8:36pm: Rosenthal hears that the asking price for Choo is a good Major League player with less than three years of service time (Twitter link).
8:23pm: The Reds are also interested in Choo, according to Rosenthal (on Twitter). Choo would fit Cincinnati's desire for a left-handed bat and a leadoff hitter, but Rosenthal hears that the Indians are reluctant to move Choo.
5:29pm: A deal between the Rangers and Indians for Choo isn't happening, according to Jon Heyman of CBS Sports (on Twitter).
4:17pm: The Rangers also have interest in Choo, Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports report. Texas would prefer to add a left-handed hitter such as Choo to their lineup, but the Indians are reluctant to trade the right fielder. Cleveland would likely look for pitching in a trade, according to the FOX reporters.
11:04am: The Pirates are checking in on Indians outfielder Shin-Soo Choo, Rob Biertempfel of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review reports (on Twitter). The Pirates would likely have to part with 23-year-old outfielder Starling Marte to complete a trade for Choo, Biertempfel writes.
The Indians are likely to keep Choo, but they'll listen to trade offers for him, ESPN.com's Jayson Stark reported three days ago. The 30-year-old earns $4.9MM this year and will get a raise this offseason when he goes to arbitration for the third and final time. Choo has a .295/.382/.489 batting line with 12 home runs in 422 plate appearances this year.
The Pirates acquired Wandy Rodriguez this week, but they continue seeking offensive upgrades. Marte, Drew Sutton and Alex Presley are among their current left field options.
I’ll take Marte for Choo…..his agent dont want Choo in Cleveland anyways
And his agent sure as hell won’t want him in Pittsburgh at the end of 2013 either, haha.
Pull the trigger… show this team’s players management is serious about the playoffs.
You don’t just trade away top prospects to prove something
You are not proving anything, getting an accomplished player to lead you to the playoffs and beyond… Now is the time, not next year or the year after…
It’s funny though cuz marte could very well put up just as good as numbers as a 24 yearold not 30.
That’s the unknown variable you hope pans out for Marte… one never knows.. that’s what projections are for… do you go with someone who has yet to prove himself or with someone who already has…
Really? I dont think Marte is on pace to put up almost 5 war this season. Choo is on pace for another 20-20 season and is a very very solid leadoff hitter who can also draw walks, unlike Marte. Choo is exactly the type of player that the Pirates are missing right now.
Actually their missing a four hitter not a 2 or 6
Choo is a leadoff hitter and prior to Marte’s calling the Pirates had Alex Presley slotted there, if they trade Marte for an upgrade in Choo he would most definitely be their lead off hitter.
No, but you do trade away prospects to improve the team and take a shot at winning. It’s one of the reasons you build up the farm system the way the Pirates have – so you have pieces to move when you have a chance to improve and win now.
No thanks
Not sure if want.
No thanks…..Pence yep
Why? Choo’s career line: .292/.383/.475. Pence’s .289/.342/.480. Pretty comparable in terms of defense and base-running
choo is significantly better than pence
One of the most ridiculous rumors I have heard. There is NO WAY the Pirates are dealing Marte for Choo. It’s not likely to be much of an upgrade, Choo is injury prone, and the biggest reason is that it will cost the low-budget Pirates a fortune to keep Choo after this season.
Their acquisition of Wandy Rodriguez fits their strategy a lot better – they were not in pursuit of the bigger names at higher prices.
The only way guys like Marte, Gerrit Cole or Jameson Taillon are dealt is if a Josh Hamilton or Matt Kemp type player were available. Pirates must not think Justin Upton is quite in that range, or the D’Backs wanted more than Marte – otherwise something would have happened there.
Instead, expect the Bucs to bottom-feed for players like Shane Victorino.
What, exactly, puts Shane Victorino in the “bottom-feed” category? The guy’s having a “down” season to date but he’s still a pretty good player.
The price for Victorino is a lot lower than for Choo:
First, Victorino is not as good a player.
Second, and much more important, is that Victorino heads into free agency in November, so he is a 2-month rental, while Choo is under control for 2013.
Choo would cost no more than 7 million to keep next year… and then you worry about an extension, or you get compensation if/when he leaves as a free agent
I think he’ll ask for $9-10 million and settle around 8. His current figure of 4.9 was kept low by an injury-plagued 2011. He’s also a Boras client. But the point is the Pirates either don’t have the $8 million, or could keep Marte and use the $8 million elsewhere next season.
This is not a one-year window in Pittsburgh by any means.
What the Bucs should do is figure out who fits in their plans and who doesn’t and start moving the guys who don’t fit (Tabata, Gorkys Hernandez, maybe Garrett Jones) over the next couple of days and on through the off-season.
“It’s not likely to be much of an upgrade”
one of the most ridiculous comments i have heard. marte couldn’t hit in the minors what choo hits in the majors
He won the Eastern League batting title last year coming off hamate surgery.
I’ll go make some money on my blog now – I’m tired of pointing out the obvious…that while the Indians might want Marte for Choo, the Pirates will not do that trade.
marte’s wRC+ in the minors
A+ – 143
AA – 138
AAA – 128
choo’s wRC+ since joining the majors
148
137
144
104
141
That seems like a win for both teams. The tribe get a young cost controlled OF and the Bucco’s get a proven stud in Choo to help them make a run for the division.
“proven stud” is a major reach on Choo…he is a very good, but far from elite player
evidence? the only reason he’s not considered elite is because he plays in cleveland
if you take out his injured 2011, he’s played at a 4-6 WAR level over his last 3 seasons. even if you include 2011, he’s produced 4.7 per 150 games over the last 4
go look up all of the other players who have done that. every single one is a star
stud is definitely a strong word. Unless “stud” means an older version of Jose Tabata. Seeing as he is a glass cannon, and spends more time on the DL than playing.
How is Choo injury prone at all other than when he got hit by a pitch on his hand thus breaking his hand?
one of the worst comparisons of all time. tabata has a 95 wRC+ (5% below league average) and is a below average defender. choo’s is 134
for perspective, that’s the difference between andrew mccutchen and delmon young
Choo is one of the most underrated outfielders in the game. He would be an awesome acquisition for the buccos and would make that outfield a force to be reckoned with.
you just want the Indians to sell since it helps the Tigers!
I’d love to see Choo out of the Central. That’s because he is an awesome player; but I’m also a pretty big pirates fan on top of my tigers. I love the city of Pittsburg and I love their franchise; I think choo would be an awesome fit for the pirates an I really want to see tem do well and I think he’d help them greatly. Plus, I’ve always liked choo as a players and gettin him out of the Mistake by the lake would make it easier for me to enjoy his success
Exactly my thought. He is vastly underrated, as I accounted in my post before I saw this one.
I’d go as far as to say he is the most underrated player in the league. He literally is above average in every aspect of the game. Plus if he goes to Pittsburgh, then I won’t have to watch him destroy Orioles pitching anymore!
Choo’s underrated and Marte is vastly over rated. If there’s really a deal like this on the table and the Pirates have jumped on it yet they’re fools.
Enough to give up Marte though? Marte has a chance to be a pretty great young OF for them in the next few years.
Is 1.5 years of Choo worth 6 of Marte?
Not a fan of either team, but I’d love to see the Pirates pull the trigger on a Marte/Choo deal. Marte is no sure thing obviously, so for this year and probably next, this APPEARS to be a nice upgrade for the Bucs. Time to leverage the farm system and make a run.
If the Pirates have a chance to deal Marte for Choo and haven’t well shame on them. Marte is nothing but hype and if the can get quality in return for him before people figure it out the need to.
A lead off hitter with zero walks and a .280 on base percentage, yeah that’s what ever team needs.
This trade would make no sense to me. Not a pirates fan but keep marte there.
I know Presley hasn’t had the greatest year so far, but wouldn’t it be better to just hold on to Marte, and see if Presley can get this thing turned around a bit? They still have Garret Jones, too, though I suppose he’s been playing some 1B this year?
I think the general idea seems to be they want Jones at 1B, w/ McGehee off the bench. I don’t understand why the Bucs are entertaining including Marte in any deal. I know it takes prospects to get good Major League players, but the Pirates have pitching depth. That’s it. Their pool of position prospects are almost all below AA – predominantly in Low-A. Throw Tabata in a deal w/ pitching and maybe one of the 1B prospects?
I think people are seriously underrating Choo here. With a year of team control left, there’s no way the Pirates land him without dealing on of their top guys. Better Marte than Tallion or Cole
If they would trade those guys I’m pretty sure they’d want Pence
They’d prefer the more expensive player with 40 fewer points of OBP?
The player who can change the face of the line up? The player who would make teams throw McCutchen more hittable pitches knowing that the guy behind him can hurt them as well?
Jim C, looks to me like Choo and Pence have been very similar players during their career, but with Choo being slightly better most of the time. So are you claiming this is a reputation thing and not a reality thing?
That’s exactly what I’m claiming. If they want a leadoff hitter then Choo is their guy but if they want a hitter that can protect McCutchen then Pence is the guy. It’s pretty much the same situation with the Cardinals a couple years ago when the aquired Holliday to protect Pujols.
McCutchen’s season so far is about as convincing of an argument as there is that lineup protection is mostly a myth. How much better could he possibly be?
How much better could Pujols have been? Also how is that a myth? If you know that the guy behind a hitter is easier to get out then why throw to the tougher hitter? Now if you put a guy behind him that can also rake, the pitcher can’t just pitch around him in game changing situations.
It makes intuitive sense, but it sort of falls apart when you look at the actual examples. Pujols finally did get some protection with Holliday behind him, but he didn’t any better. Cabrera hasn’t hit better with Fielder behind him this year. You can find some examples that go the other way, but not nearly as many as you might think. The studies done suggest if there is an effect at all, it’s minimal.
I apologize if it seems that I am against Choo. He’s a very good baseball player and I agree that it would help McCutchen with more RBIs, I wasn’t even thinking about that. He actually would be the same shot in the arm as Pence would.
The bottom line is that when you add a good hitter to the lineup, that’s presumably a good hitter taking 4 ABs/G away from a poor one. Another quality bat is never a bad thing.
Even if it did help Cutch to have a better hitter behind him, I fail to see why that would be intrinsically better than having a good hitter atop the lineup. He’d have a ton more RBI opportunities if the Pirates didn’t have Presley and his .276 OBP leading off.
i don’t think i’d trade Marte for Choo, but i’d love to see Choo on the Pirates.
Well that’s the type of player you’d have to give up to acquire Choo. No way would Cleveland give away their fan favorite franchise leadoff hitter for some scrub who could turn out to be the next Matt LaPorta. MLB talent for MLB talent, period.
i hope the pirates arent like the jays, cause theyll be interested in all the big names but only acquire marginal players.
Just don’t get this, Marte seems to have given the Pirates a huge shot in the arm….I know some people don’t rate RBI’s as that important, but 39 RBI’s in 400 + AB’s seems to me pretty lame. See he has only 1 HR with RISP for the whole season…
Choo’s been hitting lead-off most of the year. He’s more of an on-base guy than a slugger, which is something the Pirates lack right now.
Amen
The only thing worse than using RBI’s to evaluate a player is using RBI’s to evaluate a player that primarily hits leadoff.
And not only is he leadoff, the bottom of the Indians lineup has generally consisted of some trio of Aaron Cunningham, Johnny Damon, Jack Hannahan, and Casey Kotchman.
As a Pirate fan, I sincerely hope this is nothing more than a rumor. Marte for Choo would go down as one of the worst trades in club history.
I like the thought of Choo joining the Pirate’s outfield, but losing Marte. I’m not so sure I’d make the trade.
Marte’s value exceeds that of Choo at this point based on potential and controllable years. There should be no motivation whatsoever to make that swap. If anything, why don’t the Pirates consider shopping Jose Tabata? He looks completely checked out mentally in AAA, so maybe his value has hit the doldrums. But at least dangle him out there with a couple prospects of value and see what comes back. Let Marte continue being the beast that he seems likely to be.
Marte may be a beast in AAA but has not proven anything in the bigs yet
With that logic, practically no trades would get done in MLB at the trade deadline
Marte went 2 for 4 in the first game and 0-9 since… just saying
Your basis is on 13 at bats? Laughable.
I’m not saying Marte can’t be good… just reminding people prospects usually struggle in the first taste of the bigs… Trout and Harper have made people forget that fact
Even Trout struggled badly in his first trip to the majors last year.
and if you read, there are not a lot of trades for that same reason
I’ve read all your comments and you favor the established guy over the prospect in every comment.
Faulty logic is –
1. Every MLB player is a prospect at one time.
2. There is not an unlimited supply of money to keep investing in established players, especially in an organization like the Pirates.
for the Pirates yes I do favor the established player… they cannot go another season in reverse… they have the fan base back in their favor right now and it is not fair to the players and city of Pittsburgh to not get an established player at the expense of a potential prospect… they have to do something today not tomorrow…
Lol its been four games
Sample size
“Marte’s value exceeds that of Choo at this point based on potential and controllable years.”
can be said about virtually every prospect-for-star trade that has ever happened. i know the pirates are new to this, but it isn’t rocket surgery
It’s clear that Marte isn’t ready to contribute to the major league team this year. He needs more time in the minors. Presley clearly isn’t getting it done either. If the Pirates really want to take a shot at the playoffs this year (and I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t want to), then they need to find an upgrade for the outfield.
They aren’t going to get that upgrade by scraping together left over scraps like Tabata, Correia and Meek. It’s just not realistic.
I’m as excited about Marte as anybody, but he’s not an untouchable prospect. I certainly wouldn’t move him for a rental, but for a guy like Choo with some control left, I could live with. Choo is basically what we hope Marte will eventually turn into a few years from now.
I’d like to see the Yankees trade for Choo in the offseason to replace Swisher, Marte for Choo that is way too steep for the Pirates.
Well since this a only a rumor, I speak on behalf of Doug Melvin, send Marte and a pitching prospect to the Brewers for Corey Hart
No if Marte is involved. Correia, Tabata, and one 10-20 prospect, maybe 5-10 if it comes down to it. But no on Marte.
Taillon /Dickerson & Garcia would be fair for Choo
If it was Marte I would think it would be Marte for Choo 1 for 1.
Taillon is a better prospect than Marte is…
Fair for who?
That is extremely steep and would set the bucs back at least a year or two
Will take cabrera santana and choo
Hahaha, Taillon for Choo is laughable.
No, Pirates would need to give up Marte and at least one other player. Choo is a franchise OF…gone are the days when the Tribe gives up its top players for “should be’s” or “could be’s”. If Pirates are serious they’re going to have to give up some serious MLB-ready players.
Well, the problem with this logic is that the Pirates need Marte and Choo. So this wouldn’t help their cause. Yes, Choo is proven and all that other bs, but so what. He walks after 2013, while Marte is here for 6 years, and a much lower cost. And he has an extremely high ceiling. You don’t give up guys like that for an above average 30 year old who will surely be gone after next year. Its just bad business.
Where does this Idea that Choo is injury prone come from? He got hit in the hand by a Jonathan Sanchez fastball but outside of that he’s been healthy 156 games in 09, 144 games in 10, 95 games so far this year
TJ surgery in 07-08 and back problems at the end of last season to go with the broken thumb.
156 in 09, 144 in 10 and 95 this year… the TJ surgery was in Sept 2007 and he got called back up at the end of May in 2008… to call him injury prone is a bit much
Wow I came in here to say that as an Indians fan I would want more for Choo. I’ll be leaving now.
Several people in this thread have embarrassed themselves by revealing how little they’ve paid attention to baseball in recent years. Choo would be a huge star in any city aside from Cleveland. He had a down year last year returning from an injury but he has bounced back this year in a big way. If the Indians decide to sell (as they should) they could get more than just Marte for Choo.
Nathan, I would suggest you’ve embarrassed yourself by not factoring in how a player’s future compensation affects their trade value.
Not necessarily knocking Choo, but it is a fact that even on a relatively weak Indians team in Choo’s best seasons of 2009 and 2010 he was not able to nose out the likes of Roberto Hernandez fka Fausto Carmona for an all-star nod.
That hardly qualifies him as a huge star as viewed by his peers.
Ron, I would suggest you’ve embarrassed yourself by using something as arbitrary the selection of a team’s single rep to an all-star team as a measurement of value.
You do realize that Choo was was injured and Fausto was a replacement, right?
oops. That does support the “inury prone” knock which I got so heavily criticized over – 4 DL stints from 2008-2011 by my count.
Also a suggestion to the fine folks at Baseball Reference that they credit being named to an all-star team, not just being on the roster.
OR maybe you shouldn’t rely on all-star appearances to judge how good a player is? Back to back 5 WAR seasons is impressive regardless of what team he is on. Also, one of his DL stints comes from being HBP.
You are moving the goal posts. First he is not good because he didn’t get an all-star nod in 2009 or 2010. When that was proved invalid you pull the injury prone card. The fact is Choo is a very good player with a career line that is just short of 300/400/500.
Wow.
Shin Soo Choo is one of the most underrated baseball players in baseball…
I wonder who the most underrated baseball player in football is?
Football? I’d say Tim Tebow. 🙂
Well, the most underrated Football player in baseball would be Todd Helton (hell of a QB). Looking at it the other way, though…possibly Brady, as he was drafted as a catcher. Was viewed as a better baseball prospect than football recruit.
I would absolutely love Choo, but not at the cost of Marte. Not sure what I’d give up to get him, but getting him would be great.
Ah Choo!
A Choo….in Cincinnati?
I would do it if I were the Bucs. Marte seems like another “tools” guy with plate discipline issues that scouts seems to drool over.
Choo is a solid player, but I would MUCH rather have Marte, and to be honest, this is a no brainer. Price, Team Control, Tools…I mean, this isnt even a rumor as far as I am concerned. There is no way Marte gets shipped for Choo…if he did, Huntington should be fired on the spot. Now, if they can acquire Choo without including Marte, Taillon, Cole, or Heredia, then I would most likely be all for it. But to even consider the aforementioned deal is just plain lunacy.
No way the Buccos do that trade
stay tuned
I the deal involves Marte, Taillon, Cole, or Heredia, then I would pass without thinking twice. Marte is in left field for the rest of the season come heck or high water. Huntington should add what he can without moving any major pieces. Even if we have to settle for a Victorino type rental, Id rather do that than give up a critical piece of the future for an injury prone Choo.
Borbon, Ramirez, Font and Loux for Choo.
I think he is going to Texas
I’m torn on this rumor. Pirate fans poo-pooing Choo need to look at his numbers, particularly his insane OBP. Presley is atrocious as a lead off and the knock on Marte has been lack of patience. Granted Marte has only 15 MLB ABs but it appears that he is a free swinger. If we’re lucky Marte will become what Choo already is but anybody acting like that is certain needs to go buy a lotto ticket with that crystal ball.
On the flip side, if Marte is your big bullet, I’m not sure firing it for a lead off guy is the best use. A middle order thumper seems like a greater need. Then there’s Boras. If Choo was repped by anybody else, I’d feel ok with swapping a good prospect on the theory they can sign him to an extension. That’s not happening with Boras pulling his strings. If I swap a Marte for a guy with only a year left, I’d rather go after a bigger fish.
Well, Marte has MORE value than Choo just by himself. Granted, nobody really knows what he will become. But he has 6 years of control left, and cheaply. Choo is 30, and has one year left. Thats a big difference. And Choo is a quality player, don’t get me wrong, but we need Marte and Choo, not one or the other. Not worth it anyway. Just robbing Peter to pay Paul if you ask me. Would rather keep Marte for 6 years than get Choo for one year and 2 months.
Marte is a good not great prospect, it would take more than him to get Choo a player that is in his prime and is a well above average starter at his position already.
Choo would rake in Texas.
Not hard to rake in Texas with that little league wall they have in right field.
What little league wall is 330ft down the line?
Pull this off Cincy. Votto would love that .382 obp in front of him. We already have given up so much to be all-in might as well acquire a game changer at leadoff.
Question is how much? Cingrani and Hamilton are considered untouchables but I’d be willing to deal either for Choo.
Hamilton or Cingrani plus Hoover, Lamarre
Hamilton will not be dealt for Choo. Period.
You must give something of value to obtain value. Look at latos deal. Hamilton is a stud but not guaranteed to have success at the mlb level. Choo has proven himself and he can help us win the WS this year.
Hamilton will not be dealt for Choo. Period.
Agree. Reds aren’t trading Hamilton unless they were absolutely blown away with an offer.
And let Choo go to the team nipping at their heals in the division? Pittsburgh has clearly put together a solid trade offer. It’s up to Cincinnati to exceed that or Choo will be a Pirate going down the stretch. Whoever trades for Choo will have to overpay for him, not because he’s the best bat on the market (which he is), but also because these two division rivals won’t want to see him go to the other team.
If it means we have to give up Hamilton to prevent the Pirates for getting Choo, then let them get him. Just means they lose a few solid prospects.
Do you think Hamilton will start over Cozart when hes up?
Hamilton will probably be moved to CF because of his iffy defense at SS and because DiDi and Cozart are ahead of him.
Choo for Heisey and Soto? Bray? Sulbaran?
Would the Indians really prefer Marte over a package deal of Tabata/Correia or Karstens/Locke or something like that? Or would Marte just be a starting point? Sounds pretty pricey either way.
Correia, Karstens and Locke would have little value to the Indians. Correia being a FA and w/ the others, being back of rotation guys. Tabata is little value right now other than being cost controlled. He can still turn things around but if they trade Choo it needs to be for someone who can help now.
Ask yourself this: Who do you think the Pirates would prefer to keep, Marte or Tabata/Correia. You can’t get a guy like Choo by just rounding up spare parts.
i would love to have choo leading off
choo
phillips
votto
ludwick
bruce
frazier
cozart
hanigan
championship
Heck yes
heck yes
Define “good”. Could/should be? Jose Tabata/Alex Presley and Justin Wilson…plus, maybe Kyle McPherson?
I can assure you that’s not what the Indians are looking for. They want quality, not quantity.
White Sox get: Felix Hernandez, Brendan Ryan and Brandon League.
Mariners get: Dayan Viciedo, Addison Reed, Nate Jones, Nestor Molina, Simon Castro and Tyler Salandino.
Bahahahahaha
The White Sox could merge with the Cubs and still not have enough to pry Hernandez+ out of Seattle
Dang! every player listed good or bad the rangers seem to want! why dont we just call a time out on the trading and let the rangers get what they want, make sure they are satisfied and happen, then move on to regular trading. I thought the yankees use to be bad about wanting to buy everyone, but the rangers take the cake this time, oh wait, they just bought the cake!
So, the Indians would NOT be looking for a top prospect for Choo? They would be looking for a “good major league player” with less than 3 years MLB service time? That narrows the window down to a very select handful of teams. No contending team is going to trade a piece of their already-successful major league lineup, so how exactly does Cleveland expect to get value in return? What team that would be in the market for Shin-Soo Choo and be able to make such a deal? Or is Rosenthal just FOS?
That’s the point. The Indians don’t want or need to trade. They still hold onto the hope that they can contend in the AL Central, and because of that, they cannot give up a major league player without getting one in return. The only area they can afford to trade away a player and not affect this year is the bullpen.
I’d trade Tyler Greene straight up for him. Less than 3 years, done deal.
im sure he meant more than 3 years.
No, he is saying they want a pre-arbitration player.
i read it completely wrong.
Seeing as this notoriously cheapskate franchise won’t resign him, moving him now when he has the most value makes sense.
As an Indians fan I would love marte but why is nobody talking about defense because I say they are about the same hitting but in the field choo has a huge advantage he has a cannon arm and is a decent fielder with good speed meaning (with mccutchen and tabata) also in the outfield nothing is getting in the gaps as for Cleveland no brained but maybe throw in another prospect like chun Chen plus choo has veteran experience where as marte is long term and choo is a two year guy where the pirates will most likely make the playoffs both years whereas the tribe would not
“I want Choo. I want Choo. Oh yes, I want Choo……so bad” -Bob Dylan(and hopefully Frank Wren)
pretty sure this should be attributed to John Lennon
Pretty sure you’ve got the wrong song…….Though the lyrics are quite similar to what Lennon wrote.
Heisey and Didi for Choo? Not enough or too much?
Not enough.
What would be a good package for him then?
I’d be fine with the Reds giving up one of the pitching prospects..maybe both. V But i dont want to see any our outfielders go..except Xavier Paul.. That lineup would be unstoppable with Choo at the top..
Let me ask this annoying question. Choo doesn’t play CF, so what position exactly would he play for the Reds?
If I recall correctly, Choo has played some CF for the Indians before. I see now reason why he can’t play there.