Here are the highlights of the latest rumors column from Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe:
- The Red Sox don’t “hate” Yoenis Cespedes, despite a previous report that indicated otherwise. But Cafardo suggests Cespedes didn’t do enough work on his defense after arriving in Boston, and his offense wasn’t enough to compensate for it. Cespedes has only one year left on his contract, but it’s not clear whether, or when, the Red Sox will deal him.
- Cafardo says he got “a minute of straight laughter” when he asked if the White Sox might trade Chris Sale.
- The Red Sox and Athletics could discuss a Jeff Samardzija trade. Cafardo speculates Red Sox shortstop prospect Deven Marrero could be a potential piece, given that the A’s appear to be about to lose Jed Lowrie (to free agency) and already lost Addison Russell (when they traded for Samardzija in the first place).
- Now that they’ve acquired Hank Conger, the Astros could listen to offers for fellow catcher Jason Castro. Castro hit just .222/.286/.386 in a disappointing offensive season in 2014. He has two years remaining before free agency.
Damage control for the Red Sox.
Today they don’t “hate” him, the other day they were “not looking to move him.” Someone really muffed it up with all that Cespedes hate. heh
Samardzija for Marreo and Mookie Betts
and Matt Barnes
Js wasn’t that good for the A’s to command three of top 7 prospects and that was the move to the AL now you’ve got him moving to the East hitter friendly parks and killer line ups….this would never happen and it would kill his career. He should be traded back to the NL where he could thrive for say SF
Betts alone is worth more that Samardzija.. Samardzija for Barnes and Marrero
Still too much. Say no to Barnes and add Workman and Brentz. EDIT: Changed my mine, see below, this is a fair deal.
Would you do that if you were Billy? Marrero, Barnes, and a lottery ticket for Samardzija seems fair.
Yeah, you’re probably right. Didn’t realize Barnes was so old, think I’d do that if I were the Red Sox. Marrero, Barnes, and Brentz is fair IMO. Unless Billy would want Workman instead, but he would probably want Barnes given his former top prospect status.
You have got to be kidding me. The A’s traded a top 10 prospect in baseball for him, and you want to acquire him for 2 guys not in the top 100 at all, and more likely on the low end of the top 10 for the team?
The A’s severely overpaid, by a huge margin. Samardzija was valued more to them than any other team. Technically, the A’s got Samardzija for two years in that deal. Now that their is only one year left on his contract, his value is about half that (maybe a little more) PLUS, he was never worth Russell anyways, it’s just all the A’s could offer in value to the Cubs. For Samardzija IMO, the Cubs were lucky to get two prospects in the top 50, but the A’s blew them away.
Was for a year and a half of Samardzija. He still worth way more than half that, because at worst he would be worth a draft pick at end of year. The guy still put up a 3.14 era in 100+ innings for the A’s. Maybe Mookie off the table, but Samardzija is going to cost at least one of Owens, Swihart
Well, the Red Sox are better off going after Hamels then, who is the better pitcher, has more years of control, and probably will only cost a fair bit more than Samardzija. Samardzija’s only great year was last year. Other than last year, he hasn’t proven he is a no.2, other than the ability to rack up innings and strikeouts.
It says could so that means the A’s have not approached the redsox at all. The A’s already have a SS prospect that is better at the AA level for next year. This is just a wishful thinking for a writer.
I don’t know what a fair price for one year of Smardziga would be but Mookie Betts is too much given all those cheap years and service time.
Oh probably, Mookie looks really good, he seems to be a keeper. But to think that you are going to get Samardzija back without giving up something valuable is nuts. Oakland valued him enough to give up Adison, they value him highly.
I’ve gotta agree.
SoxProspects currently ranks Matt Barnes and Deven Marrero only seventh and 12th in a farm system depleted by the graduations of Xander Bogaerts, Mookie Betts, Jackie Bradley, Christian Vazquez and Allen Webster. Addison Russell ranks higher on prospect lists for the entire MLB.
Barnes and Marrero are 24-year-olds who have fallen short of expectations for first-round picks. This year in his only season above Double A, Barnes posted an ERA of 3.95 and a WHIP of 1.29 in 23 appearances, including 22 starts. In his only 50 games above Double A, Marrero posted a .210/.260/.285/.545 line in 202 plate appearances. Marrero’s glove is unlikely to compensate for his other shortcomings.
Sure hope the A’s can do better than Marrero, a 24 year old non-hitting prospect. The gave up the top two prospects in the farm system and for three months of Shark they get what for the return? Just keep him get the draft pick in 2016. Then, get Asdrubal Cabrera as a FA to play SS/2B until Robertson is ready. Or, trade the former Cub to Boston for Yoenis Cespedes.;)
Even more no
They most likely won’t be trading Betts.
No, Betts is way more valuable than that. Nice try though.
The Red Sox aren’t a stupid team, and very rarely trade their highly valuable prospects. Mookie Betts is going nowhere, especially not for no.2 starter with one year of control left. More like Marrero, Brentz, and Workman. This would be a fair deal for both sides. The A’s get a great glove man who has to learn to hit in Marrero, Brentz who is a Rule 5 guy, but might provide value next year, as well as Workman, who could end up being a middle of the rotation arm (but more than likely a no.4 or 5) or a very good reliever (I could see him as a future closer, he has a great curveball and a decent fastball).
I’ve said multiple times. The only way Betts is traded is if the name Stanton is in the deal. He’s too valuable to Boston as the lead off guy they lost when Jake left. They finally found his replacement and won’t just deal him unless it’s in a prime package.
The thing about this proposed trade is …..
The A’s and Red Sox have established themselves as a form of moneyball teams that gauge players as commodities and move them around based on their value that year. It is doubtful that any player traded would be with that them in 3 years, and possibly 2. What those 2 organizations do is more a yearly fantasy baseball draft and less building a major league team – as say the Giants and Royals have done.
When saying the Royals have been building a major league team, keep in mind how many last place finishes it took to finally build it. Can’t blame any team that does NOT use the Royals as a “how to” example.
OK….
How do you feel about what the Cubs and Astros have done the past 4-5 years?
Hint – when one builds a solid farm system, a way of playing ball, and camaraderie…..an organization can be competitive for a long period of time…..not go from a WS winner to finishing 25 games out in last place in one year.
Which explains why the Giants and especially the Royals always make the playoffs.
The Giants have won 3 WS’s in 5 years. The Royals just knocked down the door this year.
Your point?
Betts won’t be moved unless the A’s are quality major league pieces, and I’m saying that as an A’s fan. I think one of Owens or Rodriguez would be in the neighborhood for the main piece, considering ERod was moved for a few months of Andrew Miller. Marrero certainly fits as a secondary piece. Maybe a bullpen arm or a low-level lottery ticket as a third piece.
No
The A’s have Robertson at the SS coming up. ( a bit behind Marrero at level and age)
I would demand Swihart c, Marrero, Johnson P and Betts 2b/ofer and have them throw in the near MiLB FA Brentz too
The Shark is a massive talent. One the A’s should keep/extend and fill in around. If the owners were not so cheap that is. The A’s are a 40 million dollar payroll commitment from being a very competitive team this year. Bringing to around 120 million in payroll. These numbers are extremely flip-able if things go south.
This is ridiculous
Swihart is not getting traded…he is off limits unless deal is for TOP TOP player and that may not get him. Betts will go before Swihart from what I read. And dont forget Betts isnt just an OF he can play 2nd also. Logic says Betts will be traded..if not for Stanton for a top tier pitcher for which Shark isnt quite in that tier. But the A’s arent getting either Betts or Swihart if there is a deal.
Jason Castro might be a pretty good Plan B if/when the Pirates can’t re-sign Martin.
the whole cafardo article has more to it–there’s an extended a-rod riff, a suggestion that cespedes be traded to atlanta for the (good) Upton (i can’t imagine why the Brave would even consider that) and some back-chatter about lack of fire in the Red Sox clubhouse.
upton for cespedes is a pretty neutral trade- both being ~3 win players with huge contracts due in free agency soon. i don’t really see the point.
As a Red Sox fan, I’d do that deal. Cespedes provides too much defensive value in left field at Fenway, and Upton’s better offensive presence would be more appreciated. Basically, the Braves get a better defender and a good hitter, while the Red Sox get a better hitter and little-below-average defender, which is ok in LF at Fenway. Would the Braves actually do that trade though? I’d think they’d tried to re-sign Upton at a small discount saying his brother is in Atlanta. I think they could afford it, given they let Heyward walk at next season’s end.
Agreed! Can’t see the Braves trading Upton, unless they get something back that they can keep past next year. The only reason Upton is trade fodder is his expiring contract and pending free agency. Getting back the same is not going to do it.
We’re not trying to summarize the entire article, just the highlights. The A-Rod stuff isn’t in our wheelhouse. And I don’t think Cafardo was suggesting the Red Sox trade Cespedes for Upton, he was suggesting they deal Cespedes in a trade that resembled the proposed Syndergaard-for-Upton deal.
thanks for the response–wasn’t criticizing your posting in the least-just suggesting people read the whole cafardo article.
Always good advice.
I’m still trying to figure out why the Sox traded Lackey last year for Joe Kelly and the ghost of Allen Craig. I think the haul from that trade looks pretty unimpressive: Craig looked done and doesn’t seem to have a position in the Sox’ lineup. Joe Kelly is looking like a replaceable 4-5 starter. Acquiring Samardzija now for legit prospects makes that trade look bad because I don’t think Samardzija will give them more than Lackey would have (at the league minimum to boot!).
They probably took what they could get because Lackey said he had plans to not pay at the league minimum for the Red Sox, so pretty much he would retire.
Hard to think that was a serious threat. He confirmed he would play at the league minimum in 2015 shortly after the trade.
Either that or he was indirectly for a contract extension.
I’d venture, as you suggest, that the contract extension was the issue. But, I doubt he’d have actually retired.
He never said that
Talk Lackey wouldn’t play if they traded Lester away. They feel Kelly can be a #2 if he can work on his walks. They won’t trade Owens, Swihart, Betts, Bogaerts, Devers, Margot, or Rodriguez for Samardzija. Marrero and say Barnes could be in play; maybe Coyle.
Unfortunately, Kelly will never be a reliable no.2. Like you said, he walks to many but also, he isn’t very durable. His pitching mechanics aren’t very good, and is TJ surgery bound. As well as his bad pitching mechanics, he always injures himself one way or another. He could be a very dominant no.4, however.
I feel like there’s no shortage of guys on the Red Sox’ roster that could be really good if they did one thing better, especially among the pitchers. Webster would be excellent, for example, if he could avoid the walks. My point is that the Sox should have gotten more predictable value when trading a chip like Lackey who has been very good over the last couple of years.
So basically you think you are going to get a good pitcher from a contender, while giving nothing value up.
yep
You don’t think Lackey had value?
One year of a #2 pitcher for multiple years of a #3, and a guy who could be their starting 1B for several years if he rebounds. They sold high on Lackey, and bought low on (at least) Craig.
Do you really think Joe Kelly is a #3? I just don’t see it. His control is fringy and he has some ugly K/9s. His FIPs and xFIPs all figure him as what he is. I think he’s more of a #4 or #5. I think he’s probably got some upside, maybe with a few standout years ahead, but I think the Red Sox have a ton of those back of the rotation guys with potential in their upper minors right now.
I also think Craig is done. I’m not even sure where they play him next year, unless they trade Cespedes. But, how could they trust Craig to hold down LF after last year?
Should have said potential #3. His results haven’t matched his stuff yet, but a little refinement and I think he’s a #3. Also, Craig had a bad year last year, but he’s one season removed from putting up a 134 wRC+ (137 the year before, and 154 before that), and it looks like a mechanical issue – he started hitting everything on the ground last year.
I would be less apt to write off Craig if his season hadn’t been so awful. “Bad” is almost an insufficient term for how terrible he was last year. His 69 wRC+ last year was fifth worst among all qualifiers. His closest competitors were primarily shortstops who could offset the hitting woes with their defense and baserunning. I feel like he’s a complete X-factor for next season. After all the problems the Red Sox had with outfield production last year, I don’t see how they can plan on starting him out there. I don’t know where else he fits. He’s also got no obvious trade value (which kind of goes back to my original point – why did Lackey produce only him and Kelly?). Maybe it does turn out to be a mechanical issue and he resolves it. But, this literally might be it for him if it doesn’t get fixed right away. There’s just no room on rosters for slow, average fielders that can’t hit a lot. Here’s hoping…
Trading a 36 year old pitcher for a reliable 5th starter (Kelly) and a potential 7 hittter (Craig) was a steal in my opinion. Lackey is a very volatile personality who I think was starting to pollute the Sox clubhouse. This has the potential to be a very good trade for the Red Sox
Saying his OBP wasn’t good with Boston, makes it seem like Boston had no idea who he was when they traded lester.
Good point.
Chris Sale for any 10 Red Sox that Rick Hahn wants might work.
I think this from the Article should suffice:
“Cafardo says he got “a minute of straight laughter” when he asked if the White Sox might trade Chris Sale.”
I think same applies for Quintana as well.
Chris Sale for any 15 Red Sox of Rick Hahn wants might work.
Samardzija pitched in a weak division in Chicago and then a spacious park in Oakland. His stats are deceiving.
Or maybe he just got better. He pitched in a weak division last year and the year before but his results weren’t that great. Maybe he just figured things out and is now realiIng his potential.
he actually pitched in a pretty tough division usually with a sub-par bullpen and little to no run support. The only career stats about Shark that are misleading are his wins and his ERA… but both of those aren’t based entirely on his performance anyway.
The only thing that makes me wary about Samardzija is his consistency issues and his inflated self-worth.
Cespedes, Betts, JBJ, Victorino, Nava, Craig, Castillo, Holt… I count EIGHT outfielders.
Either Cespedes or JBJ to Tigers makes sense. Cespedes would be a good fit for Comerica’s LF which has 2X the square footage as Fenway. His laser throws would work well in that huge park, even in left.
JBJ would fit in CF which is enormous as well. However, there are many players that are plus defenders, that never are successful in MLB because they cannot hit.
What would it cost to get both of them?
It’s hard to evaluate just because the Tigers don’t have much to give to tempt the Red Sox. Like I said, a straight up deal of JBJ for Castellanos is about fair, probably needing to include a Rule 5 guy on the Red Sox end. As for getting both of them, I can’t see it happening, the Tigers just don’t have enough to offer up, or would want to give up. If you’d want both Cespedes however, I could see the Sox being interested in Rick Porcello. The Sox could include some other guys on that front to get him, maybe Matt Barnes, Cespedes, and JBJ for Porcello and Castellanos? Still don’t think the Tigers would trade Porcello though.
That only works in your video game. Bradley was just awful. While Castellanos had bad defense, he at least proved he could hit well. Bradley looks like a 4th outfielder, Castellanos looks like someone who needs a position.
I suppose so, but that means Castellanos’ greatest value is as a DH, which many teams aren’t looking for. And his defence wasn’t bad, it was awful. While he might be able to be OK in a corner OF spot, I have a hard time believing he still won’t be a defensive liability. JBJ provided more value than Castellanos in 2014, albeit because of Castellanos’ awful defence, and while Castellanos has the better trade value of the two, it isn’t by as big of a margin as you think. Matter of fact, I think it is very slim.
Castellanos is only 22. He played 3rd in the minors, then moved to LF (when Fielder was signed), then moved back to 3rd (after Fielder was traded)
It is logical that he just could not handle defense while still trying to hit MLB pitching in 2014.
JBJ has not proven he can hit. That is a much bigger hurdle than simply finding a spot for Castellanos to play (LF or 1st, if not 3rd).
exactly. Someone that can hit is going to have an easier time finding a job than someone like Bradley. He had a uzr/150 in cf over 20 and he still had negative war.
Yeah but -2.7 dWAR?
But Castellanos didn’t prove he could hit. He proved he could hit better than Bradley like 99% of the majors, but he had a 94 wRC+. He was a below average hitter who couldn’t field his position.
He is also 2 years younger than Bradley. I’m way way down on JBJ. Castellanos may not have lit the world on fire, but JBJ was just awful.
They were of similar value to their respective teams. You can be as down as you like on JBJ, but that doesn’t mean he won’t shorten his swing and succeed next season. And that doesn’t mean gold glove defense doesn’t have value. If he hits .250 he can be a very valuable player. He has hit at every level he has been at. Castellanos being younger is fine, but it doesn’t mean he’ll improve his hitting or his defense. There’s no reason to be high on either of them right now. Neither has proven they can succeed at the ML level.
Castellanos > JBJ, because a hitter who cannot field has value. A fielder who cannot hit does not have value. Also, Castellanos is younger than JBJ.
Porcello and Castellanos for Cespedes and JBJ would be fair… but neither side would not make that deal.
Agreed, but like you said, Castellanos > JBJ, so the Red Sox would need to include more. Matt Barnes and maybe a lottery ticket would seem more fair. Still, I doubt a deal is going to be made. The Red Sox are better off holding on to JBJ to try to increase his trade value, while the Tigers are better off holding on to Castellanos to prove he can become an even better hitter and improve his defence.
Both JBJ and Castellanos have the same value. Neither has proven an ability to hit at the ML level. Castellanos had a -0.5 fWAR last season, whereas Bradley had a -0.1. Neither are average ballplayers yet. You cannot assume Castellanos will improve while not giving the same benefit of the doubt to Bradley. Right now Castellanos is a below average hitter who cannot field his position. At least Bradly has a proven ability to play defense. It’s not a my guy is better because he comes from my team and he was a top prospect last year situation. Both were highly rated in their organizations and neither has lived up to the hype yet, but there’s no reason to assume Castellanos will improve and Bradley will not.
Bradley is not bad, at the right price, to solve the Tiger’s CF opening. But they have developed so few minor leaguers, I can’t see them giving up on Castellanos yet. How about Eugenio Suarez to Oakland for Craig Gentry? I think Gentry has 2 yrs before FA, and Oakland gets 5 years of SS/2B.
I really don’t see the Red Sox trading Bradley anyway. Unless they’ve given up on him, then move him so he doesn’t take time from anyone else. If they think this is all he will be then deal him for whatever you can get. There will also be two outfield openings next season so he could spend the year in AAA and earn a spot next year. Honestly if I were the Tigers I’d be looking for a bit more pop out of my centerfielder. Particularly if they don’t/can’t resign VMart. Sign Colby Rasmus maybe?
Yeah, I’m fairly sure he’s in Pawtucket to start the year. His current value and potential are too far apart to move him right now.
Castellanos is almost 2 full years younger than JBJ.
He should have been in AAA all year to re-learn 3rd base, yet was the still the 2nd best rookie batter in the AL (if you consider Abreu a “rookie”).
Errr, no. Castellanos was the 27th best Rookie hitter in the AL last year. Two spots behind, you guessed it, Jackie Bradley. Even if you want to completely ignore defense and look solely at hitting, he was 12th best.
The Red Sox traded pitching for hitting, now they want to trade hitting for pitching.
A fantasy league team.
The mariners need to be the cespedes trade talks
Giants deal lincecum and brown for cespedes? I’m dreaming!
Marrero’s gotta be the second or third piece to a trade. A’s would be just as well off using Ladendorf and Parrino at the start of the year since Marrero overall isn’t much more than them as a platoon. Heck, if the A’s were going to go after someone like Marrero then they should bring back Cliff Pennington, he’d be cheaper talent-wise and just for one year
Whether Red Sox fans like it or not, the Red Sox will have to give up one of their top prospects (including controllable pieces that lost their rookie status) since Beane still wants to contend this year. If the Red Sox aren’t comfortable giving up top talent then they’ll have to go the FA route
A trade isn’t going to happen unless BB thinks he’s getting as much as he can get. Marrero is an okay piece but he can’t be the headliner.
Like Snoochies said, no matter what Red Sox fans say, highly regarded prospect(s) + more will have to come the A’s way in the deal, whether that’s now or at the trade deadline is unclear.
when have the A’s traded a vet for marginal returns? we get fleeced in prospect for vet deals not the other way around.
You got fleeced in the Samardzija deal, and now you’re expecting to get you ‘money’ back.
samardzija and jaso for marreo holt Bradley jr and owens
Shark and Jaso for Holt/JBJ and Owens sounds like a more fair trade, Owens is a Russell type prospect