The Yankees unveiled a Monument Park plaque in Mariano Rivera‘s honor, yet as Dave Dombrowski told reporters (including Fangraphs’ David Laurila) this weekend, Rivera could have become Florida Marlins property via the 1992 expansion draft. Dombrowski, then the Marlins GM, would’ve chosen Rivera if the Rockies hadn’t taken Yankees farmhand Brad Ausmus with the previous selection. Since the rules prevented a team from losing more than one player in an expansion draft, that took Rivera and any other unprotected Yankees off the board. Here’s some more news from around baseball as we wrap up the weekend…
- With Darren O’Day back on the DL, BaltimoreBaseball.com’s Dan Connolly opines that the Orioles should try to acquire a veteran southpaw reliever to fill the void. Connolly reports that the O’s looked into the Rockies‘ Boone Logan and the Padres‘ Brad Hand and Ryan Buchter prior to the trade deadline, so it’s possible the Orioles could revisit those talks, though it will be much harder to complete a deal through August trade waivers.
- John Lackey spoke last season of signing one more two-year contract and then retiring, though ESPN’s Buster Olney reports that the right-hander could continue past the 2017 season if the desire and ability is still there. Lackey is enjoying another solid season, and Olney notes that the veteran is actually posting a career high in fastball velocity at age 37 (though this velocity is a rather modest 91.8 mph, after six seasons in the 91.5-91.7 mph range). Lackey would be 39 on Opening Day 2018, so if he is still pitching well, I would suspect he’d explore another contract with a contending team. Staying with the Cubs may well be at the top of Lackey’s list given how the team seems to be entering a long-term contention window.
- It’s no surprise that the big-market Cubs and Phillies are prepared to be big spenders in the coming years, though Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe notes that the traditionally low-payroll Marlins could also potentially become more open to big salaries. With a new local TV contract on the horizon, the revenue increase could make the Marlins more likely to re-sign Jose Fernandez, who has long been considered a good bet to leave Miami in free agency after the 2018 season.
- As the Padres are about to begin a series with the Rays, Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times revisits the three-team blockbuster between San Diego, Tampa and Washington in December 2014. Right now, the deal doesn’t look like a good one for the Rays — Steven Souza has yet to become a consistently productive player, while three of the players Tampa flipped in the deal (Wil Myers, Joe Ross and Trea Turner) are all enjoying success in 2016. It could be years, of course, before we can really judge the trade as a win or loss for any of the three clubs. Topkin also notes that Myers was the source of some clubhouse issues in Tampa Bay, so it’s possible he would never have had his breakout season without a change of scenery.
Tampa didn’t flip Ross and Turner. San Diego did. The rays gave up Hanigan, Myers, Gerardo Reyes, and Jose Castillo
I was thinking that San Diego gave up turner
Yeah but they tech had Ross and Turner which they then flipped those to Wash for Souza.
Yes they did they got turner and ross then moved them to WAS for souza and whatever else
The Rays gave up those players for the package that included Ross and turner and then they flipped those two prospects for Souza. With the nature of the three team deal, those prospects were used to grab the player the Rays really wanted at the time.
Take a quick look at the linked article. The Rays received Ross and Turner from the Padres, then moved them on for other pieces.
Good point! Didn’t the Rays get more than Souza?
This was a 3 team trade, not a flip trade. Yes the Nats were added to the deal to accomodate the Rays, but it still all occurred in the same transaction at the same time. Ross and Turner (even in PTBNL form) were never actually Tampa’s property, so they couldn’t be flipped. In theory it may have been a flip, but only in theory and we don’t really know how the actual trade conversation went, so you can only go with what the transaction says. Anything else is just pure speculation.
If Jose Fernandez has half a brain he will never leave Miami.
Have you looked at his career Home/Road Splits?
I like his chances of developing into a top flight pitcher regardless of the ballpark in which he pitches in. Miami is an easier park to pitch in, but it’s arguably one of the worst franchises to play for in the game. There’s no job security there.
You are wrong. The Rays did give those players up but they got back Trea Turner and Joe Ross and another player too. Turner and Ross belonged to Tampa. Tampa then decided to trade them to the Nationals. That was soley the inept and incompetent Rays front office decision. So it was the Rays that flipped Turner and Ross after acquiring them
It was a 3 way trade. They never belonged to Tampa
That deal was an absolute steal for the Gnats!! I believe ultimately it is right up there with the Gattis trade for Houston and the Miller trade for Arizona as 3 of the top worst trades in the MLB in the last few years!!
1. Arizona deal for Miller
2. Rays deal for Souza
3. Astros deal for Gattis
In that order…If you all can think of any more lopsided trades than those please I’m open to suggestions, because I’m sure I forgot at least one or two…or three lol
The Ken Giles deal looks a little light as well much worse than the Gattis deal. Gattis hasn’t been great, but he hasn’t been as bad as the numbers look. For example, he only played 2 full games (11 total games) in the outfield in 2015, but his dWAR is -1.8? That shouldn’t even be possible. No one is THAT bad in the field. That’s why I don’t trust dWAR. And if you take off that ridiculous dWAR, he was a solid, albeit unspectacular, starter in 2015.
Devon Travis for Anthony gose lol.
Feldman for Arrieta and Strop for sure
Jake Arrietta and Pedro Strop for Scott Feldman and Steve Cleavenger. Drop mic.
I like lopsided trades. Maybe someday everyone will forget my cubbies trade giving up Lou Brock. Or it will help other fans say yeah our team got hosed but still not as bad as Cubs trading Brock. It happens . GM has so much pressure to win now they give up too much just to keep owner happy and keep job.
I like some Cardinal trades also.. Like Steve Carlton for Rick Wise..
After the 1st year and the deal was 1st starting to look bad.. Carlton wins 27 games for the Phillies, Cy Young award, etc.. Wise made a comment how: “sometimes a deal takes awhile to look better”. Wise was really prophetic there. That deal looked better and better for Philly as time went on and a COMPLETE surrender for St Louis.. Carlton went on to have a HOF career in Philly and Wise was shuffled off to Boston 1y later for Reggie Smith.
Point? Every team makes deals both ways.. It just happens.
Being a Phillies fan since the days of Johnny Callison I was going to mention that trade earlier but was called away. I know I have some bias but that 72 year of Carlton’s was amazing 27-10 on a 59 win team, 1.97 era, 30 CG in 41 starts, 346.1Ip; ad only 257h,310K. All of that 4 years after they lowered the mound from 15″ to 10″ after Gibson’s year
Lou Brock deal was about 50 years ago. Who cares now
Point think NoAZPhilsPhan and myself made above.. some old geezer will recall some awful trade, generally for a HOF member that was given away, sometimes for what ended up being a nobody, sometimes (in the case of Rick Wise) A guy who best years were almost all in the rear view mirror.
When bragging about certain teams making swindle deals? Careful.. They have ALL been swindled and some of us might even remember a few funny quotes from the news with regards to them as well.
Agreed John. It seems too, that baseball is more steeped in history. The average Joe on the street can likely tell you a few things about The Babe bout would be hard pressed to do the same regarding Red Grange
I’d say the Donaldson trade is still the worst trade in recent history especially when you look at the pitchers the A’s got vs the Pitchers the Tigers and Rockies got from the same team for lesser players. The A’s can keep hanging their hat on Barreto but hes never going to be half the player Donaldson is. Nolin was DFA’d, Graveman is a back of the rotation starter. The way the trade came about was puzzling too, it was before the Red Sox signed Pablo and they were never even given a chance to make an offer on Donaldson just brutal.
It also appears the Pablo deal did come first, but I still recall teams being firmly told no Donaldson isn’t available and the Red Sox being one of those teams interested. Then seemingly overnight the Blue Jays had him.
Eh the Donaldson trade was a forced move by Beane- something over a financial dispute.
But for donaldson the A’s received Nolin Graveman Lawrie and Barreto. They then shipped lawrie to the white sox for erwin and wendleken.
So it became donaldson for nolin graveman barreto erwin and wendleken.
Barreto is the A’s top prospect ranking around #50 so we will see what he comes.
Not nearly enough for a guy who was in the running for MVP 2 years in a row, the Yankees got more for a half year of a RP. Torres is a better prospect already and a year younger.
Troy Tuowitzki and David Price were not lesser players than Donaldson when they were acquired. Donaldson was a nice player, but he jumped a lot with Toronto. Tulo and Price were both top 20 players in the league when they were acquired. Donaldson was top 100 and maybe even top 50, but not top 20 at the time of acquisition.
Tulo top 20 Donaldson maybe top 50? That is one of the funniest things you’ve posted, Tulo is an injury prone overrated player who was putting up numbers in Coors, Donaldson was putting up MVP numbers in O.co. and never missing games. Not to Mention Donaldson was a top level defensive player something Tulo has never been. Tulo has never had a 7 WAR season Donaldson had 2 of them, with Oakland, Donaldson also had more control left than Either Price or Tulo and was not overpaid like Tulo is.
How does Donaldson have more control than Tulo? Tulo is a free agent after 2021.
Tulo has never been a top level defender, but Donaldson has? Well you aren’t worth listening to after that. I guess since you act like you are only 10 years old, it is possible that you don’t remember 2007, but Tulo was arguably the best defender in the game that year. He was also in the top 5 in dWAR for 4 out of 5 years.
Never had a 7 WAR season? Nice arbitrary number. You nicely ignored his 6.8, 6.7, 6.5, and 6.1 seasons. Not to mention his 5.5 half season.
If we’re talking lopsided trades from the last few years you have to include Trumbo for Clevenger between Seattle and Baltimore. Even if Trumbo doesn’t stay beyond this season Clevenger was, at best the O’s third catcher and wasn’t making the O’s roster since he was out of options.
That is not a bad trade because strop was always bood off the mound when he pitched and Arreitta would have never had the success because the O’s wouldn’t let him add his pitch
It’s cute how Dombrowski wants to blame the Rockies for his missing Rivera. The Yankees lost three players in that draft…Ausmus was the third. A team could only lose one player per round. Florida could have selected Rivera from the Yankees instead of #2 pick Carl Everett in the second round or could have selected Rivera instead of #2 pick Nigel Wilson from the Jays in the 1st round (Charlie Hayes from the Yankees went #3 to the Rox). But of course those points don’t make Dombrowski look good at the expense of Colorado.
Besides he got the second greatest closer of all time in that same draft in Trevor Hoffman anyway. There is always a chance that had Rivera been drafted by Florida that he might not have developed at all. Or he could have ended up as a decent, but relatively forgotten Florida closer like Braden Looper, Ugueth Urbina or Armando Benitez. Or he could have been traded away like Hoffman and most of the rest of that Marlins expansion draft. Jeff Conine was the only member of that 92 draft that was on the Marlins ’97 WS team. But once again, those possibilities wouldn’t make Dombrowski look as good either. What a completely ridiculous self-serving comment..
Oh please…here is the whole fangraphs article…
Dombrowski shared a fascinating what-if at Saber Seminar. Had the Colorado Rockies not selected Brad Ausmus in the 1992 Rule 5 draft, Mariano Rivera may never have pitched for the New York Yankees.
Dombrowski was the general manager of the Florida Marlins at the time, and his club was planning to take Rivera with the ensuing pick. As fate would have it, the Ausmus selection “closed out the Yankees from losing any other players.” Had Colorado taken a player from any other organization, Rivera would have been a Marlin.
Where is the self-serving (Definition – serving one’s own interests often in disregard of the truth or the interests of others) comment? he shared a story, he laid no blame, no criticism. I think the thin air has made someone a bit touchy
You mean to tell me…… that the all time leader in a made up stat could’ve been a Marlin?
It’s easy to tell that story now that he has become a HOFer, because it makes Dombrowski look like a genius that saw all his potential before anyone else did. Where are the quotes from 1992 that say something similar? He is just doing what people do, exaggerating a story to make himself look smarter/better.
And your proof that he is exaggerating is………………?
There is no way that Benitez is a forgotten closer. Orioles fans would love to forget him but will never be able to and that’s just groovy for this Nats fan. Long may the O’s lose!!
Forgotten as a Marlins closer is what I meant. However compared to Mariano Rivera, he is going to be relatively forgotten.
Ausmus was taken in the expansion draft, not the rule 5 which means teams could protect additional players after each round and AL clubs were limited to 8 teams that could have more then 2 players taken. So no, he couldn’t have taken him the next round.
He was asked about Rivera because of all of yesterdays hoopla and he works for the Red Sox. He answered the question with a little story, there was no self aggrandizing or barbs thrown at the Rockies.
Not what I said. Ausmus was taken with the 1st pick of the 3rd round by the Rockies. So Rivera couldn’t be taken in the 3rd round, However, he could have been taken by Florida in the 1st or 2nd round. Carl Everett of the Yankees was taken by the Marlins with the 2nd pick of the 2nd round. Charlie Hayes of the Yankees was taken by the Rockies with the 3rd pick of the 1st round.
I remember this because I watched the entire draft on ESPN in 1992. All the talking heads were going on about how the Yankees were silly for not pulling back Everett or Ausmus after round 1 and how it was incredibly dumb for Ausmus to still be there in Round 3. If the Yankees had pulled back Ausmus like all the prospect experts said, then they might have lost Rivera instead. Or course I still think it is just Dombrowski trying to make himself look better in a story.
it was the expansion draft and not the Rule 5.
I know the original article said that Brad Ausmus was taken taken in the Rule 5 draft and Mo would have been, but they meant the Expansion draft. Not the Rule 5.
If the Orioles got boon Logan, god help the AL East
Can he start?
What, he’d help them a lot but that by no means makes them the favorites, not even close
God help the al east from Boone Logan? Please. That’s just laughable
Orioles already have a stellar bullpen, adding Logan makes it even better.
I should have said God help the al east in the 7th 8th and 9th inning.
The next two FA classes are crap, nothing there the Phillies need
People want to talk about lopsided trades. I have the worst trade, and most lopsided trade in baseball history. The Angels traded Devon White to the Blue Jays who never even had plate appearance for the Angels. Now someone tell me a more lopsided trade than that one.