With baseball's best farm system at his disposal, Royals GM Dayton Moore acknowledged that he's willing to trade prospects for pitching, according to Bob Dutton of the Kansas City Star. Dutton says Moore would like to find a deal similar to the Ubaldo Jimenez trade, where the Indians acquired a talented, controllable starter in exchange for prospects.
"We'll be aggressive in trades," Moore said, looking ahead to the offseason. “We'll try to make a trade or two that helps us. We have to look internally first, but then we have to look at trades. Then, finally, we have to look at free agency. We’ll explore all of those options…. We have a minor league system that's ranked pretty good. So we'll see what's out there. We're a pitcher or two away."
This spring, Baseball America said Kansas City's minor league system was "among the best we've seen," with nine Royals ranking among BA's top 100 prospects. So while there's no doubt that the Royals have the depth to make such a move, you could contest Moore's assertion that the club is only "a pitcher or two away." Even in a weak AL Central division, with some of their youngsters starting to make an impact in the bigs, the Royals are 25 games below .500 this season.
Still, according to Dutton, club officials believe that the rotation doesn't need to be overhauled for 2012, and that adding a top-of-the-rotation starter to their current core is the key for a "rapid rise" in the standings.
"What we need, if we're going to win a championship," one official said. "Is somebody who can match up with [Justin] Verlander and [C.C.] Sabathia and [Josh] Beckett."
ESPN.com's Buster Olney (Insider link) identifies the Mariners, Diamondbacks, and Braves as teams who might match up with the Royals, specifically naming Mike Moustakas as a player who could interest Atlanta as a successor to Chipper Jones at third base.
With 5 of those 9 Royals prospects being pitchers, they may be better off just waiting rather than trading guys like Myers or Colon for pitching.
Royals can have the best farm system of all time, an ace isn’t going to make them a contender next year unless a lot of things click.
Maybe, but should they mortgage the future for a #2 starter? It’s a tough call for a GM (and he damn well better be right or fans will always remember it).
All I was saying is that 1 pitcher isn’t going to make them contenders next year no matter who that pitcher is unless a lot of question marks do well. In terms of what you just said, I agree 100% although I personally would go all in on free agent starters and hold on to their crop of prospects.
What else does KC have to lose? If the fan base gets their kicks out of having the best farm system in all the land…there’s really something wrong with that considering the end product. I know, you have talent to win, but you to win to have talent. Think about it. WSH knows exactly what I mean (Werth-less…)
The Royals scored more runs than anyone in their division this year except Detroit. If they had allowed about 1/3 of a run less per game over the course of this season, it would have been the difference between 5th and 2nd in the division…so, yes, I think adding an ace could make them a contender.
That ace is one pitcher. Adding an ace to replace your worst pitcher and knock everyone else down a slot (no matter how much better the ace is) won’t reduce the number of runs you allow by 1/3.
One third of a run not a reduction of 33 percent.
Then his statement is now even harder to agree with. That one ace possibly could do that by giving up ~55 fewer runs than a #5 over the course of a season, but you can’t spread that out over the entire season because he’s only pitching once every 5 games. In reality, you wouldn’t be giving up 1/3 of a run less every game, you’d just have 20% of your games where you’re getting much better production than before while the other 80% is roughly the same as last season.
Thats exactly my point. The Brewers were a lot further along than the Royals are when they added pitchers both in terms of hitting and pitching. I don’t think the Royals are just one ace away from competing. With that said the Royals have the young talent to make that push, but it would involve a lot of young players doing well, which can tip in either direction.
“with the exception of Detroit” / “in their division”
1) They are not tops in a weak division
2) They are 13th in runs in the league.
Also show me how adding an ace lessens 1/3 of a run across the entire pitching staff?
If an ace came in and won 10 more games than one of your starters you’d be tied for third in the division at its most basic level. (and yes I did use wins to quantify . . . wins) We can add in the effects it’d have to have a pitcher who could pitch more innings and lessen the strain on the bullpen. Or we could just look at how sorry the Royals rotation is right now, and how an ace only pitches 1/5 days. Whatever works.
And you assume that the ace automatically = second in the division (which btw is still second in the division, even by your own admission).
I just don’t understand your argument at all.
Well the Royals don’t have the best farm system in baseball anymore considering much of talent is in the majors
It’s not the best anymore. But it’s still in the top 5. Especially after all the international signings and the draft.
With Bubba Starling just added along with Brickhouse being added as well, they still have Myers, Montgomery, Lamb, Arguelles(sp?), Odorizzi, Colon, Cuthbert and Dwyer. I wouldn’t be suprised if they are no.1 again. Atleast top 2 or 3.
I still think its too early for this. Say they deal a Moustakas for pitching. Then you have another Greinke situation with a great pitcher with not much support. I think they have to wait a bit more until they get closer to .500
they aren’t trading moustakas
Agreed. Just using as an example.
Absolutely this. They are no where close to being in an position to trade for veterans. This is beyond retarded, and as a royals fan really irritates me. Rebuilding, takes time, and until you have a .500 plus team from your prospects only you don’t go and get veterans.
God this angers me
If they could trade for a guy like Tommy Hanson, who has another 4 years of team control, it might make sense. Although, if the Braves were willing to trade him, it might throw up some red flags. And you’d have to imaging they’d want quite a haul for a guy who is that young and that good.
Crow I think is going to stay in the pen and Montgomery and Dwyers has taken huuuuuuuge steps back, Orduzzi (sp) looks good but he more projects as a 3 than a top of rotation starter, I think they could be interested in Jair Jurrjens, or maybe even James Shields
As a Braves fan, I bet Jurrjens for Wil Myers could work, but I don’t think JJ is the ace that they are looking for. I (even through Braves-colored goggles) wouldn’t like my chances with JJ matched up against Verlander, Sabathia, or Beckett.
I would LOVE to see Moustakas for JJ, but the Royals wouldn’t do that (even with Moore’s affinity for the Braves).
I agree that Jurrjens doesn’t really have ace potential (there are about 10-15 pitchers i consider ace) but he can be a good number 2 for years to come for Royals.
Jurrjens is a FA after 2013 and will be due pretty nice arbitration raises for the next two years. I agree he’d be a good #2 starter for them, but I’m not sure the Royals would be willing to part with a top prospect for a $6Mish #2 starter. I hope I’m wrong though…
Maybe as a mid-season deal next year. The Braves will have spare pitching, and might have a need at SS/3B/LF depending on what they do.
They gotta bring up fulltime Teheran and Minor at some point next year, and Delgado and Vizcaino in 2013.
That’s going to be tough unless they have a lot of injuries.
I think they’ll work to trade somebody this off-season. They will prefer that be Lowe, but even eating a good amount of his remaining $15M they will be hard-pressed to find takers. JJ, on the other hand, they can sell high on right before his arbitration raises kick in. If they believe that Teheran, Minor, or Vizcaino are ready it makes sense to trade him while his stock is high.
I wouldn’t assume the Braves are going to have spare pitching. Hanson could very well end up needing surgery on his rotator cuff (they’re waiting it out now, but the guy has a fairly violent delivery), Jair has spent much of the last two years injured, and Lowe is, well, Lowe. That leaves Beachy, Minor, Teheran, and Delgado. Vizcaino will probably be in the conversation, as well, but might be in the ‘pen. Either way, the point remains: They’re all very talented, but also very very young. We’ve seen how much importance ATL places on pitching depth and its fair to say that they already have less reason to expect to be optimistic about their depth in ’12 as is. I can’t really imagine that they’re planning on doing anything involving trading away their pitching at this point.
I forgot to type in Hudson’s name. My point remains, though.
you forgot Medlen as well… not to mention the fact that you have automatically disqualified two guys who made 22 starts each this year, throwing 130 and 146 innings respectively. I think the Braves could afford a trade.
Crow I think is going to stay in the pen and Montgomery and Dwyers has taken huuuuuuuge steps back, Orduzzi (sp) looks good but he more projects as a 3 than a top of rotation starter, I think they could be interested in Jair Jurrjens, or maybe even James Shields
Montgomery is in AAA at an age when most guys are graduating from High-A ball, and it’s the first time he’s ever had any kind of trouble as a pro. He’ll adjust, and I think it’s huuuuuuugely unfair to say he’s taken a huuuuuuuge step back. And Odorizzi could certainly pan out to be a SP2, as he’s already got a plus fastball and curve along with a huuuuuuugely improved changeup. Spending a good portion of his age-21 season in a tough AA league is pretty promising.
No way the Royals unload Moustakas. Well, unless the Mariners give them King Felix.
If the Royals didnt give up on Gordon in 4 yrs, no way they will give up Moustakas.
Moustakas has been on fire these past 2 weeks
Agree! He has done much better— His avg was below .200 weeks ago, and even though its not off the charts, its not sitting at around .235 or so, which is a nice jump from where he was.
He was in the .180 range in the beginning of the month. I was anticipating a demotion but hes lifted his average over 50 points since then.
Seattle might give up Pineda, if a package could be built around Moustakas.
Hmm…. Wonder if the A’s would deal Cahill, Gio or Anderson for prospects then?
Could see them being interested in Gio and A’s do need to improve their farm system
Hmm… sounds like the Royals want to be Friedman’d or AA’d.
Are we still going with this “the AL Central is weak” thing? Cause im not sure if you noticed but the Tigers are one of the best teams in baseball and are still underachiveing. Not to mention, they have a very very solid core of players locked up for a couple more yrs.
The Tigers are a whopping 41-41 outside the division
One team doesnt stop a division from being weak, especially when that one team veats up on the rest of the division.
You do realize that 2 teams in the division are more than 20 games under .500 and 2 others are just hovering near that line.
Your argument is because one team has risen to the top of a weak division, it is now a strong division? Give me a break.
Your argument is worthless. One team does not make an entire division strong.
Since when are The Tigers one of the best teams in basball? They’re talented, but that statement is a bit of a stretch.
The division is relatively weak this year but I would agree in that it changes from year to year. The writer says ‘weak division’ as though it will be the case next year and after – but these things go in cycles. Look at the AL and NL West divisions – relatively weak for years but bouncing back
We all know the Twins and White Sox should be over .500, and how are the tigers not one of the best teams in baseball? They have like 4 of the top 10 in average in the AL and the best pitcher. Yes, the rest of the rotation has been inconsistent, but i think Fister, and Scherzer are good 2/3 or3/2.
LOL…oh, well if the Twins and White Sox “should be” over .500, that makes all the difference in the world. Why didn’t you just say that in the first place? Of course the AL Central is good if those two teams “should be” over .500.
Except that they’re not. As Clint Eastwood once said, “Deserve’s got nothing to do with it.”
They have one team with a positive run differential and it’s just barely.
Why would Moose be traded? It would just create another hole for this team. They might be willing to part with Cuthbert or Myers in a trade though if it netted them say Latos or Hanson. I see them going after Billingsley. It probably woudn’t take much other Chris Dwyer, one of Mike Montgomery or Wil Myers, plus somebody else like Tim Melville.
No real “ace” jumps out at me as being a possible trade candidate this offseason. Obviously that can change fast, though, but as of now I can’t really imagine any upper-echelon pitcher on the market.
Edit: The Rays would probably be the team to consider, to me. Perhaps they trade James Shields, like they did last year with Garza, and I can see the Royals offensive prospects appealing in return.
All of that said, I mostly agree with the sentiment that the Royals should just be patient, because with their pitching prospect depth, some really good arms should develop.
Jurrjens possibly? I don’t think he is an ace, but a very good number 2 pitcher….
Yeah perhaps. One of those guys that seems to vastly outperform his peripherals, so it would be interesting to see how another team would value him.
Hanson + Lowe + 5 million for Myers + Colon
Hanson’s is controlled longer than JJ. Myers gives the Braves a future LF and Colon would start at SS for the Braves next year. Hanson’s departure gives Teheran a spot in the rotation. Lowe’s spot does to Beachy.
Braves rotation looks like: Hudson + JJ + Beachy + Teheran + Minor (with Delgado and Vizcaino waiting in AAA).
Bonus: Dayton Moore gets TWO Braves to add to his collection.
lowe probably has negative value to a team like the royals
For his contract yes. For what he would bring to a team like the Royals, a reliable , low injury risk veteran who pitches well in September, he’s got a positive baseball value, though it’s not $15mil. He’s worth like $5mil.
He’s got an 81 ERA+ this year in the NL. His last good year was three years ago in a huge ballpark. He’s not worth millions of dollars.
pitches well in september?! Awesome!
Hanson is way too valuable hes is a ace. Yes his ERA has risen, but he was pitching through injury and yes this injury could be serious but it could also not be.
Value is lower for the Royals because Hanson is going to test free agency with Boras as his agent
True, although not until 2016…
Hanson has 4 more years of team control. Could be a Super-Two this offseason, but it will be close. The only thing that would depress his value is if this shoulder injury thing is significant. The Braves have handled him with kid gloves for the most part, rarely letting him go over that 100-105 pitch mark the last 2 years.
The question was raised last off-season, is the royals front office incompetent enough to ruin the best farm system in baseball?
Yup!
I still don’t think so. I think Moore is qualified to run a scouting and development system, not a big league roster.
This–It’s easy to rag on Moore’s big-league signings and some of the comments he makes, but his talent acquisition and development record speaks for itself. Also, if you look at how the Braves operated in the 90s and early 2000s, they often traded excellent prospects for established veterans, and nearly always came out ahead. There is a strong case to be made that dealing prospects for established big-leaguers in the current environment is the best way to improve your baseball team. However, it does require $$$ to consistently operate this way.
I dont think the Royals would be interested in Jurrjens. He only has 2 more years of control left right? KC should be looking at 2013 as a year where they make a big jump in the standings. Getting him for top prospects would be foolish
I can see friedman calling and taking advantage of the weaker minded Moore. Shields is probably viewed as an ace lol, which is ridiculous. So stupid of the royals
Given all the club options for Shields, he’d actually be more sensible as a target than most of the names being mentioned.
Oh im positive this will be shopped as an option. Just wouldn’t be smart on the royals part
Again, given that Shields’ contract includes really reasonable club options, I don’t know why you’re so down on him, unless you just think Moore is doomed to get schooled by Friedman (which makes sense).
How exactly do the dbacks match up with the royals? The dbacks are on their way to the playoffs, they’re not exactly trying to rebuild. If they keep things as they are the rotation will looks something like: Kennedy/Hudson/Collmenter/Miley/Bauer, with Skaggs and Parker waiting. And the offense looks pretty solid with the only major question being at 2B. So how will getting rid of Kennedy or Hudson in exchange for young bats benefit this team? In my mind it will set them back a few years and possibly miss their time to strike..
What would KC want from AZ? Those teams are kind of in the same spot – maybe an abundance of prospects, but some pieces away from REALLY contending.
Would like Moustakas (or whoever) for a top of the line pitching prospect (Parker or skaggs or whoever) even be a good trade?
I dont think i understand how these teams match up…
Yeah I tend to agree. I see how both of these teams might match up, but I don’t see them doing any trade. The D-Backs and the Royals are in the same boat. You guys would probably might like Colon or possibly Myers, but I don’t think will benefit either team if it comes at the expense of Daniel Hudson or Ian Kennedy. You are going to want more then that for one of those two.
Moustakas for Joe Saunders. Deal.
/sarcasm
In reality, they’re probably going to ask for Dan Hudson or Ian Kennedy, which will be the end of that conversation.
Well, you beat me to it. I posted basically the same idea below. AZ probably has a need for 2b or 3b (roberts can move from 3b to 2b), and has a “surplus” (is there ever such a thing) of pitching.
Well, you beat me to it. I posted basically the same idea below. AZ probably has a need for 2b or 3b (roberts can move from 3b to 2b), and has a “surplus” (is there ever such a thing) of pitching
QUICK! trade moustakas before people realize he’s ian stewart in disguise!
I’m bearish on Moustakas and that’s still a silly comp.
Don’t look at record. Look at runs scored. This team is only ‘pitching away’
Plus their pythagorean record based on runs scored / runs allowed is much better than their actual record – still not great but much better.
The Braves aren’t exactly desperate for a 3B to take over after Chipper as long as Prado’s around. Interesting thought, though.
Seattle has loads of high end pitching talent in the system (Paxton, Hultzen, Pineda, Walker, Campos). They definitely can afford to unload one or more of them to pick up some bats. The Royals and M’s were identified at the trade deadline as possible trade partners for this reason then. I really like the idea if the Royals are interested. The best part is that both sides have young, affordable, team controlled players to swap.
I wonder how a Jurrjens/Hanson Prado for Moose would look for both sides.
We’ll never know.
Given the way Wren has operated (keeping all that pitching), it would likely take more than Moustakas to get Jurrjens or Hanson. And that’s not a deal I see KC making.
Would the Royals have any interest in Carl Pavano?
Pavano is going to be 36 next season. I don’t think so.
The Royals have turned over a good 50% of their roster from the start of the season. They’ve brought up Hosmer, Giavotella, Moustakas, and Perez, trading Betemit and Aviles. As to the rotation they’ve added Paulino, dumped Davies and optioned Mazzaro and O’Sullivan. They’ve rolled out an all-rookie bullpen (except Soria). This year, in particular, you can’t judge the current team by their record.
They’ve shown all the signs of being an offensive powerhouse next year. The rookie infielders will have had a year to adjust to the big leagues. The older (27, all of them) outfielders finally seem to be collectively reaching their primes. The bullpen should be a little more mature. The only gap is in starting pitching. The organization still has a fountain of prospects that are about to be blocked for a few years, so what’s wrong with moving a few of them to bolster the rotation?
Montgomery, Dwyer and Lamb may well be the starters of the future, but each looks to be a couple of years off (Montgomery MIGHT make it up next year). Bridging the gap with a 2-year deal for a legitimate #1 or #2 makes sense.
Ill throw out this proposal…
Braves Get: Moustakas and Eibner.
Royals Get: Hanson, O’Flaherty, Spruill
I tend to think it would take significantly more than Moustakas and Eibner just to get Hanson, given that he has 4 more years of team control. The Braves window to win coincides with Hanson’s years of team control–and Chipper Jones just said he plans to play out his contract during 2012 (for 13 million). If the Braves were to trade a rotation cog like Hanson, it would likely take an overwhelming return in prospects (which Moustakas still is), or a big bat in a win-now trade. And from KC’s perspective it’s probably just a sideways move if they trade Moustakas + significant prospects for Hanson.
If I were the Braves I would want Cheslor Cuthbert over Moustakas, he is farther away, but his upside is significantly higher… Cuthbert, Colon, and a C level prospect for Jurrjens? They also liked Lorenzo Cain quite a bit while he was in Milwaukee.