The Blue Jays have agreed to acquire outfielder Randal Grichuk from the Cardinals, per a Toronto announcement. Righties Dominic Leone and Conner Greene will go to St. Louis in return.
Grichuk becomes the second St. Louis player to move to the Jays via trade this winter, joining infielder Aledmys Diaz. Grichuk also joins Stephen Piscotty as young outfielders who have been swapped out in recent months. This time last year, that trio of departures would have registered as quite a surprise. As things developed, though, those players appeared quite likely to depart.
The Cardinals entered the current offseason determined to upgrade a position-player mix that included quite a few useful pieces but relatively few high-level performers. With the acquisition of Marcell Ozuna, the Cards added a player they feel will take them to the next level. With Dexter Fowler and Tommy Pham also expected to command near-everyday time, the move for Ozuna left Grichuk and Piscotty without obvious roles.
Grichuk turned in a highly promising 2015 season, racking up 17 home runs and a .276/.329/.548 slash in 350 plate appearances. Even then, though, there were some signs of worry — in particular, a 110:22 K/BB ratio.
Since that effort, Grichuk has faded. The right-handed-hitting outfielder is still putting the ball out of the yard at a strong rate. But he has only a .287 on-base percentage and league-average overall offensive output in his 920 plate appearances since the start of the 2016 season.
That said, perhaps there’s still some upside in the bat; he’s still only 26 years of age, after all. And Grichuk continues to provide good value with his glove, generally grading as a slightly above-average performer in center and in the corners. While he’s not much of a stolen-base threat, Grichuk has also rated as a quality overall baserunner.
[RELATED: Updated Blue Jays Depth Chart]
Toronto will pick up three years of control over Grichuk, who’s slated to earn $2.6MM in his first season of arbitration eligibility. He’ll join an outfield mix that already includes a right-handed-hitting center fielder in Kevin Pillar, a corner righty in Steve Pearce, and two left-handed-hitting pieces in Ezequiel Carrera and newly-signed veteran Curtis Granderson. Some platoon matches are to be expected from this group; in that regard, it’s worth noting that Grichuk has carried fairly notable reverse splits in the majors. Of course, it’s still possible the Blue Jays’ outfield unit will undergo some changes before all is said and done.
In return, the Cardinals will add some useful assets. Leone, a 26-year-old righty, has bounced around the league some but is fresh off of an excellent 2017 season. In 70 1/3 innings, he posted a 2.56 ERA with 10.4 K/9 and 2.9 BB/9. He’ll join an increasingly deep relief corps that perhaps will still be boosted by another late-inning arm.
[RELATED: Updated Cardinals Depth Chart]
Leone has had similar success previously — in his 2014 debut with the Mariners — but struggled notably in the ensuing two seasons. All said, though, there’s plenty of reason to think he’ll continue to represent a quality asset. In 2017, he delivered his average fastball at 94.9 mph, recorded a personal-high 14.5% swinging-strike rate, and tamped down on the homers that had come to plague him.
Better still, the cutter-heavy Leone was equally effective against both righty (.208/.267/.357) and lefty (.181/.261/.366) hitters. The Cards will have the ability to control him for four more seasons. Leone reached arbitration as a Super Two, agreeing earlier this winter to a $1.085MM salary for the 2018 season.
Greene is a notable part of the deal as well. Still just 22 years of age, Greene has long been credited with interesting tools. He is said to possess a big heater, quality change, and useful slider. That said, there’s still quite a bit of polish needed and questions persist as to whether Greene will make it as a starter.
Last year, Greene struggled to a 5.29 ERA in his 132 2/3 innings at Double-A, managing only 6.2 K/9 against 5.6 BB/9 on the year. That showing obviously did not help his stock. Still, the Jays placed him on the 40-man roster at the end of the season in order to protect him from the Rule 5 draft.
It seems reasonable to expect that Greene will be given another chance to work out the kinks as a starter in the upper minor. But he might also take up a place on the Cards’ relief depth chart.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images.
Again a team going for trades over Free Agents. Not good news for LoCain
Why? Corner outfielder vs a center fielder
These free agent prices are way too high. I doubt any will be signed until their heads come back down from the clouds
Randall Is a center fielder too. And Pillar is pretty entrenched there
Grichuk is better in the corners! I think he’ll start in RF.
I’d have to think this latest move, taken in conjunction with their previous moves, puts the Jays completely out of contention for Cain. Toronto now has 7 outfielders for 3 positions.
It would seem another trade may not be far off.
Cain’s market wasn’t huge to begin with, but these recent trades have basically turned it to dust. He may end up returning to KC.
wasn’t Cain saddled with draft pick compensation too?
Good to see ownership and gms across the game stop over paying guys for past performance. No reason to pay these 30 year olds 20+ MM per yr for 7+ yrs. hopefully this will create an opportunity for teams operating in smaller markets to sign good players at a more affordable rate.
Pretty much every player hitting free agency is 30. Any player hitting FA under 30 is either not very good, or will cost you way more $20 million a year.
A 30-year-old free agent could still deserve 20+M a year, just do it over 4-5 years (maybe with a additional year via team option) rather than 7+ years.
Wait til next off season, the over paying will return.
He’s a much different player than Cain
This move might be good for Cain – this takes a potential CF off the market.
Uhhhh say what?
Oh boy
Im cool with this
Agreed
+1
I like it too. Leone is immediate bullpen depth. Greene has chances of panning out higher, or might become part of a future trade.
If you guys get the Leone we saw in 2017 in Toronto, you’re going to like him a bunch.
By the end of the season we were calling him “Dominant Leone”.
My wife is not happy. Grichuk was her favorite. He’s got more upside if he can control strike zone. Big pop in his bat.
I have bad news for you buddy… The reason your wife has Grichuk as her favorite doesn’t have anything to do with his “upside if he can control the strike zone”.
Nope, only the “big pop in his bat.”
Good move if you need a back up
Wow, Leone is a nice piece coming back for St. Louis. Another nice arm in the ‘pen!
Leone had a solid year last year but I’m not sold that a .266 BABIP is sustainable.
If he continues to get 17% line drive rates, a .266 babip should be expected
Maybe. The Jays got him on waivers in 2017. His season last year looks awfully fluky to me.
Brad Hand was claimed on waivers. What’s your point?
It’s also not uncommon for players to have a breakout year in their third full season in the Majors.
Connor Greene. Former Jays GM AA’s little crush is traded.
he was mad about being a back up in st louis now hes going to to toronto to be a backup
He’s not gonna be a back up on paper right now he’s a starter he’s taking over Bautista
He will play himself into a backup…la whiff
he’ll play right is my guess
I really doubt they play him in right. He had absolutely no arm even before he was having arm troubles. My guess is he’ll play LF and DH some.
He wasn’t mad actually. He publicly said the other OF’s deserved to play over him bc of the years they had last year (Pham, Ozuna and Fowler). That being said, I’ve been praying the Cards would trade him. He strikes out 200x a year as a starter. He’ll hit 25 HR’s but off the bench you gotta make contact.
He was mad. Did actually read what he said?
Well, he was mad at himself, but he fully understood the Cardinals’ decision to bench him.
200x a year… well he’ll fit right in with the jays + the AL East.
Leone is STL’s new closer!
Lol. Not any worse than Gregerson.
Stove went from 100 degrees to 101.
More like 85 to 86. It is still a cold stove.
for a stove that’s pretty cold
But then again I’m not very bright so what would I know.
…and that’s in Kelvin
Good for both sides
….and there is our left handed power bat who bats right. Leone was solid in the bullpen. Hope they use the remaining 15M on a decent pitcher now and move Biagini back to the pen.
Aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhh! Was looking to see grichuk in a cards uniform for 1 more game!
I loved Leone! Sad to see him go!
Needed a left bat ?
Thats a good return for StL
Yeah, for a guy who’s a backup OF. Agree.
This seems like a weird trade. Do the Jays really need yet another OF? I could see acquiring someone like Cain who would definitely be an improvement over any of the in-house options, but Grichuk seems like just another questionable guy with some potential upside to throw on the pile.
Fingers crossed this means they ship Pillar while he still has some semblance of value. As soon as that D degrades with age he becomes a blackhole of production.
I won’t be surprised if that happens.
I was thinking the same. Could be the end of pillar.
Couldn’t agree more. The defence is god like but his bat holds the team down. If they can sell high on his D (Giants maybe?) they should. If they can add an arm or two in the deal that would be ideal.
Pillar to SF. Cheap, controllable, great D, and helps them stay under the luxury tax
Who knows what the Jays are doing? Someone tell me. they trade for a backup OF giving up one excellent pen arm and another high ceiling pen prospect.? Huh?
Fire Atkins now.
Maybe they’re trying an outfield version of the Dodgers’ starting pitching strategy in recent years?
Pillar-Grichuk-Hernandez with Ganderson on the bench? Pearce seems to be the fifth wheel
Hernandez is going back to AAA to work in the K’s. Grichuk will take his place on the roster because he can replace Hernandez’s K’s.
Hernandez can platoon with Grandy or Grichuk. Bats Right. E. Cabrera and Pearce are on the bubble with Solarte able to play the OF if needed. Or Hernandez starts the season in AAA.
I’m thinking Hernandez starts in AAA this season. Pearce IMO looks like the odd man out…unless they can find a taker for Morales. The depth chart currently has Devon Travis playing second in AAA…makes no sense!
Travis can’t stay healthy, therefore Solarte and Diaz. Tulo will be on the DL before opening day
Jays make no sense. This team may start well in 2018, but by the all-star break they’ll be out of it.
that premise totally depends on the health of our starters.
imo
Last year in [Dec 2016] I called the Blue Jays starting rotation as terrible for 2017. In these pages I said that Happ and Estrada would signifcantly regress and they did. I said Stroman would be Stroman.
This year I have been saying similar. Happ will regress more than last year. Estrada will likely only get 10-15 starts with his back. Sanchez finger issues are not resolved, if what I am being told is correct. That leaves Stroman to be Stroman again and a mystery 5th starter. They have one good piece in the minors who can start.
No this rotation will end up being a mess [again] and without quality depth, this team is done for 2018. Mat Latos, Casey Lawrence anyone?
#scoutseyes
Estrada’s back was supposed to be putty last year. And where were the Sanchez warnings last year? Selective memory. I recall myself fearing Stroman/Sanchez health last year and having full faith in Smoak. Two outta three ain’t bad but I don’t need to toot my horn in every single jays thread.
Still only a handful of teams that have better pitching situations. I say Happ will not regress more than last year. With zero to back it. See I can do it too. #pitcherseyes
Where are you getting your info on Sanchez. Last I heard he was healthy and throwing again without issue.
Jim … stop commenting and deflate your baseball ego a little bit, there almost isn’t enough room for anyone else on this form
Education yourself before making ridiculously bold statements
You will see that most of these “ridiculously bold statements” about the BlueJays will come true over time, by the 2018 all-star break is my call on these.
Let’s not make it personal, let’s keep it focussed on baseball. Let’s respect everyone right to have an opinion. I lay my opinion’s out there for all to see since 2016 and mostly my comments have been correct.
And yes I have been a MLB bird dog scout for the MLB scouting bureau and for the Minnesota Twins. I still have my Twins recruitment letter.
Regarding Sanchez, Someone slammed me for not calling his finger issues at the end of 2016. That personal slam [of me] seems kinda petty. But for Sanchez, if you check back over the 2017 remarkes in these pages, I called consistently that his finger was not healed and wouldn’t be healed and the 2017 was basically a right off.
Someone asked where I am getting my Sanchez info, good question. As I have said before, I know someone in the room that disagrees with the assessment being fed to the media that the finger is healed. He beleives that the injury will reoccur after a few months of torque on the hand in his delivery. I have no reason to doubt my source as he has always been correct with what he shares with me.
As for Smoak, he had a career year and I and others have written and said, it is doubtful that he can repeat. His 2nd half last year was in decline as has been his 2nd halves in most years. Let’s see if he gets off to a good start. Let’s see if last year was a one year thing, let’s see if my suggestion to trade him and go full rebuild for the Jays last year at the 2017 deadline was the right call. #Scoutseyes
Be nice. Be professional.
@jimmertree
Be nice? Be professional? You speak as tho it’s gospel. Here’s my take. It’s easy to say Estrada will miss a bunch of starts because of his back it’s been an ongoing issue since he’s been a Jay! My take is if he commands his fastball he will have a good season if not he won’t! Happ has lost nothing on his fastball so far so why do you say he will struggle? He had been a durable starter for years and rebounded well last for a team that couldn’t hit. Maybe Sanchez will have blister/finger issues but no offense I won’t take your word for it. It just seems you are cherry picking issues that are easy to see. Pitching from year to year is hard to predict. Personally I think the staff will rebound from a disastrous campaign last year. As for Smoak? Come on man! If Smoak hits 250-260 with 30 bombs I’d be ecstatic! Now if you were to predict Donaldson was going to hit .230 with 20 bombs or better yet if you would have predicted Bautista was going to have the season he had last year your views may be more believable
Thanks for the good reply. To explain my views and answer some of your questions…
My scouting eye sees Estrada getting only 10-15 starts this year because of the back. Happ regressed last year from 195 innings to 145. He is old. His fastball movement is down. He will regress further.
As for Smoak I agree with you and .250 with 30 bombs would be amazing. Let’s see if he can do it. A source told me he was in off season counselling and on Adderall [a MLB lelgal amphetamine] last year. Davis was on it too prior to his big contract with the O’s. The Tor star says Adderall is the PED of choice these days in MLB. which means anything can happen with Smoak this year.
Donaldson is a superstar but older and injury prone. He can carry a team. I say trade him now if possible for a haul.
As for Bautista, if anyone recalls, he started last year well below the mendoza line[.200 BA] and I indiciated in these pages last year that it would take Bautista approx 30% of the season [50 games or so] to figure it out and be at .220 with good number of bombs. I wasn’t far off. #scoutseyes
@jimmertree
I don’t about other bloggers here but you just sound like a blow hard! Want to knock my team I’ll be there to knock you down a bit. With all your sources and baseball knowledge why are you on here? Why because no one really cares about your opinion! Jays can trade all their prospects as you suggest and hope to win the wildcard or they can be creative which they’ve been without selling the farm. Your an armchair GM who does nothing but criticize the Jays! Find another team to criticize
#BULLSHITEYES #LIARSEYES You are not a scout
and never was or will be! I call BS! On another post, you said it was with the Braves
and now it’s the Twins! Plus you were never a AAA manager either! You a lying idiot!
Meanwhile, Yelich gets madder and madder.
Oh, he’ll be downright hostile by ST.
He may go postal on opening day.
He’ll be frothing by the ASG.
He’ll be cutting up team jerseys with Chris Sale by the trade deadline
This is why I love the internet
Hahahaha
I really wanna make a pun about how much he would yell, but I know it would be bad so I won’t
Thank you wiggfsf for not making up one.
Interesting, but it made perfect sense since Grichie wouldn’t have gotten much playing time. Ill be sure to research these arms, I’m not familiar with them
as far as i can tell leone could close and greene is hot hot garbage
Greene is a AA arm with some potential. Leone is a tough loss for Toronto, a good and inexpensive bullpen arm who could be counted on in high leverage innings.
Agreed. Greene has a nice fastball and has been playing against older competition. Him going to the cards system is gonna help his development.
Cards have a long history of turning blue jays left overs into solid gold.
The off season is burning hot now !!!
I wonder if this means they are trading Pillar?
Who fills Leone’s role?
Loved Leone last year in his one year here with us. Sad to see him go. Hope things go well for Greene but I ultimately think that he’ll end up as a reliever and a potential good one at that.
Yea Leone had a great year. I honestly think he outperformed his real value but good luck to him,
Agreed. If the Cards can help hone Greene’s slider, he has late-inning reliever written all over him with that triple digit heater. Leone’s no slouch either.
An unspectacular but solid trade for both teams.
Damn Leone was a big part of the bullpen last year. I hope he remains Dominant Leone in St. Louis
Anyone know what kind of pitching stuff Leone features?
He’s got a great arm. Throws a really nice cutter and his fastball in general has solid movement to it. His off speed stuff isn’t anything special in my eyes but it plays well off the fastball.
Leone can be very dominant. The only time he wasn’t was when Gibby overused him and he got hit. If Leone shows up in St Louis like he did in Toronto, Card’s fans are going to love him.
With Greene’s heater and huge upside, this trade is very puzzling on the Jays side of things. I am happy they obtained another OF’d, that makes 7 outfielders on the roster. Sarcasm heavy.
Jays are short now 2 starters [Estrada back problems, Snachez finger problems and no real 5th starter yet] and 2 [dominant] releivers. [Lefty need and Leone gone]
Some fire Atkins now.
Okay, I’m completely happy with the offseason if this is the last move the Cardinals make and they just let the rest of the roster play out and re-evaluate in May.
I still think Cards need either a lefty starter or a more established closer. Also a bigger bat to take over either 1B or 3B would help as well .
Lefty starters are highly overrated. The Cardinals themselves have an extended history of success with all right-handed rotations (last year being the exception).
The corner infield is already covered nicely by Carpenter (who was playing hurt last year) and Gyorko. None of the free agents out there would even be an overall upgrade over those two.
Agreed on the closer, though.
I disagree on the lefty starter! Cuz a team can load up on lefty hitters during a series when they know they are getting all righties ! Carpenter was hurt
last year
and I think he should be a DH somewhere! LoL! I think they should improve the defense at 1B
and 3B. But they won’t spend the money. Plus we do need a closer
Maybe we’ll get a left-handed-hitting third baseman once “low-hanging fruit” season opens. 😉
I’m starting to doubt if we are getting anybody else!
For what the Jays gave up they better be playing him pretty much everyday. Grichuk/Pillar/Granderson is better than what they were marching out last year.
True. Better defensively, better with the bat and better running the bases. Ross Atkins hasn’t made the big splash but his moves have all been good one so far this offseason.
They have all been low risk and typically cheap moves by “Shatkins”, but they are improved some and certainly have better depth. If they could get rid of Morales and Pearce and replace them with SP with the payroll space they have remaining plus what they can save on those two, there may be some hope for a WC. They would have to eat some contract on those two though
Yeah MO way to keep to fan base excited….. NOT
Well, I like this move A LOT for the Cardinals.
It’s crazy if the reported offer to jd is true and he is scoffing at it. I’m with the gms and them being frugal. FA is getting out of control
last time St Louis sent an outfielder to Toronto it worked out pretty good. plus this is good for Toronto in the checkbook.
Cardinals mastering the art of selling low.
Would have made a lot more sense to trade Grichuk two years ago, Diaz a year ago. Piscotty a year or two ago, whenever his value was high.
Obviously the possibility of capitalizing on those guys’ peaks (or at least peaks thus far) is past but heck they could have tried to sell high on Pham or Gyorko and not bought high on Ozuna and not sold low on those three guys that they just traded.
Buying high and selling low just doesn’t make a lot of sense and seems pretty desperate.
Would’ve made a lot more sense to sell Diaz when he was rookie and looked to be SS of the future?
I don’t think Grichuk’s value has ever been particularly high and if Leone matches his 2017 season, I love this deal.
I’d be curious as to what Pham’s trade value is. I have fear that he’s another Ryan Ludwick, but I imagine other people in baseball have the same fear.
You don’t get rid of the younger
and cheaper players while they are performing . That’s not how you run a team.
And I wish I would have bought Bitcoin a year ago and Amazon stock in 1998…
You need to be very far away from any MLB front office.
Just goes to show how quickly some hot prospects turn into suspects or very average MLB players after debuting in the big leagues. Prospects like Stephen Piscotty would have headlined a major trade in the past couple of years.
In addition to the Cardinals there are a few Cub prospects who haven’t quite panned out as hoped including Jorge Soler, Kyle Schwarber and perhaps even Javier Baez and Addison Russell. Still plenty of time on those last three, especially Baez and Russell who can pick it defensively. Schwarber has reportedly slimmed down this offseason which will hopefully help his defensive range in LF. I still believe he will ultimately wind up as a stud AL DH who can fill in as an extra outfielder occasionally.
From the White Sox perspective, this deal takes the Blue Jays out any potential deal involving Avisail Garcia who was said to be a target of Toronto this offseason. The high price set by Rick Hahn makes it unlikely Garcia or Jose Abreu will be wearing a different uniform before the summer trade deadline. Garcia might be the more likely of the two to depart, especially with the White Sox deep in outfield prospects that include Eloy Jimenez who stands a good chance of making his MLB debut later this summer.
Good point
Here we go. I don’t know what they are doing. Shapiro and Atkins need to understand that in order to see dividends you must invest. Go and get someone to help Donaldson. Get a starting pitcher. The Jays have one of the best fan base ever and this is how they pay then back. Quick being so cheap and expend some money.
They are already invested. The Jays have one of the top 15 payrolls in baseball. It’s also not Shapiro and Atkins choice how much money they have to spend, it’s Rogers. They literally just did get someone to “help Donaldson”. They’ve now added Solarte, Granderson and Grichuk who are all relatively cheap and didn’t cost too much in the way of prospects (and fill major needs). If you don’t think the Jays are going to get another starter with the remaining 12.5 million they have to spend, you’re kidding yourself. You are overall ridiculous man. Just finding reasons to complain.
Rogers could still increase payroll if the right deal comes along. Or they can take it on at the trade deadline in there is still hope…
Thanks for the reply. Is not being ridiculous is the the Jays are in the American League east and they have to compete with the Yanks and the Sox. They have to go all out this year, since this could be Donaldson last year. Additionally, the need to show the fans that they want to compete.
Jast25, you are right-on. There is no way the Jays compete with the pitching staff that they are going to run out there this year. Plus Diaz, Granderson and Grichuk are just inexpensive pieces, not core players.
They need a #1, #3, Lefty pen guy, righty pen guy, 40% catcher, and a new SS. Perhaps the pieces plus Pearce, Hernandez, Solarte and Carrera can all combine to play a passable of RF/LF.
Yeesh. I hope bigger trades or free agent signings are following for the Jays prior to the start of the 2018 season.
Jast the jays window was 2013-2016 it’s gone. The jays don’t need to go all in this year when they aren’t going to be the Red Sox or the Yankees even if they do go all in. Making decisions like that is why the Toronto maple leafs haven’t won a cup in your lifetime probably
Like every other team has done?
*The Jays have one of the most fickle, fair-weather, baseball illiterate fan bases ever
There, fixed that for you.
They had the 5th highest payroll in baseball last year lol.
This “Rogers is cheap” narrative really needs to end.
Cardinals fleeced the Jays here.
How so?
Gruichuk has very little value. Not to mention the Cards turned an unhappy bench player into two controllable young pitching arms. One who has the potential to be a solid 3/4 starter and at worst, a setup reliever.
Yup, Jays got fleeced bigtime. #scoutseyes
how many times do I gotta tell you that you aren’t a scout. Quit playing pretend and get back to reality
People like you are the reason I left Facebook.
#BULLSHITEYES
If Leone repeats last season, they sure did. Grichuk Ks All. The. Time.
He almost certainly won’t. His background and 2017 deep stats just scream fluke season.
.266 BABIP
what stats are you referring to? He had a 2.94 FIP in a homerun park. Thats pretty solid.
Yes, and Grichuk has potential for 30+ home runs in the AL East at a bargain price. So saying the Jays got “fleeced” is a little premature.
Saying the deal wasn’t a steal for the Cards is a premature also. They essentially converted an unhappy bench player for them for two young controllable arms. I don’t think Greene will stick as a starter, but he’s going to be a great bullpen arm. Leone is going to contribute next season as well. Pitching wins championship, not home runs. Not taking away anything from Gruichuk, but he’s going to run into great pitching in the AL East so hitting 30 is easier said than done.
Grichuk is 26. Hes moving to a division of small ballparks, and the ball flies in Toronto. Like this move for the Jays.
A lot better pitching in the AL East than what Grichuk was facing in the NL Central . I don’t know how Jays ballpark compares to the Cards though!
I, for one, liked Grichuk. Yes, he fanned a lot, but: he possesses elite power; is a good defender; and can run. Ozuna had a breakout year after 3 or 4 OK seasons. I hope Grichuk has his breakout season this year. I wish him the best. If he does blossom, I’m glad he’ll be doing it in the AL! In any case, I’ll be following him. Good luck Randall and thank you for providing some thrills. Now go get ‘em!
Greene does have time to turn it around, but his control needs a ton of work, and needs a secondary pitch.
Yes, he has a triple digit fastball, but even in AA hitters were squaring up on it at a concerning rate as it has zero movement.
Okay, so have they buttered up the Jays enough to get Donaldson? haha
Jays can’t decide to contend or rebuild.. JD will be on market come June/July. Mo shuld pounce then.
> Jays can’t decide to contend or rebuild
Seems to me they’re acquiring MLB depth not just for this year but going forward. They could have got more Grandersons: old, one-year placeholders while they wait and see what happens with Donaldson. Instead, in Diaz, Solarte and Grichuk, they got younger, above-average backups who are also solid league-average starters (compare with the outgoing Goins, Barney and Bautista)..
Grichuk is not Lorenzo Cain, but I don’t want Cain’s contract. The Jays haven’t got a star this offseason, but they have raised the floor of their MLB talent. The team is better now than 2017. and has strong depth going forward.
I agree with most of this, but I will add that it depends on what Cain’s contract turns out to be. If you can get him for 4 years at $70M or less then I’d think it’s a move worth making.
That said, I imagine the Jays are going to be focused on pitching from here on out.
But also, the Jays would be giving up a pick if they sign Cain which for that reason I can’t see them signing him.
Yeah. I have to think that this is definitely one of the big stocking points for the Jays. The current FO does not like giving up draft picks.
*crickets…
If i was a betting man…. Money says another move to be announced in the near future. Pillar?
Not if they’re competing and not blowing things up. More likely they’ll dump someone like Pearce, or package some of the kids, or possibly try and sell high on Smoak and move Pearce to first (although good luck trading a 1B these days).
Giants might be interested.
Cold stove, real cold stove
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I’m still LOL over the cubs downward spiral. They certainly did worse last year and did nothing to improve on that.
I was really hoping Atl would have found a way to get Grichuk. I think this is a good move for Toronto. That is if Grichuk is just a guy that needed a change of scenery….and not just the guy drafted before Trout.
Personally thought grichuk was going to jays as part of a donaldson deal. Perhaps as someone mentioned, it’s a good faith move. Like the deal for both teams. Bp help and prospect with some upside for cards and if grichuk can hit .260 with a .315 obp even, he’ll have 25-30 HR with solid defense in OF for jays. Maybe I’m still high on grichuk, butwhen he makes contact its xbs all day and it’s fun to watch
It sure seems like every thing has slid downhill since the Cardinals signed Ozuna. There has been a lot of well known Cardinals names leave the Cardinals over the past 2 off seasons. Only Fowler and Ozuna are recognizable names the Cardinals obtained in that same span. After Mozeliak states the Cardinals were going to be very active this winter and was looking to add a power bat (maybe 2 power bats), a Starting Pitcher and a front line dominate closer. They added Ozuna…..But lies about the rest!!! This Cardinals fan’s stomach is churning. I’m accustom to them saying they have the money and resources to do some big things. Then….. instead of acquiring one strong, dependable player, they go for low Fruit in quantity amounts instead of putting all of that wasted contract money into one basket for another star player. Add up the salaries for these low hanging fruit acquisitions such as Cecil, Gregerson, and any others besides Fowler (who is also over paid though) and Ozuna, who the Cardinals have traded for or signed in free agency in the last couple of years. All of those salaries combined would fund a nice 2-3 year contract player for a star player. Help me, who all have left the club over the past 2-3 years. Matt Holiday, Grichuk, Piscoty, Lynn, Matt Adams, Daniel Delcalco, John Jay, Alexis Diaz, Mike Leake, Shelby Miller, Seivers, Oh, Rosenthal, M. Sierra, etc., etc., etc. that’s just the tip of the ice berg. Sure picked up Ozuna, but could have traded all of those players for on valued everyday starter such as Abreau from the White Sox. If DeWill is correct, and this is all they are going to do, then it’s another year of not making the playoffs!!! Someone…..please see the light and bring in more quality players
They won 100 games in 2015 and were gassed at the end, bowing out of the playoffs. What have they done with that group of players that you’re bemoaning since then?
What? Except for Lynn and maybe John Jay (for whom we got the better Gyorko), none of the departed players you listed are good players..
Yup up here in Toronto, I always figured the cards were one of the model organizations in all of baseball.
Other than overpaying for Cecil what’s there to really complain about.
Did you not watch Sierra play last year? He should have never went back to the minors. The offense was clicking with him leading off. I would also like to say that Diaz is a question because lots of players have sophomore slumps. Heck DeJong might have a bad year while Diaz picks up where he left off in 2016. I think the cards should have held onto Diaz until the trade deadline just in case, but that’s just me. I love landing Ozuna, but honestly I would have rather given up a different outfield prospect and pitching prospect for him. Such as Hudson and O’neil or even Bader. Alcantara has nasty stuff and the ideal power pitching frame. He just needed to hone his control which he seemed to progress on in the Arizona Fall League. Sierra is what the cardinals have been missing for years a true lead off hitter who could steal bases, create havoc and spark the offense. Yeah I know people love O’neil and his power, but the dude will strike out 40% of the time on mlb pitching and as we all saw striking out a ton was grichuks ultimate downfall. That’s why I would have shipped him off over Sierra. So, I’m not totally disagreeing with you, but I have to disagree somewhat with your statement.
Small sample
“…could have traded all of those players for on valued everyday starter…”
Well no. Let me put it this way: would you trade a one dollar bill for 100 pennies?
> instead of acquiring one strong, dependable player, they go for low Fruit
They got Fowler in 2017 and Ozuna in 2018 and you are complaining???
Toronto fans are laughing at you.
…or grinding their teeth since we definitely could’ve used both of those players.
Nowhere in this rambling incoherent statement did you make any sense whatsoever. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to your statement. I award you no points. May god have mercy on your soul.
Cardinals17! Please change your name cuz you know NOTHING about baseball
and you are making real Cards fans look bad!
Solid move. Sucks losing a good bullpen guy but we all now how bullpen arms fluctuate greatly and consistency is far from guaranteed.
Buying a high upside young outfielder on the low point of his value for a reliever without real shutdown stuff riding at his highest value seems like a good trade off.
High upside? He’s 26 he’s literally a RH verison of Colby Rasmus but only Rasmus of old would have fit better given the jays lineup is all RH basically.
Well, he isn’t a head case like Rasmus so ultimately that could be a plus for you.
This is good now Harrison Bader is not blocked, a very similar player to Grichuk with a slightly lower ceiling, but some cards fans had given up on Grichuk’s ceiling ever being reached. The bullpen was so suspect but with this move, and anticipating either Reyes or Wainwright ends up in the pen also, it is looking decent. Now the team can wait to see if Gyorko and Carpenter are killing it and if not, you can look for a corner infielder midseason when perhaps the orioles or other losing teams are feeling more reasonable.
Still think Jose Martinez needs to start at 1st, Carp at 3rd.
Totally agree with jo daddy…and I believe it will happen. Unless Martinez comes out cold on hitting which I don’t think he will…Martinez is the reason the cardinals will not do anything else on the offensive side…they will wait and see what he can do…if he hits like he did in the second half when he got playing time he will hit 30 hr and bat 300
The Cards are talking about wanting Voit to win the 1B job in ST!
Grichuk goes from one crowded outfield to another- saving grace is that there’s also a need for ab’s for the DH slot – Granderson might get these opportunities. Always thought Grichuk would be a good CF option for the Giants.
Maybe Pillar goes to the Giants now?
They have already announced Grichuk will be in the OF everyday however across all 3 positions.
Definite win on the Cardinals side they gave up a bench player for a very good relief pitcher and Greene a pitcher who can reach triple digits.
As a cubs fan… cards are making some moves. They got some decent pieces for guys that were bench fodder. They still need a closer. Maybe a SP. but clothes sing the gap with cubs.
I will have to agree with Big John!
I wonder what we’d have to do to get rid of Morales now?? Grichuck-Pillar-Hernandez is an athletic outfield, grandy could spell them out and DH, Pearce can play corner OF and 1b plus DH.
I respect Morales’ bat but the lack of any positional flexibility really hurts the roster.
Only way to do it would be to package him with a prospect or two. I could see a trade with the White Sox. Expectations back would depend on the quality of the prospects.
> Grichuck-Pillar-Hernandez is an athletic outfield
Everything you wrote is dead-on correct. If we could deal one of Pearce/Morales, the 25-man would be much more flexible and athletic positionally. If Grichuk could improve his reverse split, Granderson could grab 300+ AB at DH. Feelings might get hurt, but at this moment, Pearce/Morales are — by far — the worst players on the projected MLB roster. Even if the Jays ate all the money in a trade, that still could make the team better. It will have to be Pearce, as he has an expiring contract and can sorta kinda backup at two positions. Morales, even for free, is just a bat with no baserunning ability. He was incredible against LHP in 2017, so he would match well with Granderson. But the Jays will let Morales be the fulltime DH in April, as a sign of good faith in giving him three years. However, if he can’t hit RHP after a month, give those AB to Granderson.
Morales was such a desperate signing for not getting EE. What a waste!
There is only one scenario that would make this trade decent for the Jays. They traded arguably their best RP after Osuna for Grichuk, giving them Pearce, Carrera, Pillar, Granderson and now Grichuk (and you can forget about Hernandez, Alford or Pompey now)., creating a hole in the bullpen that they didn’t need. The only solution is to trade one of the OF, hopefully Pearce, for some passable major league relief help. Carrera, Pillar, Granderson and Grichuk can all play all of the OF positions (with varying degrees of reliability); Pearce can’t. Grichuk, is younger, cheaper, and has similar numbers (a bit more power, a bit less AVG) to Pearce. Between this trade and a trade of Pearce for RP help, you’d save about $5 million minus the salary of the pitcher you get back. That money can be used to sign a Cobb, push Biagini to the bullpen, and voila, better team.
If they can’t do that, this trade makes absolutely no sense.
They could also trade Morales and shift Pearce to DH, then they’d save even more money.
The first 5 words of that sentence is where your idea falls apart
LOL. Who in the blue hell is trading for Morales? we should trade Morakes they say he sucks! He can’t run he can’t field he’s only a DH! Yeah you just listed all the reasons why he’s impossible to trade unless you package him with good prospects in which case just keep him. Nobody in baseball is taking on money people they certainly aren’t taking on one of the worst mlb regulars last year according to war without the jays giving up a good prospect.
Maybe as a backup 1B
and DH for the Rays?
> you’d save about $5 million
You can’t trade Pearce or Morales without eating most of the money or taking back a bad contract.
Risk in both pitchers coming back but still a solid return for a grichuk who had no chance of helping you. Don’t really understand the motive for jays I think they must be high on him and hope whoever got a hold of Joey bats can get a hold of grichuk. Wouldn’t be surprised to see him improve but wouldn’t hold my breath either.
Yeah, that’s exactly what I said. The Jays now have 8 guys for the 3 + 1 outfield positions. Assuming Pillar stays the starter in CF some combinations of Grichuk, Granderson, Pearce, Carerra, Hernandez, Alford, and Pompey are competing for the two corners and the 4th OF spot.
I guess this means Alford, Pompey, and Hernandez are all headed to the minors, and, I don’t know, do they just cut Carrera? Seems weird since they just signed him, but he is definitely the weakest of the bunch.
Confusing or wut?
Pearce is a butcher in the OF. Pompey is a AAA player not a MLB level player unless he is stealing bases. Alford is gonna be very good. Hernandez will hit but he can’t run routes well [yet?]. Grichuk is Mr. K and has a minus arm but can pop a few long balls.
Cererra is passable defensively and can run the bases and is a great guy. Pillar is very good to elite defensively and a solid 7 in the batting order. Pillar still has upside in his batting average and OPS.
Makes me wonder how Ross Atkins got the job. Jays professional scouting needs a new boss. #Scoutseyes
#youRnotAscout
#BULLSHITEYES
He’s a much different player than Cain
I remember when Cardinals fans claimed that Grichuk and Piscotty were “the future” after one decent year or so haha that worked out well. Pham will be next.
I still think Piscotty will be good. Wasn’t ever too big on Grichuk… Pham and Martinez are risky.
Agreed playa. Good thing for birds is 5 of their top 10ish prospects are OF’s and most are in AA or AAA knocking on said door
Pham is real deal, just look at his workouts… 🙂
Neither of those two have ever hit anywhere close to Pham’s number throughout his career. Phams issue has been crazy injuries in the minors & a Mgr who apparently favors the elders. Running into CF wall out for year. Broke leg in OF collision if I remember correct. Out for a year.
I can see the jays trading off Pillar now, and as sad as I’d be to see him go, the guy can’t hit. He would be great in San Francisco since they are in need of a CF. I wouldn’t mind seeing belt in Toronto but his contract is an overpay. It’ll probably be Pillar for a reliever
This is eerily similar to the comment I just made, including the Pillar love. It’s tough to say what value teams would put on Pillar. On the one hand he’s one of the 5 or so best defensive OF in baseball, and has averaged over 3 fWAR a season the last 3 years, but on the other hand a lot of that value came from his defense, which teams don’t pay as much for, and he is approaching 30.
I think he’d likely bring back more than just an RP, unless you meant a particularly good RP, but… yeah, he’s a player that’s really hard to put a specific value on. He’s generally struck me as a player that is more valuable to have than what any team would pay to get him.
The giants are in win now mode so I don’t see them giving a good reliever like a Strickland for him but with pillars low price tag ya never know who they might give up to try and get under the luxury tax. I think the writing is on the wall that Pillar won’t be a jay come opening day.
I would rather have Smoak than Belt. Hasn’t Belt had 5 or 6 concussions now? Coming to artificial turf…no thanks.
I think Belt would do well in Toronto, and they are in need of LH bats. But his salary is too much in my opinion. I’d send Pillar and morales to SF if the giants ate some of the salary but they won’t do that if they plan to get under the luxury tax
SF has no DH. So why on earth would they trade for a completely useless, overpriced designated hitter that they have no use for, while also going over the luxury tax?
On the other hand, I would love to see Pillar in AT&T park on a regular basis.
Pillar for Strickland would make my blue jays underoos moist.
Belt is a better player then Pillar. You would need a prospect included.
Better player is debatable. What isn’t is that Belt is owed a lot more money. Money = prospects.
Explain how Pillar is better then Belt.
I didn’t say Pillar was better, I said it could at least be debated how they stack up to each other in terms of value. What can’t be debated is their contracts. Even if we agreed that Belt provides more value, his richer contract fully negates that and then some.
A really surprising twist to all this would be if the Jays now traded Pillar (a player I love btw) to say the SFG and signed Cain. The Jays offence would suddenly look a lot different with three 20+ home run bats in the OF.
Small chance but this is just what I’m hoping for. Package Pillar, SRF, Harris or whoever else it would take to snag Archer. Sign Cain.
The Rays will almost certainly not trade Archer within the division
I don’t think the Jays would meet their demands, but if it’s the best offer, the Rays would certainly trade within the division.
Why would the Giants sign Cain?
Not sure what you mean. They wouldn’t. They apparently want to stay under the luxury tax and there is simply no way they can do that if they sign Cain since they’re currently only about $5M below that line. Pillar they could fit under the tax threshold since he’s paid only $3.25M this year but Cain is likely to cost $15M+.
The giants are set on Duggar as their CF. And they want to keep those draft picks. So, why would they want Cain.
Grichuk is overrated. Without facing cub pitching he will hit 210 with 6 home runs and 25 rbis
Bit of an exaggeration don’t ya think
Maybe
Grich and Piscotty both would rot the STL bench…the Cards sent them places where they’d play everyday. I’m happy with the move.
*on the STL bench
These Blue Jays need to add some pitching. No way they’re starting the season with 15 pitchers on their 40 man.
> These Blue Jays need to add some pitching.
Yep. There are only seven relievers on the 40-man at this moment!
Time will show this year that the Jays need a #1 and #3 in the rotation as well. They don’t have depth either. There is one in the minors that can be a #4 starter this year. Plus they need a shut down lefty releiver. This team is far away from competing in 2018.
More trades and free agent signings please. New professional scouting dept too. Or fire Akins.
@jimmertree
Man you have a lot to say! FYI most teams need a #1 starter. Stroman is as close to a #1 as your going to get and he has gotten better each year. Sanchez if he can stay healthy has the upside to be one of the best starters in the AL. Seems to me like your looking for a job. PS Carrera is a terrible base runner! He has some speed but often has base running blunders during the season. And who’s the Jays #4 starter in the minors? Pannone? Borucki? Foley? None of them have pitched even an inning in the majors and you have one of them pencilled in as a #4 starter. I’m a Jays fan so I hope they all turn out to be great but the fact is you seem to think your “opinion” is gospel!?
Cards would trade them plenty of pitching for JD!
I hope the Cardinals did Not get the Dominic Leone we had here in Arizona in 2015 -2016! What a train wreck! A 14.63 ERA in a brief appearance in 2015, then a 6.63 ERA in a fairly sizable sample in 2016. He was awful. We couldn’t wait to jettison him. Hopefully he doesn’t regress all the way back to that? He certainly wore out his welcome in the desert.
Hmm… Come to think of it this trade has a real Colby Rasmus deja vu feel to it doesn’t it…
Cardinal way, step one is to see if the Jays will value their spare parts.
100% Colby deja vu here. Enjoyed Colby but the K’s were too much over time.
So just because the Jays made a trade for Colby years ago, any trade the Jays make with the Cards involving an outfielder means it’s “Colby 2.0” ?
Give this man a scouting role ASAP!
I believe Colby put up a 5 WAR in his second season with the Jays,so I don’t think he was as bad you think he was…
Well with this latest move I’m convinced the Jays now have three outfielders that will put up 3 WAR
…I’m just not sure if it will be each, or combined
Bahahaha, the Jay’s outfield war doesn’t matter with the pitching staff that the Jays will have. Why not sign JD and Cain and Melky too and they’ll be set. Lol. Sarcasm heavy.
Outfield WAR won’t matter for the pitchers? Uhmm..i think it does when it comes to defense.
I don’t get why everyone is so high on Leone. Yes he had a good year, but that was following up 2 REALLY bad years. Aside from the elite relievers, the position is filled with volatility mainly due to the small sample of innings from year to year. He could be good this season, but he could just as easily flop especially in the NL where he had his worst seasons.
I think Kevin Pillar will be on the move to the Giants, possibly for Jarrett Parker and a minor league starter.
Grichuk will be an upgrade over bautista for the jays and Leone looks like the solid reliever the cardinals were looking for. Nice trade
Who isn’t an upgrade on Bautista?
answer: Jose Bautista.
Just being an upgrade on a over the hill, washed up player isn’t enough
“in that regard, it’s worth noting that Grichuk has carried fairly notable reverse splits in the majors”
No, it’s really not worth noting because that’s a misleading and non-predictive anomaly. Individual hitter platoon splits take a very long time to stabilize. Per statistical analysis in The Book, a RH hitter’s platoon splits need to be regressed against 2,200 career PA’s against LH pitching. Grichuk has 423 career PA’s against LH pitchers. https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/estimating-hitter-platoon-skill/
What this means is that for Grichuk we estimate his actual platoon split to be weighted as about 16% ( 423/(423+2200) ) based on his actual career platoon split and 84% based on a league average platoon split for a RH batter (i.e., better against LH pitchers). If we go through that math and Grichuk’s actual career “reverse” platoon split (which is about 13 points of wOBA), our expectation is that he has normal splits but that his split is about 75% as large as is average for a RH hitter.
I will also not, for what it’s worth, that he exhibited normal platoon splits throughout his years in the minors.
This is the kind of garbage offseason the Blue Jays had back in the early 2000’s; signing and trading for players that will take you no higher than fourth place. Old washed up Granderson and Colby Rasmus Jr.
Obviously the team has ZERO interest in competing in 2018, so WHY IS DONALDSON WITH THE TEAM ON A ONE YEAR DEAL????
He needs to be traded now or extended.because his return on trade in July will be much less than now.
These Cleveland clowns running the team need to go.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. You have seen the light. May it be as you have said.
I miss AA.
@Hank Murphy
I hear ya Hank. I’m trying to think of the glass being half full instead of half empty. Fact is we don’t know maybe Atkins tried to trade Donaldson? We need to look at the big picture the return offered may have been underwhelming prompting the Jays front office the other way (resigning Donaldson to a long term deal). Don’t give up on them just yet. I personally think they have improved over last year and the offseason isn’t done yet. If a couple of these guys pan out they will look like geniuses.
This move makes sense for the Cards. He’s basically the same player as Harrison Bader – just older. They both have good power but strike out a lot and can play all 3 outfield spots. Not sure why the Blue Jays gave up Leone to get him. He seems like he could be a useful bullpen piece – maybe even late inning.
The Cards still need a reliable closer though to have a solid pen.
Too bad Jays had to trade Leone. I’m new here, but I recall him being one of the strongest,most reliable releif guys that we had-with a future.I’m learning that this stuff gets complicated. Grichuk must be worth it, Although I believe that Teoscar Hernandez should be starting in right hands down