Here's a look at the latest out of baseball's two West divisions…
- In today's Insider-only blog post, ESPN's Buster Olney wrote about the Rangers calling up top prospect Jurickson Profar. He says the 19-year-old shortstop gives them flexibility going forward, allowing them to possibly market Elvis Andrus in a trade.
- Even though the August waiver trade deadline came and went, Giants skipper Bruce Bochy won't rule out a trade or acquisition in the coming days, tweets Andrew Baggarly of CSNBayArea.com. Baggarly adds that General Manager Brian Sabean continues to explore the market for players that can help down the stretch.
- The Padres are set to name cross-checker Billy Gasparino as their new scouting director, according to Keith Law of ESPN.com (via Twitter). Law, who worked with Gasparino in the Blue Jays organization, likes the move for San Diego.
- The Dodgers logjam in next year's outfield is a good problem to have, but still a problem nonetheless, writes Eric Seidman of Fangraphs. Recently, Shane Victorino said that he would like to return to Los Angeles in 2013 but scoffed at the notion of signing up for a bench slot. The Dodgers will likely need someone like a Victorino to act as an insurance policy for Carl Crawford or keep the seat warm for Yasiel Puig. Convincing someone of Victorino's caliber to sign up for a non-everyday role, however, will be challenging.
Mike Axisa contributed to this post.
The SF Giants are working on a deal with Philadelphia Phillies for Outfielder Juan Pierre. Pierre is a 35 year veteran who can get on base and steal bases and play good defense.
If you’re on this site, you most likely know who Pierre is. Pierre’s defense is ok, but he has no arm.
His speed in the outfield more or less cancels out the sub-par throwing arm, in terms of evaluating his defensive usefulness overall.
I refer to him as Noodles due to his arm
Source that’s still current?
He’s a 35 year veteran? Wow, that’s gotta be some kind of record, 35 years in the bigs.
I’m not impressed
Blanco has been horrible. I would not mind having Pierre as a decent LH PH, PR or possible platoon starter with Nady.
Where’s a source?
So the Giants are going to trade something of value for a guy they can’t use in the playoffs (assuming they get there)?
I think the Dodgers should go with Crawford, Kemp & the Cuban player. Ethier trade him for a starting pitcher.
Ethier’s contract is not going to net a good player. Dodgers would have to eat a lot to get a good return.
Ethier isn’t going anywhere and the outfield isn’t overcrowded unless and until Puig is ready, probably not before 2014.
While I don’t think he will be traded, I can’t imagine eating money is an issue for the Dodgers for some reason.
Next year LF will be the interesting one for the Giants: will they finally do the biz with Gary Brown and put him in CF 4 years after he was on the same team with Mike Trout on the National team. Likely not at the start. Angel Pagan will probably be convinced to sign as long if he’s willing to take less than 5 years which remains to be seen- i don’t think anything close to a Rowand like contract is likely. Pagan is in a contract year and those career #’s are a lot more predictable. Giants are clearly going to be in the market for a power hitting corner OFer.
I think Pagan gets a 2 or 3 year deal with the Giants.
As for Gary Brown…
I think he is at least one more season in the minors. He needs to fix his ability to hit RHs and get rid of his CS% because its quite terrible for a speed guy like him.
There’s no way Pagan’s going to ask for even 3 years, he’ll start with 5 but that’s doubtful. At 4 years it would be a question if any team is willing to give him something like 4/48. If that doesn’t happen I could see the Giants going 3/36, but like Beltran he may hold out for more and get the same or less somewhere else.
Brown won’t spend a full season in the minors next year after AFL. He’ll be 24 in Sept- Fresno won’t do enough for him. They think, like Belt, he’s going to progress steadily through aaa. He’ll likely follow along Posey’s path and come up when he catches fire in the PCL.
Pagan makes sense, alternatively a better corner OFer could entice them to let Pagan go and let Blanco or another, be a place holder.
Pagan is 31 with a career OPS of .749, nobody is going to even consider giving him a five year deal. I’d be shocked if he got more than three years.
Seriously this ^^^^^^^
3/36 sounds good to us.
The other four NL West teams
3 for 30 is fine.
Much better than Carl Crawford for 20 million a year.
You do realize on here they projected Bourn to get 16-22 mil through the reaping of his agent? 12 could easily be the going rate for starting CFers on a relatively short term deal.
Irrelevant. Just my opinion, but giving $36 million to Angel Pagan just sounds like a very bad idea for the Giants.
Bourn is not irrelevant- they are both leadoff hitting CFers, Bourn a year + younger. Here’s the numbers:
Bourn .274/.338/.364/.706
Pagan currently .281/.334/.423/.756
I’m talking in general what it might take to GET Pagan, 3/36 might be the min he’ll hold out for and like I said originally he may hold out beyond the Giants.
3/36 is not the minimum for Pagan. That’s ludicrous.
Bourn – 5.7 WAR
Pagan – 3.4 WAR
Pagan can “hold out” for whatever he wants, but even Sabean will laugh in his face if he asks for $36 million.
This year, Pagan has a wRC+ of 114, and for his career it is at 106. That’s good for a CF, but it’s not amazing. An AAV of $9m a year is already a reasonable price. I could imagine a 3yr deal for around $27m.
Of course the free agent market is not the same as real market value …
I agree with this notion. I think $9 million a year much better than $10 million. But I have a weird feeling $10 million is what it ultimately plays out to.
Bourn will never touch $20 million and if he does I pity whatever team has to watch him strikeout over 100 times a year. When the speed goes that contract is going to hurt that team.
Knowing Sabean it wouldn’t surprise me if he offered that…ugh.
If Pagan ask for five years the Giants FO should just laugh in his face.
Your assumption he’ll ask for five years after being a fringe player is wrong in my opinion.
He has no right to ask for that, well, he has a right but no ones going to give him that contract. You already made your argument about Brown and that’s the reason Pagan won’t get a 5 year contract.
The max years he will get is 3 and 4 if he’s really lucky.
As for Brown he’s a 4th outfielder. Until Brown learns how to hit RHs, stops getting caught stealing, and learns to take walk he’ll be a valuable asset. His game is based around his speed if he can’t get on base he’s going to be in major trouble because he has little power.
“after being a fringe player…” That statement isn’t correct. Pagan’s been a starting OFer for the past 4 seasons short injury, this being his greatest role yet considering he was playing with Reyes leading off and Beltran in the OF the previous 3 seasons. He could foreseeably be a starting OFer and a leadoff hitter for 5 years until he’s 36 so he’ll undoubtedly ask for that. I’m not saying he’ll get that or even 4, but he’s a free agent and he’ll name his price.
You speak of Brown “learning to hit RHers” in the MIL as if that’s the same as MLB, he’ll have to deal with with MLB pitching when he gets to MLB. After a certain number of ABs (already over 1100) he’s learned what he has to learn, and Fresno won’t teach him much more than Richmond.
Fringe meaning he hasn’t been good until this year. His game is also based around speed you don’t give speed guys that much money all teams will simple point to Carl Crawford who was younger than Pagan when he signed his deal. Honestly there’s no justification to giving him a 5 year deal.
Gary Brown has to learn. if RH AA pitching is giving him trouble he’s in for a rude awakening when he gets to the Majors.
Not sure if you’ve watched him in August but he’s been declining. Also I would like to mention it doesn’t excuse Gary Brown’s low walk rate or getting caught stealing for a supposed 80 speed guy coming out of college.
Your own words: “The max years he will get is 3 and 4 if he’s really lucky.” So if he’s really lucky how do you think he’s going to get 4? By starting his asking price there? That’s not how mlb works these days, you ask for more and concede to deals, you want 4 ask for more.
Brown’s OBP is still not there, he’s been hurt, but seeing a bunch of slop in Fresno isn’t going to make him want to walk more. The only way he’ll learn to walk is to have that rude awakening and realize he can’t get on base just hitting. Some guys take a long time to figure that out and the organization hasn’t tried to change him. Pagan is a perfect example of a guy just figuring out now at 31 how to walk on pace for the most in his career, and it’s still not a prototypical leadoff pace.
I said, “Four years if he’s really lucky” as in I think the odds of that happening would be 1 to 1,000,000.
All I know is this. One of us is going to be eating crow and I will admit that I’m wrong if you’re right.
But I’ll say this…go ahead and bring up 5 years on any dedicated Giants board and you’ll get the same response you’re getting from me.
A career .749 OPS does not warrant you any type of contract of what you’re suggesting.
You’ll never know what his agent’s original asking price is, or all the back and forth of negotiating. Show me where I said he’ll get that on this board?
The very fact that you brought up 5 years is what I was pointing out and saying there is no justification to it. Sure, the agent will start at that point because…well he’s an agent. But any smart GM will laugh at it and say, “Naw we’ll do three or two at $10 million a year.”
If they do $12 million a year for him they’re asking for trouble as @vtadave:disqus put it.
Consider that the Giants gave Rowand a contract after he had that career year. Only difference between Rowand’s career year and Pagan’s is Rowand hit 27 HRs with an OPS of .889. Also there was some PR work that needed to be done after Bonds departure.
David O’Brien says he thinks Bourn will ask for 5-6 years, 15+ mil. That means Boras will hold out for that kind of a deal, like he did with Beltran, even if it costs his client in the end.
Pagan is virtually the same player, with better career numbers and he’s a year and a half older. Why wouldn’t he start asking for a SIMILAR deal, especially if he’s going to take less $. You are seriously under valuing the worth of a leadoff hitting CFer- THAT was is WHY Bourn can ask for that ridiculous 16-22 deal.
Really? Again, you can ask for the world but all you will get is a laugh.
Sure Bourn can ask for $22 million. But let’s see in 2013 you have a CF free agent class of Upton, Hamilton, Victorino, Pagan, Hairston, and yes Cabrera is on the market. Plus any tradable players I have not mentioned.
Hamilton may or may not be retained by the Rangers. Now let’s assume he doesn’t get extended.
Okay, on the open market what does Hamilton get? Let’s say $20 million give or take.
Now you’re a GM and see Hamilton get that much money. Well heck that’s justifiable for an MVP candidate.
If Bourn gets $20 million something is seriously wrong.
“Virtually the same player” is a stretch. Bourn is a much, much, much better defensive CFer.
I understand asking for as much as possible, but no way Pagan should be expecting 3/36 and the Giants would be dumb to give him that much. I can not see a team giving him 12M/year. He’s a poor defensive OF, better suited to play LF and up until August he wasn’t doing too much with the bat either. Pagan as grown on me over the past month, but I wouldn’t want him for more than 2 or 3 years, and three is pushing it in my opinion.
Wait, does anyone in baseball actually think that Pagan is a $12MM per year player? I surely hope not. That would ruin my respect for GMs around the league.
Was thinking same way. NO ONE thinks Pagan is a 12mm per year player.
Puig is 20 years old. He is playing AFL this year. Then again, Harper and Trout were on the same team in the AFL last year. I am all for the Dodgers putting a 20 million dollar Crawford on the bench.
He is actually 21, and played in A+ this regular season. Still it’s way too soon to pencil him into a MLB lineup. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him at Spring Training, but I don’t know why anyone would expect him to start over Crawford at this point in their respective careers.
Exactly, I think they shouldn’t have resigned ethier. He is a solid player but not at that salary. Especially since he still gets eaten alive by lefthanders. But I guess LAD are still desperate to improve their team.
The Kasten guy from the ownership group said he couldn’t pass up on acquiring Adrian Gonzalez because they thought he’d never become available.
Victorino also has the advantage of the ability to move Kemp off of center field
which Crawford does not have. As a fan, I would rather see him in right field post hamstring injury.
yes, but with ethier locked up long term they can’t . 5/85 or $17M aav is overpay for ethier by quite a bit. He is not a good power hitter, but is being paid like one. .290/.360/.460 is replaceable in rf. Especially because do you now think that Kemp will be able to stick it out in center for another 5 years until Ethier is gone?
I don’t think with the way he can hit, the franchise’s investment in him in terms of $/years that the franchise should risk the increased risk of injury if there’s someone else that can defensively outplay him there. But no, I don’t see a 33 year old Kemp being able to man center field adequately. On Ethier, his early numbers showed he could hit lefties, his injuries have been mounting up quietly and he’s looking more and more like a platoon player, but I think he’s still movable, most especially to a park that plays well to him as a hitter.
He is actually 37
I think the Dodgers really messed up here. What was the reason to signing Yasiel Puig? To bring a power bat in a slumping lineup? I mean if they really wanted Gonzalez and if the Red Sox and Dodgers were talking about it in July, why didn’t they get the deal done sooner rather than later? Don’t get me wrong Gonzalez is a great player, I like him even if he is struggling right now, but where the hell are they going to do with this outfield situation? Realistically there going to keep Ethier and Kemp as a long term solution to the outfield. There going to let Victorino go, there going to give Crawford a chance to play and if he does well, then it would mean either Puig or him will be traded. I know what your think, why would the Dodgers trade Crawford? Well to get some pitching in, but who take Crawford’s contract even if he was doing well? Who knows, but who would take Puig’s contract if he was doing terrific as well? Either way, the Dodgers would be trading someone to somewhere adding to other bad decision makings that have happen in the past. (Pedro Martinez, John Wetteland, Mike Piazza, etc.)
Puig is playing in the low minors. Even if he develops quickly he’s not an everyday starting player, realistically, until 2014. Best case scenario, in a couple of years the Dodgers have too many great outfielders and have to trade one. This is called a good problem to have. BTW, the contraction of “they are” is “they’re” and the contraction of “you are” is “you’re.”
All that said, I don’t think any team in the history of the game has had four outfielders with 5+ year contracts at any given time. Making history isn’t always a good thing! I would imagine teams are going to be very skeptical of Crawford even if he bounces back in a big way in ’13. After that point he’ll be owed over 20m year for his age 32-35 seasons. An age where a player of his ilk is far different then the one in his 20’s, different as in less valuable.
WIth how crazy things are in LA, I wouldn’t be surprised if they offer Victorino more then any other team. Money talks, and he might not play everyday in the same position, but with the trio in fold, he should be in the lineup a ton, 500 AB’s, no problem.
My guess is if Puig does develop, and good grief for the contract they gave him they must feel pretty dang confident in that, Crawford becomes the crazy expensive 4th outfielder… when he’s healthy. Wouldn’t be surprised if taking on Crawford at 100m proves to be dumber then dealing Carlos Santana putting up huge numbers for impending free agent Casey Blake.
I wouldn’t bet on much in baseball, but I’d put good money on the Dodgers not signing Victorino this winter. They’ve already placed their markers on Kemp, Ethier and Crawford, also have Gwynn under contract for 2013, and potentially Puig coming up in a year. They could also exercise their option on Rivera, though I would not expect that. Victorino is an everyday player.
Also, Hairston can play LF. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Hairston out there if Crawford isn’t ready come Opening Day.
Very true, assuming he comes back from his injury.
Who would take on a 21 year-old outfielder who was doing “terrific” and making just $6 million a year? 20 other teams? 25? 29?
Plus, how do you know it would be a “bad decision” to trade either Crawford or Puig without knowing what the return is?
How many 21 year olds are making 6+ mill a year? answer: not many.
Reason to sign Puig? Most simply because MLB teams tend to want the most talent they can manage to afford. More specifically for the dodgers, the trades with the phillies and red sox were not sure things and the team had a hole in left field for multiple seasons. Third, you don’t hesitate to make a trade for an MLB level player because of a young international player you just signed that can be hit or miss despite the unusual contract they gave him.
Aww.. Pads should have given the job to Clint Eastwood.
Imagine the conversations he’d have with empty chairs.
no way does Victorino return to the Dodgers. He’s not going to agree to a bench spot for a short contract and the Dodgers are not going to sign him to a multi-year deal knowing they have Kemp, Ethier, Crawford and possibly Puig already signed to multi-year deals. Forgetaboutit.
Victorino wants to play center probally, so teams that are losing their starting center feilder like the Braves, Rays, and the Giants.
I would love to have Andrus on the Cardinals. We have zero SS prospects worth talking about. Matt Adams and Tyrell Jenkins should do the trick I think.
Probably not quite enough but we should be calling the rangers in the offseason about andrus. Wouldnt quite do Miller but maybe if they sent a little something back. Hes from Texas.
Andrus would be a nice addition to the Tigers. Wonder if a package around Porcello and Boesch would do it? Maybe sprinkle in Berry?
It would cost at least Avisail Garcia and Drew Smyly.
I would do Avisail/Porcello. Porcello would be better for Texas anyways. Good Sinkerballer that still has more upside. Maybe another mid prospect
The best chance of retaining Victorino is guaranteeing him a starting role. He’s earned it. Crawford is a question mark with a huge payroll # after his name but will have to prove himself and doesn’t have any leverage. Proven player>FA injury bust. If Crawford in a limited role lights the league on fire than you can trade whichever player you like the least.
I think the best team for Shane Victorino is The SF Giants as they need an impact player and he can play Left-Field and be a cog in their line-up.
Bogaerts was ranked #58 preseason, Profar #7.
Bogaerts has upped his stock with this season.
profar outperformed bogaerts last year and has a bit more professional experience. given bogaerts’ performance this year, that’s probably a wash now
the biggest thing that separates them is defense. profar is going to stay at short and probably play above average defense there. bogaerts has always been expected to be moved to 3B