concern. He’ll be out until at least May. After that it’ll be seen whether he can handle the AL. I can’t imagine he’ll be SD Peavy….but he’d be better than trotting out Freddy Garcia every 5 days.
Detroit does have a solid rotation. I just think the sheer numbers Chicago has gives them the advantage on paper. Paper means nothing though. Could be a real 3 team slug fest! Wait a few seasons and it might be 4 with the Royals trying to pull a Twins system on the Central.
I think we’re on the same page.Buehrle isn’t your ace because he’s going to go out there and contend for the Cy – he’s your ace because of his consistency. He can afford for his ERA to tick up a few points every year (like it has for the past few), and still be solid. If he checks in right at about 4.00 ERA this year, that’d be in line with his slow, but steady, uptick.I’m more confident in Danks finding that next level than Floyd – but it wouldn’t be shocking if either did. It also wouldn’t be shocking if they looked much the same as this year. Hence the question marks.I hear you big time on Peavy. Would any of us be surprised if this year is his last gasp before he officially joins the Sheets-Harden club?I’m not too worried about KC. They seem to be having trouble bringing up a rookie class within the same 3-year timeframe. We were able to become contenders by bringing up Hunter/Meintkiewicz/Koskie/Milton/Mays/Guzman all in the same contract window. KC is already losing their most talented player (Grienke) before they can put any impact guys around him. It’ll be 2-steps backwards if they lose Zack, and if/when any of their stud prospects become stars, they could find themselves in the same boat. Unless they can bring up 4-5 of these guys together, and turn the corner on becoming a contender to attract and retain talent that way (not to mention putting fans in the seats and increasing payroll), they’ll continue to be on track to challenge Pittsburg for the losing streak title…
“they’ll continue to be on track to challenge Pittsburg for the losing streak title… ”
Kansas City is only at 7 years straight…Pittsburgh is at 18. Semantically, no challenge there.
Another thing to remember about Buerhle is that he is actually only 30-31 in age. Seems like he’s been around forever. He’s not flashy, but he works extremely fast and saves the bullpen most days….puts the Sox in position to win.
Peavy is certaily worth a try. I wan’t sold on the arms they sent to SD for him….Richard was good…but that ballpark makes flyballs just die.
No doubt the Twins have an incredible organization.
Right. Everyone thinks of Buehrle as mid-30’s, when he’s just entering his 30’s. I don’t doubt his value for a minute. He’s the stopper – able to go out there for 8 good innings every 5th day, and bust up losing streaks.
As for the Twins organization – I think there’s a good bit of anxiety amongst us long-time diehards. Bill Smith hasn’t gained our faith yet – for every Thome signing he goes and trades Ramos for Capps – and we’re in uncharted waters with our payroll. The massive Mauer contract is likely to be an albatross, since we’re paying him for his career-best season – the best the kid can do is live up to the contract, but it will never, ever be a team-friendly deal. Our organizational approach relies on developing young talent (frequently low-profile prospects like Valencia who blossom into very useful players) and replacing guys we lose. We’re nervous the front office is losing that priority as they shift to being a high-spending team. And given the fact that Mauer’s $23M is so massive, our payroll is really only at $75M for the next 8 years – so we don’t have nearly the spending power our payroll would suggest.
I just seem to always read so much chatter about the Tigers and Twins. The Sox always seem to be underestimated. It seems like nearly everyone has predicted doom for them for the past 3-4 seasons, yet Kenny Williams always keeps them in the hunt.
I was shocked they hung around and led the division like they did. That’s how horrible they were during the first 1/3-1/2 of the season. It was pretty much a Rios and Konerko show. They were also getting little pitching. Just makes me wonder where they would have been had they not dug that giant hole to start out with.
Right now it’s to early to tell what players are going to sign where. Makes it hard to predict the Central. MN needs an ace. Wonder if they’d be in for Greinke?
Of course, the Tigers would have been right there in 2010….if they hadn’t been running a MASH unit.
Hey, I’m hoping they give Werth $15M/per as well. The only reason Detroit hasn’t been a consistent contender is you pay guys peak value while they’re entering declining talent years.
If Detroit were to actually make more deals like getting kids like Scherzer, or taking chances on low-cost-high-return options like Thome, they’d be much tougher. If they go into this offseason with huge bucks and come out with a pedestrian DH, a setup man, and Magglio-equivalent RF, they’re nothing to be scared of.
Yeah, VMart is a pedestrian DH, that kills your credibility right there…
He is the worst defensive catcher in the American league that much is for sure
Jorge says thanks
For $12M, you should be getting David Ortiz or Travis Hafner 2006 production at DH. 20 HR at DH is pretty average.
but instead a guy that still is at least capable of playing one of the most starved offensive positions in baseball. Damn wish they were paying Ortiz.
He’s got a negative UZR, and it’s getting worse in recent years. And he’s barely throwing out 20% of base-runners.
He can play catcher, technically, but he’s a liability back there. His bat is very good for a catcher, but nothing to get excited about anywhere else on the field. Theo was pretty smart to avoid paying $12M for that kind of player.
Vic’s 2010 line: 302/351/493 – 23 HR. (year before getting $12M)
Ortiz 2006 line: 287/413/636 – 54 HR. (year before getting $12M)
Again, if you’re looking at paying $12M for a DH, you need to do WAY better than Vic. And if you’re looking for a catcher, you need better defense than Vic. There’s a reason Theo and the saber-intense Boston organization passed on the guy.
There were plenty of other teams willing to pay Victor a little less, as much, or more than the tigers. I suggest you start putting in resumes to clubs. You’re obviously smarter than all of them.
If *anybody* was willing to pay Martinez more, then his agent should be fired.
Some teams may have been willing to go more per year, but it wasn’t for more years. The total contract value that Detroit offered was the highest.
Talk to me in 2012-13. Vic will be your next Magglio. Paying premium dollars for a guy who’s fair market value is only half that price.
I would argue all day the the 3/$48m offer that the White Sox offered was a better deal than the 4/$50m offer from the Tigers but overall I agree with what you are saying. If the Tigers wanted a DH I don’t understand why they didn’t just sign Vlad to a much cheaper, much shorter, and hugely lower risk deal.
True. If the ChiSox reported offer is accurate, that was a better deal on the table.
Keyword: IF that report is accurate. It seems like an outlier to me, I’d be SHOCKED if it were real and he didn’t take it.
I think the thing that goes overlooked for non Tiger fans is we just signed a career 300 hitter who walks almost as much as he strikes out. AND he can hit from the catcher position and play DH and 1B. Comparing him to guys like Papi or Hafner of 06, its the fact for the first since pudge that a catcher can hit and I cant remember a time we had a solid DH. Compare Victor as a DH to the Tigers DH the past couple years and I think that a more fair argument.
He’s certainly an upgrade. But why not get Vlad/Matsui/Thome for a fraction of the cost, and none of the back-end risk on the deal? As far as a DH goes, they’re every bit as effective.
“We’ve made really, really bad decisions in the past at DH” doesn’t seem like a very good justification for making a “bad decision” in the present.
Because it seems we are using him to ease Avila into full time catching if the Tigers are serious about using Avila full time. Also Leyland and DD like players who can play the field, they dont like a full time DH like Vlad, Matsui, or Thome. The only person out of that group who was great last year was Vlad. Thome played well for the Twins but he only in 108 games and had 80 or some hits, his value is with hitting the HR. Martinez played in in 127 games and had almost 50 more hits than Thome. Like I said, it isnt comparing him to other players, its comparing him to what the Tigers have been using. I love Thome but he is DH no matter what, Martinez can rotate three positions. My argument is that we needed a player at one of our weak positions, C, that can hit the ball in spots where we lacked last year. a 300 hitter over lairds mendoza line, or compared to whoever was DHing compared to a 300 hitter. Ill take VMart. It upgrades our lineup and provides flexibility for 2-3 years. And if he cant play the field on the 4 then he can DH fulltime if he can still hit.
Saying Vic is versatile because he can catch is like saying Manny is versatile because he can play left. Technically, yes, they can. Realistically, you cringe when they’re out there.
Speaking of Manny – he could be had for probably half the price, both in dollars and years. And still give you .300 with some pop. Berkman is another option that could be dirt-cheap with .300 upside. DH is just so deep, that it seems odd to pay premium dollars for a guy who is not a premium DH, and is rapidly falling below the defensive mendoza-line (the “Manny line”?).
I get that he’s an upgrade. But it’s like spending $20k to upgrade the bathroom of your house, when it only adds $5k in value to the home. Sure, it’s an improvement – but it’s also economically foolish.
All of those guys you mention dont player catcher. Say we dont sign Vmart, who could possibly play catcher and hit 300. Im not saying you have to be the best at it but compared to last year, we didnt have anyone who could protect Cab once Maggs went down. The only thing I have left to say is that we got someone who can drive in runs, which aside from MCab, no one could consistently. Would you want Lardo or Vmart. Im sorry that your spoiled with the best catcher in the game. But ill take what we can get and there was no one better for our needs than VMart.
Also getting out of the AL east will help Vmart defensively. He doesnt have to face the Crawfords, Uptons, Gardners, Grandersons, or anyone for that matter that can steal a significant amount of bases. Who do we have in the Central that can steal besides Juan Pierre?
Span in MIN
Sizemore (when healthy) in CLE
not as many threats as the AL east but still, its not like its totaly baren
Capable =/= competent. He CAN play catcher, technically, but he’s already well below average there and is expected to be an outright defensive liability by the halfway point of his contract.
Martinez is an excellent offensive catcher, however, once you take Martinez out from behind the dish, he’s suddenly a slightly above average and an outright subpar first baseman (His OPS would rank him 12th out of all qualifiers last year at first base and he’s no Pujols with the glove) who will be taking time away from one of the best offensive 1B in the game.
Martinez for the Tigers wasn’t an AWFUL deal when predicated on the idea he’d be catching full time. Rumors are coming out, though, that he’s anticipated to be a full time DH, part time catcher, which puts it into the realm of a massive overpay in terms of years.
I’ll take a .300, 20+ HR, and 100 RBI’s from any spot in the lineup, thank-you very much… And his defense is not nearly as bad as nay-sayers are trying to make it out to be. If he’s catching only vs. left-handed pitchers as I’ve read, it wont’ be a concern…
What? How does someone only catch against left handed hitters? Do you mean he’ll only catch when the opponent has a lefty starting pitcher?
RBI’s are a useless stat. That kills your credibility right there. .300 average and 20 HR are legit, but again, they’re not worth $12M. You can (and should) do much better than that for that money.
Well you’re team didn’t get him and we’re happy we have him so your opinion is meaningless.
According to Fangraphs, Martinez was worth 16 million last year..:P
Sure. And Nick Punto was worth $7.1M.
Fangraphs’ “value” calculator has been a longstanding joke.
I think you’re just mad because the Twinkies are paying Mauer double per year for virtually the same production as VMart. Look it up. Mauer is a better overall player but the 12 mil extra you’re paying him is way more than the little gaps in production between the two.
Lol how do you have a catcher catch only against left handed hitters? What lineup would have all lefties and switch hitters in it?
elscorcho the marlin
he said left handed PITCHERS. never-mind, he edited it. he did say hitters originally.
the yankees? LOL
20 HR at C is very good. They’re going to let him catch and put up with his terrible defense, at least for this year
Okay, fine, Vmart plays 1B and Cabrera DHs. Vmart is pretty solid at 1B, way more so than Cabrera. Even if the Tigers just bring back Ordonez their lineup is going to be scary. And just imagine what might happen if Boesch found his swing again and was even 80% of what he was when he was hot.
Sorry, I don’t think that’s a particularly scary lineup. Jackson-Ordonez-Martinez are above average, but there’s only one elite threat in there (Miggs). It’s a good lineup, it’s a major league lineup, but it’s not even Top-5 in the AL.
Bos: Pedroia-Youk-Ortiz-Beltre (assuming he comes back)
Tex: Andrus-Hamilton-Cruz-Vlad (assuming he comes back)
Those are all better lineups, given most any metric. For the sake of argument, assume Bos/Tex return Beltre/Vlad, or a similar-producing guy is signed. Then you can start talking fifth-best, and Detroit would be on that list of candidates.
I completely acknowledge that Detroit is improving their offense. It’s going to be better this year. But when you’re talking $12M – you can get alot better impact than a defensively bad catcher / offensively average 1B-DH. Vic is one or the other – he’s a crappy catcher you put up with because he can hit, or he’s a very average DH/1B (really, you should get more than .470 SLG out of 1B/DH). And that doesn’t make sense to me whatsoever, when you’re looking at such a deep DH market.
But, Vmart satisfies what we needed. We need a capable proven bat in the middle of the order to protect cabrera and get hits to drive runner in. Were we looking for a Catcher? no, were we looking for a DH? no. We were looking for a guy to drive in runs after cabrera cause Peralta and Inge as you 5 and 6 hitters aren’t gonna cut it.
Bottom line, we got a guy that fits our needs.
Your forgetting that huge parts of the Twins bullpen may NOT be coming back. After Liriano twins SP they are all 4-5’s if Pavano doesn’t come back. Offense will be potent but pitching could be an issue. Detroit isn’t done adding pecies in November as they will be in trade talks as always. It’s still going to be a 3 team race at the top of the central.
Twins have their question marks, and Detroit will be in the 3-team race. No doubt about any of that.
I’m just saying Detroit would be the *favorite* if they’d avoid putting themselves back into this familiar cycle. They’re just getting out from under Willis/Bonderman/Magglio contracts, and they’re going right back into similar deals (with different names attached).
Willis was a bust, no doubt. Bonderman pitched decent when healthy and was hardly a contract that put us in a big hole. Magglio gave the Tigers some great years, and was well worth his contract…
You are aware you were paying Bonderman $12M for each of the past two years, with a roughly 5.50 ERA, right? That puts you in a hole where I come from.
Magglio had some great years, but the past two years were not. You paid $18M for each of the past two years, for 21 combined HR (305/375/450 average line). That’s a contract any GM attempts to avoid.
The last couple years were a little weak for Maggs. He was dealing with a lot of personal problem in ’09 and was doing fine until he got injured last year. Let’s not forget this guy won a batting title over the course of his contract also, batting .363 with an ops over 1.000 and hitting 54 doubles in 2007. Watching him was worth the price of admission alone that year.
Again. Good player. Fine player to have. But not an $18M player. Whatever his personal/injury issues, you paid him $36M the past 2 years to give you 21 HR, total. Not money well spent.
Tigers didn’t have their crystal ball out when they signed the contract so they could find out what personal struggles lie in the future. Tigers needed to overpay to bring him in to a franchise that had been struggling for 15 years. Just happy we have an owner willing to do that.
Martinez is a converted catcher and doesn’t have the wear and tear on his knees that life-long catchers have. He’s not as likely to break down as early.
My money is on him being able to catch for the vast majority of his contract.
“Multiple sources” disagree, according to Alex Speier. He’s already the worst defensive catcher in the AL. It’s hardly an asset to keep him behind the plate – and when he comes out from back there, he’s an average (at best) 1B or DH.
Pretty smart decision on the sawks part if you ask me. Both Martinez and Salty are risky, but I would rather take the risk that involves losing the least money! I did like vmart though, hope salty can get it together!
least risk least reward.
The bigger picture is, Theo gave up Nick Hagadone and Justin Masterson, and in return got 1.5 years of V-Mart, a 19th overall pick, and a sandwich pick (assuming Detroit doesn’t sign Werth or Crawford). That’s a pretty good return on the investment, regardless of what happens to the catching position in Boston next year.
Sure is. This is the deal that just keeps on giving isn’t it? Hagadone was a tough one to lose, but that #19 pick should hopefully more than make up for it next year in the deepest drat in over a decade. Thanks Tigers.
That’s what I like to hear Buster!
I know it was a smart move not to overpay for V-Mart, but where does the catching help come in for the Sox? I doubt they would want to go with a duo of J-Salt and V-Tek behind the plate. Maybe the can sign an A.J. Pierziensky(spelling), trade for Russell Martin or John Buck?
The Marlins just signed Buck to a three year deal and had a big need at catcher why would they now trade him? Makes no sense. The Sox seem content with Salty as their catcher which baffles me since he is unproven, missed the end of last year with injury, and has had problems throwing a ball back to the pitcher in the not so distant past.
Well John Buck just signed with the Marlins….
russel martin sucks and john buck was just signed, as in, will not be traded.
Uhm.what makes you think the Marlins are gunna trade Buck after they just signed him to a 3 years contract?
Alright folks, I knew John Buck signed with the fish, I just thought the deal was a little unusual for them. I did not know they had a huge need for a backstop. My apologies.
elscorcho the marlin
baker coming off tommy johns surgery, and ronny is suspended for juicing, therefore cut.
Even if they wanted to they would have to wait until the summer. Not going to happen though.
Theo needs his head checked if he believes it’s a good idea to go into the season with Salty as his starting catcher. Buck would have been a great fit, but I’m sure they can find a vet who can play at least half of the games, because I’ve yet to see anything from Salty to prove that he could be a major league catcher. I know it isn’t the flashiest position but they should have a good catcher.
Exactly what I was thinking, Salty has had a few seasons to prove himself, but he hasn’t so far, and now he’s 25 years old. He still has plenty of time to prove himself, but i’m not so sure that Boston will be the right place for him. There’s still better option(imo) on the FA Market than Salty, but theo may not want to give up the draft picks for AJ or maybe even Miguel Olivo.
AJ wasn’t offered arbitration so there would be no loss of draft pick and Olivo is a type B so no loss of a pick there either.
I still feel like the sox are going to go get a proven catcher…Mayber Napoli or Olivo. Well thats what Im hoping for, the thought of salty starting scares me more than anything.
He’s alot like Vic, in that his best asset as a catcher is the fact he can hit. Because it sure isn’t his ability to play the position well…
accept he is younger and throws runners out a bit more. He is pretty good, doesnt have the batting average but I would love to have him, he can get you 25 hrs a year! I liked vmart adn wished we could have kept him, just not at 12 mil per for 4 yrs.
I hear ya. The fact that he’s alot like Vic (minus the average) but alot cheaper is a big advantage.
If the Tigers have V-Mart batting third with Cabrera behind him, and possibly Jayson Werth behind him, V-Marts numbers are going to be insane.
by insane you mean…normal? Bc he isnt going to have a spike in numbers, he did have protection last year and a better park to hit in.
true, look what happened to damon’s offensive numbers once he left that sandbox we call Yankee Stadium and went to Comerica, not saying with will happen to V-Mart but it is something to consider. What’s his career numbers at Comerica, anyway?
“What’s his career numbers at Comerica, anyway? ”
.225/.329/.349 for a .671 OPS. Sample size is a bit small, though, 196 plate appearances.
He also will be facing the visitor’s pitching instead of Tiger’s pitching so that might help some.
Career numbers at Comerica not so good. Your idea about VMart struggling leaving fenway for Comerica holds no ground though. Progressive Field is more of a pitchers park than Comerica and VMart did just fine there.
Something everyone is forgetting when they bring up MArtinez’s career numbers at Comerica. The tigers won 52 games at home last year with a AAAA lineup for most of the year. Bottom line, they FIND WAYS TO WIN AT HOME! They won 52 games with people like Laird, Everett, Kelly, Boesch (up and down), Worth, ect…
So a poor batting average at Copa doesn’t bother me cause they still won with worse hitters.
On the road, they couldn’t hit worth a lick. We need career proven hitters and Vmart is a proven hitter.
…Kevin Cash paging Mr. Epstien… Kevin Cash paging Mr. Epstien… Yoo Hoo, Theo, Oh.. Theo… Where are you…? It’s me, Kevin…
haha, starting backstop for the 2011 RedSox, the fan favorite, Kevin Cash…
I went to Toronto this past summer to see the Sox play. He was one of four players to sign autographs (Kevin Cash, Dustin Richardson, Mike Cameron, and Clay Buchholz). He is a very nice guy, but not such a great hitter.
He would do just fine IMO…if he had a tennis racket and someone to catch for him!
A scout made the general statement that Ryne Sandberg might not be able to handle the pressure of a Wrigley Field clubhouse full of reporters? Somehow Mike Quade has proven he can do that, but a man who put up a Hall career in that same clubhouse can just be written off? Not that it really matters two craps who is on the bench for the Cubs…..but they blew the Sandberg situation.
Sandberg got over it, you should too.
I could care less what the Cubs do…but just listening to their logic is mind boggling.
I’m glad to hear from someone so tight with Ryno…I was wondering how he was taking it.
Ryno’s taking quite nicely, for more detailed info, e-mail him @ LADodgers .com
I think Quade will be very sucessful. He seemed to keep that dugout very loose after taking over.
Allen Trammell, the tigers perennial hall of fame snub didn’t work out so well as manager. How good a guy is as a player has no bearing on how good he will be as a manager.
Yeah, I totally agree…it just appeared that they had Sandberg lugging it out in the low minors and all the way to AAA as the heir apparent to Pinella.
Wonder what their evaluations of him said..
Heyman is deadwrong. The Yankees realized the A-Rod contract was a mistake and do not want to do the same with Jeter. Besides if Jeter walks, he will only ruin his legacy and only have himself to blame.
Heyman’s wrong— yeah they can. They have to do their due dilligence in bringing him back. They did that, and offered him a way above market contract.
Its the Yankees’ job to win baseball games, not placate old stars.
When all is said and done, in about 10 years, he’ll be going into the HOF first ballot as a Yankee anyway, regardless of what happens with the last few years of his career. This has no effect on legacy beyond the next 2 years or so.
Couldn’t agree more. I’m actually really surprised Cashman is taking the approach with Jeter he is – because it just makes too much SENSE. Cashman is on-point. He’s offering Jeter way above market already.
If Jeter walks, the Yankees revenue isn’t going to plummet. Their fans will revolt much quicker if they start having losing seasons because even the Yankees can’t afford big overpays on A-Rod and Jeter.
The bottom line is fans want a winner. They’re quick to forgive a front office when the team wins. And when the team loses, “fan favorites” quickly become scapegoats. I promise you Yankee fans would trade Jeter for another WS appearance in a heartbeat.
No player is so important to a team that they can’t afford to part ways.
Check out Nate Silver’s article on “Jeter’s Predictable Predicament.”
He points out that Jeter is WORTH that premium to the Yanks, but not to ANY other team out there. “Jeter in a Yankees Uniform” is a moneymaking statement. “Jeter in a Pirates Jersey” isn’t…although that’s a funny visual…
So yea, the Yankees can (and probably should) overpay him slightly. But not to the degree that he’s demanding. They hold all the leverage in this situation, because he really can’t go anywhere else and get that “value added” salary…
Yanks should offer Adrian Beltre a 5/64 deal and move ARod back to SS. This improves the Yankees offensively and defensively.
All the news about Jeter’s salary is just a smoke screen to hide the real issue as far as the Yankees are concerned. The real issue with the contract is that the Yankees don’t feel that Jeter should play SS for the next 3 years. They would prefer that he play there for maybe 2 years and give the position to Eduardo Nunez, move to third and have A-Rod take the DH spot full time. But they cannot propose that now, so they’re making the money issue a sticking point instead. Really, when does money play such an important part in negotiations with NY, when they really want a player?
They are ready to give Cliff Lee $23MM a year for 5 or 6 years and are balking at $18 a year for Jeter? Nonsense!
The real deal here is that the Yankees will give Jeter want he wants, in terms of money but he will have to ‘compromise’ in terms of years by signing for 3 years with a club option for the forth year and a buyout clause. In this manner, Jeter gets the money and the Yankees can get him out of SS after two years. Jeter is not going to walk away from the Yankees and they would never allow it either.
All this serves to only sell the Yankees and Jeter brand to the public.
Multiple Red Sox sources tell Alex Speier of WEEI.com that they doubt Victor Martinez will remain a viable catcher for more than two seasons.
This is typical of the Red Sox. Once the player leaves for greener patures, the smear campaign begins.
isn’t that pretty much every team?
Looks like the Yanks aren’t waiting for Jeter to leave to do the same.
Its not just the Red Sox, many people think he will be a DH/1b in a few years.
thats ok if he becomes a DH,the sox still blow. but anyway the tigers need a big bat DH , I dont think carlos can fill that position. Sorry carlos.
The Sox almost made the playoffs last year, even though some of their best players spent a lot of time on the dl…they def blow…
I really doubt that the Tigers get into a bidding war on werth-Crawford maybe but I highly doubt that they seriously pursue either if them.
I see a salary trade for a big bat outfielder like Bay to be much more likely than a FA signing for the tigers.
I kind of feel a trade is more likely too. DD can’t go a full offseason without a big trade.
Right??? I’m stunned we didn’t have more chitter-chatter coming out of the winter meetings. DD just can’t help himself when it comes to blockbusters. I’m telling ya, if the Mets are selling, Bay makes sense on a lot levels. He would cost almost nothing due to his stupid contract, he’s in LF and there are more than a few kids like raburn and boesch or even Mags(if he resigns) that can play RF, and the Tigers are one of a few teams that would willing to take in his salary. Plus this falls right into DDs category of “big trade” that gets him hard. He hates free agents and so by his standards, he’s already signed too many. There’s a trade a-brewin’ in Detroit and I’m almost sure it’s gonna be for a hard hitting outfielder.
Red Sox sources speaking ill of a departing free agent!? Impossible!
The Sox should re-sign Tek to a 1 year deal and let him catch against lefties. Salty, Tek, a 1st round pick, and 40+ million dollars > Martinez.
Foolishness has started with the Boston media about the Sox going after Jeter. Jeter has the same stats as Marco Scutaro and Scutaro is costing less than 1/3 of what Jeter would cost. Totally irresponsible.
LOL Trevor Hoffman is a great human being, but his effectiveness as a pitcher is seriously questionable–especially as a closer, which Hoffman wants to be. Emotions don’t win games, but hey, I’m a Brewer’s fan, so more power to the Padres.