The White Sox have maintained daily trade talks centering around ace Jose Quintana, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (Twitter links). The Astros, Pirates and, to a much lesser extent, the Yankees remain involved in talks, though the Yankees are less willing than other interested suitors to part with the requisite prospects to pull off a Quintana deal. Rosenthal characterizes the Yanks as a “long shot,” noting that the White Sox are steadfast in their asking price on Quintana and could look to move him at the deadline if no suitable offer arises this winter. Other teams could be in the mix as well, he further adds.
Earlier today, ESPN’s Buster Olney suggested that the White Sox would like any trade for Quintana to be completed before Spring Training opens, though Quintana’s excellence and favorable contract would allow him to be traded at virtually any point during the calendar year so long as he’s healthy.
Both the Astros and Pirates have long been rumored as potential suitors for Quintana, though to this point neither club has been willing to meet Chicago’s understandably lofty asking price for the second of its prized top-of-the-rotation southpaws. (Chris Sale, of course, has already been dealt to Boston.) The White Sox reportedly asked the Astros for 24-year-old right-hander Joe Musgrove (who was solid in a 69-inning MLB debut last year) and the team’s top two prospects, righty Francis Martes and outfielder Kyle Tucker, in exchange for Quintana last month.
It’s not clear precisely what the Sox have asked of the Pirates to this point, though one can imagine top prospects like Austin Meadows and Mitch Keller have come up in trade talks. Young, potentially MLB-ready assets like Josh Bell and Tyler Glasnow, each of whom rated as a top 50 prospect before debuting in the Majors last year, also figure to hold plenty of appeal to the rebuilding Pale Hose.
Rosenthal adds in a third tweet that if the White Sox are able to find a palatable offer for their top remaining starter, then they could look to add a veteran pitcher on a one-year deal to help round out the rotation and mentor some of the organization’s young arms. Chicago already went down that road once by buying low on longtime Rangers lefty Derek Holland following the trade of Sale, and a similar move would seem prudent in the event that Quintana moves as well. Adding a veteran starter would prevent the Sox from feeling the need to rush a top pitching prospect like Lucas Giolito or Reynaldo Lopez to the Majors, and any veteran that performs well on a short-term pact could become a trade commodity this summer once contending clubs look to augment their starting rotations.
Quintana won’t turn 28 until later this month and is controlled for another four seasons at an eminently affordable total of $37.85MM. Better yet, only two of those seasons are guaranteed (at a total of $16.85MM), so if Quintana does suffer a disastrous injury or experience a stunning downturn in productivity, the financial commitment is even more manageable. That, of course, seems decidedly unlikely. Quintana is still in the midst of his prime and has been one of the game’s best performers on the mound across the past several seasons. He’s turned in four straight seasons of at least 200 innings, combining for a 3.35 ERA with 7.7 K/9, 2.2 BB/9 and a 43.7 percent ground-ball rate in 814 2/3 frames — numbers that are all the more impressive when considering his hitter-friendly home environment and the poor defenses that the White Sox have deployed in recent years.
bigcubsfan
Yay first comment. I say the Sox trade Quintana this month. Probably to the Pirates.
Philliesfan4life
Quintana would look nice in the pirates rotation led by Cole to go with Taillon and Glasnow but they will prolly have to trade Glasnow and other prospects to get him
sss847
they don’t have to trade glasnow. but if they keep him they’ll probably have to trade Meadows. if they keep both, they’ll probably have to trade their next 4 or 5 best prospects.
kehadley
I can see the Pirates trading Glasnow after a less than stellar debut; he’d almost have to be in the bigs to keep him, so with Quintana I think he’s the odd man out. If they can do that and keep Meadows and Bell I think they make the deal.
kamehameha
might not be pirates.. remember when reports were all saying sale was going to the nationals but red sox did the trade? expect unexpected from Hahn.
Philliesfan4life
the white sox basically got the same prospects for eaton as they would of gotten for sale without turner.
virginiascopist
I believe they were offered Giolito, Lopez and Victor Robles (currently the Nats’ number 1 prospect) for Sale.
TC06
Never gonna happen
MajorLeague79
They are being smart finally with all the trades and collection of top prospects. Reminds me of exactly what Theo did with the Cubs when he took over. This team could be real scary in the coming years.
chesteraarthur
The cubs had no where near the level of assets to trade as the white sox do. Theo was trading the scott feldmans and jeff samardzjas. If they can hit on a few of these guys, draft well, and finally develop any sort of position players, they could be good pretty quickly.
charlie2457
the pale hose blow and will blow for at least 3 more year’s
dro03
The key was more in their ability to utilize those assets and maximize their potential. We have to see if the Sox can do that since part of the problem wasn’t just a lack of youngsters, but an ability to scout on the professional and, until recently, younger players. How many crappy trades and free agent signings has this team made over the past 10 years? Add that to suspect managing and organizational development and you have the Sox. They need to fundamentally change as an organization, then they’ll be back to 2005.
Priggs89
They really haven’t had that many “bad” free agent signings that have hurt the organization… The worst one was Dunn, and that was only 4 years $56 mil. The LaRoche signing, which was also bad, was only for 2 years and like $25 mil…
Their biggest problem has been that they scrape the bottom of the barrel for their free agent signings and end up with discount players (outside of Dunn). They get the exact crappy performance out of those signings that they deserve. While that’s a horrible strategy for trying to build a winner (especially when you have studs like Sale, Quintana, Eaton, and Abreu), it’s a good way to not have any team-crippling deals on your roster.
100% correct on the suspect managing though. I absolutely believe that Robin kept last year’s team from being better (pretty much the same thing as every year outside of his first one). He was a god awful manager.
On the development side, I think that tends to get overrated. I’d fault the scouting significantly more than the development.
Vedder80
The Cubs did not become “good pretty quickly,” it was several years of atrocious baseball in order to rebuild that team.
Priggs89
Uhh, yes, they did become “good pretty quickly.” I’m assuming you’re a Cubs fan. If so, trust me, you were VERY spoiled by how quickly they were able to turn everything around after deciding to do a full rebuild. Success doesn’t happen anywhere near that quickly for 90+% of teams that try it.
Dock_Elvis
It does when you have a fan base that will support putting a AAA team and Anthony Rizzo on the field while you tank (Ryan Sweeney?) And you hit on a draft pick that fell like Bryant….and then you have that loot banked to unleash on free agents like Lester. Major market teams doing total tear downs is scary. KC does it..they live with what the farm develops….Cubs or Yankees ever do it….thats a Hurricane 5.
ChiSoxCity
I don’t know if you can call four season of tanking “pretty quick.” It normally takes about 4 years for a competent team to complete a rebuild. With luck, it can be done in 3.
Dock_Elvis
The honest truth is the Cubs could tank every season and…with the exception of some april and September dates…still sell that shrine of a park to tourists for the experience. I honestly can’t think of one other team whose fan base would allow that. Yankees..Red Sox..Dodgers…none of them.
charlie2457
Yes but the Sox really blow
sss847
it’s not like they were in rebuild mode since 1908. Theo took over, drafted really well, lucked out with Arrieta and Rizzo, and completed the best rebuild in sports over the course of 3-4 years.
Dock_Elvis
Best rebuild in sports? I will ALWAYS maintain that Bill Snyder at Kansas State pulled off the greatest rebuild in all of sports. That was the worst program of all time and he somehow managed to recruit and make them a regular contender and occasional national contender.
baseballfan 3
I love what the Sox are doing. I hope they end up with ALL the prospects. Go Sox Go!
stryk3istrukuout
Yes! Every single prospect in baseball! Take ’em all!!!
reflect
Gotta catch em all?
stryk3istrukuout
Bellinger! Verdugo! I choose you!
charlie2457
then what do you have? a team full of prospects. not major league players. the Sox will blow for a long time
kerplunk905
I don’t know what the issue is. That would be the plan. How long they are bad would depend on how well the prospects develop.
comebacktrail28
Here come all the Jose Quintana is a #3 comments
kehoet83
#2 starter
bigcubsfan
On the Cubs he would be a #4 starter. He isn’t going to the Cubs, but I can dream right?
Philliesfan4life
the cubs will have to do something depending on what they do with arrieta. lackey will prolly retire. I see them trading for Archer. Odorizzi or maybe sonny gray next year
socalsoxfan78
#4 on the Cubs? Try # 2. He could even be #1 if Lester still refuses to hold runners on first and regresses a bit. (He’s 34 and threw a ton of innings last year so he won’t repeat 2016 stats).
I wouldn’t mind it if they swapped Biaz, Happ, and Underwood Jr a lottery ticket. I doubt the Cubs would part with Biaz, but I think it would take that kind of package to pry Q from the Sox.
bigcubsfan
You really think Quintana is better than two of Arrieta, Hendricks, and Lester? Those 3 all finished in the top 3 in the Cy Young voting in either 15 or 16. Also, could you please spell Baez right? It just annoys me a little. Dank you.
ramonskee
I’m assuming you’re a big Cubs fan so I’ll take it easy on you – Hendricks was dominant last year, yes. He was very good the year before, sure. But to be as consistent as Q has been for 4+ years – that’s legit. Hendricks could fall off the face of the earth next year and not many folks would be surprised.
Don’t forget that Q is pitching in the AL and that alone accounts for 0.50 on your ERA. HE would be #2 on the Cubs only behind Lester at the top of his game or Arrieta at the top of his game. Scary thing is – I don’t think we have seen Q at the top of his game yet.
jdgoat
Quintanas easily better than Hendricks, the other two are debateable. Hendricks has been only great for one year, Q has for multiple
antonio bananas
quintana is certainly a better asset than lester and arrieta. age matters so much. quintana is likely to maintain his 3.5-5 WAR prime for 3-4 years. in 3 years lester and arrieta will be well on the decline.
antonio bananas
on top of not faving a DH, the cubs had a historically good defense. so youre probably looking at a 0.75-1.00 run handicap for cubs starters vs chisox starters.
Dmalsch22
Quintana has never had “great” season. His era is a very good not great mid 3’s yearly. You can’t say that because Q has been consistent that he’s better, Hendricks could put up great seasons for the next 4 years or he could not, as of last season Hendricks is better than Q but that could change
AddisonStreet
Biaz? Some Cubs fan you are…
socalsoxfan78
Excuse me. Baez.
Quintana is definitely better than Arrieta, who did not pitch like a Cy Young candidate after the PED allegations. Check his 2nd half stats. They weren’t as good as Q’s.
He eats more innings than Hendricks and has a longer track record of success. Quintana would definitely benefit from facing the watered down likes of the Phillies, Brewers, Padres, Reds, Braves, etc., because we all know the Senior Circuit doesn’t have as much offensive fire power as the AL. Plus he would have the advantage of the league not being very familiar with him.
As far as Lester is concerned, there’s no way he comes close to having the kind of year he had in 2016 in 2017. He’ll be another year older and he pitched a ton of high-leverage innings.
socalsoxfan78
Agreed.
chesteraarthur
If you mean he wont put up a 2.44 era then sure, I’d imagine he has a lower fip next year though.
Priggs89
Quintana’s ERA’s over the last 3 years have ben 3.20, 3.36, and 3.32. I’d hardly call that “mid 3’s,” but maybe that’s just me.
Even if you only want to use last season (which would be dumb), it’s a lot closer than you’re trying to make it seem between the 2. You’re failing to mention that Quintana pitches in the AL with a below average (at best) defense behind him, and Hendricks pitches in the NL with an elite defense behind him. That makes a GIGANTIC difference when looking at just ERA…
Fun fact – Hendricks’ ERA (2.13) was over a full run better than his FIP last year (3.20). His FIP the previous year was only 0.16 points higher (3.36), but his ERA was all the way up at 3.95… You could easily argue that he wasn’t anywhere near as “improved” as a pitcher as his ERA suggested last year. And no, that’s not me saying he’s a bad pitcher by any means – don’t take it that way.
On the other hand, despite having his lowest career ERA at 3.20 last year, Quintana actually posted his worst FIP of the last 3 years at 3.56. The 2 previous years he put up FIP’s of 3.18 and 2.81, which are both very good numbers, Put Quintana in the NL with a great defense behind him, and I’d be willing to bet that his ERA would look every bit as good as Hendricks’.
Priggs89
I mean, I wouldn’t be shocked if he put up a 2.44 ERA again, especially if he lowers his FIP. That defense is a huge difference maker, and I don’t see it taking a massive step backwards… I think it’d take some REALLY bad luck to have a much higher ERA if he is able to lower his FIP.
Dmalsch22
I agree with the whole AL NL and defense thing, Q would put up better numbers in the NL. The argument I was making is mostly that Q hasn’t had any great seasons. I think people use great a little too freely. He is very good but not great, he’s not an ace. Great and ace are words to describe kershaw type, Pedro in his prime type, Clemons. #1 pitcher and ace are two different things. With all that aside, Q is a very good pitcher but too say that he is better than someone because of his past seasons would be dumb, I didn’t argue consistency, having a great track record doesn’t make you better than someone else. There’s not really anyway to tell who’s the better pitcher because of all the different factors you mentioned
Dock_Elvis
I agree with you personally on the ace definition. Its much like closer…i feel there are only maybe 5 real stoppers in the league…and ace to me is much like that..ace is Kershaw..Bumgarner. But still every team has their own ace and own closer. Quintana would be the ace on most mlb teams. On a world series calibre team he’s worthy of being a #2. No matter what…the stats..the consistency don’t lie…and he’s repeated them to the point that it can be expected. Oh….he’s not flashy…but those stats dont lie.
MB923
So he spelled Baez as Biaz and that annoys you? Kind of strange. Better avoid forums/blogs at all costs because there are far worse things than spelling errors on the internet.
charlie2457
Sox blow, and will continue to blow for at least 4 years
charlie2457
WORLD SERIES CHAMPS
Orbit
He’s better than Arrieta. I think he’s about on par with Lester.
Orbit
Meant to type Hendricks. Not Arrietta. I think Hendricks season was a fluke and he will come back down to earth soon
bigcubsfan
Why is it every time I comment it turns into a roast session about the Cubs? Calm down people the Cubs are good. You can’t deny that.
Dock_Elvis
If you’ve been a Cubs fan long…you should know to expect that…especially from anyone with even an inkling of south side in them. Many found Cubs fans insufferable while they were horrible….I mean since Teddy Roosevelt was in office…now they won…so yeah..prepare to be a target. And on the Cubs…Quintana would still be a #2 starter…thats a title of ability not just pitching order
charlie2457
more like bullpen help,
pukelit
He sucks back of the rotation pitcher at best
Dock_Elvis
Lol…yeah….2 man rotation hes gonna have to go to the back.
Dock_Elvis
Yep…wheres RayRay and BillGiles.
tylerall5
Glasnow, Keller, Cole Tucker. Who doesn’t do it?
chopper2hopper
Me.
And hopefully the sox pass too
pukelit
The Sox
stryk3istrukuout
Pirates. Glasnow and Keller are stud pitchers. Cole now has some injury concerns going forward, leaving them with durability unproven Taillon and project Nova. They can’t afford to give up both of those pitchers, though they could, and would have to, deal one of the two.
strostro
Not Gerrit Cole, Cole Tucker
npalley98
Read his comment before trying to correct the man.
SilvioDante
The trade will be Glasnow, Bell, Elias Diaz and most likely a low level prospect for Q. If the Bucs decide to cut bait from the drunken, sex-crazed Korean 3B, Kang, the Sox could add Todd Fraizer to help out at the Hot Corner for a year, but then the Bucs would have to add Will Craig to the deal.
tylerall5
There is absolutely no way that two of Bell, Glasnow, and Meadows are going to be involved in the same deal.
SuperCooper
I know the Sox are trying to break the bank in prospects in any deal but if they can somehow get Meadows and Glasnow, there is no reason to get greedy and try and get much more. If the Pirates will move those two stud pieces, add a lesser prospect and call it a day.
Philliesfan4life
If the pirates have to trade Meadows in the deal, then I would say no because he’s gonna be Cutch”s replacement, they should put cutch in the deal instead.
mcdusty31
Cutch isn’t exactly what you’d be looking for in a rebuilding oriented move
Priggs89
The only way Cutch is “in the deal” is if it’s a 3-team trade and somebody decides to pay a high price for Cutch’s past production. Then those prospects can go to the Sox. Otherwise, they’d have no interest in Cutch.
Getting Cutch now would be such a Kenny Williams move though, so I wouldn’t be shocked. The only way it could be more Kenny-esque is if this was 3 years from now when Cutch has completely lost it.
kerplunk905
Sox fans have, for the most part, bought into the rebuild; and would realize getting Cutch makes no sense for a rebuild. How does Cutch help the Sox when they are (hopefully) contenders in 2020 or 2021? He is a free agent after 2018, right?
chesteraarthur
What you just suggested is a break the bank type of return.
worship21
wont get Meadows, he replaces McCutchen when he leaves as FA!
fbf923
Man, if the Pirates can land this guy, we may actually have something to look forward to this summer.
ncbravesfan2016
If i was the Braves I would offer Rio Ruiz Max Fried Dylan Moore Mike Sorka Travis Demeriette and Ian Anderson for Quintana Fraizer and Robertson.
chopper2hopper
I bet braves fans would loooooooove that.
Brixton
And you still wouldnt even be close
Priggs89
Deal.
Oh shoot. I didn’t see that you put Quintana’s name in there. Take him out, and then the Sox might be interested in that package.
floridapinstripes
While you did offer a few good prospects the CWS need position players more then pitchers. Ruiz and Demeritte aren’t nearly good enough.
It’d have to start with Albies since the Braves won’t give up Swanson.
Albies (12th) Allard(77th) Acuna and Wentz
Compare that to
Moncada(1st)Kopech(30th)Basabe Diaz
The Red Sox also paid Off over 30 mill of Moncada’s contract and almost 40 mill on Sale’s
Plus you are adding DRob which will cost you a good prospect even with the money he is owed.
Priggs89
Those packages aren’t even close. And the Red Sox didn’t pay off anything. They were on the hook for that portion of Moncada’s deal no matter what.
floridapinstripes
Yea you’re right add in Anderson and it’s closer
floridapinstripes
So add Demeritte for Drob
chesteraarthur
oh look, a crazy 1 sided braves trade proposal.
Priggs89
I haven’t seen one of those in about 6 minutes.
antonio bananas
why? so the braves can be this year’s diamondbacks?
Priggs89
Wouldn’t that involve them trading way too much for a mediocre pitcher? This deal would be pretty much the exact opposite of that…
0scar
If the Braves want Quintana, Albies would have to be the centerpiece of the deal. If I were the White Sox, I would ask for Albies, one of Newcomb/Allard/Anderson and Demeritte.
RockHard
Jose Quintana is a #3..
Priggs89
Sure, on the Red Sox probably…
GoSoxGo
If the Sox trade Quintana, who picks up the 400 innings he and Sale pitched? It took Holland the last three years combined to reach 200. Shields? Maybe, but then someone else needs to pick up the 114 innings he pitched for the Sox last year. It will take three starters and a bullpen with rubber arms to pick up the slack.
Philliesfan4life
Unless they rush giolito , lopez and fulmer
baseballfan 3
Who cares? 2017 ain’t they’re year. Keep adding those prospects. And hey, #1 pick in the draft don’t sound all that bad.
jojo 2
Who cares who they have pitching? You do know this a rebuild right? Totally irrelevant
clif22
Proper assessment of the value lost between Sale and Quintana; however, irrelevant in the midst of a rebuild. Shields is pitching out his contract and between he and Holland you hope one can return to form to flip. It will be a revolving door in the rotation with Rodon until prospects develop. In the meantime you hope to catch lightning in a bottle like the Cubs did with Arrieta. If the Sox can once again pencil in a solid 1-3 starters then they attack free agency.
stryk3istrukuout
While I’m sure that’s the least of their concerns if it means they can acquire a bunch of stud prospects, they would probably just go and sign someone like Colby Lewis on a one year deal to eat some innings. Chris Volstad, in AAA, also has a fair amount of MLB experience. As well, at least one maybe two of the acquired prospects will likely pitch a solid month in the bigs this year.
Dock_Elvis
I’m willing to give the Sox the best one inning of my life….and ensure they get a higher pick in 2018. That’s 1 down….199 to go….assuming they are smart enough not to pull me after one hitter. I can sell some outfield plaza seats…people like catching home runs. I’m a great deal. I’ll take $20 over 30 years or $15 over 16 with 3 option years. Im easy…and i wont cut any uniforms up beyond how much they rip trying to get me in one of them.
kindness
I want my White Sox to flirt with 120 losses and grab the top pick in the draft. that’s what they need to add on to this rebuild. Oddly, I will watch them more this year because we finally have direction.
Dock_Elvis
They need to deal more pieces to ensure the top pick…you dont want a few wins meaning #2. But I do think they should lower ticket prices if they are gonna sell a AAA team to their fans. Im curious to see if there’s a few games that they can’t sell more than 4k.
Priggs89
Their ticket prices are cheap already. Add that to the fact that you can buy a back row outfield seat and move up to one of the front rows or even by the dugouts since nobody is there, and I don’t think you can really ask for more…
Dock_Elvis
Priggs89….you’re totally correct. Also if you have kids the Sox will send free upper deck vouchers. Its a great park for a game if you’re a baseball fan. One of my favorite times is Sinatra night. Sox are constantly offering vouchers….they even call early and let you know about specials coming up….codes….etc.. Like I tell people….the Red Line goes to the south not just up at Belmont and then Addison. Its where the Red Line 9 handle came from 10 years ago
stryk3istrukuout
120 losses? Good God….you want the first pick, not to be removed from the league completely. 58-104 should do it
comebacktrail28
Averaged a 3.35 era and 200 innings over the last 4 years …….. Pitching in AL …… With a pathetic Defense behind him …… In one of the top 3 hitters parks in baseball …… Signed the next 4 years for 36mill …….. When
Derrick Holland 1 yr 8mill
Charlie Morton 2 yr 14mill
Mike Pelfrey 2 yr 16mill
Is the Market but he’s overrated and a #3
pplama
Also had the third largest decline in called strikes due to pitch framing (Sale was first) Dioner Navarro killed that pitching staff last year.
baseballfan 3
Do it Buccos, do it.
Q, Cole, Taillion, Nova is a really nice top 4. They have plenty of candidates for the 5th spot, even if they give up Glasnow.
I’d rather give up Meadows than Bell. Meadows has injury issues and Bell is a special bat (don’t even care about the defense).
Adding Glasnow to Gioloto would be very very nice for the Sox. Meadows, Glasnow, + whatever side piece prospect (Bucs have plenty of nice side piece prospects) should work for Chicago.
Though I’d hesitate to give up Keller if they’re already giving up Glasnow. But if that’s what it takes, do it.
pplama
I think Meadows is the sticking point. Sox want him. Pirates don’t want to give him up.
PS- Most Sox fans would prefer Keller to Glasnow.
Something like- Meadows, Keller, Hayes, Hearn on the high end or Meadows, Keller, Diaz, Hearn as a fallback.
If the Sox wanted Glasnow, a deal would already be done, IMO.
baseballfan 3
You’re probably right re Glasnow (though I’m probably higher on him than most).
I have a hard time seeing them trading Diaz though. They traded McGuire last year. Trading Diaz now leaves them dangerously thin at C.
baseballfan 3
I could easily see Hearn in on the deal though. He was kinda like gravy on the Melancon deal.
EKocur57
4 prospects for Quintana is never gonna happen. I don’t even think Meadows is an option, as he’s the reason the Pirates have dangled Cutch to begin with
If the idea is to contend, then Cutch has to stay. End of story. Glasnow, Bell and another prospect? Sure. Go for it
But if you’re talking four prospects–that include guys like Meadows or Keller–don’t walk away. Run. Quintana would be a nice addition but how do you mortgage your future for 12 or 13 wins, some of which another guy will get
kindness
it’s 2017. Wins mean nothing. Look deeper. You get 4 years of control at a ridiculously low cost. Quintana with defense behind him and an offense that actually score runs puts him in the CY Young picture. Especially in the NL.
worship21
Meadows wont be traded he is heir apparent when McCutchen becomes FA.
0scar
If the Pirates had been willing to give up Meadows, I think there would have been a trade by now. If the Bucs and Sox come together for a trade, in all likelyhood Bell or Meadows would have to be dealt. I dont see a scenario were the Pirates keep both for a trade of Quintana.
steelerbravenation
Man I am telling you With Sale & Quintana 2 great aces and Eaton the best player since Willie Mays how did they ever only win 78 games last year. That right there should tell you WAR is a bunch of nonsense.
Quintana is a solid number 2 on a bad team or a great number 3 on a really good team. With that said he should fetch a nice haul from a team looking to win now because he is the guy in a better position to help now. I think a team like the Yankees with a shut down bullpen would be his best fit. But the Pirates if given the opportunity should make a move for him.
lancem00
Eaton is not the best player since Willie Mays. Sorry, buddy.
Brixton
He was being sarcastic, yet his satire is off track, seeing as the White Sox had like 3 offensive blackholes in their lineup, and Shields/Rodon and every other non-Q/Sale starter weren’t anygood.
Using his logic, Mike Trout stinks because the Angels were bad
steelerbravenation
It was sarcasm you did see what I said about WAR didn’t you. All the stat geeks on here don’t shut up about what a great WAR Adam Eaton has and he is mediocre at best.
Priggs89
Dumb comment. Do you think Inciarte is below average at best then?
floridapinstripes
If Quintana is a #3 Folty is a #6.
Philliesfan4life
the pirates are the best fit for him, the yankess barley have a reliable rotation outside of tanaka.
chesteraarthur
“I don’t understand war so it doesn’t work!” gotcha.
babyk79
Mike Trout is an okay #3 hitter on a bad team, he probably hit 6th on the Yankees and platoon with Ellsbury–your logic lol. It’s all about making things relative between apples
therealryan
Obviously Freeman, Inciarte and Teheran are garbage. The pathetic Braves were only able to win 68 games with those bums on their team.
slider32
Glassnow, Meadows,Keller would get it done for the Bucs, but I don’t see them doing that!
hyraxwithaflamethrower
As a Sox fan, I’d love that, but you’re right. They won’t give up both Glasnow and Meadows in a deal.
seanwh01
Even two out of those three is too much to give up.
GoSoxGo
Asking who picks up the pitching slack is not “irrelevant.” The Sox still have to field a team, and that includes pitchers whose arms can take the strain of a long major league season.
gorav114
I can’t see why they are even entertaining this. Why trade young cost controlled studs for potentially another one in a few years. It screams to me they are just trying to see how low they can go on payroll lining up for a top pick and stacked system to make a run. Most GM’s don’t last long enough to see these long term plans out. What’s better then having a young cost controlled top of the rotation starter you can rely on to take the ball every fifth day?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
It’s a risk trading away a reliable and talented young starter, but if two of the guys the WS get back for him hit, they could end up being better. Last year, they weren’t even good enough to be .500. That wasn’t Q’s fault, but it does mean that he is not enough and the best way to get enough is to trade him for his eventual replacement and other talented prospects.
chesteraarthur
They are a bad team that will be wasting the value that q provides now. This is a negative because they will be paying him $ to pitch when the wins don’t help them at all and also will be losing the value they’d receive from trading him so that he can pitch on their bad team.
You trade current value for future value because the future value better lines up with when you think your team has a legitimate chance at being good. When a team is good, adding talent to that team is more valuable because of where they are on the win curve.
For example adding a good pitcher to an 86 win team is a lot more valuable to that team than it would be adding a good pitcher to a 66 win team.
babyk79
Exactly, Quintana’s value for next year and probably 2018 will be in a sense wasted for sox but his value for those seasons of play may be worth something from other teams, and if they pay for those years like the Nats did for Eaton it will behoove the sox to pull the trigger. No one is advocating giving him a way like Chapman (version 1) but if you get paid for value you can’t use why not. They do not have to trade them though and could use him layer of they don’t get blown away.
pplama
The Sox would just sign scrap heap vets, or use 3rd rate prospects like Beck until the “future” develops. That’s why Holland was signed and Covey was nabbed in the Rule 5.
clif22
As a lifelong Sox fan I understand they need to field a team and I prefer one that is in contention, but it is irrelevant until Q is moved. If he is, there are pitchers in the minor leagues and pitchers who can be picked up off the waivers to fill the need.
gorav114
If the Orioles really want to win here is the perfect opportunity to go for it. Mancini, Sisco, Sedlock, Tanner Scott, and Chris Lee for Frazier and Q. I know the Os farm is weak but that’s a major league ready young thumper, #1 prospect, top two pitching prospects and Scott who throws a 100+ consistently. Sisco is supposed to be catcher of the future so the Orioles would in all likelihood need to sign Wieters back. They could then trade Joseph and have Castillo back up and dh. Castillo is a liability defensively anyhow. Then Os run out a rotation of Tillman, Quintana, Gausman, Bundy, and one of Jimenez/Miley/Gallardo. Trade Gallardo or Miley to recoup some of the salary towards Wieters and Frazier. Frazier DH to replace Trumbo. Frazier can also play 3Rd when Hardy is out for his back and MM has to slide over. Fill right field with Michael Bourne for 2 million
kstudly
Sox front office would laugh at that deal.
johncena2016
Schoop feels like the only guy that could headline from a package from the O’s, and even Schoop Sisco and others is probably outdone. But hey, who knows?
hyraxwithaflamethrower
None of those guys is a top 100 prospect. Sox should be getting a top 10 and other top 100 prospects for him.
yanks02026
I just hope the Yankees continue to not be willing to give up tons of top prospects for him, he’s not worth it.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Glasnow, Bell, and a mid-level prospect or two for Quintana. If/when the Sox trade Abreu, they’ll need a 1B.
babyk79
Hers an idea why not ship Abreu with Q to Pirates, might let Pitt be okay with including Bell.
ChiSoxCity
Hey Steve Adams, would it hurt to use an occasional period or two? You’re killing me with the commas and run-on sentences.
pplama
If the Astros are still involved and Musgrove was the sticking point, I’d hope the Sox could get Martes, Tucker, Franklin Perez and Ramon Laureano.
seanwh01
Musgrove and Martes are a good return for Quintana. Adding Tucker too is too much to ask.
pplama
I agree. So I have the ‘Stros keeping Musgrove.
Astros keep Musgrove.
Sox get Martes, Tucker, Perez and Laureano.
jojo 2
Martes Tucker Laureano and Perez…….hard to say no to that if your the Sox.
Priggs89
Meh. I guess talent-wise those two would be a decent return for Quintana. I wouldn’t call it a good return by any means, but definitely decent. That being said, it’d make no sense for the White Sox to trade Quintana for 2 pitching prospects, especially after the Eaton trade. They desperately need to address the bats with a Quintana trade. I’d still happily take someone like Glasnow as a centerpiece, but the rest of the package better have at least one high-potential bat in it.
AvidAstrosFan
I doubt very seriously that Luhnow would offer that large a cache for Quintana. First off I think if Tucker or Martes are in any of the deals it will be only one and not both. As an Astro’s fan I do like Quintana a lot and think he would bolster the rotation and am not fighting to say if he is a #1 or #2. He is good and has proved himself. From Luhnows standpoint, he knows what he has in his prospects and has watched them develop. After years of crap baseball he isn’t goint to sell the farm for 1 pitcher. It just wont happen. If the 2 teams don’t become creative in the trade negotiations a trade wont come about.
therealryan
According to Peter Gammons, the Astros offered the Rays Martes, Tucker, Paulino and 2 other prospects for Chris Archer and the Rays said, thanks, but no thanks. It sounds like the sticking point very well may have been Musgrove.
coldgoldenfalstaff
Martes is the sticking point. Luhnow is quoted that he won’t move him other than for a very high return and thinks he can help next year. Plus many think he could be as good or better than Quintana in 3 years, and the Astros are definitely not desperate for a title this season.
They also just sent Martes, Moran, Paulino and T. Hernandez to the MLB Rookie Career Development Program.
Unless the Sox ask for less or accept multiple high-end pitching prospects in lieu of Martes, I don’t see them as really in, rather checking in to see if anything has moved.
Griffeysox24
Not to mention Quintana is tied for the most quality starts in MLB the past two seasons. IMO this is an underrated statistic. The Sox should get a big return for him.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
They will. I hope it happens before the season starts, but there’s always a contender or team desperate to make the playoffs that could use mid-season pitching help.
astros_fan_84
I think the Astros should wait till July for a big trade. They should see where they are in the division and go from there.
AL West looks very winnable.
chesteraarthur
I think this is a good point. LAA have lots of injury ?s, Texas is going to have an incredibly hard time replicating that kind of record in close games, and Sea has some ? too with their rotation and seeing what seagura is gonna be like
Dock_Elvis
Houston wins over Texas by 3 games. Seattle is 5 back. Oakland surprises many and overtakes a battered Angels team 4th.
AvidAstrosFan
Redline if Seattle is back 5 I will be amazed!!
Dock_Elvis
Yeah…with more thought I realize that predicting a GB # isn’t the best way. It really depends on what it takes to win the west…and if Texas and Houston beat eachother up. I’d be ok saying Seattle is 85-86 wins. So they’d sniff 5-6 games back if Texas and Houston beat on eachother quite a bit. Id say Texas and Houston are 90-95 wins…so yeah…Seattle is 5-10 back…closer to that 5 maybe.
I think the Angels fall apart, and we’re hearing all kinds of Mike Trout trade rumors next winter. A’s surprise and are fun to watch but not a true threat.
slider32
All teams have questions, the Astros might not have enough pitching! It’s a roll of the dice. They thought they had enough last year and they didn’t.
yeahtoast212
How bout a three way trade?
Blue Jays: McCutchen
Pirates: Quintana, Fraizer
White Sox: Elias Diaz, Tyler Glasnow, Josh Bell, Kevin Newman, Anthony Alford, Connor Greene
aff10
Pirates are giving up McCutchen, Newman, Glasnow, Bell, and Diaz for Quintana/Frazier? Man, I love Quintana, but that’s way high for him, and Frazier’s barely valuable
Dock_Elvis
I think its easy to just pile prospects together when it might come down to just one or two.
What I really believe is that a 3 way is coming involving Chicago-Pittsburgh-Yankees. Cutch goes to NY with David Robertson..Quintana to Pittsburgh…and Sox get back a composite of prospects. Perhaps the Sox hold Frazier until the deadline and flip him to SF.
brandonwoofter
Blue Jays: Andrew McCutchen
Pirates: Jose Quintana and Nate Jones
White Sox: Tyler Glasnow, Cole Tucker, Steven Brault, Anthony Alford, Connor Greene, and Max Pentecost
npalley98
Finally a like rating and a site that actually listens to its users.
toby312
Q contract would be a perfect fit for Pirates….affordable
kennyhahn5
I don’t see why the pirates would include Bell in a Quintana trade, if they’re going for it why would they trade a projected starter position player? You can make a similar arguement with glasnow who would project as the 5 starter and provides insurance in case of an injury.
If we take Hahn for his word that he wants to get a similar return as he got for sale, this would have to start with two of the top 3 remaining guys (Keller, meadows, Newman). Any two of those, another top 10ish guy (say maybe Diaz, Brault, or Tucker if Newman isn’t included) plus a fourth like a Hearn, who others have mentioned, would look pretty similar to the return for sale. I think something along those lines is a good trade for both teams. Thoughts?
0scar
For the White Sox, I think the best trading partners are obviously Pittsburgh and Houston. However, the Yankees, Rockies, and Dodgers could offer a deal that would work for all involved. Here are some scenarios:
CHW get: Francis Martes, Kyle Tucker and Daz Cameron
HOU get: Jose Quinatana
CHW get: Austin Meadows, Kevin Newman, and Mitch Keller
PIT get: Jose Quintana and David Robertson (Sox pay 50% of contract)
CHW get: Tyler Glasnow, Josh Bell, and Will Craig
PIT get: Jose Quintana and Todd Frazier (Sox pay 50% of contract)
CHW get: Brandon Rogers, Riley Pint, and Raimel Tapia
COL get: Jose Quintana and David Robertson
CHW get: Clint Frazier, Blake Rutheford, and Miguel Andujar
NYY get: Jose Quintana
CHW get: Cody Bellinger, Willie Calhoun, Will Smith, and Gavin Lux
LAD get: Jose Quintana
For my money, the Pirates still offer the best possible package for Jose Quintana.
billysbballz
There’s absolutely no wayyyy Ya is give up Frazier and Rutherford in same deal for a pitcher who will be 28 and by time they are seriously contending he will be 31-32!
No way no how. Both of those players can be everyday outfielders for years to come and for a pitcher who has decent but not great stuff with great control who has failed a steroid test and has thrown 200 innings for four straight years which equates to allot mileage. No wonder white Sox want deal him asap before he loses trade value which he absolutely will in next year or two!
Send him to Astros or a contending team.
0scar
Well, if the Yankes want Quintana, they’re gonna have to give either Frazier, Torres, Rutheford or a combination of the two. Besides, call me crazy but I think the Yankees will be serious contenders in 2018, at which point, they could have Quintana for another 3 years, for way less than market value.
MB923
Oscar is spot on. In your trade proposal for the Yanks, I think it’s fair but if I’m the Yanks I would swap 1 of Frazier/Rutherford with either Torres/Mateo. I prefer Mateo of the 2, but likely would have to be Torres.
drcrawdad2009
I suspect the Yanks will be awful in 2018 since they stand to lose Tanaka, Sabathia and Pineda later this year.
Dock_Elvis
Thats too much to chicago for quintana and robertson…sticking point is robertson and the contract. They wanna deal Rodgers and Pint…they are going big time shopping around the league…and they arent spending on an overpaid closer like that and giving up prospects to do it. They might not need a closer with Otavino…maybe just another righty pen arm. Quintana to Colorado..fine..but not including Robertson.
0scar
Can never have enough bullpen help. I think that the price for closers these days would make teams look at a guy like D-Rob and be interested. I tnink that it is safe to assume that the White Sox would eat half if not more of the contract if they got top prospects back, especially if packaged with Quintana.
The Rockies are interesting because if they could somehow find a third team that would be interested in Charlie Blackmon, that would accomplish a couple of things. For one, it would allow Desmond to go to the outfield and then they could either trade for a first baseman(like Abreu or Frazier from the WhitenSox) or sign one in free agency(Trumbo?). Also, they could send the prospects from Blackmon to Chicago or keep them so as not to deplete their farm should they land Quintana.
Dock_Elvis
They add a LOT of salary in this scenario. Im not opposed to Quintana…but Im not sure they need Robertson as part of it. Sure..never can have too much pitching…just not sure thats how they have to do it. I cant imagine what itd take to get Quintana Robertson and Abreau in a single deal. I also think the Sox might have better deals for each….but no…cant discount the Rockies. I actually see them signing a 1b first and then moving for pitching.
Bruin1012
The trade proposals you make are for Q and Q alone they aren’t adding in Frazier or Robertson for any of those proposals let alone pay any of the freight.
greg91305
If the ChiSox want Meadows and Bell then scrap the deal. If I’m NH there is no way I’m trading Josh Bell. The best package I would give up is Glasnow, Newman and Hayes. Anything more then that I would be much happier with Glasnow as the 5th starter next year.
comebacktrail28
lol Q would Win 20 games on Pirates
Dock_Elvis
I really like Quintana matched up with Pittsburgh…and hes worth any top end prospect to do it…even if it ends up 1-1.
Nola Di Bari 67
I’ve got Q for 22 wins in NL Central and the rest of NL, hands down.
66TheNumberOfTheBest
If they can trade Cutch for some prospects and add a Cole Tucker type to the deal, then cool, get Quintana.
But no way should they be trading multiple blue chip prospects for one arm.
Glasnow could be a better pitcher a year from now and Quintana could need a TJ.
Just not the right deal for the Pirates unless they can move Cutch. The Astros are the right fit, honestly.
raptor30
Time to involve the Cubbies.
Quintana and Robertson (sox pay 100% of remaining salary)
For
Schwarber and Happ
Dock_Elvis
Sox pay Robertson to pitch for Cubs for that??
Bruin1012
The White Sox would laugh so hard and hang up the phone.
coldgoldenfalstaff
The White Sox are not interested in Schwarber, he’s already got a year of service time, is a one-dimensional player (soon to be a DH, IMO) and was hurt all last year.
They’re looking for high-end multi-tool controllable prospects.
fredhuebner
Be sure to listen to me on am1000 as I break down trade possibilities and provide expert analysis for all four major
sports in Chicago. Also streaming on the web
astros_fan_84
I still think there’s no need for the Astros to make a move unless there’s they like the price.
Last year they were terrible against the Rangers and 5-9 in the line up was garbage for much of the year.
With an improved lineup, they’ll be much better and hopefully play well against Texas.
Wait till July.
chisoxjuan
Any non ChiSox fans including writers needs to understand that Hahn is not going to trade Q for anything less than what he got for Sale. It’s just a matter of how much more he might have to offer to get that return. Hahn’s rebuild has not reached the point where he is looking at roster depth. With the teams mentioned that means stockpiling RHP’s.
Q was a solid #2 on a team with poor defense in a very hitter friendly park. He’s a potential ace on a team with good defense in a pitcher friendly park. Wrigley’s somewhere in between that, but the Cubs are much better defensively.
The best rumor then is Q + Robertson + cash to the NYY. The cash has never looked more appealing to them. Anything less than 6 HQ prospects would be viewed as a weaker return than the Bos & Nat deals. That’s not happening.
fredhuebner
Be sure to listen to me on am1000 as I break down trade possibilities and provide expert analysis for all four major
sports in Chicago. Also streaming on the web….