1:10pm: There's no current discussion involving Crawford, Ramirez and Bell, ESPN.com's Buster Olney reports (on Twitter). The idea surfaced briefly as a concept and immediately died.
12:57pm: The Red Sox and Marlins are discussing a trade that would send Carl Crawford to Miami for Hanley Ramirez and Heath Bell, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports. The Marlins approached the Red Sox about the possible blockbuster, Nightengale reports.
The biggest impediment to the deal is the Marlins' indecision about their course for the rest of the 2012 season. Miami VP Dan Jennings is in Boston scouting Crawford, according to Nightengale. The potential trade would be the second-biggest contract swap in history, trailing only the 2004 trade involving Alex Rodriguez and Alfonso Soriano, Nightengale writes.
The Marlins are also discussing trades involving Josh Johnson and Anibal Sanchez, plus a deal that would send Omar Infante back to Detroit, Nightengale reports.
Ken Rosenthal reported earlier today that the Red Sox are determining trade interest in Crawford. However, GM Ben Cherington says there's "nothing going on" with the left fielder, who is in the second year of a seven-year, $142MM contract he signed following the 2010 season.
Yes, please.
(head explodes)
What.
Que?
The Red Sox have to be including prospects in that. Crawford hasn’t proved healthy enough yet to be worth Hanley and Bell despite their struggles.
Either that or (maybe more likely) adding a significant amount of money to the deal, so the Marlins get Crawford for cheap.
Money would be logical, but then the luxury tax would become a huge concern (considering Bell and Hanley would be on the Sox payroll).
Cheap, that does seem to be the Marlins way.
If I would have proposed this the mlbtr comment section would have excommunicated me
Honestly, I probably would have made fun of you…
Agreed. You’d be a laughing stock. But honestly, I don’t know how big of a difference this is for anyone, unless both teams are going for a “change of scenery” thought process.
Sometimes I wonder if the New York based media is just screwing with the Red Sox to try to promote doubt and dissent. These guys come up with the most “amazing” trade rumors.
Boston will have three proven closers now.
and yet, none
Whoa.
Who didn’t see this one coming?
No seriously what.
Make it happen Ben!
Forgive me, but I am completely drawing a blank on Hanley’s contract.
Would this be two bad contracts swapped for one?
Nope. Hanley’s contract isn’t bad. Not cheap, but not bad.
There’s got to be more coming from the Red Sox (whether salary relief or prospects) or the Marlins know something about Hanley we don’t.
He’s owed about 31 mill through 2014. So it’s more like two bad shorter term contracts for one atrocious long one
Why would the Sox want Heath Bell? Unless there is a 2nd Heath Bell that I don’t know of on the Marlins.
Couldn’t be a worse closer than Aceves, and couldn’t be less healthy than Bailey. Between the three of them they might have one complete closer.
The Sox probably don’t want him. I bet the Marlins are insisting he be included for money purposes.
Any chance Crawford could even pass his physical for this deal? He still needs TJ after the season.
Given that the Marlins know about that they wouldn’t nix the deal because of it showing up on the physical.
Are we sure they know about it? I mean, certainly they must, but maybe they don’t know about his contract? This trade doesn’t make any sense to me from the Marlins’ perspective, but I guess it wouldn’t be that far off from the Wells deal between Toronto and LAA.
If we know about it, I’m sure they know about it.
Whoosh!
What the hell is going on?
You tell us.
How did this get out!!!?!?!?
This sounds like it was thought up by some Red Sox fanboy. I’m sure the Marlins are gearing up for another disadvantageous trade, but it won’t be THIS bad.
Nope. Not going to happen.
The Orioles could do better to get Ramirez than the Red Sox!
Bell can stay in South Florida though!
Pure media driven nonsense
Absolutely.
You don’t. And there isn’t.
that was in response to everyone who will say we don’t need another closer and is there someone else you can package in the deal. Keep dreaming.
Wow!!! The Marlins must be desperate to get rid of Hanley and Bell if they are willing to take on that albatross of a contract.
If my math is right (from the start of 2012),
Ramirez+Bell: $73.5m, $24.5m/yr, expire 2014Crawford: $127m, $21.1m/yr, expires 2017
I agree, the Red Sox should send some money or a prospect the Marlins’ way.
Gotta love a good Marlin’s fire sale
Wait. What?
Unless there’s something about Hanley we don’t know…. what?
Why would the Marlins even consider this?
I know the rumor is dead, but why would either of these 2 teams consider it?
Heath Bell leads the NL in blown saves. Hanley is getting paid $15 million for his whopping .249 batting average. As a Marlins fan, I ask, “why are the Red Sox considering this?”
lol neither team would consider this. Marlins have a great OF as is.
LoMo really should be at 1B though.
To the Red Sox, Hanley is “the one that got away”. They probably really want him just because they had him before.
CC has upside. Bell has -0-. he cannot close, setup.. Ask any Fish fan this year. you don’t want him in any game at all. I doubt a change of scenery would do him any good even.
What this deal would be, is swap approx. 58m in contract value to Boston, of which Bell’s is a total lost cause. Send the Fish 126m in a player who is still just 30YO and has major upside and like it or not? Major talent that should play well for at least the next 3-4 seasons.
Boston would get Ramirez, who maybe sometimes isn’t the best personality on the marlins roster and signed thru 2014 and is under performing and in dire need of a change of scenery.
Truthfully? I don’t really think Boston should do it, especially if they have to send the Fish one dime of CC’s contract. I like the potential of Ramirez, but the team is going to be needing CC after Ellsbury walks, unless they were planning on using that cash saved (long term) to sign Ells.
Crawford is a dynamic player that is hard to replace, the type Ramirez was 2 and a half years ago, but not seen since and Bell is worthless now.
I personally would like to see Valentine and Ramirez interact. Over/Under on when one of them will blow up on the other?
How is this happening? I’m all for the Red Sox selling. However, I’m all for shedding Crawford (who can’t handle pressure here) for a RISK with Hanley and Bell.
But.. why? I don’t get this still from Miami’s stance..
As a cardinals fan I wish Pujols had signed with the Marlins and then got stuck there after they had a fire sale.
no comment
– marlins fan
olney just denied it…
There is nothing to this story….nothing to see here.
This is like a trade you make on a video game!!! Marlins must be regretting the move to sign Jose Reyes!
Well, Jose Reyes and Hanley Ramirez are essentially the same, but Reyes doesn’t have the attitude that Hanley has. What they must be regretting is not trading Hanley before the start of the season.
What’s the plan? Switch Hanley back to SS? I would hate to think we got rid of Youk to make space for Middlebrooks for all of three weeks. Plus, after Crawford’s game last night, I think he’s primed for big things. Hanley is kind of a disaster and doesn’t seem to really care about being the best he can be. Call it Rickie Williams disease. I don’t see Tommy John in the off season being a big deal for him either.
Well, it sounds like this report was overblown, but adding Hanley for 3B could free up Middlebrooks for that Upton trade…
And adding Upton for CF could free up Ellsbury for that Hamels trade…?
Felix, but right idea.
Ummm Advantage Boston
“Sources:There is no current discussion involving Crawford and Hanley Ramirez/Heath Bell. Was brought up briefly as concept,immediately died”
-Olney
Phew, the world makes sense again.
Wait, wait…throw in Lester for Johnson, too!!!
Well Crawford’s arm seems to be falling off or is that whole needing TJ surgery not a thing I read a couple weeks ago. He has been doing good as of late with a SSS but Hanley hasn’t been Hanley the last couple of seasons and Heath Bell well I’m not sure you want to move him into a hitter’s ballpark.
But hey I’m no baseball executive or scout so what do I know.
A significant amount of money? The dude is owed, what? $110 million still. The Sox aren’t going to absorb too much of that.
If they ate $35M of it Crawford would only be owed $14M per year, which would be pretty reasonable.
Well he hasn’t been playing like a $14 million a year player at all last season and this season. Add in the fact that he supposedly needs TJ surgery the trade really doesn’t make sense.
TJ surgery means essentially nothing when it comes to position players (he could have it after the season and be ready for spring training, and unless/until it completely lets go he can play through it). And if he had played in 2010 like he did last year someone would have still given him $14M per year based on his history, so I don’t see why it’s any different now.
It’s different now because at this point in his career this season and last have been lost and he isn’t worth the money that was given to him.
He never was worth the money given to him, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t worth $14M (he is).
You asked me how it is different now. How is it possible he is worth $14 Million at this point and time? I mean does his stats from last year and this year not show he is not worth $14 million?
Because players aren’t evaluated one a one year sample size. He has a decade long track record of significant success, and teams would pay him for that.
It isn’t just one year anymore. How can you trade a contract with already two lost seasons and justify a team paying $14 million? I mean wouldn’t that be the logical argument a team would make?
Miami approached Boston about this idea, so obviously not.
I think conversation went like this, “Here’s a joke what if we swapped Crawford for Ramirez and Bell?”
Guy (source) in room didn’t hear the word joke and relayed it back to Nightengale.
Yeah, I’m sure that’s what happened…
“TJ surgery means essentially nothing when it comes to position players”
Maybe in your world, but that means a lot to everyone else. Especially if it’s his throwing arm.
Position players don’t have to throw 100 pitches between 80 and 100 MPH, and they can come back from TJ surgery in 6 months. He can have it in the offseason and be back for spring training, and the success rate for positions players is even better than the success rate for pitchers. The effects from it for a position player are so minimal that they can continue to play through the injury without any real affect to their production. It really isn’t a big deal at all for a position player.
The idea surfaced briefly as a concept and immediately died.
Will there be a “Memorial Service?”
One more thing I don’t understand is why the Marlins would have a fire sale in the year of opening up their new stadium? I’m not sure that inspires the people of Miami to buy season tickets let alone regular season tickets.
and who will report the Jason Bay for reyes trade so the marlins can send back the left side of the infield where they came from and only absorbing 300m from 2 non playing left fielders to do it
NO NO NO….and……………NOOOOOOOOO!!! Crawford was MONEY and he’ll continue TO BE MONEY!! OVerpaid, ok, yeah, but he is an excellent ballplayer!! I believe he’ll be vital for the Red Sox for years to come. Ramirez has an attitude problem and Bell is not doing so well. I hope this trade DOES NOT go through!!
i agree…
I love Crawford and will back him 100% if his contract is over, but if I am Boston, DO IT.
I think Carl Crawford is gonna bounce back and perform, even though he is never gonna live up to his contract even when he is playing at an elite level…I think Carl is a hard worker and is determined….and he is starting to play well…i feel he was dropped into a bad environment last from the start and it just messed him up with the lineup changes and the pressure….he is part of the rebuilding and new blood of this team…
“I don’t always own MLB teams but when I do, I blow them up” – Jeffrey Loria
of course Olney blows this out of the sky…because he didn’t put it out there
Not sure what surprised me more. This rumor, or suddenly Disqus completely changing its format.
i thought it only changed on me lol good thing im not alone
Haha, now it includes a Thumbs down (or dislike) part.
Seriously. My head just stops spinning from the whole Crawford thing and Disqus goes and pulls this. I think I need a nap…
people need to stop making a big deal about Crawford possibly needing Tommy John surgery. He isn’t a pitcher people. Position players recover from tj usually in a month or two. Considering they don’t pitch thus not
Putting extra stress on the tendon it’s a quick easy and fast recovery type of procedure.
It would have been a good trade except where does Crawford play once Giancarlo returns, and what do the Sox do with Bell when Bailey shows up?
I’d guess that Crawford play LF with LoMo at 1B, and Bell becomes a setup man.
Crawford plays LF stanton plays RF
What could the marlins get for anibal Sanchez and Johnson any ideas?
spects for sanchie and a mix of younger controllable mlb players and prospects
i just hope they can resign sanchez next year because hes sort of a fan faorite for marlins fans
Any scenarios in mind?
it really just depends on the teams involved who i am haveing trouble deciding on who would get involved in either since their hasnt been any specific links to either
This might be a bit far fetched but do you think we can build a package around Johnson for Justin upton the dbacks are looking for a top of the rotation starter
hanley would be a more of what they are looking for but i dont think marlins would necessarily have a pos. 4 him unless he could work in left
“The idea surfaced briefly as a concept and immediately died.”
Ha! I enjoyed reading that quote. The only problem with it is that it perpetuates that dumb meme found in fantasy chats — you know the one; the one that ends in “Who hangs up first?” If I never heard that lame line again it would cause me happiness.
Please Ben… DO THIS IMMEDIATELY!!!!!
why dont the giants trade tim lincecum for hanley straight up? seems it fits both teams needs and they r both two young struggling stars
Because Giants aren’t going to give up on a pitcher who received two Cy Young awards and delivered the city its first Championship in 56 years. He’s a major fan favorite in the Bay Area and there would be a huge PR mess the organization would have to sift through.
And people wonder why Crawford has felt uncomfortable in Boston
huh
Can the Mets have Jose Reyes back?
The Marlins can have Mike Pelfrey and unlimited Shake Shack.
I take that deal if I’m the Marlins. Shake Shack is awesome.
Please, please let this be true. Bell AND Hanley out in one trade? WIN
this is why we need someone to keep stats on reporters. every rumor reported, every ‘source’ cited. i want to see people held accountable
this rumor is the the sports reporter equivalent of the vernon wells trade
This has to be the most one sided trade I have ever seen
I don’t hink Valentine has much say in this move…and it probably is something strong, regardless.
Just cause I’m a cards fan doesn’t mean I wasn’t smart enough to leave that city as soon as I could.
I meant Nightengale
No Michael Hill the Sox don’t necessarily have to take Bell if they wanted Hanley. Heath Bell makes NO sense for the Sox. Besides, the Marlins have other high contracts such as Zambrano.
(doesn’t matter now, rumor is dead)
He also traded Miguel Cabrera and Dontrelle Willis for Dallas Trahern (who?), Mike Rabelo (who?), Eulogio de la Cruz (lol), Burke Badenhop (lol), Cameron Maybin (LOL), and Andrew Miller (you gotta be kidding me).
The Marlins don’t have a high contract on Zambrano. He’s in the last year of his contract, and the Marlins are only paying $1M of it, with the Cubs paying the remaining $14M. The Marlins can cut Zambrano loose next season if they want, or offer him another contract if they really want him back.
Bonifacio is ok at CF, but they really should move LoMo to 1B and let Ruggiano stay at LF.
Ahh that’s right, well my point was to Kemppp was that the Red Sox do not have to get Bell if they wanted Hanley. That’s a silly analogy.
OK then, replacement level, but they would be better served moving LoMo to 1B first and then doing something about Boniface.
Andrew Miller and Cameron Maybin were elite prospects. Miller has been decent this year and last. Maybin had a breakout year at only 24. Badenhop for a couple years was one of the best middle relievers in the game until his arm fell off. Dontrelle Willis is retired and never amounted to anything since being traded. He won a grand total of 6 games after the Marlins traded him. Miggy is the only loss in that deal.