The Orioles signed Vladimir Guerrero to a one-year, the team announced. The SFX client will earn $8MM in total: $5MM this year and $3MM in deferred payments, according to Jeff Zrebiec of the Baltimore Sun (Twitter links). Zrebiec reports that Guerrero will get the $3MM several years from now.
It had been reported that the slugger was seeking a deal in the $8MM range while the O's were offering just $4.5MM for 2011. President of baseball operations Andy MacPhail appeared to be willing to let Guerrero go elsewhere, but it seems that the front office had a change of heart. Guerrero is the latest move for the O's, who signed Derrek Lee, Kevin Gregg, and Justin Duchscherer and traded for Mark Reynolds this offseason.
In 2010, the veteran belted 29 homers while hitting .300/.345/.496 in 152 games for the Rangers. Texas had some interest in retaining Guerrero last month but with Michael Young and Mike Napoli in the fold there wasn't a need for the nine-time All-Star.
Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportes.com first reported the agreement.
yes, yes, yes
The AL East continues to get tougher and tougher. I know that this move isn’t putting the orioles over the top, but the handful of games in which Vlad has a game changing hit could be the difference between a wild card or early vacation for some other East teams. A few more orioles wins could really tighten up the top of the division.
the AL east is scaaaaary!
very beastly for sure.
The interdivision games this year is going be more meaningful than ever, and it will make for an exciting year for sure. Rays-Sox, Yanks-Sox etc if your a fan of an AL East team its going to be a hell of a ride.
Wait a second. Aren’t we getting just a little too excited about the Orioles? This is a 66 win team in 2010. The guys they add contributed 8 wins last year. The guys they are replacing also contributed wins so maybe the team picks up 4 extra wins through FA. They are a 70 win team in 2011 unless they have some breakout years. On the high end I say they are 78 win team. Nothing remotely close to a WC team and a good 6-7 games below where I think the Jays will land.
Good point, I think you definitely can predict the standings of teams by stat formulations. Do me a favor and actually watch the Os this year, and when they are crushing whatever team you are a fan of, think about Vlad, stomping on your dreams. And you sitting on the sideline with a calculator trying to figure out just what went wrong.
I think you’re living in dreamland, not sure the O’s will be ‘crushing’ a ton of teams this year. Their pitching staff is sorry
To be fair though Vladdy ain’t stomping anything with those knees…that said, I love this move!
Yeah but he still played 152 games last year and even though he didn’t see the field much last year I think he’ll see even less of it this year. I’m not too terribly worried about injuries on him when all hes gunna be doing is stepping up to the plate 3 or 4 times a night.
he can only help our team….if he does good enough and we r no wheres near playoffs we will trade him before the deadline…and if he doesnt produce… we can always put Luke back at dh and pie in left
Ha. I was thinking along the same lines.
I’ll add that bjsguess failed to note how Showalter turned the team around. The O’s lost 96 games, but under Buck they had a .596 winning percentage. Buck was at the helm for over half of those 66 wins. That’s an indicator of a few things to me: 1) Trembley was a horrible manager. 2) Buck’s a pretty good manager. And 3) The O’s young talent was under-achieving and not developing properly under Trembley… And that’s putting it mildly. (If you want a case-study in bad management, Trembley is a great example!)
Now that they’ve improved the team’s overall on-field talent, imagine what the 2011 O’s might be like. Good reason to be excited if you’re an O’s fan.
Here’s what the O’s are replacing on offense:
First base in 2010: .625 OPS … Derrek Lee OPS: .865 OPS
Shortstop in 2010: .549 OPS … J.J. Hardy: .746 OPS
Third base in 2010: .668 OPS … Mark Reynolds: .817 OPS
Left field in 2010: .672 OPS … Luke Scott: .857 OPS
Sure any of those guys and/or Vlad could crash and burn, but I think you should be able to see why there’s reason for optimism in Baltimore.
Young players still maturing. That’s the real difference.
3B, SS, and 1B were *below* replacement level last year for the Orioles. Even if all three guys only hit their 2010 numbers, they’ll contribute closer to 11 wins than 8.
It really depends on how many wins Buck Showalter adds to the fold more so than the players they’ve signed. They ended the year 20-13 with him last year and I’m feeling that this trend could definitely continue especially if Reynolds and Lee bounce back and the top of their rotation produces like potential says they should.
Sir, we are all dumber for having read that comment.
They had the best record in the ALE in the final 2 months (somebody correct me if I’m wrong, not sure on the amount of time) and they got better over the off season. They’re not likely to compete for a playoff spot, but they certainly won’t be a push over this season. That being said, they will take wins away from the ALE competition above them. The ALE is going to be very tough to win this season, and a lot of that has to do with how much the O’s and Jays have improved this off-season.
It’s about time he signed with them. It’s been rumoured for 3 weeks now. I think he would have been better off signing with a contender, but it doesn’t sound like to many teams want to pay him.
sweet jesus finally!!!
So what does this mean for Nolan Reimold? He seems like he still has some potential, and now he’ll be the fifth outfielder in Baltimore?
I would trade Reimold to the Braves for Jurrgens. You would have to add a prospect.
I’m an O’s fan since the 70’s, and even I realize that there’s no way in hell the Braves make that trade, and no way that the Orioles make the trade if they have to give up the type of prospect the Braves would want to make the deal.
The O’s already have good young pitching. If they were going to make a deal for a pitcher, it would be an established guy, 4-5 years experience.
slider32 what you have just said….. is one of the most insanely idiotic things i have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response, were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in the message board is now dumber having read it. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your sould.
Nice, I am looking forward to watching the O’s this year with Lee, Reynolds and now Vlad but looks like the Orioles outbid themselves here…
beat me to it
True, but the O’s still have a relatively low payroll. I’m guessing, in the end, it was better to have a happy Vlad rather than a disgruntled Vlad.
I’m not sure how detrimental the extra 3 mil is over the course of 1 year.
Well 3 mil could’ve bought you a reliever. Plus, if Vlad ever becomes a trade candidate, then the dollar amount can be important.
Anyway, just because you can spend it it — doesn’t mean you should. You aren’t just setting the price for one guy, you’re setting the market for others as well. Players in future negotiations can point to Vlad and say that they should be worth at least what Vlad is getting.
If there isn’t a market for Vlad then why outbid yourself? (Clearly, if it took this long, then I seriously doubt Vlad had any other viable options)
In any case, the little things like these add up. If you’re a small market team with a budget then you have to penny pinch. 3 mil here, 1 mil there, another 2 mil there… the thinking can definitely become detrimental.
The O’s didn’t create the overpaying game. They’re just not going to miss out on their guy on principal.
And the O’s AREN’T a small market team. There is a misconception about that since they have kept their payroll so low for several years, but Baltimore definitely has the capability of being on the upper end of the middle market, if not the lower end of the big market. They just need a winning team to justify spending the money.
“The O’s didn’t create the overpaying game. They’re just not going to miss out on their guy on principal. ”
Right, so that justifies them playing it? Who loses most from overpaying? A team like the Yankees or Red Sox? Or a team that can’t spend nearly as much, like the O’s?
And where else was Vlad going to go again? Who else was offering more than 5 mil?
“They just need a winning team to justify spending the money.”
Vlad won’t change them into a winning team in the AL East. They need to extract as much talent as possible from the limited funds they have. And the O’s are a small market team when compared to the other AL East teams. (it is not even close)
Forget the money, they are the most improved team in baseball with a good manager. They will surprise this year. If they trade Reimold for another pitcher they will be even bettter. Hats off to the O’s its been a while since they have been relevent.
Unfortunately, as cynical as it sounds, everything revolves around money. Everything.
I like Buck Showalter but it could very well be that the team was lucky during that stretch. A lot of teams have great stretches and then come back down to earth. (Ex. Clint Hurdle) Managers don’t play for teams — the players do.
Remember, the O’s play in the AL East: too many things just have to go right for the O’s in order to surprise. I still see the O’s last in that division. I’m not so sure how they’ll pass the Blue Jays let alone the big 3.
These are billionares paying millionares. We really can’t relate to that! If you look at Bucks track record he takes teams and they improve to where they are in contention. He did that with the Yanks and Arizona. This team the O’s are putting on the field is much better than last years team.
I think arguments could definitely made for the Red Sox, White Sox and Brewers as far as this off-season.
the Os do have a legit payroll. theyre not the marlins…
Right, with that “legit payroll” they produced close to 100 wins last season. Oops, I mean close to 100 losses.
The Marlins don’t play in the AL East. Now compare the O’s payroll to the Yanks and Red Sox.
what i mean is that they can afford to give out contracts now. their hands are not tied when someone demands real money. sure they have had terrible results, but they should get better this year.
Again, I’m not arguing that they can’t. I’m arguing that they should have spent less.
3-5 million dollars overpay isn’t exactly chump change. (Think about it, Manny is getting 2 mil!)
oh totally agree there. but at least they are overpaying in dollars, not years.
are you serious? the o’s barely spend money at all. the one offseason they spend money people are saying they spend too much??? go talk to the yankees they still have double our payroll
That is the point: the O’s DON’T have the luxury of overspending like the Yankees. It is not that they bought Vlad; it is that they OVER-paid for Vlad.
Take the Rays: they compete with teams like Red Sox and Yankees BECAUSE they don’t overpay. The Rays squeeze every little win from every single dollar in their budget. You have to remember that these teams are dealing with millions and yet it can be all gone very quickly.
In order to compete, they need to spend like the Rays. (Spending smart) It is as simple as that.
the Orioles have loads of money to spend. the last time they were playoff contenders, back in the late 90s, they actually led the league in payroll one year (yes, ahead of the Yankees). I think that if they looked like real contenders, Angelos would easily raise the payroll to $100 million, or even higher. this isn’t a Rays / Pirates / Marlins type of situation where there is an artificially limited amount of money to spend.
Let’s say Angelos is willing, but do you honestly see the O’s as “real contenders”?
I’m all for spending if it can make your team a legitimate contender. However, most fans don’t understand risk evaluation. You have to factor in the division. The O’s are starting to form a good foundation but they aren’t there yet. They have some prospects but the prospects haven’t lived up to the hype. (Ex. Matt Wieters) Heck, they might never live up to their potential. (That’s why they call them prospects)
It also still doesn’t discount the fact that the resources can be used elsewhere. Again, the little things add up. 3 mil overpay, then another 1 mil then another 2 mil and that’s already 6 million which could get you a very good reliever. (which is nice trade bait or potential draft picks that can help the team’s long term potential)
There is a point where overspending will cap a team. There are just too many examples of teams overspending and then regretting it.
I think the O’s are at least 2-3 years from being a relevant team. They should at least post a winning season first. (or at least not 90+ losses)
It’s basically the same argument 2 years ago with the Nat’s. They spent a lot of money in 09 only to have a crappy season again in 2010. This offseason, they spent EVEN more on guys that aren’t game changers. We’ll see how that works out.
You really don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Just give up.
Nice argument. If you think overpaying is a good idea, then please send me 3 million dollars too.
I’ve already given up on you.
Vlad included, the O’s payroll has increased by a whopping $11MM.
You mentioned in an earlier post that if the O’s didn’t overpay by $3MM on Vlad, they could have signed a reliever. Instead of just throwing it out there, how about you tell me which reliever they should have signed with that three million. Go ahead. I’ll wait. Oh, there’s no reliever on the market worth $3MM? Wait, there’s no reliever on the market worth anything more than a minor league contract with a ST invite?
This is $8MM. For one year. For a guy who could have a tremendous lasting effect on guys like Markakis, Reynolds, Wieters, Jones, Pie and Reimold. This is nothing. And if Vlad hits, you trade him and you don’t even have to pay him the full $8MM.
Calm down, fella. You’re going to burst a blood vessel.
Calm down? Who is yelling?
“Vlad included, the O’s payroll has increased by a whopping $11MM.”
The O’s had close to 100 losses with an 80 mil payroll. An 11 mil increase counts as a 14% increase. That is not something small. (Only in America can we think of 11 million as ho-hum)
“instead of just throwing it out there, how about you tell me which reliever they should have signed with that three million.”
Obviously it’s late in the offseason so there isn’t much left. Does that mean they should have given Vlad what he wanted? Why not save that 3 mil for the draft or next offseason? Plus, they could have spent it earlier in the offseason as well. (On guys like Harden, Okajima, and Harang for example)
“This is $8MM. For one year. For a guy who could have a tremendous lasting effect on guys like Markakis, Reynolds, Wieters, Jones, Pie and Reimold.”
Ah yes, the intangibles… always the intangibles… But again, it’s about market value and there simply wasn’t any for Vlad besides the O’s. (well there was the “mystery team” I suppose…)
“And if Vlad hits, you trade him and you don’t even have to pay him the full $8MM. ”
I agree but Vlad looks more tempting the less money he has on his contract.
It doesn’t have to do with “only in America”. $11MM is nothing for the vast majority of professional sports franchises. Especially when that $11MM increase brought in power hitters at both corners and DH, a shortstop with a great glove and a good bat and a solid reliever to help sure up the pen.
I don’t even know why we’re still talking about this. This is a relatively small amount of money for one year. This isn’t going to stop the O’s from acquiring a marquee player next winter. This isn’t going to stop the O’s from spending money on the draft. This isn’t going to stop the O’s from spending money on international free agents (if they ever start doing so).
And really, we’re not even talking about $8MM for Vlad or an $11MM team payroll increase. We’re talking about $3MM here. The difference between what everyone thought the Orioles were offering and what they actually gave him. $3MM. When we’re talking abotu MLB… That. Is. Nothing.
There’s nothing wrong with a friendly debate. Plus, it’s almost the end of the offseason so there isn’t much to yap about anyway.
“When we’re talking abotu MLB… That. Is. Nothing.”
I guess that’s where we’ll have to just disagree. 3 mil yes, but it can lead to more overpay if a team sticks with that thinking. 3 mil is about 3-5% of the O’s payroll. If you were paid 100k a year, that’s 3-5k — which to me — isn’t small.
I apologize if I seem emphatic about this but I work in the financial services industry so I’m used to arguing about money. Anyway, this has gone long enough so let’s just end it.
thank you. you were annoying after the first reply.
The Secret Inspector
think about it junior…lets say that to satisfy vlad it would take a 3yr/18mm deal. he says no i don’t want another 1 year deal. the o’s have to make him happy so they throw in some extra cash…wouldn’t you say that the one year deal is smarter than a long term? this is all hypothetical and based on how these things usually go.
Vlad didn’t have many options but if it came down to going to a team that was almost historically bad for half of what he wants or waiting several weeks into the season for an injury to occur on another team and signing with them he would wait and see what happens. Also there is something to be said about a player actually being content with their paycheck. It’s at least a little more reassuring that he’ll try to earn the damn thing instead of coming in here and bumming it up like all the other old washed up players we’ve brought in before. It’s also important to consider how much of his contract is performance based and how much is guaranteed (I don’t know the numbers exactly though). Having said all that I think they could’ve gotten him for around 6.5 or 7.
The Orioles probably won’t get a wildcard spot but its possible that they could contend for 3rd place over the rays and bluejays especially considering that the rays lost a lot of players in the offseason and the orioles have improved greatly. We also have to wait and see how the orioles perform under buck for an entire season (they probably won’t have the same success as they did the last third of the season but it will still be markedly better than last year given just his presence in the club).
I don’t know about the passing Rays but I will agree that it is within the realm of possibility.
I also like the O’s signing Vlad; however, the overpay is troubling.
I think the O’s have potential; I just don’t want to see the team go down the wrong path like countless other teams.
East Coast Bias
Turns out, the “mystery” team that offered Vlad 8m was actually the Orioles!
O’s were the mystery team all along my friend
i agree. the O’s are gonna be fun to watch. i think this move puts them at least close to a chance at the divison or wild card. they wont make the playoffs but will be an above 500 team for sure. The east was already tough but with all the o’s moves its gonna be even tougher..
Keep dreaming. An old Vlad doesn’t put the Orioles over the top like you seem to think. Chances are quite large you get a 2010 2nd half Vlad for a whole year.
I think Vlad was the last peice to the puzzule for Buck, so they over payed. It just shows you how well the Rays did getting Damon and Manny.
I agree with you about Vlad being the missing piece. The two guys in Tampa are merely placeholders and gate attractions until the next batch of kids is ready. Damon might do a little, but I’m not sure about Manny because he took a big drop last year.
Fangraphs has a great comparison of Manny and Vlad. It shows just how good Manny was the last three years. He could still be the best DH in baseball this year! He could come back to huant the Yanks and Sox.
dont forget hardy. he may not be a big name, but compared to what they get out of izturis, he will be worth at least 2 wins more i expect. izturis was a good defender, but hardy is a great one, and while he isnt a great hitter, he has some upside, as opposed to izturis and his .280 wOBA…
Not really. It is reported that as much as half of the deal is incentive money, and significant portions are deferred.
O’s caved. Disappointing that so many teams are outbidding themselves. Vlad had a great year in ’10, but the market should’ve kept him to 5-6 million. At least it’s only a 1 year deal.
I had a feeling he’d go to the O’s.
looks like the O’s have just bought themselves a wild card
the only wild card Baltimore will be in connection with is if they are playing cards. no chance they get a playoff berth, no chance.
I’d be surprised if they were a .500 team.
they will be fortunate to get to 4th place, but even now I still seem them finishing 5th in the East.
unfortunately agree. the red sox win the east, the yankees come in second, the rays in third, the jays and Os fight it out for the last two spots. theyre both good teams, dont get me wrong, but they play in the wrong division. and with the tigers, twins and white sox all fielding contending teams, as well as the As challenging the rangers, there are simply too many good options for the WC. do you really think that the Os can beat the yankees, rays, blue jays, angels, As, and two of: twins, white sox and tigers?
Red Sox 100-62
You don’t have to book it. It’s been booked.
dude! I want some of what you have been smoking, it must be good!!
92 wins for Baltimore?!
I think you got that backwards, its going to be closer to 70-92.
I bet my left nut that Baltimore won’t reach 90+ wins. 80+ wins would even be a surprise.
it’s nice to be optimistic, but that’s really reaching.
How on earth people think the rays and jays are better than the orioles right now is beyond me…
The Jays still have 3 silver sluggers and a bunch of young high ceiling players. I dont get how everyone is calling Bautista a “fluke”, he hit 54 homers, hitting 40 or 30 when your previous career high is 15 could be a fluke but 54? really. Even talent evaluators from enemy teams are saying he’s no fluke (BoSox). Lind and Hill started the season injured and were injured most of the season, but they still got a lot of power. If all three of them can hit 35 homers it replaces the Wells size hole in the middle, this team is more balanced and there is a 50 homer and 50 stolen bases guys now. Without a doubt the best 3 pitching rotations in the East are the Jays, Rays, BSox, and the best hitting are the Orioles, BSox, Jays, (maybe the Yanks too). But defence wins and Orioles just dont have the d.
“I dont get how everyone is calling Bautista a “fluke”, he hit 54 homers, hitting 40 or 30 when your previous career high is 15 could be a fluke but 54?”
Two words from an Oriole fan: Brady Anderson
No offense and do like the O’s (from years ago and 3 team races with Sox and Yanks) but it is going to be awfully tough on the oriole fans losing games 10-7 all season with that pitching staff.
apparently Vlad did get $8 MIL from Baltimore.
guess it was about the money.
if it’s true he got that much money, I guess Baltimore really wanted him and gave in.
Baltimore’s best chance is still battling for 4th place, but I guess this makes them more exciting to watch.
Jeez. The Baltimore fanbase has been in a long draught for over a decade. It’s a huge regional fanbase traditionally, with a long tradition (before these down times) of winning, and this news gives them literally something legitmate to be positive about.
And, you chime in to pour water on the fire. We, Baltimore fans, who have followed this team for years certainly knows the difficulties of the AL EAST. 5th place? 4th place? 3rd place? Maybe likely. But, compared to seeing such bad baseball the last decade or so, it’s at least a real majorleague team finally, not a slipshod collection of players, some who just shouldn’t be in the bigs.
idiots. he orioles aren’t ready to compete in the AL east, but yet theyre just destroying themselves packing money in the books.
What are you talking about, its a one year, what team are you a fan of?
So how does a one year deal for 8 mil for a guy that hit 300, 29 hrs, 115 rbis destroy their payroll? Plus he was the best free agent left on the market.
East Coast Bias
You probably saw this one post about getting Vlad, without ever paying attention on the Orioles before, but probably filled in the blanks of the Os being a high-spending badly managed team based on this news. If you actually paid attention, you’d know the Os have turned into a very cheap young team filled with low risk short-term contracts with a lot of versatile guys.
This Vlad deal is the single outlier.
What about this signing is not low-risk or short-term?
Well, the risk is that, there’s a decent chance that at worse this 8M gets wasted. It’s only for a year, but it is a lot of $. If that means that that’s coming from player development or signing bonuses elsewhere it is something.
Its just not how its done. You don’t go from worst to first by going out and buying all the big (and old) bats. If it worked like that, nobody would even bother developing a good farm system. But hey, that’s what the O’s are doing
Since when have the Orioles been going out and BUYING good players? This is literally one deal that might be called this (but come on, it’s not as if it’s a 28 yr old Vlad). Every other deal the Os have made in the last decade or so hace been in the stopgap or “ok” category of player to hold the fort to buy time for the farm.
You should talk as a Nats fan. The Nats are the single team who have unabashedly been inflating the market in the draft and free agency in the last several years.
Glad to see I’m not the only one that disagrees with all this.
Agree. Stupid time to spend money on FA
nothing wrong with trying to put a decent product on the field. if they have money to spend then why not?? hopefully these signings turn into compensation picks or prospects at the deadline so they can give themselves a better future. it was unfortunate that they didnt have any players to net them some future considerations last year or the rebuild could have started sooner.
Nearly every contract they signed have been super low risk/low salary deals. I think there’s only 3 players with multiyear deals (Roberts, Ramon, and Markakis). Everyone else is one year guys.
Hehehe. Sorry. Brainfreeze. I meant Mike Gonzalez. I thought the “Orioles Closer deal” then thought about Dave Hernandez who replaced him for a spell, then thought of something-“Hernandez”…and came up with Ramon, which is waay off. Hehehe.
Anyways, Mike Gonzalez’s deal at the time was a multiyear one, but only for 2 years, which will come off the book after this season. Under MacPhail, just 2 years deals feel like extraordinary commitments. Markakis and Roberts are special exceptions though ecause of the symbolic place they hold in the hearts of Os fans, as far as current Orioles.
how many games will the O’s win?
I say 75-80
Around .500 is about right. But that’s a huge improvement. The team has been dreadful for over a decade now, and management needed to do something to keep people interested in the team both now and in the future. After not paying attention all summer due to the terrible start, fans really stared to watch games after Buck took over. Anything to keep that enthusiam going is probably a good thing for hte team.
Since they have to battler The other AL East foes so many times I will say 62 wins
isn’t that worse than last year?
their wins in the last 6 years.
I say 75 is the ceiling.
what happens during the season then they are way out? do they hold guys like Vlad/Lee? or trade them for prospects? if they trade them, under 70 wins.
They’ve been rebuilding the last 3 years. I don’t know what the hell we were doing before that …
That said, take a look at their record after Buck arrived in August. They had the 3rd best record in the AL while playing contenders down the stretch …
look at the teams they won so much against though. the red sox were out of it and fielding a AAA lineup, the yankees and rays had postseason tickets punched and were resting players and generally not giving a flying hoot. the tigers whom i remember the Os sweeping (twice? i dont remember…) were out of it for a while by then too. those are the good teams they played… i dont think it takes a lot to beat the bad teams…
Weren’t the Rays and Yanks battling for the Division down to the last day or so?
That’s a good question. And another reason for O’s fans to have hope. See even if the season unravels they’ve got plenty of trade bait for the deadline, unless the short-term guys get hurt.
You’re ignoring the fact that the O’s have more talent — much of it still developing — that has a lot more potential than any team they’ve had since the 90s. Plus they have a real manager. Not saying the O’s will have a great team this season, but they have a chance to make some noise, which they didn’t have the other years you cite (except 2005, the year Raffy got banned and Roberts got hurt).
85. Good things have to fall in place for that, like no catastophic injuries and those young starters HAVE to be ready. If not, then it’ll be 10-7 games like another said.
Getting rid of Millwood gets rid of 16 losses right off the top. LOL, I know that’s not valid logic, but the fact is they have improved at 4-5 positions, beefed up the pen and got another year of experience on their young starters. How the one person below said 62 is beyond me.
its a one year deal so its not like they are paying that much extra he will be off the books next year. yes they probably outbid themselves but id prefer a happy vlad over a pissed off one.
Woof. Vlad got more than I thought he’d get. I don’t agree that the O’s will win the WC, but hey the Giants won the WS last year so what the hell do I know?
One thing is for sure: This off season, the O’s and (especially) the Nationals have shown that they mean business. Things are going to get a lot more interesting in the NL/AL East the next few years….
well the ticket rate hikes are now justified. And I have no complaints. I’m even looking forward to this season very much. Weird.
THE O’s caved in on his offer I see.
OH well no biggie this just made the Orioles really deadly.
With Vlad, the O’s lineup looks pretty stacked, if they can get anything out of that pitching they should at least be a decent team this year and if a lot goes right with that pitching maybe even a .500+ team.
but is it worth it? A .500+ team in the AL East is a third or fourth place at best. I don’t get the reasoning of this offseason for the O’s. They were more than 2 or 3 pieces away from contention.
But I suppose a winning record would bring back interest. Thats the only plus I see
Yea I guess they should have done nothing. Whoops
seriously, it might’ve been more worthwhile to save the money for drafts & int. free agents. But that’s just me
I understand what you’re saying, but also..if they look at it that way then they will likely always have to look at it that way…every season. It will not look worth it every season just because the Yanks and Sox are in that division too. It will always be extremely tough for them to compete because I don’t see the Yanks or Sox slowing down anytime soon. At least not this decade.
I think it’s a nice change that they’re going after these guys. I mean, they overpaid for Guerrero, but it’s still a good addition. And I say they overpaid because it’s almost Spring Training and it didn’t appear like anyone else was bidding for him. I don’t see how he ended up with 8 million when 5 at this point seemed like too much. O’s caved on that one.
Well if they’re still willing to spend on drafts and IFAs then I don’t have a problem with it. But if the cost for making it an interesting season stops them from signing top prospects, it won’t look good. All I’m saying
I understand. They still need to build their team that way, it’s an important part. I hope it doesn’t hinder that either, but I like the guys they’re getting.
I know I’ll be watching the O’s more this year than I have in the past because of these moves.
The Orioles are the 3rd most profitable team in major league baseball, mainly because Angelos just pockets most of the revenue he makes from MASN and the like instead of spending it on the team. If he wanted, he could easily have a 100-110 million dollar payroll, but he doesn’t. So to say the Orioles shouldnt spend money on the team so Angelos can just pocket it is really dumb
I’m saying they should spend money on young prospects, not old has-beens
At some point, they have to show something on the major league level to lure in the marquee free agents they’ll need to be serious contenders.
The city of Baltimore won’t take much more losing, and the young pitching is ready to show what it can do.
You have already seen the effect of what a winning attitude and a few key moves have done for the team. Buck leads to a winning close to 2010, Reynolds and Hardy trades lured guys like Lee, Duscherer and Guerrero here. Well the trades and the fact Angelos opened his wallet is what got them here.
That’s why the Nats had to give Werth $126M. They had to make a statement and it also helped them land LaRoche. Both teams are making similar strides.
So you should just give up and not try to make the best team you can just because you’re in a tough division?
no you should try to build from within by spending on drafts and IFAs. and when you have a strong base THEN you spend on FA
Totally worth it. After 14 years of losing a .500+ season becomes everything. 82 or Bust!
I’m calling a 3rd place finish. Not playoff bound, but life-breathing baseball for the first time since ’97. So pumped.
I don’t see them being better than the Yanks. pitchingwise and hittingwise
Yeah ok… The Orioles passed the Yankees lineup wise with this signing. And their starting pitching has gone down the pooper this year…
um… that’s a good one. the yankees have one of the best lineups in baseball. most of Os pitching has more upside, but they are all young and have had scant success minus guthrie. they would have to all have a breakout year at the same time to pitch better than the yankees, even with the question marks in the rotation. now im not saying it wont happen, but it is far far from a sure thing.
Have you seen what the Yankees currently have set for their pitching this season?
have you seen your own rotation? Its not any better than the Yanks
I agree with what Buck did last year and now with all their additions the O’s are by far the most improved team in baseball. With Buck I wouldn’t sell them short. They will be in the hunt just look at that line-up in that park, I think they could be very good!
Buck and MacPhail saw the blood in the water and made the decision to go for it. Toronto and Tampa will both be competitive, but I still think they took steps back. With NY maybe getting worse, or at least standing pat, this year may be a one-year opportunity for the O’s to go for it. Once the Rays and Jays retool, this cycle may start over again.
Scott* (gotta switch 5 and 6 here)
There’s a $500K bonus if Vlad shows up to spring training with both of his knees attached firmly in place.
jajajaja nice one…
Good one. I think the O’s have more potential than most around here, but not much because of Vlad. I still have memories of Sammy Sosa in orange and black.
Cue the Reimold-for-Blanton rumors. …
i would keep reimold and trade pie instead reimold has more potential…
Yes, but Reimold has more trade value. … I really don’t think Pie nets you much of anything. Whereas Reimold could get you a No. 3 caliber starter who’s pitched in the playoffs and can give you 180-200 innings.
How does Reimold have more value coming off that type of season?
Would you stop saying everything I want to say, right before I say it! lol
Reimold = #3 playoff caliber starter? Wut?
How about trading Reimold to the Braves for a pitcher.
No. Not happening. Reimold is more valuable to the O’s than the value he can bring back in a trade
Not a chance that’s happening. Orioles have virtually no payroll left and that trade doesn’t even make sense for them.
Do the Orioles still finish 5th in the AL East? They were 30 games under .500 last year and I just cant see them being even a .500 team with all their off-season moves and in this division that means 5th. They will definitely be more exciting and harder to play against.
Yes, but the O’s severely underachieved during the first half of last season. In fact, they invented ways to lose. The boost to the lineup will definitely help, but it all rests on the pitching (who’s only real flaw is that most are still so young). But the O’s pitching staff finished up the last two months of the season with the second lowest ERA in the AL. Who knows what can happen in 2011.
I see the O’s better than the Jays right now!
Everyone was saying the same thing this time last year.
I guess that’s why they play the games.
Edit: As an O’s fan, I hope you’re right.
Me too! That lineup is scary! Seriously, the top 3 lineups in baseball look to be all in the AL East, BOSTON, N.Y., BALTIMORE!
I agree when you have Reynolds, Weiters, Jones, and Hardy hitting at the bottom of the line-up, this is not last years O’s.
one of the three does not belong
The jays still got bautista who hit 54 homers (even talent evaluators from enemy teams are calling him no fluke). They led the majors with homers even when Lind, Hill, and Snider were injured and never were able to regain there fitness. They can all hit 35 + homers each. Add Davis to that who stole 50 bases and Escobar who can hit 25 homers and steal around 20 bases while batting around 300. Plus the Jays young lineup of Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Rzyjsagdkasgdk, and Drabek,and Francisco, Fracor, Dotel, Rauch, Camp … Thats a great lineup and guess what most of the team is under 30 and can still run, thats why the Jays are better.
Wells can be replaced by Rivera and bounce back seasons from either Hill or Lind.
Overbay can easily be replaced by full season of Snider.
Marcum can be replaced by the continuing development of Romero, Morrow, Cecil, Drabek and Ryzfdaslf.
Downs and Gregg can be replaced by Francisco, Dotel and Rauch. So when looking at it they only lost the experience that those players brought to the team.
No offense Bambino11, but just because the O’s have stunk for 13 years and finished with almost 100 losses again doesn’t mean that happens in 2011 too. Too many people are buying into this 5th place permanency for the O’s. Could Reynolds hit .198 again? Could a young starter or two regress again? Could Hardy, Lee or Roberts end up back on the DL? Yes to all of those. But the likelihood of them all going south is pretty small.
Last year it was a couple of minor moves with no contigency plans in the offseason. So when Tejada got old and Atkins stunk up the joint there was no help waiting.
The difference in this year and last is the depth. There’s no question they’ll be markedly better–unless absolute disaster strikes in many places.
I won’t go totally nuts and start preaching playoffs, but that should and most likely be the team’s focus from the beginning. If anything, the players have been on board for this improvement longer than the fans. We’re still catchinn up.
To make room for Vlad on the roster, the Orioles have designated the Camden Yards security that took over 2 minutes to get 1 fan off the field.
I can’t post the link but for those who haven’t seen it, just go on YouTube and search Orioles fan on field. It’s the one that has well over 3 million views.
I was there. It was hilarious
I was there too. What a game. Especially when Wigginton burst every brain cell arguing that call at first!
It’s going to make getting good seats for us out-of-towners a lot tougher.We’ll see if the O’s fans show up this year.
I love Vlad, but 8MM???!!?!!!
ARE YOU KIDDING ME???!!?!?!?!
apparently the mystery team was the O’s. Who woulda guessed?
Unbelievable, reports from people in the organization was a 3-5MM offer
who cares what they pay him? There are more ridiculous contracts out there
Good for Vlad and good for the O’s. I hope they do well against the Yankees and Red Sox this coming season. It would be nice to see them along with Toronto and Tampa Bay make things difficult on the Yankees and Red Sox.
That said, I still believe the Red Sox are most likely to win the AL East.
It’s a shame that they have almost zero starting pitching depth, because if they did, they have the offense to go with some of these Wild Card claims. I just don’t think that with the current rotation they’re fielding they’ll be able to beat out teams like the Red Sox, Yankees, Twins, White Sox, Tigers, etc. that figure to challenge for a Wild Card or the lead of their division.
Even if Jeremy Guthrie and Justin Duchsherer reach their potential, they seem to be a front-of-the-rotation arm away from serious contention, and there’s just no way they could pull that type of deal off. They’re close to being contenders, but not there just yet.
Did anyone watch the O’s after Showalter began??? Our pitching was amazing. I think we had a team ERA in the 3’s. Even with a little regression the pitching should be decent. Also you’re wrong about our lack of depth. We have Guthrie, Duchscherer, Matusz, Arrieta, Bergesen, Tillman, VandenHurk, and Britton who could all make the team out of spring training.
there’s this thing called sample size…
I know, but you can’t honestly ignore a complete transformation of everyone on the pitching staff? Everyone acts like the Orioles pitcher are crap
they have 2 proven ones (guthrie, matusz) the rest are wildcards. their rotation could be anywhere from very bad to very good, and theres no telling which it will be.
the other thing is how long will the honeymoon with buck last?? he seems like an ok manager, but his past success is a little overblown i think.
Buck has been known for turning young teams around and then overstaying his welcome. I hope Buck stays with the Orioles as long as possible, but he goes when it’s time to go.
that seems to be a realistic pov. some ppl around here act like hes god’s gift to managing
I don’t think he’s God’s gift, but he does a good job with young teams and getting everything out of his players
when i said some ppl, i wasnt referring to you. your opinion seems pretty realistic about buck. i thought thats what i said…
You can’t ignore the transformation, but you also can’t ignore the other 100 or so games the O’s played last year.
There’s also a thing called player development.
No one was surprised at what Brian Matusz accomplished over his final 11 starts in 2010. Because he’s got the potential to be that good. Same deal with Arrieta and Bergesen.
If (and, sure, it’s a big if) those three pick up where they left off last year, the O’s could be a damn good team.
Screw sample size. Any 6 weeks of great baseball for the O’s is good enough. Let us O’s fans worry about that in May …
So which is the sample size, the beginning or the end of the season? The sample where they had a bad manager, or the sample where they had a good one? The sample where the players had more experience under their belts, or the period where they hadn’t?
Yeah, if we were to assume that the real level of talent of this team is somewhere in between the very bad version that started the season vs. the very good one that finished it, it’s a .500 team, right?
At or near .500 would be progress.
I agree in the Buck factor. He seems to get the most out of his players. This is a good team with veterans. The starting pitching will be the key, but their every day line-up is a winner.
Matusz is likely already better than either Guthrie or Duchsherer. He showed that the last two months of last season. It’s a question of when/if Arrietta and Tillman can fulfill their promise, if Bergesen can find his 2009 form, and if Britton is ready for the next step.
for 8 MM I sign Brady Anderson again, he´s more healthy than Vlad
Then you’d keep both, seeing as the Phillies would have zero interest in Pie.
I’m telling ya, Reimold for Blanton coming down the pike….
Blanton is terrible and would be crushed in the AL East. The whole inning eater thing is pointless, you know Blanton’s innings are going to be garbage while Arrieta, Tillman and Britton all have upside and should battle for the spot in the rotation. Bill James and other baseball people are still high on Reimold as am I, so no way Blanton is on his way here. The young pitching has to be given a chance to develop.
Thats a good deal for both teams.
Your kidding right?
Reimold to AAA to play LF and 1B … count on it.
Blanton is awful in the AL. Os fans, boards, and officials have roundly ruled out Blanton already, citing his very awful splits vs. key hitters on the Red Sox, Yankees, and Rays. There’s specific sluggers in the division that just own him.
Trading away Reimold would be roundly admonished by everyone as soon as a key injury were to take place. Injuries happen. If, say, in June a injury were to happen that requires juggling the roster but required a majorleague-ready bat, not having Reimold would hurt bigtime.
Another slugger to the american league east. Baltimore should be an improved team this year and it just makes things more interesting. Perhaps an improved Baltimore means the wild card team will not come out of the east this year.
That’s what worries me, the east has some of the best teams. It would be bad if the wild card comes out of another division. If that happens you will see extra wild card teams in 2012. The future of baseball hinges on the involement of the east.
I thought the league wanted extra wild card teams so they’d stop coming out of the east?
I thought the league wanted extra wild card teams to milk more money out of the playoffs? I like it though, better chance for the Jays!
Mathematically speaking, you play 72 divisional games, which accounts for 44% of your games. If inter-divisional parity is so great that you end up being at or around .500 there, you will come out of it with a 36-36 record.
That means that 66% of your games (90 games) are played outside the division. If the level of talent is so great in the AL EAST, and your team splits against each other, then you should be able to gain winning records vs. extra-division rivals, or, better than a 45-45 record. Much of that would likely mean fattening up on weaker cellar teams that supposedly don’t exist in your own division.
The advantage an extra-divisional rival might have over an AL EAST team for the wildcard would likely be against playing a disproportionate amount of games against that weaker cellar team. Once you factor in your own games vs. that top extra-divisional team and its cellar team, it ends up being a swing of 3-6 games at best. In a tight race, it can be a real difference, but it’s not the huge divide it’s made out to be.
All of this is based on probabilities and is abstract number theory, and the real detail occurs in how the actual numbers play out, but it’s a coarse sketch of how to think about it.
I hope the O’s weren’t the mystery team outbidding the O’s. Because only the Angels should be allowed to do something that stupid.
It’s not like Vlad and his $100 million dollar, multi-year deal came from the Blue Jays for two quality bats.
Looks like the Orioles just bought themselves a supplementary draft pick next year.
he wasn’t offered arbi in Texas, so i don’t see the O’s offering either
where’s the “can he pitch?” guy?
The Orioles starters pitched to a 3.16 ERA since Buck took over and they added a career 3.13 starter (when healthy) to the rotation. They have two of the top young arms in the minors ready to come up from AAA in Tillman and Britton…
you don’t know the joke.
here ill do it “Can he pitch” cano by the way can pitch im pretty sure
… It’s just not the same when someone else does it
I know I’m biased, but c’mon people look at this lineup:
I know man its ridiculous. You could make a case for the 5th best lineup in the majors.
2. Red Sox
There is no way the phillies and red sox are ahead of NY. NO WAY! How can you make that case? The Phillies’ O completely fell apart last year, and lost Werth. And Texas did NOT get any better signing “walk year” Beltre. The Red Sox have a very porous line up with streaker hitters like ortiz, drew, and (yes, I am saying it) crawford. NY has the best LineUp in baseball. NY last year was the only team w/ 3 100RBI players and lead the majors in Runs. And you put them FORTH this year when PHI and TEX each took a step back (beltre is due for another Seattle-esque) year? So I see.. The Red Sox have the best Rotation AND Line Up in baseball. Just give them the Trophy now… I can’t wait to see them collapse in the 2nd half like that have been the past 4 years
New Yorks 7-9 spot this year is hot garbage. Id rather have the current Orioles line up/Bench.
The Os lineup is very much a nicely balanced one, with quality batters with high potential, low in the order, but I don’t think you can yet say it’s among the best in the league. I’d be happy if it was, but realistically you have to still consider that this season’s version of Lee and Vlad will be late-career models, so you just don’t know yet.
That said, is it better than what they’ve been fielding the last decade or so? Absolutely yes.
Nice! Finally the O’s have a chance. I know you guys have been waiting for something like this for a while and Im glad it this year because the Cards see the Os this year. Dont understand how they went for 3-4 mil to 8 but whatever. Hes going to fill seats thats for sure. Lee, Renyolds, Guerrero.. Thats a pretty sexy 1,2,3
The O’s likely batting lineup:
1. Brian Roberts
2. Nick Markakis
3. Adam Jones
4. Vladimir Guerrero/ Luke Scott
5. Luke Scott/ Vladimir Guerrero
6. Derrek Lee/ Mark Reynolds
7. Mark Reynolds/ Derrek Lee
8. Matt Weiters
9. JJ Hardy
Not a bad lineup if you ask me. The only one who isn’t a major offensive threat is Hardy, but that isn’t really a big deal when the rest of your lineup looks like that, and when you consider Hardy’s defensive abilities. Plus, they have Felix Pie and Corey Patterson on the bench. I doubt they want their outfield that crowded, so they could trade Robert Andino and Patterson for a decent Pitcher. If Markakis plays well, and Reynolds keeps his strikeouts lower, The O’s could prove themselves to be serious threats this year!
Do you even follow the O’s? JJ Hardy is their shortstop. Andino might not make the team. Corey Patterson is a Blue Jay…oh yeah and there is no way Adam Jones hits third
Uhhh thats not even close to the correct lineup. Its way off. It is going to be:
2B Roberts S
RF Markakis L
1B Lee R
DH Guerrero R
LF Scott L
3B Reynolds R
CF Jones R
CA Wieters S
SS Hardy R
This is probably the right lineup on most nights. Showalter will work in Pie and Reimold (if he’s not optioned back to AAA for depth and later in the season) for Scott late in games.
You mean Hardy instead of Andino?
Robert Andino?!? Try JJ Hardy
That’s a pretty good lineup if I’ve ever seen one. Potential power throughout….
The guy gets what he wants
… Exactly why he said 3rd place, behind the Sox and the Yanks.
Manny Ramirez says “WHAT?”
nah, this is polishing a dookie more than anything…I am not sure if he’ll last the whole season.
Yeah you’re right a probably future Hall of Famer who played 152 games last year and batted .300 won’t last this year…
That’s a great line-up! You should be psyched, I haven’t seen a team improve this much in all my time watching baseball, not counting a team getting an ace pitcher. It will be fun again to be a O’s fan of which I am not.
The real significance of this move will be in what it will do for Jones, Wieters, and Markakis. One or some combination of those guys will have career or breakout years.
Also consider that, Roberts has never played with a legitimate 100+ RBI producer at both #3 and #4 behind him, but was always able to hit 50ish doubles and score 100+ runs. Now with a legit 3-4, he might have a career season too.
You’re a left handed pitcher… this is who you face…
2B Roberts S (R)
RF Markakis L (hits well against LHP)
1B Lee R
DH Guerrero R
LF Scott L (hits well against LHP)
3B Reynolds R
CF Jones R
CA Wieters S (R)
SS Hardy R
…and you just peed your pants.
We will see on opening day against David Price…..
Orioles are going to win the AL East Wild Card then get swept first playoff round.
I think most O’s fans would be thrilled with that. I would.
I will bawl like a baby the next time I see OPACY packed for a playoff game.
Honestly, I would cry tears of joy if that happened.
I don’t agree with the order (Yankees and O’s too high) but 3 of the top 5 offenses in the majors are in the AL East… something is wrong. Any other division, the Orioles are an instant contender. In the AL Beast they still have an outside shot. But if you base the lineups on the 7,8,9 hitters the Sox are far less than impressive and the O’s might have the best 7,8,9 in Jones/Reynolds, Wieters, Hardy. WOW!
So apparently Selig decided to move Toronto and TB out of the AL East and put Texas and Philadelphia it in. I agree with the move.
Don’t know why this ended up like this? Was supposed to be a reply to a top 5 offenses post!
I like the move, anything that can change the shape of the AL East is good in my books. Lets face it teams like Boston, New York and Tampa all had their chance at the top, and i don’t see the Red Sox winning another World Series anytime soon even with their signings. Baltimore will still end up behind the Jays however
3. Red Sox
5 Yankee doodles
….A guy can dream
the AL east is gunna be tough! if the yankees cant get their pitching straight then i could easily see the rays or even the orioles take over if all the moves they did this offseason lived up to their potential. you got reynolds, Duchsherer if he stays healthy and returns to his great year he had, if Lee could be his “old” self for one more year, Greg for a solid closer, and if Vlad can repeat last year than the Orioles are definitely in the running i’d say
its a one year contract, the last guy the os signed to a “good contract” was atkins and he went real far. I’d rather overpay a little and get a proven player then pay market contracts and get the same crap thats been out on the field for over 10 years.
Vlad Guerrero is hardly crap. Not even comparable to Atkins
Have you seen Vlad’s career numbers? He is an unbelievably consistent hitter and if you’re saying he isn’t “proven” then you have no idea what you’re talking about. He doesn’t need to repeat “last year” like an above poster said he needs to repeat just about any year he’s ever had because they’ve all been pretty damn good.
definitely a much improved ballclub that will not be run over in the east this year. going to be a very interesting division to watch with toronto getting better as well. obviously the red sox would have to be the favorite after their moves, and the yanks are the yanks. not sure what the rays will do honestly… i just hope this means we can see more yankee beating this season! wear em down so my twins actually have a chance to beat them in the post season! 🙂
Most runs last year 1 Yanks, 2 Boston, 3 Tampa, 4 Cinny 5 Texas. I would think the O’s will be in the top 5 this year.
They’re going to go from 27th to top 5? Anything can happen in baseball, and they are definitely a better team this season, but I think top 5 is pretty high.
Well this answers my question on why he hadn’t been signed yet. He in fact was asking for WAAAAAAY too much money. He was a pretty good DH last year but not 8 mill good.
Vladdy with the O’s! As a Yankee fan I am not to happy with the move. This year will be very interesting, considering that the division is very different. These are my AL East predictions: 1: Red Sox-101-61 2: Orioles-90-72. 3: Yankees-88-74. 4: Rays-77-85. 5: Blue Jays-69-93.
Um, no… The Orioles are vastly improved this year but to see them pass the Yankees yet? I think they’d be hard-pressed to catch up to what the Ray’s will be in 2011 either (a +.500 team).
The Rays pitching is great, but the only really good hitter on the team is Evan longoria. You could make a case for B.J. Upton, but he needs to grow up first.
ummm… no. I highly doubt the O’s can win 20+ more games than last year. and the Rays & Jays aren’t going to be nearly that bad
I think every team will be .500 or above, except the o’s who i will predict to be 80-84.( sorry ment to reply to dan )
Not sure about the Jays’ pitching. Plus, they also lost Vernon Wells and might have a rookie catcher starting.
Jays pitching… Is better than O’s pitching
there are bigger name free agents hitting contract years if the orioles can put together a winning season it would become easier to sign bigger names but all in all great offseason cant wait for the season to start
I think the point is that the orioles are trying to prove to the fans that they aren’t going to roll over and give games away. They still have very young pitching and last year we couldn’t score any runs so if they can score it may take some pressure off the younger players and allow them to make a mistake and not automatically lose. Not to mention it provides protection in the lineup for other players (mark reynolds, adam jones). I think its worth it considering it is a one year deal.
i think the point is that it provides the team depth and allows them to develop the pitching further. Last year they did not score at all so the pitching had to be perfect to get a win, I think with more runs the pitchers will be able to make a mistake and not feel immense pressure. Plus it provides depth in the line up for guys like reynolds and jones. I think its worth the one year deal. If he has a bad year, he walks and thats that
I don’t give a flying crap what they Paid for him, the Orioles just got better. If the Orioles compete, fans will come. Watch and Learn, Tampa Bay fans.
Where does this idea come from? He was a poor left fielder before his achilles injury. He cannot play center. He can barely play left. He’s a worse LF than Pie despite it being his primary position and it being Pie’s secondary position. He’s a worse LF than Scott who is really a DH. Reimold cannot, absolutely cannot, play CF.
Vlad wont see the field on defense maybe ever all year. Jones/Pie in Center, Reimold/scott in left, Vlad/scott/Reimold DH platoon is my guess.
uhhh Pardon me but can Vlad pitch? This team can’t score enough runs.
It’s all about the pitching. The really bad O’s teams of the mid 00s could hit, but they couldn’t pitch at all. This O’s team actually has promising young arms, and they have a manager that has worked well with young pitchers in the past. But do the O’s have enough pitching to compete? It all comes down to if Arrietta, Tillman and (eventually) Britton (or one or two of them) are the real deal. And when. The O’s may need to trade for for another quality starter.
Thats not very likely to happen. Andy works under the idea that you grow arms and you buy bats. I think Arrietta will pan out. I’m not sold on Tillman though but Britton looks promising.
You say it’s not likely to happen, yet the only one you’re not sold on is Tillman? That leaves Matusz, Bergesen, Arrieta and Britton to go along with Guthrie and Duchsherer. The only one of those pitchers who wasn’t a highly rated prospect is Bergesen. There’s a lot of potential there. Still, I think they maybe try and add another starter at some point. And on Tillman, he’s still only 22.
berken also has starter exp. if needed
Overpaying for Vlad is really only bad in the sense that youre signing an old man for one year and you aren’t making any sort of a playoff push whatsoever. Despite that though you have to keep in mind that the orioles are probably 1 of the 2 or 3 most undesirable teams in the league to play for and you HAVE to overpay if you expect anyone to come here. Once you get in a microcosm of a talent and maybe break 500 those bats that they so desperately want to sign might actually consider coming here without having to break into the federal reserve to give them a paycheck. Vlad makes the team look good, and when the team looks good fans fill the seats, and players are less likely to fake contract negotiations in order to drive up their price for the real team they want to sign with. Its 2-3 million down the toilet, this isn’t the Jason Werth deal and the O’s aren’t anywhere near going broke because of the 14% payroll increase…
I think you meant to say there isn’t a team worse than the O’s in the division. Are you b*ts%$t crazy? I wouldnt take their lineup over any other team in the AL East, nor would I take that pitching staff over any other, both have countless question marks among them
Explain to me how
“I wouldnt take their lineup over any other team in the AL East” I’m sorry but maybe not all but im taking this lineup over Toronto who is banking on a one year wonder in Jose Bautista and Adam Lind who ppl are assuming will bounce back, and those are their middle of the lineup bats
B-rob Markakis Lee Guerrero Scott Reynolds Jones Wieters Hardy
Maybe I’m not seeing something but Outside Bos, Nyy Lineup Wise this is pretty damn good
Pitching staff on the other hand has some question marks but this team is making the city of Baltimore intrigued, rather than just wondering when OTA’s will start for the Ravens
And you’re probably the same type of guy that watches Championships get won on paper
Yeah, go ahead and assume Lind won’t bounce back and Bautista is a fluke, just like I KNOW Reynolds will hit under the mendoza, Wieters has done nothing and Hardy has done nothing on offense in two years. I would take Aaron Hill 7 times a week and twice on Sunday over Roberts, Yunel will outperform anybody they put at short. I dont know where the comment about championships won on paper come from, I think you just dont know how else to reply. The Jays have a far more reliable staff and a MUCH better pen. Maybe you should watch some games before trying to talk
Sorry, but even hitting under the Mendoza (the first time in his career) Reynolds had a better year in 2010 than Aaron Hill, whose BA was only 7 points higher than Reynolds’. Both of those players are likely to have a better 2011. Why compare Roberts to Hill just because they both play second? Roberts is a leadoff hitter and a high OBP guy, a classic leadoff hitter. Hill is is not. Different players with different roles. You may as well compare Jose Bautista to Ichiro Suzuki because they both play the same position. And after Yunel’s weak 2010, why boast him over Hardy, or anyone else for that matter? Again, both players are likely to have a better 2011. Plus the Blue Jays traded Wells while the O’s added Lee and Guerrero.
I agree the Blue Jays should have better pitching than the O’s, though, even without Marcum.
How did he have a better year? They had the same WAR and Reynolds was at a position where you expect better production.
Yeah, I was comparing positions in my original post, but the fact is, Roberts has been declining for three years now, he is gonna be 33 years old next season. Hill’s BABIP was .196 last year, he couldn’t reproduce that if he tried, its almost 100 points below his career avg.
Oh and just so you know, as “weak” as Yunel’s 2010 was, his WAR was still half a win better than Hardy on BR and only .2 worse on FG. Hardy’s BABIP was about 15 points higher than his career avg while Escobar’s was over 30 points LOWER than his own. Again, I will take Yunel any day of the week, oh yeah, and twice on Sunday
Reynolds’s OPS was nearly 100 points higher than Hill’s. In spite of his terrible batting average, Reynolds draws a lot of walks in addition to hitting for power. He actually had a decent OBP. Yes, you’re right, you would expect better offensive production from a third baseman than a second baseman, and with Reynolds you do get more offensive production in spite of his obvious flaws as a hitter. As far as WAR is concerned, I’m guessing Hill is a better defensive player at a tougher position, hence the even WAR? Don’t know. Roberts was hurt most of last year, so it’s silly to say he has been declining for three years in a row. His 2009 numbers were marginally lower than his 2008 numbers, barely. Though he did hit 56 doubles in 2009.
And with Wells gone and assuming Bautista moves to third, the O’s now have the better outfield with Luke Scott in left field now — at least they do for the time being. In terms of depth, consistency from year to year and overall balance, I’d think the O’s lineup would be expected to be a bit better than the Jays. Adam Lind and Bautista have only had one great year each, and the Jays really have no one like Markakis or Scott anymore that have shown steady production from year to year — except maybe Encarnacion. When it comes to the younger hitters, the O’s and Jays are about even. Who knows if Adam Jones, Matt Wieters, Nolan Reimold, Travis Snider or Yunel Escobar or someone else will break out big this year? It’s anyone’s guess.
But yes, the Blue Jays look to have more depth and balance on their pitching staff. The Jays have done a great job over the year maintaining a good staff. The O’s staff has a lot of potential, but it is still an unknown for the most part.
Arent you kinda relying on an old lineup to be healthy? Frankly if you put up all those guys and bautista in a draft the only guys I would take ahead of him would be markakis, you can have your aging vets, the blue jays have a better lineup going into the season, I mean they won 85 games last year!
I don’t get it,
Guthrie/Matusz/Arrieta/Bergesen/Duchscherer have all pitched like they belong in the big leagues in recent years while Gambino and Britton have upside in the minors. Safarte looked like he could be a big league set-up man as well along with the not-too shabby combo of Gregg/Gonzo/Johnson/Uehara.
This really is an average staff to me and most of these O’s pitchers are improving more than not. I love teams like this filled with question marks just waiting to surprise the nay sayers(BoSox and Yankee fans)
So where are they not doing that? They have been doing it for several seasons now. $8 mil, (and a good bit of it deferred), is not leaving them penniless to do the other, and a competitive team could bring many of the disallusioned fans back to the park and pay off way better in the end! Your starting to sound like a worried Jays fan.
Why do people keep saying they can only improve last year’s record by X number of games? The 2011 O’s will be NOTHING like the 2010 O’s.
They were absolutely decimated by injuries last year: Roberts (their best player), Bergesen (their most effective starter before he got hurt), Uehara, Gonzales, & Johnson (all three of their potential closers), Reimold & Pie. To the best of my knowledge, all 7 will start this season healthy.
ALL the automatic outs from last season (except Wieters) are GONE from the lineup. (Wieters is AWESOME for his defense/arm alone. Hopefully the new hitting coach will fix that slow, loopy swing.)
Markakis & Scott are very underrated left-handed hitters who got NOTHING to hit last year. Now they cannot be pitched around because they will be protected by 4 right-handed additions (Lee, Vlad, Reynolds, Hardy) who, in their best seasons, hit 46, 44, 44, and 26 homers, respectively.
The offense is great. The defense is great. The pen has depth. The only concern is starting pitching, but the SP could really surprise a lot of people. Bergesen had a great rookie season in 2009 (7-5, 3.43) that was cut short by 2 freak injuries; he’s healthy now. Guthrie is good for an ERA under 4 & he’ll FINALLY get some run support. Matusz, as everyone knows, is going to have a breakout year. Duchscherer, when healthy, is damn good. And I like Arrieta in the rotation (though I worry that his arm will fall off).
They don’t have Boston’s rotation, but neither do the Yankees.
Last but not least, they have an excellent manager & decent coaches.
I’m not saying they’ll win the wildcard, but it’s within the realm of possibility. Everything would have to go right, of course – no key injuries, SP surprising people, etc. – but for the first time in AGES, the wildcard is a POSSIBILITY! Even this remote possibility is FANTASTIC after so, so, so many years of ignominious demoralization.
All 5 teams in the East are looking good simultaneously. When has anyone EVER been able to say that?
So what you are saying is if a bunch of old guys play like they used to and the young starters all come through then on paper you guys have a shot at winning the wild card. As a tigers fan, I can tell you dont get your hopes high based on what you have on paper, wait until june.
Only Lee and Guererro are “old”.
Paul, last year’s O’s were starting Josh Bell (.214/3/12), Garret Atkins (.214/1/9), Izturis (.230/1/28), Moore (.209/3/10) & an injured Reimold (.207/3/14).
Those guys provided 11 HR and 73 RBI in 974 AB.
One more time: 11 HR and 73 RBI in 974 AB.
That actually happened. And it’s “on paper.”
Also on paper: Lee, despite playing through an injury & having an off year, topped that production by himself (while Vlad & Reynolds hit 61 HR & drove in 200 runs).
O’s didn’t hand out any A-Roid 10-year deals. Our “old guys” (who aren’t really that old) got 1-year deals. They will play hungry & can be flipped for prospects late in the season if the team falls out of contention.
All our best hitters from last year are still around. And the guys we added could not possibly (even if they play the whole season wearing blindfolds) be as pitiful as 11 HR and 73 RBI in 974 AB. That’s simply a fact.
If Roberts, Bergesen, Duchscherer, Uehara, & the rest of the oft-injured spend a bit more time off the DL than on it, the O’s can contend.
8 million. HOLY CRAP! I guess the Yankees aren’t the only teams that will outbid themselves.
They still better average about 6 runs a game if they are going to make the playoffs with the rotation they have……
O’s vs. Nats – 2011 World Series.
Vlad would have signed with the Orioles the first time he was a free agent except for one little bug,……….they had no Spanish speaking radio outlet. Vladimir’s mother listens to the games and he wants her to follow him. Whether they have a Spanish outlet or not, now, I don’t know. It’s quite possible ESPN Deportes carries every Major League game now and it is not an issue.
Not much doubt Vladdy will end up in the Hall of Fame with a lifetime .300+ average and 500+ homers, depending how long he plays. He’s not even a one dimensional player as DH, like David Ortiz types. Vladdy can still pay the outfield a bit and has a great arm. But, when ever he comes up in a key situation, I just feel he can be an easy out because the guy swings at EVERYTHING. In his mind the strike zone is eyes to toes and 5 feet wide. This makes him impossible to pitch around because he has a quick bat and can reach anything thrown. “Good” pitchers get him out with sliders away, unless there’s a guy on third (notice the amount of passed balls on Vladdy at bats)
You can’t deny his numbers, he’s ALWAYS productive and he’ll certainly loosen up the O’s clubhouse. No city or fans in baseball deserve a winning team more than the Orioles after what they have had to suffer through the ownership of Peter Angelos. I really hope someday Cal puts together an ownership team with enough money to lure the franchise away from the self-promoting egomaniac who thinks himself an owner.
I LOVE going to Baltimore to see a game, great city, great park, super baseball atmosphere. I hope they’ve changed the rule that only season ticket holders get in to see BP. Eutaw Street fills up with fans waiting for the inner gates to open and, of course, they are captive in an area full of vendors and the O’s fan shop. BP is part of the whole ballpark experience and should be enjoyed by all.
Has anyone been to Camden Chat? They were pretty much outraged at this move
Nice to see the O’s getting alot of run on here in the comments section. Hey, Peter Angelos, see what happens when u put some money back into the team in regards to significant player signings!
Still wondering who the “other 8 million dollar team” was.
I doubt there was one. I think it was The Orioles vs. The Orioles the entire time.
“but with Michael Young and Mike Napoli in the fold there wasn’t a need for the nine-time All-Star.”
Except Young’s looking to gtfo and Vlad is waaaaay better than both. Rangers effed up here.
And despite major additions, Orioles will once again lose 90+.
I think the Jays and Rays fans are posting so much on this thread because they are scared and are freaking out at the possibility of becoming the new cellar dwellars of the AL East….. Plain and simple the Orioles have gotten alot better this season with the additions of a healthy Roberts, Reynolds, Lee, Hardy, and Guerrero in the line up…. that is an entirey new infield….. they are replaceing the likes of Ty Wiggington, Cesar Izturis, Robert Andino, Scott Moore, Migeul Tejada, Garrett Atkins, and Corey Patterson.
No, no one is scared of the Orioles. Thankfully though, their fans are generally less bellicose and less numerous than Yankees or Red Sox fans when they visit other parks.
I see a lot of doubter who support the “other teams” than the Orioles.The Orioles organization made a lot of good aquisitions this year and should be respected as a contending team.It’s all in place accept management didn’t have to shell out big money to do it. So like I said once before “the O’s are going to shake up the east” without a doubt.
Vlad is awesome
i know this is kind of random but does anyone know who drafted jake locker?