The Astros have spoken with the Braves about center fielder Ender Inciarte, according to ESPN.com’s Jerry Crasnick (Twitter link). It’s not clear what level of interest Houston has at this point.
Inciarte, 25, went to Atlanta as a key part of the sizable package sent by the D’Backs in exchange for Shelby Miller. He’s emerged as a sneakily valuable player over the last two seasons, delivering outstanding glovework with a solid bat at a bargain price. If he can keep churning out top-notch defensive metrics and repeat his strong .303/.338/.408 slash from last year, Inciarte would profile as a first-division regular.
Of course, Atlanta surely won’t part with Inciarte for anything less than a compelling price. The organization would have ample cause to keep him as a piece of their rebuilding plan, though obviously the same could have been said of some now-former Braves players — Andrelton Simmons, in particular. High-upside players at or near the majors would presumably top the Braves’ wish list, though the Astros have already shipped out quite a few of those in other recent swaps.
It’s not immediately obvious what Houston could have in mind with Inciarte. The team already has a high-upside veteran in center in Carlos Gomez, though he fell short of expectations after being acquired last summer, along with a cheap and speedy backup in Jake Marisnick. And the club seems set in the corners with George Springer and Colby Rasmus — both of whom are also capable of playing center.
It is intriguing to consider the possibilities, though, if the interest is serious. Crasnick says that he’d expect Houston would need to deal away Gomez if it were to cut a deal for Inciarte. That’s certainly one plausible scenario, though they’d be selling low — and in a potentially weak market — after giving up a major haul to get him just months ago. While we’re on hypotheticals, it’s conceptually possible that the team could dangle Springer for an elite young pitcher. We’ve heard suggestions before that the organization isn’t completely unwilling to consider such a scenario, and teams such as the Indians and Rays could theoretically match up. But that’s all pure speculation at this point, of course.
Inciarte + Teheran for Springer + Musgrove?
That’s a terrible idea
That would be dumb of the braves to trade him to Astros for what the won’t give up most has been given up to Philadelphia already
Maybe George Springer, Alex Bregman and Kyle Tucker.
I think Springer, AJ Reed and Kyle Tucker for Inciarte & Freeman makes sense too, seeing as Swanson is probably going to be Atlanta’s everyday SS starting in the middle of 2016 for the forseeable future.
another bafoon putting Freeman in a trade.
hahaha ha you must be smokin some good stuff if you thin inciarte is worth springer hahahahaha
Inciarte isn’t worth springer alone so that doesn’t make much sense.
That’s a terrible deal for the braves and goes against everything they’ve been working to for the past year and half with this rebuild. If a deal does get made the return would be majority prospects to atl and Teheran would not be shipped to Houston.
Nah I think Jon singleton would go for them they are not worth springer
No way, Singleton is more likely to be released than traded at this point. He’s horrible and expensive. No one is taking on that money.
lol absolutely not
Why wouldn’t they want to send a pitcher back for Teheran, like Feldman or Peacock? Why not try to get a left handed pitcher?
Better deal for Astros would be Inciarte + Teheran + Banuelos for Springer, Bregman, Feldman and Peacock.
That package would be counterproductive for the Astros. They would be better off keeping Springer and signing Kennedy or Gallardo.
Perhaps, although Teheran has bargain basement contract for the next 4 years, and wouldn’t cost a draft pick
Yeah anyone that thinks springer would be included in a deal is smokin somthin
Astros’s FO isn’t dumb enough to trade Springer for a pitcher who can’t get lefties out and is losing velo. Springer getting moved makes little sense with Rasmus and Gomez more than likely gone in 2017.
I could see a package of Inciarte, Freeman, and Vizcaino going to the Astros for AJ Reed, Joe Musgrove, Derek Fisher, JD Davis, Michael Feliz and Chris Devenski.
That would allow Houston to move Gomez if they chose to, while strengthening their outfield, bullpen and at firstbase.
In turn the braves would gain a near ready firstbaseman in Reed that could provide in time more power and similar average to Freeman. Reed could be ready as early as May, but could also be given more time in the minors since he hasn’t seen AAA yet. No need to rush his arbitration clock. Davis and Fisher both might show up in September but at the least sometime in 2017. Devenski I think is most likely an eventual bullpen piece, but Feliz and Musgrove have solid shots at being starters. The braves never shy away from pitching depth.
ew…..
that’s a horrible package.
Freeman alone can get AJ Reed+ Kyle Tucker + Francis Martes..
adding Inciarte will just add Musgrove and Fisher//or Cameron
ANd I’m for moving Inciarte to Houston for one of Cameron/Tucker
For Freeman, rather trade him to the RedSox or Pirates…
Actually I meant to include Daz Cameron as well, but I guess that is one of the perils of typing on your phone, swapping windows, and constant interruptions from kids.
My point wasn’t to get every player nailed down, but more or less the needs addressed for each team. Obviously the braves needs are multiple near major league ready talent and the Astros need bullpen depth, improvement in the outfield and firstbase.
MLB talent, but it’s better to get get younger, a bt more far away legit talent than closer, less talent…
No that deal wouldn’t happen. Not all teams throw prospects around like Arizona. I do realize Freeman is a favorite but those prospects won’t be released for a first baseman.
Slap yourself for that
Braves could send Freddie Freeman and Ender Inciarte to Houston for George Springer and four prospects: Alex Bregman, AJ Reed, Daz Cameron and Kyle Tucker. The Astros improve at first base, outfield and give up only prospects.
I hope they dont do anything stupid like this!
I wouldn’t call Inciarte and upgrade over Springer.
*an
The Astros’ front office would.
Where did you get that information?
They’re typically seen as pretty progressive and a very bright group. I highly doubt you’re right.
Inciarte average WAR = 4.45 Springer average WAR – 2.9
Although not much better, Springer IS better than Inciarte..
He’s better than Inciarte in practically every single aspect of the game not named defense.
And by the fact that Inciarte’s numbers were in Chase Field, it kind of works in his favor.
ANd Springer had 3.7 WAR in 2015…. in 200 less at bats than Inciarte.
And according to fangraphs, Inciarte only has 3.3 WAR compared to Springers 3.7…
so in 200 LESS at bats, he produced more WAR.
your argument is pretty much broken
I would, Springer has more power but Inciarte gets on base more, is a better defender, and is ridiculously fast
Springer has a ton more power. Inciarte gets on base more? He gets more singles, sure…but last time I checked a .367 OBP is better than .338. I’ll give you the better defender part. Springer also has a lot of speed.
I’ll take Springer easily.
No he doesn’t.
Springer: .276/.367/.459
Inciarte: .303/.338/.408
.367>.338
exactly springer alone is worth wayyyy more than inciarte
To be honest it would take a massive haul, but I could see some real matches on deals between these two teams if both Inciarte and Freeman were dealt to the Astros.
That is one of the most realistic trade proposals I’ve seen on this site. Bravo sir.
Lol no its not…
That’s perfect for both sides.
If you are truly a trade Meister I would hate to think what a novice would come up with! LOL
Thats terrible for Houston
Why in the world are people saying this is a good trade? Inciarte is worse than Springer. Is Freddie Freeman really worth AJ Reed, and the 2nd and 5th overall picks who haven’t played a full year yet, and a top-10 talent from the same draft in Daz Cameron? That trade would be suicide for the Astros. They should at least give Reed a shot at being the opening day 1B, because he could be the easy answer.
All your take proposals are ridiculous, you should really give up buddy
Inciarte would improve any team he was traded to, I wish the Brewers would get in on him and try to upgrade their centerfield situation.
How about Ender Inciarte and Michael Bourn for Jonathan Lucroy and Domingo Santiago.
Domingo Santana
ew Lucroy..
go for Phillips more than than Lucroy..
you do realize we traded Domingo santana away to the brewers last year right? lol
You do realize that Domingo Santana was never a Braves right?
Brave*
I suppose Jim Bowden’s report is correct then
I have no idea what a potential matchup package would look like here. I wouldn’t have guessed the Astros to call on Inciarte. Still, very deep system in Houston, more than enough to intrigue the Braves I’m guessing.
If the Braves do decide to trade Inciarte I hope they just go all out and ship Freeman as well. I love Freddie but if we can get a once in a lifetime kind of trade package (and the Astro’s have the pieces to do so) you have to really give it some thought.
The Astro’s have a lot of really interesting pieces.
I do hope however they trade neither of the two and they become/stay a part of a winning core.
I can’t imagine Houston would give up Springer for anybody.
I agree. Maybe there is a 3rd team involved who is wanting Gomez
Same.
Shopping Gomez is a far more likely option, though probably not before the start of the season where he can prove he is healthy, as teams should have some concern about his hip.
they wouldent… especially for inciarte lol springer is worth 3 times more
They wouldent, not even for a space ship that can take you to far away galaxies.
the Astros will flip Carlos Gomez and others to the Braves for Inciarte and Freeman. the Braves will allow Gomez to have an epic year flipping him at the deadline for another huge haul. win win… the braves are a force in 4 years.
Braves have no interest in one year of Gomez.
why would you have no interest? Gomez will bring tons of prospects.
So will Teheran and Inciarte, except many more.
One year of any guy never brings in “tons of prospects”. Springer is more likely to be dealt in an Inciarte+Freeman deal – both those guys have multi-years on control left, as does Springer.
What gives you the impression Gomez is going to have an epic year? Where do you get the idea the Braves believe that? Gomez flopped last year..that doesn’t INCREASE his value. You can get include Gomez in a trade package buy you will need much more. I know you said “others” but it sounds to me like you are suggesting Gomez would be the center of your trade package. Oh ya and one year of the guy.
One year of Gomez brings fewer prospects than multiple years of either Freeman or Inciarte.
I think Gomez gets flipped if the Astros do get Inciarte.
Braves have no interest in one year of Gomez, unless it is for Swisher or Bourn.
This sounds just like due diligence.
As a Braves fan, the only player I want to stay is Freddie.. I’m all for trading Teheran. Although I would keep Inciarte unless blown away. So if Teheran and Inciarte get us Sp[ringer plus…im all for it.
@ jkunkle: I agree 100%
If the braves picked up an overwhelming package that started with AJ Reed, and addressed several positions with young near ready talent I’d tell Freeman “thank you for your service” , then send him and Inciarte packing.
I really really hope Freeman stays. They have him for the next 6 years. They trade him I think attendance at Turner Field in 2016 will be a joke. I’ve been a Braves fan since 1991 and it’s a hard pill to swallow (the fire sale), but he is the face of the franchise.
Obviously Braves FO would do what’s best for the team – if they traded Freeman. I’d like to see him stay, and he is signed to a reasonable contract based on market growth, but they know our financial standing and the market better than we do. Everything can be escalated come the 2018 free agents, even if you don’t land any of the top-3. AJ Reed looks like an incredible replacement for Freeman, if they did decide to replace him, and Springer has looked incredible also at times. You get both of those, and you’ve really upgraded your power. Put them in with Swanson, Albies (OBP, speed) to go with Mallex Smith and you’ve got some deadly weapons if they come close to their potential (big “if”).
Almost forgot how much the DBacks overpaid for Shelby Miller.
lol, worst trade maybe ever. Swanson’s going to be a superstar.
You have to wait many years to evaluate that. Just because Blair and Swanson are hyped doesnt mean they will definitively be stars. However, this trade doesnt look to good from Arizonas perspective atm
The process of the trade is important too, not just the results. I can only think of 8-10 players that package wouldn’t have landed. It was a terrible allocation of resources. I love Shelby, but he wasn’t worth that package. Glad we got it, but still.
They’ll use him to move Swisher and have Bourn starting in CF to begin the year. If they move Inciarte they’ve taken this too far. Freeman, Teheran and Inciarte should be what the braves build around. With all the pitching they’ve acquired, Miller was expendable. The only reason Simmons was is because they acquired Dansby. Sure we have Mallex Smith almost MLB ready but he won’t be an Inciarte. Elite glove .300 hitter 20 plus stolen bases is hard to replace. I get it the braves are rebuilding and aren’t going to be contenders but this guy could hang around long enough for when the braves are contenders and could play a major factor in making us contenders.
Depends what the offer is. No one on the planet says no to a package of Springer, Tucker, Reed, Bregman & Cameron for…well just about anyone. That package is even bigger than the one the Braves got for Miller. If they traded Inciarte + Freeman for those 5? Braves will be going deep in the postseason faster than you can say Chipper.
Outfielders market is no where near as high as a young starting pitcher right now especially for one without power. So there’s no possible way the braves could pull off a trade like that.
There is no way the Astros trade those five at once. It would take an elite arm to get Springer, more elite than anyone the Braves have. Reed and Cameron and younger Tucker are going no where. Trust me….
this is being manipulated by the commissioners office. then the astros trade gonez to st louis. to defuse any harm done by the spying of data
Would a package of Soler/Edwards/Mckinney/vogelbach get Inciarte and teheran? Too light?
I’d say it’s probably a little light, but pretty close to a reasonable deal. Not outlandish or anything.
Can’t imagine that would do anything for the Braves. Vogelbach goes from blocked by Rizzo to being blocked by Freeman. I’d imagine Soler, Edwards, Mckinney, Eloy Jimenez, and maybe a Cease or Underwood. The control on Inciarte and Teheran will make them quite expensive for the cubs and packaged together will be quite a haul for the Braves. Eloy is still a ways away, Edwards would most likely slot in as the 5 or a mrp for the braves for now, and Cease and Underwood both have to prove a lot to even be considered MLB ready
Actually pretty even value if the Braves add Jim Johnson to the deal..
Can’t do that until July
Inciarte, Freeman, Vizcaino, Bourn for Springer, Altuve, Preston Tucker, Reed, and Bregman.
keep dreaming
Altuve? No way HOU trades him, and I don’t see ATL being interested in him when we have so many MI pieces already in play. Plus, what would HOU need with Vizcaino having Giles?
Why did the Yankees need Chapman? Boston need Kimbrel? Vizcaino is a strong cost controlled setup man in front of Giles. And Marwin Gonzalez with ABs can do all that Altuve has done.
Boston needed Kimbrel because their bullpen was awful.
Houston blew 19 save ops and was middle of the road in Holds, could use more than just Giles.
Congrats, that’s the first time I’ve seen Kimbrel, Chapman and Vizcaino all in the same paragraph. Vizcaino shouldn’t be in the same article as those two – and he would presumably not be closer with how much they gave up for Giles. And not everyone can be the humble shutdown set-up men once they’ve had a taste of the fame from being a closer, like Vizcaino has.
Seems like a somewhat high price to be paid in prospects for what would be a setup men.
Did you really just say the only difference between Altuve and Marwin Gonzalez is the at bats?
Yes, yes I did. The stats show as much. Did I dissect each angle no, but most commonly used stats show Gonzalez improving to be the same style hitter.
Vizcaino was not included as the purpose of a closer or the cornerstone of the deal. And my comparison was to the other bullpens, not specific to the closers.
Marwin Gonzalez is nothing like Altuve. Altuve is the best 2nd baseman in the AL. He isn’t going to the Braves for Freeman straight up. Luhnow would politely decline, hang up and ask his assistant to fly to Atlanta and get him some of that stuff the Atlanta GM was smoking.
I have seen both several times in person. Gonzalez isn’t on the same planet as Altuve. Your stats are wayyyyy off.
Lol! Hilarious trade offer. Springer and Altuve alone are worth way more than that. But we have to add Reed AND Bregman? Thanks for the laughs =)
Springer and altuve are both staying in houston, if you think otherwise, you need some serious psychological help.
Every time Ender’s name is brought up in reminded at how much the Dbacks overpaid. Dude is a solid player and should have been traded with 1 lesser prospect if even that for Miller.
Reading some of these responses, mostly from Braves fans, is hilarious! People really salivate over Houston’s prospects and for good reason. Where on Earth are people getting the notion that Inciarte would be more desirable for Houston than Springer? Springer has more power, better OBP, same amount of speed, almost the same defense, and a bit less contact ability…Inciarte isn’t a game changer for Houston. As for a trade involving Freeman, that may be interesting but why trade AJ Reed, who could produce similar numbers for a fraction of the cost? Doesn’t make much sense. A deal between these squads only goes down if a third team is involved to take Gomez and provide either Atlanta or Houston with prospects.
Nice response and true. I think most, like myself get caught up in the armchair GM game.
Springer isn’t close to be as good defensively as Inciarte. That said, Astros aren’t trading Springer for a downgrade in the OF. If Astros do a deal with Braves, it will be prospects for Inciarte. Astros aren’t the DBacks so it won’t be as long a list of good prospects as proposed.
thats where st louis comes in
You know Aj Reed will produce similar numbers over the same period of time how? Because that’s just silly to make such a bold assumption.
They get that assumption from the same place they got the idea Jon Singleton would be the answer at 1B.
Prior production?? Bold … Maybe…. I bet we will soon see though.
If Houston had Inciarte in 2015 instead of Springer, they would have won the division.
that would only be because Inciarte didn’t get hurt. If Springer didn’t get plunked by that punk Volesquez in July the Astros would have won their division.
Yup
I, personally, would love for Springer to come over to the Braves.
His K% dropped 9% last year, his walk% stayed steady at 11%, and his line drive% increased by 9% as well. In my opinion, those stats are all trending in the right direction, and they show so far that Springer is making all the right moves for continued success at the ML level…
I really don’t know what it would take to get Springer away from the Astros, but I would definitely start off with Inciarte, and I would even throw in Teheran, John Gant, and Ryan Weber for Springer and J.D. Davis
Overall the trade would be
Atlanta Receives:
George Springer
J.D. Davis (Astros #8-12 prospect, 3B)
Houston Receives:
Ender Inciarte
Julio Teheran
Zachary Bird (Braves #10-15 prospect )
John Gant (Braves #10-15 prospect)
Overall, the trade gives the Astros
1. A young, cost-controlled starting pitcher, in Teheran. He can be a true fixture in the Astros rotation for years to come, and has #1 type talent. As a solid #2, next to Kuechel, Julio just needs to remain consistent, and work down on his pitches.
2. A young, cost-efficient, and versatile 3 war capable CF/OF’er, in Inciarte. Nothing more is really necessary.
3. A fireball, hard throwing and high ceiling pitcher who can start as a possible #3-4 in 2017, with his ceilong depending on whether or not he can learn to command his pitches better. Otherwise, the Astros could decide to possibly put Bird in the pen, where he can cut it loose and eventually end up as a late inning dominant set-up man. Bird has 3 different fastballs. One being a hard, 94-99 4-seamer, then a 94-95 hard biting 2 seamer, and a 94-95 cutter that is just as effective. He then possesses 3 off-speed offerings in a pre-mature, developing change-up, a true 12-6 curve, and a wicked, hard slider. The slider has the most potential to pair with his array of fastballs, but if he is going to be a starting pitcher he has to learn to throw the curve more consistently for strikes, and he must learn not to leave up the change…If he can not figure it out, then his best bet will be to abandon the change-up, and to focus primarily on his 3 fastballs and his slider, while working in his curve at times out of the pen…Realistically, I could see Bird as the eventual set-up man to Giles making an absolutely nasty 8th and 9th pairing!!
4. When the Braves received John Gant, he was not much if a very special pitcher. Average would be a good word to describe him, but the Braves made some tweaks with Gant, and the results were phenominal!! Gant will eventually be a steady #3, possible #2 starting pitcher, with the #2 status as being more likely if the changes the Braves made end up showing the improvement is the real deal. He features a solid and steady 91-94 fastball, and he has a devastating, unhittable Vulcan change-up that makes hitters just shake their heads and look foolish. Also, Gant possesses an average curve ball that he sometimes has trouble locating, but when it is on, he gets great break and forces weak contact from opposing hitters.
The trade gives the Braves:
1. A cornerstone of the line-up, and solid #4 possible hitter behind Freeman, to provide him with some help and back-up, and Springer can also be a steady presence in the OF for several years to come.
2. J.D. Davis could end up being the Braves answer to their 3B problem quite soon. He just needs to work a little bit on his approach at the plate, and he still has some work to do if he is going to stick at 3B from what I have seen. Even with this being said, his power potential is incredibly intriguing, and he could ultimately be a great option batting 5th behind Mallex Smith/Ozzy Albies, Swanson, Freeman, and Springer.
Come mid-2017 the Braves line-up could be:
Ozzy Albies
Dansby Swanson
Freddie Freeman
George Springer
J.D. Davis
Hector Olivera
Tyler Flowers/(Enter F.A. signing)
Mallex Smith
Except for the Catcher position, and assuming Olivera does indeed hit somewhat, that potential line-up, from top to bottom, could potentially be incredible!! They have power, speed, contact, base running, doubles power, smart situational hitting, guys who can take walks,…etc..This trade would immensely help the Braves towards their goal of becoming competitive, and it would also benefit the Astros in their search for a young, cost-controlled #2 SP, a solid cost-controlled versatile OF’er, and more depth at SP and for the BP possibly…
I truly see it as a win-win…What are your thoughts guys?
And my apologies for the link, I’m getting I very excited…I mean the trade isn’t likely to happen, but the 1% possibility still intrigues the hell out of me! lol
Bravo for a very well thought out and researched reply. Here is my problem. Inciarte provides us with a CF option for several years invade Mallex bombs. I don’t think he will, but Inciarte is a good fallback plan. Not to mention he can play LF or RF if Olivera bombs or Markakis is traded. That’s too valuable of a piece to give up without a sure fire trade piece coming back. Even then it’s something that I would struggle to do.
As for JD Davis, I’ll pass on that. We’ve already got Alex Rikey tabbed as the future 3B so something that blocks him seems to be counterproductive. Not to mention we haven’t had success when it comes to getting 3B from the Astros…. Rio Ruiz? Adonis Garcia seems to be figuring things out and whereas I don’t think he is the long term answer I think he will be a decent stop gap until Riley is ready to take over.
Thanks, and while I tend to agree, I’m thinking Mallex will be sufficient in CF.
Also, JD Davis is pretty much the real deal, from my point of view. I could easily be wrong, but I just see soo much talent in him.
Riley is a great prospext, but it is no guarantee that he will stick at 3B. However, if he has to be moved, he does have the arm for the OF, and should be available right around when Olivera is getting too old.
Guys like Springer and Davis are not available often, and to me Davis is what we can hope for out of Riley, except he is close to ready and more of a sure thing. Springer is purely a stud, I’m definitely okay giving Mallex the CF duties when he is ready, and trading Markakis, and/or swapping out Olivera and Garcia until Davis is ready…
To me, it solves too many issues to not be a great plan lol…But there is the key phrase, “to me.” lol….
I think, personally, I just truly love the talent of Springer and Davis
Although, I am incredibly intrigued to see what Adonis Garcia can do in a full season…
He has absolutely tore up Winter Ball, and last year he had a pretty solid start..
People are just assuming he cannot sustain his production so far, but I truly would not be so fast to judge him…
I doubt anything comes from this speculation, and when it doesn’t Garcia very well could be the answer at 3B until Riley proves ready in about 3 years…
I’m not suggesting that there is no way he won’t be a stud. Like you’ve said he tore up winter ball and finished with 10 HRs last year at the ML level. So there is a very real chance he sticks, but he’s 30 so the odd of him playing at that level for a sustained period aren’t good.
I don’t know enough about Davis to have a logical opinion. I’ll have to look into him.
I’m really hoping that Garcia has an all star year in 2016. I’m just trying to temper my hopes with reality.
Well the reason people are assuming he can’t sustain this level of production is the fact that he’s 30 and just now showing it. That sort of trend usually doesn’t bode well for LONG TERM success. But he could be an exception. I certainly hope he is. I like Garcia and I think he will be more than capable next year to play everyday. I am just trying to temper my hopes with reality.
As for Davis I don’t know enough about him to be comfortable with that. I’ll have to look into him more. What level did he play at in 2015?
Sorry for the double post. The MLB Trade Rumors app crashed.
And my apologies for the spelling errors, stupid auto-correct changes everything! lol
I tried to catch as many as I could, but it still annoyed me to re-read over it, and see how many words and phrases I assumed were correct. I guess that’s what I get for assuming, you know what they say about that…haha
@ bravesfan88: I like the way you think.
Houston wouldent give up springer for anything, they would lose too many fans
The only way Houston moves Springer if to obtain a #2 or better SP with several years of team control left.
…make that “is” to obtain…
That’s why I suggested:
Braves Trade:
Inciarte, Teheran, Bird, and Gant
For
Springer and JD Davis
How about Swisher for Springer, Bregman, Reed, Tucker, Tucker, and Cameron.
I am guessing you’re just trying to say my trade was unrealistic…
What part of it, was that unreal??
I would go in to further explain my reasoning, but until you provide your reasons first or some form of legitimate argument, then in the meantime I will hold back.
Inciarte is equivalent to Springer, who knows which will be better this year and the next four to come? That leaves Teheran, Bird and Gant for who? A 22 year old 3B in “A” ball hitting .289 on a repeat. That is what is ridiculous. Add Bregman and the Tucker Boys and maybe it gets close to even.
Between Inciarte and Teheran there is 164 Million excess value over 5 years. Bird and Gant add another $36 Mil. excess value. Need to match that with $200 Million in value. Davis value 10 MIL, Springer value is $84 MIllion based on average WAR of 2.9, Inciarte averages 4.5 by the way. Thus there is over $100 Million of ridiculousness in your idea.
Astros have no reason to trade Springer and are looking to consolidate talent as they have 25-man and 40-man roster issues. Teheran doesn’t appear to be a big upgrade for Astros as he would be projected as their 5th starter and the Astros are trying to trade for someone better than Teheran.
Granted, Braves don’t have much reason to trade Inciarte either.
On what planet is inciarte the equivalent of springer? Springer has more hrs, rbi, sb in 200 less plate appearances. Plus his obp and ops are significantly higher. Inciarte has him beat in batting avg and has less strike outs. Even looking at this in the most favorable light for inciarte, they aren’t even close!
Light hitting outfielders who play quality defense are a commodity that is much easier to come by than a player like springer.
Are you just typing to see your name posted?
Agreed and they already have Marisnick for that role….
Your mistake is thinking Springer is equal to Inciarte and you think Springer is worth an average of 2.9 WAR.
Hahahahaha man you really don’t know much about baseball.
That would be “somewhat” of a reasonable trade but it would never happen because springer is connected to Houston fans too much.
And you know this how? Are you an unnamed source within the front office?
liarkaka heard from again. You should learn a little about math, simulation and projection.
Are you an unnamed source within the front office?
Inciarte isn’t going to go anywhere this off season. At least not without some blockbuster knock your socks off trade.
The Astros are just checking in on him but ultimately I think the Braves asking price will be too high for them right now. And it should be. Braves are in a position of extreme strength so why back down.
Braves are done with big trades this off season I think. The only thing you will see are some smaller trades (i.e. Swisher being traded during Spring Training). The FO will instead look to getting ready for Spring.
CJH, where are you? What’s your take on this rumor?
Houston fans….don’t know how attached u r with springer, would a trade with the mets work maybe? Pitcher montero and wheeler (back in July from tj) for springer work? Just curious…
The Astros are very attached to springer. Not just his ability and on field production, but what he brings to the clubhouse. When he was hurt after the HBP by the royals which sent him to the DL for 2 months, hinch wanted springer to still travel with the team because of the energy and enthusiasm. Players feed off of him. The Astros won’t trade him unless they are wowed by a trade.
The braves and Astros have tried to match up a lot over the past year and it never seems to work out. That said, if there was a deal the only players I could really see the braves taking interest in are springer and mcullers who is supposedly untouchable.
I really doubt anything comes of this.
Also really doubt gant is traded at all, the braves see his insane potential of coming up in 2017 not as a thrower, but a well polished pitcher.
My trade proposals that are fair for both teams..
some may think they’re undervaluing or overvaluing but.. I asked multiple fans of DIFFERENT teams so….. come at me cuz I can also pretty much back these proposals
And a thing to not is that these are overpay trades now or trade deadline trades assuming they rebuild value from injury or limited playing or anything..
FREEMAN:
Astros- Kyle Tucker + AJ Reed + Francis Martes+ lottery prospect // we also add $15 million
Red Sox- Rafael Devers + Anderson Espinoza + Travis Shaw// we add Banuelos/Jenkins
Pirates- Josh Bell + Austin Meadows + Reese McGuire + comp pick// we add $20 million
TEHERAN:
Astros- Kyle Tucker + Frances Martes// we add in Jenkins/Gant/Ellis/top 20 prospect
Rangers- Brinson + Ortiz// we add in similar to the Astros
Red Sox – Andrew Benintendi + Michael Chavis
*he can honetly be traded to any team for quality at the trade deadline*
INCIARTE:
Cubs- Soler + Jimenez// we add in Banuelos or something
Astros- Kyle Tucker + Francis Martes (you can see I like them)// we add in something
*many other suitable teams as well*
MARKAKIS
*ANY TAKER*
So far off on Teheran’s value.
Teheran excess value at 2.0 WAR = $44 Million
Gant excess value at 4.7 WAR through FA – $20 Million
Ellis excess value at 3.7 WAR through FA – $12 Million
#20 Prospect excess value at 3.5 WAR through FA – 10 Million
MLB Top 10 prospect = $36 Million
MLB Top 20 prospect – $32 Million
MLB Top50 prospect – $28 Million
MLB Top100 prospect – $20 Million
Thus, Teheran is worth a MLBtop50 plus a MLBtop100 by himself. Adding Ellis and Gant is worth two MLBtop10 prospects.
Inciarte has an excess value of $129 Million if he stays at his average WAR achieved.
Freeman is worth an Excess Value of $70 Million at his projected WAR.
Kyle Tucker is MLB56 with a value of $27 Million, very close to Aaron Blair.
Francis Martes is not recognized as a top prospect by the MLB but if he was at 100 he would be valued at $12Million.
Jorge Soler is valued at $14Million with a 1.3 projected WAR.
Hopefully you can do the math. Inciarte is worth the largest amount unless you project that even at his young age his production will be significantly reduced. Even if his output was cut in half he would be worth $65Million or two MLBtop20 prospects like for example Alex Bregman plus Kyle Tucker or AJ Reed or Daz Cameron. At his current average he is worth all four prospects from Houston.
Nick Markakis produced at 1.9 WAR in 2015 per Baseball America. Some say it was a bad year for him because of his neck surgery; however continued production at this level for the three remaining years on his contract would yield an excess value of $16.3Million. Markakis is worth in a trade the highest ranking non-top100 prospect of any team. For Houston that would be Feliz or Martes. Markakis is worth more than Jorge Soler by $2.6 Million or a Team’s number 50-60 prospect or a relief pitcher with a single year contract.
Martes is a top 50 prospect now. This just shows how little you know since you are obviously looking at outdated rankings. Feliz, yeah he fits the bill of “highest guy off the top 100” except he might make some lists.
Just looking at the MLB web site for Houston. I believe that is what is stated in my remarks. If Martes is a top 50 on someone’s list, it needs to be corrected.
I don’t think anyone has updated their top 100 lists yet. All of them are old. MLB, for example, reveal their list sometime later this month.
Actually never heard of Martes before today that was worth remembering.
Well I would suggest you look a bit more into prospects before proposing trades. He broke out this year and now regarded as a top 50 prospects by most sites.
Highly doubtful. Not on the mid-season list. But say he is the MLB#50 (He will not be) then he would have more value than Markakis, but he and Tucker would still be in the 50-60 total range and perhaps equal to Teheran alone so your recommendation is still ridiculous.
A fair trade with Houston based on the trades this season is Braves can send pitchers Julio Teheran (Better than Shelby Miller) and Jose A. Ramirez (Received in trade from Mariners earlier this year, better than Gabe Speir) to the Houston Astros for a package of Corey Dickerson (Not quite Inciarte) and prospects Alex Bregman, SS, #1 (not quite Swanson, #21 vs. #10) and Daz Cameron, OF, #3 (a little ahead of Blair, #53 vs. #61).
Look at BA’s rankings. He rated Martes 2nd in the system behind only Reed and ahead of draftees Bregman, Tucker and Cameron. Check the chat and you see Cooper said he is easily in his top 50. Fangraphs has said he will be in the top 50 as well. I believe Law has done the same. Sickels said he is the Astros top pitching prospect, but that doesnt guarantee top 50, so we will have to see on his list. I dont know if MLB does any chats.
Wait so are you saying that Markakis for Tucker or Martes or Soler would be a fair deal? I just now reread this part and noticed I overlooked that sentence.
also what was my recommendation? That you should look more into prospects? I still stand by that statement.
Lol now I’m starting to think that you’re just messing with me. Dickerson is with the Rockies. I guess you need to learn note about the big leagues as well.
wait a minute. Do the comparisons in the parenthesis mean that you are trying to replicate the Miller trade? Lol sorry but Luhnow is not Stewart. Stewart way overpaid and that doesn’t mean Luhnow will do the same….
So not only is your evaluation of players questionable, so is your ability to make trades.
Was reading some articles on Freeman and the Astros (was interesting in trade proposals) and found this post from you: Nick Swisher for Jose Reyes, Brendan Ryan [Rodgers] and Jon Gray; or Jose Reyes, Jon Gray, David Dahl and Ryan McMahon. This shifts $36 Million plus in financial commitments to Atlanta over three years (8, 23, 5).
Yup this is proof that your value method is absolutely ridiculous. If you think that’s a fair deal then there’s a reason why you’re not a GM…. (not trying to sound rude)
Are you really sayin inciarte is worth at least 3 top ten prospects in baseball?
Your value system is all screwed up.
Trades don’t work off equivalent value. Trades work off a need and a desire to get it done. The Astros don’t want a 3rd tier starter like Teheran for the price you seem to want for him. The Astros don’t want Inciarte when they already have at least 3 starting caliber OF.
Hell, the Astros 4th OF, Jake Marisnick, produced at almost the same rate that Inciarte did, according to fWAR, in a third the PA. And he was a better defender than Inciarte according to UZR/150.
Marisnick has 3.5 WAR in three years. A generous average of 0.9 per year. Inciarte has 8.9 WAR in two years. An average of 4.45 per year. So if you think this is almost the same rate. Marisnick is almost the same as Babe Ruth.
You realize Marisnick also spent time in the minors the past 2 seasons right (I would say Marlins rushed him a bit)? Inciarte is better than Marisnick, but serious add some logic instead of simply relying on WAR/average/$ value.
Also how does 3.5 in 3 years equal an average if .9 a year?
Your reliance on these WAR values as the end all is hilarious
Its the best available method. What do you have better?
It’s the best method? Yeah I’m sure that’s what GMs use…Try adding some logic to your argument. I mean is it useful? Yeah sure, but it shouldn’t be the only thing you use.
Inciarte and Teheran to the Cubs for Soler, Almora, Alcantara, Kyle Hendricks, Pierce Johnson and Zagunis or Szczur.
Alcantara and Szczur have almost zero value.
I see a lot of Braves fan salivating of Astros prospects. You don’t give away your future for 1 or 2 players. Luhnow wants to be GM for more than a year or two.
well said.
The astros spent 10 YEARS building their farm system. If you think they are going to throw away those 10 years for inciarte then you shouldn’t be commenting on this site.
Braves trading a player before they even play? makes sense