The Cubs swung what might be the biggest deal of the summer yesterday by acquiring Jose Quintana for a prospect package headline by Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease, but they’re still interested in A’s right-hander Sonny Gray, reports Jon Morosi of MLB.com (Twitter link). Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports and MLB Network tweets the same sentiment, that the Cubs are “pursuing” Gray despite having already added Quintana.
The Cubs’ acquisition of Quintana left them without two of their top prospects, though the Cubs still have a number of appealing young players. Infielder Jeimer Candelario ranks among the game’s Top 100 prospects over at MLB.com, and ESPN’s Keith Law recently noted that pitching prospect Adbert Alzolay and Oscar De La Cruz have seen their stock rise quite a bit this season.
Chicago also has a number of young position players already at the MLB level, though there’s been considerable doubt cast on their willingness to deal players that have already played their way into prominent roles on the Major League roster. If the team is to make a serious run at Gray, however, that may well be what is required of president Theo Epstein and GM Jed Hoyer.
It’s not necessarily clear that the Cubs are aggressively chasing Gray, who is controllable via arbitration through the 2019 campaign. Rosenthal tweets that it’s not yet known how hard they’ll push to bring Gray into the fold, though their openness to the notion is interesting all the same. Acquiring both Quintana and Gray would line the Cubs up for a rotation featuring that pair, Jon Lester and Kyle Hendricks for at least the next three years, and while Gray’s price figures to rise, it should be more manageable than filling the spots of Jake Arrieta and John Lackey via free agency when that pair reaches the open market this offseason. That could be a key for the Cubs, who will see Kris Bryant, Addison Russell, Javier Baez, Hendricks, Kyle Schwarber, Carl Edwards Jr. and others reach arbitration eligibility in the next two years.
Do the Cubs move Schwarber? I know they’ve never considered it in the past, but I could see them trying to get more athletic in the outfield, he has struggled mightily, and I’m sure any AL team would love to be able to spot him into their DH spot night in and night out.
I could also see a package surrounding Almora Jr. and Candelario with a couple lower level pitching prospects thrown in.
I was also thinking Almora as the starting point. Candelario makes sense for the Cubs side since he’s blocked by Bryant, but I think the A’s might want one of their top remaining pitchers instead (De La Cruz or Alzolay). Then a couple throw-ins on top of that.
I think Bryant ends up playing LF eventually. Not as blocked as you think.
If it’s De La Cruz + throw-ins, I bet 3 or 4 other teams top that offer, easily.
Almora + De La Cruz + throw-ins. Not just De La Cruz.
And you may be right ray_derek. I don’t see it, but it very well could happen.
Yeah, just speculating. Cubs like the players that can play anywhere. If they really like Candelario, they’ll find a spot for him.
Oh, I see that now. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
I don’t know if I see the value in Almora. He hasn’t been overwhelmingly good to headline a package for probably the top available SP on the market right now. Again, I think even Almora + De La Cruz + others gets beat.
Same.
No offense to Almora or Candelario, but neither were top prospects, had solid (not great) numbers in the minors. I’m thinking it takes something more than Almora or Candelerio + De La Cruz + others.
It very well could take more than that. I’ve just read many times that the A’s really want a CF, and Almora seems like he could be a pretty good one on both sides of the ball if they’d actually let him play.
Also, Almora has been a pretty highly regarded prospect before… Pre-2013, he was 18 on the Baseball Prospectus list (in the 30’s for Baseball America and MLB.com). Pre-2014, he moved up to 18 on MLB.com’s list (36 for Baseball America and 25 for Baseball Prospectus). Pre-2015, he dropped off Baseball America’s list but was 57 (MLB.com) and 38 (Baseball Prospectus). Pre-2016 he was still off Baseball America’s list, but he was in the 80s for the other two lists. Pre-2017, he jumped back up to 64 for Baseball America, 76 for MLB.com, and 77 for Baseball Prospectus.
Sorry for such a long list – he has been bouncing around the prospect lists for quite some time now. But it definitely shows he has been a pretty highly regarded prospect for quite some time now, and he has been very highly regarded at times in the past. Also, keep in mind that despite being on these lists seemingly for the world’s longest time, he’s still only 23… I think he’d be a pretty good get for someone looking for young, major league ready talent.
Almora actually was a very highly touted player for a couple seasons but the way they’ve used him in limited action in MLB makes me think they slowed his growth. Should’ve left him in AAA and kept others as fill in pieces.
If the Brewers include Brinson in their offer to Gray it will blow the Cubs offer away. Think David Stearns is going to let Theo snap the next guy away? Think again Cub fans. Brewers have arms a lot closer to the majors they can include with Brinson than the Cubs do too and Oakland will want an arm back too.
Bryant in LF? lol
The Cubs don’t need another player there short or long term with Ben Zobrist, Ian Happ and Kyle Schwarber all profiling best defensively at the position.
Ben Zobrist isn’t getting any younger and should give way to Javier Baez sooner rather than later at 2B. Happ can’t play second base proficiently at the MLB level and Albert Almora should be the Cubs core CF going forward. Schwarber can only play a corner OF position or 1B in the N.L. His outfield defense would be average at best and clearly the Cubs don’t need another left-handed hitting first baseman.
Bryant has already put to rest the doubters who claimed he was too tall to play 3B. If he needs to move to another position at some point later in his career it would be 1B where he could be a GG candidate with his height and athleticism and when Anthony Rizzo is no longer a Cub.
The other best option for Bryant might be CF where he prefers to play in the outfield provided Almora doesn’t pan out. Even that would be a stop-gap for the Cubs who might prefer to find their future leadoff man at the position although I would love to see Almora given first crack at the role as soon as next season. Imo, Almora would have been just fine splitting CF AND the leadoff role in 2017 with Jon Jay but “Genius” Joe Maddon had a batter idea with Schwarber hitting #1 to begin the season. 🙁
Yes. The Brewers and Astros have both been strongly linked to Sonny Gray and have the prospect currency to outbid the Cubs.
The Brewers also employ Gray’s former mentor at Vanderbilt as their pitching coach which could help influence David Stearns into a deal with Billy Beane. All things being equal, one would think that the A’s might prefer to trade Gray out of the League and the Division.
Candelario and Russell
I agree russell is expendable of all the guys on big league roster he would be my choice to go
Is anyone going to even consider trading for Russell with no answers being given regarding his DV accusation?
Short answer? Absolutely.
His performance so far this year will hinder his trade value more than the DV accusation.
Russell and Baez will stay. Having two big league shortstops at their ages and with Baez versatility to play elsewhere when Russell is in the lineup, including gold glove caliber second base, I don’t see the Cubs breaking that up. If one or the other is traded, then the remaining one goes down, who plays shortstop?….and not just shortstop but who do they find who plays with the combination of offense and defense brought by both of these guys? Baez versatility allows a ton of roster flexibility. Tying him up at SS completely changes that dynamic…as does trading him
Almora hits around .270 with outstanding defense. He needs to stay. Schwarber needs to go DH. And the Cubs can get another pitcher.
Actually, his defense hasn’t been so good this season for some reason. He was more of a take-charge CF in the minors but up here he hasn’t been. His defense is overrated at this point.
Albert Almora was always the man in CF in the minors. Veteran Jon Jay rightfully cut into Almora’s playing earlier this season as his left-handed hitting platoon partner to help ease the youngster into his first full MLB season.
Then “Genius” Joe Maddon continued to play Almora as infrequently as possible as the season wore on despite some solid offensive production from both himself and Jay earlier this season, even preferring an inexperienced Ian Happ there recently. Almora is a clear future Gold Glove candidate. It would be a shame for the Cubs to waste that opportunity by reducing his playing time or trading him
It’s not so easy for a player like Almora to “take-charge” when his a$$ is on the bench most of the time.
Who plays center then? Almora is the cubs 2nd best defensive player. If maddon didn’t ruin him by playing jon jay more he would be at least considered for a gold glove.
Schwarber, candelario, and two mid level prospects for sonny Gray and Sean Doolittle.
They need as well as they worked out cubs need to acquire more.than these 4 for 1 deals. Even though in reality it’s only been 2 for 1 for Chapman and 2 for 1 for Q.
The last thing the A’s need is a DH/COF type.
Almora has a negative defensive WAR and UZR this year. I don’t think he’s in any Gold Glove conversations.
Schwarber is hitting .178 and Canderlario isn’t in any mid-season top 100 lists (his minor league career OPS is under .800, not overly impressive).
I can’t imagine any trade for Gray not starting and ending with either Happ and/or Baez involved.
Baez and Happ ain’t going anywhere anytime soon. They just traded Jimenez Happ was close behind him for their top prospects. He strikes out a lot but if they trade Schwarber he’ll be the everyday LFer. No reason to trade Happ or Baez.
Gray to injury prone to give up to much talent
Right, there’s no reason to trade Happ or Baez and that’s precisely why the Cubs aren’t getting Gray.
Again, his defense is reputation only. He hasn’t been good this season. In any case, I would rate Heyward, Russell, Baez & Rizzo ahead of Almora defensively. Happ can play center, though he’s better suited for 2B or a corner OF position.
But perhaps they up the ante for the Brewers to pay?
Also, I don’t feel Schwarber has the trade value fans would like to believe he has. He could be in a trade, but his value is lower now, and at this point I’m thinking the Cubs keep him, and hope he has a solid 2nd half. Could be an off season trade or 2018 if he improves his stock.
In the offseason, I thought the Cubs and Sox should swap Q for a deal centered around Schwarber. Sox needed a bat and Cubs needed pitching. I still expect him to go to an AL team, but he needs to rebuild value after a down year and very little track record.
Yes – I think it will be Schwarber and Candelario with a pitcher thrown in. I don’t think any other team would top that offer and it works for both teams.
LMFAO they have depleted their minor league system, and maybe just MAYBE teams aren’t as keen on Schwarber and his .170 avg as the Cubs are. After the Pineda injury, Sonny Grays stock just skyrocketed. But good luck cubby homers
How in the world does the Pineda injury affect grays stock? Pineda was never on the trading block
for one, now the yankees have a more pressing need.
Because the yanks are even more likely to trade for a starter driving his price up more…
Yanks have already said they aren’t in the market for trades this year.
Yes tharrie read comments above. Along with only a handful of FA SP this offseason, that list just got thinner now that Pineda is out. Do your homework
It doesn’t affect his market at all. One injury doesn’t tilt his market. Yankees won’t trade for him regardless. They’ll go for the derek holland/ Jason hammel type. No blue chip prospects going the other way
Yeah, because the Yankees NEVER try to make a splash at the trade deadline. I’m sure the Yankee fans will just accept whatever they do and quietly applaud.
Anybody paying attention to what the Yankees are trying to do? There will come a time where the Yankees will give up big time prospects to add to the major league roster but now is not that time. They never expected this would be their year. Because some guys have broke out faster than expected they are close. But they have just been decimated by injury as of late. Adding Gray doesn’t save this season. The only reason Yankees might be interested is because he’s controlled beyond 2017. However he’s more valuable to a team that’s in contention this year. The Yankees are going to be awesome but don’t let the standings fool you they aren’t there yet. The Red Sox are better than their record and a few big pieces just went down. They aren’t replacing Pineda with anyone exciting
Anyone who thinks Grays price just went way up because of Pineda isn’t paying attention. I bet the Yankees fans are looking at what their approach has made of their future and applauding. The time to strike hasn’t come but it will
Great comment, obviously tuned in to exactly what is coming from Cashman and the organization, in addition to all the Yankee fan blogs.
Couldn’t have said it better.
the cubs definitely have the fire power to get gray… they are loaded with young talent at the big league level
Doubt it. I don’t see them throwing Candelario and de la Cruz at the A’s to get Gray (and am not sure that would be enough anyway). As for big league talent, the A’s will likely want prospects, not guys heading for arbitration in a year or two. They’re a small market team and definitely spend like one.
The major league roster is filled with young players, what’s the need for a ton of prospects who are blocked on the major league roster? Seriously people act like the Cubs are giving away hof players when in fact they are keeping the World Series core together and just adding quality starters. Don’t get it when everyone freaks out and doesn’t trust theos plan.
What people are saying is they should’ve had the talent this year to not have to sell the farm and make these rash moves. The fact that Theo feels the need to make these deals shows how underwhelming that “core” has been. Lackey, Lester, Hendricks all haven’t been as good as they were last year. Zobrist, Russell and Schwaber have been trash and Bryant has been nowhere close the the MVP caliber player he was last year. Not to mention this offseason the Cubs have a ton of contracts to decide on.
As a Brewers fan I love knowing the Cubs only have 1-2 years left of being an elite team. Exactly why Theo is in buy mode. He knows it. Unless they buy championships in Free Agency of course.
“I” love knowing Milwaukee will never be able to resign players because their owner is cheap and they are a small market team. They also don’t have enough balls to trade their prospects they hold so dearly to their hearts for MLB talent. I love how jealous Brewer fans will continue to state Theo is clueless. I love how they will always be 3rd fiddle to the Cubs and Cardinals in the Central. Cross your fingers and hope your prospects pan out, because that’s all you have. Congrats on the over achieving 1st half though.
Lol. Good luck with that Brewer fan.
I will also love listening to Brewer fans whine when the Cubs sign Bryce Harper in 2019.
I plan on laughing hysterically at whoever gives Harper a half a billion dollars
It inevitable, so get ready.
I love knowing that Cubs fan are just as bitter as ever, even after winning a World Series.
lol no way will they sign Harper…they have to pay Rizzo and Bryant…not to mention many other players…Harper will be a Yankee
I love people on boards thinking they’re smarter than MLB GMs
Kind of like the guy insisting those same GMs are FOR SURE going to sign a player? Hmm…
Dynasty!
Facts:
– Since the start of Mark “Cheap” Attanasio’s tenure as owner of the Brewers, they have a better winning percentage than the Cubs.
– In that period, they have also dealt countless top prospects for rentals, or a couple years of control for top flight talent to make a run at the postseason, ie. CC Sabathia, Zack Greinke
– One World Series title is enough for Cubs fans to forget that their team is literally best known for futility!
Dynasty!
They have at least 7 or 8 years of their elite team. Brewers are a fluke. Unless you were a fan of the 80s brewers no one actually is a brewers fan.
It isn’t the fact that he’s cheap. The Milwaukee Brewers are the smallest media market in all of baseball so for them to compete financially with the Cubs is never gonna happen. Don’t talk stupid when you say the Brewers owner is cheap. Know the facts!!!
Don’t want him don’t need him. He doesn’t fit with the cubs. There’s literally no way to make it work.
Right! Like the Bears! Except no fluke. Just a dumpster fire.
ray_derek –
The Brewers had higher payrolls than the Cubs as recently as 2012 & 2014. Also traded top prospects for CC & Grienke. Let me guess you became a baseball fan last year and jumped on the Cubs bandwagon?
All cub fans think they are now experts at the game now. They also think Theo is the greatest gm of all time. And joe madden batting the pitcher 8th is smart. In reality it was a fluke they won and most likely another 100 years before they do it again. Worst franchise in the history of sports.
Troll…
The Disastros don’t even play real baseball any more. Beyond that, your delusion of bitterness is cute, and quite telling.
True. But the lower minors need to be stocked. Also you need 6th and 7th starters in AAA and a few OF and INF there as well.
^this is church
Heard a radio caller in my area talking about Schwarber make an interesting point: Schwarber had more value last year with a busted knee than he does this year with a .170 average.
I’m not sure I 100% agree, but I certainly can see their point. The Cubs may have missed their chance to capitalize on Schwarber.
Schwarber is 24 years old. They’ve hardly missed their chance. I’ll agree his value is down, but as long as he improves his value is going to go up again. So I guess the question is if he’s really this year’s version, or the 2015 version long term.
That’s why I said I’m not sure I 100% agree. Guys have bad years. It’s a part of baseball. I think the point is more or less that Schwarber doesn’t have this incredible value every Cubs fan seems to think he has right now.
People complained nonstop because of Jason Heywards bad year and wanted him traded right away. It happens. Schwarber had zero hits before blowing out his knee. Coming back from an injury like that is nothing short of miraculous. DRose needs to give Schwarber a call and ask advise on his rehab.
“Hey D-Rose. It’s Kyle. You should think about playing a sport where you dont have to run or jump more than a couple times a game. You really don’t even have to be in good of shape. You’re welcome.”
That wasn’t my point. The point is DRose could’ve comeback from the same injury but he was lazy. Kyle came back 6 months ahead of schedule. Derrick Rose could learn something from him in terms of rehabbing.
With Happ up and Zobrist under contract-
The cubs could easily move Baez or Happ, Schwarber, Candelario, and Alzolay in a Gray deal.
Thats 4.5 years of Baez or Happ, 4.5 of Schwarber, top 100 in Candelario, and a rising pitcher in alzolay.
Thats 4 guys, 3 MLB ready, for Gray. Cubs can swing a deal but will have to involve a guy at the ML level.
Sonny is not as valuable as Q.
According to who? Both are pitching like a #3 this year and have a history of success with Gray actually being an ace before injury. Gray is making less than Q and is a year younger.
He does come with 1 less year of team control, but hes making less than half what Q is this year and probably next year. And probably up to 3/4 in his final year.
According to doctors
It’s the one less year of control for Gray with Q’s effectiveness and durability cancelling out Gray’s ace year.
Q is much more valuable than gray cmon now
Hahaha
Hahaha
Cmon serious?
Please list that offer again for Gray!
Lol
Have you learned what OR means and what 3 of the 4 means yet LOL? Still cant believe you dont know what those mean HAHA.
For real though, yankees arent getting anything this year at the deadline. Enjoy.
OR- means a choice is involved where you must pick between the objects presented- you cant have them all.
3 of the 4- means any 3 of the 4 listed. For this to occur there must be 4 choices and you can pick any 3 of the 4.
BWAHAHA seriously, your comments are gold man. Something a 3rd grader understands you manage to f up worse than your life.
Please refer to him as World Series Champion Kyle Schwarber. They have depleted their minor league system because they are in the Majors. It sounds like you are a minor league baseball fan. Congrats on your AAA Sox team. Sounds like they will be champs for several years. Who cares if Cubs have nobody left in minors if bryant rizzo contreras Baez schwarber almora Russell Heyward are playing for next 10-15 years. Who was Derek jeters triple a replacement or pete rose or johnny bench during their prime? Mike trouts replacement isn’t coming up anytime soon.
I always enjoy the hot takes from fans fresh off a WS victory, but Cubs fans absolutely take the cake.
Then you’ll love us when they win 2 more in the next 5 years.
Cool, so you’ll have as many as the Giants in a similar span.
But of course, it’s so much specialer.
Sure they will. They aren’t even a .500 ball club this year and you have them winning 2 more World Series. Hey how did all of those cub all stars do this year anyway?
Oh please tell me you aren’t comparing any current player on the Cubs with the 4 HOFers you just mentioned. Please don’t forget that Hayward(for his contact) has been terrible. Zobrist, Schwarber and Russell have been trash this year. Plus if you think you will be able to pay Rizzo/Bryant/Contreras/Baez on top of the money you’re paying out for Lester/Heyward and possibly Arietta if you resign him you’re crazy
Stick with the Packers. They are winners.
Also, I’ll refer to him as “World Series Champion Kyle Schwarber” when you refer to Jean Machi as “World Series Champion Jean Machi” and overlook his terrible flaws because he has a ring. Deal?
You just did. I’ve never typed his name down but fair enough. World Series champion Jean Machi’s World Series e.r.a was 8.10.
But he was a World Series Champion, so we forget all of his flaws.
*Insert emotionally-driven schoolyard SoxVCubs comment here* – Chitown311
Omg you are clueless chitown311.
Almora, De La Cruz and Candelario would be a good package
schwarber and carl edwards II for sonny grey
Only way the A’s want Schwarber if they trade Krush davis first.
A’s won’t trade Davis either
Cubs won’t deal Edwards
“When the pair reaches the open market this weekend.”???
Weekend. Offseason. All the same, right? 🙂
Ha, thanks. Tons of news today and I had a clear brain meltdown in trying to get everything on the site there. Appreciate that.
They better hope billy bean likes Schwarber
He loves playing strict DH’s in the field like Healy and Khris Davis so, yeah probably.
One would hope he’s targeting Happ and Almora though.
I would be very happy with schwarber as an A’s fan but I completely agree about almora and Happ.
No way no how do the Cubs get Gray without giving up Happ and Schwarber.
That was a pretty good joke my man.
Just another fan…. why would your A’s trade Sonny Gray for Propsects??
A’s have a ton of young controllable starters already in graveman manaea Cotton Hahn Blackburn Puk etc.
There was a report last weekend that said Theo made Russell, Baez, Happ, Schwarber, Almora, Contreras available in trades (though, Contreras isn’t going anywhere). One of those guys could be the center piece.
A’s need OFs, if Happ and Almora are in the package then Sonny’s headed to Chi.
both? probably not. Happ is probably untouchable at this point
Spot on Happ going nowhere
I really don’t think Happ is untouchable. He’s had a great start, but the league will adjust and just like every young player, he will struggle until he adjusts back.
Source of this report?
As cards fan, I would love this. They have depleted their farm and are working on draining it further. Granted they are better team with Q, and better yet if they get Gray, their window is closing by the minute. Don’t blame them for going all in this year, but it was always expected for them to be good. Good luck restocking farm without tanking and getting draft picks and prospects. The 2020 and beyond national league central welcomes these moves. Enjoy it while you can cubbies, you are abandoning what got you here in first place and window is shrinking. This is all IF Q and gray would pan out and not get hurt. We’ll see.
Are the Cubs not drafting players for the next 4 years?? They can rebuild farm system and their core will still be in their late 20’s in 2020. Cards have an aging team and no depth. The 2020 nl central thanks you!
Lol the cardinals don’t have depth lol really laughing hard right now…well at the beginning of the year the cardinals had a better farm than the Cubs…ranked around 11…that was without Sierra. Wing considered…the cardinals are stacked in the minors and way better off than the Cubs…know what your talking about before you talk cubbie fan
Congratulations, St. Louis Cards Farm system champions.
Also 11 World Series champions…the future is bright for the cardinals…how’s your team doing?
Average age of Cubs roster, DL guys included: 28.3. Cardinals: 27.8.
You’re an idiot. Badge 125 is right. Superstars are born everyday throughout the entire draft not just the first round. They aren’t giving up and picks by making these trades. Cubs are still really young. Cardinals are really old and on the downhill slide. Haha
Man why you calling people names…you obviously don’t know what your talking about…please explain how the cardinals are really old? Let’s see Molina, yes but still better than most catchers including the Cubs…he was an all star…again…and wainwright…carp maybe? Fowler? The rest are young and the cardinals have one of the best farms in the game…it’s actually a great mixture of young and veterans
Yeah tied with the all mighty cubs right now. Cub fans have absolutely no clue.
Cubs farm system is incredibly deep farm system still. Especially in the lower minors.
Here comes the crazy card fans now!Listen the Cubs will be good for next 5 years plus. They will have players to deal to get the farm back up and you can literally turn your farm system around in a few years now.
Saying that I would worry if I’m the cardinals because your going to watch the young cubby bears who mostly came up from system grow together and be dominant for a long time while your cardinals major league team is weak and farm is good but not great. Don’t rain on people’s parades with your negativity.
Lately between bitter white Sox fans and padre fans now Oakland and St Louis there’s allot of envy. I read some seriously stupid comments on here once Pineda injury was announced as if other teams fans reveled in the bad news. It’s sad. The guy was in his walk year and his career is in jeopardy but the only think Oakland and white Sox fans can say is negative crap towards the team. If your happy with an injury, fine, just don’t be obvious and admit it.
Lol
Sad sack of bitter fan boys up in here.
You say the cardinals Mlb team is weak but yet they are tied with the Cubs…lol that is envy or just being oblivious to the standings…also the cardinals farm was good at the beginning of the year but is now great…minor league.com had the cardinals farm ranked 8 while most around 11-13…but they said that they thought is was way undervalued…and they were right…the cardinals farm is stacked with pitching and position players…just look how they brought up Sierra from A ball and he did great while up…flaherty should easily join the other 4 prospects that were in the top 100 and many more…your right about the Cubs being able to turn over their roster and build up their farm but don’t act like the cardinals don’t know what they are doing…plus you have p consider the Cubs won’t be getting any high draft picks like they did while they tanked
Cubs might have a young core and the Cardinals might have depth but neither compares to the Dodgers in the long haul……..built to win for years to come. Harper come on down……..Machado come on down
You do understand the farm is depleted because they are up succeeding in majors? For next 10 years they are going to be very good . Theo said all along when needed young prospects will go away for young controllable pitching. Quintana is cheap so free agency maybe darvish? Hendricks Lester Quintana gray and darvish not shabby. Cards lose Lynn waino is over the hill, wacha sucks, Reyes is tommy John victim. Stuck with fowler and his bad contract . Carpenter can’t hit, yadi contract is a killer. Cards are looking to spend what 500,000 in free agency next year? Let the big boys play in the deep end while cards play in shallow end of pool
Lol wow…let’s see the Cubs farm is depleted because they are succeeding in the Majors…succeeding? It doesn’t seem like they are doing that this year. The next 10 years they will be good…you do understand that you only control those players for 6 years right? Not to mention that the Cubs will be paying high Arbitration salaries.
Ok so wainwright is getting old…so is Lester. Wacha does not suck and struggles at times but I think he would do great in the bullpen. But all that doesn’t matter considering Reyes will be back next year…oh yea weaver and Flaherty are plowing through hitters in AAA ball. So Martinez, Reyes, Weaver, Flaherty, Leake. Not to mention the Cards have great pitching in AA ball coming up also…yes sir they are stacked. They also are stacked well with position players…research Bader, Sierra, and Kelly. Those boys you think should be in the shallow end are tied with those Cubbie boys in the NL central…so I’m not sure what you’re getting at lol…not to mention the Cardinals just got a big TV contract so I’m sure they will spend more than you project…and you want to talk about bad contracts…Heyward lol….good luck bud
Outside of Bryant, Edwards and Happ and contreas what young guys are really playing well for the Cubs? Carpenter can’t hit? He has had a down year but his obp is .381 and he’s hit better than every Cub outside of Rizzo and Bryant
Theo is dumb. He should have got fulmer for
Ian happ
Eloy jimenez
Schwarber or baez
And albertos
Tigers could have thrown in jose Iglesias as well.
One pitcher for 3-4 position MLB players… way to much!
Youre getting an ACE for 5 years on the cheap. Its not too much at all
Happ and Baez are too valuable to package together
What is so great about Baez? Weak hitter with a .745 OPS. Iglesias can beat that, easily
Then why doesn’t he? He’s only topped that once… in 2013.. for only 63 games.
Lol yah, Theo is the dumb one…
You’re the kind of fan that uses ESPN’s trade machine to load your favorite NBA team with superstars just because the salaries match, aren’t you? Fulmer’s good, but he’s not the second coming of Randy Johnson and might not even pan out to be Verlander.
Jose Iglesias over Russell or Baez is flat out dumb. Fulmer isnt worth half that package.
I know it was just misworded, but i got a kick out of “this weekend”.
Cubs will be fine without the players they trade honestly could sell probably two off their mlb squad and still have depth, look at the dodgers who for years just bought depth, now they have the prospects, and they haven’t stopped winning, pretty remarkable
I think Cubs getting Gray is unlikely, but think about a rotation of Lester, Quintana, Gray, Hendricks, Arrieta.
This year, that’s an ERA of 4.27, 1.29 WHIP, a 3.13 BB/9, and 8.85 K/9.
That’s a middle of the pack rotation.
Could be a smokescreen by Cubs brass to drive up the price for Gray that front running Brewers would have to pony up.
It also could be a smoke screen to show teams like the Rangers (Darvish & Hamels) that there are other options for pitching left. No links to either the Cubs and Rangers but you have to assume that conversations are taking place with contenders and Texas
If this were to happen this would be par for the course. Billy Beane trading a guy and not getting back nearly what people would think. They just gave up thief best bullets
For Quintana, the A’s would be getting the left overs.
sonny gray is washed up
Though it’s a long shot, the thing about guys like Theo and Billy is that they think beyond the consensus “top prospects.” They know how to scout a farm system for hidden gems that you didn’t even know you had.
Without a doubt. Cubs farm is far from depleted as well, I love those comments.
It’s depleted. They have some valid pieces, but quite a few less than before.
I say this as a guy that listens to Cubs minor league games, mostly.
Quite less? Like two players? Yes, top prospects but depleting the farm? Quit joking please
The Cubs farm is officially depleted…whatever you are taking please share…they have one player in the top 100 and then nothing…what a bunch of low A players…yea let me trade away proven talent for Low A players lol Cubs fans crack me up
It’s depleted, but not barren.
When the Sox added Flete and Rose, they released two of their own players from the same level Therefore, the Sox valued two guys most on this board entirely dismiss, than two guys they were paying.
The Cubs still have some talent, but a lot less at the top end than before.
They have 6 everyday players that are 27 or younger with 4+ years of team control left. Exactly what type of farm system should they need right now?
Not sure why people are bashing the Cubs for these moves/attempted moves.
The one hope for NL Central fans in the near term was that the Cubs pitching would get old and the free agent market wouldn’t have suitable replacements.
If they can put out a rotation with Lester, Gray, Quintana for the next few years with that young lineup, they have ZERO need for prospects…and plenty of time to restock.
I wouldn’t be at all shocked to see them find a way to pull this off.
“If they can put out a rotation with Lester, Gray, Quintana for the next few years with that young lineup, they have ZERO need for prospects…and plenty of time to restock.”
Nice hot take. Because you know, players never get hurt, decline rapidly, or just become terrible over night…
Hot take, ever hear of free agency and an owner with very deep pockets?
That they don’t need a farm system because they have three starting pitchers who are good is a major hot take.
And yes, the Cubs have deep pockets. So do the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Phillies, Tigers, and a multitude of other teams. Most of those teams also have farm systems to rely on.
But prospects never get hurt or decline?
Cubs version #1: Lester, Gray, Quintana heading the rotation with fewer prospects.
Cubs version #2: Lester and a few old and overpaid free agent pitchers heading the rotation with more prospects.
Which team would you want to put on the field?
Prospects get hurt and decline, so do MLB players. The issue is most fans think having a farm system is the end all, be all. Others think having nothing but MLB depth is it.
The reality is, you want a good mixture of both. Having enough depth for those prospects who get hurt or don’t develop into their projection, but also having depth for when MLB guys get hurt, you don’t have to rely on bad players to fill a spot for a month or two.
The notion that they don’t need prospects because they have three players is absurd. The Cubs need them and will find times where they will regret trading that depth.
Not because they “have three players” but because they’d have all the key roles filled and could fill the minor holes with free agents or salary dump trades.
I’ll ask again…which version of the Cubs would you want to put on the field?
Would you feel more comfortable with Version #1 where all of the key roles are filled, but the farm is depleted?
Or Version #2 where key roles are filled with questionable players but you have more left on the farm?
We’re obviously arguing two different things. And I’ll address your question, but my initial comment was the idea that the Cubs have “ZERO need for prospects” is as laughable as it gets. Even if for nothing other than having trade pieces should they find themselves in a bind, the notion that zero prospects are needed is farcical.
As for the false dichotomy you’ve created (and the refusal to point out any flaws in your option of choice), both have challenges.
Version #1 might have all the roles filled. But what happens if you have 2 or 3 significant injuries and need to make a trade for a top rental? No team is 100% set, and no team is 100% healthy. Again, even if the farm is only there to trade from, you need it.
Version #2 has the challenge you’ve already cited. But I hesitate to say they are “questionable.” Is Eric Hosmer any more questionable than, say, Brandon Belt? If the Yankees were looking for a 1B, they could sell the farm for Belt, or just wait, keep their guys, and acquire Hosmer via FA, and they signed a similar player with no hit to their farm system. Now, should a player go down, they can call up a prospect, or trade him for an upgrade should they need to.
Long story short, both have their advantages.
Sox wanted Kris bryant . We weren’t getting sale
Sox probably asked for Bryant in like 2015 when all the Chris sale trade rumors first started. I highly doubt they were asking for Bryant in December when the sale trade actually went down
Belt and Hosmer are far from similar players. Belt is a 270-280 ish hitter with a 350-400 OBP every year. Hosmer is a 260-270 average player with a 310-330 OBP every year. Plus belt is on pace for 30 homers at at&t park with gold glove defense. Hosmer has atrocious defense. Belt>>>hosmer
As a Giants fan, I actually agree, Gobby.
My point was: Is a team better off keeping it’s farm in tact and signing a [somewhat] similar player in the offseason, or trading it all away for a controllable, but likely equally expensive player?
Hosmer will likely sign a deal near or above what Belt’s extension was. The point is, teams can hold on to their pieces and sign [somewhat] similar players later on, rather than giving up the pieces for an upgrade now.
Besides, is Gray better than most of the impending FAs that the Cubs want to deplete what’s left of their farm system for?
Yeah if I was themcubs honestly, I’d stand pat for now, Andy go after a guy like Darvish in the offseason. Much better than Gray, and he won’t cost any prospects.
Most teams have a 5 year window of winning championship with their core. Last year trading for a world series with chapman is a smart move even if the other players become all stars. Nobody remembers who came in second.
It was the Indians.
….ZERO need for prospects….
If Schwarber/Russell/Almora/Zobrist remember how to play really good baseball. Or avoid injuries.
Depth could come in handy. Saying the Cubs have ZERO need for anything seems a bit absolutist.
My guess
Cubs get Gray and a reliever
A’s get Candelario, Clifton, Albertos, Zagunis.
By the way, Oscar De La Cruz in injured. And nobody outside “the circle” know what the injury is.
It won’t be De La Cruz. It might well be Clifton/Alzolay/Hatch
That offer gets beat by 3-4 teams who need pitching more.
Which offers from which teams?
I’m trying to learn.
The Yankees & Astros for sure could and probably would top those offers. I bet even the Brewers put up a better package than that.
And since you aren’t putting any specific potential packages down, it kind of pukes the effectiveness of putting down offers.
I’m not sure the Brewers want to fire off their better prospects.
The Yankees could offer Rutherford and Adams.
Astros: Tucker & Joe Musgrove
Brewers: Josh Hader & Isan Diaz
Those hypothetical packages (because this is all hypothetical at this point) would all be better starts than what was suggested.
Much better. You posted possibles. To be assessed later.
It’s not a question of which team can put up a better offer, it’s a question of which team is willing to do so. Each team will not only put a value on a player, but will prioritize their needs. Not every team will value Gray equally. Will the Yankees be willing to pay what you think it would take to acquire him, when they also need help at 1B and 3B?
Shrug
lol he told you rayrayner…the cardinals could put up a way better package then the Cubs…sorry cubbie fans but it would take major league talent to at Gray…you have nobody left in your system that teams would even consider…wishful thinking
Then why don’t they. If Q didn’t take major league-ready talent, neither will Gray. Beane loves to trade. If he gets the right mix of players, he will take the deal
The cardinals don’t need pitching but other teams do…sorry but this is nothing but wishful thinking for the Cubs…unless they give up from the big club
I’ll take that deal. Gray and Doolittle for that package is very fair.
Bill would love to have Addison Russell back in a second. Just has to check out that ugly divorce allegations first
Ugghh what an awful trade. They could have got david price but chose jeff samardjzia instead.
Russell doesn’t fix any problems for the A’s right now. They need to trade Jed to make room for Barretto, trade Alonzo to put Healy at 1st and Khris Davis at DH and trading Sonny needs to bring in some OF help.
Sure Russell fixes a lot of problems. He becomes the A’s SS for the next several years. Then either Barreto or Semien can move to CF.
How bout this… Cubs trade Arrieta to the Dodgers for some prospects headlined by Willie Calhoun. They turn around and take Addison Russell, Willie Calhoun, Candelario, Victor Caratini and probably De La Cruz and send them to Detroit for Fulmer and Avila. I’d much rather them do that then go after Gray. I suspect they will make a trade for Avila either way though
Dodgers would never want Jake Arrieta and he is not even worth a top 100 prospect period
I don’t see the Dodgers flipping Calhoun for four months of Arrieta. But it’d be cool from a Cubs perspective.
De La Cruz is still hurt. And people keep using him as “the thing”. Use Hatch/Clifton/Alzolay instead. They are healthy and pitching.
No, hell no. Russell is having an off year. He’s easily top 10 in SS in baseball. He has 95 rbi last year. Didnt didn’t even play the whole year. And he’s top 10 thats with Baez on the team too. Baez a natural SS is better defensively than Russell. It was highway robbery for the cubs to get him for #4 start at best in Samardzija.
Theo didn’t get where he was by luck or being stupid. If he really wants Gray it will happen. People forget him and Beane are good friends.
I don’t think any rational people are calling Theo lucky or stupid. I think they are simply pointing out that a trade for Sonny Gray doesn’t seem logical unless he’s a) willing to give up the entirety of his top farm talent or b) deal from the MLB roster to acquire him.
Neither of those seem like smart ideas.
Sorry don’t know why everything posting twice
If the Cubs were able to pull this off then they look really good for the rest of the season and could be big contenders. But looking after 2017 the have Arrieta, Davis, and Lackey and Jay as free Agents, and they have a lot of contracts to manage. And let’s not forget that they have a smaller farm system but I will say it might not be the biggest impact but they also have guys like Zobrist, Russel, and Schwarber who are playing like trash this year and an inconsistent rotation. Now those are just some possible problems not saying the Cubs can’t over come these things, just saying that’s what it looks like from now
I’l admit the Quintana signing was def a great deal for Cubs now and especially after next year. Their pitching will still be lacking, they should have outbid the Red Sox for Sale if they were going to drain their system.
That is exactly what i said. They migh drain their farm system for 2 pitchers with an ERA above 4.00 when they could have just got sale
I’m curious, what package could they have sent to the White Sox for Sale? I have a hard time seeing anything including Moncada be bested.
Same package as Q but add pieces from what they want to give up for gray. The upside of moncada vs eloy is not a monumental difference
They were never going to get Sale. I read an interview yesterday where Theo said Hahn told him in the offseason that they weren’t getting Sale without sending Bryant to the South Side. Despite what both teams have said about being willing to trade with each other (rightfully so), Jerry would’ve never agreed to send Sale to the Cubs unless they offered something ridiculously over the top.
That is kind of crazy on the white sox part but does make the situation understandable
I absolutely love how cards and white sox fans think this is going to hurt their long term future. They have their whole lineup locked down or have MLB ready replacements and are a large market team. They’ll also have a controllable rotation of gray, Quintana, Lester and Hendricks. They can afford to get rid of prospects for MLB players, you’re biased against them if you fail to see that.
It’s either wishful thinking or prospect hounding.
As a guy whose team needs the Cubs to get worse, not better…I’d much rather they have kept their prospects while their rotation fell apart.
In general i dont think they have enough pitching in the future. Position players they are set but as of right now they only have 1 guys in quintanna who wont decline in the next few years. Trading the farm for more SP makes sense
As a Sox fan, I’m thrilled with the trade. I hoped that if Q was dealt to the Cubs, they’d get Eloy. Getting Cease as well is a nice bonus. I don’t expect the White Sox to be relevant again until at least 2019 and more likely 2020 or 2021. That’s ok, I can wait.
I’m also happy as a Cubs fan, as this boosts their chances of getting back to the playoffs. And if that doesn’t happen this year, they have 3 more tries before he becomes a FA. Everybody wins.
They’re great now, yes. And young on MLB roster, yes. But they have no farm system now and no way to restock it like they did before because the way they got here was by drafting top 3 for 5 years and trading all veteran pieces for prospects. Exactly what the white sox are doing. When guys start becoming free agents then what? Surely they won’t keep everyone. Their great in near future, yes. But longer term not looking so great right now.
Chicago had to do something but another Ring is what they want
Billy is asking way too much to Sonny Gray… he wants Baez, Happ, Schwarber and the two other prospects …
Well the cubs could make one more splash with just their farm
If the cubs get sonny gray , they can say bye bye to Arrieta
in November.
The Cubs just traded Jimenez (60 FV), Cease ((55) and two 40 prospects to get Quintana. A package for Gray is going to be more along the lines of two 55 prospects and a 45. The Cubs could offer De La Cruz (55 FV), Candelario (50/55) and Zagunis (50) as the primary package, then throw In a 45 Sp/RP in the upper minors like Zastrynzy or Underwood to wrap up the package. They get 2 MLB ready position prospects (Candelario and Zagunis) and a high upside SP prospect in De La Cruz. Not saying this is a slam dunk for Oakland, but it is a fair return for Gray and gives Oakland some higher floor prospects which they seem to like.
I don’t recall what Happ is, but he could be a piece too
The A’s have absolutely no need for Candelario: loads of 1B/DH prospects and Matt Chapman manning 3B (with a plusplus glove and the strongest infield arm in the minors as of the start of the season).
Candelario – Hit: 55 | Power: 50 | Run: 40 | Arm: 55 | Field: 50 | Overall: 55
Chapman – Hit: 45 | Power: 60 | Run: 40 | Arm: 75 | Field: 70 | Overall: 55
grey is worth less
If the As traded him 2-3 years ago they would have gotten way more.
Not worthless but worth less now
Obviously, yes. But if he strings together a couple more quality starts, his value is only going to go up. A’s should get two top 100 prospects for Gray.
Tell you right now, if cubs trade schwarber, it will not be for Sonny gray. They will get a for sure thing if they trade schwarber.. they’ll get someone like archer, gray is just not a for sure thing. He’s not even doing great this year. If I were the Cubs I would try to trade arrieta and get a good prospect and flip the prospect with a couple of our own and get archer, or try for paxson from Seattle..
Archer would cost the Cubs Haps + Schwarber + more.
You way over value Schwarber. Beane would laugh and hang up on Theo if Schwarber was the centerpiece for Gray. Try Russell for Gray.
Russell was traded for Samardzija. What makes you think Gray is worse than Samardzija. Even with all his injuries Gray is far better than Shark. It’s not even close. As bad as Jason Hammels as been this year evem he’s better than samardzija.
I mean, who could they move that isn’t from their MLB roster to get a quality, controlled arm?
They have some upside talent down on the farm, but it’s far away and not top 100 level talent yet. The A’s will want quality prospects that are closer for someone like Gray.
Good for the Cubs for their moves, but I think their best bet is to attempt to lure some people in free agency or maybe by the off season some of their prospects rise in ranks to help.
I think they’ll get Darvish or Otani (I’d rather have Otani they have the money to offer him a Kershaw contract. If they really wanted too. Darvish on the cubs would be somewhat ironic. They got Carl Edwards Jr and Kyle Henridcks from jon Daniels.
Otani is subject to international signing rules. The Cubs can’t offer more than $300,000 unless they want to sacrifice their first round draft pick.
In conclusion, you can rule him out of going to the Cubs.
He’s not even eligible for another 2 years I’m sure by then they would be able to offer him whatever they want.
Actually next year the international rules will no longer apply as he will be 23 years old with 5 years experience, meaning he is free to the highest bidder.
There a quite a few teams that will have money next year Boston and New York will reset there luxury tax next year lots of competition.
I sincerely doubt GMs wait for the rankings to come out to decide the value of a prospect. They could care less what any of those polls thinks of a player they like, or don’t like.
Russell, Carl Edwards, Jr., and Mark Zagunis for Sonny Gray and Sean Doolittle. Have to give up Major league talent now, Cubbies.
Russell is not gonna be traded back to the A’s in a deal for Sonny Gray when he was the center piece for a #4 starter in Jeff Samardjiza. Carl Edwards Jr. Is slated as their future closer. Personally I hope he turns into their setup man and they re-sign Davis for 3 years with an opt out after 2 years.
More like Candelario, Zagunis, Hector Rondon and a minor leaguer for Gray. Add Schwarber to it and they get Archer.
If not then Gray and Doolittle goes to the cubs.
Also if the cubs trade for sonny gray, no reason to go after any starters for next season, unless they go after a second tier guy like alex cobb, Then they need to resign wade davis.
Gray to the Yanks for Mateo and Sheffield.
The reason why Card fans troll their bitterness the way they do is because they live in horrid St. Louis. If you’ve ever spent any time in that city you’d understand and have sympathy for them. St. Louis is Gary Indiana on steroids.
Hey grandpa most people don’t live in the city…probably much like a lot of Cubs fans don’t live in Chicago…I went to Chicago and I thought I went to Mexico instead…stick to commenting on baseball…sorry that the Cubs aren’t going to win anytime soon and they gave up their future…good luck gramps
Isn’t Illinois broke? I heard Missouri might by land from them to help out…what a pos state