Here's the latest from the AL East….
- The Red Sox are not in on Jair Jurrjens, but the Orioles, Blue Jays, Rockies and Tigers remain in on the Braves right-hander, according to Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (on Twitter).
- The Orioles are still interested in Chunichi Dragons left-hander Wei-Yin Chen, reports Roch Kubatko of MASNsports.com, and the team has scouted Chen several times in Japan. The O's were linked to Chen earlier this offseason and we've also heard that the PIrates had an interest in the free agent southpaw. MLBTR's Tim Dierkes predicted Chen could be signed for a contract in the neighborhood of four years and under $20MM.
- Rays third baseman Evan Longoria texted the St. Petersburg Times (reported by The Times' Marc Topkin) to deny recent internet rumors that he wanted to leave Tampa Bay. "I don't have any idea where that rumor came from! It's completely false,'' Longoria said. "I've said from the start I love Tampa, I love the direction we are heading as a franchise and there is no better place for me to continue to grow as a player and person.''
- The Yankees have been quiet this winter seemingly in an attempt to avoid a hefty luxury tax penalty next season, but one AL executive doesn't think this strategy will last. "I think they can sit back right now," the anonymous exec told The Star-Ledger's Jeff Bradley, "because on paper they have a very strong team. But do I think the Yankees won't spend aggressively if they start to dip in the win column? Not a chance. I think they'll do what they have to do to win."
- The Athletics wanted right-hander Noah Syndergaard from the Blue Jays as part of any trade for Gio Gonzalez, reported Jeff Blair on the Fan590's Prime Time Sports radio show (passed on by Andrew Stoeten of the Drunk Jays Fans blog.) Syndergaard was drafted 38th overall by Toronto in the 2010 draft and has posted impressive numbers in his first two years of pro ball.
- Earlier today, MLBTR's Ben Nicholson-Smith posted a collection of Red Sox notes.
Who would blame Longoria for wanting to leave? They play in the worst ballpark and have the worst fans in the entire league.
The Oakland Athletics fans may disagree with you.
Fans? I think you mean fan.
Fans? I think you mean fan.
Bring him to Detroit!
Pretty sure Toronto has the worst ball park in the league…
No rain delays
same with the trop
But the Jays can let the sun shine when its sunny.
sure can
I don’t think you’d want Florida heat in your park during the Summer- it’s hell.
Compared to the trop? seriously?
As a Canadian, I can testify to it being pretty awful.
As a Canadian, I can testify to it being pretty awful.
Worst fans or no fans? If you meant worst then you just sound like you have a bias.
No..they have the worst fan base…They also play in an area with only a fraction of the population of other teams. And I’ll tell you what…I’d rather sit in the Trop than bake outside in the 100 degree heat with 95% humidity down here and it’s not that bad (Have you even been there?) Those of us that are actually fans are loyal to the team and have WAY more class than many other places..atleast our fans don’t almost beat someone to death or pour beer and spit on a visiting players wife or throw beer and other things at outfielders from the other team….
PREACH!
I doubt Longoria wants to leave Tampa. It is one of the best teams in baseball. Smartest baseball operations with tremendous prospect funnel.
Did you hear Evan Longoria is being traded to the Houston Astros……………
The Yankees will do what they have to do to win, yes, but they do have their payroll limits like every other team. I know I’m stating the obvious but seems like it always needs to be said almost every year.
Don’t know why you would need to. I think it’s clear everybody understands this, but lets not go crazy. Fact is their payroll limits are not like every other team. It’s significantly higher than most teams and they’ve shown they’re not afraid to spend what’s needed if there’s someone they really want.
On Jurrjens, I don’t see where the Toronto interest in him could be. I think he’s benefitted from pitching in the NL and would otherwise have Brett Cecil like numbers if he were in the AL East. There’s nothing about him that in any way puts him in a class with Latos or Gonzalez.
Dunno about that. I don’t have the numbers here as I’m in the car but his small sample size against AL East teams isn’t too shabby. I believe its like 39IP and a sub 3 Era
38.2 innings pitched (none against the Rays) with 8 ER’s . I can’t figure out how to do the exact math on it , but it’s an ERA below 2 seeing how he has logged 2.2 extra innings than 36 which would be 4 games at 9 innings and in the estimated 4 games (36 innings not including the extra 2.2) he only gave up 8 ER’s . Which just going on the 36 innings , his ERA would be 2.00 . So it would be below that after the extra 2.2 I didn’t figure in . My head hurts now .
Thats a 1.88 ERA, but too small a sample size. Its not just playing the teams though, its playing in the HR friendly Rogers Center, Yankee Stadium, and Fenway.
Like you said , it’s a small sample size . BUT , he has pitched 6.1 innings at Fenway with a 2.84 ERA and 8 innings at Toronto (Rogers Center) and didn’t give up a run . I don’t think his transition into the AL or AL East would hurt his production as much as some might think .
He IS NOT Roy Halladay , but I will use him as reference seeing how he was in the AL East for years and is now in the NL East . Roy’s last 2 years in the AL East had his ERA just under 2.80 . His ERA in the NL East has been around 2.40 . That’s a .40 run difference . His ERA (not including his first 7 starts of his career in Detroit) is around 3.25 . Let’s just say he does get traded into the AL East . you take his 3.25 estimated career ERA and add .40 to it and you still have a decent 3.65 ERA . Thats a pretty good ERA for a pitcher in the AL East . Or best case senario , you get the Jurrjens fromm last year or from 2009 and get a pitcher with a respectable 3.20-3.40 ERA . In the AL east , he could be a 15+ game winner with a ERA that low .
I think Halladay is a bad example for this, but I agree, I think pitching in the AL east typically yields an ERA 10-15% higher than pitching elsewhere.
But every pitcher is different. Rauch is a flyball pitcher, his ERA went through the roof pitching at the Rogers center.
With Jurrjens, stuff isn’t the issue, its consistency and health.
That sample size is small to the point of being completely useless. Basically one start against each team is not enough to go on for anyone. Kason Gabbard has, to this day, a career ERA at Fenway Park of 1.51 (Man, I remember a point where a lot of Red Sox fans were touting him as out best pitching prospect) in 36 IP, but that didn’t stop him from essentially bombing out of the MLB after only two and a half seasons.
Never trust a SSS.
Jurrjens is only 25 and a team would have 2 more years of him. He has had better numbers then Latos. Better WAR then Latos. In Latos best year (last year he had a 3.2 while Jurrjens this year had 3.8 while only throwing 152 inn. bc of nagging injuries. Jurrjens best year was 5.3. Jurrjens is equal in terms of Latos return package only turnoff is the nagging injuries even though they haven’t been w/ his arm. Braves would be wise to hold onto him and trade him during mid season.
Latos has much more trade value than Jurrjens. For one thing, he has four more years of team control. Also, he is a strikeout pitcher that won’t be affected by moving to a small ballpark. Jurrjens is a fly ball pitcher that needs to play on teams with at least a pitching neutral ballpark. Finally, as you mentioned, Jurrjens is injury prone.
Gio Gonzalez and Jurrjens are very similar, but Latos is much better than either of them.
Yes, he has 2 more years but Jurrjens has pitched better then him. Relatively the same age. Latos does have more trade value bc of the years and Jurrjens nagging injuries. That’s why I mentioned that the Braves should hold onto him to get his trade value at his highest peak and then trade him.
Dear Frank Wren,
Please do not sell low on JJ or Prado.
Thanks.
neither latos nor gonzalez has ever had as good a season as jurrjens had in 2009…
And he would have won at least 3 more games (for a total of 17) that season if he even had remotely decent run support. 2.60 ERA and only 14-10 record…?
Jurrjens isn’t in the class of Latos. However, Gonzalez and Jurrjens are roughly equivalent pitchers.
correct, both aren’t that good
Jurrjens isn’t in the class of Latos. However, Gonzalez and Jurrjens are roughly equivalent pitchers.
Who else do you think the A’s asked for Gio Gonzalez with Syndergaard?
I dont see how Syndergaard would be untouchable. .
I think any team with control over someone with a name like Syndergaard would consider them untouchable.
you might want to learn about jays prospects then….he has front line starter written all over him
DUR WE HAVE A HOMER OVER HERE
Syndergaard is ranked ahead of Deck McGuire for Jays prospects.
and?
what kind of player do you expect to trade for with out including someone decent.
Trust me, if we could send Eric Thames and Brett Cecil for a starting pitcher, I would be down.
but you must give to get.
How does that make him “untouchable”. Wasn’t Drabek “untouchable”? Besides, Lunchbox is a very knowledgeable JAYS FAN.
yea, no ones going to call a kid with only 60 pro innings to his credit untouchable. short of the strasburg-harper-trout type guys, no prospects are untouchable, not even d’arnaud.
It doesn’t really matter because the moment they mentioned Syndergaart, who has ace potential for a number 3 pitcher in Gonzalez, the talks died.
Gonzalez is number 2 at least (top 30-60 SP in baseball). Some people might say he’s top 30 (number 1). He had the 19th best ERA in the bigs among qualified SP. 17th in strikeouts.
I think the Jays will be lucky if Syndergaard can put up those types of numbers.
Gonzalez is a #2 AT BEST. A good rotation will have him at #3. A weak at #2. A terrible at #1. The Phillies at #5.
Well, I see it as #1’s are top 30, #2’s are 30-60 etc. There’s no way he isn’t in the top 60 category right now. He has an aweful lot of numbers in the “top 30” area.
ERA isn’t a great way to define a pitcher’s value whatsoever. By those standards a Brandon Morrow, or Roy Oswalt is worse than Freddy Garcia because Garcia has a lower ERA. This is “yours” and many other general fans’ talent evaluation, which is ridiculous. Gio would get lit up in the AL East and may even get lit up with the offenses in the NL East. He has a horrendous walk rate, an FIP at least 0.5 higher than his ERA the last couple of seasons, and his HR rate will soar in Nationals Park. On the other hand, we have a flame-throwing tall righty, who has solid secondary offerings, with terrific K rates and good walk rates, with ace potential.
Him on top of possibly D’Arnaud and another prospect or two, no thanks at all.
You don’t just look at ERA, but it is a pitchers defining statistic. His job is to stop runs from scoring.
Gio would have it rough in the AL east, but “lit up” is hardly accurate. A guy like Garza gets ERA’s ain the 3.8-4 range in the AL East, and then 3.3ish in the NL Central. Very comparable to Gio’s 3.3 he’s gotten the past 2 seasons.
Now if you want a totally useless stat look at the FIP. It only looks at walks, strikeouts, and HR.
Also AL West teams average 688 runs on the season, while NL East teams averaged 664 runs. So if anything moving to the NL East should help Gio (by your own logic).
But I agree with you about not dealing prospects for these pitchers. The market is set way too high.
Where was Gio ranked in BB/9?
He Had the most walks of any pitcher in MLB. But then again, he gives up so few hits that it compensates. He was 61st in WHIP, but walks are not as good as hits (no matter what they say). This is evident by his 19th best ERA.
walks aren’t as good as hits but there is more luck involved getting a single than a walk, most times getting a single is just hitting the ball to the right spot, from a pitcher’s perspective limiting hits would be akin to batters hitting the ball right at your fielders
These starters face close to 1000 hitters a year, the law of averages works itself out on that one.
Also, I would say pitchers have a heckova lot to do with how many hits they give up. Its a lot easier to hit a single if a Jesse Litsche cutter up and in than it is to hit one off Romero’s changeup. Its not just the “hitting” and “missing” aspect. Well placed pitchers will lead to soft ground balls. Poorly placed ones get hit hard into the outfield. Generally the latter yields more hits.
61st in WHIP is an extremely deceptive stat when not accounting for the fact that figure is out of a relatively small field.
Per Fangraphs, he was 58th in WHIP out of a possible 90 qualifying pitchers last year, which is a pretty bad number that wouldn’t take kindly to being moved out of a park that suppresses offense in general.
Here’s where he ranks on the last two seasons (Out of a possible 85 qualifying pitchers):
37th in WAR
36th in FIP
50th in xFIP
21st in K/9
85th in BB/9 (MLB worst for starters)
17th in ERA-
43rd in FIP-
53rd in SIERA
22nd in tERA
19th in ERA
54th in WHIP
Now given, all of those stats align as “top 30-60,” but one has to account for the fact that your calculation for determining a 1-5 pitcher is extremely sketchy in that it assumes there are 150 SP’ers at all times when in reality, as noted, there are only 85 qualifying pitchers in the last two seasons (Gonzalez’s two good seasons). Ergo, a more accurate assessment of “placement” would be in increments of seventeen (1-17 would be #1, 18-34 #2 and so on).
Now here’s where it gets really complex. As you can see, Gonzalez is all over the place. Things like ERA/ERA- have him as a borderline #1 while other stats have him as high as a #4. Obviously, it’s going to be somewhere closer to the middle as each of these things has its issues (ERA/ERA- don’t account for park factor, something that’s been a HUGE advantage for him on his career while some of his lower stats don’t account for defensive issues behind him). If we go with an admittedly less than scientific method (But better than just cherry picking), we come to an aggregate of those placements of 39.73, placing him firmly as a high #3.
All told when looking at everything peripheral-wise and accounting for the fact he benefits from a very large home/road split in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in the MLB, his true talent level is probably that of a #3 pitcher, #2 pitcher at best on a thinner pitching staff.
No, no, no. The reason only 90 or so pitchers get qualified is because there are only that many good enough to be qualified in the first place. You can’t break up the top innings guys and say they must be split 1-5, thats nuts.
FIP is 100% useless, and WAR is 50% useless (though it generally gets it right), and the rest are all in his favour (with the exception of walks, but he gives up so few hits that it doesn’t matter). But heres another way of doing it. Look at the 30 MLB teams and tell me if he is a #1 or 2 on 15 or more teams? You will have no trouble getting to 15.
Gonzalez is number 2 at least (top 30-60 SP in baseball). Some people might say he’s top 30 (number 1). He had the 19th best ERA in the bigs among qualified SP. 17th in strikeouts.
I think the Jays will be lucky if Syndergaard can put up those types of numbers.
Syndergaard straight up for Gonzalez might have been an okay-ish deal. Anything more and pass.
wow…..
what gm in their right mind wouldnt trade a prospect with barely any pro experience for a proven 2-3 starter?
he just doesn’t really like gonzalez..
I’m in the same camp, but I would have said, I wouldn’t move anything of value for gio..
Trust me your team is sad that he didn’t come to the AL east
Gio is incredibly overrated. He has strikeout potential, and that’s about it
If you copy the nats trade, They probably wanted D’Arnaud and 1/2 more pitching prospects (take your pick). Not worth it.
Jurrjens is an interesting pitcher. Should cost a team less than Gio or Latos.
I have to think they wanted a package of 4 players (like the Nats gave them) including Syn and prolly 2 other jays SP prospects. Not worth it. Some teams have really tossed away the farm this offseason. Glad the Jays ain’t one of them.
I can accept the fact that some people think that some Braves fans overvalue Jurrjens . But I honestly can say that he probably is worth what Wren is asking for . If you were to just look at his stats alone , you wouldn’t be overly impressed . And he continually pitches better than his stats says that he should . I don’t belive in ‘luck’ , especially when he has done it more than just 1 year . If it were not for his knee last year , he could have possibly won 17+ games last year (where he won 13 in only 2/3 of a season) on a Braves team who’s offense wasn’t exactly great last year . His biggest question mark , to me , would be wether or not he could stay healthy . But he is only 25 years of age (which is just as young as some prospects this year) , none of his injuries have been anything related to his shoulder or his arm . So I really don’t see why he couldn’t be able to come back and be able to pitch like he did in 2009 where he pitched 215 innings and had an ERA of 2.60 .
With all that being said , I would think that some team would realize that and would see enough value there to make a deal for him .
Oh health is the difference. Gio and Latos pitched around 400 innings (cummulative) in the past 2 seasons. Jurrjens pitched 268 innings.
Can’t see anybody breaking the bank if they don’t know if the guy can pitch 200 innings. Only had 7 wins in 2010. Tough to forget that.
Umm….nobody has forgotten the past . That 7 win season was an injury season . But if you want to look back at the past , why didn’t you mention the 215 innings pitched and the ERA of 2.60 he posted back in 2009 ?
Because nobody is going to pay the same price for him if he can only pitch 200(ish) innings 1 out of every 3 seasons. Latos and Gio have done it 2 in a row.
As a team looking to acquire a player (for the long term) you can’t look at him and see his injury filled past, and assume he’ll never have an injury again.
2009 was 3 years ago. He has to show he can do it again.
But you cannot deny 2009 either . Because 2009 shows what he is capable of in a full season . The whole injury thing has gotten out of hand . It wasn’t his shoulder or his arm . And he is only 25 . You can’t give up on a player and devalue him when he is that young . If he was 35+ , going on the last few years of his career , then yeah , I would be worried . But he hasn’t even hit his prime yet .
Yes you can. When a guy is 25, and can only say he had one season as a consistent, dominant pitcher, then you can’t trade for him as if he’s a dominant consistent pitcher. (not to mention that it was 3 years ago).
He is a gamble. The ceilling is high, but so is the risk.
And I say you can trade him for a prospect for the very reason you just stated . It’s a risk to trade for any prospect who has yet to see ML level talent . So if you think that it’s taking a risk to trade for Jurrjens . It would be just as much of a risk to trade for any prospect . Not every prospect turns into a good ML talent . Many of them have busted .
OK, but thats why it took four good prospects to get Gonzalez. Jurrjens wont go for the same as he’s a risk.
OK, but thats why it took four good prospects to get Gonzalez. Jurrjens wont go for the same as he’s a risk.
Yes, Braves fans overvalue Jurrjens. Too many people are fooled by his low ERA. He is a #3 starter type with two years of team control left. He won’t get as much in return as Gio Gonzalez (has four years of team control) but the Braves should be able to get a couple of good prospects for him or a similarly valued outfielder.
Jurrijens is at worst a co-#1 starter on most teams he is a true “ACE”. He has the stats to prove it. I would rather have him than Latos or Gio any day. He is not a power pitcher, but neither was Maddox or Glavine and they are both 300+ winners. Jurrijens is worth everything Wren has asked for and probably even more. He is not a “prospect” but a true proven elite starter for any team.
Jurrjens elite? Really?
I don’t think I would call him an elite pitcher either . But I do think he would be a valuable pitcher for just about any team looking to improve their staff .
He’s not Elite, but a healthy JJ is a #2 pitcher.
I’d be willing to keep him, re-sign him, decline Hudson’s option and use that money to pay JJ long-term, then deal Hanson if Teheran or Beachy breaks through this year.
Yuck…c’mon, man. Sign him long-term with Boras? No thanks. We still haven’t benefitted from having this pitching depth and we definitely won’t do that by locking up Jurrjens long-term, if we’re overpaying for him.
I don’t mind Hudson’s option, plus there’s a season that separates Hudson’s option and JJ’s free agency – presuming that Boras will follow his agenda and advise Jurrjens to seek free agency in 2014.
And deal Hanson??? He’s 25! You’d be selling low on Hanson. Compare Hanson to where Halladay was at at the same age and you’ll see they’re not far off.
Hanson pitching motion scares me . There was a lot of talk before last year about his delivery and the possibility of a future injury . And then this year he had an injury with his shoulder . If Jurrjens is traded , I would let Hanson build up his value and sell high on him the next offseason and resign Hudson for a few more years .
I agree, Hanson’s delivery is somewhat scary, but I can’t think that he would already be making adjustments if he’s receiving medical advice saying that his pitching motion is what is causing his shoulder problems, and possibly future problems. If he were a mid-level prospect, I’d agree with you. But this guy has elite potential and unfortunately, we just have to handle him like TOR handled Halladay back in the day and hope he works his kinks out and grows into the pitcher we all expect him to be.
Actually JJ is elite and the other elite pitcher in the Brave’s rotation you just said decline his option. Have you ever seen a baseball game at the major league level? Why would you want to delete your co-#1 starter in Hudson? Trade Hanson if Beachy or Teheran breaks through, no way you keep your best which for the Braves are, Hudson, Jurrijens, Hanson, Beachy, Teheran, Medlin, Delgado, Vizcano, and Minor. When one gets hurt or the schedule says you need a rested pitcher you have one of the above to call up without losing quality.
He may be al those things you say (though I doubt it), but one thing he is not is proven. He needs an injury free year to fetch what latos and Gio got.
Agreed. He’s not consistent like Gonzalez, though that can change fast. And how can an “elite” pitcher never have a 15-win season in 4+ seasons of play?
Being a Det. fan, i hated to see him traded away, because i felt he had what it takes. But i agree with you, he needs an injury free year to prove his worth.. That being said i’d love DET> to get him back.(for the right price-no BOESCH)
The Jays don’t need a under-powering pitcher in the over-powering AL East, no thanks.
Braves and Tigers fans both overvalue Jurrjens. Match made in heaven.
“Too many people are fooled by his low ERA.”
Doesn’t ERA stand for earned runs allowed . If so , doesn’t that imply that he at least finds a way to limit the runs scored upon him which would allow his team a chance to win if he keeps it low ?
The Braves had one of the best starting rotations last year . Guess who was our best pitcher before he got hurt ? He may not be an ace on some of the better ballclubs . But he would be on about half of all the other clubs .
His FIP isn’t that impressive.
Regardless , he seems to find a way in leverage situations to get outs and keep the scoring at a minimum . He would be one pitcher I would use to say that their are flaws in the advanced stats system .
he would get wrecked in the AL east, soft tossers always do.
I’d compare JJ to Marcum, and Marcum got chewed in the the east
His 2008-2010 numbers in Toronto are pretty good. 3.53 ERA. His ERA with the Brewers this season was 3.54.
He’s pitched quite well against the AL East . I do see his ERA going up about .25-.50 per/9 . But he should still be able to sustain an ERA of around 3.50 or so .
I’m not just saying this because I’m a Yankee fan but Pettitte and Mussina did very well in the AL East
Or maybe he’s just out performed his peripherals for some reason.
“Or maybe he’s just out performed his peripherals for some reason.”
You forgot to put “consistently” in there .
Maybe he does have an ability to limit the damage. His peripherals, minus ERA/ERA-, still aren’t that great, though.
And FIP isn’t perfectly correlated to a pitcher’s value, and some pitchers are undervalued and overvalued by FIP.
Which is why you don’t simply rely on one stat to determine the value of a pitcher. Unfortunately for Jurrjens, most advanced stats say he’s not a great pitcher. SIERA, tERA, FIP, xFIP all place him as an effectively middle of the road pitcher. ERA and ERA- are about the only stats that look particularly favorably on him.
I know most all would disagree , but ERA is the one that I like to look at for any pitcher . It tells you as simply as possible as to how well you keep runs from scoring against you . I doesn’t matter how you get the outs to keep the other team from scoring , as long as you are getting them . I would rather have JJ , who knows how to pitch and keep the runs at a minimum , over a pitcher who allows almost 4 runs a game and strikes out twice as many batters . You can strike out 8 or 9 a game and still have an inning where you allow 3 or 4 runs and lose . Jurrjens is never gonna strike out a ton of batters . But he will manage the situations with runners on and limit the damage and get himself out of pressure situations .
ERA is a misleading stat, though. There are other better stats to utilize when evaluating a starting pitcher.
And those other stats may work on most other pitchers . But in JJ’s case , I would have to disagree . He han’t just pitched against the peripherals in only one year . He has done it fairly consistently so far throughout his career .
How does any of that negate the fact ERA isn’t a great stat to use when evaluating starting pitchers?
You know who else outpitches his peripherals on a consistent basis? Joe Saunders.
Being healthy all year is the most important stat for him…
Agreed. And he’s had, what, one full year of health?
ERA is a misleading stat, though. There are other better stats to utilize when evaluating a starting pitcher.
I agree he is overvalued by Braves fans, but who cares what fans feel about him? But #3 starter??? What? The man was the 2nd-best SP in the NL before the AS Break last season. ATL has some of the best pitching in the NL and Jurrjens was the only All-Star SP. On many teams Jurrjens would be a #1-2 (NYM, PIT, BAL, KC, CLE, NYY, CHC, SD, DET, COL, MIN, HOU), even with his injuries. Frankly, the only doubts I have against him are injury-related. When he’s healthy, he’s great. And when you consider that none of his injuries have involved his pitching arm, while I can’t see him fetching a Gonz/Latos return – something in that range wouldn’t be far off.
I still think they need to hold onto him unless they’re blown away, let him pitch the first part of the season where he’s golden, build his stock like last year and sell him at the deadline.
Hanson should have gone to the AS game as well over Voglesong . Bochy showed a little favortism there .
In Detroit he would be a #4 pitcher! In order to be #3 he would have to stay healthy all year & prove his “WORTH”!
His stats against the AL East and in their ballparks might suprise you , albeit they being from small sample sizes . He has actually done rather well .
Jair is a stud, just watch him keep that sub 3 era next season and possibly a Cy candidate next season and we all no that was BS with his sub 2 era and didn’t get to start the Allstar game. Hope he don’t get traded n show every other team this chance they blew to acquire him.
I don’t know about him being a stud . But I can easily see him coming back to pitch 185+ innings , winning 15+ , and having an ERA around 3.25 . If it weren’t for our logjam in the starting rotation , I don’t think the Braves would be dangling him for trade bait . But where it stands right now , the Braves have as many as 8 ML ready starting pitchers on the roster . So someone may have to go .
I agree on the being a stud at the moment but the dude definitely has it in him. I’d like to see him healthy for a full season and give us some stats that will finally shut these people whining about him not being worth it.
Unfortunately , alot of these people that have doubts can only pass judgement on what they see in stats and what they have heard about him . Not many of them have actually seen him pitch more than 1 or 2 games . And if I were to just look at what a piece of paper were telling me , I might have some doubts as well . But actually getting to see him pitch every night , you realize that he knows how to pitch . He may not have the most dominating stuff . But he uses what he has and uses it well enough to be productive . I don’t think he has to throw the ball 93-94 MPH to be effective . All he has to do , is pitch to spots , change his speeds and keep batters guessing like he did last year . He doesn’t have to be flashy by striking out a lot of batters to be productive .
How about Brennan Boesch, Casey Crosby and a B-level prospect for Jurrjens and a C-level prospect/bad contract?
The only really bad contracts on the Braves right now are Chipper, Derek Lowe’s $10mil leftover, and Diaz (at $2mil)
No real options there. Chipper at least is worth the contract almost when he’s healthy, and he’s a HOFer who took hometown discounts over his career- I don’t grudge his contract. Lowe was a panic move 5 years ago, and paying the price now. Diaz was a cheap deadline deal, but I think he’s done.
That said, those pieces you offered. Boesch is LH, which is what the Braves don’t need at all, and Crosby- there’s no need for pitching prospects in the Braves system.
I think to get JJ- you’d need to offer a really good SS, mashing corner OF, or good CF prospect, maybe a 3B prospect. They’re set at 1B, 2B (when Uggla declines I think Pastornicky slides to 2B if he pans out with the bat), C, and RF. Prado can cover one of the other holes, except SS. At SS the Braves are hoping Andrelton Simmons pans out with the bat, his glove is ML-ready.
pitching they are set for years both starting and BP.
Those are the areas of future need potentially.
We need a right fielder. Unless you’re suggesting Raburn replace Boesch in RF?
(Don’t even mention Cespedes. I don’t want to get my hopes up.)
There is always Delmon Young . You know , that guy your FO tried to throw at us a while back . LOL .
Delmon Young would probably be disastrous in RF, even worse than Raburn.
Hey , we can agree on something . Cool .
playedthegame, “NO BOESCH!”
To Mr. Heyman…how do you define “in”? “In” as in had meaningless talks because they aren’t offering enough and too stubborn or dense to take no for an answer or “in” as in actually having an acceptable offer on the table and waiting for the Braves to make up their minds?
don’t worry braves fans…who cares what people on here think? They all have strong opinions but have never seen the pitchers up for debate actually pitch. You are going to have to wade through the following typical comments: “He will get lit up in the AL East”…”He is a #3 at best”…”He will be the Philies 6th starter”…”His Fip and BABIP are terrible and he is due to regress”…”(Insert team prospect and the following homer valuation) is too valuable for him and should be untouchable in trade talks”…..it’s a joke..A’s fans just went through it with Gio…one thing I know, the Nats got a legit #2 with a ceiling of a number 1…whoever gets JJ will get a very good pitcher that will make their rotation much better.
I saw him pitch both here in Detroit and in Atlanta, so I guess my opinion trumps everyone else’s~
You can’t use those 7 games as a rookie in Detroit . He has become a much different pitcher since then .
I was being sarcastic.
We need a sarcasm font .
But seriously, everyone overrates Jurrjens. The Tigers fans did it, and the Braves fans are doing it now. It’s not that he has no value, it’s that he’s not as valuable as you think he is.
Some people actually legitimately think Jurrjens is a better pitcher than Verlander because Jurrjens has a better career ERA!!!
As a Braves fan , Verlander>Jurrjens . But Jurrjens still is a top of the rotation guy . If you want a flashy pitcher , Jurrjens is not the pitcher for you . But if you a guy who is just as young as a lot of prospects who enter the league these days and has learned how to pitch with what he has and be productive doing so , then Jurrjens is the guy you want . He’s not gonna wow you . But when healthy , he’ll have around 14+ wins (maybe more on a team with an offense who can score more than a couple of runs a game) and an ERA around 3.25+ .
One of the problems is Jurrjens has rarely had a full season of health. He was seen as injury prone in the Tigers’ organization, and he hasn’t exactly escaped that label since going to Atlanta. I think health should factor in, as far as a player’s value goes. Would you give up the farm for a good player who has a history of injuries? It’s a big risk to take, and I don’t blame some fans for not wanting their team to take that risk.
I also don’t think Jurrjens is worth what the Braves will presumably be asking for.
The only thing with that is he is only 25 and has only pitched for 4 seasons (not counting the 7 starts his rookie season) . He’s basically getting started . I have heard of guys coming up that had a history of injuries that has been able to shake them off and have decent careers . But I have rarely ever heard of anyone who has had that same problem and was unable at some point recover and decided to just retire . I’m not saying that you are implying that he is heading down that road , retiring . But some people act as though he has no future because of a couple non shoulder or arm injuries . But that’s ok . I know some people are gonna think I’m nuts , but I would personally rather see us trade Hanson instead of Jurrjens . I think Hanson is the one that may end up with a career ending injury .
Hanson pitching motion scares me . There was a lot of talk before last year about his delivery and the possibility of a future injury . And then this year he had an injury with his shoulder . If Jurrjens is traded , I would let Hanson build up his value and sell high on him the next offseason and resign Hudson for a few more years .