The Baltimore Orioles are not good. That’s hardly a bold proclamation or a nuanced piece of analysis, but it’s a fact — likely an understated one. The Orioles’ -72 run differential is the worst in Major League Baseball this season. The team has, somehow, scored the second-fewest runs in MLB this year (topping only the Marlins) while simultaneously yielding the second-most runs in the game (trailing only the Rangers). Orioles hitters, as a collective unit, have a .288 OBP. Their pitchers have a 4.95 ERA with metrics (4.61 FIP, 4.40 xFIP) that largely match. If this were a rebuilding club, perhaps that’d be acceptable or at the very least expected. The Orioles, though, spent $76MM in an effort to bolster their rotation in the offseason.
It’s rare to be able to say in early May that a club that planned on contending is effectively eliminated from the playoffs, but that’s the case for the Orioles. Both Fangraphs and Baseball Prospectus list Baltimore’s playoff odds at zero percent. They’re one of two teams, along with the Reds, to hold that distinction. Some fans don’t love postseason odds based on projection systems, though, so let’s present the uphill battle they’re facing in another manner.
In order even to reach the 85-win mark — that was enough for the Twins to sneak into the second Wild Card spot last season — the Orioles would need to go 77-51 through season’s end. (Realistically, it’ll likely take more than 85 wins, but I’ll stick with that for the purposes of this basic exercise.) That 77-51 record would represent a .601 winning percentage. Only three teams in baseball have played above a .600 clip so far in the year, and two of them — the Yankees and Red Sox — are in the Orioles’ division.
In these circumstances, Baltimore should sell off pieces this summer. That much is clear, and it’s seemed nearly inevitable since before the season even began that the O’s would go down that road. Adding Andrew Cashner and Alex Cobb to a poor rotation picture certainly should’ve improved the Orioles somewhat, but it never seemed likely to make them contenders.
As summer approaches, Manny Machado could be the most talked-about trade chip in the game. He’ll be joined by the likes of Zach Britton, Adam Jones and Brad Brach — each of whom is a free agent at season’s end. The O’s will probably also field interest in Darren O’Day. Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic suggested as much earlier today. But there’s little reason for the Orioles to stop there.
Realistically, the O’s aren’t going to get the haul for Machado that many fans would hope. He’s going to be a pure rental, and while he’s an elite hitter who can play two premium positions, he alone will not fetch a franchise-altering return. Machado is a younger player with far more defensive value than J.D. Martinez had last summer, but it’s worth reminding that the best bat on the market last year netted three mid-range prospects — none of whom were even considered to be among the D-backs’ best two or three prospects and none of whom received any top 100 fanfare. Machado will probably fetch one premium prospect and another second- or third-tier piece or two. The ship has sailed on Britton netting an Aroldis Chapman-esque return as well. He wasn’t especially good when he was healthy last season, and he’ll be coming off two major injuries that will have limited him to somewhere around 60 innings dating back to Opening Day 2017. He’s also earning $12MM in 2018.
If the Orioles want to dramatically remake their farm system — and they should want to do just that — then they need to be more willing to part with longer-term assets. Jonathan Schoop, Mychal Givens, Kevin Gausman and even Dylan Bundy should all be firmly in play for teams willing to part with considerable packages of talent.
Schoop is a free agent after the 2019 season, so it may be too late for Baltimore to secure an extension at this juncture. Gausman is controlled through 2020, but the chances of Baltimore competing with the Yankees and Red Sox in 2019-20 looks slim with much of their core departing and a bleak farm system. Givens has reportedly been deemed largely untouchable in trade talks, but three and a half years of a setup man with his penchant for missing bats would command serious interest. O’s fans undoubtedly bristle at the notion of dealing Bundy after years of anticipating his arrival and his signs of a potential breakout early this season, but three-plus years of him would be arguably the most coveted asset available in July if he can maintain a K-BB% in the 21 percent range.
Baltimore’s problems, though, extend beyond the roster at present. Both GM Dan Duquette and manager Buck Showalter are in the final seasons of their respective contracts. Rosenthal and others have reported on the shifting dynamic in the team’s front office, with vice president of baseball operations Brady Anderson said to be taking on greater responsibility and Duquette’s influence fading. Similarly, Lou and John Angelos, sons of owner Peter Angelos, are said to be increasingly involved in operations, with the Angelos sons and Anderson reportedly pushing hard to finalize the signing of Cobb.
Whoever is calling the shots for the O’s, there are multiple organizational philosophies that need an upheaval. Most glaring and baffling is Baltimore’s seeming refusal to spend any money international prospects. Each year, the Orioles routinely trade away their international bonus allotments for fringe prospects and fringe big leaguers. None of those moves have yielded a quality regular to this point, and a large reason that the team’s farm system is in such disrepair is a bizarre decision to sit out one of the primary avenues of amateur talent acquisition.
Beyond that, the Orioles would be wise to actually make use of the Competitive Balance draft selections they receive on an annual basis. In years past, the O’s have befuddled onlookers by using those picks to help them shed small-scale financial obligations to middle relievers. The Orioles effectively sold their pick in 2015 to the Dodgers in exchange for L.A.’s agreement to take the remaining year and $2.75M on Ryan Webb’s contract. A year later, they “sold” their pick to the Braves in order to shed the remaining total of roughly $3MM on Brian Matusz’s contract. In 2014, the O’s traded their Comp Balance pick to the Astros alongside Josh Hader and L.J. Hoes in order to acquire Bud Norris, although that trade at least netted some immediate big league talent.
Bottom line: the O’s have had Competitive Balance picks in each of the past five seasons but have only held onto those selections on two occasions. Norris gave them one strong season in 2014, but they’ve received nothing from the other trades involving picks.
Three years ago on the MLBTR Podcast, Jeff Todd and I discussed how the Reds were in position to rapidly rebuild their farm system by trading not only rental pieces (e.g. Johnny Cueto, Mike Leake) but also several players with additional control remaining. Doing so would’ve meant selling high on assets like Todd Frazier, Jay Bruce and Aroldis Chapman — a tough sell for the fanbase but one that likely would’ve been considerably more beneficial than the route the Reds ultimately took in holding onto those stars and watching their value diminish.
The Orioles find themselves in a similar spot — buried in a strong division with a weak farm system and little in the way of immediate hope for contending in 2019-20. They have several obvious rental pieces to market in July, but by opening themselves up to shipping off other assets with multiple years of control left on the books, they can stockpile a host of near-MLB assets and potentially avoid the style of lengthy, arduous rebuild that’s happening in Cincinnati at the moment. With an aggressive seller’s mentality this July and newfound commitments to both the international prospect market and the amateur draft, the Orioles should be able to establish the type of prospect pipeline they’ve lacked for years.
Padres2019ha
Let’s be honest
baltbirds7
Gee ya think?
TradeAcuna
Braves get it done!
elmore80
Camargo and Wisler for Machado.
fasbal1
The Orioles handling of the Manny Machado situation can be either feast..or famine, trade him now and restock a poor minor league system or get a draft pick. Trade him now for the future, even if you would like to resign him.
bucnole31658
No chance he would resign at all
dorfmac
God we suck.
How can these things be so obvious to us on the outside and so hidden from those who run the team?
cakirby
My guess is Duquette and Showalter want to keep their jobs, and they’re afraid that giving up on the season means they’re gone. Even though it’s the right thing to do, they instead want to hold out hope that out of nowhere they can compete so they have a shot at staying.
xabial
Lol “Keep their jobs” ? Wasn’t one of them trying to get out, but Angelos wouldn’t let them get out, out of their contract?
Christopher_Oriole
Yeah, Duquesne was a couple of years ago, Toronto wanted him.
E munchy
I would have drove him to the airport better yet I would have driven him to Toronto personally.
Polish Hammer
And those two clowns don’t communicate with each other, no wonder they’re in this predicament.
a1544
Why would you label a reliever as untouchable with not only a ball club like this but an organization with no future
jmag043
Brewers should really look at trying to get Machado or Schoop
delete
No one wants to play for the Brewers
migg
Pretty sure they still have 25 guys on their roster.
And at this point it’s not like Machado or Schoop have a no trade clause
driftcat28 2
I mean if they asked then I would play for them. For cheap too
jmag043
Sorry I always forget how nice of a city Baltimore is lol
djtommyaces
Lol!
bucnole31658
Dumb comment seeing they are a playoff contender and just got two big time OF in the off season
walls17
i like this type of content from MLBTR
GabeOfThrones
They’re certainly not stepping out on a huge limb with this article, but it’s still fun to see an “opinion” piece from them. This one is so obvious, that’s it’s borderline a news story that they haven’t arrived at this decision yet. It’s disrespectful to all Orioles fans that the team is run so incompetently. If you run at 40% of the efficacy of other major league clubs (it could be argued they’re even less efficient in every department), their fans should be reimbursed for whatever they pay to see baseball games in a mid-fairly large market. That will never happen, but the least they could and should do is bring in an entirely new baseball ops department, apologize for the failure the old regimes approaches have resulted in, and assure fans that the new people in charge are working hard to field a contending team, in the best way they possibly can. If they didn’t play in the same division as the Red Sox and Yankees, and hugely benefit financially from the interest in those teams, the commissioner’s office may have intervened already…
jbigz12
In all honesty half a season of Adam Jones isn’t worth much more than salary relief. He’s no longer a decent Cfer and his plate discipline went from bad to atrocious. Maybe in a corner with a better lineup around him you might see a little bit of his old form.
HalosHeavenJJ
One Angels fan I know threw out Jones to the Angels to replace the struggling Kole Calhoun. The Angels eat half a year of Jones salary so they avoid sending back any prospects of value.
Not a bad idea, but not a great one either.
jbigz12
Jones for Calhoun and a lottery ticket prospect. I’d like that if I were an orioles fan. Calhoun has a history of being a decent player and it’d give the Angels a different OFEr with a strong track record. I think jones would be a plus defender in left field. Angels probably don’t want to pay 4 outfielders that much money this year and Calhoun has a 9 million salary next year. Gives the orioles an outfielder for this year and next. The trade is effectively cash neutral the Halos would just be on the hook for more this season.
tonypro7
You ideally build a team with young pitching. Bundy and Gausman are under control for 4 and 3 more years. To trade them would be the opposite of a rebuild and fly in the face of…. rebuilding. Your goal is to obtain top notch young talent under club control. Why would you trade that….. for the possibility of that?
bravesandcrewfan
Because this team isn’t competitive for the next 3-4 years if they keep them. They’re probably the most valuable trade chips they got. Mean, I wouldn’t mind if the crew paid up a bit for Bundy (as long as we do it without paying up on infielders)
darkstar61
You dont rebuild with 2 guys and otherwise a plan to buy 20 FAs to complement them
The O’s have very little after this season. A rebuild will be tough from this horrible start point and take at least 5 years if done well. Both those guys will be gone by then though, so they currently hold almost no value to the club other than being trade assets.
Teams need a group of young prospects which would be ready at roughly the same time to build around. Keeping those two to lead an otherwise pitiful club will merely limit said prospects in the system
Christopher_Oriole
You mean like Erik Bedard did?
Or maybe Miguel Tejada?
I feel like they brought back /some/ talent to the team. A few good years of Luke Scott(who?) and Adam Jones, along with Matt Albers, and a few other no names.
O'sTXFAN
Got Chris Tillman in that one too…Bedard flared out after the trade. It was the right move. Although its sad to think he was the last home grown ‘Ace’
GRob78
Tough times in Baltimore. Hard to watch the games.
The time to rebuild is now. Any reasonable team would be plumbing the depths looking for prospects and shedding almost anyone on the roster they can. There is still a possibility to get solid prospects for Machado. Britton might be an Oriole in 2019 if he can’t get back to form quickly.
But let’s all be honest, the only way the Orioles will improve anytime soon is a change in ownership and clearing out the organizational ribbons.
some guy 2
I wonder if part of the reason that the O’s are hanging on to these players is that they fear losing more of their fan base to the Nats. Jones is a pillar of the community.
Solaris601
It’s has to be a fear of impact at the turnstiles and a culture of living in the moment with no eye toward the future. Tampa resisted trading Longoria for years for essentially the same reason. It’s fair to argue that strategy ultimately failed, and their return upon trading him is negligible. In order to run a successful franchise you have to be willing to trade veterans too soon rather than too late.
GRob78
Not sure why it says “ribbons” I had typed “rubbish.”
jbigz12
The reluctance to trade givens should go away too with a good offer. He still has the upside to be a pretty good closer and maybe that’s what the orioles are waiting for but we certainly don’t need that on a terrible team. Oday is on a market value contract so he won’t bring anything back. I already touched on Jones. Brach and Britton (if healthy and effective), should be able to net some kind of interesting prospect. I think our most underrated bullpen piece is Bleier. He doesn’t strike out anyone out but the guy knows how to pitch.
brooksnumber5is1
We already had a good prospect for Britton-the declined deal by Angelos for Colin Moran.
brooksnumber5is1
Sometimes I would love to see a reply rather a thumbs down. You would rather have a broken down Britton for half a year than a good young 3b prospect? The same guys who wanted Rasmus
jbigz12
I agree with you. I’m surprised we didn’t take that deal. Moran is a patient hitter and would’ve been a nice addition to this strike out prone mess we have now. Similar hitter to Neil walker who has been bad this year but I was hoping the orioles would grab to balance out the lineup. But as I say that I’m not surprised. If we would’ve been offered another prospect who could club 35 homeruns without an ounce of plate discipline we may have pulled the trigger.
Ironman_4life
Orioles suck. Seriously. Flat out suck. The most exciting day will be july 31 when we see what we get for Manny.
xabial
Manny rejects the QO and leaves in FA, signing a record contract in an anticlimactic ending.
Would anybody bet against Angelos doing something like that.
pd14athletics
I almost feel it is a certainty
Solaris601
I believe that’s the most likely scenario. The only thing stronger than Angelos’ desire to keep Machado is his desire for no other team to have him.
Senioreditor
Most of us predicted this in February/March. They obviously had no plan and executed it perfectly. They should move on from everyone immediately before untimely injuries occur. They can still obtain useful pieces but it’s going to be a painful few years.
Solaris601
The alternative is to just continue wandering in the wilderness until the organization falls off a cliff and establishes itself as the worst team in baseball for the next decade. Duquette takes a lot of heat, but he can’t do anything without ownership’s blessing, so I don’t hold him accountable for this mess. If Angelos went to him and said, “Look, you have the experience to pull this off. I’m authorizing you to launch the rebuild immediately – do whatever necessary, and I won’t interfere.”, that would be logical. Angelos would never do that, and therein lies the problem. Control freaks are always their own worst enemies. Until Angelos is out of the mix, this situation is only gonna get worse.
manos
No s*#%!
troll
5 teams in baseball are above .600. st. louis, arizona, nyy, boston, laa
Philliesfan4life
The O’s are gonna want a haul in return for Machado even though he will be a rental
camdenyards46
And they deserve a haul if it helps someone win a title
brucewayne
But they are not gonna get it. The time to trade MM was last year at the break when he was at his max trade value. Now they will barely get a decent prospect or a big league starter at best. Teams will just wait to sign him in free agency .
Christopher J. Mills
It amuses me when people say this. Have you followed the trade deadline the last few seasons? The market determines value. If three teams come knocking on the O’s door because they feel 3B or SS is a gaping hole keeping them from a shot at the WS, and those teams start bidding against each other, the O’s can get a haul. Plus, I’m sure a team like the Cubs or Dodgers, with deep pockets, would feel they had a shot at extending Manny before FA. I’m not saying the O’s will get a haul for Manny, but we won’t know that until we see all the teams in on him.
walls17
honestly the real shame here is that gary thorne is wasting his breath calling games for this team that nobody is gonna hear
Ironman_4life
Good Bye Home Run. Manny Machado has belted a solo home run to center to make a 1-13 Orioles deficit !!!!! Exhilarating
2012orioles
Idk how Jim Palmer can sit there and watch the rotation. He was a part of a rotation with 4 20 game winners. Now he’s watching a rotation that is lucky to make it 5 innings
User 4245925809
At least he doesn’t do the road games any longer to save him some of the anguish..
Remember the late 80’s when John Lowenstein, one of Palmer’s teamates would do color commentary for the O’s? It always sounded like he’d just finished smoking one of those left handed cigarettes he was so… u know… “out there” during games..
maybe get Old John back and those big shades he ALWAYS had on during broadcasts..
GRob78
Palmer just finished the broacasts for the West Coast swing in Anaheim and Oakland, FWIW.
Palmer is great, and when he’s paired with Gary Thorne they are a top 5 broadcast team. He’s pretty honest when assessing pitchers. No love for Ubaldo from day 1, loves Bundy. Has said Cobb has it but needs time, and Cobb is getting his stuff together now after sitting out the entire month of March.
I like listening to Palmer, he doesn’t mince words and is very honest. O’s fan like that.
jdgoat
This makes me sad
Slipknot37
Would a return for Machado be like what the tigers got for Yoenis Cespedes? Or a little more?
Ronk325
It would take a desperate team to give up a “Michael Fulmer” type of player for 2 months of Machado
RedRooster
Not really. Fulmer was at the lower end of MLBPipeline’s top 100 when he was traded. I will be very surprised if Machado doesn’t net at least one top 100 prospect.
MrMet62
FYI: Fulmer might not have been high on the top 100 prospect list, but he was very high on the Mets top prospect list. I suspect Machado will yield a similar prospect this summer.
arc89
They need to do a 100% complete rebuild. Nobody should be off limits in trade. Best to do as soon as possible. NY is so young they will be good for the next 5 years. Boston has young and old but with lots of money. Blue Jays might rebuild but is trying out 1 more season. Tampa is in rebuild. have a 4 year plan and they will be back. Trade for top prospects and build up the farm system.
hiflew
Sorry, but there is absolutely ZERO chance of a team effectively eliminated from the playoffs on May 8th. Granted, I do not expect the Orioles to make the playoffs and I do anticipate a sell-off if things remain the same, but I do not think they have ZERO chance at the playoffs. A couple of really good weeks (6 wins or better), entirely possible, and they are right back near .500. It’s not likely, but it could happen.
Senioreditor
They’re NOT going to compete. They signed scrubs to pitch and it shows. I’m sorry you’re a fan but the season IS over on May 8th.
hiflew
I’m not an Orioles fan. I am completely indifferent toward them and the entire American League for that matter. Regardless, I stand by my argument. And your emphasis on the words NOT and IS and very little else in the way of a counter is not really convincing me to change my mind either.
Christopher_Oriole
When’s the last time the Orioles has a quality start from a starter? Once every 5 days, maybe?
The offense is putrid at best. Manny Machado is the offense, with Pedro Alvarez doing his best Mark Reynolds impression circa 2012/2013 when he’d go on streaks of mashing home runs. Oh and Trey Mancini, who’s being wasted.
mehs
Orioles are 8th in the AL in quality starts with 14. It is the offense and bullpen that really tailed off this year. The starting pitching has been better than last year, They only had 61 quality starts all of last year, tied for last in the AL.
dan-9
Their season is done and you know it. If you want to argue that based on the 1 in 100,000 chance that they turn their season around (and the many, many teams ahead of them in the playoff race slow down), then go ahead. The “0% chance” of them making the playoffs is the result of rounding, which is apparently obvious to everyone but you. Yes, we all know the Orioles haven’t been mathematically eliminated yet, and therefore on a purely technical level, their chances are not zero. You’re not blowing anyone’s mind here.
But give me a break. They have no chance. Being a tiresome pedant about the meaning of “possible” is not the hill you want to die on.
baltbirds7
Bundy started the season strong with multiple consecutive gems. No run support. Cashner and gausman each had bad Forst starts but strung together multiple consecutive gems after. Cobb perhaps has finally pulled it together after the gem against Oakland but other than that he’s been garbage. Tillman has one good outing. But between gausman Cashner and bundy the O’s had a stretch of about 3 weeks or so where they had 3 quality starts per rotation. So yeah they’ve ha fair starting pitching. It’s the bullpen which has truly been abysmal. Castro, araujo, Cortes while he was here, brach, even O’Day and gyvens. Bleier has been the only decent consistent reliever.
brooksnumber5is1
The Orioles have 8 wins all season. How are they going to have multiple 6 win weeks? They need a 20 game win streak which is 2.5 times more than their win total so far. If every loss was to good teams and by one run, really small odds. This offense, defense & pitching staff-no way.
camdenyards46
There is not a zero percent chance until they are mathematically eliminated. If they go on a magical 23 game win streak or whatever the Indians did last year, they will be right back in it. That scenario, while unlikely, is not impossible.
dan-9
There is a zero percent chance if you round to the nearest 10 millionth percent. If that’s not good enough for you, then continue wasting your life being pedantic about the meaning of “zero percent chance”. We’re all amazed by your boundless intelligence.
brucewayne
Ok, put it this way; there is a big difference between probably
brucewayne
and probability ! There’s still a mathematical chance they can make the post-season , but highly doubtful !
Pops
Sucks to be an Orioles fan right now. Good article. Thanks.
#Fantasygeekland
Yeah I feel sorry for you guys… but being a Mariners fan is worse since we’ll be there in a year or two and won’t make the postseason before then
#Fantasygeekland
I am completely baffled by why the Orioles don’t spend internationally. REALLY hard to build any kind of a farm system that way. I feel they should trade everyone on their roster with trade value this year – except Hays, Sisco, and maybe Mancini.
Houston We Have A Solution
Orioles might as well sell everyone they can like the Marlins.
Youre gonna need to restock everything.
The Brewers could be an ideal spot for Machado who could play 2B for them. They have the prospects in Hiura or Burnes as the centerpiece and secondary prospects to pull it off.
Orioles could see a Hiura, Ortiz, Ponce, and Nottingham package for Machado.
SKbreesy
Who would the Brewers play over Machado at SS? No one on their team is a better hitter or fielder so far this year.
baltbirds7
Machado goes to dodgers. Seager our seals it IMO
start_wearing_purple
Anyone of value who is a FA in the offseason, sell them in July. Everyone else of value, float them in July and only take clearly great deals. Otherwise, wait until the offseason and have a firesale.
leggo chi
I thank Steve so much for this post, and it comes from a serious Orioles fan’s. I desperately hope that anyone from O’s FA reads it, takes it seriously and rights the ship before it’s too too late, since it’s already too late.
johnnyringofwc
Worst management in baseball. IMHO. Let’s not forget them bidding against themselves with Davis and Jimenez among other head scratchers.
hoof hearted
“Planned on contending”? Serious??
No one in their right mind thought they could use ” contend” and “Orioles ” in the same sentence.
leggo chi
Orioles THINK they can contend.
Orioles HOPE they can contend.
Orioles CANNOT contend.
Orioles PLANNED to contend after PA frees it up.
I came up with four..
leggo chi
And I think I’m in my right mind.. Although quite a bit pissed about how – understandably – my team is doing.
leggo chi
Seriously.. at the VERY least, trading MM, AJ, Britton, Brach, and even Schoop, Gausman, Bundy and Givens for just about anyone, anyone labeled ‘prospect’ would be a benefitting thing for the team’’s future. And by future, I mean 21-22 season at the earliest because this team flat out needs 100% makeover from top to the bottom of the organization. (Although I’d admit sadly that the top, PA, won’t be changed.
jorge78
What is PA?
ln13
Peter Angelos,
leggo chi
Please excuse this beef from the O’s fan whom it seems like everyone feels sorry for.
baseballhobo
The Orioles will be in the AL East cellar forever.
ln13
Well, at least as long as the Angelos family is involved.
RedRooster
There are four teams with win percentages at or above .600 (Cardinals, Diamondbacks, Yankees and Red Sox) and Kevin Gausman is only controlled through 2020.
mehs
The Angels at .618 say hi.
RedRooster
What they need is a fire sale the level of the Marlins from 20 years ago. Take what they can get for everyone. None of this “Hold onto him because the offers weren’t good enough” nonsense. Just take what they can get.
camdenyards46
Not everyone at the deadline, though. If Brach and Britton get traded, who are both on expiring deals, Givens will step into the closer role. That will make him more valuable this offseason when he is a proven closer. So if subpar offers are the only ones available for controllable players, don’t take them.
RedRooster
Offers aren’t going to get any better as they get closer to free agency and the acquiring team loses the ability to use them in their playoff drive for 2018.
jbigz12
That’s not always true. Givens is one guy who could take that next step and become dominant. Players improve. If givens is a lockdown closer by this team next season he has a hell of a lot more value than he does now as a good set up man. Could also go the other way if he flops. We don’t need to and won’t trade everyone but we need to clear out most.
qbass187
That’s what happens when you have perennial losers like Showalter & Duquette running your team. Both have always been just good enough to never win anything.
camdenyards46
Showalter won the wild card game in Toronto….oh wait, he put in Ubaldo
brucewayne
You are wrong about Showalter ! He builds winning teams
brucewayne
and is a very well respected manager
brucewayne
Can you imagine what the O’s record would be the last 5 years without him?
Christopher J. Mills
Showalter survives on a fictitious reputation. He’s a good manager, but for someone reason everyone thinks he’s elite. There is a reason ALL THREE of his previous teams went to or won the WS immediately after he left. He makes just enough bad decisions to hurt his teams and keep them from winning it all.
jays4life 2
The real question is what kind of haul can they get for that Chris Davis guy and his contract…
jekporkins
A thought is to do what Boston did a couple years ago when they traded Gonzalez but insisted on Crawford being included. So trade Machado but insist on Davis being included. They might not get anything in return but they’ll have that contract off the books and will still get a high draft pick because of their record.
SteveofPA
I think Davis has a “no-trade” clause. We are stuck with in for 4 more years? Maybe 5?
jekporkins
Jeez, what an albatross. Maybe he’ll waive it to the right team if he doesn’t want to sit through a rebuild.
jbigz12
What team in baseball would put a 100 million dollar valuation on half a season of Manny Machado? Thinking Davis could be included in a machado trade is ludicrous. If machado had 3 seasons of control left then you could think about something like that happening.
RedRooster
Methinks he’d waive his NTC if it meant going to a team that might actually win something during the duration of his contract. The real issue is his trade value (or lack thereof).
tjb13
There isn’t a team in MLB that would take him even if the Orioles ate his entire contract. They would get nothing for him. He has been in a slump for over two seasons and shows no signs of ending it. He’ll be on the roster through 2022.
ln13
That’s the other thing that drives me crazy with Peter Angelos. Once you are under contract, you get used. No matter how bad you are, if you’re getting paid, you’re going to play. He refuses to admit when he’s made a mistake and eat a contract.
Solaris601
The front office/ownership knows they made a massive mistake in giving Davis that contract. If he was even marginally productive you could live with it. But he’s been monumentally bad and is literally an automatic out. A sound organization has a meeting to discuss how much of that contract they’re willing to eat, and how soon they need to do it. Angels had to do it with Hamilton, and BAL needs to stop blowing smoke up their own backsides and decide when to toss Davis overboard.
jbigz12
It’s not how much they can eat. It would literally be all of it. No team would want Davis for more than the league minimum at this point. There’s no creative way to save any money on that deal. We’re going to be rebuilding regardless so Davis doesn’t really matter anymore.
realgone2
None of this will happen with that old fool Angelos owning the team.
camdenyards46
I agree with pretty much everything here, but it would be idiotic to trade Bundy. It is his first full year this year, and he has not reached his potential yet. To have a young pitcher, but still a “veteran” on our young team, a few years down the line would be great. I even question if we should trade Gausman. I think the untouchables are Bundy and Mancini.
GarryHarris
The O’s scouts aren’t good enough for a successful rebuild. They need to fix the front office / owner interference issues first.
Caseys.Partner
“The O’s scouts aren’t good enough for a successful rebuild. They need to fix the front office / owner interference issues first.”
When they are let go Phillies fans have to hope they don’t land with their team.
ln13
The Orioles have scouts?
jbigz12
The orioles scouts are fine. That’s not the problem. We don’t spend money on IFA’s. We do fairly well in the draft but we don’t supplement that with the international market like the 29 other teams.
ln13
The scouts they do have may be fine. The problem is, they just don’t have enough scouts.
pressboxonline.com/2017/11/29/small-scouting-staff…
some guy 2
Agree that this team needs a total reboot. The Marlins just sold everything that wasn’t bolted down and are about the same quality as the O’s (and maybe have a brighter future at this point). Trade everyone (including Bundy and Gaussman) and with their superior revenues, the O’s will be back in a few years.
slider32
O’s are between a rock and a hard place now, they waited too long to rebuild. Now they will only get 50 cents on the dollar for their top players like Machado and most of their players are untradeable.
brooksnumber5is1
Only Oriole apologists thought this team would contend. Rasmus and Valencia pick ups were rediculous. Their rule 5 approach handcuffs the team, stunts drafted prospects growth, and does not provide the team any value. International pool money and the waste of trading young arms for backup infielders or right fielders is crazy. No players are traded while they have maximum value. Please get some real front office personnel and get a real plan.
ln13
You can have the best front office personnel in baseball, but as long as the current ownership is in place, this team is doomed.
Christopher J. Mills
Let’s be honest here. I don’t think anyone thought this team would win the WS, but they were a WC contender. If everyone on the roster was playing to their career averages right now, the O’s would probably be right around .500.
ray714
Its funny seeing people make offers they think will get Machado .. every year its the same . A good player is gonna be traded and everyone puts out crazy big offers in the comments and then the player is traded for nothing close to it.. O’s be lucky to get 1 top 100 in a deal.. happens every time.
tjb13
The only thing missing in the article is the reliance on Rule 5 players to fill out the roster. Dumpster Dan seems to be committed to proving that he is smarter than anyone else in MLB by showing that he can turn around players exposed by other teams.
Losses have become the norm for this team. What can you expect from a team that had 40 Ks in the series with the A’s, plays Peterson at 2B, Alvarez and Valencia at 3B, and brings in a Rule 5 pitcher? Sisco hasn’t been bad, but he hasn’t played above Double A. Joseph’s bat is mediocre at best and then only in even numbered years.
The first week in May and they are already 17 GB the Red Sox (no other team in MLB is that many GB their division leader) and 9 GB Tampa. They aren’t capable of doing what the NYY have done to cut into the Red Sox lead.
Dumpster Dan has to move Memorial Day up on his calendar.
I’m starting to wonder if 1983 will be for Oriole fans what 1908 was for Cubs fans.
The bigger question is why do I continue to watch this mess of a team play?
hoof hearted
Why do you continue to watch them?
Because….
Signed,
Mariner fan
fs54
From what I have been reading, it seems first order of business is not to trade players that can fetch quality return. First step should be to get like-minded, analytically inclined front office and coaches. Basically have a team philosophy that is consistent throughout the organization. Time is not on their side since doing this mid-season will be tough to pull out.
HubcapDiamondStarHalo
The Marlins do NOT have a zero percent chance at the playoffs??
thefenwayfaithful 2
The thing I never understood is that this team was never a true contender. Their best years had Tillman as the “ace” but even Tillman knew he was a solid pitcher. Good #2 in his best year and solid mid rotation starter until his downfall. I’m sorry but in a division with these other 4 teams, that’s not gonna fly. All the Rays do is develop young arm after young arm. The Yanks and Sox buy their way out of tough spots when they make mistakes. O’s ownership runs the same guys out there time and time again and knowing how Duquette has managed other positions you know it’s driving him crazy. They have been within 2-3 pieces of a strong contender and had an owner who has done absolutely nothing to put them over the top. And to throw stupid money at guys like Davis and bid against yourself time and time again… I’m just sorry to the fans and good on all of you for not showing up this year. You deserve better. Duquette should have made some deals he didn’t and maybe he couldn’t, but this downfall is more about ownership not ponying up for the pieces they needed when they needed it. Cobb and Cashner was putting a bandaid on a broken ankle and giving them 2 more pieces that represent what they specialize in. Mediocre starting pitching… Sorry to rant but it’s infuriating because the money and fans are there… No excuses.
Bald Vinny
Some talking head on MLB network on Sirius last year… said Baltimore would have the best rotation in 2017 in the AL East. I laughed then… and I am still laughing.
Solaris601
I don’t ever remember a fan base begging for a rebuild, but that could soon be a reality in Baltimore if it isn’t already.
Jonesyy
The O’s should see no other choice but to rebuild and redefine the philosophy in Baltimore. They need to start prioritizing players with strong on-base percentages, who work the count and, most importantly, are just good all around hitters. The game has changed and running out a lineup 1 through 9 of guys who are only good for the home run does not cut in anymore and will not win championships.
mgrap84
Holy crap we had Josh Hader and traded him…. Wow how did that work out for us
HalosHeavenJJ
The biggest culprit is the owner. Angelos allows the dysfunction in the front office and is the one opposed to the international signing process. He also bid against himself for Davis.
Unless/until he decides to hire a true baseball ops process and let them run the team without ideological stands, the franchise will continue to suffer.
The good news is that Arte Moreno could be described the same way a few years back and seems to have come around. Hopefully Angelos can too.
brooksnumber5is1
I think Dan Duquette goes through replies and gives any negative Oriole posts a thumbs down.
gary55wv
Davis’s contract couple years back was the beginning of the end. Nick saw it coming. Bravo
matanzas1962
The last time I saw Bundy against the Angels, his FB was topping out at 90-91 and had no life.This is a guy who when he signed out of HS he was topping out at 97 mph. Last night he got hammered again. I have to believe that there is or are Arm Issues. No team will gamble on what is happening at this time. One thing is on having the same velo and struggling because of Command and another with lack of Velo & Command. As you well should know, he already had arm surgery in the past. It would be foolish to gamble on Bundy at this stage.
Andrew Fox
Can we get one of these for the Royals? The only difference between these two is that the Royals are in a weak division. And they haven’t been quite as bad.
jbigz12
The royals let more of their assets walk already. We at least have machado and schoop to trade plus a couple of good prospects already. If we’re in worse shape than the royals it’s only because of our division.