The Yankees have inquired with the Padres about the possibility of trading for some of San Diego's infield depth, reports Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports (Twitter links). The most realistic target is utilityman Logan Forsythe, according to Morosi.
Though New York would undoubtedly like to acquire a more impactful player, such as third baseman Chase Headley, Morosi explains that the Yankees farm system does not have enough talent to swing such a move. That makes a more modest acquisition more likely, though of course New York has several utility options (including Eduardo Nunez and Brendan Ryan) already under contract.
The 26-year Forsythe is a versatile fielder, and Morosi notes that his right-handed bat could make him a platoon option with Kelly Johnson at third. (It is worth noting, however, that Johnson has actually hit slightly better against southpaws over his career than he has against opposite-handed pitching.) Forsythe would also provide insurance for Brian Roberts at second, as he has spent the majority of his MLB time at the keystone.
Over 762 career plate appearances between 2011-13, Forsythe has a cumulative .241/.310/.349 line. He has also registered 17 stolen bases over that period. After a solid 2012 campaign in which he registered a .273/.343/.390 triple-slash (good for a 107 OPS+), Forsythe struggled last year with a .214/.281/.332 mark.
It has to be headley, but who would the Yankees trade? Gardner?
That’s actually a fair trade assuming the Padres needed an OFer, though I don’t think they do.
Would the Padres do that? I was under the impression that Headley was available at least partially because of fears of him leaving when he’s a free agent in 2015. Wouldn’t they have the same problem with Gardner? Although, that point is probably moot when you factor the considerable savings they’d have with Gardner instead of Headley.
Eh, so maybe I just answered my own question.
Haha yeah you pretty much did. Assuming that neither of the 2 get an extension or are traded during the year, both players at the end of the year would definitely receive a QO
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Both teams would seem to benefit quite a bit from this. And for whatever it’s worth (maybe nothing), Headley would become a FA as Arod would be eligible to return.
Even though A-Rod would be eligible to return, I’d still be surprised to see him play for the Yankees again. I see them just eventually paying out his contract and no longer playing him.
I think, given the circumstances, no one, not the Player’s Association, not the other prospective free agents, would hold it against the Yankees if they released A-Rod.
if they’re on the hook for his salary and hate him that much, wouldn’t it be better to not cut him to ensure he doesn’t play another game?
A) I didn’t say they hated A-Rod. I imagine they do but I didn’t say it.
B) If he serves his suspension, in 2015, if they don’t release him, they have to keep him on the 25 man roster and he probably won’t be one of their 25 best options. They can’t send him to the minor leagues because, due to his service time, he can refuse an assignment. They can’t keep him on the DL if he’s not hurt, the Player’s Association doesn’t allow that. They’d be stuck with him.
People may not like him, but it is crazy to say that ARod won’t be one of the 25 best options for the Yankees. He played pretty decently in his short stint last year.
I am just imaging 15 years down the road when someone like yourself is saying that Team A needs to release Trout or Harper because they aren’t worth their $50 million a year. 15 years ago people were saying the same stuff about ARod that they are saying about Trout and Harper now. The circle of life sure is funny.
Coming off 2 seasons of (essentially) not playing, it’s easy to imagine A-Rod’s skills eroding to a point where he’s hardly even a shadow of what he used to be. Even in the month that he was “healthy” last year, he didn’t manage to to make it 2 weeks before a hamstring injury and a groin injury limited him to DH duty. He will not hold up very long playing third base so he’s strictly a DH, which they will probably need for Beltran and maybe Tex in 2015.
Cashman, please fix the bullpen first!
I’m not too worried about the Yankees bullpen. Especially when they start adding solid starting pitching. Young guys who were competing for the bullpen will transition into the Bullpen and actually create some depth in that area.
Right now I can only think of 4 non-long relievers – DRob (excellent), Kelly (good, not great), Thornton (mehh), and Claiborne (struggled heavily as the season went along after a hot start).
Robertson drives up his pitch count heavily and unlike Mariano, you can’t throw a guy who throws 20-30 pitches a game for 3 straight games. Kelly is not a guy I’d trust to get a save nor to be a 8th inning pitcher. They still need at least 1 or 2 more solid relievers. If they add that + Tanaka (Tanaka is a big if of course, he could very well go to LA), their pitching is pretty much set then.
That just leaves them to add on to the IF depth chart of Tex/Jeter/Roberts/KJ. I don’t think they have a reliable backup 1B either. Their IF outside of catcher and 1B (assuming Tex is healthy) is pretty weak all around, though you can’t be strong at every single position.
I get what you mean, trust me I do, but I agree with DJD. The reason is because the Yankees have A LOT of young flame throwing arms that seem destined to be failed starters (a la Betances). I would give he and Ramirez a shot and see how they do in ST. I always seem to forget about Montgomery and I know he had a down/injured year last year. They can make the bullpen work, but I wouldn’t complain if we signed Balfour.
We have so many infielders coming into camp, I’ve lost track 🙁
Totally agree, John. I’d love to see what we can get out of Ramirez and Betances out the Bullpen. Rivera himself raved about Ramirez and his stuff. Going in-house and creating our own strong bullpen is a great way to have valuable trade pieces later on. We’ll be smart to add a Balfour or Rodney but besides that we just have to rely on the young guys we have.
You think the outfield is weak? You have a top 5 CFer in Ellsbury who is not only GG caliber but is the best lead-off man in the game and playing at Yankee Stadium he could be a 20 hr guy, Carlos Beltran who is still above average and RF defensively and next to Texiera ( when healthy) and McCann (when healthy) is your best all around hitter. Brett gardner who can play good defense and run like a deer and your fourth outfielder currently is Ichiro Suzuki who even though he is old now and is on the decline is still an above average starter not to mention Soriano will see time out there and he can still hit! And jeter will be playing a full season and he is still above average. So explain to me please how the only positions they are strong at are 1B (when tex is healthy) and Catcher?
I think you should re-read what I wrote.
Oh haha im sorry i read it wrong.
No problem man. I do that once in a while myself.
Gardner for Headley makes way too much sense. Padres have a crowded infield, need outfield, Yankees have a crowded outfield, need an infield. Both have 1 year of control.
And yes the padres have a lot of outfielders, but really no quality ones..
Yeah but Gardner doesn’t make them a contender. I mean, yeah, he’d probably be their best outfielder but if they’re not going to contend any way, who cares if their outfielders aren’t the greatest?
According to the depth chart on MLB’s web page, the Padres OF is Quentin/Maybin/Venable/Denorfia/Smith/Blanks/Armarista. The only one who had a higher WAR last year than Gardner was Denorfia.
exactly! And even so, Denorfia is more of a solid 4th outfield type than a starter on a contending team
according to the Oliver projection Quentin/Maybin/Venable/Smith/Denorfia project to ~11 WAR, which is actually the same as Ellsbury/Gardner/Ichiro/Soriano/Beltran believe it or not.
the Padres don’t “need” an outfielder, just like they don’t “need” to get rid of Chase Headley unless a deal is too good to pass up.
Okay, honestly I am laughing at the fact that you would attempt to make a case to say that the padres OF is as good as the Yankees. Ellsbury might be the best CFer in the game and he certainly is the best lead off man. He is an all star. He is 10 times of a better player alone than the five Padres guys you just named together. Gardner is a gold glove caliber LFer who gets on base at a decent clip and can run you to death. Ichiro while he is old now is still a quality player. he is good for a .270-.280 average 15-20 stolen bases and good defense. For those of you who love stats, both his OWAR and DWAR were above replacement level last season. Although Soriano has never been an excellent fielder and to his disadvantage he will be 38 this season, he can still hit. He is still good for 30 homeruns 100 RBIs and a .265 average with 15 bases swiped. Beltran is still good for a .290 avg with 70-90 RBIS and 20- 25 HRs while playing well enough defense in RF.
Quentin is a below average defender who can’t run, But he can hit .270 25 HRS and 80-90 RBIs
maybin is good for .240-.250 avg. 40-50 RBIS and 5-10 HRS.but he can swipe 30 bases and play well above average D in CF.
Will Venable is good for 50-60 RBIS and 15- 20 HRS with a .265 avg. who can swipe 15 bases and provide average D
Seth Smith is a platoon player. he is good for .245 10 HRs 40 RBIs He has average speed and is a slightly below average defender. he can NOT hit lefties and can hit rightys alright.
Denorfia is a .275 hitter with 10 HRs 40-50 RBIs and 10 stolen bases while playing above average D
according to the Oliver projection Quentin/Maybin/Venable/Smith/Denorfia project to ~11 WAR, which is actually the same as Ellsbury/Gardner/Ichiro/Soriano/Beltran believe it or not.
the Padres don’t “need” an outfielder, just like they don’t “need” to get rid of Chase Headley unless a deal is too good to pass up.
The Padres won’t be getting rid of Headley unless they are overwhelmed with an offer. And this team could definitely contend this year. On paper this is the best Padres team leading up to a season since 2008. As long as the Pads are in the hunt, Chase isn’t going anywhere.
And our outfield is more crowded than our infield, btw. But the Padres have high quality depth throughout their entire roster. Should serve them very well, despite not having much top-tier talent.
No.
No interest in Forsythe.
If people keep saying how bad the Yankees farm system is, how does Baseball America and other sites continue to rank them in the middle of the pack? In October it was ranked 16th. That is not strong at all, but when you hear weak, you think bottom 5-10, which they aren’t ranked in either. It’s a very simple question.
If it’s weak, then there are 14 other teams that are weaker.
Morosi didn’t say it was bad though, just that it’s not strong enough to land a player like Headley, and he’s right.
I”m not talking about Morosi only because he’s not the only one who says it.
Headley has 1 year left on his deal and it’s not going to take a strong farm to get him. You’re saying half the league doesn’t have the talent to acquire a player with 1 year left on his deal who’s probably not even a top 5 at his position?
I wouldn’t go that far, but Headley isn’t far off from a 7.2 fWAR season either. You did mention Gardner earlier, which is a pretty solid trade for both teams. I do personally think it would take a little more to land him though.
More than Gardner despite him being more valauble when he plays?
Headley has the edge in WAR, 19.0 to 17.8, but he’s played over 200 more games than Gardner.
I think it’s a completely fair swap.
Maybe the numbers make sense but in terms of filling a need for the Padres, it makes no sense
True. I never suggested the trade. Only if the Padres needed an OFer and based on their depth chart, it looks like they don’t.
With his defense and a career .293/.366/.453, 121 wRC+ road batting line I’d put money on Headley being top 5 at third outside of San Diego, especially with Cabrerabck at first in 2014.
That’s hyperbole. The Yankees could acquire Chase Headley, he’s just certainly not worth what the Padres are asking.
I agree completely. I’m sick of hearing that they don’t have the goods. They just don’t want to meet the price.
Farm depth comes into play here though, they might be more willing to meet the price if they had better depth. Right now the system is middle of the pack, however if they make a decent sized trade it’s basically shooting them right to the bottom.
Alberto Callaspo (;
May want to check your notes on Forsythe’s speed… His major league SB stats are only 17, not 57 (big difference), and even combining those with his minor league SBs and he still doesn’t even reach 57 cumulative.
Mistakenly plugged in his career RBI totals from the next column over. Big difference, thanks for noting.
Mistakenly plugged in his career RBI totals from the next column over. Big difference, thanks for noting.
How about Ichiro? And NOT Gardner.
lol not a chance
You think anyone wants Romine? Yankees need bullpen arms
Padres already have a catcher named Austin in Austin Hedges so it won’t be for a Padre reliever. Though Romine could get them a solid relief pitcher from another team.
The Padres already have a crowded OF and no one to cover 3B/2B if they trade Headley. It’s not a good fit for the Padres. Trades have to work for both teams not just the Yankees.
Not true. The Jake Peavy trade, the Adrian Gonzalez trade and the Mat Latos trade didn’t work out for the Padres. I agree with you that they shouldn’t trade Headley because we have no other viable 3rd basemen besides Gyorko and I think they like him at 2nd. But trades don’t HAVE to work out for both teams so I wouldn’t be surprised if they trade Headley anyway.
I’m not talking about the end result. I’m saying that trades have to make sense for both teams. All of those trades you mentioned made sense at the time. This proposal makes none for the Padres.
Do it Padres!!!!!! Forsythe is expendable. I’m not sure the Yanks have anybody we’d be interested in but clearing roster space may be a valuable commodity
How many of the same type of players do you need? Don’t waste a prospect on this guy.
My guess is they are trying to trade Forsythe or Amarista for a quality left handed reliever.
That move would make sense, and Forsythe is more likely to get traded. Amarista only really has appeal to NL teams, plus Forsythe isn’t very viable as a back-up SS. Blanks also could be a trade option.
Rotochamps is saying the Yankees expressed interest in Logan Forsythe.
Looking at his 2012, I think there’s some potential here – .273/.343/.733.
Sizemore, Forsythe, Anna, Solarte, Johnson — keep adding. Hope one stands out.
I would just put Nunez at third just for this year.
Padres don’t need a catcher.
Nunez is not suited to be an everyday player considering his defense. He also posted a negative war in the time he did play. And he’s battled injuries while with the Yankees. He also doesn’t get on base enough. Yankees are smart to stockpile options that over time can be better.
Nunez is a solid backup. Not a starter on a team trying to make it back to the playoffs. Besides, he is your best option at SS if Jeter gets hurt.
Forsythe will come at a reasonable cost and can play numerous positions and wont cost much while hitting decent.
Your 2014 New York Back Ups!
They play in Queens
“He does bring speed to the table, as he has registered 57 stolen bases…”
Wrong!
He has only 17 stolen bases 2011-2013.
You looked under the wrong column of his stats. He has 57 RBIs.
baseball-reference.com/players/f/forsylo01.shtml?u…
Yes, realized this upon reading the comment above. My mistake; edited.
Doesn’t make sense they already have a Logan Forsythe on their roster. He is virtually the same player as Eduardo Nunez.
Forsythe makes fewer errors.
Forsythe makes fewer errors.
This might be an opportunity for the white sox to jump into a three team trade and grab one of the yankee’s catchers
Looks to me like the Yankees are preparing to have a revolving door of IF;ers at 2B and 3B, and perhaps SS.
SS shouldn’t be revolving, if Jeter’s healthy he’s playing short no matter hiw poorly he plays and if he’s not I imagine the position is Ryan’s the rest of the year.
Looks to me like the Yankees are preparing to have a revolving door of IF;ers at 2B and 3B, and perhaps SS.
Chase Headley is EXTREMELY over-valued.
Maybe. But for Gardner? Come on…
No, I have no problem with that deal; but when you start talking adding prospects to the trade, & how “the Yankees farm system doesn’t have enough talent to swing such a move”. That’s INSANE, and doesn’t compute well.
Chase Headley is EXTREMELY over-valued.
Yankees get Chase Headley and Cameron Maybin
Padres get Gardner, heathcott, jagielo, bird, Clarkin.
Yankees get their 3B, padres get a better bat in Gardner and out from under the Maybin deal while keeping a speedy guy, and knab some prospects.
As far as value goes , Headley and Gardner are close to equal. So you expect the Yankees to practically trade their whole farm away for a guy with a career .681 OPS in 7 seasons and will be a free agent in 2 years I believe? As Mike Francesca says , “What are you out of your mind???”
I don’t expect them to pull the trigger but they’ll have to overwhelm Byrnes to trade Headley. If they really want him which is a clear upgrade at 3B for them they’ll have to toss more prospects at the padres for Headley than a team like the pirates who have been linked to Headley. Soon as they grade for Headley they’ll extend him 4-5 years. They’ll want 3/4th at least of what they got from the Adrian Gonzalez deal for Headley as the Red Sox immediately extended him 7 years or so.
Jeter to third? Cal Ripken? Brendan Ryan’s glove needs to be at 2b with Brandon Phillips.
People you have to remember that of course Gardner would rival Headley’s sabre-metrics. He’s playing in one of the best ballparks for a left-handed batter! Not to mention there aren’t any big parks in the AL East anyways – Toronto, maybe – but nothing that rivals that of AT&T, Dodger, or Petco. Headley’s numbers are bound to go up if he goes to the East.
Gardner for Headley would be the stupidest deal for SD, unless the Yanks have good prospects, which doesn’t sound like they’d have the quality prospects for a Headley deal.
And yes, Headley had a down year this past season, but he’s stellar at D and has great OBP numbers, with the potential – as we saw in 12 – to smack some dingers.
There really isn’t anybody on the Yanks that I’d want for Headley. Our SP is good enough and the rest of the Yanks players are too expensive anyways. Bad move if it happens.
Point of clarification – I put 11 for Headley’s 31 HR season, but meant to put 12.
Gardner has a higher AVG, OBP and Slugging percentage on the road than at YS. Check numbers, don’t make assumptions.
Headley leads in WAR 19.0 to 17.8 but he’s played in over 200 more games. WAR/season Gardner is ahead. So No it is not a stupid trade for San Diego. Though they dont need OFers so it doesn’t make sense for them. You overvalue Headley and undervalue Gardner. There’s more to baseball than HRs. Oh yeah you mentioned OBP and defense , Gardner is ahead in OBP and UZR/150 (not sure what else I can use to compare an IFer and OFer defense) Gardner is ahead
As I said, go based on the numbers. Men lie , women lie , numbers don’t
“Not to mention there aren’t any big parks in the AL East anyways –
Toronto, maybe – but nothing that rivals that of AT&T, Dodger, or
Petco. Headley’s numbers are bound to go up if he goes to the East.”
It’s hard to add up all the splits by division, but his career in interleague – .241/.309/.369. Not impressive to me. Not to mention that Yankee Stadium is not a park that many right handed hitters have had success in, and I certainly do not expect Headley to be an exception either. If you were to say it’s a bad trade for either of the 2 teams, it would be for Yankees. Though I don’t think it’s a bad trade for either (hence the If). It is a completely fair trade and until you show me actual numbers that could say otherwise instead of your assumption, I’d like to hear a better argument from your sake on why it’s a bad trade for San Diego.
Edit – I don’t see my other post where I did provide numbers, but in case it does not get posted up, for arguments sake, Gardner is a better hitter Away than at Yankee Stadium, so to say his numbers are only good because he hits at Yankee Stadium is completely inaccurate
There are injuries involved with both Forsythe and Headley. Forsythe played in only 75 games due to tendinitis in his foot, and has lost time from broken bones in both feet. He’s a third baseman who plays second and can fill in for a short time at SS, and he wasn’t available when Headley missed 15 games with a broken thumb, or when Gyorko at second missed six weeks with a groin pull. That hurt when the Padres starters at C, 1B, 2B, SS, and 3B all spent time on the DL last year.
Headley has been a workhorse, but after last season he had surgery on a knee that was bothering him all year. The thumb seemed to bother him until the last month of the season, but the knee injury is similar to the one that has cost Quentin too many games to count. His bat may look better, but you have to wonder if the D has begun a long downward slide.
How about Austin Romine for Matt Lindstrom? Lindstrom has experience in the back end of the Pen. He is a hard thrower. He has been durable throughout his career. He only makes 4 million this season and his contract will be expiring at the end of the 2014 season so he will not be blocking any young arms from potentially taking over in the coming years in the 8th or 9th inning. Also, Romine would supply the WhiteSox with a young catcher who is extremely cheap. Romine will be in his age 25 season. He was once regarded as one of the top prospects in the Yankees system and a top 100 two years in a row in baseball only a few years ago. The WhiteSox are searching frantically for catching help. The best case scenario for the WhiteSox getting him is he turns out to be an above average starter eventually and they have their next long term catcher. Worst scenerio is they dump 4 million$ and pick up another guy to compete with Flowers, Nieto and Phegley for a spot on this years roster, doesnt make it, but provides depth.