The Winter Meetings in Nashville are nearly through and many of the open market’s starting pitchers have found their homes for 2016 and beyond. However, one of this class’s very best, Johnny Cueto, is still searching for his big payday. Cueto is a bona fide ace with years of experience at the head of the Reds’ rotation, but a number of his expected suitors have already allocated major funds towards the top of the starting five. Even though some might have the impression that Cueto’s market is shrinking, agent Bryce Dixon told MLB Trade Rumors in a 1-on-1 interview that he doesn’t see things that way.
“You can always add an ace pitcher to your staff. All thirty teams can use a Cueto,” Dixon told MLBTR on Wednesday in Nashville, Tennessee. “So, yeah, there are teams like the Diamondbacks that have added a [Zack] Greinke and a [Shelby] Miller, so maybe their appetite for him has lessened but, no, I don’t view the market as shrinking up. I’m still finding interest and there still seems to be enough out there for him to land comfortably with a team.”
So far, Cueto has yet to receive an offer that clearly separates him from the second tier of starting pitchers and Dixon says that he is comfortable in waiting. A few weeks ago, Cueto’s camp was handed a sizable offer from the Diamondbacks, one that was worth $126MM over six years, according to ESPN.com’s Buster Olney (on Twitter). Some observers suggested that the offer was a strong one given Cueto’s second half issues and 50/50 showing in the postseason, but Dixon says that he did not discuss the offer at length with the pitcher before they turned it down.
Dixon concedes that the Diamondbacks are one club that does not have a clear fit for Cueto at this stage, but, on paper, the Cardinals do stand out as a team that would have the need and the resources required to sign the veteran. Still, some outsiders have suggested that unpleasant history between the two sides could get in the way of a union. In 2010, the Reds and Cardinals got into a brawl and, in one exchange, Cueto kicked catcher Jason LaRue in the head while wearing spikes. The impact of the kick left LaRue with concussion issues that forced him to retire at the end of the 2010 season. The brawl may still be fresh in the minds of some Cardinals fans, but the Cardinals organization has not brought up the incident in their talks with Cueto’s camp.
“I can’t speak to how the Cardinals feel. ..Obviously [Johnny] regrets how the fight went down,” Dixon told MLB Trade Rumors on Wednesday afternoon. “He’s expressed regret over it in the past. He loves pitching in the NL Central. He’s the best pitcher of our era in the NL Central. It would be a good marriage [between] Johnny and the Cardinals. I think once the fans got past the fight and they saw what a gamer Johnny is and what he could bring to the team, I think they would be able to embrace him now, though I don’t think that they’ll do that overnight.”
Dixon went on to explain that the circumstances of the brawl were complicated. Cueto was pushed up against the screen and, feeling trapped, he made a split-second reaction that he deeply regrets. For a time, the fight may have defined him as someone who is angry or violent, but those who work with and around Cueto, he says, can attest to his mellow character and positive attitude. Ultimately, Dixon can see the Cardinals being a great landing spot for his client.
“Johnny’s best friend is Brayan Pena (Pena signed a two-year deal with St. Louis this winter). Johnny would love to pitch to him and a catcher like [Yadier] Molina, so I think it would be a good fit. Whether the Cardinals step up with the necessary resources, that remains to be seen. But he has no problem towards the Cardinals and the manager of that [2010 Cardinals] team [Tony La Russa] is with the Diamondbacks organization now. He came down and met Johnny and they had no problem. It’s in the past. It’s unfortunate that it happened, but, on our side, we’ve moved on,” said Dixon.
Dixon could see Cueto forming a strong rotation alongside Adam Wainwright, Michael Wacha, and Carlos Martinez, but he could also envision his client looking good in Dodger blue next to Clayton Kershaw in L.A.’s rotation. Those are just two of the fits that Dixon can see for Cueto at this stage and he’s still willing to wait for what he feels is an appropriate pact. When asked to put a timetable on a Cueto signing, Dixon indicated that it could happen in a matter of minutes or a matter of weeks. One option he’s not considering at this time, however, is a one-year pillow deal to allow Cueto to cash in next winter.
“I don’t think we’re going to have to go down that road. We’ll remain flexible but I don’t anticipate something like that,” he said.
I sure would be surprised if the Cardinals signed him. Also, they probably wont do anything else until Heyward’s situation is resolved
Well, Heyward is off the market and to the Cubs at that. Don’t see how the Cardinals avoid responding to this one. He was their top target. They’ll likely sign a free agent outfielder and I expect them to chase Cueto now.
Well, you’re a Yankees fan, so what do you know about how the Cardinals work? If you knew anything, you’d know that Cueto is not an option no matter what.
F that guy. No desire to see him wearing the Birds on the Bat.
Reading Cueto’s agent give a mea culpa because the bottom fell out of his client’s market, instead of Cueto himself, tells you all you need to know.
Cant argue that.. Cueto needs to step up like a man and speak about this before they consider signing him.
He has both discussed and apologized to larue. I prefer a short memory if it makes the team better
I don’t see the Dodgers lining up for him…..there’s something wrong somewhere????
Am I the only person that doesn’t see Cueto as the bad guy? Everyone was calming down and standing around until Carpenter had to continue his hothead ways and blow up some more causing things to get worse. This is what caused the everyone to head toward the backstop and get people pinned against the netting. I for one don’t blame Cueto at all. What is the old adage “there is no such thing as a fair fight” Cueto reacted and kicked someone in the head….I know that if I was pushed up against the netting like he was I would probably have started kicking as well. I’m sure most of you Cardinal fans would have as well. The problem is Cardinal fans claim they are the smartest fans in baseball, but yet the all defend Carpenter for yelling at teammates during games and being a complete douche bag. Yet they condemn someone for reacting out of instinct when pushed into a corner.
Chris Carpenter got pushed into the same position as Cueto when him and Rolen got into it. Not one punch or kick was thrown by either. Cueto ended a career and only missed one start. The guy is a joke and so was the punishment. I hope the Cardinals don’t sign him because it would be an embarrassment to the fans and LaRue.
Disagree, enough time has passed and he is a reliable arm. I think fans would get over it if he provided value.
The best NL Central pitcher of our era? Ha. Wainwright would like a word.
2011-2015
Wainwright: 55-32, 2.99 ERA, 695.1 IP, 1..106 WHIP, 125 ERA+
Cueto: 64-38, 2.71 ERA, 889.1 IP, 1.082 WHIP, 145 ERA+
You were saying?
That’s a short era.
Cueto is 29… he has been pitching that long.
* Hasn’t. Where did edit go?
What a ludicrous claim to make, slasher. Cueto’s career began all of one year after Wainwright’s first season as a starter, and the WAR totals are 35.3 to 22.8 per FanGraphs. Although Cueto may well be the better pitcher now, that’s far from a certainty after his disappointing finish last season. In any case, what point are you even trying to make? That Cueto’s the best pitcher of the era because an era started at whatever arbitrary cutoff point you want it to start? The two have pitched in almost the exact same number of seasons, and Wainwright has been significantly more valuable to date. I don’t even see an argument there.
Adam has been doing it longer. So you have to define the word era. Adam is entering his 11th season. But Chris Carpenter would like to have a word with both of you.
Meaning, he’s older. And less good.
Wainwright is better than Cueto right now.
You forgot the stat under Wainwright’s name that says 2 for the number of championships he has won.
I’d give that honor to Carpenter
Ditto.
There’s only one starter in the NL Central that has a Cy Young Award on his mantle… so long as we can pick and choose what period of time constitutes an ‘era,’ I’m going to say Arrieta is the most dominant NL Central pitcher of the era! haha
Wainwright is dominating pretty much every yr. Arrieta only started getting good in his 3rd yr with cubs his 4 yrs with Baltimore he sucked real bad. Also winning a cy young cause you had a really good 2nd half don’t make you the most dominating
In other words: “Cardinals, we are so sorry for the fight and we are getting nervous at this point, please consider us”… No way Cardinals sign him
+1
Well if Cardinals were to sign him I believe Mike Matheny and Mo would place a call to Molina and ask him on his thoughts and how he felt about catching him.
I personally as a Cards fan have no problem if the Cards would sign him.
Im sure Yadi is heavily involved in any FA signing
I don’t think Yadi would catch him, though. Peña was his personal catcher back in Cincy so I imagine those two would probably do the same thing in St. Louis. That would also help preserve Yadi by giving him every 5th day off, which is something they probably need to do anyway
Just sign him Dipoto
Cueto is a veteran pitcher with a proven track record. Dipoto only likes young inexperience, or over the hill can’t pitch no more. So Cueto isn’t Dipoto’s type.
So what is Wade Miley then, the Lefty who just turned 29YO last month and has thrown 194 innings + the last 4 years, put up reasonable results in extreme offensive parks? Waiting on that…
While true DiPoto may have given up most of Seattle’s fair to decent ‘Pen last year, including Carson Smith as the main piece for Miley, Seattle works under more of a budget than does most other mid market teams and has Cruz, Hernandez and that awful Cano contract on the books to contend with.
Finally be ridding themselves of of Rodney’s 7m AAV paid Miley’s AAV over the next 2 seasons.
I’m not a fan of how he acted during the fight but if he owned up to it, and the core Cardinal veterans that were around when it happened could move past it then I’d definitely be okay with signing him as long as he’s healthy.
He’s a stud pitcher and would look great alongside Waino, Wacha, Garcia and C-Mart.
Here is the deal-purely from a business perspective, you give Cueto 5/100 with a fiith year mutual opt out, you have him for a decent price until age 33. If he ages well, he can get a Greinke deal, and if he ages poorly, the Cardinals are out quickly enough. But a pitcher of his caliber can be hard for a relative bargain, and if you consider what Shark got, you might want to hedge against inflation. Sign him, keep Heyward, and position yourself well for the long-term.
He turned down 6/126. Why would he take 4 and an option for 100 at most?
Exactly. I guess there’s the possibility that his market completely collapses and he takes something like that, but right now, 5/100 is not gonna happen.
If he opted out of that deal he would enter free agency two years older than Greinke.
he would be a good fit for the Yankees
I agree…..how about the Colorado Rockies….do they still have a major league baseball team?.. . . . let me check my sources……..hmmm, yep……they are still on the MLB website. Just checking…..cause I thought since they’ve done NOTHING to sign a top notched pitcher that maybe they decided to sit out the winter meetings and smoke grass all day.
He would be a great fit for the Rockies. But the Rockies ownership is cheap. They are trying to trade everyone who makes over 5 million. Next year they will probably trade Nolan Arendono. Denver is an amazing sports town. But the owners of the Rockies don’t care about winning. They only care about making a profit.
Not many pitchers want to pitch there
Yanks are rumored not willing to give up the money this yr that it would take to get him.
It’s like anything, once they are on your side people magically forget about it. If he can pitch like he has been and the price is right regardless of the past your main goal is to win so you should be after the players that make you better. These are men, they will get over the past and move on. St Louis has a starter need so why not pursue and see what happens
I wouldn’t support queto even if he was free there are lines u don’t cross and kicking like a girl is one of them Piss on him!!!!!!
So you can’t get over ‘kicking a guy,’ but you can get over multiple DUIs… and you likely had no problem celebrating the memory of a guy died in a drunk-driving accident – and took his girlfriend with him.
Just throwing some perspective into the conversation …
Maybe he is upset cueto kicks like a girl than the actual kicking
When you’re pandering to the one team that absolutely does not want to sign your client, you’re terribly desperate.
Ladies and Gentlemen, the winner of the 2016 ‘James Shields’ contract: Johnny Cueto!
Giants, 5 years, $110-120M. All I want for Christmas.
Youll probably need to go 6/155 minimum. I dont see him taking less than Lester.
He’s no Cardinal. Lose the doo-rag and we’ll talk.
6/120 or 5/100. Otherwise, he can stuff the 5 year overdue apology and look elsewhere.
C’mon man “he’s no cardinal” ? What does that mean? I am a lifer cards can and don’t understand this comment….
In response to the “lose the doo-rag’ comment….
As Stephen Colbert sometimes said, “that sounds a bit racist-y”.
Cardinal players can’t wear “doo-rags?”
“He’s the best pitcher of our era in the NL Central.”
Look, I understand this is his agent speaking but…. this is really not close. Not even close at all.
The only years where Cueto has had a straight up higher WAR than Wainwright have been Waino injury impacted seasons: 2011 (out with TJ), 2012 (returning from TJ) and 2015 (out with Achilles). And note that in 2012, it was 4.1 vs. 4.7.
In terms of what was stated, NL Central Pitcher of this Era, it is best to look back starting at 2004′ (for Carpenter) and run through 2015.
Wainwright Cumulative WAR 2004-2015: 35.1
Carpenter Cumulative WAR 2004-2015: 28.7
Cueto Cumulative WAR 2004-2015: 22.8
Breaking down segments, Cueto only has a higher WAR when you take 2011/2012/2015 into account, which again, were an injury impacted seasons for Waino. Shoot, if you take the total of Cueto’s 2010 and 2011 it does not match just Waino’s 2010.
Anyway, that being said, I would not mind Cueto on the Cardinals – after they sign Heyward and after he issues some sort of apology/statement to the organization, clubhouse, and fans.
That’s’ a really silly comparison when Cueto didn”t break into the majors until 2008! Plus WAR is based on FIP, and Cueto has ALWAYS outperformed his WHIP. WAR for pitchers is an experiment at best at this point.
That’s supposed to say always outperformed his FIP.
I think you missed my sentence where I stated that however you segment it out, Waino is still better than Cueto:
Wainwright Cumulative WAR 2008-2015: 30.3
Cueto Cumulative WAR 2008-2015: 22.8
Wainwright Cumulative WAR 2010-2015: 22.0
Cueto Cumulative WAR 2010-2015: 19.7
You’re still using WAR — a stat based on FIP. FIP doesn’t work for every pitcher and Cueto is one of those pitchers. It’s been well documented, that certain pitchers always outperform their FIP and that statisticians haven’t really figured out why yet.
What stat do you want to use then? …ERA?
Wainwright Career ERA: 2.98
Cueto Career ERA: 3.30
I can’t figure out any way that Cueto is better.
Yes ERA is better, but ERA+ is even better. Also really like WHIP, as preventing baserunners is the best way to prevent runs.
Cueto: 3.30 ERA, 122 ERA+, 1.181 WHIP
Waingwright: 2.98 ERA, 133 ERA+, 1.159 WHIP.
For their careers Wainwright has been better, but the last five years, Cueto has been better. The career numbers should even out some as Cueto is 4 years younger, and really i just now hitting his prime.
I think Cueto and his agent will rue the day they turned down the 6 year $120 million offer they had from Arizona. Actually, the D-Backs in hindsight are probably glad he did, since they ended up with Greinke, albeit for a lot more money. I get the impression that Cueto and his agent feel like he is more valuable than Jordan Zimmermann, but judging by how slow the market for him seems to be I don’t think most baseball executives feel that way.
Great plan great fit stop waiting on Heyward get Cueto signed you’ve got a ton of outfielder/infielder super utility types and Grichuk along with Gyorko and Piscotti and Holliday they need a top tier pitcher NOW!
unless the dodgers sign him cueto is in a world of trouble for turning down the 6/120
“Best pitcher of our era in the NL Central?” Sorry, but that title belongs to Adam Wainwright.
Anyway, brawl or not, the Cardinals still have no need to go after someone like Cueto, especially when they’re more focused on signing a big bat instead. They already have the best 1-4 starting rotation in baseball aside from possibly the Mets, good depth behind them, and several strong prospects with Lynn also coming back in 2017. They just need a durable innings eater to hold the fort.
Heck trade Holliday for Chapman even with his legal problems he’ll be playing after the break and trade Rosenthal for a big bat!
Holliday has full no trade rights. I’m amazed at how many people don’t know this.
You are amazed by that? Most people don’t have the time to memorize the contracts of every major league baseball player. Actually I am amazed that some people do know that Holliday has full no trade rights.
I’m a packers fan and we still have fans mad at Holmgren for going to SEATTLE to be GM and HC fans gotta grow up get over the past ya wanna win now or grind about the past the Cubs are signing everyone they don’t care they want to win Pena catches Cueto and Yadi gets his rest he’s a pro grow up its about catching the baby blue bears now personal feelings don’t belong winning brings fans and a team together.
brett favre didnt kick anybody in the head like a sissy boy
Oh yeah and we forgave Favre for all his stuff get over it and win but first you got to send in a company of sappers to blow open Dewitt’s titanium Velcro wallet to get anything but waiver wire pick ups and Gyorko a super utility player.Now half the team can play the other half of the OF AND IF!
Agent talk during the winter meetings is comical. Reading between the lines “We should have taken the Diamondbacks offer.” Appears he has very few suitors now.
How often does one see an agent trying so hard to not sound desperate, while sounding extremely desperate? I think Cueto still matches what D-backs offered.
I remember the brawl but I personally think the Cardinals should make an offer. He’s a good pitcher and it’s been 5 years since the incident. Cards fans don’t even boo Brandon Phillips anymore. I do think a public apology might be required in the deal though.
Apparently the front office doesn’t have much love for Cueto either, according to Derrick Goold…
I find it silly to discount Cueto based on something that happened more than five years ago against a player who barely ever set foot on the field as a Cardinal. As despicable as the act was, if they aren’t interested in Cueto, it had better be for performance reasons, not some random grudge.
No no no, Brandon Phillips most definitely still gets boo’ed.
LAD front office, please sign him now – I say that hoping they continue to do the opposite of the fans want or what makes sense. Please don’t sign him.
A fight in 2010 means the Cards shouldn’t sign the top remaining FA starting pitcher in 2015?The Vikings signed Brett Favre, believe me, the best way to combat blind, rabid homerism is to just ignore it and make the move you need to make.
i take it you’re not a cardinal nation fan
It’s hard getting into the ‘greatest fans in baseball’ nation. The testing and Joe Buck interview are tough.
i have trouble getting past tim mccarver. joe buck is more a football guy
The Joe Buck is definitely the hardest…expecting someone to stay awake while that man talks….it’s just unrealistic.
If you doubt that the ‘greatest fans in baseball’ are Cardinal fans…just ask them…they well tell you…and tell you…and tell you…
show me
I see him doing a 30+30 deal with someone, probably the Dodgers. Put up a big year enter FA again at 31 as the only good pitcher on the market (barring maybe Strasbourg) and he could get something around 200.
It’s crazy to me that there’s over 3 months left of the offseason and so much has happened already.
Cueto’s agent is the only one talking about this…
Why did this two day old article get bumped to the top?
That’s how they roll
Cardinals won’t be good this year no matter who they sign, window is closing in 2016
That username pretty much sums it up. The team won 100 games this post season, don’t think it is realistic to assume they “won”t be good” in 2016.
Seriously, why was this full piece posted in the first place, let alone reposted at the top? Is MLBTR selling article space to desparate agents. This entire post is ridiculous, and so are all these comments.
Was wondering same thing…! Plus I’m not a Cueto fan and personally would rather see the Cards develop some young pitchers than to sign him. I don’t believe he will provide a good enough return on the investment.
Dixon is a lunatic on two levels. The first is that Cueto was the best pitcher of his era in the NL Central….Carpenter and Wainwright were both better, and it’s not close.
The second is that Cueto is anything other than despicable trash. Watch video of the fight, he TARGETED LaRue’s head with his kicks, and then saw Carpenter and kicked him in the back too. That entire team was full of scum, led by the scummiest manager in the history of the game, Dusty Baker.
When I check to see who is close to signing Cueto and I don’t see the Dodgers are in talks with the pitcher, the more I see LA entering next season without a bona fide ace in the number 2 slot and my confidence in LA’s front office slips another notch or two. Then I envision Friedman and Zaidi picking up another pitcher who has a history of injuries and the two clowns dancing and claiming how they didn’t have to give up any prospects to sign another gimp to join Anderson and McCarthy in LA’s band aid brigade.
Unless these two idiots have some kind of magic trick in their bag, LA will not win as many games as this past season and will not win the division. All the praise they received for making a couple trades and dumping Kemp in the process, didn’t amount to a hill of beans. Once again we see LA brass sitting on their a** as free agents sign with other teams.
As for the Chapman trade I don’t know why they wouldn’t go through with it considering the fact they’ll pay 17 million and 12.4 million a year for two pitchers who never pitched full seasons. This year they’re on the hook to pay McCarthy 18 mil and they gave Anderson a raise at 15.8 mil. Anderson set personal highs last year but still is overpaid for what he delivers while McCarthy remained consistent and suffered a season ending injury. Right now my confidence meter for LA winning a WS or two next couple years is hovering around 1 or 2 with 1 being the lowest and 10 the highest.
And they picked up Iwakuma for 15 mil per year at age 35, 36, 37 after they let Greinke sign elsewhere because they didn’t want to offer a 6 year contract who would be 37 in the final year. He’ll turn 38 on Oct 21, 2021. Basically, they have gambled on a pitcher who is unproven and only once pitched more that 200 innings in his short career of 3 or 4 years. ESPN says 3 while his stats show 4 years.