Daisuke Matsuzaka had already strained the patience of Red Sox Nation before this Monday’s horrendous start. Boston may skip Matsuzaka’s next outing, but talk of trading or releasing the right-hander remains premature.
The Red Sox aren’t about to give up on Matsuzaka, though their patience for him is dwindling, according to ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark. Releasing Matsuzaka this year is not an option, according to Steve Buckley of the Boston Herald. The Red Sox still owe Matsuzaka $10MM this year and $10MM more in 2012 and they aren’t eager to eat that much money.
There’s a slim possibility the Red Sox will look into deals for Matsuzaka even though he has a no-trade clause. Peter Gammons said on WEEI's Mut & Merloni show that the Red Sox could consider trading him for another player with a bad contract.
He isn’t going anywhere. There is no way they could get back someone who would suffice as a fifth starter and get out from taking a portion of his contract. What other bad contract could they even take that would improve the team. He’ll get better they just have to let him pitch how he wants to pitch, if he wants to throw 200 pitches and nibble let him do it, he’ll give up less meatballs that way.
That’s too bad.
If they did, hypothetically, trade him they wouldn’t need to get a starter for him. They could slot in Wakefield, Doubront, or even Miller as the #5.
we’ll trade you Aaron Cook for Dice K, straight up trade.
Joe in Colo.
Rox Nation
I think the Rockies would deny that proposal
Say it ain’t so Joe…. in Colo.
They are stuck with him
I hate watching him for the fact that his wind up takes FOREVER. It is almost as slow as watching paint dry.
you think thats bad? try playing MLB the Show and having him as the opposing starter. Now thats frustration
I AM PLAYING RIGHT NOW AND IT IS SOOOO ANNOYING!!!! ARGGGHHHH!!
slowest delivery….ever.
when i play with the sox on my franchise and i haveeee to pitch with him–i walk the first batter to have him pitch from the stretch–haha
Hahaha…. awesome
I hate the fact that MLB the show doesn’t come up in xbox, it’s THE only game I really really want from PS3. Oh well, I guess Halo:reach and Gears of war makes xbox 360 worth it.
It is made by Sony so it will never come on xbox… ever.
and i thought i was the only one
If you think Matsuzaka’s is bad, meet Rafael Betancourt
Can we please put Aceves/Doubront/Wakefield/Pimentel/Bowden/Miller/Devern Hansack/any one else with an arm in the rotation? Please?
Hitting the panic button, are we?
He just wants to pitch for Boston again…
“Devern_Hansack 2 minutes ago
Can we please put Aceves/Doubront/Wakefield/Pimentel/Bowden/Miller/Devern Hansack/any one else with an arm in the rotation? Please?”
No. I’m just tired of Matsuzaka cycle through three or four horrific starts, one good start, and the disabled list. From 2009 to now, he has been worth only 2.8 WAR. I suppose that’s acceptable for a #5 starter, but he is also completely infuriating to watch.
I dont think paying a $50 million dollar posting fee and then another $52 million for 6 years is acceptable for any #5 starter.
the red sox have already made more money on the matsuzaka deal than it will ever cost them
you’re using his horrible start in that number, which is silly
from 2009-2010 he was worth 3.1 WAR. that sounds lame, but he only pitched 200 innings over that time. 3 WAR per 200 innings is nothing to brag about, but it works for a 5th starter. people tend to forget that a 5th starter is just not a very good starter
matsuzaka is obnoxious. i don’t enjoy him. he annoys me. but he’s not going anywhere and he shouldn’t unless he declines
I just wish he weren’t so dang aggravating to watch pitch
i used to think watching wakefield was the worst, but dice reigns supreme
a matsuzaka start followed by wakefield in long relief is one of the worst things that can happen to a baseball fan. bring in a guy like reyes to finish it off and there is no way to not get drunk
I don’t, as a general rule, turn the game off in the middle of it regardless of how bad it gets, but when I saw Wakefield warming up while Dice-K was pitching the other night I nearly did. I wasn’t sure if I could handle it.
I was AT that game Monday night. Believe me, everyone was beyond happy when Wake came in. Never mind the time, we were just overjoyed to see Terry pull Dice. Of course, the good thing is that so many people left before the seventh inning that we turned our standing room only tickets into seats behind home plate (if a couple dozen rows up). LOL.
I guess he’s not going anywhere then, as it’s pretty much impossible for him to “decline” further.
source: one start in april
lol devern hansack
and we’ll throw in Ian Stewart for free!!
Joe in Colo.
Rox Nation
It was cute the first time lol.
I wonder how long it takes before we have the same discussions about Beckett and Lackey.
If you go to NESN or the Boston Globe they are probably having that discussion right now. I doubt, however, that it is proposed in an article on here any time soon. There’s no reason to think that those two can’t still be the same pitchers they were for multiple years before last year.
Other than Lackey’s K rate decreasing for 6 straight years and his walk rate increasing for 4 straight years, right? Beckett still has good stuff, Lackey had major warning signs before he even got the contract.
Lackey posted 4 WAR last year and had a 3.85 FIP. As for his K rate, he had an abnormally high (for him) K rate in ’05 and ’06 then from ’07-’09 he posted 7.19, 7.16, and 7.09 which (while technically a decline) was him staying essentially the same. No pitcher is going to have exactly the same numbers every year, but those are close enough that it shouldn’t be considered a decline. And his BB rate did increase but even in ’09 was still a moderately low 2.40, and was still below his career average.
Fancy stats aside, Lackey had the most base runners for all starting pitchers last year. That would have me down right scared of whats to come.
Ya Because Beckett looked so bad last outing and all.
Barry Zito has good games too, what’s your point?
If I had to guess I’d say his point is that Beckett is sitting pretty with a 2.08 ERA so far this season, so you look like a moron in discussing releasing/trading him.
He was hurt last year (shoulder and back), it happens, get over it.
reversion to the mean for beckett means 5 WAR. reversion to the mean for zito means 2 WAR
math is hard
Beckett? Lol, you’re a funny guy!
Sure, releasing him means eating $20mm, but keeping him practically means a guaranteed loss every 5th game.
boring hyperbole. at worst, matsuzaka is an adequate fifth starter
Exactly. He’s just a highly overpaid 5th starter.
not if he keeps pitching the way he’s pitched this season
you ready to DFA francisco liriano, too? chad billingsley? mike pelfrey?
no? just trollin’? cool
Those types of declines don’t suddenly reverse at age 32, I’m just not buying it. He walks too many hitters, he gives up too many hits, he doesn’t strike out enough batters. If he were pitching for anyone but Boston, his demise would have been a foregone conclusion before the season even began.
Are you still talking about Lackey here? If you are, all of those statements fit last year but not the previous three years. There really isn’t a trend. I generally don’t like using Batting Average Against, but it fits pretty well here; his BAA in ’07-’09 was .253, .258. .256 and then it jumped to .274 last year, but his BABIP also jumped 20 points, so it seems that he got fairly unlucky as far as hits go. And as I already said his K/9 were steady and his BB/9 inclined a bit but was still a good 2.40 and still below his career average. So one “bad” year isn’t a trend and unless he continues to do the same this year I wouldn’t write him off.
This is of course assuming that the “new” 4.0 WAR Lackey is “bad.” If Lackey pitches the same this year, and the next three years, he will have posted 20.0 WAR over the course of his contract, more than justifying his pay.
The idiocy of red sox fans never ceases to amaze me. Steady and alarming decline for 6 years is not a trend. LOL
“As for his K rate, he had an abnormally high (for him) K rate in ’05 and ’06 then from ’07-’09 he posted 7.19, 7.16, and 7.09 which (while technically a decline) was him staying essentially the same.” I just thought I would help MaineSox not have to re-type from above. A decline of .1 in K rate over 3 years is not “Steady and alarming decline”. Try again and try to back up your statements.
Woah Woah Woah, Don’t you try to use reason to back up your argument. I believe Grant’s one sentence with no supporting facts already won this one.
I am sorry! Also dinosaurs walked on the earth with man.
You so smart Grant!
Maybe you should try reading what people say before you call them an idiot. I already told you why it’s not a decline and you have said nothing empirical to refute what I said. Keep trying.
Nothing empirical? His numbers have declined for several years and his ERA is over 15? You can justify the serious decline however you want, but it exists :p
“His numbers have declined for several years and his ERA is over 15” You know what I have said about his “decline” in the past, and have said nothing to suggest otherwise. Now you’re going to add his ERA from three games this year? Not only is that a ridiculously small sample size, but it’s a ridiculously small sample size of ERA which is nearly useless in a large sample size.
your just bitter Beckett owns the Yankees in the postseason…….lol
I’m sorry you cannot defend how awful Lackey is. He did more harm then good.
Kei Igawa and 10 Million for Dice Baby! Whadda ya say Theo?
No Yankee fan wants Dice K please stop. We enjoy watching him make the red sox lose. Why would you want to take that satisfaction away from us lol.
Igawa! The only Japanese deal worse than DiceK’s! No thanks!
Step 1: Demote DiceK for several months
Step 2: Make him rage so hard that he retires
Step 3: ??
Step 4: PROFIT!
lol, maybe he will rage quit baseball, that would be great
Rage quit lol what is the MLB the Show?
a game for the PS3
already profited from him in terms of dollars. who is going to provide 2-3 WAR this season in his place? doubront? miller? don’t say wakefield
the first two are question marks as much as matsuzaka is, except with them you are risking developmental setbacks in addition to poor performance
boston should probably just let daisuke do what he wants at this point. if he needs to throw 150 pitches to give up 4 runs in 7 innings instead of 8, fine. he’s not getting re-signed and three years of trying to americanize him have not worked
Economic theory strikes again!
south park underpants gnomes reference?
My fantasy baseball name has been The Underpants Gnomes for the last 9 years! lol
If a bad contract involves a decent right handed bat that can be played quite often to balance the lineup, sure. It’s probably not going to happen, though. Yes, the pitching has been bad, but they’re not swinging the bats either. Some of those games can be won if they’re hitting.
the hitting has come around lately – it’s just in the form of line drives right at guys. if you’re not a red sox fan it’s actually pretty impressive to watch a such a talented team combine poor play with awful luck for such a long stretch
Maybe the Sox could explore making a deal with a Japanese team where at least they could recoup money back in return to not eat the entire salary. I’d be interested in seeing what one of the many Sox starting prospects can do if they split time with Wakefield (have to stretch those guys out slowly, can’t be rushing them into 200 IP if we want their arms to last).
japanese baseball knows the red sox have made money on the matsuzaka deal, so don’t expect them to take pity
there
it’d definitely be in dice’s best interest to get back there, though. i felt terrible for the guy when he got yanked the other night and the crowd erupted with pleasure. former national sports hero turned borderline embarrassment
I agree, while it must be great to get paid all that money to play a game you love. At some point you have to be down on yourself when you and everyone else knows you cant live up to the money you’re earning. When he was out there he looked lost, felt bad for him…
Do you really think they have made more than 100 million on him in 4 years? Please explain.
as a consequence of the signing, NESV (owned by the red sox – now “Fenway Sports Group”) was granted the contract for all of MLB’s marketing in japan
owners of the red sox that would say if i could edit it. the contract itself has been worth more than $100M by this point
I remember Dice-K complaining that he wasn’t allowed to train/throw in between starts as he was used to in Japan because of the Sox training staff. Maybe they might try just letting him do his thing like he used to? If that doesn’t work he’s probably just been exposed/adjusted to as a pitcher and he may get 1-2 seasons of decent productivity if he goes to the NL before hitters adjust to him and effectively end his career.
He seems talented that I believe it’s the former and not as much of the latter at work. So he may need to adjust how he approaches the game regardless. Has his velocity taken a dip or his pitch movement? I haven’t watched red sox much last 5 years as i moved away from MA.
Kazmir for Dice K + Prospect
OR!!!!!
Bobby Wilson, Vernon Wells and body for Dice-K
Kazmir is worse than Dice-K. Kazmir is about as good as Oliver Perez
Three team deal. Kazmir and Perez to the Sox, Dice-K and cash to the Angels and an IOU to the Nationals. Should work.
oliver perez can’t find the plate without directions
Even with directions. He needs a homing pigeon to carry the ball there for him.
If a player is hurting your team doesn’t releasing and eating the money make the most sense?
Seems like most Japanese arms post a few decent/ok years and then just flat out tank. I really hope Cashman stays clear of the Japanese market while searching for pitching.
Most? Eh not sure there. Kuroda has been pretty consistent for his 3+ years.
Still, maybe you’re right..Ishii, Matsuzaka, Igawa…
It’s sad to see a player with such an incredible work ethic and sense of resonsibility for his country struggle so much. Imagine pitching in the MLB with your nations reputation on your back.
It gave Ichiro ulcers. But at the same time I’m interested to see how Matsuzaka handles this.
link to artofbaseball.net
you know what’s sad to see? spam
Sorry if you thought that was spam. But to my defense I have this site’s widget on my home page. So if anything(hopefully) Im bringing more traffic to this site.
Cheers:)
you still posted a frigging link in your post.
I just want to know how he gets away with that, and I have yet to successfully link to fangraphs.
Yeah, if I try to link to a well-known baseball site to back anything up, the monitors shut it down for days, weeks or even forever. I despise that.
You might be on to something. I watched him pitch during his latest outing and it was like watching a batting practice pitcher work. Everything he threw seemed find its way to the center of the plate to be hit. He seemed preoccupied, as if, he had had a knockdown, dragged out, fight with his spouse 15 minutes before game time. Either that or he was very preoccupied about something other than baseball, like the tragic circumstances back in his home country. Does anyone know if his family or his wife’s family was exposed to the events that have taken place over there?
not likely imo. curt young has been trying to get him to stop nibbling
experiment failed
I wonder if what Curt said translated to Japanese as “throw it right down the middle, like, right in the middle.” It would explain some things.
To me, it was like defiance. You want me to pound fastballs over the plate, I’ll show you I can pound the plate. Dice-K pounded the middle of the plate, over and over and over, like there was no one with a bat within a mile. I honestly believe this was a rebellion. I wonder whether the comments coming out now are a facade. I suspect that the Sox are secretly saying they will stay the course with him and wait until he turns things around a little to trade him off.
Quite possibly. I know Ichiro did…..I think what may be having a larger impact on the Japanese players in America is the issue with the nuclear crisis and Tempco.
But I agree, he definitely seems very distracted and he’s obviously void of confidence.
I think Dice-K for Fukudome would be a perfect deal for both the Red Sox and the Cubs.
works for chicago but boston probably isn’t aching for another left-handed outfielder. especially one that would be 5th on their depth chart
What? Why not?
Who would have guessed that, at this point in the season, Burnett would have half of the Yankees wins and Lackey would have half of the Red Sox wins?
that just shows right there that wins is the most overrated stat when determining a quality SP
i don’t disagree with your statement, but i don’t see any causality there. AJ is actually pitching pretty well so far this year despite his ERA not particularly reflecting that. I’m sure the yankees would take >8 K/9 and <3 BB/9 out of AJ's turn in the rotation all year long.
Never should have let Lowe go…..
Evilempirebos was stupid enough to sign all these players for outrageous money so stop whining and eat the contract. Just release him and raise ticket prices to cover it. Boston folks will pay anything to watch their beloved soxs
The only pitcher to stay consistently good that I can recall was Hideo Nomo!
Well it seems as if the Yankees could too with Hughes, Garcia and Nova (possibly even 2 out of every 3 of his starts)
We could also ask why a Yankees Troll like yourself is posting on a Red Sox post! And aren’t you normally working rest stop gloryholes by the Washington Bridge around this time?
Yankee fans are certainly entitled to post on Red Sox posts. And your points made are well taken, except with respect to Buchholz, whose had 1 bad outing, and Beckett, whose pitched like he was in 2007 form in his last outing. Both of those are still to be determined for this season. The same applies to Hughes and Nova, who I believe will turn out to be good quality starters for the rest of the way.
Your right to post and correctness of your baseball theories does not detract from the hilarity of Dynasty’s “working the gloryholes by the GW Bridge” reference.