9:21am: The discussions were held during the GM Meetings and “have yet to advance beyond [the] initial stage,” Morosi adds on Twitter.
8:27am: The Giants and Tigers have discussed the possibility of a swap that would send power-hitting outfielder J.D. Martinez out west, according to Jon Morosi of MLB Network (via Twitter). Detroit has been said to be willing to consider deals involving all its veteran assets, so news of the discussions is hardly surprising. As things stand, there’s no reason to believe there’s any particular momentum toward a transaction.
Entering his final year of team control, Martinez is a clear trade candidate, particularly since the Tigers have made clear they won’t pursue an extension with him. Martinez is owed $11.75MM this year as part of the two-year contract he signed last winter to buy out his remaining arbitration years. Though Detroit is looking to trim salary in the long run, that doesn’t mean it couldn’t keep him for one more run. But the reasonable salary and short commitment also make Martinez a highly appealing trade chip, which the Tigers could use to boost their efforts to develop a younger and more cost-efficient roster.
Martinez has turned himself into one of the game’s premier power hitters since joining the Tigers as a minor league free agent just before the 2014 season. Since that time, he owns a .299/.357/.540 slash line and has hit 83 home runs in 1,654 plate appearances. Though Martinez missed time last year after suffering a freak elbow fracture, he returned as good as ever. While metrics liked his glovework in right field in 2015, they were way down on him last season, and Martinez has never rated well on the basepaths. Despite those questions, the bat does plenty to carry his value, and Martinez only just turned 29.
Martinez has batted a combined .299/.357/.540 over the past three years and averaged 34 homers per 162 games played along the way. He missed nearly two months of the 2016 season with a fracture in his elbow but was improbably even better after his time on the DL, slashing .332/.392/.553 with 10 homers over his final 232 plate appearances (albeit with the help of an unsustainable .418 BABIP).
The fit with the Giants makes a good bit of sense on paper — at least, that is, if San Francisco is willing to cough up enough of interest to get something done. Certainly, the need is there, as the club has an opening in left field and surely wouldn’t mind filling it with another big bat. With several significant long-term contracts on the books, though, and the possibility of a second Madison Bumgarner extension on the horizon, there would seem to be appeal in a one-year obligation.
Parting with young talent always hurts, but there are countervailing considerations at play here. Dealing for Martinez would deliver a team exclusive negotiating rights with him until he reaches free agency, so there’s always the possibility of striking a lengthier accord at a more appealing price than could be found on the open market. And then there’s the fact that he’d be an obvious qualifying offer candidate next winter, which would open the door to draft compensation, although ongoing collective bargaining talks inject some uncertainty into that consideration.
Arroyo?
That would make sense. Especially if the Tigers also moved Kinsler.
I don’t see why one is or should be related to the other. Kinsler’s contract is declining, so they save money keeping him. Without one of them, they can still contend. Moving both would make that more difficult.
Where does Arroyo play?
Shortstop at AA, maybe AAA this year
Any trade talk with the Giants will include Ray Black. Every pitching coach thinks he can some someone’s mechanical problems, and Black is a huge project in that regard. Even for a one year rental, I hope they get more than that for JD but I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s in the package.
Black is from my city and he would be the first player in the majors since Kevin Gryboski last pitched for the Nationals in 2006. Hope he can make an impact in the majors!
From Wilkes-Barre, PA, that is..
Not necessarily, but I would definitely rather trade him than Arroyo.
Arroyo is the Giants’ top prospect. Martinez is a free agent at the end of the year. I think this would be an awful trade for the Giants, seeing as Arroyo has the potential to be better than J.D., and for more than just a year.
Arroyo is a low power middle infielder with fielding issues.
The Giants sent Duvall and Mella for 2 months of Mike Leake, they simply don’t care about prospects.
SF thought that Parker and Williamson have better power than Duvall. Look I was shocked at the Leake trade, but stating SF don’t care about prospects is quite extreme. Since Posey, Belt, MadBum, Panik, Heston, Cain, et al all were prospects. Lincecum and Duffy who departed were prospects.
Yes some deals are bad. The Liriano, Bonser, Nathan deal which better AJ Pierzinski was stupid yes!
The deal which got Moore for Duffy plus 2. Was good.
The deal which got Leake to be on DL, and sent Duvall to CIN was bad.
Parker and Williamson did project to be overall better players than Duvall, with more of an ability to get on base and play some reasonable defense. Duvall was also primarily an infielder: first base was taken by Brandon Belt, and presumably he couldn’t handle third base defensively, so Matt Duffy eventually won that job.
The Pierzinski deal was stupid from the word go. The Leake deal made much more sense at the time, but Leake got injured and things didn’t pan out.
Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but I would still be very surprised if Duvall is more than a one year wonder.
It would be a huge mistake to trade Arroyo considering they traded Matt Duffy to open up a spot for him
yankees should look to make a deal with Detroit… Martinez is perfect stop gap… and yanks have surplus of young outfielders… refsnyder, Jake cave and perhaps hicks for martinez… he gives yanks a year to get judge and company up to speed
Typical pathetic Yankee-fan garbage dump for a great hitter. Why don’t you throw in Jake Gibbs as well?
Yeah, that’s not gonna happen. Lots of teams are flush with cash, so the old way of the Yanks doing business is gone. Jake Cave was a returned Rule V pick — he’s not fetching much. Hicks has little value. Refsnyder is a hustler, but it hasn’t translated to the MLB level yet. He could fetch a decent player, but not someone of Martinez’s caliber.
I’m not to familiar with the Giants farm system, anyone know some pieces the Tigers would be possibly targeting?
Perhaps Arroyo. Beede and Heston could also be targets. Still not convinced Giants have enough to get JD
hope it’s not arroyo, the farm system is pretty weak right now, especially after having no first round last year and the steep asking prices at the deadline.
Giants would offer a young sp. Stratton? Romero? I think Blach is in the team’s major league plans this year. I could also see Heston.
Agreed with this, there’s plenty of other teams out there with stronger farms who could blow any offer SF gives out of the water.
I’m not sure the Giants have enough to get it done, but I could be wrong. I take these with a grain of salt. We’ve already heard about the Dodgers having discussions about Verlander and the Astros having discussions about Cabrera. I’m sure JD gets traded, but I’m skeptical that it’s to the bay.
Yeah, same. We’ve heard Kinsler to Dodgers, JV to Dodgers, JD to Phillies, Giants, Miggy to Astros, that’s not even to mention there’s some poor team out there interested in Anibal Sanchez and Mike Pelfrey
Someone looking for a new Worst Pitcher for their roster would be lucky to acquire Mike Pelfrey
Pretty sure ATL would take Sanchez or Pelfrey….if Manning, Burrows, Stewart or Hill were coming with them.
Only way they’re getting out from those deals.
That’s not going to happen. But I could see a lower level prospect being included along with one of those two. Or they could add one of them to a potential JD or Kinsler trade. Saves some money but the the return would decrease
I think the Giants could get it done without much trouble, but I don’t know how motivated they’ll be
Giants need more than just Arroyo to get JD Martinez.
Arroyo is their only Top 100 Prospect.
Not sure they have enough.
I believe Beede is also a top 100 prospect, according to MLB Pipeline, but yeah I agree
If we trade for J.D., each of the 2018, 2019, and 2020 offseasons, we need a new outfielder. Not my favorite.
Who would you take if your the Giants, Martinez or Gardner. Gardner. is a better defensive player. Yanks would want Beede.
So what would it take? Arroyo and Heston I think would be locks to go to Detroit, but what else would the package feature, I’m not very familiar with their farm.
Beede would most likely seal that deal since he’s highly regarded in the Giants system. I know the Giants don’t have a lot but they do have some arms that can be valuable, and some bats that could develop
Yeah a package of Arroyo, Beede, and Heston would probably do it. But Giants might be hesitant to part with both of their top 100 prospects
my favorite aspect of this site is the wild National Enquirer – esk headlines teasing some massive signing or trade only to end with there is no reason to believe there is any traction of this event happening … lol
Really? I find that to be a ridiculous charge, honestly. We play things straight. The title states exactly what the report says, nothing more: they have talked about a deal. But please, craft an alternative that is reasonably concise and isn’t “wild.”
Jeff. Keep up the good work. You can’t please everyone.
I think the point is that the “As things stand, there’s no reason to believe there’s any particular momentum toward a transaction” bit that has been increasingly popping up in posts like this isn’t really necessary. The post up to that point didn’t make it seem as if a trade was imminent or likely, so what is the point of adding a couching comment that does nothing but make the post overall slightly longer and perhaps slightly more sensational? Like the site is called mlb trade rumors, we all know they are rumors, why present a good rumor and then add a strong caveat of “this is only a rumor?” We all know it’s a rumor…
Also, to futher nitpick, what does “particular momentum” even mean? It’s the type of thing that would be deleted off wikipedia as “weasel words.” Like is there “slight momentum” in this instance but not “particular momentum?” You guys wrote a great rumor post with these bits of filler included..
Let me preface this by stating I love this site and the new NHL one as well . It is something I use multiple times daily. It was NOT meant as an attack or questioning of anyone’s integrity or authenticity. I was simply saying I think the headline hyperbole sometimes implies events that are in actuality so casual if not direct misdirection from the source (as we know the pro’s use this site as well) that it can become humorous.. No offense was ever intended.
I am waiting with baited breath to see a MLBTR saying EE is close to signing with Red Sox and Chris Sale is looking for suitable housing in the New England area for his impending trade to the area !
MLBTR is the more credible source of Baseball information. I have no idea what you are talking about.
Seriously? Best baseball site and you’re quibbling….
You’re drunk, go home.
The site’s name is MLB Trade RUMORS
Rumor (noun)- A currently circulating story or report of uncertain or doubtful truth.
You rarely see Sabean make big trades because he values his prospects. Giants do have some good prospects in the minors but most are below AA level.
I like Arroyo for Detroit as our SS of the future, or 3B. However, the qualifying offer system would put this trade too much in SF’s favor. We would need another 1-3 round pick from a recent draft of theirs, and maybe ask them to take on Mark Lowe’s salary as well. If he was sent anywhere else for a prospect further away from the big leagues I’d force them to take Pelfrey or Sanchez as well, though I think Sanchez could have value now to some of the teams that would have bid on Hellickson.
Common who do you think Martinez are???
Is he better then Jeff Kent??
He is almost over the hill at age 29
I won’t give you guys Detroit Arroyo
Giants will be stupid if they gave up Arroyo now
Trade Arroyo or not trade make up your mind Bobby Evans
Don’t get carried away. Any trade of JD is for One year of his services. It is unknown what compensation, if any, the team will get at the end of the year if he walks. Until the new CBA is finalized, it’s all guess work. That said, Detroit’s system is lacking in position players. The few they have are a couple years away. Heston isn’t much different than Boyd, so I don’t see him as a fit. The rotation currently has JV, Zim, Fulmer, Norris, and Boyd, with Farmer, Sanchez, and Pelfrey in the wings. I am all for TOR prospects, but I don’t see Heston as a need.
Yeah Toronto has a much better system than SF. Alford and Pompey would be nice to add to the Tigers system
11.75M is a bargain, in today’s baseball world. So, that couldn’t, possibly, be a major factor in why J.D. is being dangled around. And it’s really dumb when I read about a player’s age. If his production is there, why give a crap how old he is?
Because age can be an indicator of declining numbers…
I doubt Arroyo would be in the deal. Yes DET would ask but SF would decline. Space has been made for him in the future to be at 3B. No way we create a hole at 3B to satisfy a rental at LF. Pitchers like Beede, Blach, et al maybe, not Arroyo.
I think Beede and Willamson is more than enough to land JD.
It’s a 1 year rental for the best arm and the best MLB ready power outfielder SF have from the farm
I think the Tigers could get a whole lot more than that from other teams. I mean they got the AL ROY for two months of Yoenis Cespedes.
You can’t compare trade deadline moves to off-season moves.
In July, you only have access to tradable (or really bad guys who were cut) players. In the off-season, you have access to tradable players AND free agents. The seller’s leverage goes down because they aren’t the only place teams can find value adds.
Also, what Fulmer is now doesn’t equate to what he was when traded. He was outstanding, but he wasn’t AL ROY when he was traded.
Well put.
True-you can’t compare deadline/off season moves.. But, a GM who does not need to move someone in off season- he can ask/demand a return equal to a deadline return. If he does not get what he wants- no problem-just move him at the deadline ( and get the extra 4 months of offense).
Right, but that misses the point of my response. The commenter stated that the Tigers got more for 2 months of Yoenis Cespedes than the suggested trade.
It fails to consider 3 things:
1. Trades in July look different than trades in January (as I’ve already stated)
2. Things were different for the Tigers when he was traded. Dombrowski (GM at the time) was released only a few days later.
3. J.D. Martinez is not as good as Yoenis Cespedes.
I’d argue that yoenis is better I’ll take the obp /batting average if there’s another metric youd prefer it would make it a very close debate I think the option to offer a qo makes jd more valuable in a normal situation.
I think you are wrong. ‘It’s a 1 year rental for the best arm and the best MLB ready power outfielder SF have from the farm.” This is the problem, the giants farm system is trash, although those may be decent members of their system, they are pretty meh in many other teams’. Many teams can and at least one likely will, beat an offer like that thinking that JD is more the 3-4 win player than the 2 win player and being willing to take the 1 year gamble at what is a pretty reasonable salary.
Good point
Yep agree 100%
Bobby Evans will be mistake again if he trade Arroyo
Arroyo will be next Jeff Kent
Tyler Bedee took too much time to learn
If Tyler not make club 2017 good trade bait
If Avila plays his cards right the Tigers could transform their team and possibly future. They have many valuable pieces. I would hate to see them go but in the long run it will be best. Just gotta make the right moves.
I think this rumor will get the ball rolling for other teams to begin calling DET about JD. I don’t like this possibility for either team. The only prospect I think that will make an impact in MLB is Arroyo and I don’t see SF including him. I do believe that even with the new CBA being worked out, that SF will be able to extend a QO and get a 1st rounder for JD if he walks after next season. But I could also see JD signing an extension in SF (they have a solid management team and are always competitive) and I just don’t think DET will get enough in return. I’m hoping that either the Cubs, Astros or Dodgers come after him instead. Would MUCH rather have a chance at their prospect pool, and I also think there is a much better chance at a blockbuster that includes either Cabrera (Astros) or Verlander (Dodgers). I’m truly rooting for DET to clean house, get near MLB ready talent and wipe off the mega-millions still owed to Cabby, JV, Vmart and Kinsler. GO TIGERS!
I think trading JV or Miggy is still unlikely. Same with VMart. JD and Kinsler are probably the two likeliest to go. I agree, those farm systems are much more stocked than the Giants’
I’m actually curious as to why Vmart isn’t discussed more his contract isn’t crazy with only two years left he’s a switch hitter on top of that with only beltran left as a comparable hitter I could see a team packaging something together either taking the Upton contract or at the very least an add on to a team like Houston or Texas who is searching for both a dh and an ace like Verlander.
I think you’ll see VMart’s name pop up alot before and during the Winter Meetings. With good teams like BOS and NYY losing their DH’s, you’ll see them actively going after players like VMart. Some people are bringing up the fact that teams can sign guys like Encarnacion and he can DH when not playing the field, but it’s not as easy as just dropping the glove and picking up a bat. Being a full time DH is a difficult adjustment that not alot of players can do seamlessly, so a trade for someone like VMart and Beltran makes sense and it’s important to AL clubs. Obviously the Tigers will only have 15 clubs to which they can market his contract to, but with only 2 years left on it and a AAV that isn’t out of this world, he can be a huge piece to add to an AL contender! Will be awful to see him in a different uniform though. I love me some Victor!
As a sox fan I’d love him to come back as long as it’s not a huge haul. Guys can make the adjustment fairly easy the problem becomes is it worth it for the team guys like David or Vmart who hit are but alot of teams also like the option to give guys the day off. I know DD said he wants that option and might be a problem with them with Martinez having had a lack of time in the field the last couple of years. New York might do the same route. Just as a side note wouldn’t it be beneficial to free up that space for Detroit so they can expel Cabrera sometimes to given that contract you want him to stay healthy.
Also, when DD was in Detroit, it was not his choice to resign Victor to a four year deal. It was Mike Illitch who told DD to resign him. I’m not sure DD would be interested in bringing him back to Boston
Well he does have 10-and-5 rights so he can veto any deal. And his market is very limited to only a few teams. I suppose it could work, but not sure if it’s likely that he’s moved
I think he would explore that Avenue if it’s the most cost effective for his farm system and financial future. If they just want to shed payroll I’m all for picking him up. And i think they would to.Especially if it keeps us from a bidding war with another team for beltran, ee, or Bautista. But I still believe he’s not going out of his way to get him @ all costs.
Yeah, why would you want a guy that hits 28-35 HR’s and 40-45 extra base hits per year and an absolute clubhouse leader? Someone who could mentor the other young, Latin players on the roster like Moncada. Nah, I wouldn’t want that around my club either.
Why would any Detroit fan wish for the Tigers to clean house? They missed the playoffs by one game. They were hurt by injuries to Castellanos, JD, Maybin, and Zimmerman. Their FA signings all failed. They, and Cleveland, have to be the favorites in their division as it stands now. No reason to tear it all down. The pitching is young. The offense is solid. Change is fine, Tear down, when they are this close, would be foolish.
They say that because of Avila. And it’s a thing that just worked with Chicago so it should work everywhere else (sarcasm)
Because I’ve watched every single game the last few years and this club is good, not great. The fact that they have over $175M tied up between 5 players (Cabby, JV, Upton, VMart, Zimmerman) over atleast the next 3 years will ensure that they end up the AL version of the Phillies. We have fantastic SP and a decent core of younger positional players (Castellanos, Christian Stewart, JaCoby Jones, etc.) that we need to supplement with younger, cost-controlled players. That won’t happen if we are paying Cabrera ($28M), VMart ($18M) and Upton ($25M) over the next 3 years what their contracts call for. Trade them now, get positional players that are near MLB ready, bite the bullet for 2 years or so and that will also give Fullmer, Boyd, Norris, Matt Manning and Beau Burrows time to get some innings under their belt.
Generally I like blowing up teams but I say that knowing that the team is probably not going to contend for 3+years. Are you ok with that? I think Detroit is a good team and can contend next year Idk if I’d do it with them. I liked it when Atlanta for instance did it because I didn’t feel they were as good. But I guess if you’re talking about jd and try to slash payroll why not do a complete tear down and build up like you’re talking about.
Why would the cubs want JD Martinez? They have too many ofs as is
I think it’s dumb for SF to trade ANY prospects when they have the money to address the issue by signing a free agent and SF by all reports has plenty of money. All SF is going to do by trading prospects is deplete a farm system that nobody really rates all that well and already has a serious lack of depth in return for a player that’s going to be around for a year? Seems dumb as hell to me.
SF needs to address all of their issues via free agency AND find some way to build up the farm system because whatever prospects they do have could very well be needed to fill any issues that crop up during the season when you can’t fix things by signing free agents.
How exactly can they fill the holes that they have via free agency? Have you seen the scarcity of talent in this year’s FA market? Who exactly are you going to get to play OF in free agency? There is actually 2 problems with your statement. 1) There are very few players that are HALF as good as JD that are FA’s. 2) The decent free agent OF’s price tags that are out there are going to be sky high b/c of the lack of talent! Good luck with the 4-5 years you will have to sign players like Josh Reddick or Mark Trumbo for. At the very least with JD, you will get him for a relatively low price ($11.75M) AND if he does want to go elsewhere you will get a 1st rounder back when he declines the QO. And you will have a whole year to discuss an extension before he hits free agency. But as I previously stated, I hope your right because as a DET fan I’d rather trade with a different club with a better prospect pool.
OF is the one strength of this market and if SF wanted to they would find a way to sign Cespedes. I couldn’t justify giving up whatever talent is left in that depleted farm system for a guy who is a free agent next winter.
@dtownwarrior – how do they fill holes? Spend the money. Otherwise, to my point, they deplete the farm system and SF is one of the teams that is already weak (as you said) and SF can afford to sign someone like Fowler. The problem for SF is that they need to overpay for hitters (quoting Sabean) because it’s a tough park to hit in.
Let’s say they give up Aroyo for Martinez. Next year they still need to find a left fielder and then in 2018 they have to find a third basemen (where Arroyo could potentially play), neither of which will be cheap. Also the pick that you would get back for Martinez leaving doesn’t have a high likelihood of being as good ar Arroyo.
Next year when they will need to sign another left fielder there isn’t going to be a huge price difference for a premium player. why not pay it now?
Oh and *NO* to Reddick, can’t hit left handed pitching and SF already has an abundance of left handed hitters.
If they’re going to pay the $ anyways why not pony up and get Martinez and extend him issue solved. I wouldn’t touch fowler in a bidding war and the rest of the guys available in the nl I’d be scared of you. Trumbo fielding let alone obp and his power only went up playing in the al east, fowler speed doesn’t age well, Reddick injuries u know what Martinez is
I would do it if I could extend Martinez as part of the deal. But my issue isn’t with Martinez. My issue is with giving up anyone significant from the farm (which SF would have to do) just because SF has money, but doesn’t have a strong farm. So use the money and continue to rebuild the depth. Honestly I would LOVE SF to have Martinez. It’s just the cost for one year of control.
One year might mean a championship that would be a real good team with. Jd and reliever like malancon they’d probably be favored if lad loses alot of its key players. You could always sign him like they did with hunter you do have $
The QO process will change significantly with the new CBA and it’s unlikely that first round picks will continue being a part of the process moving forward.
Id say some combination of three of Williamson, Black, Shaw, Heston or Blach would be a good trade for Martinez.
iirc, right before evans/sabes pulled the trigger on the moore/duffy deal, sabes was in the field scouting arroyo to make sure he would be the heir apparent to the hot corner. basically, they wanted to make sure arroyo could step up and eventually be the everyday 3rd baseman. doesn’t mean that he’s still considered trade bait but you don’t let go of a fan favorite and solid performer like duffy unless you have someone ready in the wings (nunez/gillaspie combo with arroyo next in line in the near future).
Good point. Another reason why I don’t think these two teams match up very well for JD
Can’t see Beede going – need him for the rotation in a year or two. Heston needs a change of scenery maybe Parker as well; Can’t give up an Arroyo/Beede for a 1 yr rental.
Well those are the Giants’ top prospects, and I’d bet that a deal would involve one of them if a deal with SF were to happen
Both Martinez and Gardner would be good options for the Giants, but their major concern is getting a closer.
I’m sure they’ll be able to snag one of the big three closers, most likely Melancon
Maybe, but supply and demand. Giants, Dodgers, Nats, Cubs, Yanks and others all need a closer.
Shaw seems like a for sure piece going back. I can’t see him not involved
If a trade happens obviously
Perfect bat
Why in the world do I keep seeing Heston as trade bait? He’s a 28 year old non-prospect who had one good half last year. He can be traded for some A ball player nobody has heard of but not as a package for JD Martinez.
I don’t see Arroyo as going anywhere. They’ve got too much riding on him in future plans. I wouldn’t be willing to give up the farm just for one guy who’s probably leaving in a season. But we need a right-handed power-hitting left fielder that can play great defense. Few and far between. Giants need to pay for their free agents and keep our farm boys.