Prince Fielder and Albert Pujols won't be the only first basemen to cash in with historic contracts this offseason. Joey Votto and the Reds have agreed to a ten-year, $225MM contract extension according to Bob Nightengale of USA Today. The deal includes full no-trade protection. Dan Lozano of Icon Sports Group represents Votto.
The ten-year deal will keep Votto in Cincinnati through 2023 according to Nightengale, indicating that it's ten years on top of the two years left on his current deal. Votto signed a three-year, $38MM extension prior to last season. With this new deal, he is now under contract for the next 12 years at a total price of $251.5MM.
This is the fifth deal in MLB history to surpass the $200MM mark. Prince Fielder, Alex Rodriguez (twice), Albert Pujols, and now Votto make up the select group. This is also the largest contract ever signed by a non-free agent, surpassing Derek Jeter's ten-year, $189MM deal with the Yankees. Ben Nicholson-Smith suggested in January that an additional $161MM could be enough to keep Votto in place long-term. Though not directly related, the Dodgers' sale price of $2.15 billion can't have hurt Votto's leverage.
Votto, the 2010 NL MVP, has evolved into one of the game's elite players since debuting in 2007. He followed up his MVP season with a .309/.416/.531 line, 29 homers and 40 doubles. The 28-year-old has been a seven win player each of the past two seasons, according to FanGraphs' version of wins above replacement.
MLBTR's Tim Dierkes and Ben Nicholson-Smith first reported that the two sides were nearing an agreement. John Fay of The Cincinnati Enquirer, Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, and Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports all added details (all four Twitter links).
Photo courtesy of US Presswire.
wow
Nice to finally see a smallish market team keep their star. Congrats Cincinnati, this is a big day in franchise history
Sounds awfully familiar to the Joe Mauer extension.
Except not as bad
He’s one year into his contract. He’s hitting .358 this spring, and he’s healthy. I’m just curious, though – will you be on the bandwagon after he has a great season? I bet.
Sad there’s still 7 years remaining isn’t it? I won’t be on the bandwagon…he has no power…his value for the contract was staying a catcher, not gonna happen.
It doesn’t really matter if he can’t stay behind the plate.
what other position is worth $23M/yr playing 133 games a season? (which is what he was averaging prior to 2011)
Well, to be fair, he was a full time catcher prior to 2011 (catchers never play every day – 133 is actually a lot for a catcher) so it wouldn’t be unreasonable to think that he could play every day at another position. And if he ends up moving to a position that isn’t 1B the deal wont be a total failure.
to further my point…he has caught a ton, the Twins were delusional to think his knees/heath would hold up for 8 years into his mid 30s. As a 1Bman, Mauer’s not going to put up the numbers to be worth $23M/season.
I dont think anyone who made that offer expected Mauer to play catcher full-time every year of that contract and hit 20+ HR. I’m sure they did expect him to be playing the majority of games as catcher for the first half of it alteast and hitting for a great average with some pop. It’s early in that deal, so hopefully he can bounce back. Way too early to be knocking the deal completely…
Except Votto can stay healthy
so could joe mauer…until he couldn’t. that’s the point
Except Votto plays first base and not catcher.
Todd Helton says Hi!
Definitely seems like the stress on a catcher’s lower body is more than a first baseman’s.
Magic Johnson sheds a single tear in LA
Sucks for the dodgers. They’ll have a lot of money to spend and will have no market really. They’ll probably spend big on players that aren’t too big of an impact. Only to get someone kind of descent on the field.
The Dodgers will probably have to trade for a top power hitting first baseman now — if there are any out there to trade for…
Mark Trumbo
Trumbo is good, but very unlikely close to the league of a Votto or a Gonzalez. Time will tell, but I’m thinking Eric Hosmer or Mike Moustakas. Royals need pitching and they got the young power hitting corner infielders the Dodgers are seeking.
On second thought, Trumbo maybe will be just as good as those guys. Who knows?
Trumbo has power but thats about it…Hosmer will be way better in my opinion but the Royals aren’t trading him or Moustakas unless Kershaw is coming to the Royals…
Yeah you’re right the Royals won’t trade Hosmer, but they’ll need to trade someone good other than him if they want a half-decent pitching staff. The problem is the Dodgers don’t have any top minor league arms in their system at the moment. Eovaldi and a couple other arms I don’t think would be enough to get Moustakas. Royals should do a trade with the Braves or the Rays at some point.
The Royals should shop Butler if they want pitching not Hosmer or Moustakas. The Royals have Lamb, Montgomery and Odorizzi. Montgomery is almost major league ready.
Butler is good but not really good enough to bring back superior pitching. Moustakas could bring back a lot more in a trade than Butller. None of of Lamb, Momtgomery and Odorizzi are quite Major League ready and there is no telling how many of them will actually pitch well at the Major League level. A rebuilding team needs more in the way of good young pitching than hitting. The Royals need more.
Butler is underrated because his lack of power so far and his questionable defense, but people seem to forget hes only 25 and just entering his prime. He hits around .300 year after year with a solid OPS. Hes had two seasons with 90+ rbis and one with 20+ homeruns. He hits a lot of doubles so you have to think if he can increase his power a bit and turn some of those doubles into homeruns he can easily be a .300 25+ 100+ rbi guy. In comparison Moustakas is 23 and Hosmer is 22. Not that big of an age difference.
Whoa.
Whoaie Joey, indeed!
2013? I hope its 2023
Excellent.
That’s the shortest 10-year contract I’ve ever seen. 😉
through 2023?
score!!!
I’m gonna try to make the MLB as a first baseman. I can make some solid dollars there.
its going to cripple the reds in the future
It’s the going rate for players of that caliber these days.
yea but long term its going to hurt
Inflation. By the time this contract is done in twelve years $30-40M/yr might be the norm for a superstar.
Sooner or later inflation is going to slow to that of the general economy. Baseball can’t indefinitely grow revenues the way it has over the last 10 years. And salaries are directly influenced by revenues… Just because the average inflation rate has been 5-10% in the past doesn’t mean it will continue to be in the future.
It’s not slowing anytime soon, not with the exploding tv revenue.
I don’t agree. They’ll get this money back and then some. Rolen’s contract is up this year, which gives them $6.5MM more next year to pay Votto, and Arroyo’s contract is up after next year, which frees up about $13MM more. Plus, if they let Phillips walk (hoping that Billy Hamilton will be ready by next year), that’s another $12MM or so.
Bruce is locked in for 6 years, and the rest of their lineup is young and/or cheap (Meso, Cozart, Stubbs, Frazier, Heisey/Ludwick). They’ve got Cueto locked in for 5 more years; they get 4 more years of Latos and Leake reasonably cheaply; Chapman is locked for another 4 years; Marshall is locked for 3. Bailey will be a little more expensive in a year or two, but not outrageous. Things look fine for the next 3-4 years, anyway.
hamilton who has in Low-A and will get the bat knocked out of his hands by real fastballs hamilton?
Hamilton isn’t the heir apparent to Brandon Phillips. The next guy in line is actually Henry Rodriguez a guy who hit .300 in AA last season and will most likely start in AAA this season.
link to baseball-reference.com
A 10-year contract that expires in 2013?
It said that the 10 year part of it starts in 2013 at $225 million and the remaining two years of his current deal add to that and make it $251 million for 12 years altogether.
Starts after 2013. The deal starts in 2014 and goes through the 2023 season (the year he turns 40).
Finally, a huge extension like this coming at a smart time, with someone getting paid for next decade as opposed to last decade. And as far as “crippling the Reds” is concerned, I don’t think this deal will do that.
The TV contract coming in 2016 (or sooner) will be paying his contract. It’ll cripple them a little in the latter of the contract, but it is well worth it to have him for the front to mid end.
Wowzers
seriously
Overpay
Wrong… This is an MVP player. Not an overpay. Its market value maybe a little less. and the fact that he will be around until 2023 Dang!!!
I literally just jumped out of my chair and jumped up and down several times. Oh yeah and I am a Reds fan lol..
I don’t think it will strap them down entirely. I do think unless Brandon Phillips lowers his demands he is gone after this season though because of this.
market value for a player who is two years away from hitting the market = overpay
he’s an MVP player right now, but they already had his age 28 and 29 seasons locked up. they just paid $225M for age 30-40. will he still be that player? i hope so, but that’s a huge risk and this is a brutal commitment for a team in that market
I don’t know if the yearly salary breakdown is shown yet, but I hope that they are paying Votto the most of his money in the early years of his contract.
Sure he’ll make $225 million regardless, but I think I’d rather pay a 40 year old 1B say $30 million the final 2 years as opposed to possibly $50 million (These are all just random guesses of course. He might make exactly $22.5 million a year like Teixeira)
Is Boras this guys agent? If so, then you know the Reds got jerked!
every team’s fanbase wants the deals to be frontloaded…the only time it’s been done (i believe) was Arod…the team with a nearly unlimited budget is the only team smart enough to do it
Would you rather overpay for Votto or Prince Fielder? If you think the Reds are gonna regret this move (they most likely won’t) just think how the Tigers will feel in about 5 years. Maybe less…
Except fielder will be 37 when his is over and he plays in the AL where his final years will come as a DH.
Plus, it still boggles my mind why people’s first concern over his contract is length vs longevity and the guy has averaged 160 games per year over a 6 year span and is only 28 years old.
yeah…not exactly a good comparison
Yeh agreed Votto age 40 playing 1st still oh god, maybe the Reds should swap with the astros and join the AL.
It’s obvious this is an overpay. I can’t believe people are trying to rationalize this ridiculous contract. Paying “market value” when the “market” is inflated is still an over pay. We all know that VERY FEW players are worth +4 WAR after age 36, especially now the game is “clean”.
Just sucks for all those Blue Jays fans who swore he as going to Toronto….
seems like the jays fans won in that deal
Adrian Gonzalez’s contract keeps looking better and better…
He’s the best out of Pujols, Fielder, Votto and Texeria, and he has the cheapest contract. Boston >>
Gonzalez is not the best of that group sorry.
Offensively, all of these guys are pretty similar and, in my opinion, Gonzalez eclipses all of them defensively.
Cause votto didn’t win a gold glove
Gold Gloves are a joke and I am not considering those when I make that statement. I am going by the eyeball test and defensive metrics. Votto doesn’t touch Gonzalez defensively. I really don’t think that’s a very controversial statement.
What’s this guy smokin’?
It’s beer and fried chicken.
Homer alert. Homer alert
Pujols is likely still better in the short term, and Votto may be better in the long run (it’s likely to be close), but Gonzalez definitely offers the best talent to dollar ratio by far and isn’t under contract into his late 30’s – early 40’s like the other guys.
convenient how you left off miggy cabrera
The first thing that came to mind
I’m sure A-Gons contract was modeled after the Cabrera deal. Unfortunately, the Reds had to sign Joey with Fielder/Pujols fresh in every ones mind
Gonzalez seems to have given a discount, he took less annual money and less years than Teix, a player who signed more recently than Cabrera and one that he was clearly at least on par with at the time.
he also wasnt a FA and was coming off of a major injury if I recall…he didnt take a discount…he took what was market value given those two considerations
He was one year away from FA and Boston had just traded a major haul of prospects for him, he definitely had plenty of leverage. He also played in 160 games the year before, so no major injury. Although there is now a report out with Gonzalez saying he’s been injured for 2 years now, which has limited him from full extending his swing, but now is finally healthy. My point is that had he waited to reach FA or if he wanted to at least match Teix’s contract with Boston, he could have without a problem. The AAV is market value, the years/total value of the contract is not.
Is everyone losing it? Votto’s deal is almost exactly the same AAV as Gonzalez. 22.5M vs. 22M. Oh Gonzalez’s deal is so much better!!!
Right and a 38 year old Votto in the National League is really going to pay off….the Gonzalez deal in terms of money and length is a lot better.
It’s not just about the AAV, Gonzalez will be 36 when his deal ends (2018) and Votto will be 40 when his ends (2023).
analysis complete
And just in case you aren’t convinced yet, Votto’s deal include full no-trade protection, while Gonzalez only has partial no-trade protection.
but will have 10/5 half way through
You are right about that, I forgot about 10/5 rights.
Until you consider that Gonzalez is only signed through his age 36 season. That is quite a disparity between the two…
wow, huge deal
how is Votto making 1yr/$12M MORE than Fielder???
Because Votto is in shape and plays GG defense
Votto is better at pretty much every part of the game and doesn’t look like a beach ball.
I honestly never thought I would see this. I just assumed that he was gone after the next 2 years. Amazing
Wow! Great move for Votto and Cincy both. It’ll keep the Reds competitive for years to come.
ummmmm, wow!!!
That’s a crapload of money and years. Votto is a great, great player but as usual, contracts this long don’t look very good in their final few seasons. Very surprised to see the Reds make this kind of huge commitment. Even though they spend money, this is the kind of move that typically only the huge market teams can pull off.
If he were a Pirate, would you not be pleased? It’s either that or he’s gone in 2 years, and likely less.
If I were a Reds fan I would be ecstatic about the next 5-6 years, but I wouldn’t like the thought of the last 5ish years of the deal.
You could say that about just about all of these long term contracts
Yes, but most of the rest of those guys wont be 40 when their contracts end; Gonzalez, Fielder, Braun, Holliday, and Crawford will all be 36 when their respective deals end, Cabrera will only be 33, Mauer will be 35, Kemp will be 34. This deal puts Votto in the Alex Rodriguez – Albert Pujols category as far as contract years go (they will all be 40+ when their deals end), and Votto’s made less sense than Pujols’ deal: Pujols was a free agent and had multiple teams bidding for his services; Votto was under team control so he could only negotiate with one team, the team took on extra (unneeded at this point) risk when they already had him for two more years, and players in that situation regularly get less than what they would have gotten on the open market not as much as they would have gotten (or possibly more).
Taking a purely business analysis to players as labor on the field is a luxury of the major market, big budget teams. Teams like the Reds have to consider that they will take on a little more risk for the potential to have the sum total of a Hall of Famer’s career under their logo. Teams like the Reds don’t get many chances to put their logos on Hall of Fame busts much these days. If he gets to be truly awful in his latter years they can perhaps convince him to retire with a buyout of his last few years, which you cannot do if a player thinks he can still get a handful more short contracts on other, minor teams. It is risky but the kind of risk small-market teams have to take. (The big market teams shouldn’t complain, they want to hog all the championships, and they do, so the other teams have to find less desirable and more creative ways to market their clubs, such as around fan favorite ballplayers)
Of course, Votto could tear our his ACL tomorrow and the Reds could move to Winnipeg in 2024.
”
Teams like the Reds don’t get many chances to put their logos on Hall of Fame busts much these days.”
Votto has had 3 nice seasons, plus a pretty good 2008. Let’s not put him in Cooperstown quite yet.
I probably would be but I’d be scared as well. It’s a tough situation when you are a fan because when something like this happens, you are very happy because your best player is going to be on your team for life, but nowdays we always look at the financial aspects of things and overanalyze. Sometimes you just have to enjoy the moment I suppose.
Votto is now the franchise player. Love how he will always be a Red just like my fav. player of all time Barry Larkin. Assuming he does not get traded down the road. wonder if there is a no trade clause for any of the years?
I think the Reds ownership has shown their fans they are willing to spend money. You wouldn’t have seen this under the Carl Lindner and minority owners aside from the Griffey and Eric Milton deals
as a pirates fan I love this deal great to seem a team closer to my teams financial abilities make a commitment to a quality player(whole career). makes me hope if and when cole, taillon, bell and hopefully pedro reach their potnetial they can be a pirates their whole careers as well
Screw MegaMillions…. I’m going to become a MLB first baseman
Sure you will Jesus
A little retroactive here, but Detroit made out like bandits with the Cabrera deal. He’s the best hitter out of Votto/Gonzo/Pujols/Fielder.
The Bautista deal looks pretty damn good as well lol
Over the last three years his wOBA and wRC+ are about even with Pujols and Votto and he is a far inferior defender. The deal does look pretty good, but you’re looking at it 4 years after it was signed, so the dollars don’t really match up evenly. Where they really made out was in the years of his career that the contract covers (he’ll only be 33 at the end of his deal).
in 5 years this will seem like a cheap deal
True if you’re assuming that salaries at the top end of the spectrum will rise over the next few years. I think there’s a good chance they’ll stay flat or even fall slightly. Baseball may be in the midst of a bubble right now the way the NHL (and the housing market) was several years back.
Wow this is amazing. Even though that’s a lot of money, really glad to see Votto stay with the Reds!!
I couldn’t agree more!
one word: OVERPAY
The deal makes no sense for Cincy at this time. He’s already signed for 2 more years. Cincy didn’t get a discount on the previous extension nor the new extension. All Cincy does is lock in 10 years (now through Votto’s age 40 season) and guarantee $225 mil.
Jocketty is a smart GM, and I understand the additional pressures of running any small market team, but these are the exact kind of deals small market teams shouldn’t be making. It’s easier for a large market team to push a deal like this under the rug when the player is no longer worth a fraction of the salary. Small market teams, on the other hand, get killed when these deals don’t work out. And as popular as Votto is, and as good as he is, he plays a position that is far easier to fill with a good hitter via either the farm system, trade, or free agency, than any other position.
It’s just not a smart business move.
Ryan Howard says: “Know your role, and shut your mouth”
He would have gotten even more on the Free Agent market 2 years from now. That is the going price for elite, MVP 1st basemen nowadays. This could be showing commitment from Castillini that he’s willing to increase payroll in the very near future past $100M for this to make sense.
wowwwwwwwwww
Even if he is an MVP caliber player, doesn’t it make more economic sense to develop new talent at 1B in advance of him leaving and spend the 225mil elsewhere. These are the type of deals the economics of MLB do not allow a mid market team to make and survive.
MVPs don’t grow on trees. The price difference between truly elite, and a solid player isn’t that high. Vernon Wells makes $21M a year!
doesnt mean that you should still devote that money to a player for 12 years.
they also don’t stay MVPs for 12 years. the reds already had their MVP locked up through age 30
Agreed. And 1b is the easiest position to fill with a decent bat. All these teams paying crazy dollars and 8-10 (and now 12) year contracts to 1b are not making smart moves.
Remove baseball from this situation. Look at it from a business point of view only. Say you needed to fill multiple jobs in a grocery store and had limited funds to do so. Would you take the easiest position to fill, say bagger, and pay him more money and for a longer period than you would pay your store manager? Anyone can be a bagger, and it normally starts at minimum wage, but a store manager needs a larger skillset and it costs more to get a good one.
That’s the exact same thing with any of the premium positions – SS, C, CF, 3b, and to a lesser extent 2b. Votto can’t play any of those positions. Neither can Fielder, Pujols, Gonzo, etc.
Then to make matters worse, not only are teams paying the easiest position to play the most money, but compounding the mistake by chaining themselves to these contracts for 8-12 years, and claiming that ‘in the future, these contracts will look small by comparison.’
B.S. That’s a dumb argument for any business to make. Overpaying today will always look like overpaying today. And “overpaying” doesn’t just mean salary. It’s also years. Why on earth would any team sign someone to a 12 year guaranteed contract?
Agreed completely. What is votto has some unforeseen injury in 5 years, he still has 7 years (and about 150M) left on his deal. I think that teams are much better off if they put the $225M into their farm system, unless you are the Yankees, RS, Phills, angels, dodgers, cubs. Those are the teams that can afford to spend it. There are about 20 teams in bigger market than the reds….. can they really devote 25% of their payroll to one player for the next 12 years. He is good, but in reality he has only hit more than 30 hr once in 4 full seasons.
The risk on this contract is bigger than the reds can afford.
Its a better contract than arod’s will be when you look back possibly, but arod has hr record and there will be intense marketing money for that, and the nyy can afford to make money mistakes, the reds can’t.
I agree with what you say, but even though I agree the Reds overpaid, I don’t think they overpaid by much relative to all the other contracts out there. The reason you give a 10 year deal to a first baseman over a shortstop, catcher or center fielder is perhaps because there is a lower injury risk to a first baseman since the position is not as demanding. Look at Joe Mauer. Great player paying the price for the intense physical demands of his position. Sure Ryan Howard keeps getting hurt, but most first basemen seem to hold up pretty well relative to players at other positions.
Lol I love it when ESPN fails. If you go on it quickly enough you might catch it in the article before they fix it:
“First baseman Joey Votto has agreed to a 10-year, $225 extension with the Cincinnati Reds, the USA Today reported Monday.”
To add on to this:
“”Ask Walt about that,” Votto said, referring to general manager Walt Jocketty, after Monday’s 2-1 loss to the Cleveland Indians.”
For those who don’t know, the Reds won 2-1 over the Indians, not lost. I know that’s not an important story, but it’s pretty bad to mess that up.
Well if you’re looking for intelligent writing I;m not sure why you’re going to ESPN.
lol I don’t really go there for the writing, I mostly go on the convo boards, and many people are laughing at this (and it is still there right now)
ESPN just doesn’t care enough about us little small-market teams. Believe it or not ESPN, there are more teams in MLB than the Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies.
What? The team (or size of the market) has nothing to do with their poor writing/editing.
Nevermind. I don’t feel like ranting on a day like this, haha.
Ha! Now that’s an absolute steal for the Reds.
Good thing he’s a millionaire already, I have no idea how he’d live on only making $22.50 a year for 10 years.
Communist!!!!
He’d have to get a second job, just like they did in the good old days.
The Reds wish lol
Multibillion dollar franchises are the new market efficiencies.
me being 23 this is great news for my generation reds fans.. i mean being 2 3 year old in 90 yeah we were alive, but that doesnt count. they griffey era was all show no game even though we all love griffey in cincy. we will be in the world series within the next 3 years, and the good ol’ bengals are doing nothing but getting better. i really hope the world doesnt end this year.
Serious question. Do you think Cincy could support an NHL team?
serious question: do people outside canada watch hockey?
They do in Chicago.
um i really dont know. i mean cincinnati had a minor league hockey team to say the least. the cyclones. when i was a kid when they played at the gardens they sold out alot games but i mean theres probably a couple thousand people who go to a game at most at us bank arena to see a hockey game. i been to a couple an they have dollar beers so i would say yea but it wouldnt be an overnight success.. an if the bluejackets were here from the start instead of columbus i think they would be doin better…
Me being 21 makes me feel awful because i will still be poor in 7 years, while votto is already super rich.
Between the Votto extension, Marshall/Latos trades, and Larkin going into the HoF, this has got to be the most exciting Reds offseason since Griffey, and hopefully (if you’re a Red fan), the most impactful since they traded for Morgan.
best excitement since 90 ha… shit yeah we won a division in 95′ an i went to that wild card playoff game against the mets in 99 i will for ever have hate towards al lieter an edgardo alfonzo…. but 2010 was awesome an being realistic about somewhat unexpected and phily did put us in our place. but everyone is knockin on the front office doin this deal. i dont know why yeah we are a mid market team with a horrible tv deal til 2016 but we have alot of the core already locked up for some years under market value ex bruce,latos,cueto,marshall,leake,even chapman. an rolen cairo phillips bronson an homer coming off the books after this year an next year theres alot of payroll there… and they also have cozart an meseraco locked up for years too. to me in my honest opinion that thought were ALL IN for this year an next well i say to you the reds WILL be competitive an even probably world series champions for some years to come.. wishful thinking i know, but it is what it is
So, now that this is settled, who will be the next $200 mil man?
Real question is how far are we from having the first $300 mil man. I don’t think it’s as far off.
whenever Arod breaks Bonds’ HR record his contract will be at $305 million
Eric Hosmer??? Oooohhh… Bryce Harper. Mmmm…Stanton??
How many eggs are you gonna put in that basket, Walt? Oh. All of them? OK, good luck with that. I hope that basket stays in good shape.
So Walt, How many eggs are you gonna put in that basket? Oh – All of them? Ok good luck with that. I hope that basket stays in good shape for the next 12 years.
Yep.
way to much money and years. 7-8 years would of been my max. until 40 jesus
I like Votto but I’d like to see him on Toronto
Bad contract…. Every long term contract is risky…. I see Votto only good for next 4-5 years, after that complete decline.
Why???
well im sure after those 4 5 years on that extension after he plays these 2 years out on his first one he will start declining some that comes with age! im pretty sure around 2017 he be with the reds for 10 years or so an will have a full trade clause or something so like the stock market when it declines sell sell sell. til then buy buy buy especially when things are good.
Read about a third of the comments and got tired of reading the same things. The way I look at this deal… The Reds will probably want to unload Votto’s contract when he’s around 35 or 36 years old. Votto doesn’t seem to have “monstrous” power (I think he’s a lock for an average of 30 homeruns a year until he turn 35 (or 36). Like ARod and the Yankees, I just don’t like the idea of locking a player down until the guy’s 40. Someone in their late 30s is just not worth 20+ millions dollars. But I guess this is what it took to keep Votto from going into FA after 2013.
did you miss the no-trade clause part of the deal?
Did you miss the part where i wrote “want to”?
Boom!
Joey Votto into his 40’s is better than Prince Fielder into his mid 30’s, just stating the obvious.
And how is that obvious? I’d like to see that spreadsheet you got to support that proposal.
Nobody can see that far into the future.
The people trying to rationalize this deal boggle my mind. Just because there have been arguably worse deals signed this offseason doesn’t mean this isn’t a horrible deal as well. There’s just no reason to have him signed through age 40. None. If this is what it takes to keep an elite first basemen nowadays, I’d gladly let them all walk.
Is no one taking note of the Arod situation playing out as we speak? The guy can barely stay on the field AND he still has several years left on his contract. Unfortunately, the Reds won’t be as well equipped as the Yankees when they are in a similar situation down the road. The shortsightedness of supposedly “smart” men is truly stunning. Why not just let me be the GM of a franchise? I’m sure I couldn’t do much worse. Hell, I’d probably run the team better than most of the GMs out there in the game today.
I wish something would happen to halt this trend of ridiculous contracts being handed out, but it doesn’t look like that will be happening anytime soon. I cannot wait for all of these contracts to blow up in their respective franchises faces.
Congrats to Red’s fans. It’s a great show of intent by the organization. But be clear, the reason why people are shaking their heads is the fact that the deal doesn’t seem to be one that favors a team that’s handing out such a deal with 2/$38 still on the current deal. Unless you see a 10/$225 mil to be a below market deal then all it did was allow them to be the only deal on the table and the only one worth considering.
This their version of a “Jeter/Yankee loyalty deal”. Just understand that the last couple of years aren’t going to be anything like what your use to from him. The Arod deal is the joke that all deals are compared to. Compare this to the Tex deal, which was signed 4 years ago in a competitive bidding war that was drawn out by Boras, then the Votto negotiations will look like one that even Boras would’ve been proud of.
As much as people critiqued the Yanks for the Tex deal, his still ends at age 36 whereas Votto, who right now IS the better player probably, will go into age 40. A team like the Yanks can absorb a 38-40 year old making $23 mil and still be very competitive. With no DH and 24 other players to tend to, can the Reds absorb the inevitable production falloff? That’s the question. But this deal should make the fans happy for at least another 6 years and sometimes….that’s what’s most important.
Dan Lozano had 2 players earn almost half a billion in contracts within 6 months. That is one rich mo-fo-ing agent.
Not sure I like this deal, even though I’m not a Reds fan. In the case of Prince Fielder, his contract ends when he is 36…still very reasonable; Votto would be 40 at the end of this deal…and the NL has no designated hitter rule. The end of this contract could be a Jayson Werth-style doozy.
At least with A-Rod, he can be a DH.
What recession?
well Im glad Votto got a deal my only problem, and not picking on Joey I feel this way about all these long.term big dollar deals, is that like pujols and fielder and carlos lee for that matter, these guys will be making 20mil a year in their mid to late 30s when they are not worth that much. Its all about ego nowadays just like kemp and pujols they want the money to speak how good they are. these type of contracts should be given to guys who r 25 and have been in the league putting up these numbers for a few years, not guys that are 28,29 yrs old
How is it an overpay? Fielder and Pujols both got more and Pujols is getting older and Fielder isn’t as good as Votto now.
I thought that was his natural weight.
wait, what’s wrong with it? I still don’t see it.
It says $225. Not $225 million.
Sorry. First post.
Must be one rich poor man.
And second
Summer Donna!
these long term deals are to please the fans. Would you pay Pujols 30+ mill at age 40 +. The long term deal so far are Kemps because he still be in mid 30’s when contract is up and Matt Cain because it was only for 5 years and he solid as they come. 3 or 4 straight seasons of 200+ innings. Examples A-Rod, Mauer, Morneau. I don’t think i need to say more. another key long term deal Tulo of the Rockies. Only thing that worries me is his numbers might have been influenced by Coors field
LA Dodgers would have broke the bank.
.313/.550/.955 vs .282/.540/.929 does not equal ’10x’s the player’ even adding in defense. On top of that, prince is 3 years younger and has posted 19.6 WAR vs Votto’s 19.4. I understand that he has a few more years service time, but your argument is that Votto will be better into his 40’s than prince will be in his mid 30’s and that is a bold statement considering power levels will drop at age 33-35 and in that time, Votto will still have 5 years minimum on his contract where he is at the downslope of his career, where as Prince will be 36 when his contract expires. On top of that, Prince can DH at the tail end of his contract whereas the reds will now have a guy playing 1st until he is 40, or he will be a 22 million dollar bench player. I understand Votto may be a better player today, but not by much and his contract already looks worse than princes just because of the league he is in and his age.
There’s a difference. Magic & Co. are completely set up to make a huge splash on the FA Market, which makes it likely a huge splash will occur. Bautista hitting 100 HR in a season is damn near impossible. Technically, we are now speaking hypothetically on everything now that Votto is signed, but look at what Pujols and Fielder got. Votto would no doubt have gotten what the Reds gave him at least. The Reds paid market value, and inflation could quite possibly make the Pujols, Fielder, and Votto deals look much better than they do now because 1B elite in 2020 will likely be going for $30M/year..
Nope, try, “Me said ’em call me Torii Huntah…”
Ya mon! 😉
Call back in 12 years and we’ll see how it worked out. There’s no point in arguing it right now to be perfectly honest. You can’t tell a good contract from a bad contract until it’s basically finished in most cases. It’s not my $225M, so I’m just happy ownership is showing commitment to putting a good product on the field.
It’s cute how TophersReds thinks Joey Votto will still be an elite 1st baseman in 2020.