11:44am: Agent Jamie Murphy tells ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick that he “feel[s] like Dan [Duquette] does,” explaining that “there is still a lot of work to be done if we are going to reach a deal.” (Twitter links.) Though Murphy said both sides hope to work out a deal, he will continue to engage with other clubs in the meantime.
9:55am:Â Talks picked back up yesterday between the Orioles and free agent Nick Markakis, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com, and there is renewed optimism that a four-year pact can be reached. The sides are discussing a deal that would pay Markakis between $10MM and $12MM a year, tweets Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports, who says it “should get done.”
The Orioles’ negotiations with the long-time Baltimore fixture had reportedly stalled, leaving Markakis prepared to test the open market at the GM Meetings. As Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun reported, the sides had been nearing a deal along the lines of what Passan suggests (four years, $10MM-$12MM) before the brakes were pumped.
MLBTR’s Steve Adams predicted a four-year, $48MM pact for the 31-year-old outfielder. As Adams explained, one’s view of Markakis’s defensive value goes a long way towards assessing his value. Though defensive metrics have generally pegged him as either a slightly above or slightly below average right fielder, there is a strong undercurrent of support for the idea that teams view him as a plus defender.
You know, I want Carlos Gonzalez.
Let Markakis go somewhere else.
This team does need to make some changes to get to the next level in my opinion.
Not wholesale changes, but nonetheless changes.
I am not really interested in giving 4yrs/48 Million for nostalgia sake.
Sounds like there will be deferred money… so paying him in future dollars does not hurt as bad.
So are you willing to give up Gausman and Harvey for the right to pay CarGo upwards of $20MM to be on the disabled list? I’m not. He’s a negative WAR defender and his career OPS outside of Colorado is .750.
My fantasy team does not approve of this scenario. (I own Gausman and Harvey)
If trading for a corner outfielder target J-UP or Hayward. Gonzalez with his injury history and defense along with the mega dollars he is owed scares the heck out of me
That’s why you negotiate.
Anyway, we will know soon enough about what will happen.
However, I would consider CarGo though, I think he would be fine at OPACY!
I’m not knocking Cargo–obviously a lot of talent there–but it’s a waste of time to dream about the Orioles trading for him. Nick is still more than serviceable (not “nostalgia”) and Gonzalez is way too expensive, both in what he’d cost in players traded and in salary. Just can’t see that happening.
Pipe dream.
I agree it doesn’t make sense & the O’s aren’t going to go for such nonsense.
I do have a quarrel with the metrics that call Nick & Cargo, both multiple Gold Glove winners, below average defenders. As much as I see value in metrics and a bigger role for them in the future, they clearly don’t have all the bugs ironed out in every regard and need to be fixed where needed.
As much as I’ve seen Markakis play right flawlessly, field balls out of the corner with an uncanny sense of the right angle to watch for and with a cannon of an arm that few runners are willing to test, I am absolutely unwilling to discuss with anyone who wants to trot out the absurd line that he can’t play out there. To all those folks I say, Get a new hobby or a new set of glasses.
The eyeball test only works with people who use common sense, not strictly stats, to come to conclusions.
The eyeball test: You mean what people who “don’t know what they’re talking about”, like Buck, use? : )
Of course some stats are telling, like Nick not having made a single error since August 2012 and only five total since 2010. That’s pretty exceptional.
Manny Ramirez didn’t make many errors in Fenway, but he also had about 30sq ft to cover. If while jogging to a ball it landed in front of him, it was a hit, not an error.
What I’m getting at is even if some stats say Markakis isn’t a good OF, watching him play RF tells another story. He’s not only a good fit for Baltimore, he’s better than some of his stats suggest. Likewise, Manny and now Cespedes (the Gold Glove nominee), are worse defenders than their stats suggest.
Why should Markakis have a lot of errors? He isn’t in as good a position to make as many plays as he should be thanks to his lack of range. Errors only punish players that can get in position.
But what if you led the league in put outs at your position and still made no errors?
Why are you so fixated with put outs? Show me a guy that plays basically every game, and has a heavy fly ball pitching staff, and I’ll show you a guy that is going to have a ton of put outs.
The fact that Markakis has no errors is good. He has an amazing glove, always has. He also has a very good arm. That’s about it, but those two things are subservient to range. Range is something Markakis does not have, and i’d gladly take more errors if it meant he could cover more ground. It’s obvious watching him in the field, which is why the O’s have to shift him so far into the gap. They don’t have him on Adam Jones’ hip all game because the two just really like each other. And the stats back that up as well. The metrics weren’t created to trash Markakis. They are an objective analysis of what people are subjectively seeing.
Errors aren’t a huge deal for outfielders, its about his routes, him cutting the ball off. His defensive numbers aren’t very good if you take into account everything. Hes below-average.
I watch just about every O’s game, and Nick looks BAD out there. He struggles to get to balls, and doesn’t get to a lot of them that he should. I don’t need the metrics to tell me that, although the metrics do tell me that. He also has to cheat towards the gap and hope the foul line bails him out, because he struggles to cover ground. If you aren’t “seeing” that, I don’t know what to tell you, except if only there was some objective stats that could tell us which one of our “eyes’ are correct. Hmmm…
Inconveniently, he doesn’t make errors and he’s near the top every year in put outs by RF’ers. In fact, he was first in PO’s again in 2014………… but he never gets to any balls?
So, you rely on a stat (or is that your opinion) that supposes how many balls “he should have gotten to”?
Nothing subjective there.
I guess you could always say that because he plays so many innings he gets more chances …………… oh no, range factor. Still pretty good.
baseball-reference.com/players/m/markani01.shtml
Put outs is a pretty objective stat.
How objective is “balls he should have gotten to”?
Put outs are perhaps objective, but no longer viewed as that helpful in determining the defensive value of a player, because it is determined by the balls you were able to get to.
Forget CarGo! The guy has been a full-timer since 2010 and hasn’t played more than 135 games but once. If you trade for him you had better have an excellent 4th OF because he’ll have to become a starter for at least one, if not two, stretches during the season when CarGo hits the DL.
All an O’s fans can hope is that another team rides in and saves the day.
Jim Johnson blows another save.
That $10-12M per year figure has me on the fence. Markakis is beloved by fans, but I have to question whether his production will be worth that. On the other hand it would be sad to see Nick in another uniform…
I guess I’ll be OK with it whichever way it turns out. It ain’t my money after all…
I really want the O’s to resign Markakis. He seems to have value to the org beyond the numbers he puts up every year, which are solid (if unspectacular). He’s incredibly durable, a well-liked team leader, and an above-average defensive right fielder who can hit for average and draws walks.
$10-$12M is really not too far out of the ballpark for a player like that. Plus, I really don’t want to see him go to the Cardinals.
If the Cardinals are going to make a commitment to RF, it has to add power to the line-up. Markakis doesn’t fix the Cardinals biggest problem, I don’t have interest in giving him a $40MM+ deal.
He’s a below average defender.
He doesn’t look like a below-average defender. Neither does Adam Jones, but UZR ranks them both unfavorably. I’ll take them both in my outfield.
He “looks” pretty bad out there. I look forward to the day when the O’s have a RF they don’t have to shift so far towards the gap because he can’t cover any ground.
Why does the Orioles shifting Markakis toward the gap indicate it’s because he “can’t cover any ground”? Couldn’t it be based on batters’ tendencies and just a smart play by the Orioles coaches?
No, it couldn’t be. You don’t play Markakis so far towards the gap every play because every batter has a tendency to hit the ball in the gap. You do it to hide his lack of range, thereby allowing him to cover more fair ground.
Ok, Jim. You’re right. He stinks.
I might be wrong and he might be the greatest player of all time. But claiming that he plays so far to the gap due to the batters, and not his defensive limitations, just isn’t a very good argument. It’s a very “head in sand” argument.
I don’t think he’s the best of all time, but he appears to be good enough. Maybe my head’s in the sand. Seems to me that most right handed batters are going to hit the ball to the left side of the field more often than the slice a ball down the line, so it makes sense to me that he’d play off the line the majority of the time. But I don’t have the data in front of me on where Nick plays vs every batter, in every game, and where other RF’s would play in the same situation. I’m just going with what I see for the most part, and that’s Nick not making boneheaded plays, and occasionally making spectacular plays, and making all of the routine plays. He looks to me like a decent RF.
I also don’t think the O’s would be going after him like they are if they thought he was a defensive liability, which you’re argument claims that they must.
Why? Teams go after defensive liabilities all the time.
I think the O’s value defense more than most.
That might be true, but the last FA signings they have made have been for D. Young and Cruz, both horrible defenders. The last few deadline deals they have made have included De Aza and Morse, both below average to bad defenders. Kelly Johnson at BEST is about average. Hundley has never been much of a defensive catcher. There are very few acquisitions the O’s have made over the last few years that were defensive oriented. Probably Lough was the only one I can think of. This is the same organization that went with Brian Roberts over Flaherty.
And assuming for sake of argument the O’s do see something to Markakis’ defense that other people aren’t seeing, I’m not sure the O’s valuing one way or another should be the be all to end all. I mean, the O’s valued Ubaldo more than the rest of the league did last year, and we see how far that got them. At some point the consensus scouting reports and metrics should count for something. It can’t all be an appeal to authority, otherwise, there can be no reasonable discussion.
All those guys you mentioned as recent acquisitions being poor defenders were signed to short term deals and their role wasn’t as an everyday position player. I’m assuming that they want him to be their RF for the next 4 years, because he doesn’t really have another position to play. Maybe LF? Also, is the scouting consensus that he’s a below avg RF?
according to fangraphs every right fielder is terrible except heyward…..derp
fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=rf&stats=fld&#…
You’re overstating how “beloved” he is by the fans. It’s mostly Buck and Palmer and Thorne that are in love with him. Most of the fans coming to the Yard today don’t even know that Markakis was once a highly productive player, because they were watching the Ravens back then.
I dunno… I was at every home game this past year and interact with lots of O’s fans. I’m sticking with my generalization. Spontaneous Nick Mar-ka-kis cheers during the playoffs…
I was at 3 of 4 playoff games this year. Only time I heard a Markakis cheer was Game 1 against the Tigers. But Markakis was just one of many playoff cheers. It’s not like there is an O’Day cheer, or a JJ Hardy, or a Cruz, that continues throughout the regular season, which would be a better indicator of fan favorite.
They have one of those on again, off again relationships
The O’s should have made a Qualifying Offer.
This whole song and dance is going on for too long.
I think Nick wants to leave and the O’s should have at least gotten something out of it.
What if he signed it? You don’t want him for 10-12M per year…
One year at 15 million would have been better for the O’s then having him at 12 million a year for the next 4.
That’s what I was thinking. If we are going to pay 12mil a year anyway, why not offer him a QO. I’m sure he would have declined it and we would have more bargaining power right now.
In that case they should have just picked up the option. QO+the buy out of the option was only 200K less than Markakis’ option for 2015.
Was he eligible for a QO but didn’t get extended one?
I think, technically, anyone that spent all of the previous year with one team is “eligible” to receive a QO.
Actually not all players. For example Cespedes will be ineligible for a QO next year due to a clause in his contract that requires him to be non-tendered following the 2015 season.
Ok, so basically all FA’s? Unless they have some weird clause like that?
It seems it’s more performance based. If you look at all the lower tern free agents, they weren’t eligible to receive QO’s. Like Richie Weeks, Sergio Romo, etc
But were those guys not eligible to receive a QO? Or did they just not receive one? It only makes sense for a team to extend a QO to a guy if:
1. They’re willing to pay him about 14M for next year, or
2. They expect he’ll decline because he will want a bigger/longer term deal in FA.
Whether or not a team chooses to extend a QO is definitely performance based, but eligibility to receive a QO is not, as far as I know.
Not everyone is eligible for to receive QO.
Are you saying that Weeks and Romo were ineligible to receive a QO? If so, why were they ineligible?
As best I can tell, if you’re a FA to be, and if you have 6 years of ML service time, and you spent the entire current year with the same club, you are eligible to receive a QO (unless you have some weird clause in your contract that prohibits it, like the rallymonkey above said). That doesn’t mean that it makes sense for teams to extend QO’s to all players who are eligible for them.
He was, they just didn’t want to give him one.
Little power
Little/No Speed
Ok Average.
Ok Defense.
He’s basically there because he’s a fan favorite.
Don’t ask for too much Nick.