5:45pm: Rangers GM Jon Daniels told reporters (including Jeff Wilson of the Fort Worth Star-Telegram) that his team isn’t looking at the trades like the blockbuster that brought Cole Hamels to Texas in 2015, which would seem to confirm that the Rangers indeed aren’t in on Sale right now.
SUNDAY, 1:40pm: Mark Bowman of MLB.com joins Heyman in reporting that the Braves aren’t willing to give up Swanson, whom the White Sox covet. Discussions between the two teams aren’t leading anywhere as a result (Twitter link). While it won’t surrender Swanson, Atlanta would consider parting with Albies, per Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via Twitter).
10:51am: The Braves have deemed Swanson untouchable in trade talks, while the Nationals have likely done the same with shortstop/center fielder Trea Turner, reports Heyman.
SATURDAY: The Braves have already added three starting pitchers in Bartolo Colon, R.A. Dickey and Jaime Garcia early this offseason, and they’re now trying to swing a trade with the White Sox for ace Chris Sale, according to Fanrag’s Jon Heyman. However, there’s competition in the form of the Astros, Nationals, Red Sox, Rangers and Dodgers, writes Heyman, who notes that Los Angeles is lagging behind because it’s hesitant to deal any of its top prospects.
The Dodgers are more focused on bolstering their rotation through free agency than trades, tweets FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal, which aligns with a report from earlier Saturday that they have a deal in place to re-sign left-hander Rich Hill. Contrary to Heyman, Rosenthal relays that the Astros and Rangers are out on Sale at the White Sox’s current asking price. And while the Red Sox are involved, they’re also reluctant to meet Chicago’s demands (Twitter link).
After agreeing to sign outfielder/designated hitter Carlos Beltran on Saturday, Astros owner Jim Crane told Mark Berman of FOX 26 that the team will go into the winter meetings seeking pitching, but it’s unlikely to make any “big moves” (Twitter link). That would seem to rule out a Sale acquisition for Houston.
Based on reports from Heyman and Rosenthal, both the Braves and National League East rival Nats – who are continuing their discussions with the Pirates regarding center fielder Andrew McCutchen, per Rosenthal – are among the front-runners for Sale.
It’s unlikely the Braves would include prized young shortstop Dansby Swanson in a trade, Heyman suggests, but the belief is that they have the pieces to make a deal happen. Atlanta has major league trade chips in center fielder Ender Inciarte and right-hander Mike Foltynewicz, not to mention a well-regarded prospect pool that features the likes of middle infielder Ozzie Albies, southpaws Sean Newcomb and Kolby Allard, and righties Mike Soroka and Touki Toussaint. Baseball America included all five of those players in its Midseason Top 100 prospects list.
Braves and Red Sox seem to be the front runners for Sale.
No
Wow, what a useful contribution to the article. Maybe try actually explaining why, unless that’s too much to ask
Yes
Not the sox. Already have 6 starters that pitcjdf well down the stretch, Also, they are in the middle of a youth movement and i highly doubt they will give in to what the white sox are asking for.
Do you really think that bc they have 6 starters they wouldn’t go after Sale he is one of the best pitchers in the game. Not to mention erod would probably be inculded in the trade
How do you know,GM Flores 27? Are you there at the meetings?
Yes
Just wanted to say that I love your comment of “yes”. I need to say that in the future give a supporting reason please, however I love your comeback to the childlike sarcasm.
Red Sox are waiting for the price to go down. Which is not likely.
So I have heard. That would mean that Boston is Chicago’s second priority. Atlanta is first. If Chicago can get what they want from Atlanta, then that will be that. Red Sox aren’t ready to give away their top two “prospects”
Atlanta and the Nationals battling each other for Sale is only a good thing for the White Sox.
Whitesox will have to come down to get anything from ATL also…ATL wont trade Foltzy, Ender, or Swanson….Whitesox will have to move down to the next tier…
Then, once again, you don’t get Sale.
Eh, that would be fine w/ me. I’m not sure I’d move the farm to get Sale this year. Maybe if it were next year and Atlanta was closer to competing.
Dont want him…..If the Braves give up what White Sox want…they won’t compete until Sale is a FA anyways….pointless…
CWS really wants Swanson, I’m thinking. I would have expected a deal by now.
If the WSox can’t get exactly what they want from ANYBODY, they will just keep him. They’re not going to settle for a lesser package from one team if talks with another team don’t pan out.
They will sooner or later…otherwise there is no reason to try and rebuild….
No chance Swanson leaves ATL.
Yes. That’s what they did at the deadline. Asked Boston for guys, Boston negotiated, and CWS kept Sale. Simple.
Even with Swanson included I wouldn’t do that trade with Atlanta. Swanson doesn’t impress me a bit. All this talk of Atlanta being ready to compete next year is a stretch.
and as the days tick off that contract the price will come down lower and lower….
The Red Sox aren’t trading both Moncada and Nintendo. Nintendo is a lot like Swanson for the Braves he isn’t going anywhere.
The White Sox wanted JBJ at the trade deadline and he was there starting Center Fielder they could not do that at the time but they might trade him in the offseason especially with Nintendo around to take over center.
I think you mean Benintendi. Nintendo is a video game company
ATL won’t trade Folty — what gave you that idea? Sure, they would. I’d rather send him (adding Sale) along with Newcomb than one of the other younger studs like Fried, Allard, Soroka honestly.
I don’t mind losing Albies (if it gets Sale/Archer), but it’d really hurt losing Ender. Guys been the lifeblood of the team, behind the franchise: Freeman.
I think the Braves would be a big winner to get Sale for Folty, Ender, and Albies. Sale is a proven Ace, and Atlanta don’t have a pitcher close to an Ace. It’s great to have a ton of young talent but proven stars are what you hop prospects to turn into. A bird in hand is better than two in a bush.
Braves would trade Folty or Teheran, plus Mallex Smith, Rio Ruiz, and either Blair or Wisler. That is why they are still in the hunt.
Agreed, Dansby stay in Atl
Somehow I doubt that Atlanta won’t trade Enciarte or Folty. Swanson I would assume is definitely not an option, however Mallex is able to take center and if they did get Sale, Folty or Garcia is probably the odd man out of the roataion.
Despite this, I am against Atlanta spending that kind of prospect haul and partially destroying what they’ve worked so hard to build. The depth of their farm is where their value lies, and that is what will keep them valuable. We’ve already lost 5 prospects off our top 30 (and gained one in Jackson). None of Dykstra, Gant, or Ellis impressed me but both Povse and Whalen I feel have some (Povse moreso) potential to become successful big league starters. But depth is depth, if they get Sale then I think the Garcia trade was pointless because right now it’s Folty and Garcia. Without that trade and a trade for Sale it would have been Sale and Wisler/Blair. If they trade Folty they should have been giving one of the other young guys a chance.
I think one of Moncada, JBJ or Nintendo would be a fair starting point, but I have a feeling that Chicago isn’t interested in fair….nor should they be
That is not so true, A team may pay a higher price later at trade deadline to have a stud pitcher throwing game one, four, or seven and there is no one available on the open market that any team would put in any of those spots over Sale.
If Atlanta gives them Swanson, they effectively turned Shelby Miller into Chris Sale. That’s not bad
Nocahoma what did the Cubs trade for half a season of chapman? What did the athletics trade for half a season of shark and hammel? Price will be high and will cost any team who wants sale. No discounts here. A team will suffer an injury, have underperforming starters, will need that piece to give them a competitive advantage that year for a World Series. Price come down lol this guys not even a troll he’s just flat out stupid
pullhitter445..
you do realize that sometimes mid season trades net more than even off season deals because the teams that make the acquisition actually KNOW they are in a playoff hunt (or already high chance). That isn’t the case in all deals of course, but often teams seeking help midseason are willing to pay a bit more because of the certainty they see.
With that said, I firmly believe the White Sox want a fortune and I definitely think that whichever organization deals for him will end up regretting the trade over the long haul.
Lol your one of those
They’re NOT moving down tiers what are you, nuts?!Pony up or no Sale for you!!
no Sale no cares given….White Sox dont trade Sale for the highest offer…they will continue to have one of the worst MLB teams along with one of the worst Farm systems….White Sox are the ones that NEED to rebuild….
pullhitter445….Difference is this….both teams traded players that were blocked…and had little to no use other than as trade bait….The players White Sox are demanding for Sale are not blocked….they create holes to fill 1 hole….
I’d rather keep folty. Whats the point lf trading folty plus our future pitching for 3 years of 1 guy? I knkw hes legit, but Id rather wait and possibly hsve a few legit guys with tons of control for cheap for 1 guy.
Atlanta would absolutely deal folty and/or ender in a sale deal. No idea how you could assume or think otherwise. Especially for folty.
I said Jbradley- Devers -ERod -Kopech and Hernandes for Sale!!!
it is fairly simple the FO has said they wont….and you can add Swanson to that list as well
1
The point is ATL would give up some good pitching, but still have more than enough good young pitching. Even if parting with Folty and/or Allard, etc. we’d still have a mountain of other pitching prospects that could be even better like Max Fried (who reminds me of Glavine), Ian Anderson, Joey Wentz, Touki Touissaint, Lucas Sims, Ricardo Sanchez, Mike Soroka, Patrick Weigel (minor league pitcher of the year), Kyle Fuller, etc.
Yes, Folty has shown a lot promise, but Sale is an ace – there is no comparison. If you had a 2017 of Sale, Teheran, Dickey, Colon, Garcia then you could effectively ease the development of some future arms and give them some starts (when ready), depending on them more in 2018 when many of these 1 year deals will be up (some have options). Great thing about Coppy’s dealings is that there’s options for a lot of flexibility: Dickey has an option on ’18, Colon is a 1-year deal, Garcia is rebounding and would be a nice trade chip at the Deadline if pitching anywhere near his career stats, etc.
Why do you have “prospects” in quotations?
They would need to give up a lot more than those two for Sale.
Have to give top talent to get a pitcher like Sale. White Sox aren’t idiots
Yeah I don’t see the Red Sox or anyone else for that matter giving up a JBJ Plus a Moncado and that’s probably were things that stalled and will be really surprised if any team would go that far see one probably JBJand some pieces
Yeah I totally agree white socks are in much dire need and the Red Sox and that’s a fact
NocaHoma,NO SALE FOR YOU!!
The whole trouble with being in denial is the White Sox have basically put most of their team up.. Turner. Swanson not available and my guess Moncada not either.. goodluck chisox fans
Thank you! It’s delusional to think they wouldn’t trade those 2 in a sale trade. Even starting with those 2 the sox hang up as they are no where close to what the sox want in return. Folty reminds me so much of evoldi, maybe not the injuries but overall elite stuff that they are unable to harness
I can see the Braves saying no to Swanson but how can you claim the White Sox will not get Foltzy or Ender and have to come down to the next tier?
Who is the next tier? You think you will get Chris Sale for a box of balls? I mean I see dumb ignorant statements here often but are you so clueless you think you get Chris Sale without trading anyone good?
100% honest question – Can someone please enlighten me as to why Folty would be “untouchable” or hard to trade? Was he ever a highly regarded prospect or anything like that? Looking at the numbers, there’s a lot left to be desired if you ask me… He’s been pretty mediocre at best everywhere outside of AA in 2013. And he’s not THAT young… Maybe I’m missing something?
Its braves fans overvaluing their prospects. Especially Folty and Swanson. Best comp for Swanson I’ve seen is Jed Lowrie. And those jeter comps are just fabulous.
how exactly does fried remind you of glavine? most of the scouting reports ive read compare him to cole hamels…Fried might throw his offspeed stuff as glavine threw his fastballs
No you’re not, it’s pretty simple really because it’s just fans of a team who are way overvaluing their prospects, who have yet to do anything remotely meaningful at the highest stage which is the majors. The only exception here is Swanson, Dansby will be one of the top 5 shortstops in all of baseball next year the guy is a stud. I’m still flabbergasted at the notion that Arizona flipped not only him but also Inciarte for such a turd like Shelby Miller geez talk about getting screwed. Anyways if the Braves are serious about competing they’ll trade for Sale the guy is insanely good there is no other pitcher who is available that even comes close to how good this guy is. If I were the braves I’d be willing to give up anyone not named Swanson and only one of either Teheran or Wisler but not both.
Your a moron swanson is gonna be a stud and a 300 hitter year in and year out
That’s too much
The Red Sox are not going to make any blockbuster deals of any kind this year! DUMBrowski is too stupid to make the moves needed to push this team over the top. This team only has a 3-4 year window to win but the NOG and GM are TOO DAMN DUMB to realize it.
Yeah he only built two World Series champions in Miami and before that stocked the Expos farm system with ridiculous good talent.
They call it posturing… and maybe Arizona can enter the fray…, they like to over pay, just ask the Braves!
New man in charge Dave Stewart is gone.
Such a wiener
Braves don’t need him
You’d think so, after Colon, Garcia, and Dickey. However they seem to be the current frontrunners.
What about the Nats oh by the way I hate the Nats Go Mets!
I’m a huge Sale advocate but NO to trading Ender Inciarte AND Albies for him. NO!
Agreed.
Then you don’t get Sale. Either Swanson or Albies MUST be the START of a package for Sale – and there needs to be A LOT more (ie Enciarte) included.
They should trade Swanson
Are you the GM??? I dont think so…neither are we…no one knows who will or wont be included if or when White Sox will come down on asking price…..
Do you run the sox? I guarantee you’re gonna be extremely disappointed with the return the sox get.
Thank you!
Never going to happen. Not a player in the entire White Sox system is worth Swanson
lol coming from a team that won 67 games last year in the Worst division in baseball
Really? Chris Sale, who is an established ace with a team friendly contract and Adam Eaton, an established 4-6 WAR outfielder, are both definitely worth Swanson. It just doesn’t make sense for the Braves to move him. If the Braves felt they were one pitcher away from being serious contenders, Swanson would not be off the table. I’m not even a Braves fan and I agree that they shouldn’t trade Swanson for Sale at this time, but to say that “not a player in the entire White Sox system is worth Swanson” is ignorant.
I am a Pirates fan, so not saying it as a Braves fan. Simply true: White Six do not have a single player in their entire system worth Swanson. He will be a cornerstone of the Braves for twenty years barring injury.
Not ignorant at all. Only a true moron would think any player in the White Sox system is worth what Swanson means for the Braves. Swanson, barring injury, will be a cornerstone of the Braves for twenty years. Their best everyday player since Chipper Jones.
This is no delusional. The best player for the next twenty years? Seriously? He has played all of 38 MLB games and you are comparing him to Chipper Jones? He hit 277 in the minors with average power at best.
People way over value prospects. It blows me away. They rather have the prospect who potentially will be great ( more times than not they do not turn out great) instead of the player who is great.
I would take Quintana over Swanson let alone Sale. Quintanta is a proven ace in the american league.
You’re arguing about what the Braves fans feel is the future. I don’t see where they said he’d be the best player in the MLB.
He”ll be a cornerstone player for the Braves, to lock down SS for the future.
Really not that hard to believe. I wouldn’t trade him for Sale, not even straight up.
I’m not arguing that Swanson is or isn’t the future. I agree that the Braves would be stupid to trade him. But pure value wise (right now), both Chris Sale and Adam Eaton have more value than him. If the Braves were a Chris Sale or Adam Eaton away from becoming a serious contender, they would trade Swanson in a heartbeat. Let’s not forget that the D’Backs were the ones who traded him (in the overpay of the century) so Swanson obviously has a price tag.
No they wouldn’t, are serious with that statement. That’s like saying the Cubs would trade Kris Bryant away to pick up the piece they need to win. I’m not saying Swanson is as good or even comparable to Bryant but Swanson is the face of the franchise. If the braves traded him for Chris Sale straight up, Coppy would say no, and that’s a fact.
If that’s true, then what are you wasting all these words for? You’re basically saying “A trade for Sale isn’t happening, period, because the Braves and their fans are delusional.” If that’s the case, you could just say that and be done with it. Move on.
A trade could happen without Swanson IMO, I don’t want it to happen but we definitely have enough pieces to land him, but honestly I feel bad for the white sox organization trying to get what Sale is actually worth is nearly impossible to do, but hey if the braves can fleece the Diamondbacks for Shelby Miller I guess there is hope.
Bryant is an already established MVP, Swanson hasn’t even proved himself in the majors (yet). So thats comparing apples and oranges.
You are talking about one of the top five pitchers in baseball, still in his twenties, with controllable years at a very low salary. Much more valuable than Swanson heads up.
Guys a good record in Sept is no guarantee that the next season the Braves will be ready to compete growing pains guys.. they are still a season or two off in my opinion.. and just think the White Sox are trying to get the Red Sox to up the ante with that statement that came out about others interested and the Sox not paying enough or wanting to
Amen
You bucs4ever are very ignorant, and clearly have no idea how baseball works. Swanson alone couldn’t get sale. To get a top 5 pitcher in baseball you have to give up more than you want to and Swanson is not enough.
To go on about no one being worth Swanson, there are a lot of scouts and executive that believe he will not hit enough to be an elite player. He has elite defensive abilities but not everyone is very high on him. That’s coming from PROFESSIONALS who evaluate talent for a living and are the best in the world at doing so. And I know for a fact that they are more knowledgeable on swansons abilities than you are, otherwise you would have their job
You braves fans are a real head case! As a Yankees fan I know to get sale, Sanchez and Frazier would be gone. A catcher with a rocket for an arm with 40 homer potential is more valuable than the next andrelton Simmons.
Whi is this catcher you speak of. Schwarber?
Gary Sanchez? Schwarber shouldn’t be considered a catcher. He’s the next David Ortiz (that’s a compliment) as he has no real position and is a liability anywhere you put him in the field
The White Sox do not have a player worth Swanson? Really? Swanson looks to be a solid long term shortstop but not a star player. Braves fans are delisional
Hahaha so the Braves would say no to Sale for Swanson straight up? Hahahahah so funny. Oh its a “fact” you say? You are a troll
Exactly. He’s just commenting on an article. No one ever claimed to be GM here
I literally just said that, I was just saying you do not trade the face of a franchise.
Listen guys braves fans are not saying Swanson is better than Chris Sale, what we are saying is we would not trade him for Sale because he means more to our franchise then best free agent on the market.
Just wondering if you were the Dodgers would you trade Corey Seager straight up for Sale?
Are you SERIOUS??? Seagar is worth three Swanson’s
Seager, at this point, and probably in the future is better than Swanson and it isn’t even really close. The braves would trade Swanson straight up for Seager in the blink of an eye.
You still didn’t answer my question would you trade Corey seager for Sale straight up? I’m not saying Swanson is as good as Corey seager, I am saying his value to our organization is like that of Corey seager.
A Sox fan here and no you don’t trade Seager for Sale straight up. Not strictly because he’s the face of the franchise (granted there’s value in that) but more so because he’s a MVP candidate at age 22 and because of his TALENT. Swanson does not project to have near the power hit tool combo that Seager does. We too had a supposed face of the franchise recently. Maybe you’re familiar with him, his name is Gordon Beckham
Agreed
No I would not trade Seager straight up for Sale there is almost no one I would trade Seager for in baseball straight up if I were the Dodgers.
Ditto.
Yeah, I would want more years of control to trade both of them. However, that may be what it takes. Sale is a proven player, Albies is not. Sometimes you have to “give a little to get a little”.
On a side note, if the Braves get him, do you guys think they have a legit shot at a wild card berth?
More years of control? He’s under contract at $12M for 2017 then has club options of $12.5M for 2018 and $13.5M for 2019. That’s an elite pitcher at a very friendly price for THREE seasons!
Albies allard sims and either Touki or Blair should get it done
Oh man, I didn’t realize there was an option for 2019 too.
Problem is you trade what they want Braves wont compete till 2020 or beyond…Sale is not the missing link for them
Blair had a 6 era in NL east so coming to Al he should cut it down to 3.5?
Yeah…I missed that the first time too.
no chance that is enough for sale.
Yeah .a .290 slap hitter with no power and a defense first prospect with no future power projection are real hard to find these days!
Exactly
BS
Just don’t think that many teams that can pull this off for Sale, and don’t see Bravos going there just yet… yes they want s buzz for new stadium , same reason Tampa starts the Longeria moves… not happening, he is the face of this franchise that basically plays in a dump .. attendance bad, and really some of the same issues that Balt has… tight owner, doesn’t care about competing, just about profit
Sorry, but the package will ultimately need to include most likely either Ender or Albies. I would rather trade Albies as much as that hurts than Ender. Mallex is good, but has not proven enough in a short amount of time and our system is stocked with guys with similar or better tools (i.e. Ronald Acuna, Rey Patrick-Didder, Christian Pache, etc.). It would be an enticing package for Sale if including Albies, Newcombe and Mallex Smith (with other minor pieces). That way you keep Ender, Swanson (untouchable) and other presumed arms including Fried, Ian Anderson and whomever else not traded: Soroka, Weigel, etc.
I like the development of Travis Demeritte, though he strikes out a lot, he has a lot of power and gets on-base a lot with above average defense. There’s a lot to work with there.
Yeah If that package is headlined by Folty and Ender, no Albies for them. I could come off other prospects like Acuna/Riley/Ruiz among the plethora of pitchers. But if Ender is in, no chance at Albies
Braves are the perfect fit here.
They can keep Swanson and still give 5 top 100 prospects(according to mlb.com rankings) for Sale.
The Red Sox can keep Moncada or Benintendi and do the same thing with higher ranked prospects than Atlanta!
The Braves are NOT going to sacrifice their future for a pitcher, great as he is. This trade will NOT happen.
Why do all these kids here keep talking about including Swanson? Hell i think the Sox are smart enough to know to not ask for him.
Trade any of there overhyped pitchers and hitters other than Ender and Ozzie..
Who’s overhyped?
Newcomb, Jenkins, Wisler, Blair, Torki and others!
None of the pitchers they acquired are special!
Newcombs going to be good I think
Lol
To opetgsdeliverance
So it’s apparently common knowledge that these guys are overhyped, but you don’t think a professional baseball front office and scouting department would know that before trading their best player for them?
If everybody knows they’re overhyped, the White Sox do, too.
(P.S. – I don’t think they’re overhyped, per se. All of them have legitimate talent, but the problem is that all of them also have big question marks (control, off-speed pitches, platoon, makeup, etc.) or sketchy injury histories.)
Look, when are all you people going to realize that the Sox do not HAVE to trade Sale and that the price won’t be coming down at all? If they can’t get an absolutely huge haul (ie, Benintendi AND Moncada-plus; Albies AND Inciarte-plus; Turner AND Giolito-plus), then they will just keep him.
I agree with this statement
I understand your concept, but the first and third suggested trades are entirely too much.
Perhaps – but “entirely too much” is what the White Sox would insist on to trade Sale. Otherwise, they will keep him.
Agree 100% the white sox can keep him and continue to do nothing for the next 3 years
What this guy said. Anyone who pays a price like that, any of those packages, is a fool. Just let the Sox continue to be irrelevant and look at archer or the next pitcher out there. Just too much to pay for anyone
Agreed Nintendo isn’t involved and neither would trea Turner.
On a side note scaed do u think that’s a distinct possibility that cws have to trade sale after all? He did have an issue with the front office and it’s not like a superstar players haven’t run themselves out of a town before. Like Manny in Boston or donaldson in Oakland. Just because he’s under contract for them doesn’t mean he can actually come back to the team. Not saying that’s the case but we don’t know how much the Laroche and jersey incident effected his relationship with the front office.
Archer won’t be any cheaper.
Yea because if you look past Sale to Archer then you think you get Archer for the crap you were offering for Sale. Good luck.
The White Sox do not need to trade Sale. Period. This has nothing to do with LaRouche
Or jerseys? Not saying it’s Laroche himself but maybe his antics fell out of favor with the front office wouldn’t be a first time. It just seems like there’s to much talk in trading him for it not to be just weighing offers probably disliked by the FO and are just trying to get the most out of it rightfully so.
And when are you going to understand that the White Sox are the ones trying to trade him? They made that clear for awhile now. Sure they’ll keep him and then like every other team that waits too long, get exactly what their trade partner wants them to have. Stop acting like you have first hand knowledge of the White Sox FO.
Just because you want “player A. And player B. And player C.” Means exactly jack all.
Seems like you don’t understand that there’s a HUGE difference between “trying to trade him” and being willing to trade him. The White Sox fall in the latter.
The white sox demeanor this off season seems to be pointing towards the former though. The sox are doing the right thing by asking high, but when his contract gets shorter and shorter, teams will be even less willing to trade potential corner stone every day athletes for a player who plays 30-35 games a year.
White Sox are not dumping Sale. They are willing to move him. I guess you do not understand how things work. You act like if the Sox listen to offers or make offers then somehow they have no choice but to take the best offer and that is not the case
They will come down….it is almost assured now that you cant even get a 1st round draft pick for a QO….he will be traded….otherwise there is 0 chance of the white sox rebuilding as they continue to suck and be the worst team in Chicago..
Braves and White Sox will not be trade partners in regards to Sale. Braves do not need an ace pitcher right now and would be fools to give up the farm for one pitcher. Braves will not be ready to seriously compete until 2018 or 2019, and the free agent pitching available for those two years will be very good. Braves can sign two free agent pitchers and not lose a single player and only lose lower round draft pick slots. White Sox need to keep Sale and try to win the AL Central now, a very winnable division. White Sox will forfeit Chicago to the fuzzy wuzzies from the North Side if they go into rebuild mode now and have to wait 3 to 5 years before having a real chance to win the division,
Chicago is already a cubs city except for maybe 2005
That’s fine they can keep him. They can keep finishing in the cellar every year as well until his contract is up!
No team has to trade somebody.
But this business is all about winning the World Series.
The White Sox are not going to win a World Series in the next three years. They don’t have the talent. They don’t have the farm system. And they don’t have the money. It’s blatantly obvious that the White Sox need to start some form of rebuilding if they want to compete anytime soon.
In three years, they are not going to have Chris Sale.
When that happens, they’re either A) going to have one of the top farm systems in baseball because they got a nice haul by trading him and drafted high for a few years, or B) have the same bottom half farm system they have now.
Not trading Sale will push Chicago’s chance of winning a championship back by at least 5-10 years.
And you can bet that the White Sox front office knows this. And sure, they have two and a half years to trade him, but his value is going to decrease month after month.
I cringe every time I open this site or Twitter. I’m afraid I’m gonna see the Braves gave up the damn farm for Sale.
I’d honestly rather go for a 3B upgrade. I like Adonis, but someone like Todd Frazier hitting between Kemp and Markakis would be really exciting in my opinion. Cost a lot less, too.
The rotation seriously isn’t as bad as people are saying. The lineup needs 1 guy to get over the hump (again, in my opinion. I’m sure someone will try to tell me how much they suck and how big an idiot I am… But whatever) and the bullpen should be really nasty. I’m honestly excited to watch them next year. While it’d be awesome to see Sale on the back of a Braves jersey, I’ll probably vomit at the package Chicago would receive.
No the rotation sucks!
Great answer man. Super informative.
Right? This is why I hate posting here sometimes. Ha
I think a package revolving around Ender Inciarte would be a great thing for the Sox to target. Their OF would be locked up long term and extremely athletic, with Ender in center and Eaton staying in right.
I think they would need A TON more than Inciarte. He’s not an elite OF, merely very good. And Eaton may not even be around.
Look, Scaed17, the Sox aren’t on this site looking for any Braves fan’s comment that you didn’t shut down. Chill out. In fact, everyone needs to take a deep breath, put away the exclamation marks and understand a reasonable deal will either go down or it won’t.
Braves and White Sox will not be trade partners in regards to Sale. Braves do not need an ace pitcher right now and would be fools to give up the farm for one pitcher. Braves will not be ready to seriously compete until 2018 or 2019, and the free agent pitching available for those two years will be very good. Braves can sign two free agent pitchers and not lose a single player and only lose lower round draft pick slots. White Sox need to keep Sale and try to win the AL Central now, a very winnable division. White Sox will forfeit Chicago to the fuzzy wuzzies from the North Side if they go into rebuild mode now and have to wait 3 to 5 years before having a real chance to win the division,
ahhh braves fans. you got an insane package for Shelby miller but don’t think anything close to that is needed for arguably a top 5 pitcher in the game. Go find a top 10 pitcher in the game under team control who won’t cost at your number 1 and at least 3 more of your top 10 prospects.
Braves fans just repeating what FO and team reporters say…not surprising…Astro’s not willing to give up Bregman, ATL not giving up Swanson Foltz or Ender, Nats not giving up Trea Turner….Boston not going to give up JBJ, Moncada, or Benintendi…..
But the difference is, out of all the players you listed there, the three Braves are the least desirable, IMO.
great I not a fan of the braves trading for sale….he is not the missing link to make the Braves playoff ready….and giving the White Sox that they probably deserve will set the Braves back 5 year imo….If the Braves did the deal I dont think they become play off contenders until well have Sale would leave as FA…
Yeah, I honestly think it’s a little bizarre. But they seem determined to put a decent product on the field to open the new stadium. Hopefully that doesn’t set them back a couple years from being a serious threat. They seem to be cutting it short a little.
Them grammarz
The Braves need to chill and trust the process. This team is not ready to compete, don’t sell the farm just to get Sale because he won’t be enough to make this team be a true contender.. After the Braves fleeced the Diamondbacks on the same kind of thing, you think they would know better. And yes Sale is a much better pitcher than Miller, but same concept. Team thinks it is ready to compete now when it really is not.
This spoke to me.
Honestly, the Dodgers will get nothing, go nowhere. They refuse to trade upper lever prospects, and the Kershaw window will soon expire. They should give up,the farm for Kinsler and Verlander, and make a good run in 2017. Won’t happen, though. Cheapskates!
A Team who is willing to put up $200 million plus in payroll is cheapskates?
As I’ve said before. The Sox should hang on to Sale along with Quintana and Eaton until mid season. Give Rick Renteria a chance with this talented core. It’s not like the division is out reach. Teams will still line up with good trade packages at that point.
The problem then is you’re not going to have teams willing to give up a part of their starting lineup in the middle of a playoff chase.
I think the Dodgers would be the best fit for Sale, honeslty
It sounds like the Nats and Dodgers have made Sale their first priority. Sox will want 4 good players, Nats give the Sox Giolitto, Robles, Taylor, and Feede. The Dodgers will have to give Urias, Puig, Bellinger, and Alverez.
I like the Dodgers offer with one tweak, swap De Leon for Puig….of course if the White Sox included Frazier and Robertson, a couple more (maybe not as highly ranked) prospects can be thrown deal towards White Sox
Alex Vergo in deal in place of Urias
Im so relieved to read that there will be no more big moves.. I take it they are passing on EE!!! Id much rather see Eric Hosmer in an Astros uniform next offseason and keeping our farm instead of 2 years of Sale..
Rotation needs another piece but not at the cost of Sale or Archer.. Hopefully Luhnow will come up with something in the winter meetings
How are we gonna get Hosmer exactly without making a “big move?”
Boy
I said next off season. Hosmer is entering his final year of his contract in 2017.
He is perfect for what we need at 1st base. If Reed makes progress in 2017 we can use him at DH. I think 2017 is Gattis’s last year too. Not sure about that though.
As a Red Sox fan, I would love to add Sale, but I am making Moncada and Benintendi untouchable in trade talks for most players in the MLB. I just feel that both players are going to be All-Stars, with Moncada potentially being a top five player in the league. There is so much risk involved with pitching, especially with Sale’s funky delivery, to trade either surefire future All-Star. I know that I may be seen as overvaluing prospects, but I feel strongly about the futures of these two particular players.
In a package for Sale, I would offer JBJ, ERod, Devers, Kopech, and Swihart. I would be willing to make adjustments to this package, however, including Moncada or Benintendi is a deal breaker for me.
The package above may not be enough for the White Sox, or could be topped by the Nationals or Braves. At that point, I would walk away from negotiations, and move for forward with Moncada and Benintendi in the fold for years to come.
I think to get Sale it costs JBJ, Moncada and Erod or Pomeranz. I am pretty sure DD would not do that and neither would I but I think that is what it would take to get Sale. I think the White Sox should just keep him until the Trade Deadline and see where they are at. With their starting rotation they could be in the thick of the race.
Really hope that Rosenthal is correct on the Astros being out on Sale. Asking price is way too high. Astros don’t even need an ace. Need a 2 or 3 in the rotation type of guy. Also need Keuchel to bounce back and pitch like we all know he can and McCullers will be coming into this season fully healthy. No reason to trade the farm system away for an ace.
Agreed!
WSox should keep Sale the entire time they remain a non contending team. Then when he’s no longer worth much and is past his prime go get a B prospect for him. Mediocrity deserves no better….
You people urging Coppy to get Sale will be the same ones crying for his termination 3 years from now. I don’t even know why we are in this thing. Wasn’t it Coppy that said you develop number 1 pitchers, it looks like we might be trading 3 potential number 1
This. All of this. THANK YOU. Ha
I won’t be surprised if it ends up being another team that gets him, one that the reporters aren’t even mentioning.
Up here in Canada, Stephen Brunt was on a show yesterday and mentioned the Jays have been quietly lurking in the background on Sale. I don’t doubt they’ve asked about him but I just don’t see how the Jays could put up a competitive package next to the Red Sox, Braves, Dodgers or Nats. Unless those 4 teams decide to go elsewhere and Jays swoop in but I don’t see that being even remotely plausible or likely.
Looks like Braves fans are feeling how Red Sox fans felt this summer when we were told we’d have to give up Benintendi plus Moncada and more for Teheran, lmfao.
That was always A bad joke
Winter Meetings are from tomorrow (12/4) to Thursday (12/8). You can probably expect all Sale rumors to be done by Wednesday or Thursday.
If Chris Sale’s not traded during the winter meetings, the rumors will surely continue unless the White Sox take him off the block. Spring training is still more than two months away with opening day another month and a half beyond that.
Sale has 3 years of team control so it would take a severe drop in production, an injury or the White Sox becoming legitimate contenders for those conversations to finally stop.
Hoping the Dodgers stay away from him. Not worth what they are asking for and if you lookj at his stats he is on the decline
JT here’s hoping the braves have enough sense to stay out of it
What stats are those
One thing for sure Sale is a game changer for whoever gets him, but he will cost a lot in prospects.
If the Sox can’t get the Deal they want they should just add ……. Trade Robertson Trade Melky ……. And sign a Few player that can hit …… If they suck then at Trade Deadline do the Same dance ………. It’s not like there a horrible team they just need to hit the Ball
Folty, Mallex, Newcombe, Demerrite, Touki + a couple lottery tickets is about all I feel Atlanta will offer. Thats a string package but i dont think its enough. Nats or Boston is where i believe he will land.
I would guess Nat’s
To the Dodgers Fans ……. If you add Sale You have the best 1….2 in all of baseball …… I no Kershaw is the best pitcher in the World and Sale is Declining (lol) Kershaw makes twice as much ….. Seems like he misses 2 monthes every season ……. And is that True Bulldog in the Playoffs
miss 2 months every year? Pretty impressive to have started 30+ games 6 of the last 8 seasons while missing two months.
To the Braves Fans …… lol I see post about not being able to compete until 2020 if you trade prospects for Sale ……. If you Trade for Sale I believe you will be in the Wildcard next year ….. At the end of the Year the Braves were hitting the cover off the ball if you go Sale Tehran Folty and those back end guys you would have a good Rotation ……… The mets aren’t world beaters hitting the ball and they had 1 pitcher last year and almost won the Wildcard
Some of you are cracking me up. Do you think you’re going to get one of the best pitchers in baseball with three affordable years left on his contract for mid-level prospects? It’s going to hurt quite a bit to get him. Really Braves fans, you’re not going to give up a 19 year-old who is unproven?
No, I think reading the comments here it’s plain to see Braves fans do not want Sale because of the cost, so there is justification for not wanting to trade top prospects to get him. I’m in agreement with them. Let the Nats, Dodgers or whoever else wants to pay the kings ransom pick him up. Makes more sense for those teams anyway since they are playoff contenders. Adding Chris Sale will not make the Braves playoff contenders.
Word is the White Sox won’t do business with the Cubs. I’d b more worried about my divisional rivals. If the. cubs offered Soler, Happ, CNdelario, Underwood, and another top 15 pitching prospect, would they not have to think a little bit harder??
Soler pulls a hamstring tying up his cleats! Don’t think the Sox want him. If the Cubs put somebody in the deal like Baez or Contreras I would trade with them. They want somebody off a major league roster.
I would rather see the cubs go after Odorizzi. They will need somebody to take Arrieta’s place because there is no way they are keeping him. Plus Lackey will be gone as well.
Glad the Astros are out on sale. I remember hearing Chicago asked for correa at the trade deadline this past season. Ask get get much higher than that. Whoever they are asking for now is probably just as ridiculous.
With the Garcia trade I think the Braves are open to trading Folty in a package for Sale. And if the White Sox trade Sale it is a sign of a rebuild so no reason for Inciarte. With that the package I see could be Folty, Mallex, Newcomb & Demeritte for Sale
My guess is that either Swanson or Albies has to be in the package and since Swanson isn’t then Albies would have to be in any package that the Braves trade.
He has to be. You cant say no to Swanson and then tell them no to Albies. He has to be included.
What about Maitan you will need to put him the package too if I’m the White Sox.
Braves FA released a statement saying Swanson and Maitan are both off the table completely.
Then I highly doubt they get Sale.
Then we don’t want Sale easy as that
Someone is going to bite because all the teams involved are basically offering the same prospect package. So, someone is going to want to get it done and offer up their number 1 prospect. Whether that’s Bregman, Swanson, Moncada, or Turner remains to be seen. But once someone does that might trigger the flood gates where everyone does. Because can you see the Nats offering Turner because Mike Rizzo really wants to take that rotation, including Sale, into a 7 game series against the Cubs. Then, the Braves offer up Swanson just to try to Keep Sale away from the Nats.
It’s basically one giant game of poker. One that the White Sox have all the leverage because they DO NOT have to trade Sale unless the get exactly what they want
or every team says fk it and the white sox keep sale and continue to be awful while not building for the future.
We saw it with arizona last year, taking an everyday player out of your lineup (bregman, swanson, turner) to trade them for sale, makes little since. Assuming Sale is about a 5.5 win player and those guys are 2-3, you are only adding about 2-3 wins, which makes acquiring sale a lot less of a positive than it would appear on it’s face.
Here is what I dont get….Sale plays 30-32 games a year and has never won more than 17 of them how much is that really worth??? Most SP’s have a down years when being traded….and even worse when moving leagues…Sale is a career 3 ERA guy….he didnt power the white sox to the playoffs…in fact i dont think Sale has ever seen the playoffs….Never won a Cy Young….He has given the White Sox front office fits…..and has shown younger guys it is ok to violate ownership’s rules…..Sale is good…but not as good as what the White Sox want in return….they can keep him….
You’re right. You don’t get it.
1) A starter’s win-loss record is pretty close to meaningless. That relies on significantly more than the pitcher, unless they’re pitching in the NL and shutout the other team and drive in their team’s only run(s). Then you might have an argument.
2) Most of the time when a pitcher has a down year after changing leagues it’s going from the NL to the AL because they don’t get the free outs (pitchers hitting).
3) You say “career 3 ERA guy” like it’s a bad thing. First, that’s in the American League, which is absolutely ridiculous. I just quickly looked at career stats for pitchers in the last 30 years, and that ranks #11 overall. Every player above him pitched (or pitches) in the National League except Pedro, who had a career 2.95 ERA, good for 9th overall. Do you not think that Pedro was a great pitcher because his career 3 ERA?
4) 1 player on a garbage team can’t carry you to the playoffs. It’s really that simple. Mike Trout has played in a whopping 3 playoff games, and he’s an every day player. Is that his fault?
5) Cy Young award doesn’t mean as much as you think it does. It still focuses WAY too much on pitcher wins, which as I said above is a garbage stat. Even if you do want to use Cy Young’s, he has finished top 5 in each of the last 4 years, which speaks to his consistent greatness.
He’s every bit as good as what the White Sox want in return, especially when you factor in his ridiculously team friendly contract for the next 3 years and this garbage starting pitching market.
Problem is he will still only win 17-20 games…a halfway decent SP will win 10….the package the white sox want is not worth 7-10 wins….especially from the Braves….they are further than 7-10 win away from being a contender….
I don’t disagree with you from the Braves perspective. I don’t think they’re any good right now. I don’t know why they are even THAT interested. For a contender, or a team close to it, he’d make a huge difference.
regardless of what people think he is worth he still only plays 30-32 games and year and still only has ever won at most of 17 of them….The SP market has gotten completely ridiculous….
Again, “wins” are not an important stat for a starter. By that logic, you don’t think any starting pitchers are THAT valuable. Heck, Kershaw has won 21 games twice in his career. Outside of that, the highest he has ever won is 16.
Porcello won 22 last year. Is he more valuable than Kershaw?
Please stop using pitcher “wins” as if it were a meaningful stat. You’re making my head hurt.
He’s only worth what another team will give up.
Yah, that’s not how it works. If he were on the open market, that’d be true. But seeing as he’s under contract with the White Sox for 3 more years, he holds a ton of value to them whether they keep or trade him. So if a team only wants to give up scraps, he’s still worth significantly more than what that team will give up. Again, they are far away from NEEDING to trade him.
Atlanta a rebuilding team is not trading it’s best player with 6 years of control for a starter no matter how good with only 3 years of control especially one that’s flush with pitching prospects. I sincerely doubt trea Turner is involved he’s the centerpiece to their offense next to Harper. Both of those teams have more high end prospects to trade they don’t need to involve either to pique cws interest.
I think Braves get both Sale and Todd Frazier without parting with Dansby or Albies… Sox want Folty and Mallex Smith, plus pitching prospects and maybe Ruiz, Demeritte, or something similar. Steep price from Braves, but Sale is worth it and this would not set back the Braves system too badly.
haha, keep dreaming
Gee, can you please send back Markaikas too? That’d put this deal over the top for the White Sox.
Lol
that package is a laughable offer for sale
RBI, You aren’t getting Sale without Swanson or Albies.. Forget about Sale and Frazier.
I disagree. Braves have the deepest farm system in baseball. Could get it done with something like Newcomb, Wentz, Riley, Demeritte, Folty, Weigel, Peterson, Pache and Acuna. The problem is that’s too many kids for one player. It’s just not gonna happen.
From a life time Braves fan…
please NO Sale.
I’m afraid the cost for him will haunt the Braves for years in the future and will make the haul they gave up for Texieria look like little league. It will hurt to acquire Sale and then truly how much better are you going to be?
Trades are supposed to benefit both teams – a trade for Sale will hurt, but what eases the pain is having a bonafide ace without having to pay $200 million for him (yet). Coppy stated at the beginning that how they’d most likely acquire top-tier talent is not through contracts, but through farm depth, which is why he’s worked himself to the bone through waiver wires, drafts and trades to acquire the most high-end talent that could grow and mature into something that either could benefit the Braves or another team, making them valuable currency in trade talks.
A trade for Sale would not be Teixiera 2.0 for a few reasons. We’re much deeper on the farm now than we were at Schuerholz/Wren’s tenure. While Scherholz did a decent job with the farm, Wren did little to nothing to develop and/or draft well to restock the system. The trade wouldn’t have hurt so much if Wren hadn’t run off the same scouts that found Freeman, Heyward, Tommy Hanson, Simmons, etc. Those scouts returned when Wren left. While Coppy knows the farm better than opposing GMs, and certainly better than Wren knew his farm, while he’d have to give up some good pieces, I believe he’d also be trading some talent that he doesn’t believe will be as good as some other pieces we’ve got at lower levels. For ex: losing Mallex Smith would hurt, but Ronald Acuna looks like a superstar even now. He’ll be in the top-100 overall prospect lists and can benefit as soon as 2018-19. Losing Newcombe would hurt, but it would allow us to keep others like Friend, Allard, Soroka, Ian Anderson, Weigel (unless any are traded).
It’s not even just about the remaining years on Sale’s contract. Acquiring Sale gives the Braves a chance to extend him long-term in the interim. Braves have quite a bit to spend in the coming seasons, as well.
Folty, Albies, Newcomb and Mallex for Sale.
As a Braves fan I’d feel ok with this. Sure, giving up Albies hurts, but after seeing Demeritte play for the HD Mavericks and also in the AFL, it lessens the pain. Having Sale negates the need for Folty or Newcomb and Mallex has no place to play right now.
Best thing is for Reinsdorf to get serious and allow Hahn to cut the dead weight, stop shopping in the clearance section and give him the financial flexibility to fix this team properly.
If you build it…
Finally someone else gets it. If the sox were truly ever going for it and trying to compete over the last several years like they claim, who is their major free agent acquisition? Austin Jackson, Jimmy Rollins, Mat Latos, Melky Cabrera?
Their Largest contract in team history is Abreu’s for $68 million guaranteed. That is a joke!
They could have signed Fowler or Desmond last year and made a major difference, instead they shopped in the clearance section and got what they payed for.
I would argue that no team with as much high end talent as the Sox has under taken a full rebuild. They have Sale, Quintana, Rodon, Robertson, Jones, Eaton, Abreu, Frazier, and Anderson. It is embarrassing to have this type of talent and not even compete for a playoff spot.
Reinsdorf needs to open up the wallet or sell the team. Unfortunately I know neither will ever happen. They will probably trade Sale and the “headliner” of the deal will turn into the next avi garcia or gordon beckham.
Frustrated Sox fan
Everybody else gets it. Everybody else also knows that it won’t happen, therefor it’s not worth discussing. There are 2 realistic options:
1) Retool with the scrap bin pieces like the last decade.
2) Rebuild
Look what the Phillies got and where each player ranked that year and the fact the Rangers gave up nobody other than a salary relief injured SP from the major league roster and tell me that Chris Sale negotiations start with Swanson or Albies.
Folty, Mallex, Newcomb, Wiegel & Ruiz absolutely gets that deal.
White Sox get a young CF with lead off potential, a Top 20 LHSP prospect, a potential starting 3B when Frazier leaves/traded, A potential middle-top of rotation arm who at worst could be a dominate closer and even though not ranked a SP that was the organizations pitcher of the year.
The Phillies got all minor league talent in their deal without giving up the number 1 or 3 prospect in their organization.
The White Sox would be getting 3 major league players and a Top Prospect and another SP whose upside isn’t as high but has already had more success. If you think things need to be twerked and different guys added in fine I could see that. Maybe not Ruiz and Wiegel instead Touki and Riley or maybe instead Newcomb they want Allard but to think a trade has to start with Swanson or Albies is just stupid because history says the Rangers got Hamels without having to give up Profar, Gallo or Mazaro.
So first off, the Phillies and White Sox are in different positions; the Phillies were obviously rebuilding and the White Sox are stuck in the middle. Second, the Phillies wanted to trade Hamels before his 10-5 rights kicked in, which would’ve limited his options.
So now to the actual trade. Profar (who had basically been injured for close to two years before that) and Gallo (admittedly high upside at the time) are now no longer the Rangers top prospects. Instead, the Phillies took on Harrison’s contract in order to get the Rangers #2 prospect (Thompson), #3 prospect (Alfaro, who is a catcher and catching prospects come with an absurd amount of value), #5 prospect (Williams), and their #13 prospect (Asher). So please, tell me how the Rangers “gave up nobody other than a salary relief injured pitcher”.
next year the phillies will start spending money again, their payroll will be at zero basically.
Who has rebuilt better so far, the Braves or Phillies.?
ATL…and it isn’t even close. Thank you Shelby Miller.
I’d say it is kinda close… but probably the Braves.
Nobody but salary relief injured SP off the major league roster. Proposals involving Folty & Mallex are giving up 2 legit guys off the 25 man roster for next year and if thrown in Ruiz should be on too. That with 2 top 5 prospects not named Albies or Swanson would get it done.
I really highly doubt that would get it done. They need position players and specifically center field Ender and Alvie’s are both gone if they trade for Sale.
And I don’t want Sale but man after next week White Sox fans are gonna be upset because after seeing Coppy/Hart operate it seems when they want somebody they get it done to get that player they want.
I myself would rather have Archer.
Looks like the Braves are sick of being the doormat and want to open the season with a contending team. This is great for baseball, it will give the East more parity. The Mets won’t be able to make the playoffs with their pitching alone.Frangraphs has them at 25.7 with the Sox at 30.8, they would be switching positions if they were to trade Sale to them. On the other hand, if they traded Sale to the Nats they would put them over the top in the East. Either way trading Sale to one of them would change the landscape of the East greatly.
The White Sox and their fans need to accept the fact that there are no Dave Stewart/TLR leadership teams in MLB this year. No team is going to be stupid enough to take on a SP whose best days are probably over unless the get a deal that doesn’t include their elite prospects. I don’t blame CWS for trying; but guys like Urias, Turner, Swanson, Moncado are just too valuable to trade for a SP—no matter how elite he has been. That Sale’s velocity and K/IP declined last year just ads to the risk for all these teams.
A 27 year old elite pitcher’s best days are behind him. Got it.
So Dumb
Chris Sales’ velocity declined by design last year. He pitched more to contact because he had to throw nine innings to get a win with that bullpen. He could still rush it up there when he had to. He also lost more runs to poor framing by the catcher than any other pitcher in baseball according to fan graphs. Give him a quality catcher and a bullpen than can hold a lead for two innings and he is BETTER than he has been.
Enciarte Albies newcomb and a B prospect
I’d say that is more than reasonable. wSox fans will laugh at you though and say Sale is worth the Braves entire franchise, or something alone those lines of homerish ignorance. Personally I think Inciarte, Albies, and Newcomb are more than enough to get it done. At least if I was in control of Sale. wSox need an OFer to replace Garcia. While Ender has 0 power he’s still an improvement over Garcia and with Ender in CF and Eaton in RF they have a pretty solid fielding OF….. then Cabrera in LF. Then with Albies you can have him be your starting 2Bman with Anderson at SS, Frazier at 3B, and Abreu at 1B. That’s a pretty solid IF. With Lawrie on the bench….. that’s a pretty solid 5th IFer. Then you got Newcomb competing for that 5th rotation spot to go with Quintana, Rodon, Shields, Gonzalez-Fulmer-Newcomb all competing for the final two roster spots. And if Fulmer and Newcomb live up to their hype that’s a pretty solid rotation. IMO the Sox would be better off doing a full legitimate rebuild instead of just trading Sale, but I doubt they will or would. Still if thise were the trade it makes them noticeably better, at least to this Cubs fan. I think they’d be wise though to trade Sale if they can get a haul like this…. which the definitely can. Then trade Quintana for a similar deal minus one player. Quintana IMO is worth the same deal minus, say, the ML talent so in this case it would be Inciarte. Still get two top tier prospects for Quintana + as you put it a “B” level prospect which generally means a prospect not on an organization’s top 10 prospect list. Then I’d trade Frazier. I’m sure you can get a top prospect for him from someone. Then trade Abreu for two top prospects, and Adam Eaton for a quality reliever and a mid level prospect. All of a sudden this team is insanely young and packed with prospects just by trading Sale, Quintana, Frazier, Abreu, and Eaton. That’s 5 players for about 8 prospects/young major leaguers who have extremely high potential and ceilings and then a quality reliever and a mid-level prospect from the Eaton deal……. or two mid-level prospects for Eaton. Point is they can completely transform this team VERY quickly if they had the balls to do it. I just really doubt Reinsdorf and Williams have the balls. I think Hahn does but his two masters have their hands firmly grasping his balls.
Bottom line is I don’t see the Sox doing anything impactful and positive for that franchise until Reinsdorf dies. That’s morbid to say but I think it is the truth. He doesn’t want to commit to a full rebuild, 1) because he doesn’t want to get upstaged by the Cubs….. which is funny because regardless of what the Sox do they are always upstaged by the Cubs, and 2) he is worried that if he commits to a rebuild he’ll die before the plan comes to fruition. I mean the guy is an 80 year old obese man. It’s amazing he made it to 80 let alone thinking he can make it another 5-7 years when a rebuild plan should start producing results. Hell, even for a healthy man making it to 80 let alone 86-87 is an accomplishment. So again….. they won’t commit.
“Adam Eaton for a quality reliever and a mid level prospect”
Lol thank you for providing me a laugh today. That may be the dumbest comment I’ve ever read.
let me guess, you think he’s worth at least 2 top prospects and a young ML ready talent.
He didn’t say that. He merely pointed out that your trade proposal for Eaton was ludicrous and he was absolutely right.
He’s been a 5+ win player 2 of the last 3 years, including 6+ last year. The only year he wasn’t was because of a weird down year on defense in CF, and he still posted a 3.9 win season. As a right fielder, he’s a good hitting version of Jason Heyward. Did you see how valuable he was last offseason? Now factor in the fact that he’s only making about $40 mil over the next 5 years, which is a third of what Heyward will be making assuming he doesn’t opt out. Tell me how that’s worth a “quality reliever and a mid level prospect”
Not a chance the Sox take that garbage.
I wonder how much trade value AJ Reed has at this point?
The Sox won’t trade Sale. They are delusional on their asking price for him and that front office and ownership are easily the most stubborn in the league….. usually to their detriment. That team desperately needs to commit to a rebuild but their ego and jealousy/envy of the Cubs gets in the way to commit to said rebuild. As a Cub fan I thoroughly enjoy watching them spin their tires and continue their trip to nowhere.
That said, how much is Sale really worth? Do 3 years of control REALLY mean he is worth that much more than David Price was? If so does that mean when Sale hits free agency he is going to command an annual salary north of $35M? If so what team is that dumb to pay it? I don’t know. As I guy who lives in a town where Sale pitches and I get to hear about him on the radio and see him perform regularly on TV and on news highlights…… while he’s a great pitcher I’m not sold on him. I seriously think he is a sneeze away from a Tommy John surgery. IMO I think the real prize the Sox have is Jose Quintana. How that dude isn’t drawing equal buzz as Sale baffles me. He has excellent numbers as well but unlike Sale has been a workhorse without injury or injury concerns looming over him his entire career. He’s the hispanic Jon Lester IMO.
IMO Sale is worth, say, a Trea Turner and a high level minor league prospect…… that’s it. Or a Xander Bogaerts or Mookie Betts and low level minor league prospect……. that’s it. To think he is worth a fresh ML talent with a super high ceiling IN ADDITION to a team’s top two prospects and then some is f***ing absurd. I mean I’ve hear the wSox asking for Moncada, Benintendi, AND Devers…….. that’s Boston’s 3 best prospects, all three playing different positions, and all three of those guys were roughly in Baseball America’s top 15 MLB prospects list (might have been top 17 or so). That’s an insanely high, laughable asking price. I wonder how many times Hahn has been met with belly laughs on the other side of the phone when he gives his asking price.
So the Cubs got Addison Russell and McKinney for Samarjza for a year and a Half who was a product of pitching in NL but the Sox are Delusional for asking for the House for Sale ? …….. Like you said living in Chicago I come across a lot of Dumb Cubs Fans like you
Samardzija was traded at the deadline to a desperate team making a playoff push. It is no secret players values skyrocket at the deadline…… not the offseason when EVERYONE is thinking they’ll compete. I mean look what the Cubs gave up to get Chapman versus what the Yankees gave up to get Chapman from the Reds. My point proven right there. As for Samardzija, your ignorance is shining. It was BOTH Samardzija AND Hammel to Oakland for Russell, McKinney, Dan Straily, and a PTBNL. So in other words it was two ML pitchers who were extremely hot at the deadline for 1 top prospect, a recent 1st round draft pick in McKinney, a mediocre, quad A type pitcher in Straily and a PTBNL. I’d hardly call that getting a ton for Samardzija and Hammel. Russell, McKinney, Straily is hardly the equivalent to what the Sox want for Sale…… which is pretty much an organization’s entire farm system.
Your an idiot
you’re*
Yeah, fu** logic.
Only reason why that deal is so in favor for the Cubs is because after the season they re-signed Hammel. And ever since that season Samardzija has been mediocre. Despite the hype and the AS appearance, Russell hasn’t really lived up to the hype. He’s been a .240 hitter with a .320ish OBP the last two seasons. While he is solid defensively I wouldn’t call him a superstar. Definitely a solid player though. Samardzija is a solid middle of the rotation pitcher though. Russell was the 14th ranked prospect at the time of the deal according to Baseball America. McKinney was unranked because he was just drafted the year prior in 2013. And Dan Straily was a mediocre pitcher at best with the A’s, bouncing from the ML to the minors……….. Then toss in Hammel who at the time of the trade had a 2.98 ERA and a 1.02 WHIP!!
Again, how is that even remotely close to the haul that the Sox want for Sale? Again, look at the Price deal from TB to Detroit. That is the best comparable situation to the Sale potential deal. While Sale has 1.5 more years of control than Price did, Price didn’t come with the fragility concern. Sox should only expect two top, quality prospects, and a mid level prospect in return for Sale. That’s MORE than what the Cubs got in the Samardzija+Hammel deal AND more than what the Rays got for Price. How can you dispute that he is worth more than that? Albies, Allard, and Demeritte would be an INSANELY lopsided deal in favor of the Sox…… and they don’t want that. Nuts. That’s 3 potential players on your 25 man roster year in and year out in the near future. Nah, let’s keep Sale.
As for acting like Samardzija is a bum and only a NL pitcher. Explain why he was a stud for the A’s then for half the season? 16 starts, 3.14 ERA, 0.93 WHIP, 3.30 FIP. He only sucked with the wSox because Cooper f***ed with his pitch selection. Just go to fangraphs and look for yourself. This year with SF he did fine again with a 3.81 ERA, 3.85 FIP, and 1.20 WHIP. That’s middle of the rotation quality…… which is pretty much what everyone said he was.
You’re* an idiot.
Sale’s innings last 5 years:
192.0, 214.1, 174.0, 208.2, 226.2
Q’s innings last 5 years:
136.1, 200.0, 200.1, 206.1, 208.0
Please tell me how Chris Sale is not a workhorse. Just because you THINK his motion is a cause for concern, it doesn’t mean it actually is. For all anyone knows, he might have the perfect motion to avoid injury. NOBODY KNOWS WHAT CAUSES ARM INJURIES. Until someone can prove exactly what is causing injuries and show why Chris Sale is destined to be hurt, the concern is all bs. Every pitcher is an injury concern, even the “great” Mark Prior with his “perfect mechanics.”
I like how you neglect to point out that those numbers for Quintana span his entire ML career. Meaning he has essentially been throwing 200+ innings/season since he debuted. I’d definitely call a dude who in 4 of his 5 ML seasons has eclipsed 200 innings a workhorse. And the only reason he didn’t hit 200 his debut season is because he wasn’t on the team the entire season.
I “THINK” sale is an injury concern because seemingly EVERY year he is said to be battling arm soreness at some point in the season. Sooner or later that “arm soreness” is going to be a blown UCL. Quit acting like I’m the only one pointing out his shaky health. Its not like I am alone on this blatantly obvious observation. It is Sox fans who are delusional and refuse to admit he is an injury risk for whoever acquires him….. if anyone acquires him. I think it is 30-70 odd that they trade him, and IMO that is being generous. Reinsdorf and Williams have too big of vaginas to commit to a rebuild….. while Hahn is anxiously waiting to unload all the dead weight on that team.
As for Prior, you kind of prove my point. Prior had solid mechanics yet still got injured due to excessive use in 2003 which was his first full season. What makes you think Sale with crap mechanics won’t get injured? I’ll put myself out there and say that within the next 3 years Sale will have a serious arm injury and it will likely require Tommy John surgery. Whether or not he bounces back from it who knows. If he doesn’t change his delivery after it I bet he bounces back and forth from the DL for several years. In fact, with Sale pitching the most innings of his career in a single season this last year I won’t be shocked if he has his arm go out this year some time. Sale reminds me of a taller Lincecum with a sh***ier delivery. Sale’s velocity was down a hair in 2016. Should be interesting to see what he does in 2017….. likely still with the White Sox. I’ll be the first one here if they trade him this winter to display my shock and amazement their front office did the right thing…. for once. IF they trade him I bet they cling onto all their other tradeable assets though and refuse to do a complete rebuild. Quintana, Frazier, and Abreu all should be traded as well if they wanted to do it right. Maybe hold onto Frazier until the deadline in hopes he regains some of his value back.
You do realize that those numbers also span Chris Sale’a entire career as a starter…? The comparison really couldn’t be much more fair. Chris Sale has thrown 192+ innings every year he’s started except for one in which he threw 174. I’d definitely call a dude who has pitched 192+ innings in 4 of his 5 years as a starter a workhorse… The point isn’t to say Q isn’t a workhorse, it’s to say they both definitely are.
“Said to be battling arm soreness,” yet he still manages to pitch 30+ starts a year every year except for one. His “soreness” gets blown out of proportion every time he misses a start.
And I’m not acting like you’re the only one pointing out his shaky health. I’m calling out everybody that makes that claim with no backing. Just because his mechanics look different doesn’t mean his arm is inevitably going to explode. People have been claiming he’s going to need TJ ever since he got drafted. Guess what? He hasn’t yet. Goes to show you that people don’t know what they’re talking about. It’s all speculation despite the fact that nobody actually knows why a pitcher’s arm gives out.
In no way am I saying that the acquiring team shouldn’t be concerned about a potential injury. I’m saying that the acquiring team should be concerned about a potential injury with EVERY pitcher they acquire. Until someone can definitively say what causes all these arm injuries and prove that Sale is doing whatever it is, it’s all speculation. A trade for him is a calculated risk, just like a trade for any pitcher. The difference is that he’s an elite pitcher, unlike most.
He’s made 30+ starts in 3 of his 5 years as a starter. Not just “that one” year. I don’t get why Sox fans are refusing to believe reality. HE HAS BATTLED ARM ISSUES!!!! They just haven’t been serious enough yet to require surgery. That’s a friggin red flag. I swear, talking to wSox fans is like talking to liberals. Refusing to live in reality and accept the facts and would rather continue living in their fantasy world dictated by their empty narrative.
Is Sale a great pitcher? Yes. No one is disputing that you fools. It’s just that the wSox are asking a ridiculous amount in return for him despite having the red flag of potentially having serious arm issues down the road. Now don’t say “well you can say any pitcher has potential to get injured ‘down the road’ why single out Sale.” Again, before you jump to your narrative, yes, any pitcher at any time can get injured. It’s just that with Sale that concern already exists….. again look at his history. Quit closing your eyes and look dammit. Then there’s the fact of, let’s assume Sale isn’t an arm injury waiting to happen concern. Why is he worth RIDICULOUSLY more in a trade in an offseason than David Price was 2 years ago at the same age at the trade deadline….. when players, especially pitchers, see their values in trades skyrocket. Yes, Price at the time only had the rest of the 2014 season and 2015 under team control. 1.5 years, which is half of what a team would have control of Sale for. Price was traded for Smyly, Nick Franklin, and Willy Adames. None of which at the time were exactly considered premiere prospects and young ML talent. At the VERY least none of them had remotely the hype around them the likes of Betts, Bogaerts, Moncada, Beninteni, Devers, Trea Turner, Giolito, Albies, Swanson, and the plethora of other elite prospects and/or young ML talent the Sox have been demanding. Yes, 1.5 years more of control should warrant a higher return than the likes of Smyly, Franklin, and Adames,……… but not much higher. At least not to the heights they’re asking for.
In the end, IF Sale is traded I bet they get no more than 2 top prospects and a low level, shot in the dark prospect………. and maybe a PTBNL. That’s hardly what I’ve heard them asking for, which is a top tier, young ML level talent, at least one of the team’s top prospects, and then two additional middle tier prospects/guys who made their ML debut but struggled. So the likes of, say, Trea Turner, Robles, Juan Soto, and Pedro Severino. A more likely and fair trade would be, Robles, Fedde, and Soto……. that’s it. Maybe a PTBNL. That’s a premiere OF prospect in Robles, a high quality pitching prospect that is near ML ready in Fedde, and a quality looking additional OF prospect in Soto but is a ways away seeing as he just turned 18 years old late October. That’s an OFer who will be ready by 2018-2019 in Robles who is looking like a premiere lead off man in any lineup and a solid OFer. A high quality pitcher in Fedde who with the Sox will likely be competing for a starting gig immediately and an instant potential replacement for Sale. Soto is insanely young but is looking like a potential premiere prospect. It’s a gamble on Soto but it looks like it could pay out huge.
Why did I use the Nationals as my example? I don’t know. If you want to use the Braves I’d say that Albies, Allard, and Demmeritte for Sale is pretty fair. Point is, you would likely get an organization’s top prospect, a prospect ranked roughly 5-10 on their top 30 list, and then a prospect roughly at the 10th ranked position in their system and below. Albies is the Braves #2 prospect, Allard #4, and Demeritte #9…… that’s a stellar haul. Albies and Allard are top 60 prospects in all MLB. Albies top 15. Albies will be ready sometime in the 2017 season to make his debut. Allard sometime int 2018, and Demeritte not far behind Allard. So ALL 3 of those guys are near ML ready. If I were Hahn and the Braves offered me those 3 guys I’d be all over it……… but they’re delusional and think that isn’t enough. A potential starting SS, 2B, and SP isn’t enough….. they’re insane. Their fan base is even more insane. Their fanbase would say something like, “That’s a good starting point for trade talks, Take Demeritte off and replace him with Swanson and you got a deal.”……… because an org/ is really going to give up 3 of their 5 best prospects in a single trade 2 of which are their #1 and #2 prospects. Like I said before wSox nation….. please come join us in reality.
If that isn’t enough the Sox simply don’t want to trade Sale. Simple as that.
Again, overreacting. You keep using completely arbitrary numbers to try to prove a point, and it isn’t working. You’re right, he’s only started 30+ games and pitched 200+ innings 3 out of 5 years. But lets not point out that he started 29 and threw 192 innings one of the other 2 years… If he started 1 more game and pitched 8 innings, would he have qualified as a “workhorse” that’s not battling arm issues according to you? Do you know how many pitchers feel some sort of “soreness” after a start? Why do you think they ice their arms and throw on coats between innings? The same reason Sale and many other pitchers miss a start once every couple of months – to help prevent injury. “Soreness” is not an “arm issue.” Soreness is what happens when you pitch as much as these guys do. If he feels a pinching or pulling of some sort, then they’ll have an issue.
Very well stated, KB, if a tad long winded. I could see Folty and Blair being substituted for Albies because I think Sox want pitching back in a deal for Sales. Mallex Smith also likely needs to be included since Sox also want a CF / lead off hitter. So, maybe Braves keep Allard and sub Mallex. There is room for customization to fit preferences.
KB all that typing and for what??? You were wrong. Hahn pulled one of your “hyped” untouchables. I guess he and White Sox fans knew something you didn’t. That Sale guy is pretty good, pretty durable, and at a complete steal of a contract. Don’t worry ….you’re forgiven
I pray to God that we do not trade for Sale. I think he’s a great pitcher and would love to have him in a Braves uniform but for what the Sox are going to ask it’s not worth mortgaging the future in order to sell tickets to a shitty “new” ballpark (one that looks like turner field lol). If the trade in any way involves Swanson, Maitan, Newcomb, Allard, Fried, Soroka, Anderson I’m not only not interested but will be extremely furious with the Braves front office. Unfortunately, the Coppy and Hart set an unrealistic expectation when they traded Miller to Arizona GM’s think that is the new standard. As someone else on the thread said that move got Stewart fired. That deal doesn’t get made by GM’s who like their job lol
There is a big Difference between Shelby Miller with 2 years of control Pitching in The NL …….. And a pitcher that has finished top 6 in Al Cy young the past 4 years ……. Who is signed for 3 more …….. Can you please Understand That
Giving up a ton of prospects for a guy that plays once a week is stupid.. Can you please understand that?
So, trading for starting pitchers is dumb? I’d estimate roughly 30 general managers would disagree with you.
Once a week huh? They have 7 man rotations now?
I do understand that. Which is why earlier I highlighted the deal the Rays made 2 years ago involving Price (who has actually won a Cy Young) to the Tigers. What did the Rays get in return for Price who had/has a better resume than Sale at the same point in their careers? Drew Smyly as the centerpiece, Nick Franklin, and Willy Adames. Exactly.
Price didn’t have three controllable years for peanuts.
the rays did get cheated in the three way trade for price, they waited too long
David price had 1.5 years of control at $27mm remaining. His return was Drew Smyly, which was 4.5 years of a 2-2.5 WAR SP with upside, Austin Jackson (who they then traded for Nick Franklin), he was a CF with 1.5 years of control and had averaged 3.5-4 WAR and Willy Adames who was a top 100 prospect. That is 2 proven MLB players and a top 100 prospect for 1.5 years of David Price at $27mm and since then the cost to acquire pitching has also gone up across the sport, as well as SP salaries.
What do you think 3 years of Chris Sale at $39mm will cost to acquire today?
Touché! I agree with you, KB. A Trade for Sales will likely be similar to the deal for Price. Sox want to move Sales before Spring Training so he doesn’t poison the clubhouse against Ken Williams after the debacle last yr with Laroche.
Why would the potential return for Sale be the same as the return for Price? Sale has twice as much control and costs 30% less than Price did. If you want to base it on the return for Price, it would be at least twice as much for the extra control, plus more for the reduced salary. That doesn’t even take into account the increased cost of acquiring pitching over the past year.
If you use the Price trade as a framework for a potential Braves/White Sox deal and factor in that Sale has twice as much control at a 30% discount, the return for Sale would be something like Albies, Folty, Inciarte and 2 of Acuna/Maitan/Soroka/Allard. That seems like the type of package some here have been saying.
Exactly.
Amen!
Pray to God for some intelligence and a discerning eye for ballparks. Turner was less than mediocre if you’ve ever been to any other field including its blueprint: Camden Yards, which pales in comparison. I’m glad Braves moved, even if it had nothing to do with finances and future profitability.
What about Newcombe makes him untouchable? Guy has little control, regardless of his strikeout totals. He’s shown improvement, but I wonder what makes him untouchable in your eyes. The farm is packed enough that they can use some of their pieces without making much of a hit, and that’s even before they have great draft positioning in 2017 MLB First-Year Draft (#5 overall). If they trade for Sale, I think they believe they’ll either contend in the next 3 years and/or have the future finances to be able to extend him, when the opportunity presents itself. I do not think this is like Mark Teixeria, where we trade a wagon of prized prospects for 1.5 years of a stud that most likely we weren’t going to be able to retain.
It’s hilarious you think the Braves FO would think that one of the most lopsided trades in recent memory is thought to be the gold standard for trades by a group that continues to make trades involving prospects for prospects (Alex Jackson for Chris Ellis, John Gant, Luke Dykstra). Coppy/Hart continue to add high-upside guys and eventually some of these will look like steals when they fully develop or grow healthy.
So you want Sale, one of the best pitchers in the major leagues, without giving up one of your top prospects. Good luck with that.
Hopefully, the White Sox will not trade Sale primarily for prospects who need an extensive amount of time to develop in the minors. The White Sox have not shown acumen in player development, at least with position players and hitters, something they would mostly need in return for Sale or any other player they plan on trading this offseason.
If other teams are not willing to trade some of their premium MLB ready talent, the White Sox should forget about a full rebuild and just retool, reload or stand pat until at least the summer trade deadline when they will have a better idea of their own club under new manager Rick Renteria and/or when some contender is desperate enough to give the White Sox exactly what they want.
Many of the guys that are readily mentioned from ATL are close to ready like SP Mike Folty…, SP Sean Newcombe, OF Mallex Smith, 3B Rio Ruiz. Smith/Ruiz have already seen some game-time with Newcombe needing to piece together more consistent starts and built on what he was doing well the 2nd half of last season.
Sale probably won’t go on sale this season. They’ll keep their price up where they want it and if they don’t get an offer they like, they’ll pull the trigger at the deadline next season when someone is desperate.
Getting a lot, but a lot less than what they could get right now with presumably 1.5 years left of control. Trade the guy and get the rebuild going sooner than later.
slow day on the rumors…reporting for the 1000th time, Swanson will not be available in trade talks for Sale.
Good for the braves, all I would give is Ruiz, Blair, Wisler, and mallet and if that didn’t get him wish them luck
And I would not want to do that, I just think we are better off where we are at
I guess you want 10 more years of losing huh?
Fellow we won our division for 10 years straight and it wasn’t by giving our best young players for one that could get hurt tomorrow
Woah!
You’re going to give up the Braves #16 prospect and three fringy players who produced a -0.1 WAR in a combined 226.2 IP and 215 plate appearances last year for one of the game’s top five pitchers under very cheap control for three more years?
Be careful – you don’t want to give up too much!
Part of me is excited the Braves are “being” aggressive to get a great starter, then another part knows it is a lie. It is all talk and at the end of the day knowing this organization, they will settle for less.
What’s all this about Inciarte that makes him ‘so valuable’ to ATL ?
Prospects are just that, “prospects”! I’m a Braves fan but I have a hard time understanding why other Braves fan hold so much stock in prospects. We have stockpiled all of this pitching in the minors and in a perfect world if they all make it, where are the spots in the rotation? Sooner or later you have to decide which ones to hold the most stock into and deal the rest for other things, The key is being able to identify which of these top prospects will be able to make it and which ones won’t.
Because every team has that one that got away in a trade. They’re afraid he’s the next so and so.
Is that more important than winning?
Winning for one two years? Or setting up a team loaded with talent that can win repeatedly? Sale will not be traded for one player he’ll be traded for 4 or more. Swanson did perform well last year and is beyond a prospect if it costs them him and one other good to great player out of the other 3 prospects that means a Swanson and a good to great player that they missed out on for 3 years of a pitcher? When we dont know if they’ll be competitive. I mean how many years did hernandez waste away in Seattle?
True not ever prospect pans out, how many pitchers have you witness only having 3-5 years. Sale maybe the exception, maybe he gets hurt, but for sure he leaves in 3 years, need I say more
In that light, the Braves are a good match since getting Sale probably won’t make them contenders next year. It’s kind of like when the Padres won the winter.
We could get Sale and we could also add a left handed from the Dodgers but we will still not be making the party in October next year is my point. Be patient and let the kids develop and don’t listen to this other junk on here
^^^
An example of Braves fans who sing the same song for the past decade or so.
They are a smaller market team and Swanson produced at the MLB level. Meaning he is no longer just a prospect, he is a prospect who proved he can hit more than just MiLB pitching.
He had 145 pas and ran a 383 babip. Don’t expect that to continue.
No Swanson, no Sale. Simple as that. Next up…
It’s ludacris that Atlanta is saying Swanson would be off the table. I can understand Bregman or Turner being off the table for Hou or Was because they are going to be contending and are a big part of those teams. Swanson is NOT Bregman or Turner and Atlanta is not contending. The minute they said he’s off limits I would have laughed…and then hung up the phone if I was Hahn. Atl will not be getting Sale with those weak packages. I hope Dombrowski is waiting patiently and offers up some real talent.
It is ludacris to still still dumb people like you..actually 90% of people are as dumb as you.
You must be right opethsdeliverance. Actually I have a PHD…..in banging your old lady. Haha. Get lost troll.
Hey look at that opethsdeliverance. Still still dumb people like me completely called this one. Dombrowski waiting in the weeds and my White Sox get some real talent. One of these days I’ll show you my baseball PHD to go along with the other one I told you about.
I can’t even read these comments anymore ….. What a Joke ……. People on here over value prospects way to much
i agree
Braves should not trade for Sale.
They fleeced the D-Backs. Can’t use that trade as a baseline bc Coppy isn’t dumb enough to be on the other side of it..
It’s not about what Sale is worth in terms of baseball value (WAR, contract, years of control, etc.). It’s about what Sale is worth to the buyer (here, the Braves). In baseball value, is Sale worth some combination of Swanson, Albies, Newcombe, etc.? Maybe. But not in Braves value.
Swanson, Albies, Newcombe, etc. don’t just come with six years of club control. They come with the ability to extend them early in the arbitration process. I’ve already seen talk of the Braves extending Swanson to a 10+ year deal. Whether that (or the terms of that) are a good idea isn’t the point. The point is that the Braves have the opportunity to extend any of those guys very early in the process (pre-arbitration). They are much more likely to take a discount for a long term deal than Sale is. That’s just math.
It’s also about where the Braves are in the rebuild. No one expects them to contend for a pennant in 2017. They currently have waves of talent coming up. Better to wait until they are one or two pieces away before making a major trade or FA signing.
The problem with the Miller trade is that it changed the trade landscape. Teams aren’t going to settle for less now that they saw what Arizona was willing to give up for Shelby Miller. Why should the White Sox take less? They can just as easy keep Sale and try to compete. The Miller trade changed trades across baseball. Just look at what the Cubs gave up for a rental closer and what the Indians gave up for 1.5 seasons of Andrew Miller.
Good put the nonsense to rest and focus on Archer. We won’t have to give up SP prospects that are close to being ready. They have a young rotation so they will probably be looking at pitchers in the lower minors. Only problem is I def would see them insisting on Albies and I don’t want to move him.
Hopefully we can buy low on Sonny Gray without the inclusion of Albies but that would more than likely cost SP closer to being major league ready.
Would Oakland take Mallex (OF help needed), Newcomb, Minter (future closer) & Peterson (nearly ready OF) and Ruiz (nearly ready 3B) for Gray & Voght.
Not voght his defense sucks i doubt this would happen
If the braves want any of the big 3, they have to give up Albies if they don’t want to part with Swanson. Albies at that. You don’t acquire Cy Young caliber pitching without including blue chip prospects.
Nothing magical about Swanson. He is projected at 1.8 WAR next year. If the Braves did include Swanson, I wonder if Swanson, and Newcomb would be enough.
I still don’t think that would be enough. That’s less than the package that acquired Shelby Miller and Sale should net the White Sox more than that
If the braves are not gonna give up Swanson then I think Albies + Newcomb + Blair or Jenkins plus Ender would be enough but Im not a gm. I believe that sale ends up with the dodgers with the dodgers giving up Urias.
Why would the Dodgers trade Urias?
Great job white sox, if they don’t want to give up their top prospect let them sit.
Predictions for Sale
Braves send Albies , Newcomb , Blair or Jenkins + Ender for Sale
Nationals send: Giolito , Lopez , Joe Ross , Michael Taylor for Sale
Dodgers send : Urias , Bellinger , De Leon plus Puig for Sale
im not a gm but those would be my proposals
The White Sox would likely pass on the first two but jump all over the Dodger proposal.
It’s too bad you aren’t the GM in L.A. because the new Dodgers front office would never consider that deal.
Don’t think you would find a single taker. Gut your system for one guy? Multiple top prospects. No one is giving their entire future for one guy
The Dodgers one is by far the best IMO
I think the nationals trade for Mccutchen over Sale. But if the dodgers want sale, will they give up Urias?
I don’t think they give up Urias.
Sale is a proven ace unlike Urias, If they trade Urias and ends up being another kershaw then its a win win for both teams. If I was the dodgers, I would make the trade.
no it isn’t. If you trade someone who becomes kershaw with 6 years of control (3 at minimum) for someone making more with only 3 years, that’s a horrible trade.
Obviously, if they knew he was going to be kershaw good they’d never trade him, but no team knows for sure what a guy is going to end up being. Even with those doubts about what Urias can become, i see no way they move him. He showed MLB success as a teenager and he’s got lots of cheap control.
And they certainly won’t give up both Julio Urias and Jose De Leon, to say nothing of their #1 prospect Cody Bellinger who is the heir apparent to Adrian Gonzalez.
Absolutely not.
Urias may not be a proven ace, but he’s just about the closest thing to one there is.
What he’s done in his career is no fluke. He has an almost unprecedented combination of velocity, movement, control, and makeup.
We saw what he did last season in the MLB. Excluding his first two rough starts, he pitched to a 2.73 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, and 10.0 K/9 rate in 69.1 innings (his FIP and oBABIP also show he was even better). During that span, the Dodgers were 12-4 in games Urias pitched.
Oh, and he was 19. He was the youngest pitcher to debut since Felix Hernandez over a decade ago. And he still dominated.
So, even if we assume that Dodgers wouldn’t have to include anything else, and it was just Urias for Sale, would you rather have:
Urias for 3 years at $600k a year, plus three years of arbitration
or
Sale for 3 years at $12.67M a year
I agree I don’t think Urias is going anywhere.
sale. hands down. Dodgers need to win now. Sale is the better option over the next 3 years. What Urias has done was good for a rookie. I dont care how old or how young he is, the window with these current dodgers isnt super big and you have been close. Sale gets you much closer.
A Prospect is still a prospect. Sale has finished top 6 in Cy young the past 5 seasons. Urias shpws nothing that makes me believe he could even reach that level. Not that he isn good or a great prospect. But its apples vs oranges at this point.
If thats the case, the Braves have 3-4 guys that are touted like Urias and they cant get sale with those guys. There is a reason the Sox arent biting…
Actually the Dodgers window is just as good later on they have seager pederson and clayton is only 28. Their older guys are pretty of replaceable. I know it’s crazy to say that with the payroll the Dodgers have but the best assets they have are the youth not the high priced options.
I don’t know what about Urias stuff makes you think he ant bean Ace is it the three plus pitches he has is it the good control is it the quality makeup. How can anyone say that and by the way none of the Braves pitchers are touted like Urias.
Can’t see any of them giving up that much. Basically asking for every young and/or every top prospect they have for one guy. Just hard to believe anyone would pay that price. But I am not a gm either, so what do I know
Let’s make a deal…any takers?
Trade:
Sox: Sale, Danish & Hawkins
Braves: Albies, Allard, Maintan, Riley & Weigel
Braves get their SP for 3yrs at a ridiculous price. Hawkins is a former #1 pick w/huge power, he needs a change of scenery. Danish is an interesting prospect, he had a cup of coffee in the Bigs this year. His pitching tool is better served in the NL, Sinker/Slider w/a developing change up…long reliever spot starter when Fatzillo Colon needs a pizza break. Sox, ok so no Swanson NO BIG deal, I’ve thought he’s overvalued (as all prospects r now a days) I think Albies is the guy. I’d love watching Tim Anderson to Albies double combo up the middle. Allard has mid rotation potential, but needs developing (the one thing the Sox system does well is develop pitchers, wish I could say the same for position players). Maitan is the key cog for me, his tools make you drool, Keep Swanson, as w/this kind’ve potential theirs some Boom or Bust fears. You know where I stand, let this kid play & push his way thru the system. Riley is a young interesting 3b option, let him grow along w/Maitan & hope they push & excel.
After reading some of the other trade proposals I found this to be a little closer (again total couch GM’ing) If Braves really want Sale you’ll need to pay, so you get to keep Swanson. The Sox FO won’t like this package as much as the prospects are not MLB ready outside maybe Albies later next year.
As a Sox fan if you’re going to rebuild then you get the best prospects possible to help build a system that needs a jump start. Their not winning in the next two years w/the Indians & their young core & KC is still a better team. I’d much rather watch young kids get a chance, tired of watching the same team underachieve year in year out. Build the system & create a buzz like they did in the late 80’s & early 90’s (Thomas, McDowel, Ventura & Fernandez). And stop w/the whole Cubs BS, their a fun young team & enjoyable to watch…as a die hard Sox fan that was painful to admit. Sox need to worry about themselves, Cubs will be good for another 2-3yrs. Then again I might be in the minority w/the rebuild, either way pick a lane & go full speed w/your decision…either way I’ll be waiting & watching it play out…Go Sox!
Cheers,
Shoeless
P.S.
Tell Kenny Williams to stay out of White Sox business, my only Xmas wish!☃️
Braves wouldn’t do this. Maintan (ie Maitan) is untouchable. He isnt even being asked for because you could dangle Kershaw and not get the above package. Braves are willing to overpay, but they are not giving in to every demand. Its that simple. Personally, I want to hold on to our prospects for another year and make a big push next off season…much better clarity of what needs to happen when we can actually compete. 2018 is the year. We are already set up to be near .500 in 2017. No need to rush.
If the Braves aren’t making Swanson available then if I’m the White Sox I want Albies, Maitan, Folty and Ender. Instead of Folty maybe Newcomb if the Atlanta says no then move on.
Yes, and they each get Sale for a month at a time, I don’t see Sale being traded.
I just don’t think, at this point, Sale is going to be traded. It appears they have made him available if and only if they can get a monster haul an overpay if you will. I think they keep him unless someone bites and overpays. If the White Sox aren’t competing they can always trade Sale at the deadline. What it seems like they are asking for is pretty much not going to be met at this time.
There has never been a question of Sale’s talent. He was projected for the bullpen because of his size and funky delivery. So far he has held up and been semi-durable. As was the case with Tim Lincecum. Undersized pitcher with a funky delivery. It wont take a major injury for him to lose effectiveness. There is a high reward for 3 years of Sale at his excellent performance on his bargain salary. There is also a high risk in trading elite prospects who may or may not work out. And Sale losing effectiveness making that bargain contract a bit burdensome as its only cheap if Sale is perfoming on the field.
Big difference in the 2 is Lincecum is 5 11 while sale is 6 6.
6’6″ and 180 lbs. there isnt any size to him apart from his height. Or look at Strasburg if you will. When he is healthy is is good as anyone. That could be another outcome as they had same concerns when drafted. Not saying Sale is made of glass and he may never go on the DL. Just saying there are comps for risk there.
There’s also comps for scherzer as well. Comps are tricky noone knows what’s going to happen and to predict an injury is next to impossible.
Braves should just hold on to their prospect and see where they’re at the deadline, and if for some reason they are contenders and need a pitcher that’s ace material then make it happen.
Agreed.
Let me say this
THE BRAVES DO NOT NEED SALE I DO NOT KNOW WHY YOU PEOPLE THINK THEY DO
This is a team that just signed R.A.dickey and bartolo colon i do not think there reaching for the world series here guys i think they just want to fill the stadium. Trading your entire farm for sale not dont get me wrong sale is great but trading your whole farm for sale is not worth it for the braves.
Now on the other hand i think the red sox should trade for sale but at the right price i think sox should give up JBJ(who the white sox want) E-rod(who the sox also said they wanted) plus Devers , Swihart ( who is still a top player untill a season ending ankle injury who can still catch) then end with a topper of some other pitching prospect someone on the lines of a brian johnson and pat light
That is a package of 6 players with 3 proven mlb ready players that would start for the white sox day one
Pat light is no longer with the Red Sox he is now a Twin.
That may not stock the farm but it gives them an up and coming third base farm guy in devers and they then trade guys like frazier melky and eaton to stock the farm
You’re right, but if its JBJ and not Benintendi I’d so upset and white sox shouldn’t want JBJ even though its been said they do. Trade with red sox should be Benintendi, Devers, Swihart, and Kopech I believe this is the most realistic trade i’ve seen where white sox say yes. And Red Sox should definitely make move for Sale insane lineup probably should also trade for Abreu as well from white sox and include E-Rod and some other mid level prospect and Redsox are AL pennant favorites for the next three years
If the braves trade ender or allard in no longer a braves fan haha
I love all the blind Braves fans saying the Sox “need to trade Sale” and “they’re not going to get a blue chip prospect”. Dansby’s untouchable, Inciarte is untouchable, Folty is untouchable, hell they didn’t want to give up Albies for Sale. I wouldn’t take two Swansons for the package Hahn lifted off Boston.