Some trade rumblings out of the Motor City…
- The Tigers are reportedly willing to pay the rest of Justin Verlander’s remaining 2017 salary in order to facilitate a deal, Anthony Fenech of the Detroit Free Press reports. This works out to roughly $10.89MM. Reports earlier this week indicated that Detroit was open to including some money as part of a Verlander deal, though according to rival executives who have spoken with Fenech, the Tigers would need to bump that figure up to $25MM-$30MM if the club hopes to receive a good prospect return for Verlander. The former Cy Young Award winner’s future salary obligations ($28MM in each of the next two seasons, and a $22MM vesting option for 2020) and his struggles in 2017 have greatly limited his trade value, though Fenech notes that teams like the Cubs and Dodgers still had scouts at Verlander’s most recent outing.
- The Cubs have expressed the most interest in catcher Alex Avila, USA Today’s Bob Nightengale reports (Twitter links), and Nightengale feels Avila will be the next notable Tiger to leave Detroit now that J.D. Martinez has been traded. Nightengale figures the Tigers would “ideally” receive a mid-level prospect in exchange for Avila, who is enjoying a career year just before hitting free agency this winter. Detroit is reportedly getting a lot of interest in Avila, though the Cubs and Blue Jays are the only teams specifically linked to the catcher (and Toronto has since acquired Miguel Montero).
- Also from Nightengale, he reports that the Brewers “have been aggressive” in their pursuit of Tigers closer Justin Wilson. The Astros, Nationals, Rays and Red Sox are among the other teams known to be checking in on Wilson, who has only elevated his stock since taking over the ninth inning for Detroit. Milwaukee has been linked to any number of relievers and controllable starters, with Wilson joining such names as Brad Hand, Addison Reed and Sonny Gray.
Dodgers almost 100% have checked in on Justin Wilson and possibly even Verlander.. Considering their needs. A righty arm for rotation and a lefty for the pen before Jansen and Morrow.
Gray-Britton
It’s easier and cheaper to do them at once
It probably isn’t going to be any cheaper, but the Dodgers could take on most if not all of Verlander’s contract if their primary target is Wilson.
I meant prospects wise
That’s a big chunk of money BlueSky (56m) That could be a large bust if his spirals continue next season and make them not look after this season for a legitimate starting pitcher.
He’s already 34 and not a finesse Lackey type can see reworking himself into a latter age pitcher. Hard thrower that made his hay with power stuff that is failing. I’d be wary.
I haven’t seen enough of him to have any idea why he has been struggling (I know BB’s are up), but it’s not his velocity. He’s still throwing very hard.
Verlander has actually learned to be more finesse in recent years. He hits the corners. Also, he still throws 100mph….don’t know how his stuff is failing…
@johnsilver, I’ve expressed my wariness of Verlander here many times, and especially questioned where he could fit into the Dodgers rotation. So I am not advocating for the Dodgers to make that deal. I am only pointing out that if the Dodgers are targeting Wilson they might be able to leverage that acquisition by also taking on all or most of the money owed to Verlander and minimize the cost in prospects/players. It would be similar to how they acquired Adrian Gonzales. Not many teams can afford that risk. Still not sure it’s a good idea, but it could happen.
His fastball this year is averaging over 95. It is the highest it’s been in 7 years.
The tigers won’t trade verlander for a salary dump. Theyll want prospects in return. Your scenario has zero chance of happening
Where did I say they don’t get prospects in return?
Whats your plan? A ball lottry tickets? Not happening. TIgers will want 2-3 top 100 prospects for verlander and wilson package. If they eat more of verlanders deal, they’ll want more
Your words don’t feel so good in my mouth. I will stick with my own, thanks.
Dream on TraderRyan
It’s not fialing big V is a great pick up for a large market for Two years with that bad contract sounds like Boris is his agent ? Get smart players look Stanton. That type of contract kills a team hope Arretta wake up Chicago needs to be your home but be smart Strasbourg did now the National will be a winner.WS bound
Britton looked really bad tonight; I don’t think he’s right yet.
youd love wilson.comes in gets the job done quick.him bein lefty tigs will want good haul in return
I would think the Tigers asking prices would be high but looking at their JD return who knows.
If it’s the Dodgers, Al Avila is asking for Buehler, Bellinger and Seager. Anyone else, he’ll take their 20th best prospect… smh
Sounds about right!
I can see Velander in LA – he owns a home there and his girlfirned is an actress. I ‘m sure he would thrive with a decent defense and offense (this is coming from a Giants fan).
More of a model than an actress
Not until after the season. Tigers expect Verlander’s stock to go up in the second half of the season. They would be foolish to pay for him to pitch for someone else. They’re already paying Pelfrey’s $8MM salary who turned around and beat them.
I think the Rockies make sense for Verlander, especially if the Tigers pay for this season. He’d be a great mentor for all of the young starters. Next season Jose Reyes’s $26MM and CarGo’s $20MM come off the books. They could afford Verlander and explore an Arenado extension which would kick in after Verlander’s deal ends. I’d explore a deal centered around either Senzatela or Marquez.
Verlander has a no trade clause. Doubt he’d wave it to go to Colorado.
JV’s a competitor. I think he’d allow a trade to a very competitive rockies team
Donniebaseball- he’s also a guy who cares a lot about his numbers….he’s not willingly going to risk inflating them even more. Trust me.
Colorado is a graveyard for pitchers who rely on late movement on their fastballs. Verlander would be crazy to approve that deal, especially if he could engineer a trade to LA. A pitcher’s park in a city he lives in during the offseason would be pretty great for him at this point in his career.
You’re right that Coors is not a welcome home for a power pitcher, but not about LA being a pitcher’s park. It’s been right around neutral for about 15 years now.
Not just that. Breaking ball pitchers as well. You have to throw completely different to get your desired effects. Mike Hampton is a prime example and how a good pitcher implodes in Denver
Not true. Lots of pitchers have done well in Colorado, all kinds of them (granted, mostly on visiting teams, but the altitude’s the same for everyone). Generally, you want to lean a little more on deception and location, and a little less on movement (velocity is the same), but it’s not like you have to become a different pitcher. Verlander would be fine.
Sarcasm?
Not a chance in hell JV accepts a trade to Colorado.
Marquez would be a considerably better package starter than senzatela. But it’s going to take Marquez and tapiA for the pair of them
I think if Verlander were a FA he could easily get 3yr 60MM, so 2yr 45MM after the Tigers pay down this year, isn’t far off. Rich hill got 35MM with his health issues and at age 38-39
JV has 2 years remaining at $28MM & a vesting option for $22MM…. that’s 2/$56MM & I would believe that he would hit the option, so you’re looking at 3/$78MM not 2/$45MM
That works considering this would be insurance if Kershaw opts out
So if you think he hits that option, which means he finished in top 5 of Cy young voting, that means he is pitching very close to what his contract would be paying him.
Correct, which is great for all involved. I’m just saying that his contract is a far cry from 2/$45MM…
Random thoughts you nailed i! I’ve been Waiting for someone to. Also if that third year vests it would be a good thing for the team.
Does Candelario (Cubs prospect) for Avila sound fair?
Too much from the Cubs imo and that’s coming from a Tigers fan. If they offered that tho I’d take it in a heartbeat
Candelario and Rondon for Avila and Wilson and call it a day
Throw in a mid-level prospect from DET and this is fair. Rondon may be shaky these days, but he’s no slouch. CHC needs a lefty though.
If the Tigers chipped in around 25 million- which effectively would equates to rest of this season, then Verlander at 22,22,17 for 3 years…I think that works. For that, the Cubs still don’t have to give up the world. I think a package along the lines of Candelario, Zagunis, De la Cruz OR Clifton, and MAYBE ONE MORE- should get that done. That’s two likely starters for this Tigers team plus a future starter. Frankly, I’d hope Clifton- but I’d be okay with De La Cruz in that deal- so long as it’s not Albertos. Verlanders walk rate has skyrocketed- hopefully, it’s an anomaly….but in case it’s not then this would be the most I’d want to pay for that deal.
My pop’s a cubs fan so i follow them pretty closely. I don’t think Candelario, Zagunis, De la Cruz OR Clifton are 1st division mlb regulars. De la Cruz is probably the best from that group but he’s still anything but a sure thing. It would have to be someone off their mlb roster.
How does your math add up? $25 mil equates to the rest of this year for verlander?
H town has just recently pulled themselves out of a decade long rebuild and has had success via the playoffs 2 yrs ago and the current season they are having. I would say that the farm and free agency along with the flip flopping of JED with Oakland has brought them to where they are now. So do you break the formula that has brought you this far and sell off your future for the next 2/3 years or stand fast and trust in the process ? If they promote some of this young talent that they control within the next yr and a half along with scoring a few more free agents that they will be a juggernaut the next 6/7 years. HOUSTON WE DONT HAVE A PROBLEM ! Hold on to what you already have……
I’m a Tigers’ fan first, but I’ve always followed Houston.
I think the point of the process is to get to where you have a chance a WS and then add a piece or two to round it out and give yourself the best chance to get a ring.
I’m not sure Verlander is the answer, but I do think Houston needs another starter. McCullers and Kuechel will be a nice 1/2 punch for the playoffs, but you need a third pitcher and I don’t trust Fiers/Morton/Musgrove at all to fill that spot right now. To JV’s credit, he has looked solid the last couple outings, has playoff experience, and there hasn’t been any drop off in his velocity. But Gray would work. Or, probably better than JV this year, Darvish.
I’m also a big believer that a contending team can never have enough solid bullpen pieces. I honestly think JWil may be the best relief arm available(I know Hand has been very good as well).
The bonus for Houston is that their farm is deep enough that losing 2-4 prospects in a trade isn’t going to hurt their future that much. Not to mention all the young talent blocking spots in the big leagues. There’s not place for Moran to play with Bregman and Correa. There’s not likely to be room for Tucker, Fisher, and Daz Cameron in that OF… So, Cameron may be expendable. A package starting around Cameron, Moran, and add a pitcher and maybe a lotto ticket likely nets JV/JWil/cash. That doesn’t touch Tucker, Fisher, Whitely and doesn’t hurt Houston going forward.
The future in Houston is Tucker and Whitley. Trade Preston Tucker, Fisher, Moran etc. Although I would argue that Fisher “a 4 1/2 tool player” would give the offense a better boost in Left than Aioki at this point in the season. I do not disagree with your point of adding pieces to make it to the World Series, I just do not want to sell the farm system to do it. We did that in 2004/2005 and paid dearly for it the next 10yrs.
I would absolutely love to see Fisher in a Tigers’ uniform, but I am not holding my breath.
Fisher would be in involved in any trade involving Wilson.
Another issue Houston has, is they’re at the point where they HAVE to move some prospects. I’m trying, not succeeding at all, to find a list of who will be rule 5 eligible in December.
Obviously moves can be made in the off-season and the 40 man can change to protect. But last year, Houston left Devinski unprotected and thankfully be wasn’t picked up. Might be one of the biggest misses in rule 5 history of recent years.
JV is a tourist attraction for Detroit. They are not going to give him up for just to remove the contract and see their season ticket sales free fall.. It has to be a really good deal for Avila to pull the trigger.
I think he should just lock into a $20MM number for salary relief so he can compare deals apples to apples.
Then ask for the best offer with a deadline of 48 hours before the real trade deadline.
He still needs to get JV to approve, so he needs that buffer.
No reason to pull the trigger if the deal is not good enough. JV has an excellent chance to be productive through the rest of his contract. Just wait and trade him in the offseason or next year.
Al Avila is not as dumb as you think he is.
Very likely that 2 of the 3 he got from AZ are on his TOP 100.
There are many diamonds in the rough that “experts writers” (who are not good enough to work in MLB clubhouses) do not see. Avila hinted that he had “inside info” on one of these guys.
Weird how fans trust “so called experts” ratings over actual GMs. Why?
Two words, Dave Stewart.
What is your point?
Some GMs are just that bad…
Everyone said the same thing about the robbie ray for fister trade… just give it time.
That was Dave’s doing, not Al’s. Dave had a solid track record.
Al Avila does not have a solid track record.
I can only hope the players turn out to be like Willy Adames in the Price deal.
Prospects get GMs fired, and the next GM will reap the benifits.
Time for Cashman to make a big move, I think he can see getting Verlander and Darvish and with his bullpen getting to the series. The Yanks already have two young pitchers in Severino and Montgomery. They trade for Verlander giving up Adams, in return the Tigers pay for his salary the rest of the season and pay down his remaining 2 years too!
The Yankees could eat that entire salary so they didn’t have to give up adams. That’s not going to happen
Although I’m a huge Tigers fan, I’d love to see some sort of multi-team mega-deal come into play.
Don’t hold your breath. You won’t see the Tigers trade for anyone who will make beyond Toledo for 1-3 years.
Verlander and Wilson with 30 million cash would be a heck of a haul for the Astros to pay but really worth it in the long run.
Astros would easily pay Derek Fisher, Francis martes, j.d.davis, franklin Perez, daz cameron and Alveraz
Which is an awesome return for the tigers
There’s no chance Avila can pull a trade off like that.
The Yankees aren’t getting verlander lol y’all are crazy
Ok Avila, all of MLB is watching you to see what you do in your first important deadline as GM. Do the right thing and trade your kid and J Wilson at the very least. Although Wilson has team control beyond this year, I don’t feel his value will be any higher then right now. If you wait til the off season, teams have their choice of free agents and trades to any team not just contenders. And take JV while you’re at it for any real deal that allows you to at least eat the remainder of this years salary and get anything useful in return. Tigers won’t be competitive until after his contract is up anyways.
Verlander stays for the remainder of the year.
Avila is as good as gone.
The Tigers would be foolish to trade J-Willie this year, but don’t forget that this is the same team that gave Pelfrey $16MM over 2 years. Good judgment is not Al Avila’s strong suit.
Why would they be foolish to trade Wilson now? 10-12 teams are in on him. Every team could add a mid 90s throwing LHP. He has the most trade value of any Tiger on the roster not named Fulmer.
I don’t think you know what you’re talking about.
Verlander may stay, but Avila should be trying his best to move him.
And JWil’s value is never going to be higher than right now. There are so many teams in on him. He’s lights out this year. No telling what will happen next except he won’t have extra control(which is worth a lot).
If Avila and JWil are not cashed in(and JWil for something significant) then Avila has failed and should be fired.. He already has a poor track record on the whole
Could the Tigers get something like Mark Zagunis from the Cubs back for Alex Avila. It seems that if Avila is going anywhere, it’s going to be to the Cubs
Victor Caratin is better but for a rental he would do 1/2 yr for Zaguns no pitcher no Victor next year he will give his friend a run at catcher.2018
i think some team will give up some really good prospects for avila.