4:47pm: Rick Shapiro, an executive from the players union who argued on Betances’ behalf at his arbitration hearing, has also condemned Levine’s comments, Rosenthal reports. “For the president of the Yankees to say the things he said is totally unprecedented in salary-arbitration history, an absolute disgrace to the arbitration process and to all of Major League Baseball,” says Shapiro. “The only thing that has been unprecedented in the last 36 hours is that a club official, after winning a case, called a news conference to effectively gloat about his victory – that’s unprecedented.”
1:19pm: Betances’ head agent, Jim Murray, wrote to FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal about Levine’s comments. Perhaps unsurprisingly, Murray expressed anger about Levine’s decision to speak to the media about Betances’ situation.
“[W]e are not going to be bullied by the Yankees team president. His statements are reprehensible and outright false. His desire to conduct a press conference today amounts to nothing but grandstanding and trying to mislead the media,” Murray says.
“This guy was a 3-time All-Star. He is a unique pitcher that the arbitration system had never seen. He is about as unique as they come. We all knew it was going to be a landmark decision because of what this player has done.”
Betances, for his part, says the situation will make him more inclined to head elsewhere once he becomes a free agent following the 2020 season, as MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch tweets. “You look at it a little differently now. I think (free agency) will be a little easier when the time comes,” says Betances.
11:06am: Earlier today, it emerged that righty Dellin Betances had lost his arbitration hearing to the Yankees, meaning he will receive $3MM next season rather than the $5MM he had hoped for. Now, Yankees president Randy Levine is criticizing Betances and his representation at Excel Sports Management for what he describes as a “half-baked attempt” to “use a player to change a well-established market,” as MLB.com’s Bryan Hoch writes (all Twitter links). The hitch was that the best-paid relievers are typically closers, and Betances’ experience in that role is limited. Betances’ $5MM filing number had “had no bearings in reality,” Levine says.
“It’s like me saying, I’m not the president of the Yankees, I’m an astronaut. I’m not an astronaut and Dellin Betances is not a closer,” Levine adds.
Joel Sherman of the New York Post writes that there’s “bad blood” between Betances and the Yankees going back to last season, when the Yankees renewed Betances’ salary for the league minimum of $507K despite Betances’ strong performances to that point.
Sherman reports that Betances tried to get the Yankees to negotiate on an extension this offseason, but the Yankees didn’t go particularly far in pursuing the matter. Betances also tried to get the team to settle on a salary for this season, but the two sides disagreed so thoroughly on what Betances should be paid that they instead went to a hearing without much serious discussion.
The basis of the Yankees’ disagreement is that arbitrators generally don’t reward non-closers with big salaries, and that arbitration salaries are mostly based on precedent. Betances briefly closed for the Yankees near the end of last season but didn’t do nearly as well as he’d done in a setup role. Sherman reports that, during the arbitration hearing, the Yankees argued that Betances didn’t have the high saves totals needed to justify a $5MM salary for a first-timer through the arbitration process, and that his struggles down the stretch (he had a 4.30 ERA with 38 strikeouts, 15 walks, and 12 saves in 23 innings following the trade of Aroldis Chapman to the Cubs) were a factor in their reacquiring Chapman this winter. The Yankees in fact felt that even $3MM was too high a salary for Betances at this point but submitted that figure anyway to make it easier to win the hearing.
Over the last several seasons, MLBTR’s yearly Arbitration Trackers in fact demonstrate scant precedent for a salary of $5MM for a setup man with three-plus years of service. It’s worth noting, however, that Betances has mostly dominated throughout his career, posting a 2.16 ERA, 3.5 BB/9 and a ridiculous 14.3 K/9 in parts of five seasons. Those numbers make it difficult to find exact comparables for Betances. Heading into the offseason, MLBTR projected Betances would receive $3.4MM this offseason.
Yes. Insult your players, it always makes them respect you.
came by to say the same thing. what an idiot. Why say that about one of your own players?
All he said was Betances is trying to make money when the process doesn’t allow him to make that much, and that Betances isn’t a closer… which are both true.
he took it way to far. I just don’t see the point of coming out and saying any of this
Yea in this context that sounds like a really bad and unprofessional comment.
Maybe more so to his representation.
I’m sure there are a few teams that would employ Betances as a closer, kind of sucks to get lumped into something by your employer when you are obviously well qualified to go to greater heights
I agree. Andrew Miller and Bentances would be closers for 3/4 of teams
More like 9/10
The only closers that are better are chapman, Jansen and maybe Davis.
Britton!!!!!!!!!!
I apologize I just came back to correct that.
Osuna says hi
Casilla?
Just Kidding I’m a Giants fan
Cody Allen isn’t too bad
All that being said, the Yankees have a theory of back end bullpen strength. not allowing teams to beat you in the 7th or 8th with the heart of their lineup, The Yankees have stronger 7th, 8th inning guys, Betances being one, Miller another.
While not faulting the Yankees for this, its my contention, and obviously Betances’, that he has more worth by being in a tandem that virtually makes playing the Yankees a six inning affair.
Osuna is close but not better. Nobody has better stats the last 3 years. Most IP and most strikeouts. 1.93 ERA
Miller is not a Yankee anymore
Duh!
But the process does allow him and he was in his right to ask for whatever he wanted. Yankees just come off as whiny and butthurt for no reason.
You’re criticizing a player for choosing to go to arbitration? Why?
No he’s saying it’s foolish to ask for way more than anyone in your shoes has ever got in the similar situation. You’d think it was silly to see people who flip burgers asking for 100k annually right?
That’s a good point in general, but an unfair comparison. If similarly talented burger flippers were being paid 100k annually, and a new burger flipper of the same talent only asked for 75k, and his employer responded with 40k, would that make any sense?
You guys are making me hungry
Now that was funny.
Comparing pro athletes to a min wage job is maybe the worst straw man argument ive ever seen on this site. Gross.
@Reflect – exactly right, Betances had every right to ask, and arbiters had every right to deny. Levine had no right to shoot his mouth off for no reason after the arbiters ruled in his favor.
I’d demand a trade if I were Betances, Levine is a lunatic.
But foolish doesn’t equal immoral or inappropriate. You can say the request was silly but it was still within his rights. There was no need for Levine to trash him.
It’s not a comparison.
It’s drawing a parallel.
Get over yourself.
Is that directed at me? If so, sorry I didn’t use phrasing you like. Feel free to reword this too if you want.
He was criticizing the agents for trying to get a deal that was impossible. I think Levine was mad because it’s a waste of his time. I mean, MLBTR projected him to get a $3.4 million salary and their numbers aren’t usually far off at all. Arbitration salaries are all based on precedent so I think he was calling out the agents for doing a terrible job, not trying to make Betances look bad.
He was calling out the agents for trying to set a new precedent in stopping exclusively using saves to determine reliever salaries, which they had every right to do after seeing Miller dominate the playoffs as a non-closer.
Stupid agents doing…agent things
Betances’ job description would say, in big bold letters at the top, Setup Man.
Levine was totally grandstanding and basically alienating his own player. But he’s right: the Betances camp totally botched this for their player. This is arbitration and the objective is to win a binary argument — a player is worth X or Y. Only two possible outcomes.
And their decision to use theoretical arguments about Betances’ fit as a closer — I actually wonder what comparables they came up with — AND ask for a salary never (?) granted a player like this was delusional.
Why not file a number like $3.7m and actually make it really difficult for the arbiter? $5m was foolish.
Your last paragraph is spot on. The $5M ask was a big reach.
You are right. His agent cost him big time. If he had asked for 3.5 or 4 million he may have gotten it, but not 5 million. The agent blew it.
True or not, he should have been smart and kept his mouth shut.
Why say anything? No comment was even required. The yankees won the arb settlement. Why rub Betances face in it?
Are you lying or just don’t know what you’re talking about?
Actually I think in this case Betances’ request was without basis that showed a lack of respect to the Yankees. I am glad they didnt cave in and pay. He should have been more realistic. I think if he had asked for ~$4mil (maybe just under 4) he could have won. Please look at first yr arbitration history.
Exactly and a $3 million salary for a non-closer the first time through arbitration is still a lot of money. If he had won the hearing too it would be terrible for the Yanks, since his raises every arbitration year afterwards would be higher if he got paid $5 million this year. Lack of respect on both sides but the Yanks don’t have to pay him yet and the Angels renewed Trout’s contract for the minimum (or $1 million, one of the two) before giving him that extension to kick in the year after. Teams really don’t have to pay anyone until they have leverage and service time. If Mike Trout doesn’t get paid immediately then Betances can wait.
Agreed. Talk about kicking a man while he’s dow
Excellent mgmt strategy by Yanks leads to bad long term results. Proven by their history. One reason they have lost their elite position in AL. Good to see from a small market team supporters view. Need more competitive balance in MLB.
Better go back into NYY history.. Georgie did it all the time and thhat’s not said being hateful, but a fact.. Check his long time sparring matches with Reggie jackson, Dave Winfield and that drunkard billy martin.
Betances to Dodgers as free agent in 2020
As a lifelong Yankee fan, let me be the first to say, Randy Levine is a grade A a-hole. He is more concerned with lining his pockets than winning. This whole Yankees youth movement has more to do with saving money than stockpiling young talent. While it’s great to have such promising young talent, don’t be fooled,
this is ridiculous that he would say that there is no need for it
Just the latest illustration that Levine is an idiot.
Only morons think there’s a difference between a dominant reliever who pitches the 9th and a dominat reliever who pitches the 8th. Betances is a top 5 reliever in the sport, and trying to diminish him by saying he’s “not a closer” is just stupid.
Thats not what hes saying though, closers get more money in arbitration… non-closers don’t. Thats what hes saying.
Argue the process is messed up, go for it, i agree, but with the way it works right now, hes isn’t gonna get 5M his first time through
And Betances (agent) was trying to change that. It’s weird that it would bother Levine so much to talk to the media about it. If they really thought $5 million was so outlandish, they wouldn’t have upped their figure to $3 million just to make sure they won.
and changing that isn’t always a good thing, mostly because the statistics used in arb hearings are tradition, which Betances, as a reliever, lacks.
Not basing off meaningless stats would definitely be a good thing. The only people it would be bad for is the owners.
only the owners? What about the players who benefit in arbitration because they have better traditional/counting stats relative to their actual value added? But yeah, it’s always just about the owners being greedy
Fallacious argument – “never try to change things for the better, because someone is always benefitting from the status quo”. The point is that basing arbitration salaries on traditional stats is flawed, not because it hurts Betances specifically, but because we should want salary levels to be proportional to the actual value a player provides on the field. Traditional stats like saves and wins are terrible metrics for judging real value. Betances is one of the top 10 relievers in baseball and should be compensated as such. Levine is coming off as petty, out of touch and immature.
And you forgot thats theres still like 40% of baseball people that don’t buy into sabermetrics, so regardless, it isnt gonna change any time soon
Ah, but the agent’s audience here was a professional baseball arbiter… “buying into sabremetrics” is part of the job. So precedent certainly *could* have changed under the right circumstances.
Betances’ representation had one person to convince with his arguments. The trouble is that when you’re trying to break new ground, you’d better make sure the facts are fully on your side AND that you don’t overreach.
We’ll never know just how good an argument was presented, but my suspicion was that the Yankees simply had an easier number to defend… and thus a better strategy going in.
Forget what was said. His agent overplayed his hand going for a pinch hit grand slam when a based clearing double was all he needed to win the game. Plain and simple in my view.
Well, it always translate onto teams asking for more money from the fans in the form of higher prices of the tickets, asking for more money from TV deals, which pushes teams out of OTA tv, which in turn has translated onto teams signing with pay TV networks… for which the viewers have to pay to watch their team, and regular users of those pay-tv services which do not watch MLB also end up paying for those channels bundled up in their package. Overall the fan ends up paying.
This false narrative has always bothered me. Ticket prices are not a function of player salaries. If anything, it’s much more the other way around. Ticket prices are determined by supply and demand, as the owners will charge exactly as much as they believe will yield them the highest profit. Do you really think that if player’s salaries fell by 10% next year that a single owner would slash ticket prices in response?
No, arbiters are lawyers. Not baseball “sabermetrics” people and the arguments are almost always decided by counting stats. But there was no reason whatsoever for Levine to rub it in after winning.
Exactly. Ticket prices have almost nothing to do with player salaries. Most money from tickets stays in the stadium. It costs a lot of money to put on a Major League Baseball game.
That’s the double edged sword of having non-baseball people overseeing these hearings and that’s not changing anytime soon. For every situation like this where a player is hurt by the process there are dozens that benefit from it.
What he said was that he was as close to being an astronaut as Betances is to being a closer.
Hello
Valid point by rols1026. That same thinking by the Yankees prompted them to sign Orioles setup reliever Andrew Miller to a substantial free agent contract of 4 yrs/$36MM in December of 2014 while allowing their own closer David Robertson to leave for the White Sox for an eventual deal of 4 yrs/$46MM five days later.
They signed Miller to close though.
So what? Andrew Miller had 2 career saves on his resume when they signed him during the 2014/2015 offseason. David Robertson had just come off of the unenviable task of having to fill Mariano Rivera’s big shoes as the Yankee closer and he was more than up to the challenge with 39 saves in 44 attempts.
There is no question as to who the more dominant and impacting reliever is as I post. Many, including the Yankees themselves, thought the same 27 months ago when they opted for Miller over Robertson in free agency.
Lots of people think there is still something to the proven closer, just look at any thing mentioning the nats bullpen and you’ll see a bunch of people over valuing david robertson because he’s a “proven closer”.
He isn’t top 5. He is good, but he isn’t top 5. He wasn’t even the best reliever on his own team prior to the trade deadline.
The best relievers in baseball are Miller, Betances and Britton. Keep the stupid saves stat out of it. Obviously the Yankees have zero interest in keeping Betances, but I don’t understand why they’d run down their own player in the media.
I would add Kanley Jansen to this list as well
If that is a list, then there is no way betances is 2nd. Hell I agree that he isn’t even top 5
Jansen is better than all of them, keep your east coast bias out of it.
Really? I’d say top 5 are Miller, Betances, Jansen, Chapman and Britton. Who would you replace Betances with?
“He wasn’t even the best reliever on his own team prior to the trade deadline.”
Perhaps that’s because 2 of the 3 best relievers (maybe even 1st and 2nd best) in baseball were his teammates???? Put Betances on any other team in baseball and I’d bet he’s probably the best reliever on at least 25 teams, maybe more.
The arbitrator seem to think there was a different and denied him 5 mil. Apparently he wasn’t convinced he was a top 5 reliever. His union rep should have known. Because of his absurd request he cost his client upwards of a million dollars.
It says in the article that the Yankees didn’t even think that Betances was worth 3M.
So with that in mind if his agent had asked for 4M instead of 5, I don’t think it’s a stretch to suggest that the Yankees could have countered with 2 or 2.5. The judge would probably rule with the Yankees again and Betances would get even less than if his agent had asked for 5.
This is all hypothetical obviously but I wouldn’t say Betances’ agent screwed him more than the Yankees did
Betances is one of the most dominant set up men in the game and deserved the 3 million he got, probably a little more. As a closer posting a 4 era 1st time through arb, he probably got over paid. His rep was out of line, but so was Randy Levine. Both sides have reason to be upset.
I think I would be pretty happy if someone “insulted” me with a three million dollar offer.
What if you made say, $40K at your job for 3 years in a row, and during those 3 years you were considered one of the best performers at your company and was regularly viewed as the go-to guy on every important project, but when it came down to your yearly review you asked to make $45K, and they countered with $43K? That’s what happened here in normal-person money/laymans terms.
There’s also taxes and paying your agent and management, players always get less than half their reported wage – we always forget this. This is also why some players go broke, because idiots like us keep saying “OMG he makes 3 million a year, he’s rich!”
If your a teacher you get a 500 dollar raise!
Players DO NOT get less than half, unless they opt to sign Boras and other agents but that’s their own stupidity. They can go by perfectly well without paying extra money but that would be like saying “players end up broke because they have to buy expensive cars and houses”.
Agents get around 5% of contracts (agents make their money on endorsement deals more than contracts), meaning Betances lost a whopping $150,000 there. Taxes? Depends on where he claims residency, but he’s probably not paying more than $1MM, if that (most players may keep an apartment in the city they play, but live in a non-income tax, or low taxing, states. Which is why seemingly every ballplayer lives in Florida or Arizona [AZ only taxes on MLB income earned during the regular season, so free ride on spring training and post season].
Hahaha! The Yankees try so hard to portray themselves as a classy organization, but they are still just a laughing stock.
To be fair, Levine is correct in terms of the agency trying to revamp the market. The problem is, the arb process is archaic and crude in terms of valuing players. When stats like Wins are the highest regarded stat for a starting pitcher in the arb process during this era, then I think it’s time to start making some changes. Not sure what it would take but legal and lawyers handle these cases and ratios and percentage stats are difficult for them to quantify into a value.
I personally believe Betances deserves more than $3m, maybe closer to $4m. But MLBTR had him at $3.4m and my model had him at $3.2m. If they were to change the crude valuation system then we’d see more deserving guys like Betances paid closer to their actual value.
It is ridiculous to say he is worth more based on what closers make, which is based on those “archaic” sets of considerations. The best way to evaluate them is by using traditional statistics instead of projections on what HE could have been HAD he not surrendered homeruns, HAD he pitched in a different park, HAD he faced an average offense, HAD he played with the best infielders in the history of baseball. Classic stats like: innings pitched, hits and walks surrendered/given per inning, men on base he got when he went in to pitch, how many of them advanced, how many of them scored, how many he left and how many scored or were stranded by the following pitcher. WHIP is useful, ERA not so much in relievers.
But any model which uses a salary as base to calculate the “value” of a player is defective if the base salaries used to make the projection are the result of a flawed proccess. It is basically the argument of the black box: if crap goes in, crap goes out. And as long as crap is being used as input, then crap will continue to come out, even if the projection is beautifully constructed.
This is one of those situations where yes you’re correct but why even say it. Especially since it looks very likely Betances will eventually be worth quite a bit more and isn’t likely to forget. At the very least point your contention at the process and try to look like you feel something for the player who clearly is worth more than this broken system allows.
Lets say I agree that betances is worth more than his salary. I shall then respond with MOST players…POST arbitration…are worth LESS.
Free agency is when the players screw the owners.
Arbitration is when the owners screw the players.
Put your time in, then get rewarded. Until such time, shut your mouth…
Yes, because nothing says “owners getting screwed” like them voluntarily agreeing to pay players their market value…
“Shut your mouth?” But Levine can run his player through the mud to the media? Hmmm
The problem is his representation which has been trying to force the Yankees’ hands for the past two seasons. Sometimes agents overplay their hands and it costs the player. Even Scott Boras does, however his averages and performance can’t be compared in the same breath to excel.
While Betances is in fact better than most MLB relievers and he would be the closer on most other teams, if he were awarded the $5M as a 3rd year middle reliever this would significant impact on the payrolls of most MLB ball clubs.
The Yankees did not want to budge from their number because they did not want to set a precedent throughout MLB. And while most owners are probably breathing a sigh of relief that the Yankees won the arbitration, I think their relief (pun intended) will be short lived. When a middle of the road reliever like Blevins gets $6M like he did this year that starts setting the MR pay scale higher for everyone, even through arbitration.
Betances is not a middle reliever. Adam Warren is a middle reliever.
A middle reliever is a reliever who isn’t a closer nor longman
EVERY reliever is a middle reliever unless he is the closer. And even then closers are nothing but glorified middle relievers.
No it’s not. Set up man. Or fireman.
stop labeling relievers altogether this is how we got in this mess!!!
Its really dumb to financially value saves like this, if a reliever gives up 6 runs in the 7th, the closer doesn’t get in the game. If the reliever has a clean inning, he gets no reward, the closer gets the financial reward – thats EFFED.
If the Yankees were, indeed, fighting Betances on behalf of “other teams” then that’s collusion and that’s seriously illegal.
Lol
A
Wow, you WON the hearing, now slllowwwlllyyy step away and disengage the media…
If Betances’ representation did a lousy job at the arbitration hearing, then so be it. Just chalk it up as a W and move it along. There’s really no need whatsoever to sit there and gloat afterwards. Just plain classless. Imagine what he would’ve said if the Yankees lost at the hearing? Good golly!!
I think the point is that they really lost this before the hearing. This was STUPID, almost everybody could see there was no basis to expect he would win. Who said they did a lousy job at the hearing? Only you are saying that. They had many great things to point to, such as incredible stuff and very good results. It was a Lodin battle. First yr arb relievers will not win $5mil, especially when handed the closers role and doing okay, not lights out. I am saying his agents did a lousy job picking a number. They did a lousy job advising their client to push it this far. And you can’t fault Dellin, he was being advised very poorly. Maybe he will change agencies as a result.
*losing, not Lodin LOL
It’s Randy Levine who isn’t in in reality – Andrew Miller singlehandedly showed that a reliever can be an elite game-changer who doesn’t always get the last out of the game.
The game changed, Levine is clinging to old ways and in a dangerous way. He has no right to say this about Betances – he won, just shut up and move on.
Miller just reminded people what a reliever is. A few years ago Rivera did the same, he was one of the most powerful reliever (non closer) I have seen in the last 30 years besides “Goose” and even maybe Righetti. People act as if Miller discovered something or pioneered something, but in fact he was used as relievers HAVE to be used.
Arbitration is so dependent on precedent, it’s not the area to try to make a drastic change like this, because you’ll just lose. Go for smaller incremental value increases for holds or whatever other stats you want to value, but trying to go for it all in one hearing seems like a rather foolish plan if your goal is actually to change the process and not just get your client more money.
I understand what the Yankees president meant and what his reasoning was but that is stuff you don’t go and say to the media. I would not be surprised to see Batansis be traded by the end of the season. Especially with Chapman there and the Yankees won’t be contending and he has good stuff so a team could do what the Cubs did last year and go out and get a star late Inning guy to help them go far in the playoffs. Obviously the Yankees won’t get as much for him as they did for Chapman but they should still be able to get a fair amount for him. Who knows I could even see him in a Nats jersey by opening day. And be their closer as well.
Shut up, Randy.
Boy it’s tiring hearing players throw a fit over getting their contract renewed at league minimum. I’m sorry but teams have that right and they should execute for the 3 years they can. The system is in place for a reason.
You’re tired of players getting upset at not being given a raise when they have an all star season and you decide to bring that up in a story about the Yankee president holding a press conference to tell the world that Betances is stupid & incompetent.
You’re a joke.
Randy Levine is always the bad guy when the Yanks want to make an unpopular stance. Betances should have known they were going to trash him in arbitration. We all knew he was going to lose. Betances is worth the money, but so are a lot of pitchers that aren’t yet ready to go to free agency. Guys like Harvey, de Grom, and Syndergaard are worth over 15 millon a year, but they don’t get it.
“Betances should have known they were going to trash him in arbitration. ”
Arbitration is not a game, they can’t “trash him”.
You don’t get it if you think this is about losing in arbitration.
This is only about Levine needlessly insulting Betances in the media.
So I guess now there is no chance betances stays with the Yankees long term.
doesnt look like it
so weird to see the yankees of all teams turn into penny pinchers all of a sudden when since 2001 they were giving 10+ million to anyone who asked
I think they have already made up their mind about him before Levine said anything. Now it leaves them open to move him at the deadline without getting trashed by the fans. They might move him to the Nats in spring training if they could get Robles and Feede for him or something like that. The Cubs seemed to have the same problem with Rondon when he was bumped out of the closer role by Chapman. Even Andrew Miller got paid as a closer before he was moved, so all the good set up men want to be like him. It makes sense!
You went to arbitration and won as you should have . Just dont see how public comments chastising a player you are going to be counting on this year benefits anyone . Arrogant and bone headed
Maybe they want to move him!
I love the Yankees…I hate Randy Levine. Promote Cashman to president!
Maybe it’s the new norm with Presidents these days, wanting to publicly criticize and spar with their opponents, needing to get in the last word at any cost. lol
Looks like he’s not resigning
Maybe if the yankee manager stopped overusing him so much, having him throw almost every day, he wouldn’t Peter out at the end of the season. I’m just a fan and I can tell every year when he’s going to start fading. It’s hard to believe that his manager died not see it
Just Wait until he gets the “dusty baker over-use treatment ” for the next 2 yrs
How long before he’s traded to the Mariner’s?
Heck, Chris Bryant makes less than a million, we all agree players should be paid for their production but that is not the case in most jobs. It’s all about longevitiy
Kris Bryant.
Christina Bryant
Kristina Bryant. lol
Betances is going to make his money when he hits free agency. But Randy Levine just assured all of us that Betances will be signing elsewhere. When you insult a player and his agency in a public forum, it never results in that player returning to the team long term, and I don’t blame Betances at this point. Betances and his agent lost the arbitration case…if your Levine, why add insult to injury and make the guy look bad in the press? Idiot.
Levine should shut the hell up and stop disrespecting his player, even though he is mostly right. Betances has been a key to the Yankees, but he is not an adequate closer. He was 12 for 17 in save situations this year, which is not great. His era was above 3, which is not great. And he can’t throw to bases. He might have the talent to be a great closer, but he is not one yet. But this whole things sounds like Levine letting his emotions get the best of him. Players have the right to an arbitration process.
Let’s face it, none of this will matter if the Yankees offer Betances a fat contract when he is a free agent.
I like that the agent claimed the statements were “outright false” and then he reiterated exactly what was said.
Did he say when his team would stop being trash
These are usually short term emotions after a short bitter process. After shaking hands with Cashman and Girardi and being assured that he’s valued and appreciated he’ll settle in and do his job. A quick change to Boras and in 18 months they’ll sign him to an extension where everyone is all smiles, especially him.
The Yankees: finding new ways to make you shake your head.
Most arbitration cases are a formality more than anything. They’re smooth as silk. But when the two sides are in disagreement, then boom goes the dynamite.
I see no reason why a closer should get paid more than a reliever. If anything, middle relievers like betances deserve more because he often pitches more than one inning, and is more flexible based on when in the game he throws. I get that in this process, precedent is important, but sometimes as times change, we have to recognize that precedent is wrong.
I’m siding with Levine. The agent is bonkers proposing that Betances is a once in a generation, unlike any to have ever played the game before. Seriously? That’s disturbingly smug. DB is an awesome player, but there’s no precedent for the salary he requested.
The entire league is thrilled the Yankees won and are probably happy that Levine took the hit. This saved teams around 4-5 million for per player over their arbitration years.
If the Yankees can get a great a package, he’ll be gone soon enough.
He is unlike almost anyone weve ever seen. For his career, he’s been a top 5 reliever in the league. He doesn’t close though, so he gets punished by this process
Fire Levine…drop mic
Hey, if the Yanks don’t appreciate him, I know a couple of teams that would.
Yeah I’d love to see him setting up for Kenley
Can we just put together a package to make this happen before ST games start?!
If Levine thinks so poorly of Betences, we’ll gladly trade you a 3 million dollar bench player for him straight up. For the he’s not a closer people:: there are many games that are saved or lost in the 7th and 8th innings too. What good is a closer without the premier setup guys to get the lead to the closer?
Levine should have just kept his opinion to himself–What will Betances and his reps ask from here on out because of the comments?????
Comments from the front office are not going to change his compensation. It is a fair point that comments may piss him off and ultimately change where he chooses to play once a free agent. And we must remember that is the first time the player gets to choose. If he decides he wants to walk away at that time from the team that drafted him and honored his talent with a chance to pitch in a very big spotlight then he leaves.
As a Yankees fan I am happy they didn’t hand him a blank check or the arbitrators didn’t decide to go against many years of established value. As a baseball fan I love to see players earn all that they can, but not so much that we can’t even afford to go to a baseball game. He will get paid, and get paid very well. The truth is that probably nobody will pay him more than the New York Yankees if they are able to hammer out a deal at that time. Ridiculous asks now are his right. Calling it ridiculous is the Yankees right. As it is mine or yours. We pay for all this, remember.
Asking for too high of a salary now won’t help him later; unless the fallout of this debacle is he wakes up and smells whatever foul concoction Excel has been brewing.
If you know a couple of teams that would have them contact the Yankees with an offer. I’m sure betances is gone this year
Levine was stupid, and Betances was over-valuing himself based on previous arbitration awards. Makes for a toxic relationship. Betances threat to leave when he gains free agency is pointless–he’s going to go where the money is. Do I think it’s rational that Betances makes one sixth of Chapman? Of course not,but that’s the system. There’s a reason why players and teams try to stay out of arbitration–because that’s where harsh words are said.
Levine’s problem was that he should have kept quiet, but as a commenter observed above, I’ll bet you there are a lot of GMs that were happy the Yankees said no and won.
+1
Ok the relationship is in trouble.trade him to the Phillies for Jeanmar Gomez,lets do it
What was really disturbing on Delan’s part was when he said he is going to have to rethink and maybe just pitch one inning and with no one on base. If that’s how he feels he needs to go.
All Levine has done here is devalue his product. He should come out and say exactly what several of you have echoed, “Dellin could close for most teams in the game and we are happy to have him as a dynamic bullpen weapon.”
This way, he can trade him this summer and land another Gleyber Torres level talent to add to the stockpile of future high impact Yankee players. Would it be that out of reason for David Robertson to falter, the Nats to lose interest, and turn their closer chase to Betances with Victor Robles offered in a package?
Betances should come to Mets when contract is up I’m sure they will give him 5 M
come to Mets
Maybe they argued that he has to watch Dead Weight like CC Arod Tex Elsberry all make 20mill a year and he does more then them combined
Phil Jackson type crap right here
Lots of people are right in the comments section.
First, DB was asking for too much. The system is setup so that you get paid when you’re a free agent.
Is he a great reliever? Absolutely. Is he worth more than 3 million? For sure. Did the Yankees do all teams a favor by winning their arb. case? Definitely.
However, there was nothing to be gained by trashing him in the media. This doesn’t help trade him for the most value. It doesn’t make him cost any less. It does make the Yankees look unprofessional, though.
Levine didn’t even know Betances’ name and accused him of declining ticket sales. After winning, he gloats to the media. Any person in business knows you don’t freaking do this. I wouldn’t blame Bentances for going to another team when he hits free agency.
So much overkill on this.. simplicity is key when it comes to this argument..
Betances and his agent probably asked for too much, seeing how it is his first arbitration year. Knowing the Yankees offer, they had to know the risk if they lost. You can double down on a 11 vs a 6 in blackjack, but if you lose, it was your own gamble. If he asks for $4million, he undoubtedly gets it. You can’t ask for nearly twice what they are offering, when what they are offering is substantial for a reliever in the first place. If he got $5 million, by the end of his arbitration years, he’d be making $10-$12 million. Reliever – closer or not – that’s high, really high..
From the Yankees side – very bad PR to call Betances out like that. If a player does that, he looks ridiculous – as a business owner, you need to accept the resolution – good or bad and either applaud the system professionally or acknowledge that the system is exactly that – a system. Win or lose that case, you do not gloat or show your dismay. In either situation, it’s a slap in the face to the player.
He is going to look fantastic in a Red Sox uni.
This is one hell of an exciting arbitration hearing. People say Betances will forget it all when NY throws a nice contract/money at him after his final year. But, I get the feeling he’s going to sign elsewhere purely in spite of the Yankees.
#NotMyPresident
Levine also said that Derek Jeter was nothing more than a baseball player, and he’d be paid as a baseball player. Which, is like saying a Ferrari is nothing more than a means of transportation. Considering Levine had no trouble publicly insulting the face of the Yankees, today’s comments are no surprise at all.
Jeter? Ferrari? No…. Jeter was more a Toyota Camry. It ran good for longer than the fancy schmancy cars like Ferarris.
Maybe, but I think you get my point – that Levine should keep his trap shut. This is twice now that he has harmed his organization’s stature with no potential benefit.
Throw victor Robles’ name in a trade that would get a conversation going. Dellin betances is a great pitcher but baseball is s business he should save it for free agency why argue now
Two observations from a fan: (1) Betances was looking for way too much – should’ve exchanged #s at something in the $4.5M range as the $5M seemed like too big a jump; and (2) Levine is a moron for taking shots at one of his star players in the media and did some irreparable damage to the clubhouse morale.
Classless and unprofessional
Levine also embarrassed himself by suggesting there is any significance to the “position” of a closer.
Ban the save stat.
Good or bad… we lost Dellin Betances!
An astronaut? Yeah that’s a fair comparison… smh
Wait… so the best reliever isn’t necessarily the one with the most saves? Pot meet kettle, Yankee fans.
As a Yankees fan Levine and Trost need to be fired ASAP.
Here is the point i think everyone is missing. If you are the best at what you do you should be paid like it. It’s funny how everybody saying he doesn’t have a right to file those numbers but if we were in his position we would do the same. If he is the best setup man in the game pay him as such. Hell lock him down for two years. When Mo was in his prime no closer made more than him (Ask Francisco Rodriguez when he tried to negotiate with the Angels and they told him you’re good but you’re not Rivera). When he was part of No Run DMC, he was and is as shut down you’ll get. But its ok to pay Brokecoby Ellsbury $160+ million and get nothing, pay Chase Bradley $54+ million for basically nothing. But we don’t want to pay a shutdown setup man top dollar because of principal. We are not booing and calling his strikeout numbers ridiculous when we winning games.
Nobody is missing any point. And principle has nothing to do with it.
He’s under team control and will get paid like it. Period. When he becomes a free agent and can control his own direction he can seek as much money as he wants
Ellsbury made his money in free agency. When Betances gets there he will too. Until,then he plays for a monetary amount commensurate with his experience in a tightly controlled system of predictable but escalating financial reward. Of his own choice.
Make it make sense. Or better yet, put you in that situation. If you are the best at what you do, what’s the difference? If are the best in your field, dont you think you should be paid accordingly? Again, whats the diffetence? He is the best setup man in the game. Period. Yet, people like you won’t pay him because the system makes it so. But Ellsbury was at best an ok player with a history of injuries and you pay him all that money? Yes you still are missing the point, and it has a lot to do with principal. When Cleveland was going through their championship run they SIGNED their young stars early. That’s how you do that. You show your young players that They can be taken care of. They didn’t care about the market or about precedents they wanted to lock their players up. Again if he is the best, stats say he is one of the best, fans love him And he is part of your future pay him.
Teams sign their young stars early with consideration for what they would have earned going through the arb process and then what they theoretically could make as a free agent. Teams that make those offers typically offer less than what a player might make as a free agent and players that accept those offers take that discount as security against an injury that might lower their value or possibly end their career. NOBODY pays top of the market for a player under control, certainly not for a player going through arbitration for the first time.
Cleveland signed those players as a business decision, not out of love for their fellow man. They most definitely cared about the market and tried to receive maximum value. They are hoping that by signing those players early they can SAVE money.
The point and the principle are the same; there’s no upside to paying him more than the arbitration process dictates unless he’s willing to sacrifice a significant portion of his potential free agency earnings by signing an extension now. And that’s only if the Yankees and Betances can agree on on what his value is.
If Betances is part of the future they have years left to sign him to an extension.
it makes no sense at Levine would say such a thing.