Cooperstown’s 2016 induction class has been decided, as Ken Griffey Jr. and Mike Piazza have been elected to the Baseball Hall of Fame by the Baseball Writers Association of America.
In his first year of eligibility, Griffey received a whopping 99.3% of the vote (437 of 440 ballots), surpassing Tom Seaver’s previous record of 98.84% (425 of 430) when the former Mets ace was inducted in 1992. Piazza appeared on 365 ballots for a comfortable 83% total that easily surpassed the 75% threshold for induction, though the star catcher has had to wait a bit longer to get his Cooperstown due. This was Piazza’s fourth year of eligibility, a wait that is generally attributed to a crowded ballot in recent years and, more scurrilously, unsubstantiated rumors that Piazza may have used PEDs during his playing career.
It’s fair to say that baseball fans and pundits have seen Griffey’s induction coming for three decades. “Junior” was the first overall pick of the 1987 amateur draft and he quickly lived up to the talent promised by his high school superstardom and impressive family pedigree. Griffey broke into the majors at age 19 and almost immediately developed into one of the game’s best players, winning his first Gold Glove (of 10 in his career) and making his first All-Star appearance (of 13) in 1990.
In his prime years with the Mariners, Griffey brought a combination of power and elite center field defense not seen since Willie Mays. His obvious talent, youth and media-friendly persona made Griffey into quite possibly the “face of baseball” throughout the 1990’s — an entire generation of fans grew up not just watching Griffey on the field, but also playing his name-branded video games and seeing him in commercials and TV guest appearances.
Griffey finished with a .284/.370/.538 slash line over 11304 plate appearances with the Mariners, Reds and White Sox. He’s one of the eight members of the 600-Homer club, and his 630 home runs ranks him sixth on the all-time list. While these amazing numbers were already enough to make him a surefire Hall-of-Famer, it’s also worth noting that Griffey may have been even better had he not battled some significant injuries later in his career, particularly during his tenure with Cincinnati.
Griffey becomes the first player drafted first overall to reach the Hall of Fame, which makes it ironic that he’ll enter alongside Piazza, the most famous late-round star in MLB amateur draft history. Piazza was so lightly regarded as a prospect that he was a 62nd-round pick for the Dodgers in 1988, only selected at all since Dodgers manager Tommy Lasorda did a favor to Piazza’s father, a personal friend.
From that humble start, Piazza blossomed into arguably the best-hitting catcher in baseball history. Piazza’s 396 home runs as a catcher is a record for the position, and over his entire career, Piazza totaled 427 homers and a .308/.377/.545 slash line over 16 seasons largely spent with the Dodgers and Mets. Piazza’s list of achievements include 12 All-Star appearances, 10 Silver Slugger Awards and the 1993 NL Rookie of the Year.
Falling a bit shy of enshrinement were Jeff Bagwell (71.6%), Tim Raines (69.8%) and Trevor Hoffman (67.3%). Full voting results can be viewed at the BBWAA’s website.
Congrats to Griffey Jr and Piazza with a special extra congrats to Griffey for unseating Seaver!
What 3 a holes didn’t put Junior in?
Three people that don’t deserve a vote.
You got that right.
There’s a lot more than three that shouldn’t be voting for anyone to the BB HOF. Most sports writers despise sports and think of themselves as serious journalists who just happened to be assigned to the Sports division just out of college; a minor delay on their road to a Pulitzer Prize a la Mitch Albom. They’re not sports fans and woulds need a cheat sheet to get through an interview with either Griffey or Piazza.
Marty Noble voted for Jr. and Jeff Kent…….. that’s it
There was another voter (forget who unfortunately) that only voted for Bagwell and Griffey
Or didn’t submit their ballot
Probably people who were angry that they could only vote for 10 and assumed Griffey would get enough votes, so they used his spot to vote for somebody like Trammel
That’s what I would have done. I am angry that Edmonds is off the ballot. And it wasn’t an assumption, Griffey was guaranteed to get in. It’s just really unfair that Edmonds is out just because he retired in the same year as one of the all time greats. In 2012 Bernie Williams got over 5% of the vote and he was not nearly as good as Edmonds, but his ballot was a lot weaker. Something needs to be done about this.
Yea, no there isn’t adding more than 10 spots to vote would be make it worse. And we would get more guys like Biggio in the Hall. He isn’t an HOF guy to me. He was never the greatest player on his team, never struck fear into me. And worst of all was an accumulator. He only got in because he had 3,000 hits. Or others that aren’t one of the greats in the game.
You act like accumulating stats is a bad thing. He was good enough to remain a starter in the majors long enough to accumulate those stats. Longevity and consistency deserve to acknowledged and remembered just as much as high peaks.
And BTW, Lou Gehrig was never the best player on his team. Should he be excluded from the Hall for that reason? Never struck fear in me? What does that even mean? Kevin Mitchell (89-91) and Juan Gonzalez (96-98) were the most feared hitters in the game for three years during their careers and neither isn’t anywhere close to being a HOFer. That argument just doesn’t work.
You just described Derek Jeter….
So you’re condoning the fact that Junior didn’t get unanimously voted into the hall, and saying it’s unfair someone else didn’t make it? It’s unfair he DIDN”T get 100% of the votes.
If anyone got the shaft based on the class they retired with, it is Carlos Delgado. The fact that he only had one year in the ballot is absurd….
There are a couple writers who believe that because guys like Babe Ruth and others weren’t unanimous hall of famers then nobody should be. So they won’t vote for somebody just for that reason. It’s weird.
Probably the same intellectually challenged individuals who didn’t feel that Greg Maddux was worthy of being a unanimous selection.
I mean what logical reason could someone have for NOT putting someone with the credentials of a Griffey or Maddux on their ballot?
Here’s one that Karkat brought up. They knew that Griffey was getting over 75% and they used it on a guy that they thought needed the vote.
Exactly. Who are these clowns and why didn’t they vote for the kid? Gimme one good reason why Griff shouldn’t be the first ever unanimous inductee and I will shut up forever. Guy is a legend and probably the best player any of us have seen for a full career. What a joke.
One good reason = Because he is a Hall of Famer either way and his vote total doesn’t matter in the least. Even if he had gotten 75.1% of the vote, he would still be a Hall of Famer right this second. Seems like a good reason to me.
Here’s the small caveat though… Voting isn’t chess or checkers. Voting is a personal evaluation of what you think of players. The fact that it’s turned into chess/checkers and made a mockery of the HoF is the problem here. You vote for who you feel are the 10 best candidates. You submit funky ballots that don’t make sense or refuse to vote guys in without good reason, you lose your right to vote and it should go to someone else.
There’s a bigger issue though… And this is the reason I will probably never return to Cooperstown.
Best home run hitter of all time and probably the best overall player of all time? Barry Bonds. Not in the HoF.
Best pure hitter of all time? Pete Rose. Not in the HoF.
Pitcher with most Cy Youngs (if not the best ever)? Roger Clemens. Not in the HoF.
Whether you blame the players or blame the writers, this is making a mockery of Cooperstown. You won’t see the NFL hold out Lewis.
I’m sorry for two of my favorite players of all time in Griffey and Piazza that I hardly feel like a congratulations means anything until they fix the system.
all those players you mentioned cheated, pete rose should probably be in the other two, no. they cheated at the game, not just beating on it. you will never convince me that pete rose played any less then 100% at anytime during his career despite his beating. you also will never convince me that those records and awards of clemens and bonds are legit. therefore players with BS stats deserve to get the shaft,. you shouldn’t be rewarded anymore then the millions of dollars they earned during the career. voting them into the hall will just legitimize cheating. what will be the penalty for cheating then, if you let them in I mean?
Maddux should have been unanimous as well… Its just further proof the system needs an overhaul.
We need to get off our high horses and get back to evaluating talent, not people.
Ill play devil’s advocate.
The entire second half of Griffey’s career was plagued by injury. From 2001 thru 2010 he only had one good full season. If guys like Hank Aaron, who put up better career numbers and were more consistent over the course of a career did not receive 100% of the vote why would Griffey?
Personally I think Maddux has a better argument for the first 100% vote getter than Griffey does.
Logical
Piazza’so slash better than Griffen Jr’s. Nice Mike. Congrats.
But Griffey knew how to play defense, he probably would have been better than pizaza if he played catcher
That doesn’t make sense but being you are likely a Seattle fan from your nick I’ll give it a slide… This time.
Curious to know which 3 voted no.
Congrats to both guys, very deserving.
Piazza is the only person on Planet Baseball ever to say a bad word about Vin Scully, and it was very nasty indeed — so whether it should nor not, that behavior could enter into the votes of some sportswriters. The truth is Piazza burned some bridges before he came to them and consequently is not very well liked in some circles. I am actually slightly surprised that he got the votes, all considered.
With Piazza in all the cheaters should be allowed. Piazza and not Rose, it is laughable.
Why would anyone want Rose to be in?
Well, since it is called the hall of fame, don’t you think the best players should be in it?
please point out the “permanent ban” clause of the MLB rules that Piazza violated. I can certainly point out the on Rose did.
Schilling, Bonds, Clemens, Mussina and Edgar all got BIG boosts, which is excellent. Hopefully they all make it soon.
Edgar Martinez and Moose should get in, but it’s not likely for either. Schilling, Bonds and Clemens don’t deserve inclusion, Schilling because of lack of performance outside the playoffs and Bonds and Clemens for cheating, so it’s good to see that they got such little boosts in voting. Just a 7% bump. Seeing how few years they have left, it’s doubtful that any of them make it.
Do you think Clemens would not have had a HOF career if he had not taken banned substances so as to recover from injuries a bit sooner? Whatever he took, I can guarantee that it didn’t increase the velocity of his FB or help him locate his pitches better. Actually, I don’t think any substance should be banned; it’s not as if the average stiff could take a dose of something and immediately hit .350/.390/.680. It requires a lot of work, dedication and focus to do what Bonds and Clemens did, regardless of what they put in their own bodies.
Your take on Steroid use is laughable…if you think that it does not help a pitcher or hitter in more ways than healing faster maybe you should do some research. You are correct in saying that just anybody cannot do PEDs and get on the mound for the first time and become Cy Young…that is not how it happens. But it does make you stronger. It will add life and speed to your arm and swing. To say it didnt help his fastball is irresponsible at best. If you had gap power before, you might get a few extra dingers or at least put more life on your hits. Bonds and Clemons were great….they didnt HAVE to do them to be great….that is why people hate this. They were at or near the top of their games but wanted the limelight that came with being God Like in the game. You cannot legalize it either because of the slippery slope it creates.
your post is at best laughable and at worse stupid, that’s exactly the point is they were HOFers before they decided that wasn’t enough and CHEATED. they puffed up their stats and they didn’t need too. they were HOFers before, now they are jokes and do not deserve to be rewarded further by being voted to the HOF. if that is allowed to happen then Pete Rose should be put in automatically, and they should legalize steroids because it dosn’t matter if you take them. you could continue your career, earn millions, and eventually get voted into the HOF. Where is the penalty? where is the punishment? these selfish a-holes have already disrespected the game enough by earning millions by cheating, now you want to reward them further by induction into the HOF? I don’t think so
What’s laughable and stupid is relying on hearsay and myth to substantiate something that hasn’t even been done based on the Of course, that’s a bit predictable coming from someone who doesn’t hesitate to engage in fallacy. You’re ASSUMING that taking (so-called) PEDS will increase your bat speed more than conventional workouts, put velocity on a FB and while you’re at it, dump a quart of the stuff in your crankcase to prolong the life of your auto engine. I hope neither of you vote.
“…based on the scientific method”.
“CHEATED”? are you serious?
If we’re going to use that as a measure, the HOF would be virtually empty! You must belong to the NBBFA (Naive Baseball Fans of America).
how did schilling not accomplish anything outside the playoffs? 80 Career Bwar which puts him around Jeff bagwell and tom glavine the best strikeout to walk ratio of all time, if thats not a HoF resume I don’t know what is
There’s also this little thing we used to care about back in the day called the “eye test”. When Schilling took the mound, teams matched aces with him. When he took the mound with a decent team behind him, he always performed.
Wins upset me. Not throwing punches at Phillies fans (I’m a Jersey boy right down the road) but I feel like anyone that played for teams like Philadelphia for an extended time during long bad stretches is immediately a no-go for the HoF. Wins is a useless number to look at. 6 Time all star. 3 times he came in 2nd in Cy Young voting. 4 Top 14 MVP votes (2 top 10). Led the league in whip twice on opposite ends of his career. Threw more innings then any pitcher throws these days including Clayton Kershaw, David Price, Felix Hernandez or anyone else (2 straight seasons over 250 in his mid 30s during the “steroid era”). Recorded over 300 strikeouts 3 times. If he’s not a HoF pitcher, I don’t know I can vote any of today’s pitchers in. In Arizona, he averaged nearly 11 k/9.
I just don’t get some people… They hate the person so much they can’t respect the player/talent.
Yes runner up for Cy Young 3 times is a lack of performance. The 20 shutouts, 85 CG, 3000 k, and 79 career WAR are evident of nothing more than a playoff pitcher….
Oh no, 3 people didn’t vote for Ken Griffey, Jr.
THE SKY IS FALLING.
Exactly. It’s not like the janitor would have spent extra time shining Griffey’s plaque in the future if he had gotten those extra three votes.
The amount of vitriol people are carrying because he didn’t get 3 extra votes is silly at best. Childish at worst.
Congrats to Jr. and Piazza. Well deserved!
Sure like to know what 3 “baseball writers” didn’t think Griffey belonged enough to put him on their ballot.
Would have liked to see Rock Raines and Bagwell get in. Both are deserving. Hoffman should have gotten in, but he will go in next year.
Glad to see that Bonds and Clemens have little chance of getting in.
Raines and Bagwell didn’t get enough support because too many people voted for Griffey despite the fact that you become a HOFer with 75% of the vote. You don’t get a special room or extra polish on your plaque for getting 99% of the vote. If Griffey had gotten left off a few more ballots in favor of Raines or Bagwell or some other deserving name then maybe we could celebrate more people today.
You are complaining way too much about Griffey.
Then stop reading my comments. No one is forcing you.
By your logic, noone would vote for Griffey because they expect others will instead. That is a very flawed way of thinking
Umm no.. the voting doesnt work that way. Its not that people ran out of room, but that many voters didnt believe there were ten worthy candidates.
450 total ballots with a max of ten selections. The total votes cast for players would have a max of 4500. There was approx 3500 player votes cast. So the average ballot returned had just under 8 players on it.
Griffey may have been the greatest ever if he didn’t average 50 missed games in the final 10 seasons of his career. The 3 people who didn’t vote for him should have their votes yanked.
As for the rest of the ballot, seems about right. Some guys like Raines, Bagwell and Hoffman set themselves up for the future.
Bonds, Clemens, and Sosa is a different conversation for a different time.
I personally wouldn’t vote for Edger.
Schill and Mussina should get in at some point, just not this time around.
First 11 years in the majors: 70.1 WAR
Last 11 years in the majors:: 13.0 WAR
It’s crushing to see just how much those injuries took on him. But more amazing is that he kept coming back.
“The 3 people who didn’t vote for him should have their votes yanked.”
Then why do we have voting at all? Griffey is a Hall of Famer and I guarantee you he doesn’t care that he was “only” elected by a higher percentage than anyone else in history. Seriously he got a higher percentage than ANY OTHER PLAYER IN HISTORY and people are still not satisfied. If he gotten 100% of the vote, people would have still complained that he deserved to go in by himself or that his name should have gotten more than one check. It is just ridiculous.
those 3 voters deserve to be kicked out griffey deserved that 100%
How can a league who has an AWARD NAMED AFTER the player for being the best player at your position in the NL not be in the hall. Seriously, a joke.
Because the people who create the awards don’t vote for the Hall of Fame?
Griffey’s the first 1-1 draft pick to make the HOF? Guess that’s just another sign that you can’t always rely on even the top picks!
The draft hasn’t been around forever and in most opinions it is just difficult to factor all the future growth and development (as well as injuries) of young upside players. The projections aren’t perfec for sure.
Look for Chipper Jones to soon become another 1/1 to make it to the HoF.
Wish there was an edit feature on these posts.
Should say: young high upside players. and the projections aren’t perfect for sure.
Chipper will make it if he hasn’t. Thought there was 1 more
Those 3 griffey voters aside, anyone else find it appalling that Hoffman wasn’t first ballot? Rivera will be a first ballot and he and Hoffman are pretty darn close. He will get in next time for sure but still…
There are voters who still view relievers as failed starters, which is how it used to be.
Actually, Hoffman is a failed shortstop.
Hoffman’s mistake was not entering to Enter Sandman… Everyone knows that!
But seriously, with you 100% except sorry, Mo was way more dominant then Hoffman and there’s a definite ERA/WHIP discrepancy between the two and Mo pitched his whole career in extremely hitter friendly Yankees Stadium. This is coming from a Sox fan, who feels like I should cut off a finger for praising Yankees. (Just kidding… kind of.)
That being said: The game has changed and a large majority of the voters are older guys that haven’t changed with the times. Since 1973, we’ve added teams, instituted a DH, overhauled the draft process, started interleague play, started international scouting on a massive scale, added not 1 wild card, but 2, gone through and come out on the high end of the steroid era, etc.
That all happened in 43 years! Relievers are a way of the game now and as the Tigers prove year in and year out, a very important part of that game. Same with DH’s (like my personal hero Big Papi and my 3rd all time favorite player Edgar Martinez… love the way that guy hit). Now, I think you should have to do something really special as a DH or reliever to get in (500 HR for Papi, 600 saves for Hoffman should suffice), but Hoffman clearly was not only a Hall of Fame player, but a Hall of Fame person. If there’s 1 person our silly character clause should benefit, its Trevor Hoffman. And its not. That’s disgusting.
You know who probably doesn’t care about the 3 people who failed to vote for Ken Griffey, Jr?
Ken Griffey, Jr.
He’s in. He doesn’t care.
Bagwell next year, he needs to get in, along with Hoffman and Ivan Rodriguez
No way Pudge makes it first ballot. Way too many links to PED’S.
3 nos were probably from 90 year old dudes who just submit a blank sheet every year because they don’t like where the game has gone. In which case, they should give up their right to vote.
I’ll trust the 90 yr old “dudes” before I trust a 22 yr old just out of Journalism School who’s pissed because he’s stuck in the Sports Department and not working on publishing his first Pulitzer.
10 years of baseball writing is a prerequisite
Check that. I’ll trust the 90 yr old “dudes” before I trust a 32 yr old, 10 yrs out of Journalism School who’s pissed because he’s stuck in the Sports Department when he thought he;d have at least two Pulitzers – one for a best seller and the other for investigative journalism – by now.
If a guy is spending 10 years writing about baseball, he’s either Milton from OfficeSpace, or he desires to write about baseball.
I can, at a pinch, try and understanding the reasoning of leaving a “sure-fire guy” off a ballot just so there is an extra vote for a fringe guy.
But the ballot was not loaded enough to justify that.
I sincerely hope those who didn’t vote for Griffey Jr are publicly ridiculed for their idiocy.
Not to vote for a fringe guy. Its to stop Griffey from 100% for the sake of that
Not loaded enough? I thought there were at least 18 names on that list deserving of inclusion or at the very least had a decent argument.. When you are limited to 10, then a guy like Jim Edmonds, who has very similar stats to Duke Snider, gets the shaft just because he retired in the same year as Griffey.
We all set the bar for what we think a HOF Player should be, very differently. That’s life.
I think in the last few years, and will definitely be the case going forward – people are starting to realize that generational comparisons are all but redundant. We either start to admit that there are people in the Hall that shouldn’t be, or we accept that this generations such and such, just isn’t far enough ahead of their stylistic compatriot from yesteryear.
I should stress, the “loaded” comment is based on comparison of talent that has been up for election the last few years – it’s been a logjam that’s opened up to an extent.
Everyone’s line between HoF and HoVG is indeed different.
It was plenty loaded. You had a top-10 shortstop, an MVP top-20 second baseman, the best DH ever, the best NL 1B ever, who also won an MVP, a nearly-600-HR first baseman, nearly-500-HR first baseman, the best offensive catcher ever, best position player post-expansion, best pitcher post-expansion, an 800-steal/2600-hit leftfielder, a 600-HR rightfielder, a 500-HR/~2700-hit rightfielder, a 600-HR centerfielder, an 8-time GG/393 HR centerfielder, an MVP-winning .300/.400/.500 rightfielder, three 400+ SV closers and two others of the top-thirty starters ever. .
Bagwell, Piazza, Raines, Schilling, Walker, Trammell, Bonds, Clemens, Sheffield, Sosa, Kent, Edgar, Wagner, Smith, Hoffman, Edmonds, Griffey, McGriff, McGwire is an incredibly deep pool of talent, not even taking into consideration Nomar Garciaparra, who was for the better part of a decade the answer to the question “Nomar or Jeter?”.
Edmonds even fell off this ballot despite basically being Duke Snider, a deserving Hall of Famer.
David Eckstein, Jason Kendall, Garret Anderson and Mike Sweeney got 8 votes between them.
And Griffey Jr. wasn’t unanimous.
Come on, people.
Why does unanimous mean anything to you? He got more votes than any other player in history and people are still complaining that he isn’t #1 enough. It is just stupid.
The fact that 3 so-called worthy baseball writers didn’t think KGJ was HoF worthy on the first try even though hes arguably the best CFer since Mantle and Mays, is terrible. I’m not the guy says “Griffey deserved to be 100%!”
I’m the guy saying that there is no logical reason to leave the best player on the ballot off the ballot.
Unanimous or not isn’t going to keep me awake at night.
But it doesn’t make it any less ridiculous that X amount of people didn’t case a vote for him.
It’s not an avocation for 100%, as much as it’s a “who in their right might DIDN’T vote for him?”
Are you seriously questioning Kendall….
He was by far the greatest catcher the Pirates had between 1996-2004… Haha!
Those three writers are going to get a visit from the baseball version of GamerGate.
Who voted for Eckstien? Thats a better question then who didn’t vote for Griffey.
Someone that though Eckstein’s career deserved a little recognition that didn’t hurt anyone else in the long run.
Would you really feel better if no one voted for Eckstein instead of 2 out of 440? I think that says more about you that those voters.
No Barry….. No Care!
You think a roid user like Barry should be in? Get out!
what has Tim Raines got to do ?
1 year left!
come on
440 ballets and he was on 437 of them. He made history right there. Question… What three people left Griffey off their ballet??
Piazza is the gateway for all the steroid heads
Maybe those who didn’t vote him feel that Griffey didn’t need their vote to make the HOF (which is obvious) and they wanted to vote guys who they feel are HOFers but finish near the bottom of the ballots (McGwire, Sosa, etc)
I just hope they had 10 names on their ballot.
Writers typically throw a vote at a player who treated them well. I haven’t seen final votes but I am sure Randy Winn got a token vote from someone
Ausmus, Castillo, Glaus, Grudzielanek, Hampton, Lowell and Winn got shut out. Griffey got elected, Hoffman got 67%, Wagner 10.5%, Edmonds 11 votes, Sweeney 3, Eckstein and Kendall 2, and Garret Anderson 1. Garciaparra also fell below 5% with just 8 votes. Everyone else, all of the returnees, got 5%+, even Sosa.
Not much love for Nomar Garciaparra. Falls off the ballot after 2 years. Wrist injury killed his career, he was right there in the conversation with Jeter and ARod for a while.
How in gods name did Hoffman not get in, why do closers have such a hell of a time making the Hall? Lee smith should’ve been in years ago and Hoffman should’ve made the vote, same for bagwell and Raines who should be in by a long shot, this voting system drives me crazy, they should be in the hall based on numbers and they should be in, excluding bonds and Clemens and etc.
They didn’t get in because the Hall limits the number of names per ballot. If there are 18 names that are deserving on a ballot, most are not going to get 75% of any vote. Not everyone uses the same criteria as you. I think Hoffman should be in the Hall, but he was not in the top 10 guys on this ballot in my opinion. Same with Alan Trammell and Lee Smith and Mike Mussina. Another person with the same baseball knowledge as me could easily put those four guys on a ballot and leave off guys like Larry Walker, Fred McGriff, Barry Bonds, and Roger Clemens for different, but similar reasons.
I just think the way people get elected needs to be changed or something because so many deserving names don’t get in and it’s mind blowing, Raines, Trammell, Smith and Jack Morris are more then deserving but were left off and I personally don’t see how you can deny that group of players for 15 years
I agree and disagree. If there was never a discussion on whether someone should or should not be in the hall of fame would it truly be a hall of fame? It should be difficult to get into that group.
Jack Morris was not deserving.
I agree with you 100%. What is frustrating to me is that someone like Rivera who is almost the exact same pitcher is going to be 1st ballot and well over the required 75%. It’s absolutely no knock on Rivera or the Yankees, but the media attention alone gives Rivera that honor over Hoffman.
Ballots that are not submitted do not count against anyone unless they changed the rules. If Griffey missed on 3 of 440 ballots that means that three a-holes submitted ballots and did not check Griffey’s name.
The Trammell situation is terrible. How he is not in is inexplicable. How he did not even get 50% is beyond comprehension.
Trammell’s career WAR is just about the same as.:
D E R E K J E T E R.
Look it up. And look up Lou Whitaker, who has a HIGHER WAR than both, but did not even get enough votes to stay on the ballot.
Jeter will get in on the first ballot easily, despite never winning an MVP. Yes Jeter had a better career because of the playoffs (ONLY because of the playoffs)… but how is one 1st ballot (likely) and other rejected 15 straight times?
Trammell’s career WAR is FIFTY PERCENT higher than Jim Rice. Not 10% higher. FIFTY PERCENT!
… But Trammell failed 15 times. Why? Because he played for the Tigers and not the Yankees and he did not literally do flashy back flips, even though he was a superior defender. There is no other logical explanation. NONE.
The HOF balloting is a great indicator of how little many sportswriters really know about baseball or for that matter, any other sport they’re writing about. I know little about nuclear physics but with a few references, I can write about some important physicists. There can be only one explanation for having Rizzuto in the HOF but not Trammel (or Whittaker and Hiller for that matter) HOF voting would be more reliable if they polled every fantasy league. Writing about the game is a lot different than following the game.
I’m just curious as to why Griffey Jr was never tied to PEDs. He hit nearly 60hr in back to back seasons and led the AL in HRs 3 straight years. HR totals he put up are rarely reached now days. If he was putting up the same numbers as Sosa, Bonds etc and the others are all linked but Griffey isn’t? How does that work? Cause if he did that without the aid of PEDs I can’t imagine what he would have done with them.
Unlike Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire no one ever had any evidence on him. In his entire career there wasn’t even a whiff of controversy. But during their careers all three of Sosa, Bonds, and McGwire had some issues dogging them. Personally I’d think even if there was a hint of PED usage around him, someone would have tried to jump on it.
I just have a hard time digesting the idea that guys like Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Anderson all used PEDs to jack HRs and out of that group Griffey is the one and only that didn’t but put up the same numbers?
Its a bitter pill to swallow, but even in a 2014 survey from SB Nation, “Regarding the percentage of players who are currently using PEDs in MLB, the 143 players polled estimated that 9.4% of current players in MLB are taking some type of PED.”
That’s after the ban. The sad truth is, if Canseco’s estimates, the mitchell report, the anonymous 2003 testing that identified guys like Ortiz, etc. are right, (and he may be a lot of things, but not a liar) its like 50% or more of the league that was using. I’m not for banning the era. I’m also not for singling out only guys that shatter records.
We need to just have a plaque/video that discusses the controversy from 1985 to 2005 or so and discuss how major league baseball has now made it so that those cheaters will have a harder time getting by. But as guys like Taylor Teagarden admitted, its very hard to get caught if you time your cycles properly.
I’m with you it stinks something rotten and I wish it didn’t happen, but it did. I’m all for punishing the players, but I don’t think this is how. Too slippery of a slope.
I don’t think he is the one and only one and I’ll even admit the question about how clean Griffey Jr. was does tug at the suspicious part of my brain. But I have to wonder a few things. The biggest thing is if there was a perfectly even playing field, who would reign as the best of all time?
It’s a more interesting question than people tend to realize. Bonds was considered one of the greatest when he was on the Pirates and that was before any questions about cheating touched him. Assuming he did in fact use PEDs, would he still have been the home run king if he spent a career clean? If McGwire wasn’t on Andro would Maris still be the king? How about that hearing before Congress, had it not happened would we consider Palmiero as quietly one of the best ever? But for all of these questions, there’s too many variables.
But the final difference between Griffey Jr. and several others there is slightly more than hearsay evidence or just hearsay evidence against other players. There isn’t any against Griffey Jr. and I’d imagine someone would have tried to take him down.
I agree 100%. The reports came out surrounding Jeter’s trainer and HGH. If I had to guess, I don’t think Jeter is that dumb. His personality is at least a good chunk of why he was so beloved. He wouldn’t get involved in that nonsense.
But as a few others have said already, unfortunately nothing surprises me anymore. Peyton Manning? Derek Jeter? David Ortiz? Roger Clemens? Barry Bonds? Tom Brady in a different way. I mean come on… All these guys have now been accused in some form of cheating or being connected to cheaters. Most of which is hearsay, anonymous reports and questionable inside tips (McNamee and now this trainer and Charlie Sly).
I’m throwing in the towel… I just can’t be mad about it anymore. Its staining our sports going on these witchhunts and we are all responsible. The players for often being guilty. The owners for letting it slip by. The media for refusing to stop asking questions and reporting on it. Us the fans for not stopping talking about it. And its not going away anytime soon. This post I’m writing right now is part of a problem and we just can’t help ourselves!
And by the way, yes, I do believe without PEDs Bonds and Griffey would have probably ended their careers much closer together. I still think both would have been in the 600+ club and I do think Bonds probably would have beaten out Griffey in the durability department down the stretch either way. But man, I wish I had a clean answer (no pun intended).
Griffey never bloated up like Bonds did and many people have come to accept that Griffey was limited by his injuries. Griffey started regressing when players would normally start regressing as opposed to Bonds who was jacking up 40-50 HRs late into his thirties.
Was it regressing or him coming down off PED usage? Like I mention above…. If every other guy smashing 50 HR was tied to PEDs I have a hard time buying the other wasn’t.
Even Jeter recently got linked to PEDs. Not saying by any stretch I think Griffey or Jeter are guilty, but the fact remains there’s no way at this point to know other then a clear admission.
Remember, even Alex Rodriguez has never failed a drug test. He’s admitted guilt… twice.
Jeter’s trainer was supplied with HGH. Jeter’s team had among the highest number of known HGH users (Arod, knoblauch, pettite, etc.) many of which were “classy guys” so that doesn’t fly. Point is, if you had to say possible or impossible, you’d have to say possible. If its possible for Jeter, its possible for anyone (again not saying Jeter is guilty!).
Jeter was only mentioned because it was his trainer that was linked. Not Jeter himself.
But nothing would surprise me anymore.
I wonder if the 3 voters who didn’t vote for Griffey simply forgot that he was on the ballot.
For those who don’t know, in his autobiography, Piazza admitted he took PED’s (but not steroids) before they were banned from baseball
I have Zero issue with Piazza being in the Hall. I’m glad he’s in. But I’m wondering if there are any voters who did not know this. And for those who did, what makes him a HOFer over Bonds and Clemens who we all know are being left out for what Piazza also did?
I think part of it is the need for scapegoats. We can never remove all the steroid users from the baseball record books just like we can never remove the gamblers from the time surrounding the Black Sox scandal. But here we have Bonds and Clemens. the biggest and most prolific names during the steroids era, basically standing guilty for the entire era.
I go back and forth on letting Clemens and Bonds in. They were a fact of life and the truth is they were never suspended by the league. So the bbwaa being the moral authority is silly. But it will be a debate that will go on for a long time.
The whole HOF process is a disgrace. There shouldn’t be a cap on how many players get voted in every year. Getting rid of a cap, or at least expanding it to 15-20 players, would ensure that players who could be unanimous (Griffey, Maddux) actually do get 100% of the vote while other guys still get a chance. The reason for not getting into the Hall shouldn’t be because we feel that these guys are more qualified than you (when you are qualified enough but other guys might have been better). If a guy doesn’t get into the Hall it should be because he doesn’t get enough votes/support from the writers rather than the writers being limited to picking 10 guys.
I’m totally with you start_wearing_purple. I go back and forth and back and forth but the truth of the matter is, Harrison (NFL HoF) used HGH admittedly and is in the HoF. Peyton Manning has stuff flying around now (valid or not). It’s not going to change his induction into their HoF. Ray Lewis probably is responsible for someone’s death and is a Hall of Famer. I can go on and on. Why in baseball do we have this “morality” clause and who’s judging (outside of the writers) who’s immoral acts get punished and who’s don’t. Ortiz should be the first DH in the HoF if we are ever going to let one in. Will he get in? I don’t know. But it will be the “steroid controversy” surrounding him in ’03 that will likely be the difference and how much people buy into his response.
Bottom line is, a huge part of the league is guilty. I honestly believe it to be well over the 50% mark during the 90s. That’s just my opinion. So the guys throwing to Bonds were juiced and the guys swinging at Clemens’ pitches were juicing. I believe it was a pretty even playing field (of cheaters unfortunately).
I don’t think we have enough information to let it impact our voting. We are all just upset (rightfully so) that guys like Bonds and ARod and Clemens broke records that are dear to us. But it’s time to get over it. Maybe in 2017.
The MLB should have let Steve Harvey announce who got it…. Eckstein would have had a chance
Congrats to both great players! One could only imagine what an injury free Ken Jr. would have done. Both of these players are totally class individuals. Griffey should have been 100%
Both players are deserving… that being said. It is a bigger joke that Bagwell didn’t get in this year than it is Biggio didn’t get in on his first try.
Bagwell should make it next year.
I have such a differant view on the whole steroids thing, in my opinion, yes it is cheating, if you wanna bulk up do it naturally, don’t take supplements you know are banned.
That being said, we could all take steroids right now, and be the worst baseball players the world has ever seen, the steroids didn’t help bonds, mcgwire, Sosa etc.. make contact, didn’t give them the natural ability to play and hit, yes they hit the ball better when it was hit but they still preformed, Clemens was still able to put spin and movement on his pitches but not because of steroids.
I’m not sure how I feel about keeping them out of letting them in. Like the others above I’m 50/50 about the whole things, but numbers don’t lie and that’s what the voting should be based off of. It’s sad to see that the all time home run king and the pitcher with the third most strikeouts in baseball history won’t be in the hall of fame.
Billy Wagner 10.5%? Joke. The guy was a monster who had the misfortune of playing for 2nd rate teams in low-market cities. Had he been a Yankee, he’d have been first ballot.
Agreed 100%
Mike Piazza does not belong in the hall. Good hitter terrible catcher.
Piazza gets in on fourth try but should never be elected. And great players like Andre Dawson took 15 try’s, Tim Raines. The baseball writers don’t have a clue.
I want to know who the two clowns were that voted for David Eckstein.
I think now that Piazza is in it will open the door for other suspected PED usuers. Here’s a thought, put them all in the same year, Bonds, Clemens, Manny, Pallmero, and the rest.
I wouldn’t want you on my jury if I was wrongly accused …
yeah these two deffinattly HoF players but there are a handful of others who need to get in.
Trammel, Bagwell, Raines, etc.. and players who should be in but may never be in because of the steroids all through the league at the time even though they probably saved baseball in America. (Big-Mac, Sosa, Bonds, Clemens)
The system for HoF players is bad and needs thrown out,
Congrats to Ken and Mike you do deserve it even though the system is bad.