The Rockies have told other teams that they are willing to consider trade scenarios involving their two best players, Troy Tulowitzki and Carlos Gonzalez, according to a report from Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports.
While the likelihood of a deal remains rather slight, and neither player is being shopped around, the report does indicate that Colorado is much more open to moving one of its stars than it had been previously. Notably, Rosenthal says that the Rockies are telling clubs that they will not accept a return that does not provide fair value for the healthy production levels of both players.
Needless to say, there is a large gap between a theoretical willingness to trade a player and a realistic chance of a deal getting done. In this case, that divide may be wider than usual. While Tulowitzki is arguably the very best shortstop in baseball, he has missed long stretches of time in recent years with hip, groin, and wrist surgeries, along with various other maladies. And he is due $20MM per year from 2015-2019, plus $14MM in 2020 and a $4MM buyout in 2021.
Much the same story holds for Gonzalez, who has had five-win seasons but had both knee and finger surgery last year. Then there is the fact that he put up just a .238/.292/.431 batting line when he was in the lineup last year, a fall-off that can in large part be pinned on his health issues but which nevertheless must be considered. Gonzalez is owed $53MM over the next three seasons, a steal if he’s healthy but a big problem if he is not.
Go Cashman, Go!
Rockies will likely want young talent in return.. sorry to be the bearer of bad news
Aaron Judge and Ian Clarkin for starters
a trade that includes betances and gray sanchez would be hard to reject
Yes, a reliever and a catcher who’s been average offensively in AA should get the best shortstop in the game. I totally agree.
“Best SS in the game”?? Yea, maybe when he s playing at Coor s Field.. His road stats are barely above league average.. And, you’ll only get about 80 games from this guy..
An .818 OPS (Away career) is barely above league average?
It s not $20+ mil per yr for 5 more years either.. Considering he s already 30 and injury prone, that OPS is more than likely to drop even more… COL can keep him..
Oh I’m not saying do the trade (if even possible) but he’s not a “barely above average hitter away”. He’s the best SS in the game when he plays, but unfortunately, him playing is not very common. I mean it’s sad enough that over the past 5 years, Derek Jeter from ages 36-40 played 80 more games at SS than Tulo (again, at SS, not Total).
We can agree on that..
Still provided 5WAR last year and even with adjusted stats his OPS+ has been very good for his career. He’s still good defensively and honestly who’s better than him?
What was his WAR on the road (I really don’t care, because WAR is a bogus stat).. Didn’t day he was bad.. He s much better at Coors.. He s not worth trading your best prospects, and at $20+ mil., I m not sure a 5 WAR justifies it..
People who say WAR is a bogus stat don’t understand it. Going to Yankee Stadium and or another AL East team wouldn’t kill his power numbers so I don’t see the real point in arguing it. A shortstop who can hit .280+ and hit 25-30 homers is pretty valuable.
My main problem with WAR is that a lot of a player WAR is derived from his defense.. And since the Sabermetric community hasn’t figured out a way to factor in the “shift” when calculating a players ability to play defense.. ie, some teams use the shift more often, some use it differently, example:: some teams leave the SS on on the left side of the infield, some teams use the SS as a 2B, and some efn use him as a short fielder.. When a SS s range factor is enhanced by fielding GB out in RF, then something is askew.. Left field and left center would very much affect Tulo s ability to hit HRs at Yankee Stadium as opposed to Coors.. Not sure what games you ve been watching??
Gary Sanchez, Dellin Betances and Aaron Judge probably does get rejected immediately. Colorado probably wants a king’s ransom for Tulowitzki, a package I’d imagine would be centered around like Seager, Urias and Pederson if they were dealing with LA, or prospects of that caliber. Minnesota would have the prospects, Boston would, and I’d wager Seattle would, but I can’t think of too many others (I’m also tired, so I might be missing an obvious one or two)
A king’s ransom can only go so far with that contract.
And Colorado doesn’t need to deal him. So offer a king’s ransom or don’t get him.. it’s like a version of the Hamels/RAJ situation except Tulowitzki is actually legitimately on a bargain contract for his production.
True and money is not really an issue for the Rox with a full stadium nearly nightly (despite an on-field product that isn’t always appealing) and a regional TV deal.
His contract isn’t bad, he has been worth every bit of it and more. It might be somewhat hard for the Rockies with his salary however, he has been the best shortstop the last half decade, he deserves the money he gets.
The LAD’s or Mets would have to be the two teams that match up with need and prospects for Tulo for certain. Don’t count out the Yankees or StL getting creative to get him though.
besides Betances, and a slightly overrated Sanchez, who the hell are the Yankees offering?
That is why I said get creative. I have no clue but from history we can tell that the Yankees will not sit on their hands when it comes to getting the players they want.
Yes. By buying them all with their limitless pockets.
Thankfully the Qualifying Offers system is starting to work out, and teams are locking up their young talent through their prime.
That’s why the Yankees are overpaying for old talent, and their system of buying every free agent isn’t as fool proof anymore.
How about the team you’re a fan of?
I didn’t think Colorado would be interested in Flores/Herrera/Smith/Nimmo/Montero and I wasn’t sure if a combination of Conforto/Syndergaard/Matz/Plawecki would get it done. The Mets have some interesting prospects, but they’d have to punt a lot of their prospects to get Tulowitzki since I’m not sure we have a headliner like a Buxton, Pederson/Urias, or even a Walker or Betts.
I don’t think they can trade Conforto anyway. I think a deal including Syndergaard, Tapia, Matz, Flores and maybe somebody like Gee or Niese may get it done. I would rather acquire Altuve though!
They can include Conforto as an agreed-upon PTBNL, I think.
Oh ah okay. Nice loophole haha. Wouldn’t trade him anyway though
Why would the Dodgers give up a package for an offensive juggernaut yet injury riddled shortstop? They already have one.
Colour it rejected.
Not really
That a way too much.. Ian Clarkin is a top young LHPing prospect and A Judge-RF is a 6-7, 230 lb BEAST!!!! It s amazing how little these so called baseball fans actually know about the Yankees..
We’ll see, but I could also say that Judge is 22 and has yet to play Double-A ball. He also struck out 131 times in 131 games, so we’ll see how he does with a real test in AA this year.
Why would you give up Judge when we need hitting?
Yankee’s got enough there to make a big trade if they wanted to. Its not a fantastic system, but they got more than enough.
tex, arod, beltran, and sabathia should be plenty.
Done! 😉
There aren’t a lot of teams that might take on those contracts and/or give up top prospects.
Just shows you have no idea the Yankees actually have a solid farm system.
Sanchez, Severino, Judge, Jagielo, Refsnyder, Clarkin, Bird, Pirela, Mateo, etc.
The Yankees farm is middling at best.. I would rank it in the low 20’s
Most prospect outlets rank them closer to 10-15 if I remember correctly.
Source? I have seen them ranked as high as 17…and I thought that was a stretch
I can’t find a source, so I will say I stand corrected. I may’ve been thinking about the 2013 rankings of systems.
Fair enough.. Because I will admit they have decent depth in B and C prospects, but they lack a big ticket prospect to get their foot in the door.
They were around 16-17 in 2013, and they’ve gotten considerably better performance from their prospects, as well as a few breakout names, so they’re only moving up in the rankings. 10-15 seems right.
Really? I cannot find a list that has them above 17, and I think that is stretching it. They have good depth with no elite prospects
And of those not located in or near New York, what?
Seriously. Clarkin, Sanchez, Judge, Bird, Betances, Refsnyder,Severino, Lindgren. Let’s not pretend they don’t have a shot at a good package for either just because of pure hatred.
I don’t disagree that they can make an enticing package. But they don’t have a high upside center piece like other potential suitors
They do have some intriguing prospects but they’re still a few years out. Not a lot of quality close to the bigs. Plus factor in the NY media hype and you’re left about mid-pack.
Mid pack > Bottom pack. And may I remind you that the A’s got Lester and Shark last year and their farm system was ranked 27th going into the season (and they lost their best prospect so I expect it to drop)
The Tigers got 1.5 years of David Price, and their farm was ranked 29th
And who can forget the Dodgers/Red Sox blockbuster a few years ago where the Dodgers got A-Gon, Crawford and Beckett. Their farm system ranking that year? 22nd.
To say the Yankees have no chance to get Tulo is 100% inaccurate. But I can certainly agree that as far as offering the best package, they can’t do that.
I’d say Mateo, Sanchez, Judge, Clarkin, Betances is the type of package NYY would have to offer. A catcher to replace Rosario, a power arm, two upside specs, and a future shortstop.
Sounds accurate.
Yankee fans are the only ones who actually believe NY has a good farm system. Any team can rattle off 10-12 names, doesn’t mean they’re good prospects
On the contrary, Yankee haters are the only ones who say the Yankees have a terrible farm system. Goes both ways.
True, if you don’t count the opinions of respected analysts who get paid to doing scouting reports etc
The ones that usually rank it from 15-20 this past offseason, which means, if you do the math there are 10-15 teams who have worse farm systems……but….according to the haters as always, basically any team can trade for them except the Yankees.
And this doesn’t include any of the IFA guys who will likely play their way onto a few lists.
Correct. Nelson Gomez, Dermis Garcia, Miguel Flames.
(And I missed Jacob Lindgren)*
I’m also betting that Austin plays his way back into the spotlight as well. He’s finally healthy and finished really strong last year.
Yankees farm isnt even the best in the division. It’s better than its been in years, but that’s not the same as saying it’s brimming with depth and high end impact prospects.
The entrance fee just to be in the conversation means you must have a couple Top 50 prospects in the mix for Tulowitzski or Cargo.
“The entrance fee just to be in the conversation means you must have a
couple Top 50 prospects in the mix for Tulowitzski or Cargo.”
Perhaps but can you name me a recent example of a player being traded for 2 top 50 prospects? Just wondering.
Firstly, the Yankees have a bunch of young talent. Secondly, any deal for Tulo would cost too much and wouldn’t be worth it. He’s never healthy for more than a few months at a time, and Colorado wants value in a trade equal to his HEALTHY production value.
That’s like saying you want to trade Tex but for his value in 2009.
I thought the same thing. If I were a GM, I wouldn’t want to even try to trade with a team that won’t admit that their product is often damaged.
Tulowitzki has five 5-win seasons in recent memory. Even missing significant time in several recent seasons, Tulowitzki is still providing equivalent or better value to his contract. If Tulowitzki were actually healthy we’d be talking about the best player in the National League and offers would start way out of the Yankees’ league. Clarkin/Judge/Betances/Sanchez/Mateo+ wouldn’t even be enough to get Colorado on the phone if they were demanding a trade equal to healthy-Tulo.
If Tulo were healthy, his contract would be very reasonable and the Rockies would not even listen to a trade offer.
That’s true, he’s gotta be the best non-Trout player when healthy.
Lots of teams will have more talent than what the yankees can offer. The mets comes to mind for example. I could also see the Dodgers swinging a deal for Tulo if they don’t mind dealing within the division.
No, Cashman, NO!!!!! The Rockies want full value for the “healthy value” of either player and rarely are they healthy. If Tulo were the final piece of the puzzle, that would be one thing. But the Yankees have a starting rotation full of question marks (CC–degenerative condition in knee and was already showing signs of decline, Ivan Nova–probably won’t be back from TJ surgery before the All Star break. Tanaka–injury concerns about his throwing elbow, Pineda–can’t seem to stay healthy), they need to find another infielder (and yes, that’s including a scenario where they acquire Tulo) who can play third or second and they could use David Robertson back and preferably Andrew Miller. They gotta do all this and they only have $20 something million to spend. They flat out can NOT afford Tulo.
They don’t want full value for healthy Tulowitzki, and the Yankees don’t have what it takes for full value of healthy Tulowitzki anyway.
Almost nobody has what it takes for full value Tulo.
“Rosenthal says that the Rockies are telling clubs that they will not accept a return that does not provide fair value for the healthy production levels of both players.”
Well, scratch that. I doubt anyone is getting Tulowitzki then, lol. Thanks! I hadn’t seen that. I see now it’s either been added to the article since I originally read it. Either that, or I’m blind.
Just what the Yankees need – more 30 year old, perennially injured players!
*IF* both of these two were consistently healthy I’d be willing to give up anything to get them. They are spectacular players. But they’re not healthy. They’re *NEVER* fully healthy and the Rockies have set the price tag as if they were.
Young talent is the most valuable currency in a GMs wallet. I hope Cashman is smart enough to see that spending it on KNOWN injury risks is not worth the price.
Obviously if the Rockies are asking for a return as if Tulo was healthy all the time then I wouldn’t do it. But the Yankees definitely have the pieces to do so IF the price is right. They can take on all that salary (which if he was on the open market he would gotten WAY more than what he is making). I don’t think age is relevant, the Yankees or any team for that matter should look to sign GOOD players not necessarily young players. When healthy Tulo is a top 5 player in baseball. Even if you have 120 games of Tulo and 40 of Brandon Ryand it’s still a top 3 SS for the year in baseball. I wouldn’t give up the farm to land Tulo but the Yankees are always in a position to eat up the salary and gamble on someone with Tulo’s talent. The biggest problem with the Yankees last year was (aside from the injuries) that they didn’t have a true middle of the order bat to anchor the lineup. McCann, Beltran, Teix they are all great complementary players but they are non of them are “the guy”. Cano was the guy for the last 5 years and it helped take the pressure off the rest of the lineup. I understand the injury concerns but gambling on that sort of talent is a no brainer for me anyway.
Tulo to the mets for Syndergaard, Plackei, Smith and Gee Rockies throw 25 million in and Corey Dickerson
Rockies would never do that. 25 mill PLUS Dickerson?? Haha.
Annnnnnd the Rockies GM is laughing hysterically
Syndergaard, Plawecki, Gee would be the starting point. You’d probably also have to add one of Flores/Herrera, and on top of that add in another pitching prospect and an outfield prospect, like Nimmo and Matz, and even that might not be enough. Tulowitzki isn’t going to be had for fair value, and having Colorado throw in Dickerson + 25 MM would mean they need a real king’s ransom and an outfield prospect to replace Dickerson long-term.
Yes, Tulo would be more expensive to acquire than he is worth. When healthy, he is at or near MVP level. But he is very frequently injured, and facing a point in his career where injuries tend to become more common. And his contract is very expensive.
I wouldn’t go any higher than Syndergaard, Plawecki, Flores, and Gee. If the Rockies find that insufficient, no trade. I actually think that there is a fair likelihood that more WAR from 2015-2020 would go to the Rockies in that deal.
Pass.
Here come the Yankee fans!!! Sorry to break it to you but they have no shot because you have no farm system
No thank you. Both of those guys get hurt too much for me to want them.
I’ve been told by Yankee fans that Gary Sanchez is going to be the next Thurman Munson.
of course they said that! Lolololol
Nah that was JP Arencibia.
Lets all hear the fantastic talent Toronto has developed over the years! Russ Adams, Dustin McGowen, Curtis Thigpen..what a bunch of studs
That Roy Holladay fellow wasn’t any good.
And that was….years ago
So was Jeter, Posada, Pettitte and Williams…
Gardner, Hughes, Kennedy, Jackson and Cano weren’t, though.
Neither was DRob or Betances or Adam Warren
I don’t think Warren belongs with those others, and Betances was supposed to be a starter, but I’ll still give them credit for that pair. Seven successful graduates in the last decade is better than Toronto has gotten, although Toronto has traded prospects and other pieces for guys like Rasmus, Lawrie, Reyes, Buehrle, JJ, Dickey and others, so that’s not completely fair, I guess. They also dealt away Syndergaard, and have now graduated Stroman.
I was just naming some, Warren was pretty dang effective in the 1st half but slowed down a bit due to fatigue, made adjustments and finished strong
You are right, Warren was not good for the bulk in the middle. I still flinch a little when I hear his name. Maybe it isn’t time to declare him a a success quite yet. We’ll see how it goes next year.
Hughes was chased from the organization by fans. No way he’d have any success in New York. In that case Chris Carpenter should be up there with Roy Holladay’s claim to fame in Toronto.
Same thing with Kennedy I guess.
Chris Carpenter can be attributed to the Toronto farm system, obviously. Hughes also did have successful years as a Yankee. I would definitely give Carpenter to Toronto’s farm. He certainly was never in St. Louis’ farms system and *some* farm system had to develop him……
Hughes and Kennedy flourished OUTSIDE of New York, so I’m not sure you can count them.
If the point he was trying to make was that the Yankees can develop major league talent then yes, he can count them.
How is Rivera not in this list?
He likely just forgot and listed only four since everyone refers to them as Core Four, even though Bernie was a huge part. Anyway, yeah, Rivera is on there.
Well, I’m glad he included Bernie. Bernie gets shafted a lot because “Core Five” doesn’t rhyme. But really, he was as much a part of those late 90s championship teams as any body and really, if you want to be technical, if you’re going to hold not being a part of the 2009 team against Bernie, you should do the same to Posada because all he was on that ’96 team was a September call-up who didn’t make the post season roster.
Ahh 1998, those were great times.
Better times, for just about everybody. We were ignorant of PEDs in the game, Americans had money, gas was about, what, $1.20-$1.40 per gallon, America actually wasn’t fighting any major wars around the world. Too good to last, I guess.
Ironically enough, one of Torontos best hitters was a Yankee farm hand
Aaron Hill? Adam Lind? Brett Cecil? At least choose three actually solid big-leaguers if you’re gonna diss Toronto.
Hill is fine, Lind is a platoon hitter and Cecil is decent, nothing mindblowing
Lind has a 35-homer campaign on his resume, and all three are far more successful than the trio you named. Regardless, they traded Hechavarria, Marisnick, I think Nicolino, Alvarez, d’Arnaud (I know. He was PHI) and Thor for current big-league pieces..
Of course they are better than the trio I named, my point was he took a jab at the Yankees farm system when recently the Yankees produced more major league talent than the Blue Jays
The jab was at people you guys hype up to superstar and fall flat on their face, not the fact you guys get a few prospects who come out of nowhere to become successful MLB level talent.
Every fanbase loves to hype their own prospects. I have seen Jays fans claim Sanchez as the next Roy Halladay, in my opinion he does not have the stuff to be a 6+ inning pitcher. Next closer perhaps
Well the difference is your guys hype influences mass media in the U.S to believe it and you guys get top level talent for nobodies. Our hype leads guys like the Cubs wanting Stroman, Sanchez and Hutchinson for Jeff Samardzija. Call it what you want, I am extremely jealous.
The Yankees get bigger, or known names in trades for not very much because they can take a ton of salary
Fine? Isn’t he constantly injured? He had one really good year, how many years ago?
You know he’s had 3 seasons with 5WAR+ right? I know the Jays haven’t been a good team in a long time but you guys really need to look up players before making assumptions that don’t relay to the fact of the matter.
Vernon Wells, Michael Young.
I didn’t want to go back past Russ Adams’ draft, which I think was either the same one as Hill or the one before Hill.
Well early 20 year olds who play in the 2000’s should always be considered prospects.
What? I don’t follow.
Well guys like Roy Halladay debuted in 1998 as 21 year old, he was still technically a prospect when he had his first good season at 24. I should’ve made it more clear.
If I was a Yankee fan I wouldn’t be thrilled at the prospect of the Jays 2016 rotation featuring Marcus Stroman, Drew Hutchinson, Aaron Sanchez, Daniel Norris and Jeff Hoffman.
Buerhle aka the Yankees whipping boy will be in there, unless they find someone to take that contract, same with Dickey. You are claiming rookies will make an immediate impact? don’t count your chickens before they hatch.
His contract is up next season, he’s likely not being resigned. Maybe you should look up stuff before you make statements.
That was my bad, but refer to what I said after the Buerhle and Dickey comment
Who’s talking about an immediate impact? Simply stating that’s a lot of young talent all coming along at the same time, all cost controlled. I thought the O’s had some nice arms coming up but the Jays have out done them with this crop. It’s not a good thing for the AL East come 2016-2019
I thought this year was suppose to be the Jays year? that’s what Mike Wilner claimed in May when the Jays were on cloud 9. Don’t hold your breath, we will see
Mike Wilner hasn’t bad mouthed anything Rogers has done since he bad mouthed Cito Gaston and got suspended. He was actually defending Jays rational of trading Lind for a longman reliever.
Stroman is the most proven of that bunch, so i’m not sure they would be all that worried.
Stroman is a good as any Yankee starter right now and he’s still green behind the ears. That would make me worry if I’m a Yankee fan. I seen Sanchez out of the bullpen this year, he’s filthy, seen Norris as well, ask Big Papi what he thought. Then you get to Hoffman who’s probably the most talented one of the bunch.
Stroman better than Pineda or Tanaka? lets cool the jets, hes barely proven
Ok Tanaka is sweet, Pineda though? LOL Come on
Did you not see Pineda pitch down the stretch when he came back? he was dominant
He didn’t pitch in 2012 or 2013, and had less than 80 innings this year. He’s probably a less well known quantity than most high-level prospects.
Not really, considering he has pitched in the major leagues and has done very well at it. Guys control is scary good. He just needs to stay healthy
Stroman’s stuff is more nasty and certainly doesn’t need pine tar…
Pinetar more than once by the way.
When he is healthy, Pineda > Stroman. But he’s never healthy
Both guys you mentioned have a really good chance of having their arms fall off in the not soon distant future. If Tanaka makes 5 starts next season and is forced to get Tommy John does that really make him valuable?
And I saw Betances out of the pen, Sanchez is still a walk-machine when starting. Hoffman hasn’t even pitched in the minors yet, and you think he’s automatically going to be a major league starter? We all saw how that worked with Appel. Pitching prospects fail about half the time, so no I see no reason to really worry.
Appel has completely turned it around in the AFL, pretty much the best pitcher in the league so far.
What kind of comment is that? You obviously know very little about the Blue Jays or the players they’ve developed. If you actually took a look you’d find a long list of good MLB regulars developed by Toronto. There’s a few more on the way to. Stroman, Sanchez, Pompey and Norris all made their MLB debuts last season and could be regulars as soon as opening day 2015.
They said they signed BMac because he reminded them of Thurman Munson. I think that’s just Yankee-speak for “He’s a good catcher”.
A’s have no farm and they got Shark AND Lester. Tigers have no farm and they got 1.5 years of David Price. The Dodgers had a well below average farm when they got A-Gon, Beckett and Crawford. I’m no saying they will or can get him, but don’t rule it out.
Shark trade got a top 10 prospect, something the Yankees don’t have. Lester and Price trades mainly got established big league talent
Since when does a top 10 prospect needed to be traded to get an all star? That’s news to me.
Anyway, my point still stands. Yankees can get a deal, but they certainly can’t give the best package. We shall see. I hope they avoid him.
Should have done this at least a year ago.
Not a Yankee fan but Aaron Judge and Ian Clarkin most certainly would perk up every and any rebuilding GM’s ears.
Maybe for a lesser player than Tulo…
He said “Perk them up”, not “close the deal”.
Simmons, Sims, Hale, and Bethancourt. DONE.
Braves can’t afford Tulo and Cargo and it’s just not happening with any trade proposals involving the Braves.
You want to trade Andrelton Simmons for Tulowitzki? Why? Isn’t Simmons pretty good and very young?
Because Tulo can hit. Simmons can’t.
Yeah, I get it. I just don’t like it when guys are hurt a lot. And, I get told I overvalue defense all the time, sheesh, my favorite player is Brett Gardner, we will just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I like Brett too but he at least shows patience at the plate and takes BB’s unlike Simmons who had a .287 OBP
I don’t do Andrelton Simmons for Troy Tulowitzki straight up, much less include others. Simmons is good, young, and cost-controlled. He’s also stayed healthy, so far, obviously. Atlanta also can’t afford to tie up that much payroll in one player when they’ve guaranteed so much in extensions going forward.
Anyone who wouldn’t do Tulo for SImmons is insane. Simmons = Jackie Bradley Jr. basically. All glove, Zero bat.
Rockies would probably NEVER do this…..but if the Giants can swing a trade for Gonzalez and have him play left field….that would be a crazy lineup, assuming they can resign Sandoval too.
And yea, its time for the Rockies to start rebuilding again….can probably get some good pitching prospects for Tuolwitzki and Gonzalez….Trying to outscore everyone hasn’t really worked for them lately.
yeah one could dream hahaha. I don’t think i would wanna part with crick and blackburn though.
The Dodgers could prolly put something together for Tulowitzki. If they wanted him.
I was just thinking that. Maybe Tulo for something involving Urias and Crawford?
The Dodgers have some young shortstops coming up that are supposed to be pretty good, so I am not sure they would want him, but it was my first thought.
Yea, there’s some speculation Seager will have to move to third, but that is definitely something to consider.
Exactly. Seager will move to third, but for the dodgers to get Tulo, epsecially within the division, it would probably take something around Pederson/Urias/Lee and a couple other young arms. Dodgers are probably better off just resigning Hanley if they feel they NEED a SS. Similar production (not the same, but close), both have injury history, would be around similar contracts, and wouldn’t have to give up the farm.
I don’t disagree one bit. It wouldn’t surprise me if LA wound up making a flashy grab for Tulo, though.
If the Rockies are rebuilding, they are not going to ask for aging Crawford and his terrible contract.
Not to mention the fact that they already have a glut of talented OF’s
Any Yankee package would have to START with Betances AND Severino and/or Sanchez… no money getting kicked in either… they don’t have enough in prospects to get anything meaningful done. They traded their best power prospect at this past deadline and only got Martin Prado. Think about that… Martin Prado…. their best power prospect brought back Martin Prado.
Because what the Rockies need right now is a setup man/closer. (sarcasm)
Or to say it another way there 8th best prospect brought back Prado.
That prospect that brought back Martin Prado has a comp of Mark Reynolds. That’s his ceiling. Let’s keep this in mind and remember that the Diamondbacks gave up Martin Prado for a CHANCE at a young Mark Reynolds with no position. Not a catcher and has no defense at 1B.
Not to mention they have that Goldschmidt guy playing 1B. I heard he was good.
As the Dodgers continue their march toward Phillie-dom (overpaid ex-stars) a Tulo signing would be a perfect fit!
Except the Dodgers have a competent front office now, unlike the Phillies.
The new management hasn’t won a game in Dodger blue. TBD. Owners like big names and have big say.
Except their new GM and president of baseball operations have both won plenty of games with the Oakland A’s and Tampa Bay Rays, both working under much tighter payrolls.
See previous comment.
So they can’t be said to be competent until the first week of April when the Dodgers win a game?
lol?
The only thing O’brien did well was power. You talking like he has no power, the guy hit 34 home runs in the minors, one of the tops in the minors.
I think trading O’Brien for Prado was a coup on NYY’s part. Prado is a quietly good player and I don’t buy into O’Brien ever becoming a good MLB player, much less anytime soon.
Why would any package start with a bullpen arm?
Dear Rick Hahn,
Get CarGo.
-Sox fans
I could see the 2015 line up now.1. Eaton, cf 2. Ichiro, rf 3. Abreu, 1b 4. CarGo, dh/lf 5. Garcia lf/dh 6. Gillaspie, 3b 7. Ramirez, ss 8. Castro, c 9. Johnson 2b. I love it.
Who do the White Sox have to trade? Last I saw their farm system was ranked 21st. Not exactly that high.
But I thought you said that low-ranked farm systems could still bring back big names?
I did and it can. I’m asking a simple question since I’m not familiar with their farm. But for a team that’s ranked low, you would have to expect a Major Leaguer to go to (Sale, Abreu, etc.). Similar to how Oakland traded Cespedes and how Detroit traded A-Jax and Smyly
As far as the Yankees ML roster goes, I only see Gardner, Pineda, Betances, and Prado having good trade value.
The Yankees probably have enough to get a deal done, but it just doesn’t make sense. They don’t have the stud prospects but a collection of good prospects. So for them they would have to substitute impact for volume and that almost always leads to an overpay and regret. Would love Tulo, but with the health risk and price tag (prospects + money)…it just doesn’t seem worth it.
I honestly don’t think the Yankees have the talent to make a trade for Tulowitzki, even if they could technically come up with ‘fair’ value in quantity, the Rockies are definitely going to want quality for players like Tulo or Cargo.
They have the talent to make a deal, but like I said it wouldn’t be worth on their end either. So the fit isn’t really there. Plus other teams can offer better prospects in return. The only thing the Yankees can do that the majority cannot is take on a lot of that salary. It’s a non-factor for a team like the Dodgers though.
Even disregarding what other teams could or would offer, I really don’t think the Rockies take a quantity over quality package for those guys. I’m fairly confident they would simply say no.
Agree to disagree, most fans won’t admit to the Yankees actually having solid prospects in the system because it’s much more fun to simply ignore them and disregard the system as weak. Besides, no one would really know unless they’re in the front office exactly what other teams look for in other teams systems.
They do have solid prospects, but it’s going to take more than solid prospects to get them to part with those guys.
Then perhaps our evaluations on Tulo’s value is different. I don’t think he will cost as much as you think.
I don’t think he should cost a king’s ransom, but since Colorado could hang onto him, if a team really wants him, they’re going to have to overpay in quality and quantity, probably.
He’s one of the best players in the game, and they aren’t even motivated to trade him. It’s going to take a ton to get him out of Colorado.
Be honest, did you think the A’s were going to get Shark and Lester and did you think the Tigers would get Price, with the very low talent those 2 teams had in their farm?
Going into the year, they were ranked 27th and 29th respectively in Baseball Prospectus rankings. Yankees were 23rd FWIW.
The A’s traded a consensus top 10 prospect (something the Yankees don’t have), and a legitimate middle of the order hitter (something the Rockies aren’t looking for in a trade) for Shark and Lester, and the Tigers traded multiple years of control of a young, established #2-3 pitcher (something the Yankees don’t have enough of already) for Price. Plus, Tulo is a lot more valuable than any of those guys anyway.
Drew Smyly has Never proven to be an established #2-#3 pitcher. Potential #2-#3. Established? No.
I don’t think the Yankees could get the deal done because they don’t really have a center piece. They don’t have a Will Myers or Addison Russell type to center the package around.
I would love to see the Yanks trade their young talent for either of these guys. Go ahead, add another player to your old, expensive roster that can’t stay on the field. Either 1 would fit right in!
Yankees don’t usually trade for old guys, we sign them as free agents.
Tulo is pretty much a 3 month player. He’s one of the top 3 players in the world when he’s healthy, but he’s never healthy. Ever.
Cargo.Maybe Boston. Mookie betts and Swihart.
No.
could happen. with Rusney in town Betts could be on the way out. Cargo with Papi could happen just as much as any other random post going on right now.
Why in the world would the Red Sox trade one of the few bright spots they had last season (Betts) for anything short of an ace? That is not even taking the OF overcrowding the Sox already have
they will get that with the Mets maybe. if they don’t send out Betts maybe Cespedes in a deal for Wheeler.
What?
anything could happen. Boston is a good landing spot for Cargo or an ace like you are saying.
An ace yes, not an injury prone Outfielder to further crowd the roster
Yeah no, it’s really not a good landing spot
Boston has seven outfielders plus Brock Holt all under contract for 2015. They are in the business of getting rid of outfielders, not adding more.
Betts is already better than Cargo is currently
get out of here with that…lol
Not when Cargo is healthy. Not even close.
Gonzalez in 70 games- 83 wRC+, -0.3 WAR
Betts in 52 games- 130 wRC+, 1.9 WAR
You are taking a 50 game sample size from Betts and disregarding the career of Cargo? I am high on Betts as well but this is over the top. Cargo is a perennial all-star when healthy
What, Cargo’s two above average seasons where he posted a 4.7 and 5.7 WAR? Betts was on pace to match that this past season at age 21, with a very sustainable BABIP and some of the best plate discipline in the game.
That was his first taste of the bigs, lets see him build a track record before comparing him to a known commodity when healthy
There you are again with “when healthy”….CarGo’s hurt seasons are disasters, and he’s rarely healthy. It’s like the Tulowitzki question except the full-season upside is around a 4-4.5 win player rather than best player in the NL.
“when healthy” is the key though.. I clearly stated “NO” to the proposed trade, but i simply said to hold up on anointing a 21 year old a perennial allstar without at least a full season of at bats
Not only is Carlos Gonzalez overrated, he was probably one of the worst outfielders in the game last year. I’d rather have post-steroids Ryan Braun than him.
That’s a bit of a stretch. Healthy CarGo is a very good player, and post-PED Braun doesn’t even appear to be average.
I do think CarGo currently is better than Betts when healthy, but that “when” is important, Betts will be better soon, possibly by next season if he develops as expected, and CarGo /is/ terribly overrated. I don’t think CarGo is as good as, among others, Jacoby Ellsbury, Brett Gardner, Bryce Harper, Jayson Werth, Stanton, Upton, Heyward, Carlos Gomez, Alex Gordon, Lorenzo Cain, Puig, Pence, Holliday and several other outfielders. He’s good, but he’s also overrated.
I don’t think Cargo is overrated when he is healthy, the guy just can’t stay on the field
He’s got a career 121 wRC+ and 19 WAR in 3100 PA, or about 3.67 WAR per 600 PA. If he can get 600 PA, he’s good, but he’s also not exactly the best thing ever. He’s had one great full season, one great shortened season, a pretty good shortened season, a solid full season, a solid half season, an average debut, and a disastrous 2014. Steamer currently projects him for a 120 wRC+ and ~3 WAR in 630~ PA, while projecting Betts for 2.9 WAR in 430 PA, with a 120 wRC+. Hey, look at that, a major projection system projects them as offensive equals next year, and Betts is expected to play a good amount of CF at a solid level, so he’s overall projecting better. I’m not saying Betts is better, but the people here are acting as if Carlos Gonzalez is a mega superstar, and he’s not.
I feel it is far too early in Betts’ career to tell who is better. 52 games is not a large enough sample size for me. Same goes for Cargo, his numbers last year were way lower than his career averages. Only looking at last season, Betts’ numbers are better but again, very small sample size for Betts.
I could only see Betts being dealt this offseason if the Nats decide they can’t sign Jordan Zimmermann long term and work out a deal with the Bo Sox.
There’s no way the Sox are trading five years of Betts for one year of Zimmermann.
No way Boston should or will do this. I’d much much much rather have Betts and Swihart. Betts alone is way too much for CarGo. Boston already has way too many outfielders with Cespedes, Craig, Castillo, Nava, Bradley and Victorino. No need to trade an outfielder along with an elite catching prospect for….another outfielder. Betts should be untouchable except in discussions for someone like Stanton, Donaldson, Trout, McCutchen, Lucroy, Posey, etc. the truly elite of the elite.
Wouldn’t Tulo be a better fit in Fenway, with Bogaerts shifting to third, than “another” outfielder?
both would be nice. but Cargo and Papi is pretty sweet.
Bogaerts is a bad third baseman
Kept hearing on these boards Bogaerts would be a top 5 SS entering last season.
He was in 3 months of the season. The other 3 he wasn’t. The book is still open on him.
He is? You can tell that after less than half a season at the position when he’d literally never played there before? Scouts have long said that his skillset would fit the position particularly well, and he would likely become at least above average at the position with experience.
I think Boston keeps Mookie before they trade for an OF (they have too many already), even one as good as Cargo. Tulo would be a different story I think.
Wouldn’t mind seeing Z inquire about Tulo. His .818 career road split would have put him 2nd on last year’s team behind only Robbie Cano’s .836.
Tulo when healthy is one of the best in baseball. He has averaged a little over 100 games in the past 5 seasons with last season only playing in 91. I would love it if he was a Yankee and could stay healthy.
He was last healthy in 2009.
Dodgers could certainly use Tulo, but I’m guessing any in-division trade would have to involve two of Seager/Urias/Pederson and probably another couple B-level guys. For a guy who just turned 30 and has averaged 88 games played in the last three years, I’ll pass.
I said the same thing, but the Dodgers are supposed to have some young shortstops coming up soon. Rojas, I think.
Rojas is already up and it’s safe to say that he’s not going to be an above-average major league shortstop with his bat. Actually, I’m being nice.
There is another one too. A Cuban player. Esribel Arruebarrunea. I’d still like to see them make a play for Tulo, but I am not sure they need him.
Arruebarrunea debuted as well, and would be a decent shortstop defensively, I think (haven’t watched him player; going based off what I’ve heard)…. but I don’t know if he’ll hit.
It’s nice to be a fan of a team (the Mets) with a smart front office who could get Tulo and/or Cargo if they wanted. Honestly though, I’d be against giving up Syndergaard, which probably makes a deal unlikely.
Why is everyone going crazy on Syndergaard? he took a step backwards in his supposed progression in AAA this year and please dont use the thin air Las Vegas as an excuse
People always overvalue their own teams’ prospects (Not saying Syndergaard is a bad prospect).
People overvalue prospects.
Maybe you’re just undervaluing Mets prospects? Pretty odd because of how successful recent Mets pitching prospects have been (Harvey, deGrom, and Wheeler have all done really well).
Why can’t we use Vegas as an excuse? As long as his stuff looks the same i wouldn’t be worried about his AAA numbers.
I am not saying hes a bust, but his control was pretty off
His control was fine. He had a 7.4% walk rate. His numbers are actually a lot better than Harvey, Wheeler, or deGrom’s were at the time. Using ERA as a way to evaluate pitchers, especially minor league pitchers, is simply not a good idea.
3 BB/9 is pretty off? I’d say a 3.70 FIP in Vegas, a higher level than he’d ever pitched in before, is progress. It’s not lighting the world on fire, but it’s well within the realm of his natural progression through MiLB..
I think FIP is harsh on Syndergaard too. Remember that Vegas inflates HR/9 like crazy.
The thin air isn’t an excuse when it’s a perfectly valid reason. Syndergaard just needed to pass the test at AAA. He’s MLB-ready right now and should be up in short order if he remains healthy through ST and the start of 2015. Many prospect evaluators that I’ve seen actually are calling Thor’s 2014 *progress*…
He actually did really well. When has 9.8 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9 ever been bad, especially in the PCL for a 21/22 year old?
If you look at his defensive independent numbers he was actually really good in Las Vegas. He posted excellent strikeout (24.9%) and walk (7.4%) rates. The only thing that hurt his ERA was a poor BABIP, which is likely a result of a bad Las Vegas defense and an extreme offensive environment in Vegas.
That infield plays very fast, every pitchers BABIP goes up there.
The Mets are so smart that they will be paying Bobby Bonilla $2,000,000/year until 2035.
And?
And they are not smart.
Did Sandy Alderson negotiate that contract? No? Cool.
You’re right it was a different front office. The team still has to pay though.
Noah Baron – the original guy you replied to – cited their front office, by which I assume he means the current front office, not when Steve Phillips – or whoever negotiated Bonilla’s buyout, because I don’t even remember – was the man at the helm. Also, on a totally unrelated note, I find it hilarious that it wasn’t actually Bonilla’s famed 5-year, 29 MM contract the Mets are paying for. I believe it’s his second rich contract, the one he signed in Miami and was under when the Mets reacquired him, that the Mets bought out.
Yes it was Phillips at the helm for that deal, and yeah its the second deal, they owed him 5.9 million and instead decided on the 1.2 mil per year for 25 years or what ever that math is for a 30 million over 25 years.
I wonder if the 1.2 MM per year 25-year annuity actually has a present value in 2011 of 5.9 MM brought forward to 2011, at least using baseball interest rates.
A lot of teams are and have paid players after they were released, traded, retired etc. So I’m still failing to see why this particular sample suddenly makes the entire Mets organization stupid…
I think you got it a little twisted, the Mets ownership is a bit…out there, however Alderson is a fine GM
“It’s nice to be a fan of a team (the Mets) with a smart front office”
Said no one ever, until you just posted this.
well can’t blame them for trying but no way are they getting much for Cargo. Tulo has a lot of value though
Any GM that trades more than $0.75 on the dollar for Tulo and $0.50 on Cargo needs to be fired. Those guys can’t stay healthy and are expensive, offensive drought in baseball or not.
This is posturing by the rockies, they have to trade Cargo, they have Cuddyer, Dickerson, Stubbs and Blackmon. They do not need Cargo or his salary. They can ask for whatever they want but they are trading Cargo, and I doubt he costs much.
Cuddyer hasn’t accepted the QO yet, has he?
I find it hard to imagine a scenario at this point where he doesn’t end up with the Rockies. He was looking at a deal around 3/30 before, but the with QO he wont get that from another team. I’d put the odds in favor of him either taking the QO or resigning with the Rockies on a deal worth ~3/30
Cuddyer refusing the qualifying offer would be the only thing stupider than the Rockies offering him it.
If I’m the Mets, I try to get Jason Heyward for some combination of Niese, Murphy, and a low-level prospect before I call the Rockies.
Niese. Murphy and tons of low level prospects are not going to get you Heyward.
Yeah it would. Heyward had 1 year of team control left and is a long shot to get extended. I think if you offered Murphy, Niese and another guy, that’d get the deal done.
no way. Murphy is a platoon waiting to happen.
Murphy is not a platoon piece
He’s worse against lefties than righties, but he’s good enough overall to start for another few years before he’s relegated to less playing time. If he gets off 2B, he could be useful for another five years.
Doubtful for an inter-division trade. I think one cheap year of Heyward is worth more than Niese’s contract, Murphy’s walk year and a prospect. Heyward’s really good.
Depends on the prospect. I’m sure the Braves would love to have Steven Matz
And murphy has how many years left?
One year, but Jon Niese is a very good starting pitcher with 4 years, plus another prospect? Yeah right.
He’s a 3 starter.
4 years of a number 3, an allstar 2B and a prospect for a outfielder who hasn’t hit 20 HR in 3 years. Only reason I don’t completely love the WAR stat is because they value defense equally to offense. Heyward offensively is similar to Murphy.
I don’t get this issue. If he’s five runs above average in the field – i.e., he saved five runs compared to the average player – how is that worth more or less than if he were five runs above average at the plate – i.e., he create five more runs compared to the average player? Both made the team five runs better. You can take exception to the exact defensive figures, but I don’t get the issue with the premise.
Why? Niese is a 2 WAR pitcher under control for 4 years and Murphy gives the Braves a 2-3 WAR 2B. Obviously the prospect would have to be significant. The Mets have a ton of quality prospects all over their minor league system.
Murphy and LaStella are 1 and the same.
You mean besides the fact that Murphy can actually hit, right?
Murphy 2014 WAR: 2.8
La Stella 2014 WAR: -0.1
look at La Stella’s track record.
Are we talking by low-level prospect someone in the low-minors with high potential or a C prospect anywhere in the system? If we’re talking Steven Matz or someone of good caliber, that changes it.
It all depends on what the Braves are willing to do. Obviously I’d prefer a low level prospect. I’d make Syndergaard and Nimmo untouchable.
I would however try to build a package around Plawecki, Matz, and others for Cargo
This has been post multiple times before and I haven’t understood it once. The Braves aren’t trading Heyward to a divison rival for two average players and a low-level prospect.
Agreed. They’re gonna want Syndergaard. I’d entertain the thought if the Mets were actually willing to lock up Heyward after such a trade is done.
Think Quintana and Semien for Cargo gets it done?
I say no if I’m Rick Hahn. I think Quintana is currently a better overall player than Carlos Gonzalez, and that’s not including Quintana’s amazing bargain contract. In fact, I demand CarGo+ good prospects from Colorado for Quintana alone, much less Semien.
The thing is though the White Sox can afford to take on a contract like Cargo’s, and they have a plethora of lefty’s in the rotation. Danks + prospect(s) would be optimal, but I’m not so sure that Colorado would be interested.
They’d be better off keeping Quintana though. Anyone else. Eaton/Quintana/Sale/Abreu are untouchable if I’m Hahn. They’re all way too valuable to give away. All will provide significant excess value to their salaries. If Colorado insists on Quintana, I’d just buy an outfielder on the FA market, even if it’s Cruz or Melky. CarGo is owed 53 MM through 2017, and Cruz would probably be virtually the same AAV through 2018 and Melky would be a lower AAV through 2018 or 2019. I go with Quintana+Melky/Cruz/some other OFer over CarGo+starter-that-isn’t-Quintana. I view Quintana and his contract as a top-25 trade asset in baseball. It’s so team-friendly, and he’s so good.
Those contracts tho..
How about Tulowitski to the Atlanta Braves? They send Simmons, a starting pitcher and prospects back to Colorado. They might insist on adding BJ Upton to the trade to help with finances.
This isn’t an awful ideal, but can the Braves take on that much $$. While adding BJ would offset some of Tulo’s contract, it weakens the Braves offer. The Braves would swap defense for much needed offense. The Rockies would get GG defense and hope that Coors would boost Simmons offensive numbers to go with his defense.
Trade proposal.
yanks send Gary Sanchez (C) top hitting prospect in Organization and few other lesser prospects such as Austin, Avilino, and Chase Whitley for Tulo and eat remaining money of contract.
No way do we trade Clarkin (arguably our best pitching prospect lefty) or Judge ( OF top prospect) for a player always hurt owed that much money.
Tulo is the best shortstop in the game. Gary Sanchez is awful. No.
Gary Sanchez is not awful, but yea that trade doesn’t get done.
So Yanks send their 4th or 5th best prospect plus filler to the Rockies for one of the top 5 players in the game when healthy (even when he’s not healthy, he’s still one of the top 20 in baseball)? I’m pretty sure even RAJ wouldn’t pull the trigger on that one.
If your starting with Gary Sanchez, I don’t think the Rockies are even going to bother listening to the rest of the trade.
Commence rosterbation.
Verlander and Iglesias for both of them. That is as far as I am willing to go.
Yeah, a declining starter with an awful contract and an injury prone shortstop whos never played a full season
The last time Tulo played a 140 games was 2011. He did not reach that number of games in 2012… or 2013… or 2014
Iglesias was a rookie in 2013. He missed his Sophomore season in 2014. I would hardly call him injury prone (he had exactly one injury).
Tulo, you can certainly call injury prone.
You are putting too much stock into Iglesias, hes only had around 400 at bats in the majors and hes not all that impressive to begin with. Tigers do not have the pieces for Tulo or CarGo.
Just remember that comment… When you see Iglesias over the next few years.
I am positive that Dombrowski could make a deal for CarGo right now (not sure about Tulo) with the pieces the Tigers already have. Of course, I not sure he would want to.
Who would Detroit trade? they have nobody in the farm system and nobody on the major league team that brings value, maybe Porcello but then who else?
Colorado needs pitchers because they cannot get Free Agents to go there. I would say that Sanchez, Porcello, Price or Verlander would all interest Colorado.
Not only that but they need SP with long term contracts to keep them in Colorado or else they are rentals. Colorado needs to get ground ball pitchers like Porcello to counter playing in a homer happy park
Considering the fact that Colorado fielded one of the worst teams in all of the Majors last year, just about anyone on Detroit’s roster or farm system would be an upgrade.
If I were Detroi,t I would also demand they send 2 Major League ready stand in players who would be needed to play the 1/2 season both Tulo and Cargo would miss. Anyone interested in either of these guys must understand the hidden cost of also needing replacement players to fill in for the many games these “stars’ would miss. Both are good or great players, but can’t be looked at as any more than “part time players”.
He missed his sophomore season with bone fractures in his legs as a result of poor nutrition growing up in Cuba, he could have a lot more injuries headed his way. Don’t think he carries much trade value currently.
That is a lot speculation based on one bobblehead sports writer’s opinion re: calcium.
But I would say that both Cargo’s and Tulo’s injury risks are on par or greater than Iglesias.
A shin splint evolving into a stress fracture is pretty common and usually recoverable. However, we shall see. Lets see how Iglesias plays this year.
If I were Dombrowski, I am not sure I would do the deal. I would only do it if I knew I could sign Scherzer or Price long term to replace Verlander.
Multiple sports writers have run with it, I don’t know who started it and my reference comes as a Cubs fan and seeing Soler deal with it, seems like the 24 and under crowd has more instances than the older Cuba players.
But yeah I’d love to see Iglesias come back strong, he’s a lot of fun to watch on D. I think Verlander will have an excellent ’15
Verlander’s contract has way more excess negative value than either Tulowitzki or CarGo. There’s no way Colorado takes on that much salary. If they trade Tulowitzki it would be for the future, not to get worse right now. Tulowitzki is worth well more than both of them, monetary considerations included.
If the Rockies want to have any shot at success, the first thing they need to do is dump Coors field and build a pitcher friendly dome to get out of the thin air. Then build their team around good pitchers and good defensive players, and they already have a couple in LaMahieu and Arenado.
If they want to have any shot at success they should find a front office that knows how to build a competitive baseball team
They got tons of guys who can hit and no one who can pitch.
Story of the Rockies, their pitching staff has always been bad. They can’t develop them
How much of both of those are mirages caused by Coors Field? Are their hitters actually this good? Are their pitchers actually this bad? Those are both interesting questions, and ones we may never know the answer to.
You should see some of those players splits, it is shocking
So you think it’s easier to build a new ballpark asap, then it is to fix the on field talent?
Rockies have to learn what types of pitchers will succeed there, and they need a better front office.
Why was cuddy given a freaking QO?
They are bad front office
Come on Red Sox, go for him. Starts with Xanders.!
If you are starting with Xander, who looked overmatched all year then you might as well just close discussions
Did you watch any Red Sox games? Xander looked solid for 3 months of the season, but really, really bad for the other 3. He still has middle of the order potential with the bat and average-ish defense
He started to fall of when Drew was signed, and fans blamed that because Xander was playing out of position which is a myth. Point is, if the Sox are gonna make a move for Tulo AND CarGo you have to at least include Mookie and Swihart
Which is a moot point because Cargo doesn’t fit and I truly doubt Tulo moves to Boston
Exactly, probably will not happen anyway. To be honest? I don’t see Tulo and CarGo getting traded anyways
Neither do I, but I do find it amusing to see teams with no trade chips talking up their prospects.
Best one I saw so far was Verlander and Igelsias
I am just telling you how far I would go if I were Detroit.
Not much farther than Verlander and Iglesias (substitute Castellanos if you like). I would be upset if Detroit gave up more than that for both of them.
No. The reason they would go after him is to move Xander to 3B, if Xander has to be part of the deal they’d be better served keeping him and signing someone for 3B.
Never gonna happen. Monfort, the owner of the Rockies, would never let either Tulo or CarGo go because those two are the faces of the Colorado Rockies. Only way is if Tulo and/or CarGo request a trade.
-someone from Denver who knows the Rockies very well
Who cares if they are the faces. They will never win with them.
It depends on if you think the owner is worried about making money or winning championships. Of course they all say they want championships (they do = $$) but most of these guys just seem to care about $ 1st, winning is 2nd priority. My point being a face of a franchise sells tickets, merchandise.
Because Tulo and CarGo bring in $$$$$.
Plus Monfort is a loyal person (see Cuddyer’s QO for example). The Rockies front office is the most dysfunctional front office in the MLB.
But, yeah you are right. Rockies really should especially think about trading CarGo since they have so many outfielders. Even a Tulo trade would be okay, since he’s injured so often that they to use Rutledge (and Ynoa) in some capacity anyway.
Trade em both, get some pitching because they are in dire need of it. And then…wait a second. Could they become, dare I say it, contenders in a division with the Giants and Dodgers?
Nobody will pay the Rockies what Tulo’s worth, so they should keep him. They could get 2 top 100s and 2 spare parts, but he’s worth more than that.
As for Carlos Gonzalez, he’s worth less than the Rocks would like to think he is. Pedestrian numbers out of Coors, high K rate, terrible/injured 2014.
Gonzalez to the cardinals????
A healthy Carlos Gonzalez in Camden Yards has been very intriguing to me. I know Bundy & Harvey would be the 1st names Colorado asked for but that’s not happening unless Colorado ate the whole contract. Maybe something involving Miguel Gonzalez could start discussions. Miguel has 3 years of control left. Then maybe like one of Zach Davies, Mike Wright or Tim Berry. I’m not that familiar with Colorado’s farm system so I’m just assuming they want all pitching in return.
Aaron Sanchez, Roberto Osuna, Anthony Gose and Sean Nolin for Tulo?
Im sure Colorado is just dying to accept that one
Jays would have to part with Stroman and Sanchez just to get talks started. I wouldn’t even make the trade if I was the Jays, Tulo can’t stay healthy in Colorado, how would he possibly stay healthy playing on concrete?
Also, Gose and Nolin have nearly zero value at the moment.
I don’t know about Tulo or Cargo, but I’d like Charlie Blackmon on the White Sox.
So would most other teams.
I meant most other teams would want Blackmon as well.
Really? I wouldn’t think an average player like Blackmon would generate significant interest. He’s decidely average, an average hitter, below average fielder, above average baserunner, overall about average. I wouldn’t really want him, since his Colorado superficial stats should let him get paid decently in arbitration: 19 HR, 72 RBI, 82 R, .288 AVG, 28 SB. That looks good in today’s offense-starved economy, but he’s not that good. He’s certainly useful, but not amazing.
Samardzija for Tulo?
Sorry Billy.
You would have to give away your entire farm system for Tulo, and that’s if it’s a good one. CarGo would most likely get traded rather than Tulo
Yankees should offer Romine, Huff and Beltran for these old, washed up Coor’s Field creations.. Any team that would trade any prospects for these two high priced, njury prone players are crazy
Braves… BJ and Gattis for Gonzales.
Just saying!!
Cervelli and Phelps for Tulo. If Cashman doesn’t get it done, he failed
I wouldn’t even do that.. Well, maybe… Hate to lose Phelps though..
“Cashmain failed”
how about Arod for both Tulo and Cargo? lets cut down on the dreaming a bit buddy
Cargo to STL!
As a Mets fan, no thanks. Both players have a rap sheet of DL stints a mile wide, are very expensive, about to enter their 30s and will cost the farm.
Last three years games played for:
Tulo: 47, 126, 91
Cargo: 135, 110, 70
And the Rockies want teams to pay as if they were fully healthy? For. Get. It.
I d much rather have some of the Rock’s young talent like Blackmon than Tulo or CarGo..
HUGE red flag if Colorado wants to sell on Tulo now after hip surgery.
I’d love to see Neal Huntington inquire on Tulo. Wonder if Mercer, Taillon + a couple other minor leaguers would get it done. I know Pirates and money don’t normally happen, but Tulo in our infield would be extraordinary.
CarGo would look great in StL. After the Oscar Taveras tragedy we have a huge hole in RF. Guarantee Mozeliak has made a phone call. StL has talent to offer too.
Who would u give up?
Not sure specifically but have lots of young starting pitching, young outfielders. I’m sure Colorado would start by asking for Carlos Martinez.
Marco Gonzales was Mr Baseball in Colorado.
Kaminski?
Im not sure Cardinals are going to trade for him… I think that if Taveras was here Cardinals would have wound up traded him…
I don’t believe OT was ever going to be anything other than our RF’r for the next 10 years. Difference of opinion perhaps…Oscar’s rise through the minors was awesome.
He could have been but he was all hype I don’t think he was really that good to be honest…. Sad that hes gone but I don’t think he fitted in the clubhouse that well…
Jackie Bradley Jr, Middlebrooks and Rubby De La Rosa for Tulo and $50M cash?
Sarcasm I hope.
It wouldn’t be if I was a Red Sox fan.
An team that pays for healthy production levels of Tulo will be disappointed. over the last 5 season he has average 105 games played.
I hope Texas at least calls on Cargo. He would be a great fit and we have pieces to deal to go along with supposedly limitless money to spend. At this point I would do Profar, Martin, and Moreland for Cargo and we eat the contract. Rockies probably want pitching though
I don’t think there’s any player in history that a team just completely refused to listen to offers on. I really hope they don’t get traded, though. About all there is to get excited about on this team.
Are you kidding?? Blackman, C Dickerson, D Stubbs, N Arenado,???? Give me these young players, you can keep Tulo and CarGo..
i’d rather have starlin castro than overrated tulo. they will give TOOO MUCH for tulo ,and that would be the demise of the mets if they trade for tulo.
Actually im pretty sure both Baseball America and pro scouts rank the Yankees system pretty poorly.
Tulo is hardly overrated. He just can’t stay on the field.
Look it up
Mookie is only the second best Mookie in recent history, much less a better player than Carlos Gonzalez.
Betts has not even played a full season yet
Gonzalez is terribly overrated, he has only had two above average seasons.
What Mookie is better than Betts? Am I forgetting a Mookie? You can’t be referring all the way back to Wilson…? Did my memory totally blank on someone?
And Cargo can’t stay on the field
You are comparing their health, when healthy CarGo is more than likely the better hitter at this point anyways, Betts has not even played a full season, lets see how he does once he has a scouting report
Or more likely someone that knows if Yankees have prospects.
Yes BA ranks Yankees system poorly. Do you realize year after year the top 100 prospects, maybe only 10 actually amount to anything of value in long run? Please rely on your teams scouts first and foremost.
BA ranked it 16th going into the year and this was after a season in which they were coming off injuries and some top prospects didn’t have a good year. I’d expect it to be ranked 10-15.
Really?
The much mocked Verlander had a 3.3 fWAR playing at 80% while recovering from core surgery last year. Should he have just sat out 1/2 a season like CARGO and TULO then?
CARGO had a -0.3 fWAR for some comparison.
I’m sure you said the same about Jesus Montero.
Montero always had the potential to mash, but hes lazy with a horrible work ethic
Carlos Gonzalez is like Babe Ruth with swagger, sure he gets hurt some times, but his bat is elite. .330/.400/.625 for his career with the Rockies*, very hard for any guy in his first year to equal that greatness.
*the above numbers do not include his work away from home.
Is there any factual evidence to maybe 10? I looked at the top-25 prospects from Baseball America in 2004 and found the following dudes on it, all of whom have provided significant value: Joe Mauer, BJ Upton, Edwin Jackson, Rickie Weeks, Alex Rios, Grady Sizemore, Prince Fielder, Scott Kazmir, Zack Greinke, Casey Kotchman, Justin Morneau, Cole Hamels, JJ Hardy, David Wright, and Gavin Floyd. That’s fifteen of their top-25 in what I’ll call the “Good MLB Player” category. The other ten include Delmon Young, Kaz Matsui, Dustin McGowan, and Jeff Mathis, three of which are still in the league and the other of whom came over from Japan and was mildly successful at times. That’s four in the “Something of Value” category. Our other six – Jeremy Reed, Chin-Hui Tsao, Josh Barfield, Adam Loewen, Andy Marte and Greg Miller were AAAA players or never made MLB. That’s a pretty good success rate for BA considering how fragile everyone thinks prospects are: 6/25, superstars. 6/25, very good MLB regulars, occasional All Stars. 3/25, average-ish MLB regulars. 4/25, bench players and occasional starters. 6/25, no real impact.
Doing the same exercise for 2005 reveals: 5/25 superstars (Mauer, Felix, Hanley, Cain, Fielder). 5/25, very good MLB regulars (Kazmir, Weeks, Billingsley, Quentin, Swisher). 3/25, average-ish MLB regulars (Kotchman, Kubel, Francis). 5/25, bench players, occasional starters (Delmon Young, Ian Stewart, Francoeur, Hermida, Niemann) with the rest being mediocre/never making it (Joel Guzman, Andy Marte, Adam Miller, McPhereson, Milledge, Brian Dopirak, Jose Capellan)
2006 had the best list, and will be the last one I do: Superstars aboud – Justin Upton, Justin Verlander, Matt Cain, Prince Fielder, Alex Gordon, Ryan Zimmerman, Jon Lester and Troy Tulowitzki. That’s 8 of their top-25. There’s a good group of occasional all-stars: Stephen Drew, Francisco Liriano, Chad Billingsley, Howie Kendrick, Carlos Quentin, Nick Markakis and Chris Young, outfielder. That’s seven out of 25. There’s your fringe-regular group: Bobby Jenks, Jarrod Saltalamacchia. 2/25. Your bench group: Delmon Young, Ian Stewart, Conor Jackson, Jeremy Hermida. 4/25. And then your bust group: Andy LaRoche, Andy Marte, Brandon Wood, and Lastings Milledge. 4/25.
Cool story Billy.
If Taveras was still alive then why would they trade him at all? The whole reason they’d trade for Gonzalez is to replace Taveras.
Plus, the Cards have plenty of other guys they could trade, even without Taveras.
The Cardinals could still easily put together a package for Gonzalez. If you think a deal has to be headlined by a top 5 prospect, you’re greatly overrating Gonzalez value.
I’d think it’s gotta have more unless one of those young arms is Paxton and the other is Hultzen or someone like that. Even then to get both is a lot.
I love Tulo. If Ms trade Miller and Taylor, who plays short for the other 90 games? Willie B?
Hey, we all need some humor this early, right??!! lol
I just told my coworker who is a rabid Braves fan. He was more than ready to accept that offer.
If my team was in the shape the Yankees are in I would probably be bitter too. You’re excused
“If my team was in the shape the Yankees are in I would probably be bitter too”
If my team hasn’t won a WS in a Cenutry and counting, I’d surely be bitter too
And no I’m not bitter at all. Yankees farm system is rising and you will see. I for one am sure hoping they Don’t trade it for Tulo.
Speaking of the Cubs, better hope they sign Lester and trade for Hamels. Can’t win if you have no pitching which is what Currently (again keyword Currently) the Cubs don’t have.
I’m not bitter at all. You know what you get when you are a Cubs fan. I hope they sign Lester, no thanks on Hamels, I’d rather wait a year and sign an ace next year. If I was a Yankee fan I wouldn’t want Tulo either.
True on Hamels too. RAJ is ridiculous and let’s just say for fun the Cubs wanted Byrd, RAJ would ask for Bryant.
I wouldn’t trade Paxton straight up Tulo and CarGo..
Hultze Is injured
The Yankees’ farm system has improved; it is not elite, but it is slightly above average now. They can probably put together a workable package for Tulo, but it would gut the top talent in the system.
I’ll add this: I’m not a fan of the Yankees, and I kind of hope they do such a deal, because I feel it would work out badly for them. So take that FWIW.
Heh, that’s why I’m hoping they Don’t do it.
Who would you trade to get Gonzalez? Better not be Miller Wacha Rosenthal Martinez…. So who you wou trade? Grichuk? I don’t think rockies would go for that…
who would u give up?
Yeah the Mookie who hit the ball through Bucker’s legs.
We go sign cabera