The White Sox have interest in free agent outfielders Alex Gordon and Yoenis Cespedes, but only on a deal that would promise three years or less, Bob Nightengale of USA Today reports on Twitter. That’s obviously a far shorter commitment than the veterans are looking for.
Cespedes has yet to be tied closely to any particular team despite coming off of a season in which he slashed .287/.337/.604 and hit 35 home runs. Most recently, we heard that the White Sox and Orioles were looking like the most landing spots. But Baltimore is said to have no interest in nearing the $140MM price tag that we predicted here at MLBTR at the start of the offseason. And it obviously doesn’t sound as if Chicago does, either.
As I explained in a profile of Cespedes and his free agent case, it was and still is difficult to peg a specific landing spot for the Cuban native. That’s true, in large part, because there are two other premium corner outfielders available in Gordon and Justin Upton, as well as another high-end power bat in Chris Davis.
As for Gordon, who we predicted to top $100MM over five years, it seemed at one point that he could come off the board before the holidays. It’s not immediately clear whether the delay is a good or bad sign for his earning capacity, but it’s certainly possible to imagine that he’s fielding interest from multiple teams. And then there’s the involvement of the Royals, the only team he’s ever played for. Gordon himself said recently that the Royals are still in play, despite reports that their most recent offer was not competitive.
The organizations I listed as possible Cespedes suitors still arguably look like strong possible fits for either player. That includes the Angels, Giants, Tigers, Cardinals, Orioles, and White Sox. But those teams, and possibly a few others, appear to be engaged in something of a staring contest with the players and agents across the table — to say nothing of the other teams that hold veteran trade assets.
That stand-off seems unlikely to be broken by any three-year arrangement at this stage of the offseason, though it is certainly possible to imagine such an offer holding some appeal. Dangling a sky-high AAV and opt-out sweetener may ultimately be competitive, but that’s probably only an option that these players would consider after exhausting the possibilities for a longer deal.
Jeff, any word on the money offered by the Sox in these deals?
Doubt anything has been offered formally. This strikes me as jockeying for position in the media.
Seems like Gordon would just go back to KC if he’s looking at three years. I guess you could imagine some big AAV offer (3/80 or something?) with an opt out to land Cespedes, but have to figure he’d only move to something creative if a max deal isn’t there.
So what’s their plan by saying this, if they don’t necessarily mean it? What’s the advantage?
It isn’t clear that this is coming directly from the team. Could be another team, agent-based, etc. Even if it is from the team, who knows why? Maybe they just don’t want to be used to drive up bidding. Or maybe they really want to make that position known but don’t want to say it directly to an agent/player. Maybe someone owed the reporter a favor, or wanted to earn one in the future. Or made a mistake in letting it go.
You never know, really. Information flow is often hard to track. The incentives can be strange and hard to match up. It’s a crazy little world, really.
*facepalm*
If that’s the case, they should beat it.
So then they’re not genuinely interested then. Gotcha.
My thoughts exactly. Gordon would rather then go to KC and Cespedes isn’t crazy to accept anything less than 4/5 years
I can see someone taking a one year with next years free agent class. Cespedes doesn’t have a pick attached.
Span and Fister to the Sox would make sense if all were healthy.
I’d guess that Fowler (4/60) and Desmond (2/25) would be a better investment by the White Sox at this point……solves 2 problems (maybe 3….leadoff hitter)
What universe do you live in where the White Sox have a problem at the leadoff spot?
Adam Eaton’s .361 OBP was second among AL leadoff hitters. And he’s compiled a nifty OPS+ of 121 over the last two seasons.
Probably the same universe that assumes you can sign an elite slugger for only a three year commitment.
Perhaps, but how much would the acquisition of those two players actually improve the White Sox enough to be postseason contenders in 2016 or viable World Series threats during their current window that has core players like Chris Sale, Jose Abreu, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton under favorable long term deals for the next 3-6 years. David Robertson with his 3 remaining years, along with Todd Frazier, Melky Cabrera and Brett Lawrie who are tied up through 2017 might also be factored in, as well as a pre-arb impact pitcher like Carlos Rodon and near MLB ready right-handed starting pitcher Carson Fulmer.
It seems to me that with all this in mind, as well as owner Jerry Reinsdorf’s (turns 80 in February) imminent sale of the team within the next 5 years or so, the club would be better served by adding more impactful players through FA and/or trade than the 2 players you mentioned.
I guess because they don’t have a SS right now, and I believe that Desmond will come back to form and be a huge asset for whoever signs him. Also, if they need an OF, but they won’t pony up for the top tier, Fowler offers good defense, good speed, and some pop…..as well as (supposedly) being a “good clubhouse guy”. Sox have to decide “How much they’re willing to spend”, then they can chase a player. Maybe they don’t need an OF, but they certainly need a SS……and Ramirez just doesn’t add much at all.
The White Sox may have interest in Ian Desmond at shortstop but likely only for a 1-2 year deal until their own #1 prospect, SS Tim Anderson is deemed ready for prime time. Anderson will be debuting at AAA in 2016 following a stellar season in AA in 2015. Desmond would also cost the White Sox a compensatory draft pick, currently the #27 pick they gained when FA Jeff Samardzija signed with the Giants last month. The White Sox are more likely to re-sign their own former SS, FA Alexei Ramirez this offseason for a cheaper and shorter term deal than what Desmond would command.
CF Dexter Fowler also comes with draft pick compensation and will also likely sign a deal in the 3-5 year range for less than what the 3 premium corner OF’s will receive. He is not nearly the impact player the White Sox are looking for which would be another power bat for the middle of their batting order. Fowler is actually a below average defender in CF based on dWAR metrics and the White Sox already have a younger, cheaper and higher WAR lead-off man and CF in Adam Eaton who put up better power numbers than Fowler did in 2015 with the Cubs.
Imo, the White Sox will add at least one more premium bat at the corner OF position through FA, trade…or both. They will also sign a short term option for SS like Ramirez, or possibly even Desmond if he considers a shorter term deal as is being reported following his subpar 2015 season. Finally, I look for the White Sox to acquire another veteran rhp pitcher to balance out their southpaw dominated rotation, likely via a trade from among the surplus of MLB players on their roster who might become expendable following one of the newer additions…player such as Melky Cabrera, Avisail Garcia, Adam LaRoche and John Danks, along with some of their remaining prospects besides Tim Anderson and Carson Fulmer.
Span, if healthy, is a good obp guy and would fit nicely in the #2 spot. Personally, I am hoping Cabrera/LaRoche/Duke can bounce back and give this team enough to make a strong push after reading these comments about only hoping for a 3 yr deal. It seems Sox may miss out on the top 3.
honestly span and desmond is whats best for them, eaton isn’t really a good defender in center, and even if u want to keep him there span is an upgrade in right then as well as a high obp guy for ur boppers in abreu, frazier, and desmond, who are all also right handed so he helps balance out the lineup. anderson then can be packaged for some bullpen help which is desperately needed.
Eaton had a bad year defensively in center but has graded out above average prior. That is not uncommon for any player to see a huge turn out of nowhere in their UZR. It usually isn’t indicative of anything unless it appears there is something physically wrong with the player (which there isn’t in this case). Eaton will be fine in center, most likely.
While Scott Boras continues to try and trump up a market for Span, there’s really no reason to believe he’ll be good ever again considering the injury he sustained and the age he’s at. If the White Sox sign Span, it should be as a backup.
Imo, Denard Span would be a better fit for the Cubs than the White Sox.
I think the Cubs would be better served by having Jason Heyward remain in RF and bat further down in the batting order. If Span shows he’s healthy enough in his January 8th workout, he just might prove to be their short term answer in CF and as the Cubs lead-off hitter, with Ben Zobrist remaining as the ideal #2 hitter.
The Cubs would be wise to offer Span an incentive laden 1 year contract, perhaps with an option year that might kick in based on games played or plate appearances. This should give the team enough time to assess the progress and readiness of top CF prospect Albert Almora as their potential future core player at the position. Almora will be making his AAA debut in 2016 and could be ready for prime time later this season or by sometime in 2017.
The problem with this is that the type of injury Span had factored with age doesn’t lend itself to a high probability of prolonged health. It’s more likely he doesn’t have any effective seasons left, let alone next year.
soxcess1 said:
“It seems to me that with all this in mind, as well as owner Jerry Reinsdorf’s (turns 80 in February) imminent sale of the team within the next 5 years or so,”
Joe Ricketts is one of the 400 wealthiest men in America. He is the personification of the wealthiest 1% in this country. He is turning the Cubs, Wrigley and the surrounding area into profit making machine.
It is sickening to see the Ricketts and what they are doing to baseball.
It looks like it is all positive from a Cubs fans perspective, but when he starts buying championships, then things will not look so good got the entire league. He will turn the Cubs from the luvable losers into an extension of the corporate prick.
Jerry Reinsdorf does not have a fraction of his wealth. Jerry has sons, one of whom ( Michael Reinsdorf) is President of the Chicago Bulls and has owned minor league baseball teams. The younger generation of Reinsdorfs are more than capable of taking over the White Sox from Jerry down the road.
As far as mold man Ricketts, that dude can ruin the competitiveness in Major League baseball unless there is a salary cap and a revenue sharing agreement that will be enforced.
Everything I have read on the subject has indicated that Jerry Reinsdorf will be selling the White Sox and retain the Bulls, who’s president is his son Michael.
Reinsdorf had 4 children, 3 son and a daughter. His eldest son, David, passed away recently and Michael is the only one directly involved with his father in the sports business. Whether for inheritance purposes, preference or both, Michael will purportedly remain involved with the Bulls while the White Sox will be sold in the not too distant future, likely (imo) when the current window of the White Sox existing team friendly contracts of Chris Sale (with team options) and Jose Abreu expire following the 2019 season.
Come on, Artie. Bite the bullet and pay the luxury tax. Grab Gordon for 4/75. Nava/Gentry is not gonna cut it.
It would be worth it, just for one season with weaver and wilson coming off the books next year
Nava batted .312 and started most of the year on a World Series Boston team. Ya never know.
A number of players on that 2013 team had years they have not been able to duplicate–things may just have come together for Boston that year.
Yes and obviously cespedes or Gordon would be significantly better, but I’m just saying there’s a chance Nava puts up a decent season
If you’re looking for somebody to repeat a career year, that they are going into their third year removed from, at age 33, then your expectations may be a little high. He’s hit .249 since 2013 ended.
White Sox have any prospects left to get Cargo? He’s only a two year commitment.
they might have to give up tim anderson or somebody else
The Rockies price would probably start with Fulmer, not Anderson. The Rox already have a better SS prospect in Rodgers and another young one in Story that is nearly ML ready.
rodgers is like 5 years away, he has nothing to do with them wanting a SS or not. they most likely give story a crack, but most see him needing to be moved off SS. i think he most likely ends up at second when they trade lemehiue.
Why would the White Sox possibly want to mortgage what’s left of a mediocre enough farm system after already dealing 3 of their top prospects (#2 Frankie Montas, #5 Micah Johnson and #14 Trayce Thompson) for third baseman Todd Frazier along with two more lower level ones for second baseman Brett Lawrie this offseason…especially for an outfielder like Carlos Gonzalez who is still owed $17M in 2016 and $20M in 2017 before becoming a free agent in 2018.
It would make much more sense for the White Sox to invest in a premium free agent outfielder, particularly Yoenis Cespedes who comes with zero draft pick compensation, for a comparable annual salary at a few more years (or potentially less with a player opt-out) instead of meeting the likely demands of the Colorado Rockies, who would surely request some package that would either start with their current #1 prospect in shortstop Tim Anderson or with #2 rated right-handed pitcher Carson Fulmer.
Because they have already started mortgaging it. It would make less sense to keep part of a mediocre farm instead of using it to build a big league winner. They might as well go full Angels/Giants and trade all of their prospects for a chance at a few good years in the bigs and maybe even a championship or two. They are a big market that they can rebuild much more quickly than the Twins or Rays.
So 2 years of 30 year old Carlos Gonzalez makes more sense at $37M and the cost of multiple young MLB ready players or top prospects than what a same aged Yoenis Cespedes might cost with no compensation at a comparable annual salary and perhaps 3-4 guaranteed years with a player opt-out or 5-6 years without?
Add in the fact that ‘Cargo” is just coming off a serious injury, that he has put up half of his offensive numbers in Coors Field and would be transitioning to a new league which might require an adjustment period.
In the meantime, Cespedes has been healthy, with the exception of 2 months in Boston has hit in pitcher-friendly home parks (Oakland, Detroit and New York-NL) and has played primarily in the A.L. except for the past 3 months of 2015 with the Mets. Add in the fact that Cespedes figures to be very comfortable with the White Sox given their long history of Cuban born players dating back to Minnie Minoso and playing alongside his friend in Jose Abreu and perhaps a re-signed Alexei Ramirez.
It’s a no-brainer that Cespedes would be a far better match with the White Sox than Carlos Gonzalez might be. If the White Sox preference was for a left-handed bat then Alex Gordon would also make far more sense than “Cargo” would.
You aren’t getting Cespedes for less than 6 years, $22-3m per. That’s the problem for the White Sox, apparently. If that were not a problem, there would not be a post like this, and we would not be having this discussion. And an opt out would only make it worse from the White Sox point of view.
Farm guys don’t always make it dude. Also the White Sox farm system is ranked in the bottom 4-7 in most of the sites I’ve seen. Why bet on the future of the young guys who are said to have less upside than the rookies of other teams when you’re trying to go all in now.
Those particular farm guys (Anderson/Fulmer) that was being referred to are top 100 prospects. The system as a whole is underwhelming but the two names mentioned aren’t bad at all.
soxcess1……Opt-Outs do not offer any protection for the team…..it’s actually the opposite. If the player performs well, they opt-out and go for more money. If they “fall off the table” and suck, the team is stuck with that contract. It’s truly about “How much money is committed”, and CarGo has $37 mil committed, and Cespedes will have about $140 mil committed……..especially if he declines at all.
In fact, player opt-outs can be an effective measure for teams, as well as the obvious ones for the players themselves.
The primary benefit to the ball club would be that it provides the ultimate incentive for a player to perform at his best up until the opt-out is reached. He would then have an opportunity to make more money, as was the case with Zack Greinke this offseason.
It can also be an effective tool for a team that has an abundance of depth in their minor league system at the same position of the signed player. One of the reasons the Cubs may have offered Jason Heyward 2 opt-out clauses in his recently signed 8 year deal was because of top young MLB outfielders like Kyle Scwarber and Jorge Soler, as well as highly rated prospects such as Albert Almora and Billy McKinney who may be ready for prime time within the next couple of years, if not sooner.
I agree somewhat soxcess……and while it’s true that it is an incentive for the player to play “at his best” for those first years, it doesn’t really help the team incorporate the young guys unless the opt-out player does perform well and chooses to opt out. If there was a Mutual Opt-Out Clause, where both parties have to agree or the deal is nullified, teams would certainly be in a better position. Remember……a 7 year deal is a 7 year deal, unless the player opts-out. That “spot for your prospect” could be blocked for a much longer period than you want/need. The Cubs are a perfect example, but Almora and McKinney haven’t exactly “blown the top off” in the minors, and neither looks to have the impact that Bryant, Russell, Soler and Schwarber should have. I see them both as excellent trade bait for a stud SP like Carrasco or somebody like him.
Tell what what non pitching prospect has done anything for the WSox? Prospects get you fired. They are to be used as pawns in a chess game because the Sox suck at picking non pitchers. Where’s our Solera where’s our Bryant we’ve been picking on the too 10 for a few years and we got Beckham, the guy who broke his foot, his name escapes me. Mortgage the future? We are not the Cardinals, Dodgers or even The Twins who know how to draft and trade. I like the Frazer deal. Who knows if Montes or any of these guys would be any good. Give me the proven veteran anytime. Rodon was a good pick, Fullmer may be an even better pick, pitching good picks. Sale and Rodon are proof. The rest suck. Trade the shortstop or play him. If you sign a top 3 outfield put him out there, you can carry his bat. You got 45 million off the books in 2017. Plenty of money to spend on the big 3. Tired of potential. Give me results now. Danks, LaRoche are gone after 2016 anyway. We need to win now. We need to hit the ball out of the park and need a real manager.
I don’t buy this at all. Why would the White Sox put this out right now? This maybe just for Alex Gordon seeing that he is 32 years old already, but the Sox know what these guys are looking for.
I myself found that quite weird.
Well, the Mets said something similar, and were deemed out of the running the next day. In Cespedes’ case, offering him a 3 year deal is basically saying you’re not that interested, I think they are.
Do the sox really expect one of those guys to take a 3 year deal? Someone’s gonna give them longer term, no question.
Wonder if they’d go longer with Justin Upton.
I think, out of all the prime options, Upton IS the guy who might take a 2 or 3 year deal, and re-enter the FA market at 31…….the other guys would be hitting mid-30’s after a 3-4 year deal, so they might prefer a 1 or 2 year deal right now.
That’s crazy, considering he’s likely to get a 6-8 year deal this offseason. A 28 year old with his numbers doesn’t settle.
A 26-year old Jason Heyward, who was the premium free agent outfielder available this offseason, signed an 8 year contract with two potential player-opt out windows, including the first after 3 years of his deal WAR numbers would suggest that Heyward is a superior corner outfielder to Justin Upton, especially defensively, so why would this not also be a possible scenario in signing the latter?
Upton is a far superior hitter to Heyward, and while not elite defensively, he is above average. He’s two years older than Heyward, but an 8 year deal pays him to 36. That still includes the bulk of his prime. It’s doubtful he gets less than 6 years in any deal, and it’ll probably be more. Offering 3 is being purposefully insulting.
Opt outs don’t matter because they favor the player. If they use it, it’s because you didn’t want them to.
He’s not “settling” for a 3 year deal, he’s actually “extending his career”. He could come back after 3 years and still sign a 7 year deal, making his total contract length 10 years from today……It’s not at all crazy to think that a 7 year deal would be given to a 31 yr old player with Upton’s skillset……..but it’s doubtful that any team is going to give a 28 yr old a 10 year guaranteed deal. If they do….He should take it now!
Maybe the White Sox should just sign Upton to a 10/$245 million contract, and be done with their search for many years to come. Problem is….they still need a SS too……right?
Cespedes and Gordon make the most sense for the angels, If they can’t get either one of them, go after Parra
First off, the White Sox are one organization that keeps their actual intentions close to the vest and insists that the parties they negotiate with do likewise. They rarely leak information to the media unless it’s purposely designed to “excite” their fan base or drive up the price of a player to hinder a division rival. With that in mind, I would not take reports by Bob Nightengale, or any other pundit, with anything more than a grain of salt.
Secondly, Nightengale is inferring in his tweet that any free agent contract that the White Sox would engage in with either Yoenis Cespedes or Alex Gordon would “promise three years or less”. Even if based in fact, this does not necessarily preclude the team from offering a longer term contract that includes a player opt-out clause, one the White Sox have used in the recent past. As fans might recall, this tactic was used when they signed FA Albert Belle to a then record contract back in 1996. They also agreed to an opt-out into arbitration with the international free agent contract given to Abreu two offseasons ago. Structuring any potential FA contract to defer money from 2016 to the following year would also make sense for the White Sox with the Adam LaRoche and John Danks deals still on the books for one more season, unless they can move either or both prior to a signing.
These guys are looking for six years. If the report is true, the White Sox probably made their names mud with those agents. Given their normal operating procedure I doubt the report is false. Moreover, I doubt there’s any chance any of these agents will take calls from the White Sox for the remainder of the offseason. They might as well have called up and offered a non-roster invite. 3 years is beyond insulting in all of these cases.
I might remind you that Jason Heyward, the premium OF who was available this offseason signed an 8 year contract with 2 potential player opt-out clauses. Much of Heyward’s contract dollars are sensibly deferred because the Cubs will have more TV revenue in future years and the player opt-out was particularly smart in his case because of his relative youth and the Cubs depth of top young system outfielders that include Kyle Schwarber and Jorge Soler at the MLB level as well as Albert Almora and Billy McKinney in the minors.
The White Sox would be wise to sign one of the premium corner outfielders still available to a similarly constructed deal. The primary reason for deferring money would be because of the Adam LaRoche and John Danks contracts that are still formidable for the upcoming season but will be off the books at it’s conclusion. The opt-out would be a potential incentive piece in the case of signing either Justin Upton or Yoenis Cespedes because of their age and expected length of contract but less likely for 32 year old Alex Gordon who might be negotiating his final MLB deal.
You keep mentioning opt out clauses like they are beneficial to the team. They are not, because they are player options. The White Sox don’t want to give more than three years because they are worried about regression. If that happens, the player will not opt out. So that doesn’t make a commitment of larger than 3 years any more attractive to the White Sox. Nor does it change the fact that if they truly did this – offer only 3 years – they cemented that they can’t negotiate further. They’re done.
It’s moot though, because now they can’t sign those players. They’ll have to mortgage the farm and trade for Carlos Gonzalez if they’re going to compete next year. Short of that, It’s another 75 win club with 82 win upside. Honestly, they might not even have enough to get him.
Everything they’ve done this offseason has been in vain because they weren’t willing to do what was necessary to see it through. They’re not close enough to contention that a non-elite bat will help. If they weren’t willing to give out a $100 million contract, they should have started a full rebuild.
It’s doubtful the White Sox would be “worried about regression” with a player like Justin Upton or Yoenis Cespedes at 28 and 30 years of age, especially when offering each an opt-out clause after 3 years, just as they did with Albert Belle in 1996 (opt-out after 2 years) and Jose Abreu two offseasons ago (opt-out into arbitration. If they didn’t offer these choices to those players. it’s likely they may have signed elsewhere.
Albert Belle put up 2 productive seasons with the White Sox, one of which was historic and comparable to any that his HOF teammate Frank Thomas ever accomplished with the club. Belle took advantage of the opt-opt, signed another FA contract and was a dud with the Orioles.
It remains to be seen what will occur with Zack Greinke and the Diamondbacks, but he will get paid big time regardless of his production. Time will also tell whether the Dodgers were wise to offer the opt-out in the first place or better served signing the ace to a conventional deal.
Note: Albert Belle was a “dud” with the Orioles more so to due to a career ending degenerative hip injury than actual performance. He was forced to retire after two seasons of his 5 year deal FA deal with Baltimore at age 34 but was kept on the Orioles 40-man roster for for the life of the contract so the team could collect insurance on him.
That Belle opt out could have gone the other way. He had an injury, it wasn’t that he regressed. The injury was degenerative (not caused by one incident). If it happened a year sooner, he’d have played out that entire contract with the White Sox, most of which at limited capacity.
It’s moot to even discuss what you are talking about. The White Sox are not offering five/six year deals with opt outs early. They are offering 3 year deals on 6 year players like this is 1992. It is maddening how poorly run that organization is. They try so hard to be smarter than everyone else by not making market commitments to players and all it’s gotten them is what, one playoff birth since that 2005 world series? Every year they go into the season with a solid core and no chance. This year won’t be any different unless that alter the way they act on the free agent market. If it isn’t already too late, that is. Offering Cespedes 3 years is a slap in the face. If it were me, I wouldn’t take their calls anymore.
One of my initial points was to suggest that the authenticity of the 3 year contract maximium might lack validity based on the history of the White Sox and how they conduct their business so “close to the vest”. It’s also possible that any “leak” coming from the White Sox could be a “smoke screen”.
While it’s true the White Sox have never dished out a contract higher than the total value of Jose Abreu’s 6 yrs/$68M deal two offseaon’s ago, they have signed many players to multiple year contracts that have far exceeded 3 years, including their current ones to Chris Sale, Jose Quintana, Adam Eaton, David Robertson and, of course, Abreu’s. They also reportedly offered international FA pitcher Masahiro Tanaka a contract of at least 6 yrs/$100M in 2014.
Time will tell, and very likely within the coming days and weeks, how accurate the speculation in this article was. Until then, it’s entertaining for the fans to read and offer their own comments and reply’s to the ongoing debate over these free agents and their eventual destinations.
All front offices with brains should want to have as little tied up in players as possible, for the 2018 free agency.
That’s a long time to wait for some clubs that want or need to win asap. There’s no guarantee that some of those potential premium free agents won’t sign extensions, become less appealing due to a falloff in production or sustain a career threatening injury prior to 2018.
im glad theses owners are finally taking a stand…. all these jackasses giving out stupid contracts is ruining baseball!
I agree also, it is way out of hand, and you can blame the agents for that.
If you were an agent and stood to make a 4% commission on any contract your client signs you might think twice before saying such a thing. (lol)
Hahahaha, true dat.
Yet the players have been watching their slice of the pie shrink.
How so???
Players slice of revenue was down to 40% in 2014,
tangotiger.com/index.php/site/article/team-payroll…
sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/players…
Compared to say, 52% in 2008.
sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2008/12/200…
The players (as a group, not the top guys) aren’t getting near what they got of revenues, as a percentage.
I tried to post some links but I think they were probably eaten for spam type protection. Anyway, the players slice of revenue in 2014 is estimated at around 40% (see Tom Tango and Yahoo), where according to Bob Manfred it was around 52% in 2008 (Sports Business Daily), from 2004 to 2007 ranged from 51% to 55% (peaking at 63% in 2003).
Top guys aside, players as a group appear to be getting less they have for quite some time, and less then their contemporaries (as a percentage of revenue) then other major professional sports in America.
Well, you do a bring up a good point and if I did own a team, I would try to have a profit sharing system and my goal would be to break even every year in the sense that I have enough money to all my employees, players, bills, loans, and so on and I would try to make it as equitable as fair as I could. However, I can’t even afford a brick at Camden Yards, so it would only be a pipe dream. However, it would be a better business model than is currently instituted.
I’m not against profit for the owners (although large public subsidies should really stop) , just noting that the concept that the owners need to take a stand against some large contract concept (hat is allegedly ruining baseball somehow) when the players as a whole are getting notably less (percentage wise) seems off base.
What if the White Sox were only interested in signing one of them to a shorter term deal? Wouldn’t letting that fact leak, embolden other teams to only offer shorter terms too? Maybe not 3 years, but certainly less than seven. Opt outs only work for the player. The player will only stay past if they are not worth the contract. This may be a step towards getting the players to become more reasonable in their demands. The fair opt out would be for the team to also be able to opt out, not just the player. If the player is willing to bet on himself, he shouldn’t have a problem with it.
Your idea of a “fair ” system is something I have been thinking about also . My idea is to have teams who give an opt out clause then make the next year an option. That way a player get a chance to increase his income after a great year while an organization is only forced to pay a “low performing” player for one extra year. Or to only give an opt out clause within 2 years of the contract’s end.. I understand that a player would not agree to something like this, but it could be used as a possible framework. Maybe something like having that option year only kick in if some performance levels are not met (# of innings, at bats, etc).
White Sox disappoint …. Anybody really surprised. kW is probably lookin at his baseball card collection when d span was w the twins and getting all excited. Rick Hahn solo all worked up wanting permission to trade Tim Anderson and Quintana and eaton for CarGo … And please take laroche too so I can save my job
What the hell, Reinsdorf. Fine, be mediocre the rest of your life.
Makes sense to me, all these players want opt-outs, just give em 3 year deals instead.
I’m pretty sure almost every team is interested in Cespedes or Gordon on a three year contract. If they were willing to agree to that to begin with than their wouldn’t be so much delay
I would be happy with the sox just signing Austin Jackson. Probably the best defensive guy out there even if he’s not elite, but putting him at CF and Eaton in Left would be big defensive improvements at 2 positions for cheap. Then they should still be able to afford Desmond. Call up the A’s again and try to work out a trade for Reddick (Avi, Sanchez, and Laroche (eating all of his contract)?) and we’ve got a ballclub.
I think Orioles are primarily focused on pitching right now. Outfield market isn’t going anywhere fast. Especially with Davis.
My prediction will be that Orioles will sign SP or trade for one first. Will offer Davis less time and money, (if nobody is still interested in Davis). If he refuses, then they go after another outfielder.
I think a trade for an outfielder is more likely. If they sign Davis, they will have prospect 1st baseman walker that needs to be traded. He wants to play and with Trumbo and/or Davis, it won’t happen in Baltimore. He will get some good return for an outfielder.
If your only gonna offer 3 years then why are we even talking about the whitesox? Noway either of those guys signs for less then 4 years
I think there are scenarios where it could occur, but it seems rather unlikely.
I think that teams are saying that just because the Cubs (arguably) overpaid and Heyward got what he wanted does not mean every team is going to open their vaults for a OF.
The order of OFs for the White Sox in terms of ‘want should be’:
1)Cespedes: Hits for above average and power; above average glove as well. Biggest charge into the locker room, dugout, and stands, possibly friction in the clubhouse (but only if the manager demands anything and you know that Robin demands nothing); no draft pick compensation.
2)Upton: Average glove reportedly, but is 26 and numbers should get better both with experience and playing half his games in a hitters park- Comp pick, but if you are going to give up a pick, get a younger guy.
3) Gordon: experience and good glove, and impact for about 1-2 years, but likely waning in about 2-3 years AND have to give a comp draft pick to a division rival..
Span Fowler and Cargo are not even near this list, just because Span played well against the Sox but that does not make him worth a contract IMO. Fowler will cost way to much, and Cargo is also not worth the prospects to give up to get him, not for what would appear to be a short term solution..
1 and 2 should be switched. The only reasons Cespedes would make more sense are (1) no draft pick compensation, and (2) if he takes a much cheaper contract.
Upton (28) has shown every bit as much power as Cespedes in their careers up until Cespedes’ breakout last year, and it’s not like Upton was a slouch in the power department. He was still an above average power hitter playing half his games in SD. He also has been significantly better at getting on base throughout his career.
Upton, on a contract like Heyward’s with multiple opt-outs, should be their number 1 priority.
I really do think the Kazmir deal is going to take the one year deal thing even further. No baseball player holds the commitment that a LeBron James does to keep signing 1 option deals but a 3 year deal with a one year opt out is a great idea for players to get some financial security in terms of market value while still being able to get a contract more to their liking next offseason.
This doesn’t make any sense. None of these guys will sign for three years. Gordon, at 32 is the only one possible but he should age ok. Uptown should be looking for 7 years with opt out options after 3 and 4 years. Cespedes should be looking for 6 years. Maybe the leak was meant for Gordon but KC could add the 4th year and beat the total on the 3 year deal. The only thing that makes sense is that this report is wrong. We’ll see if Hahn comments on it tomorrow.
Nothing about it suggests it’s going to happen. Just the team’s interest level. And I would be shocked if Hahn said anything publicly of any substance on this.
If the White Sox don’t get one of the big 3 outfielders, after the reports that they were the leading candidates, Hahn will be eaten alive at the fan convention.
You’re absolutely right in assuming that Rick Hahn would ever speak directly on this report, whether true or not. I still have doubts as to it’s authenticity regarding the White Sox and the 3 year max contract to either player, especially Cespedes.
I can easily see owner Jerry Reinsdorf, at his age and likely sale of of the team within 5 years or so, signing off on a long term contract to Cespedes with a player opt-out or with Gordon on a conventional 3-4 year deal.
Unlike some owners, Reinsdorf is a great baseball fan who follows his team religiously. He often grants his GM permission to go over budget if it likely means a chance for the postseason or an opportunity for a World Series. Reinsdorf has purportedly initiated such moves himself. It was he who allegedly went to Frank Thomas personally back in the 1996 offseason, following two years of labor strife that may have cost his team a chance for a championship, and asked his slugger which player he would rather have alongside him in the batting order, impending FA Albert Belle or Barry Bonds, who the Giants were trying to peddle and get out from his then record FA contract from the 1992 offseason. Thomas surprised Reinsdorf by choosing Belle and Reinsdorf obliged him by giving the enigmatic slugger a then record deal with the infamous player-opt after two seasons. As fans might recall, Reinsdorf also did this to spite the other owners who bent to the the union demands when the ‘hawkish” White Sox owner wanted more fiscal sanity, including a possible salary cap implemented, for the “good of the game”.
I think that, if any of them would sign a 3 year deal, it WOULD be Upton, since he could re-enter the FA market at 31……still a very reasonable age, and he might sign another 7 year deal. (31-38 isn’t unheard of for a player with Upton’s skillset). Gordon needs at least a 4 year deal…..IMO….
The slash line that was given for YC was his slash line while he was with the mets. His full season slash line is .291/.328/.542
you forgot his .870 OPS for the 2015 season……that’s an important one.
Cespedes seems like a better fit with the Angel’s. Gordon likely goes back to KC on a 3 year deal.
The Sox always put on a good show and say “we tried” they never intended to sign any of these 3 guys. Always looking for the cheap solution and we get burned. Dunn, LaRoche. Couldn’t of unloaded Roberts when he was claimed by the Yankees and the would have freed up 15 million, LaRoche and Danks come off the books at the end of this year, that’s almost 30 million. That’s 45 million they’d have to pay Cespedes,Gordon or Upton. Top free agents will never be signed by these clowns. Williams has to go, he is holding the strings. Hahn is a puppet as long as Williams is there Rinesdorf loyalty to a promise he made to Williams mother ” to take care of him” is killing us. 2005 is over. If we don’t do something the Cubs will own this town forever. We can’t draft a position player to save our souls. We got lucky with Abreu, Cubans like The Chicago connection. Cubs got Maddon and we are still stuck with Mr. Nice Guy who had no business in the majors in the first place. He should go do 3 or 4 years in the minors. Fire Ventura and Williams and get some gutsy people in here or we will always be the second team.
PS I’ll take either of the 3 outfielders first Cespy, then Gordon then Upton would my last choice. NL players don’t crossover well into the AL
This is just a trick by Rick Hahn …. instead of signing Cesepedes or Gordon for 5 or 6 years The Sox are now going to sign both for 3 year Deals very smart
I can’t see both. The only hope is that the market for outfielders dries up and they lower there price. Ventura still has to go. Where’s our Joe Maddon? I’d rather have Ozzie back but he won’t take the job out of respect for Ventura. Reinsdorf is too loyal to his people. Too many dumb deals by Williams ( Dunn, LaRoche ,Roberts ) wasted a lot of money and now he afraid to pull the trigger.
Of course, the players themselves and their agents have no say in the matter, nor the MLBPA or any competing clubs for the services of those two free agents. (lol)
4 years/70-75 mil could get Gordon done for the Royals if this is true. If a 4th year is the main sticking point, we’d be fools not to do it if the money is right.