FRIDAY: Boston has actually offered something more in the vicinity of $125MM over five years, per Michael Silverman of the Boston Herald (via Twitter). Obviously, that’s a far sight more than what had been reported a few days back — and generally within the range of what might reasonably have been anticipated for Martinez entering the winter.
WEDNESDAY, 8:10pm: Boras tells Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports that the reported offer is “not accurate,” though the agent did not specify what, precisely, is off the mark (Twitter link).
12:58pm: It has long been known that the Red Sox have dangled a five-year offer to free agent slugger J.D. Martinez. The value, though, hasn’t every fully been clear. Per ESPN.com’s Buster Olney, via Twitter, Boston has offered the Scott Boras client something “in the range of” $100MM over a five-year term.
As we covered recently, Jon Heyman of Fan Rag reported less than a week ago that Martinez is preparing to wait for those numbers to move northward. The veteran slugger is said to want six years with an annual value at or above the $30MM rate. That’s a massive ask — well over the six-year, $150MM prediction that MLBTR made entering the winter.
Interestingly, though, Heyman suggested there was interest at a higher rate — as he put it, “somewhere in the $120 million to $150 million range” — than Olney’s report provides. Just how to explain that notable difference is not immediately clear. It could be the Sox or others have expressed some willingness to go higher but haven’t yet done so. Offers on the table might have changed. Or, perhaps, it’s different information coming from different sources.
Whatever the reason, this lower number seems to put a different spin on Martinez’s market situation. Boston has long seemed the obvious landing spot, with the major issue for the slugger being where he could drive bidding. The Diamondbacks reportedly love him but have not yet managed to clear salary to free a surprising run that would strain their balance sheets. The Blue Jays have reportedly been on the fringes but there’s no indication that organization is preparing to drive an auction.
At the very least he should get Upton contract, still seems low though.
Health concerns set his price bar is my bet
Its a good point, his talent makes up for it though
I’m happy with Boston’s offer. I love JD but I don’t want us paying 25-30 mill annually for a DH.
I feel the exact same, there’s no reason to offer more and with the history of large contacts why would they want to? I hope they stay put with the offer and JDM can’t make his decision on it, take it or leave it.
They have to overpay for all of the negatives of playing at Fenway where the fans can turn on you like flipping a coin. Plus the press makes it unpleasant as well.
Look at all of the free agent players who have failed; AD and Carl Crawford to name two.
That’s why they paid THE PRICE for Price!
Don’t remember ever throwing food (raw hot dogs) at red sox players like NYY fans used to at that real hot dog reggie jackson in RF, nor switch blades at roy white in CF.
Pedro Cerrano's Voodoo
Always on a Sox article flapping your dumb lips.
A hot dog, even an “uncooked” hot dog, is technically not raw. It is a ready-to-eat food. It is a formed cooked sausage.
David knows his wieners
And they’re right up his alley
Not throwing racial slurs at people
Truth hurt? Yankee fans were horrible. Why do you think Yankee CF wore that plastic helmet while playing the field? it wasn’t because it was more comfortable than a regular ballcap.
Forgot to put Mickey Rivers name in the above post as the NYY CF that started wearing a plastic helmet at home and i remember him wearing it at fenway also to avoid objects tossed at him. A disliked ballplayer.
Much of the NYY was caused of course by owner Georgie, who would hammer them in the media it seemed daily, the that drunk Billy martin would do the same.
All who have failed, and you can name 2. Nothing is guaranteed, players, good players have failed in every city. Boston is by no means unique.
At 20 million they should be able to offer more years
Punchless comments for a punchless team. Let’s talk about 50 years ago to deflect the Red Sox recent history?
No I was typing. However your cover is now blown; anyone drinking cheap gear at a bar kissing his phone could be named Scott (lol)
Was that before the Yankees humiliated you in the Bucky Dent game? Or was it the epic collapse that season.
Time to get real and fast forward to the reality that your city’s fans and press have been unkind to its athletes and as a result your bosox now have to pay a huge premium to get them to sign.
After all David Price admitted that the ONLY reason that he signed with the Red Sox was that they were willing to overpay.
Poor Sox fans. Also have to rush to point the finger at the Yankees instead of just admitting that yes, fenway sucks to play at. Yankees Stadium USED to as well, but thats not what we are talking about right now, is it?
This coming from a yankee fan is hysterical. You think playing at yankee stadium is any different or the media there is “pleasant”? What planet are you on?
Always with the Bosox homer comments you hack, why don’t you stick to what you know.
Tired of reading all about how everything Boston is better than NY…..27 rings….how many do you guys have?
Yeh, you remember all that’s bad…..how about the money that your franchise is pissing away on Rusney, the Crawford and Gonzalez trades….an let’s not forget that pinnacle of class David Price!
And, lets not forget Bobby V!!!!!
Tired of hearing about how much better Boston is than NY? No where near as tired as Sox fans listening to Yankee fans talking about those 27 rings…because you remember all those golden years right?
Want to live in the past let’s talk about how your beloved King George violated election laws by trying to influence and intimidate his employees to lie to a grand jury about donations to Nixon. Only to be pardoned by Reagan.
That’s a real class organization there.
Charles Schwab..Rocky was probably referring to this johnsilver guy who constantly trolls the Yankees.
5 years for $125 million = $25 million a year!
That’s rich come from a Yankee fan.
Hey Rocky, you know, those comments (although accurate and directly on point) would have really angered me about 14 years ago. But, coming back from 0-3 to beat the Yanks then take the Series in 04 and again in 07 has provided me with the relief that hears and years of psycho-analysis couldn’t. Good luck with the new Mantle/Maris/Berra line up. I can see why the Sox don’t want to overspend on JDM… I mean, really is the addition of one power hitter to the Sox actually going to help the, keep pace with the Bronx Bombers, never mind the reigning champions down in Houston, the Tito led Indians who will over achieve bc of him or the newly revamped Angeles? If I were an old rich guy like Henry, and already had 3 rings and broken the never “Curse,” I’d probably be more concerned about spending my bazillions to produce a progeny to inherit my money instead of watching my new younger wife walk away with it all when I’m gone …. and please that’s not meant as any disrespect to Mr Henry….
Hey J. Where did the NL MVP go?
Your team has a litany of signing busts, don’t you realize it??
Take Carl Crawford, AD, Pablo, Hanley….should I continue.
For every one that the Yankees did Boston has 2-4.
Price held Trader Dave hostage. He told the press that the ONLY reason that he signed with the Sox was that they were willing to pay SO MUCH more. They were played into bidding against themselves!
And he has told people that he hates playing in Boston.
Lastly look at how they sentenced bad signings to Pawtucket. You all should be ashamed.
Hey Charles you are an out of touch stock broker. Time to stay within this decade and take inventory. Like the life sentences given to their piss poor signings that sent the players like Craig and Russney to Pawtucket so that they could CHEAT the system and avoid paying luxury tax.
And then the Apple Watch fiasco which once again proved that this team under its current owner John Henry CHEATS at will.
And libbo, don’t bite your lip because you might have to ask mommy for a bandaid.
Now John Henry is soaking you with the HIGHEST ticket prices in MLB and you’re going to justify Henry no longer committed to winning?
That’s the difference between Red Sox and Yankee fans. We expect to be competitive enough to win every year. And though I will give you the championships recently, you just agree that mathematics had something to do with it.
The other difference of course is willingness to accept mediocrity. Your beloved team has had more LAST PLACE finishes in the last 10 years than we have had in 40 years.
That and his defensive liabilities, considering he has said he wants to continue playing the OF.
I just want to point out that I’m hugely amused that your comment saying health concerns lower his value got 2 up and 3 down votes. Then mamss comment saying his talent makes up for it got 5 down votes. So… apparently people just dislike all opinions. Heh.
Health concerns are part of it, and so is the defense. He’s already been a really bad defensive corner OF’er before the age of 30, giving back part of the value of being a great hitter.
How do NL teams get excited about paying up for a guy who should probably be a DH now (at 30) and then plan to play him in the OF for the next 5 or 6 years as the defense is expected to get worse?
Upton Plays decent LF defense, and posted +8 Defensive Runs Saved, +2.1 UZR, 2 teams, 2017.
JD Martinez is a glorified DH, and butcher in the field -5 Defensive Runs Saved, -13.1 Def, and -7.7 UZR with 2 teams, 2017.
JD’s Martinez’s 2016 Defensive #’s is what really scares me: -17.2 UZR, and -22 DRS Lol
Martinez a better hitter, upton is extremely streaky
This is true. But Upton had a better history, whereas Martinez has 1 historic one. (In my opinion, historic, due to limited # games he put up those #’s… 45 HR Nice JD… I wish I could believe it’s here to stay, and I’m the furthest thing from a Red Sox fan! (Yankee fan)
At $100M, I think Red Sox get a ‘steal’ and take advantage of his limited market to the fullest despite his defensive shortcomings.
look at his last 4 season’s hes been pretty close to an elite hitter, think hes past the one year wonder point
No way would I give him an AAV of 30 mil. Then your saying he’s a tick below Stanton, Machado, or Harper. Ummmm Noooooo!!!
He really put it together, with the Diamondbacks.
Almost any other FA period, I could see Sox or any other team having to overpay. I think $100M is a nice gamble, probable steal, given his 2017, and agent (Boras)
Sox would do well to get JD for $100M, You can’t fault them for that^
And I could see JD continuing to produce, because as I’ve said before. power ages much better than speed.
Thing is even if you’re right, Sox are basically bidding against themselves to go higher. Whether he’s “worth” it or not, who is going to pay him more? Teams aren’t willing to overpay for defensively challenged corner outfielders with checkered injury histories anymore.
Who said anything about 3p mil a year, do you Inouye Uptons contract?
Jd Martinez has put up a 166WRC+, 141WRC+, 136WRC+ and a 154WRC+ over the last four seasons.
While I dont think Martinez is deserving of a 150M+ deal he being just 30 years old should help him do pretty well here even if he is defensivley limited.
What about something like a 4 year deal worth 25 mil per year but a 5th year option year for 30 mil with a buy out of 10 million. JD gets 110 guaranteed and possibly 130 over 5 years. If the Sox could lock up JD at 110 over 4 years they probably would.
He was a really good hitter in Detroit.
No matter how good a guy does, I doubt a team is going to pick up a club option worth 30 mill in a players age 35/36 season.
Well based on the way he laid the terms out that option would be worth $20 mil and we don’t know how he will age or what the value of a win will be in 5 or 6 years.
“He really put it together, with the Diamondbacks.”
Happens to many players on the eve of free agency. Something that wasn’t there before clicks, and they’re superstars for a year, or at least a few months. Playing in a home run haven helped too.
“power ages much better than speed.”
yes, it does. Albert Pujols is still capable of putting up 35+ homers a year, but you don’t want to be paying him $30M/year do you?
Whichever teams signs Martinez is going to get stung. Paying big money for players over 30 is getting riskier and riskier, and it’s likely going to change. This offseason is just the first wave. Wake until the CBA is up and they go on strike again.
I also think a lot player (especially power hitters) “put it together” in AZ since it’s a top 3 hitters ballpark.
They are going to have to bite the bullet to sign him. Without JD their hopes are none, not slim as they have no middle of the order threat. Last year proved what happens when a team with Papi surrounded by pedestrian hitters goes from strong to poor when the cog is taken out of the wheel.
Yes, a steal at 100 mil.
But you gotta play 150 games to get paid for 150 games. jd has played that many just once.
Yes, its risky. But why would it be getting “Riskier?”
4/110 is $27.5 per year v the $20 million per year AAV offered on the five year deal.
You just bid against yourself with an almost 40% raise per AAV while risking that he stinks in five years then you have to pay him $30m that year too.
They do not have to bite any bullet. Why bid against yourself
Yeah horrible year winning AL East with pretty much no David Price and off years by hitters.
30MM a year is ridiculous for any player. Let alone someone who cant play the field.
The Red Sox didn’t offer 5/100. That much is certain now that both DD and Boras have said that it’s inaccurate.
I think you are incorrect in assuming the Red Sox are the only interested party. This isn’t exactly the Oriole’s vs. Chris Davis and even then Scott Boras won. The Red Sox need offense and if they were willing to give Hanley 4/88 million they could get talked into the 4 years 100 million plus the option I mentioned. I also think the real stinking point is years. JD has proven to be immensely valuable when healthy the past few years and the biggest issue is his ability to stay healthy. The Red Sox are basically buying insurance. Scott Boras didn’t come out seeking 7 years 210 million to settle for 5 years 100 million. JD is worth more than that, someone just needs to blink.
Didn’t DH like players last year have a hard time signing? Their market topped out at 18-20 mil per year? They can say JD not just a DH but it appears that is what his current market is valuing him at. Shocking 5 yr 100 mil$ not enough
JDM is worth what the market will pay, not necessarily arbitrary numbers that he, his agents or fans think he’s worth.
I get that he is trying to get an AAV of $30mm. Of course he’s trying to get the most he can. That’s why he hired Boras.
But he’s only worth what the market values him, not what he or his agent want.
Real estate works the same way. A house is only worth what someone is willing to pay at that given moment, and markets get hot and chilly.
What a weak argument. Dude’s been a full time starter 3 years. Late bloomer. Missed end of a season due to a broken elbow, and start due to a sprained foot. Timing of the injuries dictated that..
If Martinez breaks his elbow at game 155, it makes you “feel better” because of the games he played, but he still sufferend the same injury. Same about the sprained foot.
The two injuries aren’t related, yes, banged up twice, but a broken bone is hardly something to worry about down the road. It’s not a chronic neck/back/shoulder/knee issue.
Power as one specific skill might age better than speed, but power hitters as a group don’t age particularly well past 30. Here’s a study (since 2006) of power hitters (defined as high ISO, high K rate players, which fits Martinez), and it concludes that power hitters age worse than other players – vivaelbirdos.com/st-louis-cardinals-sabermetrics-a…
He actually took off two years ago but ff naively when he made adjustments to his swing with the tigers. He’s had 3 really good years
Cant play defense or good on the base paths as upton is better all around player and will age better. 4/5 years 100 million seems fair.
Cespedes can’t play defense and he got $27.5 million per season
Not even Close.
In 4564 Innings LF, Cespedes has posted +36 DRS, +34.3 UZR for his career.
In 1407 Innings CF (none, 2017) -23 DRS, and -23.3 UZR for career.
CF deficiency, and respectable LF combined, Cespedes has been worth +13 DRS, +11 UZR in OF.
You’re comparing that to JD’s -32 DRS, -25.3 UZR career marks in the OF.
Cespedes is awful defensively in CF. But LF, he’s one the Best. Martinez never never excelled defensively at any OF position.
Martinez is an inferior defensive comparison, if u want to play this game.
Lol Upton got 5yrs 150M from the Angels.
Uhhh, angels paid him 5/$106 million. So…
Red Sox trying to buy another championship. Disgusting!
@Adam6710 — “You cannot be serious.” This is too silly to not be sarcasm. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt.
Ignore him, he posts the same thing on every signing….
“Giants buying another championship. What happened to parity?”
“Cubs trying to buy another championship. What happened to parity!? Stop this insanity, Selig!”
A few people get it, but it’s funnier when they don’t and get defensive. People are stupid, what can I say.
Except it’s only “funny” if we indulge your narcissism and assume everyone knows your penchant. I have no idea who you are, so it simply smacked of stupidity. You go ahead and enjoy your trolling, though.
Are you and Tracy on the boat?
It’s obviously sarcasm.
When the Yankees spend a nickel they are buying a championship.
When the Sox spend…..crickets….
Isn’t that the goal? To build a winning team?
Exactly, that is my point. As a Yankee fan, it annoys me when people get angry about the Yankees using their financial advantages to assemble a championship caliber team.
Whether it’s taking on Stanton’s salary in a trade, absorbing a bad salary like Ellsbury, signing a free agent like Tanaka, or making savvy trades to acquire youngsters and hot prospects– to even bringing up home grown players like Judge, Sanchez, Severino, and Greg Bird, it’s Brian Cashman’s job to assemble the best team possible by whatever means he has at his disposable.
If that constitutes “buying a championship” then it’s true for EVERY team.
Astros didn’t buy a championship, they built one, something the Yankees have never done and will never do….
No one care how you win a WS ,just win baby,and btw ,the Astros beat the Yankees because of a 28 mil dollar pitcher named Verlander,or do we forget,and the Yankees of the 90s were built on home grown talent and some added players just like the Astros,but the Astros end will come in 2 years when they have to pay altuve,Correa,and springer,Dallas and Morton will be gone after 2018;so Houston fans enjoy it now for the end is near.
So you’re from the future? Tell us who wins the 2020 WS.
It could be the Astros but really do you see them keeping all these players after 2or 3 years when they will be asking for the moon and stars,the Astros made some good picks in the draft,but their is a price to pay for all that talent,just like the royals found out,they had a window of 4 to 5 years and won once and now that team is gone,big money markets will always have a shot,that is just keeping it real.
This guy is a 14 year old troll with no life he has posted the same post in every board about every team. He is just looking for attention
Excuse me, but I’m a 14 year old troll who just happens to be on vacation right now.
And what do you think the evil empire has done?
Upton isn’t a defensive liability.
That’s about right for a guy that will never hit 40 HRs. He’ll never hit those 38 he hit last year. I can see him get run out of Boston because he’ll never learn that money!
He hit 45 last year….
Yeah, if you’re into “facts.”
Next you’re going to tell me he only had 3/4 of a seasons worth of plate appearances.
This has been a very fact-free thread thus far.
He has averaged 40 hr and a .300 batting average per 162 games since getting into detroit. 2 different, completely unrelated injuries occur to shorten the season. One (the broken elbow) is a virtually 0 risk to reoccur. Shouldn’t really be held against him. The foot is concerning, but he played 120 games on it to end the year.
How about you illustrate what jd actually produced…which is, on average, 118 games per season.
The guy is injury prone
Playing 118 games a year his counting stats are still better than almost anyone else in baseball over the past 4 seasons and he will get paid.
I can see him sitting out for a while. Big difference between 20M and 30M and 5 years vs 7 years. I think 220M is a pipe dream if the best offer might be 100M. Has there ever been a difference this large between players demands vs what teams will pay?
Yes, and typically results in the player taking a 1 year deal, which can’t happen here because of the free agent class next year. He is not a 30m per year player.
Chris Sale Amateur Tailor
not true the demands assists start far apart and meet in the middle JD will get something on the 5/125 range and be just fine. do you really think he ever thought he would get 7/210 it’s called negotiating
Generally whenever boras opens his mouth a pipedream comes forth.
Generally when Boras opens his mouth that is exactly what happens. That is why the best-paid players have him as their agent.
Thank you for the downvotes. That means I am right on the money. The hate for Boras is misplaced. The guy gets his players paid and does it almost every time. That is his job and that is why the best players choose him.
The thing is, besides Boston, there really is no market for Martinez.
Other than Arizona. It’s Arizona for a discount or Boston for a little more.
The D-Backs are pretty strapped for cash so any discount would need to be rather extensive. The Sox should have plenty of leverage here.
Yeah unless the D’Backs unload Greinke.
At $100m there’ll be a market. If this is accurate I’ll bet you’ll start hearing of other teams kicking tires very soon.
It’s not accurate. Both the Red Sox and Boras have already said it’s not. If you see Olney’s name next to a post, just take it with a grain of salt.
There is a huge market for him DEPENDING on the contract. At 6/$150MM you are absolutely right. At 1/$25MM I bet 15 teams would be on him.
With the money that the Redsox management has lost with poor decisions you would think they would bend just a little to get this guy, whom they really need!!!! They owe this to the fans who watch the Yankees get much more powerful n the Redsox don’t do a thing!! The evil empire is strong n should blow through to the World Series. Boston has a little pitching but they need a bat AND more pitching.
unless they fear another bad decision
Making a move to try to “counter” the Yankees would be a bad move
Cubs fan but not an astros fan. Yankees are good but blow through to the ws? That’s laughable, astros have far better pitching and a better lineup. Yanks have 2 guys alone that may come close to 500 k’s between them. They are not going to any ws this year.
Lol. I’m not saying the Yankees are going to make the WS or the playoffs for that matter, but to discount their potential bc they have two guys that k a lot is laughable. They just added the NL MVP, and will have a full year’s service from Gray, Kahnle, and Robertson. You’re right, Stanton and Judge are going to k a lot this year, but I don’t care how they make their outs. If both guys get 600 abs, and hit .250, that means they’re going to make 450 outs. If 200 of those outs are k’s, so be it. They’re still both going to rake.
steven st croix
Let’s not forget that Houston will have a full year of Verlander, now Cole, and Joe Smith. Also, I think they have a more balanced lineup than NY. I would pick them over NY right now if I had to. They lost nothing from the lineup that was probably the best in baseball last year. NY might have picked up the NL MVP, the Houston has the AL MVP
I’m not saying the ‘Stros aren’t a better team, they are definitely a more balanced team from top to bottom. I was just responding to the statement that the Yankees aren’t going anywhere this year bc they have two guys, that strike out a lot.
Next you’re going to tell me that walks clog up the bases.
Houston will have a full year of Verlander. Good luck getting a “full year” out of Stanton. Talk about buying high. That contract is a disaster.
Your team is going to get a full year out of Verlander?
When he starts getting knocked around he’ll be fast to head to the DL
Astros better lineup, I am not so sure,their rbi leader only had 92,didi had 87 and that puts him 4th on the Yankees ,they are 2 difference lineup ,Yankees beat you with Power ,Astros do it with mostly with singles and doubles,Yankees bullpen offsets the Astros starting pitching,we saw how bad their bullpen was in the WS,both teams are good it comes down to who has the home field advantage in a series.
Id say yankee field has a lot to do with the inflated rbis, but what does that matter, chris carter swang the bat with one hand and hit a home run in yankee park
The Astros had 3 less Home Runs than the Yankees last year, finishing second in baseball. They also had 33 more RBIs than the Yankees……
Where is this “Yankee park” you speak of?
Astros have a small park all around,left field is as bad as Fenway,do you really think altuve would hit 24HR in yankee stadium,right field is just like Yankee stadium but with a shorter wall,.
You must be an Astros fan,in 3 years you will not be posting any more,and if you are , you will be saying PLEASE sign our players,altuve or Correa might be playing for the Yankees bye then.
The Yankees had so many injuries let’s not even go their,everything went right for the Astros only Correa got hurt for a couple of months in a very weak division,they will not win 102 games this year for the division is much better,but they will still win it.its all about who has home field advantage when it comes to the Yankees and Astros,0 for 3 at Yankee stadium for the Astros,one more game at Yankee stadium and the Astros are out of the playoffs,bet the house on that.
Blow through to the World Series?? Didn’t know the Astros were going to be such a pushover for the Yankees …
Blow through to the World Series, let’s not forget Houston has also gotten better this offseason…
So true ,Boston and Arizona thats it,they will bid against each other,does not spell good for JD ,plus the most I would pay 5/110 for a one way player,smells like another bad contract for Boston.
Re-read what you just wrote right up to your over abundance of !!!!…Literally makes NO sense
It’s about what he’s worth. The Sox have all of the bargaining power here unless a legit mystery team ups the offer. Otherwise Martinez and Boras will have to take the loss on this one
I think we can all agree that a $30 MM AAV over six years for a guy who will be primarily used as a DH is ludicrous.
Agreed. That’s mike trout money
Free agent Mike Trout money would be more like $50m AAV over 12 years.
That said, yeah, $180m is too much for JD. I bet he settles into that $120m-$140m range.
I’m willing to bet now that Harper and Trout don’t see 50mil per.
Very few teams have even shown a willingness to go over 30, they’re not just gonna start throwing 40-50mil per out there. Half the teams in the league won’t even approach them because they know what the price will be.Half of the other half,maybe even more,drop out if it reaches 35.
Stantons deal is the only deal over 300, and 2 years in everybody already talks about how it’s gonna end up a bad deal. Yes,Harper and Trout are arguably better players.But 10-20mil per year better, I don’t think so.
I haven’t heard anyone predicting 50 for Harper. I bet he touches 40 though (or signs like a 15 year 30+ contract)
If this is a hypothetical “if Mike Trout were a free agent today” scenario, then he’d maybe get $40+ MM over 12 years. I doubt he gets more than a 7-8 year deal when he hits free agency at age 30 though.
Nobody is going to pay $50M per year for any player at this point, but Harper has a chance to be right around $40M AAV. Machado will get less, and then when Trout becomes a free agent he’ll likely top both in AAV (if he continues producing) but will get a much shorter contract based on age.
My guesses: (worth absolutely nothing)
Harper signs for either $460/12 years ($38.3 AAV) or $360/9yrs ($40AAV)
Machado signs for about $315M/9 years ($35AAV)
Trout (after 2020 season)…$275M/6 years (about $45MAAV)
Right, but if Trout were a free agent now, I think he could get close to $50m. Harper is fantastic and I’m not knocking him, but he’s no Trout. Trout is building a legitimate case to be in the 5 greatest players ever.
I mean, maybe the super-premium guys end up with 20 year deals at $30m/year so that the signing team doesn’t get totally hosed by the luxury tax while the player is in their prime.
Or maybe they end up with a $450m guarantee rather than $500m or $600m. I’ll be interested to see what happens.
Sure, but Stanton wasn’t a free agent when he signed that deal, and he also got an opt-out.
At end owners are trying to stop the crazy growth in salaries and trying to nock it down this year before it continues to grow at an enormous rate out of hand. Can we all remember they play baseball and all it does for us fans is raise ticket prices or rates to watch games however you watch it. One player will be getting more money than the Marlins payroll for 2018.
Not sure you are using the word “arguably” correct.
There is NO argument. None. Stanton just had his career year. He posted 6.9 fWAR. Amazing. Phenomenal. MVP type season.
Trout’s LOWEST fWAR in his career is 6.9 fWAR. Trout’s worst = Stanton’s best. Of course, it took Stanton 30% more PA’s to simply match Trout. No shame in that. Trout is just in a different realm than everyone else.
What team currently can afford a $40 mm player?
Ever? Trout is phenomenal, but he’s no match to players like Williams and Ruth.
The Red Sox. The only problem is that if you don’t produce you will face the bombardment of anger and humiliation and John Henry will send you to prison in Pawtucket so he doesn’t have to pay luxury tax.
Speak up Sox fans????
If it is a single year contract then lots of teams would pay $50 million for Trout or Harper or Kershaw or Scherzer.
4 years/$120m? Maybe with 2 vesting options after year 4 with $15 million buyout and an opt out after 2 years.
But I was using Trout and Harper together. I’d say both are better than Stanton,but maybe everybody won’t. Really had nothing to do with my point.
I’m not talking ifs….you know they’re not signing 1 year deals.
it’s just playing poker. Unless someone else shows up, why should the Sox offer more?
they are maxed here, going beyond 5 years and 20m per year will result in bad deal for them by 3rd year
more like bad deal by the all-star break
JD Martinez is Carl Crawford 3.0 (Panda being 2.0)
Evil empire fan!
Not even. two completely different players?
Carl Crawford? Lol
Ellsbury fits more into Crawford 2.0 mold, than Martinez. This is coming from an ‘evil empire’ fan.
See? It’s already starting JD.
Do you want to expose yourself and your family to that?
Arizona is so much the better choice, right?
YES! YES! Arizona is where you want to go! It’s warm year round! The media is friendly! You can suck in obscurity!
Boras never seeks overpayment for his clients, he seeks GROSS overpayment. My guess is this poker game goes well into March, and if BOS finds a viable alternative to Martinez in the meantime, Boras will be left holding the bag.
When has Boras been left holding the bag for a top free agent?
Stephen Drew after the 2013 season qualifies as a major error in judgement on Boras’s part. First of all, he rejected Boston’s qualifying offer (14 million dollars guaranteed for 2014 for a guy who hit only .253 and boring power numbers). Then, Boras – according to Boras himself – rejects 3 year, 39 million dollar deals because he demands fourth year option. The end result was that no team signed him in off season, he only finds a deal with Boston (one year deal, at 4 million less than the 14 million he’d have earned if he’d taken the qualifying offer), only begins playing in June, and without any sprung training had a terrible 2014 season and his career has never really been the same since. Boras cost Drew tens of millions of dollars.
Calm down David. Your meds will be arriving soon. Take a deep breath. Steven Drew was never a mid tier free agent, much less a top tier.
Perhaps you are lobbying out of embarrassment for his brother, who when he played for the Sox was nicknamed, “J DL Drew”.
Sorry that he didn’t play enough for you, huh?
You can patronize him all you want, but Stephen Drew lost tens of millions of dollars because of Boras. Just because he wasn’t a top tier player doesn’t change the fact that he lost this money because of Boras. It happens.
I did say top tier.
Markets change.. home runs are now commonplace..10 to 12 teams in full rebuild mode..price will not go up if he decides to sit..20 million is plenty.. you dont want to bid against yourself!
Boras..somehow always manages to get teams to bid against themselves.
Or gross overpayment
Or if it’s not want he wants he will have the owners touch their toes with an early opt out clause? He usually gets Detroit or nats owners involved to bid up his clients and one has passed and the other has Bryce Harper on back burner for next year
Given the way the market has shaped I doubt he gets anything much above $20 million annually. I think McCutchen being traded also hurt his stock as well b/c it’s one less team in need of an OF and the Giants really needed help.
Boras: Martinez has received multiple offers over the last 48 hours
This will be on mlb trade rumors by Friday night, watch
As Darvish..tweeted out himself the reported interest and terms reported are incorrect..
I can see him accepting a 5 year, 100M only if he can opt out after 1 year and test the market again next year.
Any opt out would have to be in 2 yrs to avoid Harper, Machado etc.
Who can take Heyman seriously on any report about a Boras client? He’s Boras’s personal assistant FFS!!!
I still don’t know what Universe he was living in when Heyman commented that the Giants were definitely still in on Lorenzo Cain moments after they acquired McCutchen. Totally absurd to even say that in a drunken ramble.
Well McCutchen is playing RF in SF. So technically they still can sign Cain to play center
Maybe it was Sabean saying they were still interested in Cain that caused Heyman to repeat it? You think that might be it?
Given how hesitant teams are to pay JD a salary in 5 years, what’s the biggest 1 year contract he could sign? 40 million? 45? Paid out over several years?
Bobby Bonilla contract lol why?
The dudes not getting over 20-25m/yr limited market, defensive liability, I wouldn’t go over 4 years.
I like to think more like a max Scherzer deal, except 40M is a hard upfront cost. It’d be worth more like 30M effectively to the team if it’s spread out even 5 years.
What do you mean “like a Max Scherzer deal”? Scherzer didn’t receive $40M upfront…it shows a $50M signing bonus, but he didn’t get that at signing (signing bonuses are paid differently in MLB than the NFL; all the money in an MLB contract is guaranteed, so it’s simply structured that way for accounting purposes and to account for the AAV/Luxury Tax.) Scherzer’s deal is simply a 7 year deal ($210M in total), paid out over 14 years at $15M per year. His “average salary” is $31M per year, but with the deferrals it lowers to his AAV to about $28.3M per year.
I just meant spread out rather than a lump sum obviously. I’m very tired of the bobby Bonilla reference today because not many understand how it works or complain about it as if 1M today is any different than the money owed at the time.
The Scherzer deal is simply just an example because not many are complaining today because it’s obviously working out.
I don’t think your number is unreasonable, but the luxury tax would really punish a high AAV short term deal for most of the teams that would be willing to consider it in the first place.
The Mets did that with multiple players in the past and also some that are still getting paid today besides Bonilla. Bonilla was just widely exposed but there are others this year still collecting deferred money.
Also if he’s worth 20/25M over 4 years in your eyes. With decline being assumed given his age, what’s his first year contract actually worth to the team over the total value? 40% of the deal? 50%?
Teams like the Red Sox aren’t paying him to play outfield, he would be the DH, so I highly doubt teams are looking at his defense here.
My only reason for asking is this. What if it’s a 1 year contract worth that, and the remaining 60M or so are a one time option for the team. Like a reversal of the player opt out.
You’re getting premium year at premium cost with the player assuming the risk he will be signed under market value the next four seasons.
Can he/would he play 1b? I bet he’d get more teams in on him and possibly at a higher AAV if he would play first.
I was thinking JD was the one free agent that is being reportedly telling his friend that he’s prepared to sit out until midseason because the market isn’t there right now. Just a wild guess – and the report could most likely be false.
In the end he mkes half a season less if he sits out.
And, he’s half a season older…
and, the midseason trade market starts to develop and teams look to start to move people, so he will still be competing with a trade market that teams might find cheaper.
Suppose the Phillies decide by June that they are going to move one of their OF?
Suppose the Yelich sweepstakes stretch into the summer?
Suppose the Dodgers still want to move Puig and they can match up with the Bosox at that time?
All of those might be viewed by the Bosox as superior options by June.
It’s risky to sit out.
Or Hanley, Betts,, Bogey,, JBJ return to 2016 form and Devers, Beni, Mitch get off to great starts.
So basically in a perfect world rather than a realistic one?
Six years at 30m+, ridiculous!
$20 mil a year makes sense. Ortiz never made that and he was more proven at DH.
Also seems like a good idea not to overpay when you have next years FA group to overspend on.
Ortiz never was a FA before he was 35 like JD Martinez was. If Ortiz was a FA after his age 29 season in 2005 he gets 8/200 easy in todays dollars, maybe more.
Boras is so predictable…he must be taking lessons from Reggie Dunlop….this guy was released by the Astros 3 years ago…and boom, he’s a phenom commanding $100M over 5 yrs…this is a bogus story or report…sign up for the Athletic (recommended) I guess. LOL
The risk in this contract as usual I’d the projected slide in the last 2-3 years. JD had a career season in just 120 games in 2017. It is unlikely based on past performance to think he can repeat those stats. His game works pretty well in Fenway if the spray chart tea leaves are to be believed. The biggest question is if Boston really has a choice whether or not to oblige him if they hope to contend w/ the yanks in 2018? Nobody else is as available at his level but Boston may be bidding against themselves here.
If he waits into March, Boras risks a fully healthy Hanley looking like a return to 2016 form — .286/30/111 as a full time 1B — is the best alternative at zero additional cost.
I’m glad the owners are standing up to Boras
A lot of these contracts are getting ridiculous
He has a pretty good track record to show that he Can produce similar to what he has in the past. His best bet is probably to DH in the AL. 20 million seems fair, but anything beyond 6 years for 30 million+ annually is not worth it.
I would offer him 4 years, 105 million with a vesting player option for a 5th year at 30 million. I’d be hesitant to give him 5 guaranteed years.
5 years 110 million with an opt out after the second year seems fair to me
DD has lost his magic.
John Henry is steaming about the PRICE contract which will go down in MLB history as the WORST contract ever. He took Trader Dave’s allowance away and wouldn’t let him trade anymore minor league talent, though that’s actually an overdescription of what’s left in AAA and AA at the moment.
So he proposed reading JBJ and Mookie to bring his buddy 1B from Detroit and was overruled.
His days are numbered. Wouldn’t be the first GM to be frosted there. Wouldn’t be the 2nd come to think of it. Or the 3rd.
GM is a position where stability and consistency are critical. I guess Brian Cashman can begin laughing now at the bazaar Sox behavior.
Martinez needs to realize he’s at best, a DH/1B, and isn’t going to get 200 million from any team. That goes for Boras as well.
Boras is like a used car dealer hoping some chump will come pay the asking price which he knows is too high.
“Attention: Trader Dave. Please report to the chump window for your used car.
Sorry that you overpaid. But look at the fancy wheels Dave. Oh, he’s slow on the bases? Too bad. We have a no return policy.”
Sorry to inform you, but JDM hasnt played 1B. Why would he suddenly think he’s a firstbaseman?
Padres Armchair GM
Same reason padres moved wil myers to 1st. JDM isnt the greatest defender. Why not try him out at 1st. Let them keep that defensive outfield in tact.
So platoon him with Moreland?
I wouldn’t play him in RF if I had the option to have him try and learn some 1B. Not be a main 1B, but get some time here and there.
The market has been very frugal/realistic. this off season. The teams that had big money to spend and were under the luxury tax have done so or are more in rebuild mode. Big market teams have been trying to avoid or lessen luxury tax burdens. .
All you have to do is look at the free agents out there still and then look at who is out there on the free agent market next year.
The red Sox don’t need to give the outrageous boras ask of $30 mil per over 7 but they should just give a good offer now that he sees his market so pay more than the market and lock him up. I’m not concerned with their payroll and no fan should be. I don’t give a crap what they have to pay. They make a fortune off of us
Ticket prices at Fenway going up $3 per seat, courtesy jdodge22, who didn’t care how much they spent on payroll.
Don’t be stymied. They were raising the prices anyway. Highest in the country, right. Does that include the Boston City sucker tax?
Give the guy $125 M over 5 years, with a 6th year mutual or vesting option in the $28-30 range…and call it good. That’s the best he’s gonna get and he knows it; if he doesn’t accept that, good enough. Move on to plan B, or C…or D-H. This has dragged on for too long, though I do respect DD for holding his ground with Boras…right up until someone else swoops in and signs him. If you offer 5/125 (or 6/155 I suppose), and he says no; then you know you gave your best effort, he was never coming to Boston anyway, and you can turn your attention to the next option.
I’d give JD a 2 year deal so he hits the market after the Harper and Machado sweepstakes is over.
So Paul, do you think JD wants to play for a team that has a Dan like you suggesting that he is a dummy to take a stupid deal? His career could be seriously on the downside in Two years. That’s why he is going to soak the Sox.
I think it is a fair market deal maybe the red sox interest in offense has been overstated? Moreland and now this? It doesn’t seem like a desperate team to me.
Maybe their interest is more about hanleys option and not offensive improvements. We kept drumming up last offseason how the red sox needed a papi replacement and it didn’t happen.
They could theoretically could just be confident in a healthy return to form for other players and Martinez was only wanted in the right deal. Or turn to pitching side as well.
Or Nick they could be holding out hope that Papi will want to make a comeback.
Without him, the “healthy return to form will actually develop as a two straight year sub par offense with no punch”.
Next week or the week after, there’ll be headlines that JD signs with the Nats for 5 years/$125.Million. The Nats will need someone when next winter rolls around and all they’ve have in return for Bryce is a draft pick..
Ask all he wants. There’s only one team out there willing to offer the big contract. He can take it or leave it but other teams are only interested if his ask goes down.
As someone who is not a RS fan, I hope they commit such a disparate amount of resources to him.
Think about the source of this “rumor”. Olney is not exactly a reputable source.
Surely the jays can match that deal if they back load it a little so the figures get bigger once Martin etc come off the books?
Don’t know if JD wants to play in Canada but he’d be a good fit I think
Hey Aussie—no worries. He will take the Sox best offer any take 20% off to the Jays. Plus he will be willing to eat the Canadian dollar differential to play for a fan base where he won’t be cut up by June.
The market dried up for JD because the Marlins sent Stanton to the Yankees and Ozuna to the Cardinals. Then the Pirates sent McCutchen to the Giants. Those were the 3 teams that could afford JD and had some interest. Boras saw the writing on the wall when he had that tirade about how what the Marlins were doing was terrible for baseball earlier in the off season.. NO, he really meant terrible for his big free agent this year. JD Martinez needs to go to an American League team. He is barely serviceable as an OF. Nobody wants him patrolling the OF in 4 years. Boston is just about his only choice. These articles suggesting the Jays or Dbacks could be interested seem like Boras trying to create interest that isn’t there. If Boston somehow trades for Yelich Boras might have a stroke.
Blue Jays very much still in OF market.
True, and another way of looking at is if the Boras/Martinez ask wasn’t reportedly 7/210 or at least in the $200MM range, and been more “realistic” the teams you cite might have looked to sign Martinez instead of pursuing the trade market.
For example, the Cards aren’t adverse to big contracts (Holliday, Molina and reportedly offered Pujols 210MM) but they have their limits. So if Boras/JDM had had an ask in the range that the Cards found palatable, they might not have looked elsewhere.
Actions have consequences, and when Boras asks a lot of teams look elsewhere.
While this is much better news than the estimated 5/150m I saw reported recently, but I still don’t really want this signing as a fan. Personally I think the money would be better sent bringing back Eduardo Nunez for 2 years and an option and Tony Watson for maybe 1 year and an option. If you have the money to get all three, by all means.
I know they need power, but I look at their lineup and see a lot of guys with a better chance to take a step forward from last year than take a step back. The only guys I see as offensive regression candidates from last year are Moreland and Vazquez. Benintendi and Devers will have growing pains, but showed enormous promise last year. Bradley Jr., Pedroia, Ramirez were all hurt and should be playing healthier this season, I’m very willing to bet that at least one of those three will be much better than last season; it would be a challenge for any of them to be worse.
Nunez was a huge sparkplug for the team and is versatile in the field. He would be an everyday 2B until Pedroia returns, and will float and play nearly every day across multiple positions when Pedroia is back to every-day strength. Watson would be a nice bounceback candidate to get for relatively cheap. Combined they wouldn’t cost as much as JDM will yearly.
I totally agree with ya. This is pretty much the same team that won the AL East last year, and a lot of them underperformed. Sure having Martinez would be incredible, but they can have Logan Morrison can be had at a 1/4 of JD’s asking price and is a solid power bat, and can even field if need be.
I’d love for Boston to do this and see what happens next.
“Nunez was a hugh sparkplug for the team and is versatile in the field”
Of course he was….he was playing for a contract.
The guy has a $5 dollar bat and a $.10 cent head….he can make some of the most boneheaded plays
psst pitchers and catchers report in 27 days.
Best news of the day
Ski to Coors
5/120 is what Red Sox and Boras settle on in about a month if Diamondbacks can’t trade Greinke.
I’m guessing it goes to 5/125. Anything above that will most likely mean he won’t sign with Bosox. My guess is the only other viable team for JDM is Arizona.
Someone needs to tell Boras it’s not 2011 anymore.
6+ year, 9-figure contracts are now restricted for the rare free agent (Harper, Trout, etc.).
Why? The luxury tax threshold + bad contracts of the past (*cough Sin Soo Choo *cough) + GM’s access to advanced analytics.
Fact is, JD has only played in 150+ games 1 time in his career and he is only getting older. While he is a great hitter now, teams might be only able to pencil him in for 120 games a year at this point and he is only going to get older.
He will never get the 6/30 that GREEDY Boras thinks he can …
doug mafooski heating n roofing
Take it bruh
Why are so many people up in arm over the amount of money? It’s not your money and the teams are making record profits so they can certainly afford it.
It is Olney, so we can be reasonably certain its total BS. Can you find anything that guy said that is right?
Teams are not going to ignore the luxury tax anymore it just isn’t good business to give your money away to the cheap owners that only care about their bottom line.
2: The Red Sox had already made a lot of stupid signings like Grawford,Gonzales,Sandoval and Castillo so if they wanna be more careful that’s fine by me.
And let’s not forget they’re going to need a closer next year and their young players are starting to get expensive.
Gonzales wasn’t a bad signing. 23.2 WAR since joining the Red Sox. That’s worth 162.4M right? He’s only going to have made 157.828M. All he has to do is be reasonably neutral this year.
Teams are not going to ignore the luxury tax by going FAR over it like the Dodgers have the past 4 seasons, but the fine for going say $10 million over is negligible.
Just because it’s not our money doesn’t mean there isn’t a limit to how much of it is spent by the owner. With that in mind, nobody is complaining at the amount of money being spent, but there is discourse as at how the Red Sox should allocate their budget.
The Red Sox post season loss was more due to pitching rather than hitting. The Red Sox need a LH hitting IF more than a RH hitting DH/OF. They could use another starter/long reliever too. JD Martiniez contract will likely reduce DD’s options.
I wonder how many more games the Sox would have won if they could actually hit with runners in scoring position… atrocious last year. Only team without a grand slam…
And that, my friend, is a terrific argument for why Boston doesn’t need to go crazy to add anyone else to the team. You can’t guarantee anything no matter how much you spend, but the team wont the division last year despite a very down year overall by the hitters on the roster, plus a number of disappointing pitching seasons. Minor rebounds in general and a few significantly bigger seasons and that’s 95+ wins right there, which is about all you can ask for.
If anyone is trying to figure out why this reported offer is so much less than what people expected Boston had already offered, it’s simple: because people WANT Boston to overpay (just as they want any bigger market team to). When Johan Santana was on the trade block, people wanted the team to surrender a massive package, and the actual trade done with the Mets was for far less than anything people reported on with Boston. Ditto with the Hamels trade, and the Sale trade that actually occurred.
People want Boston to go six years and $25M or more. I can’t blame them, the more Boston pays to any one player the less there is for adding more talent. But given that Martinez would be primarily a DH for the team, it never made sense for the team to offer $25M+. It might go higher than the reported deal here, but likely not all that much more, and that is wise and responsible.
It is because its really unrealistic to think that JDM will sign for less than Cespedes who was a year older when he signed his deal. $27.5 AAV is the starting point for negotiations.
My bottom line with the five years 110 million, with a inflated sixth-year vesting Option That could get him closer to 130 million total package
Let’s say a $30 million vesting option, That would bring him up to 140 million
Dodgers need a right handed hitter but as usual they are not wanting to spend any money to get one
AS USUAL? This team’s dead weight money (players no longer on the roster) was more than 1/3 of other MLB salaries in total. They had the highest payroll in 2016 and 2017. Currently they have the 2nd or 3rd highest payroll, and that’s because they are saving money to hit big in the 2018 free agent market.
BTW, don’t think I’m defending the Dodgers. I loathe them like I loathe broccoli.
JD has better defense and base running than Kemp??
If the Red Sox are offering a 20 million AAV they should have no problem going 6-7 years. Frankly at that price many teams should be jumping in
They seem to know what other offers are out there. I suspect an information bank or some tier system that has been agreed to on FA offers
JDM is a good hitter. He’s had some pretty good protection in Arizona and Detroit in the last two years. He’s not the H of F Miguel Cabrera is and 5 years for $100 M is plenty for the Sox.. If they want to pay $100 M to anyone offer it to Mookie, a true 5 tool player.
Anything less than $300m is an insult.
Hey, put my phone down Scott
I read Scott Boras asked for 7 years and over $200M for JDM in November.
I now am reading the Red Sox offered 5 years $100M for JDM.
What I’m wondering is why no one else offered anything more?
Not even his old team AZ?
I also haven’t heard anything on Hosmer?
Just that SDP offered 7 years and $140M.
And that they love his leadership skills.
I recall talk of the Red Sox getting both players for $350-400M.
Not hearing that lately.
Could it be they aren’t worth it?
No way says Scott Boras.
They are “The Elite”.
And get this “JDM wants to play in the outfield”.
Wow that ought to add an extra $100M right there to his contract.
Don’t you think?
I mean who cares if JBJ is one of the best fielding CF’s in the game?
We’ll bench JBJ, put Benintendi in CF and Betts in LF so JDM can play RF?
Make sense to you?
I guess it does to Scott Boras.
I’m sure glad he’s not our GM.
He’s not anyone’s GM. He’s an agent trying to get top dollar for his client.
dynamite drop in monty
Put down the pipe.
Hot Stove 2018: The Staring Contest
doug mafooski heating n roofing
The market favors the teams not the players. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him take a 1 year prove-it contract to see if he can replicate 2017, then cash in. But even then he’s not getting 30 mil per year.
shocking that boris says its untrue. I’m sure his side of the story is they are fielding offers left and right for at least $250 mm/7 years, but for the right team they might work with them on price.
The actual offer was probably very close to 5 years, $100M, but if that figure is off by even one penny Boras calls it inaccurate. Why didn’t he just state the actual offer? Oh wait – he only talks years and dollars offered by “mystery teams”.
“Boras tells Jon Heyman of FanRag Sports that the reported offer is “not accurate,” though the agent did not specify what, precisely, is off the mark (Twitter link).”
The offer is 5/$99M? 5/$101?
I think this will be another mark trumbo situation. Has his prime year then gets over paid for not anywhere close to the production in 2017
Martinez’s production the past 4 seasons – 154, 139, 142, 166 OPS+. He is far from a 1-year wonder.
Rec Sox valuing JDM the same as Pablo Sandoval a few years ago. Lol. They have problems
Another overpaid contract that will hurt them in a few years
20MM a year for a 5 year term is fine but this guy can’t be getting one of those 30MM avg salary Greinke type deals. He isn’t even average in the field he’s a liability, I think that type of salary needs to get you an all around stud
Gee Boras says its wrong, it must be. Glad he cleared that up for us.
So did Dombrowski. 2 for 2 of the people involved say its wrong. Is that enough for you?
5 years $125 Million seems like an overpay to me. However, it’s probably a number that gets you in the conversation. If he’s anywhere in the range of that he’s crazy to turn it down. And I feel sorry for the club that gives it to him.
Cespedes had less offensive production, plays bad defense and his deal was $27.5 million per season AAV. Martinez will get that as a minimum.
As I said, I could say the sky is blue and would get 2-3 downvotes.
As I said, read my fact substantiated post, all the way, at the very top, I responded, to your response to imindless, in which you made the same claim: “Cespedes plays bad defense and got $27.5MM AAV”
Cespedes is atrocious In CF, but his LF has been GG worthy, and more than makes up for it.
Cespedes career defensive #’s in OF:
+13 Defensive Runs Saved, +11 UZR
JD Martinez’s Career defensive #’s in OF:
-32 Defensive Runs Saved, and -25.3 UZR
These last couple of years, Cespedes has been a GG worthy LFer, which is more than I can ever say for JD Martinez. (Who isn’t GG or positive, all OF positions)
Sometimes, people down-vote for no reason, But don’t play the victim this time.
Cespedes plays poor defense.
The year before he signed his deal with the Mets, Cespedes was a -3 DRS and a -6.7 UZR overall in the OF. Last season was entirely in LF at -2.9 UZR. That is not gold glove quality.
JD Martinez plays poor defense. Worse defensively yes, but in LF in Fenway it would be a negligible difference and while he is a DH it makes absolutely no difference.
Now for offense. Take your pick of stats. wOBA, wRC, BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+. In every measure, Martinez is better.
That is the point.
Martinez should and will get an AAV as large as Cespedes. Multiply it by 5/6/7 years.
Martinez OF Defensive numbers:
2016: -22 DRS, -17.2 UZR
2015: +4 DRS, +7.7 UZR (Best year of his career)
2014: 0 DRS, -1.6 UZR — [ Notes: (+2.1 RF) and (-3.7 LF) gives -1.6]
2013: -9 DRS, -7.2 UZR
2015 was the best year defensively, for both players.
Cespedes had +11 DRS, +15.6 UZR
JD had +4 DRS, +7.7 UZR
Now Can you please stop down-voting me, Mr. Boras? I like intelligent baseball discussions, and only down-voted your comment, once (and just the ones comparing Cespedes’ “D” to JD… to justify $27.5M AAV for JD Martinez Lol.
I’m sorry if things got heated… It’s just really annoying when someone ignores your response, only to repeat the same thing over in the thread. And I know you didn’t see it.. But that deserves 2-3 down-votes, outta spite? Lol Cmon man… I worked hard on my posts Lol
I hope it’s your #1 fans or something, and not you^
Maybe it’s not you.. I’ve had many good discussions, with you.
But Cespedes’ D>>>JD’s D (Sorry, buddy.. )
Next Boras is going to come out here and say Martinez has received multiple 200+ million dollar deals.
I think the owners have an illegal standing agreement among themselves to control free agent spending this year that will be tested next year with all the huge names coming available,just hide and watch the money isn’t going to be as high as everyone thinks it is .There won’t be any 400 million dollar contracts next year, collusion has set in.
They are not colluding. The facts are out there. Teams who win are those who do most of their building from within. There’s also a luxury tax which works like a pay cap. Teams are actually paying attention to this therefore it limits what teams are willing to pay.
5/$100M is basically exactly what the Sox gave Hanley Ramirez (the 5th just being a conditional option as long as he gets 475(ish) aBs) and comparing the two players – they’re actually pretty comparable (Stat wise at time of deal). So while I initially though whoa! That sounds low… after I kind of looking at it from that perspective — I think JDM is the one who might be more out of touch/whack with what he’s worth.
If you were paying him solely on last seasons play – yeah sure 5-6 and $30m/year that’s obvious. But Nora’s at least should know better than to think teams will still make long term financial decisions that way. Paying based on a one-season ‘outlier’ if teams were still doing that whole routine the Yankees would have like a $22M 5th OF or something… oh way – gotta love the pretty-boy Jacoby lol.
Anyway – given the total lack of alternatives. The huge ($22m) incentive to not let Hanley get to 475ABs (which I am implying can best/optimaly be done by platooning Hanley at 1st and DH when JD is in OF — still using him for 400+ abs but just not triggering another $22m for next season) and that the team intends to go over the luxury tax regardless — I think they should extend themselves “slightly” to sign him. Something like 5/150 would seem like a solid compromise. And unless they can find some pop elsewhere by trade or maybe showing Xander where the weight room is… I might even consider as high as 6/180 — though at that level I will admit they are overpaying. bUT given the total of… 0 alternatives currently out there — the money’s going be spent one way or another. Or just pocketed so why not roll the dice on a guy who’s got a solid clubhouse reputation and has the potential to do what he did last year?
Unrelated but currently still irritating me… had we just traded JBJ to LAD for Puige we’d have All the leverage and not even need him to be able tofield an acceptable MLb lineup next season — but I get distracted lol…
Its not the amount of money or length of contract that is the issue here. Teams are trying to pay less for players because the players value as an investment has plummeted in baseball over the last 10 years. No one is watching it on tv or going to games. In the last five years Ive been to 10 plus nyy games at yankee stadium and 8 games at fenway. Not once are they anywhere near capacity. The players are gonna learn a hard economic lesson in the near future that the big money contracts are in the nba now.
Baseball has some issues on the horizon – avid baseball fans played baseball as a kid and nobody does that anymore because youth baseball is a pay-to-play industry and not fun anymore – but baseball still makes tons of money.
The issue is, analytics have completely devalued a lot of what teams were paying tons of money for, and instead they generally focus on stuff that has been empirically proven to help teams win on the field. Bigger money teams will still overpay to out-leverage the competition, but now even they’re far smarter than they used to be about who they spend their money on, and how much.
Not sure where u live but little league baseball is as strong as always here in FL. My kids don’t play anymore but the fields around me are still filled every Saturday all day.
I think 5 years $100M is a fair deal, still a bit of an overpay for a DH. JD is a very good hitter, mediocre fielder.
Cespedes is a good hitter, mediocre fielder. What did he get paid?
Read my 2 responses to this exact post, you posted in this thread, comparing Cespedes’ “mediocre fielding to JD Martinez’s fielding.
You’re ignoring my responses, yet posting
the same thing here.
Cespedes plays poor defense.
link to fangraphs.com
The year before he signed his deal with the Mets, Cespedes was a -3 DRS and a -6.7 UZR overall in the OF. Last season was entirely in LF at -2.9 UZR. That is not gold glove quality.
JD Martinez plays poor defense. Worse defensively yes, but in LF in Fenway it would be a negligible difference and while he is a DH it makes absolutely no difference.
link to fangraphs.com
Now for offense. Take your pick of stats. wOBA, wRC, BA, OBP, OPS, OPS+. In every measure, Martinez is better.
That is the point.
Martinez should and will get an AAV as large as Cespedes. Multiply it by 5/6/7 years.
A mystery team just offered JDM $180m.
And he didn’t sign that right away? Good one man.
Boras is monitoring the situation.
Yes in Boras dreams that happened no chance anyone makes that big of an offer Boras overplayed his hand this time.
no no .. the mystery team offered him 130 million with 129 million defered over the next 40 years.
Wait maybe that offer takes away the mystery on the team
lol @ Boras attempting to make the offer sound like fake news. Nobody is going to outbid Boston for this guy.
Still wouldn’t give more then $115-120mil to JD, because he’ll only more than likely dh.
If this new report is accurate, now he’s got 5yrs at a 30m+ aav. Dude is not going to do much better.
$25 million AAV. $30 million would mean they offered $150M total.
5 years at $25M
I’ve read no source that claims the Red Sox have made the best offer to date.
That would be 25M. He would need 150M over 5 years to get 30M aav. I am wondering if he is holding out for somewhere he doesn’t have to DH right now.
Oops. Bad math.
$125/5, if that’s true is not an unreasonable offer if he can perform at close to last year’s level. Expensive for a pure DH, though. Boras is still looking to shoot the moon. I’ll bet the non-colluding owners might be wondering where that “source” came from.
Look, if he’s being offered $25M just to DH then we can just throw the word collusion out the window. Now he’s just drinking the Boras kool-aid.
25 Mill aav for a one dimensional player who will be 31 by opening day I believe. Boston has no reason to offer that much as they are bidding against themselves at this point. On the other hand if this is true why hasn’t he accepted the offer yet ?
Just wait til you see that Stanton contract….
I think that is Boston’s best offer if someone wants to come and give the guy more then let them get him. JDM is really a DH waiting to happen I know that Boras looks at him like an Outfielder but he really isn’t anymore and as he gets older it’s only going to get worse for him in the field. If he doesn’t take the offer soon then tell Boras look we need to address one way or the other either take the offer or we need to go another direction and give him a time frame then move on.
If it’s really 5/125 he should be signing already.
Should J.D, Martinez sign a five-year, $125 million contract with the Red Sox if he has a better offer from another team?
If another club has made a better offer should Martinez sign with that team now or wait to see whether the Red Sox will top the best offer?
Better than 5/125 I very much doubt, and this is a Yankee fan saying this.
LOL at the suggestion that I’m a Yankee fan.
Go woeful Seattle Mariners!
“This” being me. I thought that would be obvious withe Red Sox making the offer…
And keep downvoting Yankee haters. 😀
Boras’s camp waiting for a bidding war that never was.
For all we know Scott Boras and J.D. Martinez could be enjoying a bidding war.
Has any report claimed that the Red Sox have made the best offer to date?
Prediction/hope: He’ll sign for 5/132 on Monday.
But what team will sign J.D. Martinez for that amount?
Unless he doesn’t like the city of Boston I truly don’t see why he hasn’t signed yet if this offer is real. He won’t wt any more than this. If a desprate team was going to offer more it would have happened by now too I would think. Goodness this off season has been lame on the free agent front
He’s a good player but he never plays a full season and at $30m per year there should at least be an expectation that you’ll play 150 games a year.
Obviously Boras leaks to Heyman (first time ever!) and DD’s team leaks to Silverman (ditto).
According to WFAN, the Red Sox offered 5/135 or an AAV of $27 million.
There are no other teams that are even in that ballpark to offer him that amount of dollars .. all the big dollar teams either have their OF/lineup set or resetting the cap. Toronto may be in on the action but no where near that price.
Cespedes, $27.5 million AAV. Martinez is just better.
Maybe true – But timing is everything. He might be better but if no one except the Red Sox need him I take the money and run. Ot just go for a one year deal and test the market next year.
Since you’re posting the same bad comparison, trying to say Cespedes’ “bad defense” as a means to justify $27.5M AAV for JD, I’ll give you the same answer:
Cespedes Career Defense in OF (5972 Innings)
+13 DRS, +11.0 UZR
JD Martinez Career Defense in OF (6053 Innings)
-32 DRS, -25.3 UZR
Seems like the Red Sox are betting against themselves for no reason… 25 million annually for a bat only guy is risky… Why they didn’t just try to sign Alex Cobb or (especially) Eric Hosmer makes no sense to me. Those two guys would cost less than Martinez per year and would likely lead to more long term success. Hosmer would push Hanley to DH. Cobb would’ve made them better too… he’s had success in the AL east and the Sox could flip one of their current starters for some prospects.
Why is everyone so high on Eric Hosmer? Sure he’s coming off a career year with a 4.1 WAR but his career WAR numbers are: 1.0, -1.7, 3.2, 0, 3.5, -0.1, 4.1. So would you really trust a guy who seems to struggle every other season with 20 million a year for 7 years?
As for the Red Sox specifically, Moreland’s already signed. The Sox clearly decided a cheap bat and a good glove in the short run were better than possibly being stuck with Hosmer for 7 years.
He consistently wins gold gloves, no injury history and has had at least 93 RBIs the last 3 seasons. And also hits left handed (which could help his power numbers in Boston). Not to mention, only going to cost about 20 million per year as opposed to Martinez who wants 30 million per and is much older.
Totally forgot they signed Moreland though.
I really don’t believe you can put any stock in the Gold Glove argument. In 2013 Homer was 10th in UZR, in 2014 he was 13th, in 2015 11th, and in 2017 he was 12th. Basically a few sports writers some a couple of plays that looked great and others took their word for it. Remember that Rafael Palmiero got a gold glove at first in 1999 despite playing only 28 games at first.
Also, if you can’t make an argument the he was injured then explain why every other year is a down year. Inconsistency is an issue.
As for Martinez versus Hosmer, well let’s accept the idea of 7 yr/$20M for Hosmer and 5 yr/$25M for Martinez. Overall Martinez costs less, his contract ends sooner, and regardless of the age at the start of the contract both end at age 35.
Palmeiro won a GG for playing under 30 games at 1B in 1999.
Oops. Missed Mr. Purple’s exact info above.
Great call on that Palmerio gold glove sham!
Bonds won a GG in a season he led the league in errors.
5 years is fair for a 30 year old oft-injured OF’er with defensive question marks, even one with JDM’s track record. Boston should put a click on it.
If this is true, $125mm over 5 years, then all bets are off the table about collusion among the teams. Perhaps, maybe, there is collusion among the agents to further inflate and already inflated market. No other excuse at this point for any sports agent to work against their clients best interest. And what’s in JD’s best interest is taking $125mm for 5 years to essentially swing a piece of wood and ride the bench the rest of the time. Good grief.
No no no ! I don’t understand how the Red Sox could be so stupid as to get involved with this stiff. JD Drew -> Carl Crawford -> Panda -> Hanley -> JDM. One clown worse than the next. 30mm a year for DH on the wrong side of 30. I give it to the all star break for him to be deemed a bust
And dont forget about that bust David Price signing
I could not agree more. The Sox depleted their farm system to get sale and while he is a really good pitcher, don’t tell him that it’s a high leverage game. Now we are going to have to watch kopech be a dominant pitcher for the other Sox.
The Sox always seem to pay free agents a ton of money and get they disrespect the guys who performed in Boston. Ortiz made under $150m total during his entire career. Never made more than $16m in a single season. Why pay this guy so much when he is oft injured, can’t play defense and older. That’s what they told Ortiz when he wanted fair money.
They don’t know how many offers he has, the other day people were saying Nunez had no offers and it came out he has multiple offers, ownership in baseball has always low balled players for a hundred years. Yeah a few players have gotten fair contracts and through injury or poor play has not lived up to those contracts but none of you are saying that the 99% of the players who take the field this year who are underpaid should get a raise none of you. J.D. should hold out till he gets the offer that he wants from the team he wants. And every other free agent should do the same they earned that right.
How are things at the Boras Corporation?
You must be a small market owner whose mad that you can’t own your players like the good old days
Well then JDM is going to be waiting a long time no one is offering a DH 200 million. It just doesn’t work that way just because you think you are worth more then what the market will bare. If JD gets 5/125 then he will be the highest paid DH ever. He was the worse defensive right fielder in baseball last year according to advanced metrics and he is getting older he is a DH and he needs to accept that.
I don’t think this is a money issue for JD. I am fairly confident he wants to play outfield everyday and the Sox outfield as it stands is set… if the Sox committed to playing jd 3-4 Times a week in left, I see him signing immediately, but the Sox would never do that with the team they have in place. If the Sox trade Bradley, JD will sign. It just doesn’t make any sense to do it either way. He needs to accept he’s purely a hitter and take 25+ mil to be a dh
$100 M over 5 was already an overpay.
JDM is ONLY worth a three year contract and that will be an overpayment. I’d rather the sox go into 2018 as is lineup wise. And supplement at the trading deadline. Let Boras and Martinez swindle another dumb GM/owner.