The Phillies entered this weekend needing to perform well in a critical series against the division rival Braves. Instead, they were swept and now appear to be in the position to sell off several pieces. ESPN's Buster Olney tweets that the Phillies could be baseball's "most active sellers" in the next two days, and that they've laid the groundwork for several trades. Olney's colleague Jayson Stark hears from several teams that the Phillies could make 2-3 trades prior to Tuesday's deadline, though they've yet to officially declare themselves sellers (Twitter link).
CSNPhilly.com's Jim Salisbury agrees that selling is likely, and runs down several of the possibilities for the Phillies in the coming days. Salisbury writes that Shane Victorino is the "most likely" Phillie to be dealt, and lists the Giants, Pirates, Reds and Dodgers as possible destinations for Victorino. Interest in Victorino was said to be "heating up" as recently as yesterday.
The Reds have also inquired on Juan Pierre, and both the Orioles and Cardinals are potential destinations for Joe Blanton according to Salisbury. He also says that Hunter Pence could be moved if GM Ruben Amaro Jr. is blown away by an offer, and speculates that Ty Wigginton would fit on several teams looking for bench help.
Salisbury reiterates that the Phillies are likely to keep Cliff Lee for the time being, although he could be shopped this offseason in an attempt to fill multiple holes.
As a Phillies fan, I dont know that I trust Amaro to get good value for anyone.
His trades have been pretty successful though. It’s going to be difficult for any GM to get valuable pieces back for anyone on the roster not named Hunter Pence.
He hasn’t really had a chance to prove himself as a seller though. The Lee trade was a mistake
That Lee trade…
But you’re right, he hasn’t been a seller yet. …Ugh interesting two days ahead of us >.<
For the love of god though, RAJ please don't trade Lee or Halladay. You need to build around something. Make it the rotation.
Hey, as a mariner fan that Lee trade was a good one… 🙂
How’s Smoak doing? (kinda couldn’t resist that one)
This is exactly how I feel, I’m nervous for these next few days. That first Lee trade was terrible
It was a complete salary dump. He admitted to rushing the trade in order to facilitate the Halladay trade. Completely different circumstances.
I don’t agree that it was a salary dump, it was the offseason it’s not like he was having to pay him then, he should have been patient to get a better deal
He couldn’t have been patient… he couldn’t let the fans/team think that Halladay/Lee/Hamels was a possibility at the time.
I’m not saying it was a good trade but it’s not hard to understand their rationale. Trading Lee in January would’ve been PR disaster.
Still that is no excuse. Good GM’s make sure that they do not put themselves in that situation. Bad GM’s make impulse moves like trading away Lee, or grabbing Hunter Pence just because they can, not because there was a dying need. OR, worst of all in my book, throwing $50 million on the table for Papelbon, which did NOTHING to improve the bullpen, while ignoring the glaring holes all over the field just because it was the sexy move to make at the time.
I struggle to find moves that Amaro has made where there is good justification for over the past three years.
I don’t know how Ruben could have not put himself into that situation other than by just signing Cliff Lee to a 6 year deal and not trying to trade for Halladay.
They were trading 1 year of Cliff Lee for 4 years of Halladay.
They made the Hunter Pence trade because they needed a right handed bat. You over pay in order to help yourself win now. It happens. Other than Singleton, the likely hood of any of those players being big time MLB contributers is slim. Would I have done that deal? No. But to say it wasn’t a need is ridiculous. At the time, our 3-7 hitters were Chase Utley/Ryan Howard/Victorino/Ibanez/Brown.
The Papelbon contract was a bad move… not going to argue any differently.
Good moves though? Trading for Halladay. Getting Halladay to sign for their price. Resigning Cliff Lee (say what you want about it now, but the contract itself was lauded Nationally at the time), Signing Juan Pierre, turning Jim Thome into a high upside catcher and potential reliever, The original Jose Contreras contract, resigning Cole Hamels, among others.
a team with a 90+% chance of making the playoffs and the best record in baseball didn’t need a RHB. trading for pence did not significantly increase the phillies’ chances of winning the world series.
I totally agree. Pence was a total luxury and Amaro’s shiny new toy. Totally unnecessary and borderline franchise crippling trade.
I disagree. Cosart more than likely is going to be a mid rotation starter or bullpen piece… and Santana is a strikeout machine.
Singleton is the only one I’m worried about coming back to haunt us.
thats a really poor justification for not acquiring full value for someone.
I didn’t say it wasn’t, I’m just saying he’s aware he was wrong and that it was under different circumstances.
I am prepping myself for trades that will be stupid and/or short sighted. Please prove me wrong Rube…
Outside of Juan Pierre, this sounds like a salary dump to me (which the Phils need to do)
Pence will not be a salary dump.
He is on track to make $15 million or so in arbitration, getting out of that liability would be a salary dump, just like it was for the Astros when they dealt Pence after he won his arbitration hearing which put him on a higher salary curve than they were comfortable with, and justifiably so. And if this was a salary dump, I am completely fine with that.
Hell only go to Oakland I would think.
Melonis is an Oakland fan. What would it take? Something like Griffin + Figueroa + Lower Level Talent? (Depending on how much of the money is picked up by each team, of course)
Have no clue. He’s signed for 11 per. I’d imagine Phillies would eat maybe 3 per if they could get a couple org. Top prospects. Jimmy brings more than just stats. He’s a clubhouse leader.
Is the only SS in baseball to finish top at his position in UZR, UZR150, SB, slg, runs scored, WAR, and HR each foe past three years, and this year?
Re-signing Jimmy Rollins for three years was a big mistake by Ruben Amaro. Rollins had no other bidders on the open market. JRoll is still a fine defensive shortstop, but he will never change his bad hitting approach. Amaro created an extreme lack of depth on the 2012 Phillies, due to the Rollins extension and Papelbon’s 50 million dollar deal. I’d drive either guy to the airport, so they could fly to their next ballclub.
The bad hitting approach that has him as an above average offensive shortstop even in a down year?
seriously,. jimmy rollins does not have a bad contract.
Rollins makes $11M per year, less than Utley, Howard, Lee, Hallady, and even Papelbon. Once Pence goes through arbitration, Jimmy will make less than him too. That contract is not a bad one at all. $11M for a gold glove level veteran SS, who can contribute at all offensively is the going rate. If overwhelmed with an offer, I would consider it if I were Amaro, but otherwise, I have NO burning desire to move Rollins.
I’m sick of stupidity like this. Rollins is on pace to have 4.5 WAR this year, which means he will earn more than half his contract this year alone. Even if he drops 1 WAR the next 2 years he will easily earn his contract and then some. Saying that the Rollins contract was a bad one is just flat out false.
Watch all the games and maybe you will see the regression of Rollins since 2008. He failed to deliver in a big way when Utley and Howard were on the shelf. Rollins, Victorino, and Mayberry hurt the Phillies in the first half. Now some of the calvary has returned and it’s too late. Stupidity is Jimmy Rollin’s popping up regulary on the first pitch. That stupidity won’t change as long as Charlie Manuel remains the manager.
Jimmy Rollins isn’t the problem.
Jimmy Rollins hitting leadoff is the problem. He’d be fine in the 6th/7th spot in the line up… but that’s not going to happen unless they sign a capable leadoff hitter such as Michael Bourn in the off season.
i don’t disagree with any of this.
his name had just popped up a few times recently on MLBTR, so it was interesting that he wasn’t named in this article.
I still prefer Yunel, but it’s looking more and more like Yunel’s not available, so Rollins tops the list now.
Is extremely underpaid?
also i love your avatar.
HAHA i just saw it, it’s pretty good huh?
is an above average shortstop on an affordable contract for his skills who should not be traded lightly (if at all)
If Rangers don’t sign Hamilton, I could def. see them trading for Lee in the offseason…especially if they don’t win it all this year…again.
The Rangers are looking like the Buffalo Bills of baseball.
Ehh I wouldn’t say that.. They are shaping up to start a dynasty if they can win the WS in the next few years. Buffalo was never even close to becoming a dynasty lol
Mike Vick, is that you?
4 straight Super Bowl appearances is 4 games away from being the greatest dynasty of all time. As much as we all love to make fun of the Bills, that’s still pretty impressive.
Unfortunately, those “4 games” were the only ones that mattered. Even if they win 3 of those 4, they aren’t even close to an NFL dynasty. The 70’s Steelers, 80’s 49ers, 90’s Cowboys….those are dynasties. Now back to your regularly-scheduled ridiculous baseball trade scenarios….
You forgot about to mention Tom Brady’s and the Patriots!
I hope Colletti pounces on some of these and gets us good players for cheap, like he did with the Marlins.
Most will come cheap. Victorino should get something decent and Pence should get something really nice.
Jocketty, please stay away from Victorino and Pierre. Neither are upgrades for the Reds, X Paul is our LH OF bench bat. Pierre is not a CF anymore and Victorino is not a lead off hitter so neither of these players make sense. Unless they are getting Pierre to play LF and bat lead off a few days a week
Lee and Victorino to the Dodgers for a ton of salary relief, Zach Lee, Chris Reed, and Joc Pederson.
Horrible, just horrible.
No, no, no, no, no. The Cardinals should not be inquiring about Blanton. I don’t want to see him in a Cardinals uni AT ALL. There are way better options out there then him.
I’m with you. I’d much rather pay a big price for one of the top pitchers than to add a Blanton or Liriano which isn’t even an upgrade. If we’re scraping the bottom of the barrel, I’d rather just stick with what we have.
Liriano is not an option considering he was already traded last night, to the white sox i believe
Oops, yeah. He’s so important I forgot he’s been traded. Thank you, Kenny Williams!
You could see this coming. The Phillies emptied the farm more than anybody I’ve ever seen in the last 3 years trading for Cliff Lee, Roy Halladay, Roy Oswalt, and Hunter Pence. Losing Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, and Roy Halladay for a while is tough, but the Phils had no depth to even so much as stay afloat in the division.
and yet the Phillies AAA affiliate The Iron Pigs are at or around 1st place. I like Manuel as much as the next guy, but Sandberg needs to manage the Phils next year. If he can make a team from virtually nothing in AAA and succeed (TWICE), imagine the 2013 Phillies with him.
Pence makes sense for the Pirates. They need an OF bat and he’s under control for another year. Also makes sense because they’re looking at their first winning season since Bonds left after ’92. They’re also getting career years from most of their pitching staff. They should look to take advantage because the odds are the bullpen is nowhere near as good next year as its been this year.
They were in this shape last July, however, and then the bottom fell out around this time. They’re going to be the hardest team to know what to get out of. They do need help, but they could easily go south in a hurry.
any talks between bucs and phils about Pence stars with Marte and if I’m the bucs, i would pass…. plus trading Pence leaves the phils with ZERO outfielders going into next year which makes ZERO sense
I swear of the Os land Bentacourt or Blanton I’ll protest their games. I’d rather watch Arrieta and Marisz continue to fight for their jobs. Look at the growth of Tillman and Hammels not to mention David, Jones and now Markakis really finding his niche as a Maier type of hitter with ++D in RF.
David? You mean Davis?
Anyway, as I’ve been trying to tell people, they could use another arm for the pen, I’m ok with Betancourt. I do agree with you that Arrieta/Matusz/Britton/Hunter/Tillman should be allowed to continue to fight for their jobs.
Pence said he loved Philly any chance he comes back through free agency next year and go long term but around 20mm a year
I can’t picture paying Pence $20MM per. Good ball player but that would be a huge overpay.
In no world is Pence worth 20 million. Hell, 15 million is really stretching it.
there are exactly 24 outfielders in history who have made more than 12,000,000 a year. Pence is a 10,000,000 player.
$20 million a year for a career 108 OPS+ hitter with bad defense?
If Rube gives Pence 20 million on a long term deal, he should be thrown off of the Ben Franklin Bridge.
At this point ANYTHING for Pierre, Wigginton & Blanton is a bonus. Victorino & Pence are chips. Trade them to the highest bidder & you will get younger players off a MLB roster. Pence should get the Phils a decent prospect or three.
Players off a MLB roster for Victorino & Pence, not the others.
i could see the yankees trading for wigginton and blanton for adam warren david adams austin romine?
who on earth are those players, looks more like 4 names and a salad the way you wrote it
If Austin Romine is who you are talking about, DONE. You can have both Wigginton and Blanton for that, at full salary of course.
He literally has no value right now. Phillies would have to eat almost his entire contact for some batting practice balls. They’re better off holding on to him and hope he gets healthy/figures things out.
I’m pretty sure any baseball executive or insider would disagree with the notion that Halladay “literally has no value right now”
Maybe I should’ve more explicitly stated my point: the phillies would be selling extremely low on him right now if they were to trade him. They’re better off rolling the dice and hoping he can rebound, even if it means $20m on a guy who misses next year with surgery or just isn’t the same pitcher.
I have to think Lunchbox’s comment is more of a sentimental one as he’s a jays fan and wants to see Roy get a ring, being that it’s not going to be with the phillies.
I am a (realistic) Phillies fan, and I agree with you 100%. Who would take on a $20 million commitment for a pitcher at Doc’s age, who clearly is not right, and had shoulder issues bad enough this year to cause him to shut himself down. Answer: no one.
It’s Roy Halladay? The Phillies in my opinion would be selling at the least pretty high. Unless you’re in their front office and know something I don’t.
I’m no scout, but I’ve watched his three starts since his return from the DL. He’s not right.
Even if he was lights out in those starts, I would imagine there would be a good deal of apprehension, still. He just missed two months and was obviously hurting from the start of the season based on his performance.
Yes but everyone who in baseball and watches baseball knows how competitive Doc is and we all know he will work his tail off the remainder of this season and in the off season to get back to the elite level pitcher he was.
actually its the opposite. Halladay is underpaid, and thats exactly why they shouldn’t trade him.
He signed a below-market deal back in the winter of 2009. At his current level of production, he is no longer underpaid.
a decade of dominance, vs one off year. Most gm’s would still give him the benefit of the doubt.
He’ll still bring in a good package.
One off year due to shoulder problems, nobody is biting on that.
I know you’re a big Roy fan, so am I, but try to look at the situation objectively.
He doesn’t have shoulder problems, he had a muscle strain which he will completely recover from in time. I’m betting just about any contender would love to have him on a 1 year deal.
Strategically speaking, he should be put on waivers on August 1st. If this happens, guarantee he clears. No team in their right mind would take the chance of Doc’s remaining 2012 salary and 2013 salary, even for nothing in return.
There were concerns about his rotator cuff. He’s a 35 year old pitcher who’s stuff seems to be on the decline.
… and he’s owed $20 million next year with a full no trade.
He can only block trades to 21 teams. That’s a Phillies standard. Too many players (ie Utley) have most favored nations clauses which would also give them full NTCs if they sign a player to a contract with a full NTC.
I thought they ended up giving him a full no trade. My mistake.
Even if it’s not contractually written that way, I’d guarantee they would treat him as if he did have one. They have too much respect for Roy Halladay in the FO not to.
I’m not exactly sure when they stopped giving full NTCs. Abreu and Burrell had them, but Chase only has a partial.
Blocking to 21 teams is functionally almost a full NTC. You figure they’d allow trades to four NL East teams (which would be unlikely) and four teams who probably didn’t figure to be good in 2012 (ie Astros, padres, cubs) who would have no utility for the Roy’s, utley’s and lee’s of the world, even if the Phils ate salary.
Although, lee didn’t put Texas or Nyy on his list, so he went about it differently.
Did the math and figured out Utley’s contract was under Gillick, which makes sense. Thought it was under Wade.
I don’t know if you’ve watched him lately but he isn’t close to the same pitcher he’s been in the past. His velocity down and his pitches aren’t nearly as sharp as they used to be.
he had one of the best seasons of his career last year. I understand how he looks this year, but you have to take chances on talent.
if i was texas or a team (near) guaranteed to make the playoffs , I’d acquire him and shut him down for a month to let him rest and see if that helps.
If not I’d bet on him coming back in to ace form with an off season of r & r.
you don’t just fall off a the face of the earth like that. yes eventually he’ll age and get worse, but not that quickly
However, he has had injury woes this year. Perhaps in the offseason, Halladay could have value.
Remember Polanco is done after this year as well so how about Lee to the Rangers for Mike Olt, Victorino to the Dodgers for Kenley Jansen, Blanton and Pierre to the Cardinals for Jon Jay and Zack Cox. Rollins, Pence and Cash to the A’s for Jarrod Parker.
I’d take any of those trades.
Maybe Lee and cash for Olt makes some sense, but the other three are pretty lopsided, one way or the other.
That better be a lot of cash, otherwise Texas would be insane to do that.
Texas was willing to pay him more 2 years ago. Lee took less to come to Philly. Now they desperately need another pitcher because of injuries and want to continue their championship run. I bet Texas would kick in money to make it happen. Olt is blocked at 3rd by Beltre anyway so he’s wasting away in the minors for no reason.
Seems like something you could do in MLB 2K12, not in real life. As much as I would love that as a Phillies fan.
If the Phillies do trade a bunch of players, like the should, just don’t make it for pitching prospects. They’ve got pitching. They need bats. Bats that can contribute in the near future.
They really don’t have that much pitching.
You know what player I want the Pirates to trade for? Mike Fontenot. Utility INF that can play 2B/3B/SS in a pinch and provide a solid LH bench bat. Forget Victorino, Pence, Polanco. Three playoff runs too, good experience to add to the team without disturbing chemistry or giving up an advanced prospect.
I’d be hesitant to trade Rollins if only for the fact that they have nothing prospect wise in the infield. (Don’t mention Galvis) Unless they can get someone who can step in and play either short or 3rd in the next year or so, there’s no upside to trading him. Rollins’ contract is way down the bad contract list as far as the Phillies are concerned. Plus with a potential multibillion dollar TV right around the corner, it would benefit the owners to spend a little now and keep the team somewhat competitive until the new TV is signed. Its not like there’s a whole bunch of available SS out there that could replace Rollins. Sure you save 5 million or so by trading him and plugging a league average type guy in there, but where are you going to spend that 5 million? There’s nothing out there to buy.
Heard on the local Philly radio that there’s a good chance Pence is headed to SF and it’s just waiting approval of the owners.
just read this has been “shot down” by numerous media outlets, including the guy that started the rumor
Nobody will blow you away for Pence. The best you can realistically get is Francisco Peguero and Justin Christian from SF.