Here are a few items about John Danks' five-year, $65MM extension with the White Sox, which was officially announced today…
- Danks has a full no-trade clause for the first year of his contract, reports MLB.com's Scott Merkin. Danks will have partial no-trade protection for the remaining four years, able to block deals to six teams.
- The extension "really did come out of nowhere," Danks told media (including CSN Chicago's Chuck Garfien) during a conference call today. "Obviously, there was a lot of trade talk, and you can’t help but wonder and think…But I think I kind of took the attitude that until something happens I was going to prepare to be with the White Sox. Fortunately, this came along and I couldn’t be happier.”
- As Garfien notes, this is the first time the White Sox have ever given a pitcher a five-year deal. Owner Jerry Reinsdorf prefers to keep pitchers on contracts of three years or less due to concerns about health and consistency.
- From the same conference call, GM Kenny Williams said his comments earlier this month about the White Sox beginning a "rebuilding" phase were misconstrued. "We are still in win mode,” Williams said. “But at the same time that you’re in win mode, you can be in a little bit of a rebuilding phase, and I tried to articulate that, although I guess that message got lost after I said we were rebuilding. I tried to articulate that it wouldn’t be dominoes falling in terms of a true rebuilding because we have too many good veterans, and veterans looking to bounce back.”
I’m sure as hell no White Sox fan, but the Santos/Molina deal was a huge win for the South Side.
They have a pretty solid core. Their “competitive rebuilding” won’t take very long.
Agree on point 1, not on 2. Molina looks like he will be a very good pitcher, but the Sox have a long way to go. Peavy, Dunn, and Rios all have to get back to form or it will be a long few years.
I feel like Peavy and Dunn could turn it around…Rios, I’m not so sure of.
Peavy is not a problem when he is healthy, it’s BEING HEALTHY that is the problem. Dunn SHOULD be able to turn it around, his track record is too great. Rios…….he worries me a ton.
Agree with one exception peavys contract ends after this up coming season
Don’t worry, they’ll be supplementing it by giving Danks 14M after Peavy Leaves.
It’s not like it’s a horrible deal it’s pretty much market value for a good young left hander
Really? Wilson got 15M (to Danks 14.25M over his FA years) with much better numbers.
He’s 32 yrs old.???????????????????
I know a lot of 26 year old pitchers, none of which anyone would honestly consider giving that kind of money. Danks is one of them.
If Danks and Wilson were on the same par of pitching levels, you would have an argument. But one is definatively superior.
I agree. Right or wrong, Danks got market value . Most teams looking for pitching would have offered that deal.
Anything will be better last year. They will improve. Can’t go any lower
They are without Jackson and Buehrle. Plus they traded their closer. Yeah I think it can get worse.
Detroit also will have Fister and Delmon Young for the full year, plus whoever they sign in January.
I also think it can get worse than the 16 games out last year.
If you assume none of Danks, Rios, Beckham, Rios, and Dunn bounce back. And I think Chris Sale in the rotation will surpass anything Jackson did for us last season. I think this team will still hover around the .500 mark next year.
If all of those players bounce back and Sale has a good year, then they will likely do better. I’m a betting man, and I wouldn’t put money on that. I can see Rios, but something is really wrong with Dunn.
I’m not betting their do better next year either, especially if Kenny ends up trading Quentin and Floyd and Thornton. But even if just Dunn and Danks bounce back, you are talking 5-7 wins right there.
Yeah, and you’re guaranteed to lose 3-5 wins from other players being missing or having injuries, or off years. That logic never works out.
Jays fans are the worst for that. They think they’ll get a few more wins because Litsch will be healthy and Overbay/Wells will bounce back, and then niether happens, more players get injured and the team loses more games.
Dunn returning to form would be huge though. Its a big wild card.
I’m talking about it being a wash between some players bouncing back, and some players being traded. This is not an old team where the core of the group should expect decline. This is a young team that should only see improvement, outside of Konerko and AJ. This team is likely destined for 72-78 wins next year. If ALL the players bounce back, and we DON’T dump our veterans in a rebuilding effort, this team could win around 90+ games, but the chances are pretty damn slim.
The White Sox have to slash payroll, they have Rios, Dunn, Peavy contracts for close to 100 million dollars, the farm system is the worst in baseball, attendance is dropping every year, and the GM has no idea of what to do next.
The “competitive rebuilding” may take a while.
Rios, Dunn, and Peavy won’t even combine for HALF of the $100M you claim. They will make $43M next year combined. Yes, the farm system is awful, yes attendance is and will be a problem (although I am pretty sure they have always remained in the top half of baseball), and to say the GM has no idea what to do next is not fair at all. This team could easily be competitive by 2014. Don’t forget the AL Central is no powerhouse division.
100 mill for the entire contracts. I should have worded it differently.
$103M, yes, but that’s spread out over 7 years (plus 2 buyout years). So that’s an average of 14.7M a year. Terrible, sure, but at least they are spread out some.
3 calendar years. Rios has 3 years left, Dunn has 3 more years and Peavy has 1 with a 4 million dollar payout.
By the 2015 season, the Sox will be rid of those contracts.
I mean like 7 seasons worth of play. You know what I’m getting at? Like in 2012, we will get 3 seasons from them because we are getting 3 separate values. Either way, we agree that these guys are money sucks. (Well, Rios is for sure. Peavy is good when healthy, and I think Dunn will bounce back for sure)
3 calendar years. Rios has 3 years left, Dunn has 3 more years and Peavy has 1 with a 4 million dollar payout.
By the 2015 season, the Sox will be rid of those contracts.
Wow. So you only sign pitchers for 3 years, but Danks is the exception? Shoulda stuck to the rule. Can’t see White Sox fans looking back at this contract as a good deal.
right because the deal is a gross overpay for a bad 26 year old pitcher…
Not a bad pitcher. Take out the first year, and its a 14.25 average salary. Thats about what Roy Halladay made at the same age.
Why would you eliminate the year in which he makes $8M? Because it hurts your argument? His AAV on this contract is $13M. His worst full season in the bigs was 2009, when he put up a 2.9 WAR and was worth $13.1M. Assuming he remains healthy, he is a LOCK to outperform his contract.
The year he makes 8M is his arbitration year, it does not reflect his free agent value.
Again this WAR to contract value scale is warped. By that logic Halladay and Lincecum should make 50 million each.
Yes, they should. But they won’t because there is an “invisible ceiling”, if you will, for player contracts. One day we MAY get to the point where players make $50M a year. But until we do, no MVP-type player will ever get paid what he is technically worth (assuming he dominate each year).
Ahhh, now this is my favorite argument of all. Danks deserves 14M, and Halladay deserves more than the entire Rays Payroll. Maybe its time to stop and think about whether this pay scale of yours is completely accurate.
This is Fangraphs bro, not some crazy numbers we are all making up . Take the time to check out that website, you might learn a thing or to.
I think you need to take the time and actually look at fangraphs honestly. Is this really giving out accurate information?
If it is saying halladay should make 50M (more than the rays entire team) do you really think this is a working system?
No. Because for some reason fangraphs has created an entire wave of people like you who think they are perfect and snort at anyone who questions their bizarre formulas and questionable methodology.
See, you seem to be operating by taking the best players in baseball, looking at their salary, and saying “Well, that must be what they are worth”, and then working backwards from there. Whereas Fangraphs does the opposite and takings a replacement level player’s worth and works up. The people who make their formula’s are much smarter than you or I.
Take a second to look at the formula’s. Trust me, high school programmers could have come up with that stuff.
Market value is determined by…the MARKET. Using that as a basis for value is only the foundation of economics. Fangraphs works backwards.
And surely someone at fangraphs who are “smarter than you and I” could see the obvious flaw in a model that analyses replacement players values, and extrapolates upwards (linearly). Where else in society is that ever done? Do we extrapolate the value of large houses based on the increased square footage of small houses? Do we extrapolate the value of powerful cars based on the price and horsepower of cheap cars? If its nonsense in the real world, why does it make sense in baseball?
This is why it only works for fans. Because MLB clubs have stats guru’s who can asily infer that this nonsense is useless.
He’s not great but he’s a very solid pitcher worth locking up with some good years ahead of him. He’s not the guy you DON’T make the exception for. If anything, he’s a guy you want post rebuilding.
Actually, Buehrle was the exception when he signed a 4 year deal in 2007.
Buehrle is the kind of guy who would be the exception. Not Danks.
Since the start of the 2008 season Mark Buehrle FIP: 3.94, 4.46, 3.90, 3.98. John Danks FIP: 3.44, 4.59, 3.70, 3.82. Mark Buehrle also never posted a FIP below 4.00 in his first 4 years as a starter
FIP is a useless stat, it drives me nuts to see people use it. Its only based on walks, SO, and HR.
but ERA is like, so awesome.
ERA is the definition stat. A pitchers job is to allow as few runs as possible. Of course it has problems (notably, small sample sizes, ranges of opponents, infield players, ballpark, etc), but it is still usefull (though it requires careful use).
FIP on the other hand uses SO, BB, and HR, while completely bypassing the most important aspect to scoring runs (hits). There are tons of high strikeout players who have great FIP’s, but bleed runs. Brandon Morrow is a great example.
For Christ’s sake, seriously? Every comment you have made on this post has been completely invalid and you’ve just made another one. Stop it.
No, its just you guys. Ever notice that the commentators and GM’s, and coaches in interviews hardly ever come out and talk about WAR or FIP?
Its just crazy stats the fans made up because baseball fans love stats. FIP is the worst of them all.
FIP = (13HR + 3BB – 2SO)/IP + 3
Thats how they calculate it. Does it have any logical reason? Nope. Just something only the people drinking the fan graphs cool-aid will enjoy.
It’s because those are the 3 100% pitcher independent stats. The idea is that you do no involve the defense at all. You could have an incredible defense, or you could have a little little team behind you, and your FIP will be the same (minus HR that are robbed, I suppose)
I know thats the idea, I’m saying its wrong. You can’t truly analyse a pitcher while missing how many runs he lets in and how many hits he gives up.
You “could” have an increadible defense, or a really bad one. But 95% of defences make 95% of the same plays. Its a very small factor.
I’m not saying I have ever used FIP to compare pitchers, I am explaining to you it’s value.
Wasn’t it you who showed me Danks and Buerhle’s FIP numbers over the last 4 years (I apologise if it was not)?
If you don’t use FIP to compare pitchers then we are in agreement.
No, it wasn’t me.
Sorry, never mind. I apologise.
can you draw him a picture so he can conceptualize it?
You guys don’t listen. I could argue that goalies in hockey should be defined by a stat that only uses PIM’s, and passes because those are the only ones completely in the goalies control. Thats true, but its missing a heck of a lot of information that is very useful (even if its not 100% in the goalies control).
How the hell are penalty minutes and passes related to goalies at all? You make less and less sense every time you comment.
THEY AREN’T. Just like how strikeouts and Walks don’t mean as much to a pitcher as HITS and ACTUAL RUNS.
You don’t get it. You are judging a pitcher using 3 stats that dont adequately define a pitchers performance!
FIP is a useless stat, it drives me nuts to see people use it. Its only based on walks, SO, and HR.
And Danks is just like Buehrle in every way.
With all these prosepcts getting traded all over the place, looking at Molina’s numbers makes me wonder. Did the Sox get robbed, or did we rob the Jays. Santos wasn’t really the same pitcher the last month, but this was his first as a closer & really first as a full time pitcher. The year before he was kind of a developing mop up guy. If you compare the Santos trade to the Andrew Bailey trade, I’d rather have Molina than what the A’s got. That’s just me.
Rios i going to be a mvp candidate next year 30 30 300. Avg and 100 rbis
Going by his career mark of bad year- good year- bad year it’s a possibility. As a sox fan all I want is good defense and average. .260 average. .320 obp. 15-20 hrs and 20-25 steals.
@jwsox – I like the optimism, but if you look at Rios’ numbers and take away the huge May in 2010, his numbers with the Sox have been AWFUL. I have no hope for him.
I have hope for Rios. It’s obvious Greg Walker rubbed him the wrong way,
and also a lot of other Sox hitters other than Paul Konerko.
Jeff
Manto, the Sox new hitting coach has already talked to the struggling
players and is actually listening to them, unlike the previous staff.
espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7195016/new-hit…
Personally,
I think Rios’ problems are all mental/ego based. If he can feel good
about where he is and how the Sox are working with him, he could bounce
back and have a 2010 like season.
As for Dunn, we’ll have to see. There needs to be a 180 in getting in shape and working hard for him to turn things around.
I’m ready to fire Manto already. I don’t know if you heard his interview after being hired where he said he doesn’t believe in OBP.
That to me seems like a departure from the Ozzie style of baseball, i.e. get a guy on, bunt/steal and settle for one run.
I’d be glad if they move away from that and focus on scoring runs and good hitting in any situation and not such a focus in getting men on base (OBP) who may not score.
the thing is though the more baserunners you have the more potential runs you can score. not having ozzie give away outs by bunting stupidly will help
I have hope for Rios. It’s obvious Greg Walker rubbed him the wrong way,
and also a lot of other Sox hitters other than Paul Konerko.
Jeff
Manto, the Sox new hitting coach has already talked to the struggling
players and is actually listening to them, unlike the previous staff.
espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/id/7195016/new-hit…
Personally,
I think Rios’ problems are all mental/ego based. If he can feel good
about where he is and how the Sox are working with him, he could bounce
back and have a 2010 like season.
As for Dunn, we’ll have to see. There needs to be a 180 in getting in shape and working hard for him to turn things around.
Peavy is going to go 29-3 with a 0.48 ERA as well.
are these simulated starts?
Yes they are, doing the Mark Prior/Kerry Wood towel drill.
I like the way you think
He would have to go 24 – 5 with a 2.40 ERA to compete with last years MVP.
People need to look at HOW stats are accumulated, not just the end of year tally. What I saw from Danks last year was a pitcher who got almost no run support early. Was stellar during the summer…..had a couple of really nasty outings and had a slight injury to deal with. I would say that last season, given his track record, was a wash.
DING DING DING! Some fans actually aren’t so clueless. In 3 years in which Danks got 13 or more wins he has managed to do so while managing to hold runners under 5 earned runs and the games in which he lost were all due to lack of consistent hitting. Some pitchers would get all the offense and then our team would come out like duds the next game. Throw last years stats out the window for the White Sox because a lot of players had years under their avg. What’s that tell us? Well, what happened at the end of the year? Didn’t Ozzy get fired. Why did Kenny stay? Because the players that he has around him are still quality players and he is one of the more aggressive GMs that knows how to use the minor league system to get value back and then how to replenish with prospects when the time is right. He did get a a WS in 05.
My problem with Kenny stems from the moves that have been made since July 2009. Acquiring an already injured Jake Peavy and his huge contract, claiming Rios and his huge contract off waivers, and trading for E-Jack, when the guy he traded was very similar and cost controlled at 1/20 the price. Prior to 2009 I had no issue with KW, but he has not been doing his job effectively since and I don’t think he should get a pass.
And what happens if the Sox go on to make it into the playoffs this year with PV holding his own? Or even just having a winning record would that go on to make you happy. PV can bounce back at anytime now (2nd year after that ligament surgery and he should finally be getting most of his motion back + is he a hard worker that will hit his spots). We got the sideshow freak out of town in Ozzy so our players should actually start playing again now that they don’t have to listen to Ozzy and his BS excuses. He wanted out of Chicago why do you think they didn’t wait until the year was over. They wanted to get rid of him that much.
I think Jake Peavy should pitch like the ace he is paid to be. I would love to think he will bounce back, but I just don’t believe we will see the Jake Peavy that was in San Diego due to the age/injuries that have occured.
They don’t need him to be the same pitcher as he was. All they need is for him to be consistent and for the rest of the team to play on pace with their overall annual career #s.
I’m not sure we’d have seen the pitcher Peavy was in San Diego regardless of the injury. That’s a heck of an adjustment…AL to NL and Petco to Comiskey..yes..Comiskey.
I’m still unclear why they didn’t just deal straight with the Cardinals for Colby Rasmus.
The Sox have outlandish ticket prices and seating policies. I wonder if they’ve hidden behind these contracts as an excuse to justify them. There’s no reason they shouldn’t have a higher attendance. But it’s not as if they are truly a large market team. They in no split the region 50/50 with the Cubs.
the sox attendance problems have numerous factors the overall ticket prices are one of them in the last few seasons
To be fair, the White Sox do offer a pair of completely free tickets for each kid in their Kids Club. There are also many coupon codes…Monday 1/2 price etc. It just seems ridiculous to have the Dodgers in town for interleague and have 15,000 in the park. They’d be better to give the tickets out than have the seats empty. Empty seats don’t buy $7 hot dogs.
I think the Sox are still counting on too many rebounds, which aren’t impossible, of course. But that team last year was right at .500 and stunk the joint up for quite awhile. There will likely be rebounds and some natural regressions. I’d still like to see them add a starter and leadoff hitter. All in all, they look good enough to compete in a division that isn’t the strongest. They just can’t have another early season doom like they had last year. It’s actually amazing that they ever sniffed .500 after that. It’ll be interesting to see if Robin Ventura can manage a pitching staff any better than Ozzie did.
The White Sox might never rebuild in the sense that a small market team would, but they certainly need to build a stronger minor league system to patch holes with and use as trading chips.
I can hear Kenny Williams back peddling about his rebuilding comment from here.
It wasn’t misconstrued. It wasn’t taken out of context. He said he was rebuilding. When he found he couldn’t get enough for Danks, he changed his mind. He doesn’t want to say that. OK. We get it.
Honest to God, I hate everything about Kenny Williams and that is really tough on a lifelong Sox fan.
I find it perfectly defensible to despise someone who keeps getting rewarded for under-performing at their job, and acts as if he isn’t
I can respect that point of view a thousand times more than Sox fans who give him a lifetime pass because of 05.
I think both Chicago baseball teams have had the 2 worst GM’s in all of baseball, over the past 5 years.
At least the Cubs have come to terms with that reality, and begun the massive teardown and rebuild.
I think most Sox fans would like to see the same thing on the south side.
Agreed, for the first time in a long time I’m jealous of the cubs front office and approach. I know they are going to build the right way. Although it may be harder/longer now with the new CBA.
I would have liked to see Williams gone when Ozzie left and given the job to Rick Hahn. Williams got a 3-4 year pass after the World series but it’s time to perform now. After horrible trades for Swisher and trading Swisher away as well as Dan Hudson for Jackson et al….Williams is just too impulsive sometimes for the teams good.
I couldn’t agree more. It’s so disturbing that they have no clear plan.
Just because you don’t know their plan doesn’t mean they don’t have one.
How can you rationalize the things that have been done in the last month and say that there’s a clear plan?
How can I rationalize the TWO, count them, TWO moves we have made this offseason? Well let’s see….you trade a RELIEVER (Whom you already have a cheaper, younger replacement for) for a young starter who, according to some scouts, could be a future #2 pitcher. Then you resign your 26-year-old ace (to this team).
THAT is how those moves are rationalized. Both would be moves done for a rebuilding team, and both are moves done for a team that is contending. WE, the fans, really have no idea what direction we are going right now, because neither move is telling, but that doesn’t mean Kenny doesn’t have that plan laid out.
the fact that we don’t know was my point
Right, WE do not, but I think it’s unfair to say that Kenny is sitting in his office with no plan of direction. Don’t forget he OFTEN uses the media as a mouthpiece to keep his dealings under the radar. He always makes moves no one saw coming because he tells the media one thing, and does another.
Yeah, must be hard to reason since your team will not win a WS until another 103 years. Kenny is a good GM. Things happen in baseball and can’t always go the way they want it just like it doesn’t always go the way we think it should for players that we expect to be good. That’s why they play the games.
Kenny is a good GM? I understand blind loyalty, but c’mon.
You think the current state of White Sox baseball is “good”?
What would you consider a bad GM? Bad trades, horrible free agent signings, dysfunctional clubhouse, terrible waiver claims, bankrupt farm system, disinterested dwindling fan base?
If you like those things, yes, Kenny is good.
His big trades tend to be bad, his smaller trades are usually gold. What horrible free agent signings? Unless you honestly think 2011 is an accurate representation of who Adam Dunn really is; which would be highly foolish of you. Dysfunctional clubhouse? Lol, based on who? Joe Cowley? Haha. Terrible farm system, yes. Disinterested dwindling fan base? That’s a reflection of poor team play, not Kenny Williams specifically.
Kenny is fine GM. We haven’t seen this team be great in a while, but we have also never seen this team be terrible. At the very least, they are always a contender at some point in the season.
Your a cubs fan! What do you know? You think minor league players are gold.
yeah, i wish we would have never won a world series so this guy would have been fired by now. life sucks.
Hey at least someone out there has the same brain function as Mitch Williams…I mean it’s a good thing the Jays GM doesn’t believe in modern advanced stats…OH WAIT…
damn computer…
ahhhh
smooth
feel free to mix in a clue at some point…
Well you said it was your “damn computer” but I think this is more of a PEBKAC problem.
wow did you come up with that all on your own? at what point are you going to realize that your own team’s GM realizes heavily on sabermetrics? i mean have you have ever heard AA talk before?
AA doesn’t go around talking about sabermetrics every chance he gets, as a matter of fact his interviews (like any other GM) tend to focus on the “real” stats (HR, ERA, etc).
However I do know he uses sabermetrics as a reference (Tom Tango is a Jays consultant). I agree with this. It should be something you look at. But to say he relies on it (or “realizes” as you put it) is far fetched.
And even if he did it wouldn’t change my oppinion. It’s not like I am bound to agree with him just because I am a jays fan. Honestly, that is the worst argument ever used in pro sports (the “you’re wrong because the team you cheer for does X” argument).
That’s because most of those people in the front office realize the general public is dumb and advanced statistics mean nothing to them because they don’t understand them. Do you really think scientists walk around and talk over people’s heads just because they know more? No, they talk down to be able to communicate with people. Not everyone is like Sheldon Cooper from Big Bang Theory when it comes to talking to people.
lol, this isn’t rocket science. The models are increadibly simple. The writers here use the terms UZN, WAR, FIP constantly. The argument that AA “relies” on these stats, yet doesn’t mention them out of fan ignorance is absurd.
Coaches and GM’s use the terms they use on the field, and the media and fans pick it up. Its how it works in every sport.
It’s like talking to a spoon….
Or an egg…
In all seriousness you are spent and you know it. You’ve gone into conspiracy theory land to defend FIP. Enough is enough. GM’s and coaches do not use it as much as the real stats. Its a fan made, fan loving stat. But no real connection to baseball.
Lol, and again you continue to believe I somehow have been advocating for FIP. And AGAIN I will state that I have never used the stat to compare pitchers. When you saw me talk about FIP was merely explaining to you how the stat works, and why it is valued by some.
Ok, but you use the WAR stat dont you? That one is derived heavily from FIP for pitchers.
In fact I know it was you who said WAR was better than ERA.
It is worthwhile to do some research and see how these formulas are calculated. You would be shocked at their simlicity and their non existant connection to reality.
Ya front offices don’t use it, that’s why Bill James is a consultant for the Red Sox…
Strawman again. I never said they don’t use it, I said they don’t RELY on it. Baseball teams have consultants on everything. In fact, I bet the Red Sox have over a dozen stats gurus. Congrats, one of them does sabermetrics.
what is this “UZN” you speak of? See I can be a grammar tool also…
That would be spelling, and good job dodging the content of the post (you know, the part where I show you’re completely wrong).
Let’s try this one: A pitcher produces a league average GB%/FB%/HR% and pitches in a pitcher/hitter neutral park.
In scenario A, his defense is: 1B -A. Gonzalez, 2B- Utley, SS – Tulo, 3B – Beltre, LF – Crawford, CF – Ellsbury, RF – Upton
In Scenario B, his defense is: 1B – Konerko, 2B – Guillen, SS – Betancourt, 3B – Ramirez, LF – Soriano, CF – Rowand, RF – Quentin.
His ERA (since it’s the best stat and truly measures how good pitchers are) should be the same in both scenarios right?
@lolpods:disqus
If this is an argument for me to read then its a strawman. I never said fielding has no impact on ERA, nor did I ever say that ERA is the best stat.It is the defining stat of a pitchers role. Is has bias like any other, and is in no means perfect. Fielding is one of them. But that is MUCH better than what FIP does (which is leave out useful information).
I would rather have numbers with a slight (but well understood and defined) bias, than ones that don’t use a lot of valuable information.
and you would also choose to not answer a clearly defined question
I answered it indirectly, saying fielding is a bias on the ERA stat. Nice to know you read what I said before replying. However since you seem to work better with simple answers, i will give you an easier answer below:
Yes, the same pitcher will have a slightly higher ERA with a lesser fielding team behind him.
I actually read it perfectly, however, I prefer that when I ask a SIMPLE, DIRECT question that it be answered. I didn’t really think it was that difficult but I guess for some people it is.
oh, so you were just being a tool. gotcha
Nice job dodging the content again btw. Really makes you look sharp.
Honestly, for me, I feel like I’m talking to people who don’t watch the games.
You act as though the pitcher has no control over hits, yet in Baseball managers make pitching decision based on their batting average splits (a stat derived from hits). And these splits vary HUGE from 0.200 for a good lefty vs lefty’s, to 0.350 for a troubled righty pitcher facing a lefty hitter. This is the stuff that really matters. Comparing pitchers on walks, SO, and HR alone is like missing a whole part of the game.
And the worst part is, the FIP is a huge contributer to the WAR stat. So at the end of the day, both are based on feeble information. So then you take this feeble stat and tell me that Danks is a great pitcher, even though he gave up more than the average number of runs/9 innings, and allowed more hits than innings pitched. Guys hit 0.273 off of him, and only 0.232 off of Wilson. Thats a huge difference, completely ignored by FIP (and by extension, WAR).
I love how you are still operating under the assumption that everyone thinks Danks had a better 2011 than CJ Wilson, not that Danks should and will easily earn his $13M AAV contract.
Well, whether his calibre of pitcher is worth the 13M is another topic all together. This is about FIP and WAR.
The real stats (ERA, average, WHIP) show Danks to be outside the top starters (#2 type IMO). The dollar value that is worth is another question entirely.
Danks IS a #2 starter. You seem to be arguing against points no one is making. Danks is NOT an elite pitcher, he is not ONE OF THE BEST, he is NOT AN ACE. He is simply a very solid #2 starter.
Agree