Manager John Farrell says the Red Sox have been and continue to be trying to acquire starting pitching depth, Jason Mastrodonato of the Boston Herald writes. The Red Sox are dealing with injuries to starters David Price and Drew Pomeranz.
“That’s ongoing,” says Farrell of the Red Sox’ efforts to find pitching. “Our efforts haven’t picked up just because of recent developments. It’s always been there.”
Price is dealing with an elbow strain and will meet with a team physician tomorrow. Pomeranz’s velocity is not up to his usual standards as he returns from a triceps injury, and the Red Sox pulled him from his start for precautionary reasons yesterday.
Farrell echoes earlier comments from Red Sox president of baseball operations Dave Dombrowski, who said that the Red Sox had difficulty luring depth starters during the offseason because their rotation was perceived to be well stocked. One depth veteran, Kyle Kendrick, will start for the Red Sox today and could be important to their short-term plans. Kendrick has not appeared in the big leagues since 2015, when he was with the Rockies, although he’s fared well so far this spring. Farrell also names Henry Owens and Brian Johnson as healthy pitchers who could potentially help if they could be more consistent.
Should the Red Sox acquire a starter from outside, the current list of free agents includes Jake Peavy (who is dealing with personal issues), Doug Fister, Colby Lewis, Edwin Jackson and Jerome Williams. Other players currently in camp on non-roster invites could soon become available if they don’t make the rosters of their current teams. The Red Sox could, of course, also look to make a trade, perhaps near the end of camp as teams finalize their rosters.
Buchholz
No kidding. You can NEVER have too much pitching. You have a bullpen andBuchholz has great stuff. He may have stunk it up for 1/2 of last season but he went to the pen, got it together and didnt complain. It was stupid to dump him for nothing but cap space.
There is no CAP in MLB!
You now lose draft picks if you go over too much, so there is most definitely a cap.
You really need to read the new collective bargain agreement..you don’t lose draft picks they just fall 10 spots if you go over by 40mil. The threshold is gonna get larger by the year..a cap is a solid spending ceiling such as the NFL. SO THERE IS NO SALARY CAP IN MLB!
If there were no ramifications, Buchholtz wouldn’t have been traded in the first place. While it may be technically correct that there isn’t a “cap” there are still significant penalties that can be reset. The Yankees and Red Sox have made it clear their intentions for 2016. Never mind Buchholtz, does anyone really think Carlos Beltran would be in Houston this year?
It’s called a soft cap. Your point that you made (which you were correct by the way, thank you for pointing that out) proved that there are ramifications under the existing soft cap that prevent teams from wanting to exceed the threshold.
No problem..didn’t mean to come off as condescending. Yea both Yanks and Sox should strive to stay under the threshold..even as it grows adjusting accordingly. Look at all the scam artist owners of “small market” teams that have benefited only to pocketed the penalties paid to them.
please take Kazmir, McCarthy
We will give you those hurt players and you give us dale in return
Dale? Dale Sveum?
No thanks and I am a dodger fan
Bucholz 13 million dollar salary would have had big long-term implications. That contract would have handcuffed them in future free-agent dealings because of the luxury-tax and being a repeat offender in consecutive years really drives up a penalty percentage.
Staying under the luxury cap this year helps them sign guys next offseason and perhaps go over the tax without a heavy consecutive year tax.
Quintana? I’d say not likely but I wouldn’t rule it out with DD in charge.
Who does DD have left as blue chippers? He already emptied the tank.
Devers, Groome, Sam Travis.
Otherwise it would have to be Beintendi and I don’t see Boston doing that.
Benintendi has way more value on his 6 years on service time then Q’s 4. Wouldn’t call Travis a blue chipper. He is not a top 100 on any list I know of. Red Sox could still swing a trade for Q but it would depth what little depth they have. Erod, Swihat, Devers, Travis would be a pretty good package imo.
On another note, anyone else find it funny how hyped up Koepach is right now? AFTER he left Boston? Hardly heard a postive thing about him in Boston recently but now he is a mega prospect. Best of luck to him and wouldn’t be shocked if he ends up being the best player in that package.
Agreed about Koepsch, all we heard about is how big a psycho he is, fistfighting his own teammates etc. now he’s the pillar of the CWS rotation without ever setting foot in the bigs, smh
As an established front of the rotation pitcher, Quintana has was more value than Benintendi, an unestablished prospect. It would take Beni+ to get Q.
Also, Kopech has always been touted, not more so now.
Travis was #98 on Keith Law’s list.
Q would be the number 4 pitcher on the Red Sox.. The Red Sox got Chris Sale without giving up Benintendi. Benintendi took over the number one spot before the season but his value was way up while Moncada took a hit. AB just lit the world on fire the end of the season. He is going nowhere. The trade I prosposed could be beaten fairly easy, but it would no doubt help drive the price up a bit. Swihart has been rumored to be someone the CWS like and would be nice as a 4th piece.
These two teams just don’t match up in a trade at all. The Red Sox are looking for aa 7th or and 8th starter not a stud.
Are you kidding? Look at every article about Kopech. Before it was all about his troubles, now he is the next big thing. He was always on the list but never talked up due to his issues.
That package doesn’t get you close tbh
How does it not get you close? Houston and Pittsburg could beat it, but Devers is a top 20 prospect. Erod is a 3-4 starter. Swihart is a player the CWS have always liked ( and they really love Devers too,) Travis is always a solid prospect. The fact of the matter is you have to look at teams needs, Q has a lot less value to the Red Sox then he does to say Houston, so they have the incentive to trade for to be a number 2 starter, he is a clear 4 in bean town.
“On another note, anyone else find it funny how hyped up Koepach is right now? AFTER he left Boston?”
Man I feel like I need to go back and look at ridiculous Boston fan trade proposals talking about how he was off-limits for Sale.
I myself would have not wanted to include him, but do not remember his name being excluded from any of the more knowledgeable sports writers. Some of the half wits might have said it was possible he might go..
He’s the one they might just have reason to get burned by the trade on. Not moncada.
Andrew Benintendi is a promising but unproven prospect while Jose Quintana is a proven commodity with four years of team control.
FanGraphs Depth Charts, Steamer and ZiPS project 2017 WAR of 1.9, 1.5 and 2.1 for Benintendi and 4.4, 4.0 and 4.4 for Quintana.
Quintana arguably has as much trade value as Chris Sale, who cost the Red Sox Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe and Victor Diaz.
I can’t see the Red Sox trading Benintendi but he would not be nearly enough to land Quintana.
It has nothing to do with Kopech leaving Boston. And I can assure you that it has even less to do with him being a White Sox prospect now. He shot up prospect boards this year because he was dominant when he actually did pitch last year, which came in the second half of the year (aka after all the prospect lists were done, including the mid-season report).
Add him shooting up prospect boards because of his performance + his 100+ MPH fastball + being the second piece in arguably the biggest trade in a LONG time, and it makes sense why you’re hearing a lot more about him to start this year…
Arguable comparison at best. Kopech is most definitely more touted now.
Can you please link me those? Because there is a huge difference between what I’m talking about and what you are talking about. No one cares about crazy fan proposals. Causal idotic fans of every sport will say that stuff. I’m talking non local hype. Look at the recent fluff piece about Kopach wanting to throw 107 miles on I think Bleacher Report. I;m talking about media attention. Kopach was (and rightfully so) overshadowed when the Red Sox had 7-8 top 10- prospects but all the coverage about him was about his addriall usage or his fights. That is what I’m referring too.
Also, who in the world said he was untouchable in Sale trade talks? There were barely any rumoes of Sale to Boston to the day it went down. The players most fans cared about was Benny Baseball and Moncada. Moncada was the one some fans were sad to see go, Koepach was an obvious give for Sale.
Where did I say he isn’t more touted now?
I agree that he is. But there are reasons for that, and none of them are because he left Boston.
The Sox are not trading Devers. They made that decision when they included Moncada. Teams need payroll flexibility today and no team can afford to have all stars at every position. With 2019 being costly for the “B” boys (assuming Betts, Boggarts and Bradley) all remain in Boston, Devers will be expected to play somewhere to balance out the roster flexibility wise. Another “B” also will be arbitration eligible then (Benintendi).
About 90% of redsox nation was saying kopech and moncada were off limits. Saying “neither player would be dealt for sale.”
Groome, Devers, Travis.
CWS have turned down better packages from Houston than this, it’s either Benintendi or dont bother wasting their time – but also Abreu and Quintana for Benintendi and very little else makes sense.
Adding Abreu to the deal? Doesn’t make sense. Benintendi is the best prospect in baseball, and in all likelyhood Boston and CWS don’t line up.
Huge Benni fan, but him alone doesn’t get you in the same room as Q AND Abreu. Little too homer imo
What package have they turned down from Houston?
That is an absurd trade. Jose Q will get 3-5 good prospects, probably not a top 3-5 though.. Tradeing two stars for one star prospect never makes sense… I think you misread my comment. I was saying that those two players just don’t make sense in a trade together. I mean if the White Sox came with that deal, I still probably wouldn’t take it but that is just because Q is kinda a waste on the Red Sox.. Teams like Houston or Pittsburg will give nice hauls for him and it will be a fun season I’m sure.
I think Kelly should be given a few chance before any trade happens. The problems with early trade is the asking price is very high.
Kellys their setup man. His days as a starter are over
Kelly has had more than his fair share of stances to be a starter. He ruined that for himself already.
*chances
John Lester?
Who is John Lester?
Jon’s far lesser-talented twin?
John Lester is a distant cousin of mine. Wouldn’t be so distant if he were rich though….
Probably too close to the season to work this out, but they could have lined up well with the Mets pitcher/Bruce for Bradley, other pieces determined on which Met pitcher, I’m thinking Matz/Lugo/Gsellman.
Absurd. They are looking for DEPTH! Red Sox have six major league starter, with 3 being aces.
bruinsfan94
If the Red Sox have 6 major league starters, 3 of them aces, then why is acquiring another starter even a discussion given what they would have to give up to pick up somebody of quality?
And when did Benintendi become the “best prospect in all of baseball” and EROD a 3-4 starter???
Drinking the Sox cool aid a bit too much.
Well, Keith Law, Baseball America, MLBPipeline, and Fangraphs KATOH projection system all have Benitendi as the #1 Prospect right now.
Drinking the Sox hater-ade a bit too much,
A lot of that is just east coast bias. Had Moncada remained with the Red Sox, he would likely have been the consensus #1 pick.
Is it baseless accusation Monday? Are you using microwaves to listen into Keith Law’s office during deliberations where he had Moncada as #1 initially, but then knocked him down for TV ratings and page clicks? Or are you just making things up out of thin air to help support your unsubstantiated argument and personal bias?
Ever stop to think that Benitendi is the #1 prospect over Moncada because of his .295/.359/.476 slash line over 118 PA in the MLB, but Moncada struck out 12 times in 19 at-bats?
Moncada may very well end up being the better player in the long wrong than Benitendi, but right now 4/5 of the most cited prospect lists have Benitendi as the #1, and all five have him above Moncada, so rocky7 shouldn’t be so surprised that people on this boards would consider him the top prospect, nor is there any reason to believe that Moncada was unfairly judged because he is now in the minor league system of a mid-western club.
Hate to break it to you, Chicago falls into that “east coast bias” rule. Moncada’s struggles with the breaking ball was exposed in AA and MLB last year. Benitendi out played him at every stop, that’s why Beni is 1 and Moncada isn’t.
No, he didn’t outplay Moncada at every stop. Moncada may have struck out more in AA than Benintendi, but he also got on base more and hit with more power (OPS’ed nearly 40 points higher). And he did/is doing that as a potential middle infielder, which makes it all the more valuable than if he were to be doing it as a corner outfielder.
The main reason (arguably the only reason) Benintendi is number 1 right now is because of an extremely limited sample size at the major league level.
Chicago being part of east coast bias is beyond absurd.
Especially regarding the south side.
rocky7.. Do you not no what depth is? The Red Sox have Porcello, Price, Pomeranz, Wright, Sale, Erod. That is six MLB quality pitchers. The problem is some of those guys are sore, and the Sox want someone who could be next up, not an ace. That is what they are talking about. They love their rotation a lot, They don’t love the next guys up. Owens and Johnson have had huge downward slides, and KK is coming off several bad years. They are looking to add guys like those mentioned in the thread, but they want deals where they have a good chance to pitch, which is not easy to see in Boston, beside maybe some spot starts.
Benintendi is pretty close the census number 1 by pretty much all publications.
Erod would be the number 3-4 on a lot of teams in baseball. That is hard to argue. On a true contender like the Sox, Indians, Cubs etc, he is a 4-5 clearly.
Umm probably not a little shine had come off due to K rates but he was still an excellent top 5 prospect.
Benintendi was arguably better at each stop in the minors but Moncada has huge upside. The reason that Benintendi was better due to his pitch selection and K rates. Huge K rates, like the ones that Moncada has are a real problem that can get worse the higher up you go. Benintendi is just a better pure hitter at this point and most likely will be in the future.
I do believe in Moncada and think he will figure it out and be a somewhere near 22% to 25% k guy which will make him an excellent hitter with his power and speed.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Moncada came into AA red hot and cooled off after a few weeks and looked like a lost puppy and lost it down the stretch. He took himself out of games, made boneheaded plays on defense and on the base paths, starting swinging at everything, and lost any sense of gap power. He made no adjustments to the improved talent in AA and it showed. Beni on the other hand started off real cold in AA and made adjustments to the opposing pitchers and started thriving. If you wanted to go buy just pure stats last year Mauricio Dubon would have been the highest rated Sox prospect.
In the minors, it’s not just your stat line that paints the best picture of you, it’s how you got that stat line; how quickly you can make those adjustments and improve over time. Moncada failed to do that while Benitendi succeeded. Benitendi going to majors and playing very well definitely played a role in his #1 status, and Moncada going up and looking absolutely lost played a role in his drop. Beni earned that #1 spot, he wasn’t gifted it because Moncada went to a different team. Before Moncada last year the previous years #1 prospects belonged to Minnesota, Texas, DC, and Tampa. I wouldn’t exactly call those mega markets.
Never said the White Sox specifically. The town of Chicago falls into the “east coast bias” parade, just because the White Sox have been playing second fiddle in the town for the last several years doesn’t mean they aren’t part of it.
So you want Big Game James
lol Jakem you have no idea what your talking about
Feel free to elaborate
They have 2 aces, and one of them had one of the worst seasons of his career last year
A third pticher won the Cy Young. Their 4th and 5th starters made the all-star game.
Yet Price was still one of the best pitchers in the AL last year. If last season was as bad as it gets with Price I don’t think the Red Sox will mind.
Yet still won 17 games….
Even an ace will have a worse season of his career? How many players don’t have a down year? How can you even argue that one of Porcello, Sale and Price is not an ace? Two cy young awards, and 10 all star awards? Yea three aces..
Porcello played like an ace last year, but I think it’s fair to question if that’s sustainable. His BABIP was 30 points lower than any of his previous years in the league, and its not like this jump came from him limiting hard contact or striking out more batters than ever before. He’s been a consistent ~3 WAR player, so he’ll probably be pretty good, but it’s hard to imagine him consistently putting up 2016-like seasons going forward.
Sale is an ace; Price is an ace. I count 2 aces. Sure, Porcello won the Cy Young because of his win total and generally a good year, but he is not a lockdown pitcher. He would have to repeat his 2016 twice in the next three years to be put in that conversation.
So when the Phillies offer Clay Buchholz and pay 75%-100% of the salary, Top-20 prospect coming back?
They may trade Marco Hernandez for depth, but what kind of a pitcher does he bring back and who would be interested?
Not sure who would be interested but I think he is a great piece for the Sox depth on the bench. He is not likely to get much back in return really. I think John Farrel and DD are mostly looking at free agents like those listed. Not really easy to trade for a guy who hopefully would be at best a 7th starter once Price and Pomeranz are fully healthy. KK, Owens, and Johnson will probably be the guys for spot starts. Would love for the Sox to add Lewis though.
quintana for all the remaining prospects
Yep trader Dave will give the chi sox the entire farm system for Q
Great lets gut the farm system some more with more bad trades like the Pomeranz deal.
Agree
White Sox make sense as trade partner but for someone like Miguel Gonzalez for lower end top 30 prospect.
Anibal Sanchez (and a little cash) and Dixon Machado for Marco Hernandez
A little cash? Sanchez got lit up last year. They just traded way CB to clear space. That is an aweful trade for someone who would not fit in once people are healthy ( 6 starters back then him and 3-4 others competing for 6th spot.
My lord this is funny the Red Sox aren’t trading for Quintana there starting rotation of Porcello, Sale, Wright, Erod and Hendricks should be just fine until Price comes back.
Red Sox got Hendricks?? Sweet! lol
Elrod Hendricks will pepper Pesky’s Pole with potent pulling power pokes. Perfect pickup, peppy player.
Don’t be stupid, they want depth not another ace(or another white sox ace) they just want a guy who won’t cost a lot(money wise and or player wise) because they will most likely lose their spot once Pomerantz and Price return
This is where the braves will come in and ask for a huge return for Terhan, Red Sox will leak that they’re interested but never actually pull the trigger. I feel like this story happens every year.
For real, I think a Garcia wisler or Blair deal is far more likely, all are MLB ready with higher ceiling specs ready to take their MLB growing pains…
JOE KELLY !!! He’s ready, it’s his time, for real…fellas he guarantees he’s gonna win the AL Cy Young. Seems legit.
The Red Sox need an inexpensive pitcher who has an option so he can be sent down when Price and Pomeranz are healthy and recalled if there are more problems. The problem with Kendrick is they have to DFA him to send him down. If he’s pitching well, but they don’t need him, they lose him. They need a guy like Owens or Johnson but more reliable.
Junior Guerra, inexpensive for 5 years and options left
Right team, wrong guy. Brewers would need a ton back to trade their opening day starter. On the other hand, they’d be will to pay most of Matt Garza’s salary to deal him for little in return not because he can’t pitch (he was halfway decent in the 2nd half last year) but because they have other guys and Garza’s not part of the future. They’d also listen for Jimmy Nelson and Chase Anderson.
Garza doesn’t meet any of the criteria I laid out. The luxury tax kicks in at $195 million and the Red Sox project to be at $196 million right now. Garza would only be attractive if he made the minimum. Garza can’t be optioned to AAA. The Red Sox don’t need a whole season solution right now, but probably a few early season starts. They want someone who can make those, go to AAA, and come back when needed.
Well if being listed as #1 on several prospect lists doesn’t make you the best prospect then what exactly does? I agree with Erod not being a 3/4 though. He could very well be but he needs to prove it first.
I don’t think it’s wrong to call Erod a 3/4. He would be a 3/4 on most if not all 2nd division teams, and would be a clear 4 or at worst 5 on a lot of teams. It’s injury concerns that are the problem it seems.
Wow this thread was painful…. the Red Sox are not in need of a front line starter. They still should have a top 10 offense, so if they are starting four out of Sale, Price, Pom, Wright, ERod and Porcello plus one of their depth options they’ll be fine. Nobody is arguing that the Red Sox are flawless. You can pick apart any team in the AL, look at the drop off in rotation options for the Indians, Mariners, Rangers, Blue Jays, Yankees. Who is 8/9 deep? The rays? How’s their offense looking? Sheesh
The Red Sox need more pitching?
Bad move getting pomerenz. Also trading Bucholtz. Never have to much pitching
How about we pick apart other teams now to get their fan base questioning their season?
Hey Red Sox, take Pelfrey away from the Tigers please
Let’s just make some things clear. David Price was VERY good last year. Rick Porcello should still be very good next year. The way these guys get talked about drives me crazy. No, Price did not live up to $31m expectations or his own standards of what he has set for himself, but he was still very, very good. Porcello will probably not match last year’s numbers, true, but the Red Sox aren’t relying on that, they have Chris Sale. They need Porcello to be solid and eat innings, and what more would you have liked him to do last year to prove that he can do that? Would everybody be more excited about Porcello if he had worse numbers in 2016?
I just don’t get it, maybe it’s just that the majority of fans hate Boston sports or big market baseball teams?
Maybe the Padres have a veteren starter that may interest Mr. Dombrowski. 🙂
I imagine DD is going to be extremely reluctant to pick up his cell when he sees Preller is calling.
No. It’s Dombo. He’ll take the call, seal the deal and pay for the call.
Only if he’s battling an injury!
What gets me is that John Farrell is a former pitcher and former respected pitching coach, but for the life of him can’t keep his own staff healthy or on track. He uses one of his best starters as a pinch-runner, gets zero mileage out of pitchers they acquire in trades, etc. What is he doing?
Jimmy Nelson and Chase Anderson can be optioned but they’d require some quality in return. Brewers are willing to eat most of Garza’s salary, likely all but $3 million or so.. If he pitches well either Sox keep him ( he has very cheap option for 2018) or trade him. If not, release him.
Decent, optionable starting pitchers earning near minimum don’t come cheap if they are available at all.
Yeah, you knew that was going to bite them. Like 2006 after they traded Arrojo
Kopech is headed for the minors so I would not call him a pillar of the rotation.
Hell no!!.
We are done trading our top prospects.
Dumbroski already went way over the border with some of these stupid trades he has made. But what can you expect from an idiot that has a word that sounds like Dumb in his name..Lol
This guy trades a teams whole farm system doesn’t win crap then gets fired and leaves the team high and dry.
I like Sale but I think we got screwed in that deal. Moncada alone is gonna be worth more than Sale in the long run and will produce for a way longer period of time and that’s what should’ve mattered.
I just don’t think Sale puts us in W.S discussion just because the fact we lost Papi. So we lost Papi and gained Sale they offset themselves. So we’ve really gained nothing at all if you think about it.
Same thing I’ve been asking since Farrell has managed the Sox.
He got lucky in 2013 because he took over a team that was already good and had won previously. But now that he has to really put thing’s together he craps the bed.
He leaves pitchers in way to long like he did with Price countless of starts last year and it cost us home field advantage. He pinch runs our hottest pitcher at the time which doesn’t even look like a pro athlete and gets him hurt. He’s an ex-pitcher/pitching coach and doesn’t even know when a pitcher has nomore left in the tank on that day.
That’s super alarming and she shouldn’t be managing any sports team let alone the Sox.
Can’t wait till Farrell is gone. Letting Luvello go to the D-Backs was a dumb move by management. But aye what’s new.
Why is it new players come to the Sox having been good on there other teams they come to Boston and just turn to crap??
Quintana and Abreu for Benintendi and Devers.