The Yankees agreed to sign Rafael Soriano to a three-year deal that guarantees the right-hander $35MM. The Bronx Bombers don't get much of a guarantee from Soriano, who can opt out after year one or year two. The deal sends a first round pick from the Yankees to the Rays and gives the Yankees a pair of shutdown relievers in closer Mariano Rivera and Soriano. Here are some reactions to the deal between the Yanks and the Scott Boras client with the latest reactions up top:
- ESPN.com's Keith Law points out that the Yankees gave Soriano tons of leverage. It's "a baffling scenario" from the Yankees' perspective, Law writes.
- The Soriano deal was more ownership-driven than from baseball operations, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney (Twitter links). The team's front office was split on the prospect of signing Soriano. WEEI.com's Alex Speier notes that the Soriano signing seems to contradict Cashman's year-old opinion about relief contracts.
- The Yankees had talked about signing Grant Balfour in a possible sign-and-trade before Soriano and Balfour agreed to their respective deals, according to Olney.
- Olney suggests there’s a “major divide of opinion on Soriano within the organization, and that [GM Brian] Cashman's autonomy in matters of baseball operations may have eroded.” Olney points out that the Yankees now have two of the six relievers in baseball who earn $10MM or more.
- Brian MacPherson of the Providence Journal feels it's hard to properly judge the Soriano contract since "the Yankees operate on a completely different economic scale from the rest of baseball and can't be used as a comparison point for anything."
- Tom Verducci of SI.com calls the deal a "smart" one for the Yankees and points out that it doesn't change the way they do business.
- As Ben Shpigel of the New York Times points out, the Yankees expect the signing to take pressure off of their thin rotation.
- Kevin Kernan of the New York Post argues that the deal saved the offseason for Cashman.
- Chad Jennings of the Journal News explains that the deal makes the Yankees better short-term, but not necessarily a lot better.
- Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald explores what the deal means for the Red Sox. They will be tough to beat late in games, they'll definitely obtain the Rangers' first rounder for the loss of Adrian Beltre and Jonathan Papelbon could have trouble finding a massive deal in free agency after the season.
- FanGraphs' Chris Cwik says "it’s tough to defend any team that gives out such a large contract to a relief pitcher and this instance is no different."
- My reaction has less to do with the Yankees and Soriano and more to do with Boras. How did Boras get a $35MM guarantee plus two opt-outs for his client in a market that was, by all accounts, pretty dry? It's been a standout offseason for baseball's best-known agent.
Ok, I can’t read the Olney article, but he seems to be suggesting that this deal was made over Cashman’s concerns. Can anyone confirm this?
Bob Klapisch suggests the same thing. But at this point it’s only speculation. We’ll probably hear more much later.
Yeah, it’s always speculation. But the thing is this is a pretty player friendly contract for a player who didn’t seem to have a lot of bidders. And before people attack me for calling this a bad signing, that’s not my argument. I just find the contract to be a bit strange. It’s paying him like a closer and allows him to walk whenever he chooses.
Without knowing who else was in on him, and how serious any other bidders may have been, I’m not overly concerned with them paying him like a closer. But allowing him to walk whenever he wants is really, really odd in my opinion.
However, if he walks, in all likelihood they will get their 1st rounder back…
not to mention he could accept arbitration and get even more money
Arbitration is based on player performance and value. You think he will get a raise from $10M as a set up man? There’s always a possibility, but I highly doubt it. The only way I really see it happening is if Mo gets hurt and Soriano is the savior, in which case, he deserves Yankee closer money anyway and the draft pick will be the least of their worries.
Arbitration is strictly performance based, and is designed to give players raises. The only way he wouldn’t get a raise is if he was absolutely awful or injured, in which case he wouldn’t opt out of his contract to begin with.
I’m not saying I agree with the process, but that is just the way it is.
Arbitration is based on player performance and value. You think he will get a raise from $10M as a set up man? There’s always a possibility, but I highly doubt it. The only way I really see it happening is if Mo gets hurt and Soriano is the savior, in which case, he deserves Yankee closer money anyway and the draft pick will be the least of their worries.
Is there any indication who might be overriding Cashman? I guess it might be Hank (pure speculation). At least that seemed to the case with the A-Rod signing.
At this point, it can’t be only Hank. Hal and the rest of Yankees brass has Hank in his playpen most of the year and only open the door once of twice for him to quench his need open his mouth. Hank could well have been involved (since it involves his money), but Hal and/or Levine would have had to had play a big part in this deal if any pressure from above Cashman wanted this deal done.
I’m positive these deals were inked from the power Boras gained for selling his soul to the devil.
Boras has a soul?
HAD. Read above.
“My reaction has less to do with the Yankees and Soriano and more to do with Boras. How did Boras get a $35MM guarantee plus two opt-outs for his client in a market that was, by all accounts, pretty dry? It’s been a standout offseason for baseball’s best-known agent.”
He must have pictures of Cashman …
Joking aside, how can anyone think the opt-outs are good for the Yanks? Boras has all the leverage here and he’s no dummy. This is a guy that got $126 mil for Werth and $35 mil for Soriano when his market was seemingly non-existent. I hate him, but he’s not stupid. The only way Boras would use the opt-out would be if Soriano has a great season, Mariano gets hurt at the end of the season, AND the new CBA somehow eliminates compensation for type A relievers
I’m quite certain there would be no compensation for the Yankees if Soriano opted out and went back to the open market after 2011 or 2012.
Why wouldn’t the Yanks get compensated for Soriano, alikely Type A, if he re-enters into FA next year?
Because the Yankees would be given a chance to offer arbitration if he’s just refusing a player option. Granted, I’m making an educated guess at the contract language Boras negotiated for…
A declined option does not preclude an arbitration offer. Adrian Beltre (Also a Boras client) had a $10 million player option this year and the Red Sox were still able to offer him arbitration when he declined.
To my knowledge, Soriano will be in the same position next year as he was this year. Any CBA changes next year would not likely effect the 2011/2012 offseason. I have to imagine he would be very unlikely to opt out next year unless Rivera retires AND Soriano puts up phenomenal numbers.
Unless the contract states that they CAN’T offer arbitration then of course they can get compensation. The Blue Jays offered AJ arb when he opted out and was signed by the Yanks so it’s the exact same case unless it stated in the contract.
Right. And I’m speculating the contract may have language prohibiting an offer.
If it did/does, we would have either already heard about it, or will hear about it very soon.
-ECB
I think one of the many big flaws in the current CBA is the draft pick compensation for relievers, It kills their value. Especially for strong middle relievers, teams are extremely hesitant to sacrifice a first round pick for a set up man. After the year ends I am very confident that they will address this problem and eliminate the A/B free agent for middle relievers. Which in return will hurt the Yankees because if he does opt out they wont be getting a pick for him signing elsewhere
oh and I want to add I am YanksFanSince78Fan. Love the comments man. You know Pavano writes on these forums? His username is Carl Pavano. As much as I hate him as a Yankee fan its cool to see their opinions and he responds to comments too.
Wait. That’s actually Carl Pavano? How do you know it’s not just someone else who made up the user ID? I mean I have seen Devern_Hansack and Kei_Igawa too.
That’s definitely Kei Igawa posting.
click his name he has his twitter listed. Its him. And Kei Igawa speaks english ? lol
I am not actually Devern Hansack. I just love the guy for his 6 inning no-no.
What became of him anyway?
What became of him anyway?
That wasn’t exactly a big accomplishment for Hansack, he was facing a 70-91 Orioles team on the last day of the regular season. Combine that with the brutal playing conditions (rainy & cold) and the 7-run Sox lead after 3 innings, the Orioles just wanted to get out of there as fast as possible.
BTW it was five hitless innings, not six :o)
Wait. That’s actually Carl Pavano? How do you know it’s not just someone else who made up the user ID? I mean I have seen Devern_Hansack and Kei_Igawa too.
Thank you sir.
Pavano has plenty of time to blog with his injury track record.
Because the only way Boras would call for the opt-out would be if the new CBA eliminates compensation for type A relievers. Otherwise Boras would be seriously overplaying his hand, which is possible, but not likely.
I’m not so sure. If he has a great year, I could definitely see him opting out in order to allow a Yankees/Red Sox bidding war to take place if Papelban does become a FA. Stranger things have happened. Look what happened when Arod opted out…
That’s assuming that the new CBA doesn’t get rid of free agent compensation.
You think he’d get Type A status as a set up guy?
As long as he performs well yes. Balfor and Downs were Type A middle guys.
As long as he performs well yes. Balfor and Downs were Type A middle guys.
Werth got that money because the Nats offered it, what was boras supposed to say? no? H e never ask for that amount. Also, having Soriano will have a greater impact than most people think.
“Also, having Soriano will have a greater impact than most people think.”
What does Soriano’s impact have to do with the job Boras did to get him that money in a dry market?
who else was in on soriano? How do the Yankees spend 35 million WITH the opt out B/S when no body else was heavily involved in discussions with him !!
Whats the point of having a great pen if your rotation struggles?
This pen is going to get worked so hard next year
CC- unbelievable pitching. but got tired last year, if you dont believe me check out his september stats, and he pitched just as bad in the post season. From what happened last year CC is no longer the 250 inning 3 days rest workhorse anymore.
AJ- honestly, AJ next year is ___________________ i really dont know. But I know he will have his month stretch where he doesnt get out of the 5th.
Nova/Mitre- You cant count on him going to the 7th, when we use our opening day 4th and 5th starters the pen is going to get abused ! Over using your pen just ruins them and they pitch like crap see 08 Yanks.
Cash is not stupid, he knows that this will happen to the pen next year. Thats why he signed durable people like Felciano. Let me edit that, he signed the most durable reliever in baseball.
“Kevin Kernan of the New York Post argues that the deal saved the offseason for Cashman.”
LOL
Do you people even read the story or just headlines ?? The Yankees are the ones who put the opt clauses in not Boras !
LOL. That would be beyond stupid …
read the article…Yankees wanted the opt clauses not him…their not sure he can be comfortable pitching in NY is why they were put in
Soooo…they’re counting on him to opt out if he can’t handle the pressure and go seek less money elsewhere? Makes sense to me…
I see absolutely no incentive for the Yankees to offer him those opt outs unless it was the only way he wouldn’t seek a no-arbitration offer clause, especially at that money.
The only way (and I think the opt-outs are stupid) I see the opt-outs working for the Yankees is if he does excellent. Then he may opt out for more money, net the Yankees a pick back and allow them more salary room.
For the Yankees, it’s an acknowledgment that this guy is really optional to the overall future success of the team. Do great for us?? Sweet. Go away to make more money, and we’ll spend this cash elsewhere on our bigger needs, which cannot be filled by the superstar tier of the free agent market at this time.
Of course, none of this covers their ass if he does poorly, which is why it is a horrible move on their part. Basically, they had the money available and they wanted to spend a chunk of it to fill a current need, but Soriano wasn’t going to sign a 1-year deal. This was the poorly thought-out compromise.
-C
You acknowledge the scenarios of Soriano being successful but I don’t agree with your conclusion if he does poorly.
The Yanks are screwed in ANY situation where Soriano suffers an injury. If he’s signed to a “normal” contract w/ no opt outs and gets hurt then the Yanks are screwed because his years are guaranteed. Under the current contract, if he suffers an injury he’ll decide to stay. Same result either way.
So if your worst case scenario causes the same result (paying an injured player) and the best case scenario is him having a great 2011 and then leaving, netting the Yanks a 1st rnd pick and freeing up cash works for the Yanks and allowing Soriano a shot at more money on the market then it doesn’t matter one way or the other. The only way the Yanks would be hurt is because they gave up a 1st rnd pick for 1 year of his service and that isn’t exactly a horrible situation when you consider what most teams give up for a 1 year rental of a superstar now a days.
Way too much money. 2/15 maybe but 3/35 is absurd for a reliever who isn’t even your closer. And having a great 8th inning pitcher is not going to “take pressure off” guys like Sergio Mitre who will struggle to finish 6.
this deal to me proves Soriano was after the $$$ (not that there’s anything wrong with that)
The report of him being willing to consider a bullpen catcher’s job if it meant the most money didn’t do that for you?
But it won’t force CC and Hughes to have to go 7-8 innings each time
true…itll be interesting to see how Soriano fairs in this role…im assuming he’ll have several more innings logged than last year since he’ll probably be used in both save and non save situations
Wasted money for a volatile role.
Wasted money for a volatile role.
Either Cashman’s earlier statement was a negotiation ploy/head-fake, or Hal and Hank overruled him here. Its definitely going to be interesting to learn which avenue is the truth. The Cashman statement (that Type-A status would bar him signing Soriano) was so ill-advised, vis-a-vis the CBA and Union, that it was foolish on its face. So, that leads me to believe this was a negotiation ploy. Cashman is no fool.
I don’t know about that. I’m starting to wonder about Cashman lately. A few things this offseason were very strange to me. The most peculiar was when he was hanging off the side of a building the day before the biggest day of the year for him. I would have liked to see him do that if George was still alive.
I think paying him like a closer was the only way he was going to accept a set-up role.
Brian “Cash Man” proves once again that without deep pockets from the Steinbrenners, he has no idea how to be creative, let alone work within a budget. Failed miserably with Cliff Lee (probably still in shock that his big money deal didn’t get Lee inked), failed with Pettite, let the Red Sox receive much media attention this winter, failed with his credibility (we will not surrender a first round pick), and panicked when dealing with Nora’s. Put this clown with the pirates or royals and cashman would go down as one of the worst GM’s ever. Take away the Yankees cash and the “Cashman” has zero ideas on how to be creative. He’s absolutely horrible. Giving Boras 3 years/35 million AND an out after a year is pitiful. Yankees will probably sign Manny next just because they can.
i’m pretty sure if any GM had the money to spend Cashman has they would do 99% of things Cashman does anyway
He’s not a bad GM, he’s just in an organization that demands the best players possible. Why would he need to be creative when he doesnt have to be?
My point exactly. His biggest problems are with the decisions he has made when signing pitchers. Javier twice, Pavano, Wright, Igawa, Johnson. I mean Gene Micheals left him a great team and he’s destroyed it with bad signing after bad signing. Look at that Starting 5 this year…total crap.
How did he “fail miserably” with Cliff Lee? What was he supposed to do, change Lee’s mind? And how did he fail with Pettitte?
I have a question? How does it feel to say things that make no sense? I mean to just spew idioticity into the world for all to read?
Lee made a choice to go to Philly. Other than throwing $175 mil at him, I’m not sure what Cashman could’ve done.
Pettitte made a choice he didn’t want to pitch for anyone. Other than offering him $20 mil I’m not sure what he could’ve done to draw him away from his family. Honestly, if the guy doesn’t have the desire to pitch then why would you want him to do it just for the money?
Cashman can’t control what the Red Sox do or don’t do therefor he can’t control how much media attention they get. In fact, Cashman knows better than to do things JUST to do try and battle for headlines, and that would’ve been a far worse thing to do than to do little.
Who the heck is Nora?
He’s absolutely horrible but yet his teams have averaged 95 + wins for the last 10 years, he has transformed the farm into a productive system since taking over in 2005 and his team was 2 victories away from returning to the WS in 2010. Horrible.
Cashman inherited a dynasty team that won WS his first three years which would have won without him. And in the last decade he went 1-10. Despite spending more than any team in the history of the sport.
Are you happy not having a parade but once a decade?
A GMs job is not to pitch or hit in the clutch. If your ace pitcher goes belly up in the post season, your closer who has been magnicent 99% of the time gives up a HR vs Luis Gonzales, your team squanders a 3-0 lead vs the Red Sox and guys like Arod and other forget how to hit then that blame doesn’t lay at the GM’s feet.
I don’t consider myself to be smarter than anyone but I am smart enough to know that any team so well constructed enough to win an average of 95+ games per year and then fails in the post-season to do all the things that made them successful then the blame is more on those on the field than those in the front office.
An example of a poor GM that doesn’t come close to getting “bang for buck” would be the Mets and Tigers from the last few years when they weren’t even playoff teams.
Say what you want about Cashman, and I am NOT calling him a genius or the best by any stretch, but he does an EXCELLENT job
at fielding strong playoff contenders YEAR END, YEAR OUT in perhaps the ONLY market where anything less than a WS parade is considered a failure. MAYBE….MAYBE the Red Sox are the only other team with that mandate. If the Phillies win 1 or 2 WS over the next 5 years and then they decide to blow the team up and rebuild I GUARANTEE you there will not be as much of an uproar in Philly as there would be if the Yanks thought to do the same thing and if you can’t see the difference then I can’t have this conversation with you because you don’t understand the dynamics of NY sports and the Yankees.
Think of it this way. Cashman fielded a WS champ in 2009 and the same team came w/in 2 games of returning to the WS last year. He’s built a great farm 2 years in the last 8 that ranked around 5-8 despite not having a top 20 pick in over a decade and ppl are calling for his head because he didn’t sign Cliff Lee or Carl Crawford despite having offered Lee $148 mil reasons to come to NY and despite having one of the best young LF’ers in baseball who made $400k last year.
Most GM’s don’t have $200 mil to spend but most GM’s don’t also have the mandate of going to the WS every year. There’s a cost to sustained success that only 3 or 4 other teams might understand.
Nice post.
Most GMs don’t have a mandate to win a WS every year because NO OTHER GM has a $200m payroll.
You may not consider yourself smarter than anyone but I bet you are smart enough that if you were GM of the Yankees they would have won more than 1 championship in the last 10 years.
Supposed to be Boras, not Nora’s. Droid correction.
I LOVE your dad Vincent K. McMahon
Dude….that was funny. About time someone noticed.
I don’t want you to think I am a Cashman fan. I think he has done some good things and some bad things. If you catch me in the right mood I could probably rip him better than you, but I must say this- one of the most creative things I have seen was getting rodriguez who was a shortstop at the time and made him the third baseman.
He was getting traded to the Yankees so he knew there was a pretty good chance he would have been getting a WS ring at some point in his career. He also knew Jeter wasn’t going anytime soon and he was getting paid a ton of money. Going from worst to first I think if Cashman would’ve said you’re going to be the Bat Boy I think A-Rod would have done it. Plus the Orioles moved Ripken from SS to 3B not long before so it’s not like it was a real shocker for a player to do that.
But maybe the Yankees would have won more WS if he had actually done his GM job and told Jeter that he was now going to be playing 3rd because Arod was the better SS. Just my opinion but I wouldn’t exactly say that was a success story.
I don’t know why everyone is so concerned with the money. The yankees print the stuff, it means nothing to them.
The opt outs really doesn’t make sense for the player because unless teams pay for holds he will not get more than the 11.75 he gets from the Yankees. I believe the amount he will be paid is about right. The Angels were probably at 3/30. The Yankees bullpen is balanced and this will help.
The Angels? Really?
So what does this mean for Joba? If Soriano is setting up Rivera, does Chamberlain get busted down to long reliever?
Maybe try him again as a starter, especially if Petitte retires.
I don’t think they will, but it wouldn’t be a terrible idea
Joba and Robertson will compete for the 7th inning role in the Grapefruit League. Spring Training should be interesting for you Yankees fans.
Am I the only one who has more confidence in Joba as a starter than I do in Mitre as a starter?
– ECB
I join you in those thoughts sir. I would be more inclined to have him pitch 8 to 10 games in AAA first though.
I hate to admit it but as of right now with what we have to work with today- Joba to the fourth or fifth slot in the rotation might not be such a bad idea. Let him try and turn his career around. After all this kid was not supposed to be a relief pitcher he was supposed to be a starter. I know people are going to say he isn’t even good, he can’t be a starter again. To hell with all the negs out there. I think he could do it, he’s still young, he did pitch very well in the second half of the season, and I think he can be just as good as anyone else they could sign right now as a starter. However 8 or 10 games in AAA is not going to do anything for him. It will only make the transition harder for everyone.
After all there is nothing that he could learn at this point in AAA that will make him a better pitcher. I think the most important thing is that if he wants to be a starter or not so he doesn’t feel like he getting jerked again. I personally think he would want to start but I could be wrong. I can’t imagine he really wants to be a relief pitcher.
I actually agree. Dollars to donuts says the Yankees stretch him out in spring training. He’s a much better option than anything out there right now, unless Cashman takes a flier on Chris Young.
Am I the only one who has more confidence in Joba as a starter than I do in Mitre as a starter?
– ECB
You people whining about not getting Lee i`m glad your not my GM ! You complain they paid too much for Soriano when they really have no choice…Didnt matter when they signed him they were still having to pay top $$$..They needed to do something to shorten up games with that starting rotation they have…Dont believe Pettitte would`ve saved the Yankees either.He wont have another year like he did the 1st half of the season..Yanks need another back end started and bench player and they`ll be fine..AJ will not pitch like he did last season i`ll bet my house on that ! ESPN has everyone thinking Bostons pitching is out of this world and their going to run away with the AL East…Wont happen their rotation is no better than the Yankees is at this point.Bullpen..I give the edge to the Yankees…Going to be an interesting year in the AL East !
While the Red Sox have question marks in their rotation, it is way better than that of the Yankees. The Red Sox have Lester, Buchholz, Beckett, Lackey, Dice-K as the starting 5. While the last 3 might have questions surrounding them they are better than the Yankees back 3 of AJ, Nova and nobody. And it isn’t just the pitching that has Boston being the favourite to win the AL East it’s the lineup of:
Ellsbury
Pedroia
Crawford
Gonzalez
Youkilis
Ortiz
Drew
Salty
Scutaro/Lowrie
that has them favourites. And even with all of the injuries the Red Sox had last season they were second in the majors in runs scored and then added two impact bats. Therefore, I would give the edge to the Red Sox.
As for the addition of Soriano, I hope for what they are paying him he can be a decent #5 starter on the days he isn’t relieving.
I’ll give you a slight edge with gonzo over tex and crawford over gardner (but not for the $), but at every other position the yanks have the edge.
Well you can take whatever you want but the Red Sox only got half years from Pedroia and Youk and nothing from Ellsbury or Cameron and down year from Drew. I don’t expect much from Drew or Cameron but the other three are bound to be better than the replacements the Red Sox had for them and as I said STILL were second in runs in the major leagues. Plus when you add in the very, very strong offense of the Red Sox with the superior pitching you have the AL East winners(on paper right now).
I keep banging my head up agains a wall. The Sox made two great acquisitions in CC and AGonz. However, the deals were great not because either of the two will exceed the hitting provided by Beltre, VMart and Hall but because they are more projectable over the next 5 years than those two were. It’s likely that, with the exception of SB, they will only equal the production of what they got from Beltre, Vmart and Hall last year. The greater impact they will see is from having healthy guys for all of 2011.
But don’t count the Yankees lineup out either. They led baseball in runs scored by a +41 despite having off years from Arod, Jeter, Tex, Posada and Granderson. Subtract Thames from last year, move Posada to DH full time and add Martin, Montero and hopefully some bounce backs from a couple of those guys and we can have a stronger lineup this year.
As I said above, we may have only replaced the short-term offence with Crawford and A-Gon but you are forgetting full years from Pedroia, Ellsbury and Youkilis and maybe a new, better offensive year from Lowrie as the starting SS by the end of the year. The addition of their offense over the people who replaced them will be very big.
And I was no way putting down the Yankees offense, I mean the Red Sox finished second to the Yankees for goodness sake! And I have no doubt your offence will be as good if not a bit better with rebound years from your big guys. The main difference is the better pitching staff in general of the Red Sox due to the lack of established/reliable starters on the back end of the Yankees staff.
How did I forget that when I said “The greater impact they will see is from having healthy guys for all of 2011”. I think healthy years from those injured in 2010 will have a greater impact than CC and AG will, aside from the SB differential.
Damnation. How did I miss that. Sorry! But I still think they are better upgrades than you give them credit for. But we could argue that forever.
The SB improvement is an obvious advantage. However, if Agonz hits 40 hrs and CC hits 25 then they would equal what was lost from Beltre, VMart and Hall. The major advantage of CC and Agonz over Beltre, VMart and Hall is that Theo would’ve been stupid to assume that those three would’ve repeated their 2010 performance again in 2011 or after. That is the inte..intellig..(I can’t even get myself to say it)..that is what I give Theo credit for. He didn’t get suckered in to thinking that Beltre was going to be the same guy in 2011.
So aside from CC and Ells being healthy and running like rabbits, I’m much more concerned about Pedroai and Youks being healthy than I am of the new additions.
PS- I do think Theo is a very sharp GM.
Thank you for that reasonable post, so the fighting can stop. Theo and Brian are both really good Gm’s, even though i’m a Red Sox fan, I like cashman better because of his experience and he is very good in the draft
Fangraphs War 2007-2010 has the Yanks better in 6 positions. Some are close but 3 are not. Martin over Salty, Jeter over Scuturo, and Granderson over Ellsbury. The Yanks scored the most runs last year so they are still better than the Sox. The pitching of the Yankees will be better than last year with AJ, Hughes, having better years and Nova being better than Vasquez. The Sox pitching should also be better than last year. It might come down to the relief which with the addition of Soriano would go to the Yanks.
You’re disturbingly optimistic, Not doubting the chance of an AJ bounce back but I wouldn’t dare count on it. after Starters 1 and 2 the Red Sox run away with it and they too have a very solid bullpen. Frankly in terms of the AL East this year I’ll give it to whoever stays healthiest.
Re: Opt out clause. How do the arbitration rules work for a player who opts out of a contract? If Soriano opts out next year, can the Yankees offer him arbitration? If so I’d bet the Yankees and Boras have a hand shake agreement that Soriano will opt out next year if he stays healthy and decline arbitration. If he signs elsewhere, the Yankees recover the draft pick (50% chance it’s a better pick than this year) and will also get a sandwich round pick. If Boras can’t find a better deal, the Yankees will resign Soriano for essentially the remaining 2 years of the contract. The only risk for the Yankees would be the first year of the contract….. a $23.5 million risk.
That’s what I was wondering too.
wow, im not kidding your the first person in these comments to break ground on WHY?
IF they had a gentlemans agreement to opt out/decline arb. (which is a strong IF) Than they would receive 2 picks in next years first 50 or so. as opposed to 1 pick in a strong draft class in 31st.
You know in cartoons where a light bulb goes over someones head. That just happened… lol. yanks get a full year of sorianos services and 2 picks next year if they had the gentlemans agreement.
Except that the CBA is up for re-negotiation this year, and this (2011) could well be the last draft where there is compensation for losing a Type-A player.
I doubt that the new CBA will effect next season at all. That’s usually not how they negotiate things (for them to go into effect immediately).
wow, im not kidding your the first person in these comments to break ground on WHY?
IF they had a gentlemans agreement to opt out/decline arb. (which is a strong IF) Than they would receive 2 picks in next years first 50 or so. as opposed to 1 pick in a strong draft class in 31st.
You know in cartoons where a light bulb goes over someones head. That just happened… lol. yanks get a full year of sorianos services and 2 picks next year if they had the gentlemans agreement.
The money is meaningless in the context of NY revenue. Soriano was quite possibly the best closer in the league for 2010 so having him in the 8th or insurance for the 9th is a smart move. Now Joba can return to the rotation if need arises. This should be another year where Boston or NY get bragging rights – a division title – while the “loser” becomes the WC.
Cashman already said Joba not going back in the rotation. He specifically cited the noticable loss of velocity when he’s starting as the reason. I think more likely they sign some one like Duchscherer to fill out the rotation and upgrade as needed at the deadline. They really need someone. AJ and Nova are ??? and Mitre is just plain bad…
Who knows, maybe they build a trade around Joba plus prospects to bring in a decent starter. ? At this point, the Bloody Sox rotation is significantly better than the Yanks IMO.
What ever happened to Aceves after they released him? Was thinking they’d bring him back for less money. If still available, they should bring him back on a low risk, incentive based contract if possible.
Would very much like to see them get Andrew Jones. He’s perfect in that he’s right handed, can adequately play all three OF positions and can still hit well with good power.
Cashman already said they wouldn’t give up their first round pick and weren’t interested in Soriano. Oh, wait…
I would not be a bit surprised to see Joba back in the rotation at this point.
i agree! He may get a shot at the 5th spot unless they pick up someone else. He could compete in spring training with Brackman, Noesi, and Phelps, with one of the losers to the pen.
The money is meaningless with all players. The players that sign big contract like Werth have added pressure in baseball because of the money, but it doesn’t make them play any better. In Football Tom Brady makes 8 million and Eli Manning makes 20 million, and knowone knows or cares!
All i`m saying is the Sox are not as good as u may think ! Dont expect them to do what they did last year..Crawford is good but dont expect his bat to be like it was last year..He doesnt hit in big spots…As for Gonzo he`s never played in that environment so you dont know what your getting there….Drew is well i`ll just say hot n cold usually cold..Youk is steady…Ortiz dont know what ur getting there…Salty u know what your getting..a dead bat ! and at short u have below average bats…Ells is a steady on base guy…i wouldnt give the edge to the sox just yet…their pitching other than Lester and the Buck is suspect as is the Yankees pitching…Yanks will find a quality started before the season..if not give the kids a shot…they have a few ready to come up..i say give a shot..
Martin – Wasn’t even good enough to stay on a bad Dodgers team
Teixeira – Worst season since he was a rookie, and doesn’t hold a candle to Gonz
Cano – I’ll give you Cano is good
Jeter – Had a worse year than Scutaro…. Overrated/Declining
Rodriguez – More HR potential than Youkilis, but worse overall
Gardner – The ONLY thing he does better than Crawford is walk
Granderson – Has more power than Ellsbury easily, but can’t hit lefties (killer in AL East), and actually can barely hit for average at all.
Swisher – Another good player
Sabathia – Strong lefty, but I’ll take Lester hands down
Burnett – LMAO, ROFL.
Hughes – I’ll gladly take Buchholz going forward over Hughes
Nova – As bad as Beckett was last season, rather have him than the unsure Nova
Brackman/Mitre – Dice-K was still worth more wins than any pitcher on the Yanks except C.C.
Bullpen – Would rather have the Yanks 8/9, but the Red Sox easily have the more complete and balanced BP.
So is Jenks bad because he couldn’t stay on a bad White Sox team? Probably not. Much more likely is that they were both very good players at once but their teams non-tendered them either because of perceived poor performance vs costs or because of health issues which but their future production in question. See how that works?
PS-I love how you breeze over the fact that Tex was playing thru 3 different injuries last year (toe, hamstring, finger) and still hit 33 hrs and a .360 OBP. He also matches up with Agon career numbers.
Tex w/ a .913 OPS vs Agonz w/ a .875.
Granted, Agonz doesn’t have the benefits of better ballparks and better lineups, but to say Tex can’t hold a candle? Cmon. To speak as if Tex and Agonz don’t belong in the top 5 conversation for 1B is a joke.
Not to get too far off subject but Tex’s slow starts are legendary. They guy has been worse than Ortiz the first half of the last 2 seasons but you never hear about it because he finishes strong. But there is something to be said about that when your in a tough division race at the end of the season. The guy actually SUCKS in april and May almost every season.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. Tex’s slow starts have been well talked about it, even before he signed with the Yanks. It’s expected. Last year’s slow start lasted a lot longer than anyone could tolerate though.
Only to expand on the park adjust comments to those who are curious, Tex has a career 134 OPS+ (which is park adjusted). Gonzalez has a career 137.
Over the past 3 years Teixeira has an average 133 OPS+ to Gonzalez’s 151.
Needless to say they are both terrific first basemen, but those are the numbers to the people who would ask.
“Dice-K was still worth more wins than any pitcher on the Yanks except C.C.”
Dice-K’s 9 wins > Hughes 18 wins ???
Besides Lince(who had an off year) and Cain, tell me the pitchers Gonzo had to hit against… Exactly.
Tex had to deal with far superior pitching.
this made me LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
tex’s war is higher than gonzalez’s over the past three years … even including tex’s down year this year.
Jeter STILL posted a higher WAR than scutaro despite his worst career year.
the red sox were interested last season in REPLACING ELLSBURY WITH GRANDERSON BEFORE HE WAS TRADED TO THE YANKEES… so your front office clearly disputes your claims.
gardner had a better year (however slight) defensively than crawford, and crawford is certainly not worth 20 million more than gardner, who stole 1 less base.
you honestly talked crap about martin, when your starting catcher is saltalamacchia. LOL
please explain how the red sox bullpen is more complete. PLEASE.
How did Jeter have a worse year if he had a higher WAR? Jeter 2.5. Scutaro 2.1. Jeter must have been better in something to have a higher WAR.
Gardner – The ONLY thing he does better than Crawford is walk. What’s wrong with walking? Oh and he also plays as good if not better defense.
Bullpen. Don’t get me started. Red Sox bullpen was in the bottom 5 in the AL in most categories. The Yankees bullpen was in the top 3 in the AL in most categories. Both teams improved theirs, Red Sox needed to more of course, but the Yankees bullpen is hands down better.
How did Jeter have a worse year if he had a higher WAR? Jeter 2.5. Scutaro 2.1. Jeter must have been better in something to have a higher WAR.
Gardner – The ONLY thing he does better than Crawford is walk. What’s wrong with walking? Oh and he also plays as good if not better defense.
Bullpen. Don’t get me started. Red Sox bullpen was in the bottom 5 in the AL in most categories. The Yankees bullpen was in the top 3 in the AL in most categories. Both teams improved theirs, Red Sox needed to more of course, but the Yankees bullpen is hands down better.
Jacob so we get you are a yankees fan.
But to discredit red sox star players in their prime is well, silly.
Red sox are loaded. Yankees just fumbled their 1st round pick for an insurance policy against Rivera’s age catching up with him, and a very thin rotation (with a very fat ace). For which Soriano can opt out after 1 year, and now as CC can after the season as well.
Yankees are in potentially huge trouble – especially if Arod’s steroid laden hip breaks down.
Wow…no bias in your statement at all.
You know exactly what you’re getting with Crawford and Gonzalez. Stop with the ridiculous talk, please.
Scott Boras must be made of magic. The only question remaining is why any major leaguer who could have him as an agent would opt not to.
“I mean to just spew idioticity into the world for all to read?”
I’m sorry, I’m not usually one to do this, but I’m going to let this one just stew for a minute…
“I mean to just spew idioticity into the world for all to read?”
I’m sorry, I’m not usually one to do this, but I’m going to let this one just stew for a minute…
Yeah…..I know……I’m so freakin’ stressed this morning!!!!!!! Haha. I just clicked send on an email with gazillion mistakes because I didn’t take two second to spell check. Can I get a pass today man?
Yeah…..I know……I’m so freakin’ stressed this morning!!!!!!! Haha. I just clicked send on an email with gazillion mistakes because I didn’t take two second to spell check. Can I get a pass today man?
And my edit function doesn’t work here.
I’m just not comfortable with all these opt out clauses if this draft this year is as loaded as it is supposed to be. While prospects are never a sure thing, I would not be happy with giving up a 1st rounder for 1 year of Soriano.
Yeah but if he opts out and the Yankees offer him arbitration and if he signs elsewhere, they get 2 picks (assuming he is a Type A again)
Yeah but if he opts out and the Yankees offer him arbitration and if he signs elsewhere, they get 2 picks (assuming he is a Type A again)
Yankees can spend all the money they want cuz they have it, paying above market value is the stupid part… I just think the amount and the opt out options are so far beyond what anyone else would offer that its stupid…don’t believe me? what if soriano needs tommy john half way through the year? i guarantees he cashes those player ops at the bank for the next 2 years. yankees are dumb. eventually these contracts will kill them when they suffer a couple injuries…jeters age is injury concern, arods roids will catch up to him, c.c.s innings, marianos age, cano never been injured yet, …. im a blue jay fan for life, but the red sox have by far less injury concerns.
Thanks for the positive projections. All I can say is worry about the Orioles catching you this season.
I don’t think ppl quite understand the opt out situation.
Let me first state I don’t get the desire to grant or offer the opt out for Soriano.
However, since the opt out favors the player and not the team, then my guess is it was asked for by Boras. IF Soriano signed a contract w/o the opt out and suffered a severe injury then the consequence for the Yanks would’ve been the same regardless of whether or not the opt out existed, so from the Yanks perspective there is no lossed leverage on their end.
Signing him to a guaranteed 3 year deal runs the same consequences of an injury as it would with the options. If he gets hurt he gets paid under either scenario.
On the flip side, the BEST CASE SCENARIO favors Soriano more than it does the Yanks.
If he has a GREAT 2010 then he enters FA again next year. Winners= Soriano and Boras who have another shot at a big payday and the Yanks who get 1 great year from him and depending on whether or not they had an agreement not to offer arbitration then maybe they’ll get a pick back next year.
The thing that puzzles me the most is not why the Yankees agreed on the opt out clauses but the fact that they gave Soriano so much money AND the opt out clauses. I mean, usually, or rather, always, player get their way (NTC/Opt Out/etc.) for a reduced salary but here you see the opt out clause AND a pretty high salary.
Soriano is obviously a fantastic pick up for the Yanks. On overpay? Sure, but who wasn’t this offseason. Going to make it hard to get runs back if the Yanks are up in the 7th or 8th.
You must be playing fantasy baseball!
You must be playing fantasy baseball!
Don’t forget WINS don’t really mean much according to the new metrics,especially when your rival’s pitchers have more.
Edit and Reply on the fritz again!!!
Last comment was to YankeeBaseball
Don’t forget WINS don’t really mean much according to the new metrics,especially when your rival’s pitchers have more.
Maybe Hal and Hank can sell the team to CBS?
Either way it’s not a negative for the Yanks. If he has a great 2011 and stays then great. If he has a great 2011 and leaves then we collect the picks (unless they already agreed not to offer arb). If he gets injured then the Yanks would be stuck with even if there weren’t any opt out clauses.
Yeah this is a terrible signing for the money, but they’re the Yankees…they can afford to take these huge money risks on players that will never bring back their value in terms of money. There are maybe 1 or 2 Relievers that are worth over 10mil annually, and Soriano is not one of them. To give him 35mil over 3yrs WITH two players options is absurd. This makes the Yankees marginally better, since he’s going to be pitching one inning maximum at any given time. Not even to mention that he’s an injury risk and has never had 3 injury free seasons in a row in his entire career.
Yeah this is a terrible signing for the money, but they’re the Yankees…they can afford to take these huge money risks on players that will never bring back their value in terms of money. There are maybe 1 or 2 Relievers that are worth over 10mil annually, and Soriano is not one of them. To give him 35mil over 3yrs WITH two players options is absurd. This makes the Yankees marginally better, since he’s going to be pitching one inning maximum at any given time. Not even to mention that he’s an injury risk and has never had 3 injury free seasons in a row in his entire career.
The current CBA expires on Dec. 11, 2011. I can’t imagine that the new one would apply to this upcoming class of FA or the 2012 draft class. I could be wrong. Dec 11th is after the winter meetings, after players have declared for FA and after FA’s deadline to accept arbitration.
I’m pretty sure the conversation went something like this:
Boras: Cash Man, you guys have had a rough off-season. First, Lee stiffs you. Then, Andy. The Red Sox seem like the favorites with all of their big moves. Not easy being the Yankees right now. Brian, when did you lose the glasses? You look more….dare I say…..powerful?
Cash Man: Scott….why are you here…..we both know…..wait….what?….I do? Like a real G.M.? Not just some IT nerd running the Yankees like a fantasy team?
Boras: Well, Brian being that the Yankees are the face of Major League Baseball….my client and I have decided we’re willing to “accept” the role of 8th inning specialist rather than being the closer. We would only do this for you and the Yankees.
Cash Man: We have a closer. Why would I pay for another?
Boras: Brian, listen to me and don’t talk.
I’m Scott Boras. Pay us 10 million per year for 2 years and we’ll accept the offer.
Cash Man: Well….I don’t know. How about 3 years and $35 million?
Boras: Brian, you drive a hard bargain…..
Cash Man: OK….Ok…..we’ll give you an out after both the first and second year. Sound good? Please don’t take him to the Red Sox…..
Boras: Brian, you drive a hard bargain and all. Felt like I was dealing with Genghis Kahn. I don’t care what other G.M.’s think of you. I like you and because of that…..I’ll be back next year with Prince Fielder.
Cash Man: We have a first baseman. He’s you’re guy…..but OK.
Boras: Now let’s talk Manny…….
Acually I like Pedroia he’s an ASU boy!
Um, I understand that Soriano is a good reliever… but the Yankees signing him makes no sense at all. At first I figured they were trying to keep him out of another team’s hands, but if that were the case, why not apply that logic to guys you could have used properly like, say, Carl Crawford? Is this a knee-jerk after watching the Red Sox muscle up so hard they’re testing the front office for banned substances?
Can’t believe they’re giving up a 1st rounder for a guy that may only be there for 1 year. Guess they had to do something seeing nearly every other team improved this offseason except them. Boston is going to own the Yankees this year!!! Ha ha ha.
Have you taken a look at the history of the players chosen with the 31st pick? Aaron Heilman is the best name of the bunch. The Yankees gave up nothing and got a 2nd all star level closer. It’s a brilliant move especially when your closer is in his 40’s.
Looking at one specific draft slot’s history is pretty much as close as you can get to a completely useless statistic. Tons of players chosen with draft picks past the 31st selection have turned into fantastic major league players.
Unless you’re implying that the 31st pick is somehow cursed?
Looking at one specific draft slot’s history is pretty much as close as you can get to a completely useless statistic. Tons of players chosen with draft picks past the 31st selection have turned into fantastic major league players.
Unless you’re implying that the 31st pick is somehow cursed?
I was cool with the Yanks giving up a 1st rnd pick for Soriano because….
a) The very fact that it’s a deep draft makes me feel that they can find some gems with the comp pick they got for Vazquez which is #49 I beleive.
b) They still have their 2nd, 3rd, etc
c) Yanks have shown a history of finding good players in late rounds. Just off the top of my head….
Gardner was a 3rd round
Austin Jackson, Dellen Betances, Mark Melancon were all 8th rnd’ers
Adam Warren was a 4th rnd
Austin Romine and JR Murphy were 2nd rnd’ers
Brandon Laird was a 27th rnd
David Phelps, David Robertson were somewhere around 16th-19th rnd picks
Obviously, there were others drafted after the 10th rnd that were stars (Piazza, Pettite, Posada, etc) but those mentioned above were all Cashman picks.
d) I would rather trade an unknown than to trade scouted and vetted prospects mid-season for a bullpen upgrade.
e) It at least leaves the door open for a possible Joba return to the rotation. It’s not likely to happen but it’s a less burdening option now because the pen wouldn’t be as compromised.
I can’t believe what I’m reading here. It sounds like you guys are saying A-Rod doesn’t have much left, and he is on the decline, etc.
Let’s look at some numbers from last year:
BABIP: .274
ISO: .236
K%: 18.8%
Career numbers:
BABIP: .318
ISO: .269
K%: 20.8%
so despite making BETTER contact, A-Rod’s average dipped because of a drop in BABIP, which no doubt hurt his ISO as well. I guess you people don’t look into stats much… by the way his K% is his lowest since 1998.. so expect a big year from A-Rod.
How do those numbers you cited show that he made better contact in 2010 compared to his career numbers? And why do you expect all of his stats to return to career norms except for the bad ones (K%)?
Honestly I haven’t read through all these comments yet so I don’t know what you’re responding to, and I don’t think A-Rod is done being effective, I just don’t think your logic adds up.
How do those numbers you cited show that he made better contact in 2010 compared to his career numbers? And why do you expect all of his stats to return to career norms except for the bad ones (K%)?
Honestly I haven’t read through all these comments yet so I don’t know what you’re responding to, and I don’t think A-Rod is done being effective, I just don’t think your logic adds up.
I don’t think that A-Rod is done, but there are definite sign of a decline. You can’t just look at a single year, if you look at his numbers since 2007 it goes like this:
2007 – .314/.422/.645/1.067 .331-ISO
2008 – .302/.392/.573/.965 .271-ISO
2009 – .286/.402/.532/.933 .245-ISO
2010 – .270/.341/.506/.847 .236-ISO
Again I don’t necessarily think that A-Rod is “done” but I do think that there is reason for concern and obvious signs of a steady decline.
I see no problem with the money Soriano received. If he was closing he would be getting that money. He’s the AL’s second best reliever. He deserves to be paid like it. The Yankees have a terrific 8th and 9th inning duo now. I think it made them a lot better. Seems like NY needs a SP, but from what I’ve read Yankees still have a money to get a SP if an upgrade is available.
BTW, I’m not a Yanks fan despite my name being pinstripes.
Yes, but A-Rod was hurt one year and Youk got hurt with good stats. 4yrs War shows A-Rod to be the better player. Plus Youk has to go to a new position.
i really wish disqus would let me edit.
i hate having typos
i really wish disqus would let me edit.
i hate having typos
A-Rod 13 years with over 100 RBIs over 300 BA averages 43 Hrs. Youk not even close.
I dont think the player options is a big deal. Even if Mariano gets hurt and Soriano gets 50 saves with a 1.50ERA — who would have the money to beat the 2 Years/25 million left in years 2 & 3?
Wouldn’t it be wonderful if the intention all along was to sign Soranio and sacrifice the pick just to flip him (he doesn’t have a no trade clause) and 1 B level prospect to …… let’s say….the Cincinatti Reds for Edinson Volquez? Reds get to keep their 1st rnd and the Yanks sacrifice 1 prospect and 1 pick vs multiple prospects for VOlquez? Reds move Chapman to the rotation?
Pulled directly from my @ss and just pure fantasy but wouldn’t it be great if it were done to obtain a frontline pitcher for a team who wasn’t willing to give up their pick?
I think someone said you have to wait until June to trade a newly signed guy.
Didn’t Soriano say something about wanting to “start” a while back? Perhaps the Yanks could use him in the rotation?
That would be insanity and desperate.
Not unless you get the players approval. I was imagening that Soriano and Boras agreed to that a head of time.
well done cashman. let us just face it when you have a 2hundred million dollar payroll you have to sign the best guys out there to keep on winning , your post are great and your yankee knowledge is infinite. but first round picks are way over rated unless its the first pick , take a look who is the number one prospect this year its a philly and he was picked in 19th round. so well done. and i think this is your year to win year . providing Aj pitches like he can and your younger pitcher step up and have second halves like their first halves of the year before , but you will need a four leaf clover like the rest of us , ha za , and war and uzr