There are few topics more polarizing among baseball fans than whether Major League Baseball should adopt a universal designated hitter. Proponents of the DH argue that there’s little excitement derived from watching pitchers hit, while detractors lament the loss of strategy that would come from removing the frequent double-switches, determining when to pinch-hit for a pitcher and the general small-ball aspects of the game that are inherently tied to pitchers hitting.
MLB commissioner Rob Manfred touched on the subject briefly following the quarterly owners’ meetings this week, as Scott Boeck of USA Today writes. While Manfred didn’t delve into specifics, he did hint that the adoption of National League designated hitters could be on the horizon.
“I think that is a continuing source of conversation among the ownership group and I think that the dialogue actually probably moved a little bit,” Manfred said of the ongoing discussion regarding the DH being utilized by National League clubs. That certainly doesn’t indicate when a potential change of the rules would be put into place, but it does make it sound likelier that said change will be implemented at some point in the future.
It’s true that employing a designated hitter in both leagues would eliminate some more conventional means of strategy. Double-switches force managers to get creative with their lineups and use their bench pieces in selective fashion. Pitchers hitting leads to more sacrifice bunting and creates some degree of gamesmanship when it comes to facing the eighth-place (or, in some instances, seventh-place) hitter ahead of the pitcher. Many hitters have seen an artificial boost to their OBP by virtue of being pitched around or intentionally walked in order to face the pitcher (or in order to force the opposing manager to pinch-hit and thus remove a starter from the game). Those elements, of course, would be no more. Fans who’ve spent decades primarily watching the game played in a certain fashion may understandably bristle at the notion.
Does the advent of a DH in the National League necessarily “eliminate” strategy, though? At a time when defensive shifting is at an all-time high and becoming all the more advanced, it’d be easy to argue that the increased prevalence of data (and its manifestation in the on-field product) simply creates new types of strategy.
It’s commonplace now to not only see fielders shifting at the beginning of a player’s plate appearance but to even begin re-positioning themselves during said plate appearance based on the count. We’ve seen some teams, the Cubs most recently, shift pitchers to the outfield for one batter as a means of keeping them in the game to set up multiple left-on-left and right-on-right matchups that would otherwise be broken up by an opposite-handed batter. (Just this week, Chicago moved Steve Cishek to left field to get a lefty-lefty matchup against the Brewers before bringing Cishek back to the mound to face Lorenzo Cain — a move which Cain amusingly said “kind of broke my heart.”) The Rays have been using relief pitchers to open games in hopes of more effectively neutralizing an opponent’s best hitters early. If anything, strategy seems to be evolving rather than evaporating.
Still, many traditionalists simply enjoy the novelty that comes with pitchers taking turns at bat. I doubt I’m alone in acknowledging that I’ve watched Bartolo Colon’s home run against James Shields a borderline-unhealthy number of times in my life. Plenty of fans would like to see Madison Bumgarner participate in the Home Run Derby at some point in his career. The arrival of Shohei Ohtani in the United States has only further created some intrigue around pitchers hitting. Allowing pitchers to hit does create some unexpected moments of excitement, as any Diamondbacks fan who watched Archie Bradley’s seventh-inning, two-run triple during last year’s NL Wild Card game can attest.
At the same time, with the notable exception of Ohtani, there’s little denying that even the best-hitting pitchers simply aren’t good hitters. Bumgarner is considered the game’s best in that regard (again, excepting Ohtani), and the best four-year stretch of his career saw him bat .224/.272/.433 (from 2014-17). That’s a slightly worse level of output than Tommy Joseph turned in for the Phillies last season before being designated for assignment, claimed by the Rangers and, eventually, being sent outright to Double-A.
Pitchers are batting a collective .111/.144/.140 this season and striking out at a 42.8 percent pace. Conversely, the league-average non-pitcher is hitting .249/.321/.413 with a 21.8 percent strikeout rate. As the league explores ways in which to increase the frequency of the ball being put into play, giving the National League a regular designated hitter would be one way to go about doing so. Pitchers batted 5277 times last season and struck out in 2028 of those plate appearances (38.4 percent). Nearly halving that number would’ve resulted in (roughly) 1,000 fewer strikeouts, and the discrepancy between hitter and pitcher strikeouts has only increased from 2017 to 2018.
While many fans would argue that the American League should simply drop the DH, there’s no way that the MLBPA would agree to that during collective bargaining agreement talks, as it’d remove as many as 15 jobs for offensive-minded position players, so for the purposes of this poll, I’ll withhold that option from being an answer. That said, the topic generally makes for a rather spirited debate, so we’ll open this up for all of our readers to weigh in (link to poll for Trade Rumors app users).
Hell no
Most MLB hitters have thousands of minor league ABs. Pitchers are at a disadvantage and it ruins the game. The only way I want to see an MLB pitcher hit is if the defensive team is required to Designate a Pitcher from the position players to pitch to the opposing pitcher. The pitcher can go to LF or RF for that AB and then return to pitch to the leadoff batter.
“Pitchers are at a disadvantage and it ruins the game.” Pitchers have batting for around 150 years and the game seems to be doing just fine. It’s hardly been ruined.
The National League (of Boring Unwatchable Baseball) begs to differ.
“The National League (of Boring Unwatchable Baseball)….” Then don’t watch…..it’s really simple.
So the answer is to get rid of the DH in the AL.
Steve, when is the sister article/poll for ‘Should the AL abolish the DH?’ going to be released?
Well done.
I’m assuming you just read the headline and made this comment, because the article implicitly answers this question, but the answer is: if the MLB commissioner floats THAT idea out in a press conference, I’m sure we’d see a poll about it.
Be like the Senior Circuit. Adapt the pitcher to hit
I think abolishing the DH would have to be approved by the players’ union. That will never happen.
Likewise, the owners should use the “NL DH” as a bargaining chip against the union.
Opt in or out when exchanging lineups. My opinion.
my thoughts exactly. It should be left up to the home team.
What manager would elect to have their pitcher bat, if they could have someone DH? Even if your starter is one of the better hitting pitchers, the lineup implications once he’s pulled would make me wary of doing it. I suppose if the visiting team has a real killer DH it could be used as a defensive measure, but in my opinion that’s the only time you’d see it.
In theory, you’d do it each and every time you think the other team has a better DH, and thus in principle should be in about 50% of games.
.
OTOH, I suspect most managers are too terrified of injuries to their pitchers, and so it would be rare.
I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. The DH spot doesn’t exist in isolation; it changes the entire lineup composition. And not having it would frequently mean making an additional defense vs offense decision. Declining to use the DH also adds pressure to the management of the bullpen and bench. These concerns, in addition to the injury concerns rhat you noted, make me feel that we’d rarely see managers decline to use the DH if given the option. Maybe 5% if that, imo.
Maddon would do sh*t like that. He believes he’s a genius.
It should be left up to each team to make their own decision. It is simple for an NL team to take a bench player and let them DH because they’ll always hit better than the pitcher. An AL team is forced to sit one if their better/best hitters.
Yes!
~Yankee fans everywhere
acar, I’m right with ya guy!
Stick with your own league.
gobble gobble gobby
Turkey, free country!
Yea, who pissed in this guys cornflakes?
lolololol. awesome
steven
Go to your corner Gobby!
Cooper, Haha
you and Steven rule
Justice for CMW!
AL should adopt dropping the DH. But that won’t ever happen so yes, NL should.
If anything, the American League should adopt the idea that a pitcher must bat.
AL pitchers would love to inflate their stats with worthless K’s. Over 1,000 fake K’s in the NL per the article. This is why FA pitchers like the NL, it makes them look better than they actually are.
Absolutely. Offense is good for the game of baseball. Having someone in there for the sake of double switches and sac bunts makes zero sense.
Offense is the reason the game has increased in length. It takes time to score runs and it takes time to have pitching changes to attempt to counter teams from scoring. I can’t see BOTH scoring runs AND the DH as being good for the game from a logical standpoint.
It’s all about preparation and jobs. MLB pitchers aren’t prepared to hit even though many of them were great hitters in HS or college. The DH helps to extend careers of great hitters without forcing them to play a position. After all, it’s entertainment. We deserve to see the best hitters not a pitcher trying to hit with the bases loaded and 2 outs in the top of the 1st.
We deserve to see complete ball players not guys who can’t field their position.
If the pitcher is up with the bases loaded and 2 outs, the team has already scored 3 runs in the first inning. What more do you need? Do you need to see 10 runs in the first inning? I am far more entertained by a 0-0 or 1-1 game than a 12-0 game.
@southi ironic, considering the vast majority of pitchers can’t hit to save their life. I guess hitting isn’t part of being a complete player?
docmilo5…….”without forcing them to play a position.” Oh the horror…I thought baseball players were supposed to play baseball..
A pitcher attempts to hit when given the opportunity, but a DH by definition in the game doesn’t field, he only hits and never takes the field.
Maybe I’m just biased because I recall the time before the DH. It used to be when position players couldn’t field their position they retired.
How does this have to do with jobs? If anything, the DH will decrease the number of jobs. It’s hard to justify a 25 man roster when bench players are being used so infrequently
Pitchers are not complete ball players because they can’t hit. If they could hit they’d be playing every day as a position player. Remember that Babe Ruth was moved from pitcher to outfielder because he could hit.
Does that mean that position players who can’t pitch aren’t complete players?
The DH was a gimmic, and still is. The reason many of you think otherwise is because you don’t recall the game when pitchers hit in both leagues.
When I n defense pitchers pitch and position players play their position. I would have assumed that was obvious. On offense everyone has to hit at a professional level. Per the article pitchers hit .111/.144/.140 which means they have no offensive value, only defensive value. A DH has offensive value but no defensive value. Both are not complete players because they only provide value during 1/2 of an inning. In the NL a pitcher is no different than an all glove no bat SS or CF except there are 6-7 replacement pitchers in the pen and only 1-2 replacement IF/OF on the bench.
It doesn’t add any appreciable offense. As I’ve posted before, since the start of the 2014 season AL teams have scored 0.16 more runs per game than NL teams. Put another way, every 6th game the AL team scores 1 more run.
I would much rather watch an intentional walk, which has already been eliminated, than watch pitchers hit. If you want pitchers to hit, DH them on their off days.
I️ hate it when people cite injuries for the DH.
“The pitcher’s job is to pitch, not hit”
By that logic, they shouldn’t field either. Should we have a designated fielder to run and cover First, to prevent injuries like what happened to Garrett Richards in 2015(?)… no!
We could always make the DH optional in both leagues. If a pitcher, say Andy Suarez- who is basically a strikeout when he comes up, doesn’t want to hit, they don’t have to. But if someone like Ohtani or Arrieta or Bumgarner want to hit, they can.
Ohtani can bat now while he pitches. It just means when he’s pulled in the 6th, the team doesn’t have a DH the rest of the game either
I’d imagine that if the NL does adopt the DH rule, it would be similar in that regard except that managers would decide whether the pitcher hits or not rather then the player. Of course, this rule would only apply to the NL in that scenario, at least initially; there’s no telling if the MLBPA would let that pass in the AL.
Moron logic 101. The AL is fun to watch.
Open up another 15 slots for guys that can’t run or play defense? Pass.
Atleast make it consistent across leagues. Either have the DH or don’t. Also, the fact that we argue about adding the DH to the NL rather than removing it from the AL is a sign the NL needs it.
No, it’s a sign the writer chose to slant the story that way. Plenty of people would rather see the AL lose the DH.
Me, I’m a tradtionalist, so I want to keep it the way it’s been for 45 years.
A traditionalist would want the DH removed entirely. 45 years is a small part of baseball’s history. Maybe that’s how long you’ve been alive, but that has little to do with the definition of tradition.
Tradition is about maintaining longstanding practice. The DH in one league but not the other is a longstanding practice. It’s the only thing people under 45 (and no, I’m not) have seen their whole lives, and the only thing any of us have seen for almost a half-century. Once you do things a “new” way for a long period of time, then THAT becomes the tradition.
Going back to the way things used to be, but haven’t been for awhile, is not traditionalist, but reactionary. All pitchers batting, or prohibiting black players, or getting rid of fielding gloves would not be reactionary, not traditional.
What? Reverting to how things were is not the definition of reactionary.
Calling it a slant is a bit unfair. This article was in response to Manfred floating out the idea of the NL adopting the DH.
Also, I’m sure we don’t have to rehash all the reasons why removing the DH from the AL is wildly impractical, for the millionth time.
Please explain because that would be no more impractical than instituting it in the NL.
And please don’t cite loss of jobs because that’s a fallacy. There would simply be different jobs, not fewer. Also, no “injury” argument either as a player can get hurt in any aspect of the game.
AL teams are constructed with the DH spot in mind. No AL franchise wants to do away with the DH. Adding a spot to the NL is dramatically easier than taking one away from the AL. I’m sure someone who writes for a living has addressed all of these in more detail hundreds of times already. This debate is so tired.
I absolutely despise the DH. However I do believe it is coming within the next few years. There are fewer and fewer traditionalists around to even argue anymore..
Didn’t look at the poll, eh?
I assure you there are far fewer traditionalists than there were a decade ago, much less 25 or 40 years ago. There are fewer and fewer fans alive who watched baseball before the DH.
And yet half of fans in the poll above do not want the DH in the NL..
Poll after poll over decades has shown the same result — people overwhelmingly want to keep the rule the same as it already is for their favorite team. ~80% of NL fans don’t want the DH, ~80% AL fans do.
Given that NL owners care mostly about what NL fans think, nothing is changing anytime soon.
Somewhere out there Madison bumgarner is looking at this post while he rolls his eyes.
I knew I’d get Bumgarner responses, so I even included him in there:
“Bumgarner is considered the game’s best in that regard (again, excepting Ohtani), and the best four-year stretch of his career saw him bat .224/.272/.433 (from 2014-17). That’s a slightly worse level of output than Tommy Joseph turned in for the Phillies last season before being designated for assignment, claimed by the Rangers and, eventually, being sent outright to Double-A.”
Madison Bumgarner is a good-hitting pitcher, but he’s an objectively bad hitter relative to position players throughout the league.
Bum only swings it one out of every 5 days though. He may be a better hitter if he got in the box everyday. But there’s your problem right there, he’s not going to. The ceiling for 99.9% if the league hitting the baseball is MadBum, with many being much worse. If you like that then that’s fine. I think having the pitcher hitting adds more excitement to a long extra inning game but that’s about it.
I am pretty much against having a DH in the NL but honestly wouldn’t really care if they did. I think pitchers would be better hitters if they hit more often but that’s just not going to happen. MadBum would have a better argument if he wasn’t trying to hit a home run every single pitch.
Why? How many hits, HR’s or RBI’s does he have this year?
If a pitcher and a team AL/NL want to forego their DH they could before the game starts. So if Bumgarner or any other pitcher really wanted to hit they could. Only thing is they’d forfeit the DH for the entire game.
no. In baseball you can’t be pulled from the lineup and go back into the game. The DH is for ignorant fans who don’t understand the games.
Sorry Nat. It’s about offense and jobs.
See the shift…you don’t have to love every move.
Playing with unequal rules is absurd.
The NL should adopt the DH and the AL should have the pitcher bat. If you intentionally walk to get to the pitcher then the pitcher walks to.
Then I’d just throw four pitches about 5 feet outside to the batter in front of the pitcher. Prove it’s intentional.
Then if you throw 4 straight balls then you consider it intentional.
A DH has no place in professional baseball. It’s an affront to athletes. Baseball with a dh might as well be a little league game. It’s boring, and turns the game into one based on offense, instead of the actual game of baseball. I refuse to watch American league games and if the NL follows the junior league and adopts the DH I’ll be done with MLB.
That’s a shame.
lofl
I’m right there with you dude. The second the NL adopts the DH rule is the last second I will spend money on MLB. There is already a league for fans of the DH, if you don’t want to see a pitcher bat, then watch American League games. I don’t want to watch the DH, so I watch National League games. I do not want to see the DH removed from the AL, because that would harm AL fans. Why does anyone else want to drive away NL fans from a sport that is already hemorrhaging fans as is?
I have to agree. Great assessment.
Exactly! Good call
It boggles my mind that anyone cares this much either way about the designated hitter in baseball in 2018. If one curiosity of the lineup ruins the entire game for you, I really question what the sport means to you.
Disclaimer: I think the two leagues should keep having different rules because I think that quirk is fun.
I’m for whatever…..as time changes so doesnt the sport. Though I like it the way it is now because it makes the playoff matchups more interesting.
I, for one, will only readily embrace the idea of a DH when we also have designated fielders, designated runners, and designated pitchers. In other words, every other facet of the game.
Unfortunately, people tend to over simplify the “strategy” argument by only speaking of double switches. The NL has smaller benches because of pitchers. And there’s a thousand other things as well. I won’t go into detail here unless
Both leagues should drop the 9th spot in the lineup. That way pitchers don’t bat and there is no DH. Run with an 8 man batting order so that your best players get more AB.
Cause that will help trying to cut time in the game.
That isn’t even the question at hand. But now that you randomly changed the subject anyways, it could make the game more exciting making the game length issue less necessary.
I think they need to take away the DH anyways. If you pitch you hit that’s how the game has always been played. Now these players these days have it way to easy. Just do away with it and play ball like it’s supposed to be played
Ugh here comes all the old people screaming about situational hitting, etc. I’ll never understand why anyone would be against this. I mean hell you’re even creating 15 more jobs for the country. 15. Also, allowing other players to get some rest from the field, keeping everyone healthier, not just pitchers. And finally, more offensive capable players should me more runs which is never bad for a sport that talks about getting more viewers all the time.
You’re not actually creating 15 more jobs – roster sizes remain the same, so every player who is only a DH takes the roster spot of another player…
You aren’t creating 15 new jobs. You are just giving different tasks to 15 jobs that are already there. Nothing more.
As far as health goes, prove that players today are healthier and more capable players than a player in 1972.. Starting pitchers pitch about 50% of the innings of their counterparts from before the DH. Even position players played more often back then.
If you can’t be entertained by a 1-0 pitcher’s duel, then maybe baseball is not the sport for you. Go watch basketball, it’s probably more your pace.
I am very much entertained by a 1-0 game, if I see a W for my team at the end. I was just trying to list some positives to an overall audience. Thanks for recommending I watch basketball since I clearly hate baseball…I am aware of the sport of basketball.
So..hey man…I think we all agree you’re not creating jobs. Roster size is still 25.
In fact, lemme hit you with this. You could argue you’re actually taking away jobs since pinch hitters and double switches are more frequent in the nl. so giving one guy four at bats versus giving probably three or four guys one or two at bats a game. Brewers typically use at least three bench guys a game. What do Al guys use? I bet it’s pretty close to zero
Remember Chien-Ming Wang!! 🙂
What the actual hell? No.
There should be 9 batters and 9 defensive players. Not necessarily the same 9, but most would be 2 way players. This way we’d have the best batters and the best fielders. The game would be better.
This sounds absurd, but if you follow the “baseball needs more scoring” logic to its bitter end, you get separate offensive and defensive teams for each club, a la the NFL. I say players are either in the lineup or they aren’t. Bag the DH late one night while the MLPB negotiators are sleeping!
I hate the DH, even though my team is the White Sox. I heard a proposal that MLB should add a 26th man to the the rosters. That would be a concession, which may convince the union to agree to eliminating the DH.
Adding the DH to the National League will just reduce attendance and viewership. Fans that like the DH watch American League games; fans that don’t, watch National League games. Getting rid of that option will ultimately just lessen the attraction of the sport. The sport needs more action in both leagues – adding the DH to National League doesn’t suddenly fix the problems with the sport overall, it’ll just make a lot of fans bitter.
How about just doing away with the pitcher batting in ALL inter-league games. This way no AL pitcher will have to bat. AND the NL gets to keep their rules
On the surface, that sounds good. here’s the argument against that, whether it’s valid or not I’ll leave up to you. Because the rules are different, there is a sentiment that it gives a little extra edge to the home team. NL for the obvious reasons (pitchers spend time in the cage more often) but the AL also has an advantage. Their rosters are built to accommodate an extra hitter, whereas the NL might use more of that money to add another reliever or something. It’s a lot different giving a pinch hitter one at bat, vs a DH who gets 4 or more. There’s financial implications as well, though some teams may skew that data. Starting hitters tend to make more than middle relievers, so there’s a sentiment that the AL is at a disadvantage pay roll wise, though I’m sure teams like the Yankees, Red Sox, Angels, and Marlins are at least part of that problem. I’m not arguing for you to agree or disagree. just pointing a couple things out for you to chew on, and if after you’ve considered these things, you still feel the same way, no harm done.
It’s beyond stupid that within a sport you have a different set of rules for each league. What if in the NFL field goals were only used in the AFC, and in the NBA three-pointers were only utilized for western teams. Just either ban it in both leagues or adopt it for both leagues, not a really tough decision other way.
So you want to compare it to other sports?
The dh would be like in basketball, you have Carmelo Anthony (an offensive player) come out on defense and only play offense. Doesn’t make sense, does it?
Baseball is missing the point. It does have a problem with pace of play, but it has nothing to do with the dh. It’s ALL THE TIME IN-BETWEEN PITCHES!
Here’s my solution- take the “time out” out of baseball. Hitters can’t call time and pitchers can’t call time. Also, if no one is on base, give the pitcher an amount of time in between pitches that he has to throw it. Every other sport has it- a shot clock, a play clock… etc. if someone is on base, leave it the way it is.
The pitcher hitting in the nl is not the problem, so WHY TRY TO FIX IT?
Personally, I’d prefer no DH. As a practical matter, I believe it may be time for the NL to adopt the DH for reasons docmilo5 and others have pointed out, but only as part of a package of rule changes designed to optimize the overall quality of pitcher-batter matchups.
In other words, I could agree adopting the DH is due provided that both leagues adopted a rule requiring each reliever to either face record the final out of the inning he enters or face a minimum of three batters in any inning he appears.
Relievers who cannot face three consecutive major-league hitters without constantly jeopardizing their team’s chances of winning don’t belong in the major leagues.
I grew up and have been an NL fan my whole life. I prefer the style and strategy of the non-DH game but it’s also bizarre that the two leagues have had different rules for almost 50 years. It wasn’t as discordant before inter-league play when we only saw it during the WS but now it just seems archaic. Imagine if only the NFL’s AFC had 2 point conversions or the NBA Western Conference a three-point line. IMHO it’s inevitable at this point the DH will come to NL eventually.
Just DH the pitchers if they still want to hit.
In fact, pitchers average just under two at bats per game. That doesn’t seem like enough of a hardship to mess with what is a beautiful game. Perhaps if, rather than spending their off-days playing golf and practical jokes, pitchers spent a few more hours in the cage and working with the hitting instructors, their plate appearances wouldn’t be such a disaster.
That said, maybe the solution is to make starters take their ABs and then, once they’re pulled (as happens 98% of the time), they’re replaced in the batting order by a DH. Considering the size of pitching staffs these days, that’s a good way to preserve the roster for late inning substitutions.
Never…Never…Never
NL baseball is how it should be.
Manfred is ruining baseball
No, hes trying to keep the interest level up. Look sports like NASCAR and NFL….ratings are dropping.
“Look sports like NASCAR and NFL….ratings are dropping” hate to break it to you but so is MLB and has been for quite some time. The NFL ratings have leveled off and even though they’ve fell over the last couple of years they’d have to take an historic plunge to reach the levels of MLB. The sports that have taken huge ratings hikes are the NBA(which is now the #2 most watched sport in America), and Soccer which is already viewed more then in the NW and SW. The DH in both leagues in no way will solve any of the problems MLB has in lack of interest, if anything it will alienate some of the few fans they currently have. Just read a lot of these posts as examples.
This is more messing around but make it where each team has to use the pitcher in 81 games to bat. Let the manager decide which games that would be. If a team wants to pinch hit and run through the bench each at bat then that’s on them.
AL rule for dh is any positon, but cannot be changed during the game if the players departs the game. so if ohtani bats and pitches, but is replaced in the 8th by a reliever, the p spot still must bat. perhaps change that rule for more ohtanis.
No actually the rule states clearly that the DH can only hit for the pitcher.
In Major League Baseball, the designated hitter is a hitter who does not play a position, but instead fills in the batting order for the pitcher. The DH may only be used for the pitcher (and not any other position player), as stated in Rule 5.11. Use of the DH is optional, but must be determined prior to the start of the game. If a team does not begin a game with a DH, the pitcher (or a pinch-hitter) must bat for the entire game.
If this was done, this would really hurt the lower budget NL teams. They cannot afford the David Ortiz, kind of players because Los Angeles, San Fransisco, Philly, Washington and Chicago will just outbid them as usual.
I’d rather see no DH in the American League. Won’t happen. MLBPA will push for the DH in both leagues to ensure more players get paid. It’s all about the money. Players who can still hit but can’t play a position will still command decent coin with 30 teams rather than just 15.
If anything, the AL should get rid of it. The strategy of the game is far superior in the NL and all the mid-inning pitching changes in the AL turn innings 6-9 into a commercial-filled snoozefest.
I suppose they could institute rules to limit mid-inning pitching substitutions as a pace-of-play initiative.
YES YES A THOUSAND TIMES YES!!!!!
I hope Manfred reads this site and this article’s comments.
You look at the poll?
Yes. pitchers used to barely be able to hit, but at least thet could lay down a sac bunt. These days, they can’t hit at all and can barely lay down a bunt. The people that are against this just want the game to stay the same for the sale of the game staying the same
How about best of both worlds? Get rid of the DH for the AL, but also get rid of the pitcher hitting for the NL
This poll is extremely close (51-49 as of when I submitted). I’d be interested in knowing what the data is behind how people voted. For example… how many people who follow NL teams are voting for the DH and vice versa. I speculate that in a majority of cases, the league rules for one’s home team is how people are voting, but I could be wrong.
Besides the demographics of which team/league they follow I wish the data was available for age range and geographic location.
My biggest thing is when a great hitter/mediocre fielder later in his career has no choice but to vacate the NL and move to the AL.. As an NL fan I’m losing out on keeping/acquiring that player each and every year and his demand is 50% of what it should be which equals 50% less demand and salary.
Ive always liked the DH because a rally at the end of the of the lineup only for the pitcher to come up with 1 or 2 outs is just all too frustrating to watch night in and out.
Regardless, it should be the same either way in both leagues.
No DH!!
Both Leagues : I would propose adding 1 player (26) to roster with no DH. The 1 extra player would be used in the event your pitcher is pitching really well and are in a situation where you could pinch hit for pitcher without removing him. It gives offense a chance to score and also allows your pitcher a chance to continue.
Yes, it is insufferable having to watch a guy with zero business having a bat anywhere near his hands at the plate multiple times a game.
And people like to talk about it somehow creating all this strategy, but in actuality its about a wash between the strategy pitchers hitting simultaneously eliminates and the strategy needed to deal with a capable hitting DH.
I respectfully disagree. your pitcher is throwing a gem. it’s 1-0 in the fifth inning. your bullpen is absolutely spent due to an extra innings game yesterday. there’s two outs and your pitcher is coming up with the bases loaded. what do you do? if you spent more than 2 seconds thinking of the answer, you now know the strategy problems us “purists” absolutely love. it’s definitely not “a wash”.
Only the 5th inning, your pitcher is on fire and your BP is absolutely spent? Why are you seriously contemplating taking him out with only 1 out needed just because a couple runners managed to make it on? You have that little confidence in guys throwing “a gem?”
But plenty of examples in reverse. Like say your pitcher has struggled to make it thru the 2nd inning, already throwing nearly 70 pitches in the game. But hey, he’s still only given up 1 run. He now has 2 outs, a runner on 1st and 2nd and the 9-spot is up – do you yank him to keep runs off the board, or let him face the pitcher and save the BP till later when it’s needed more?
With it being a guy unlikely to get the ball out of the infield (if he’s even able to make contact) it means that question answers itself
It is more insufferable for a player making millions of dollars to play a game refuse to improve in that aspect of the game. Pitchers are professional athletes, they should be able to swing a bat and run to a base without breaking their leg. If they can’t, then perhaps they shouldn’t be involved in athletics as a career in the first place.
While I do kind of agree, it’s also not what they are paid to do – their job is to pitch, and any time spent learning how to simultaneously hit takes time away from being a better pitcher
Why can’t all of those hard-throwing position players come in and pitch effectively? Why is it always a joke whenever a position player comes in to pitch? You can’t argue that pitchers need to be able to bat at the highest level of competition when it is literally a joke, commentators and teammates smile and laugh at the spectacle, when a position player comes in to pitch.
Hell no, keep the DH in the handicaped league.
If I remember correctly the topic of eliminating the DH from the AL was last proposed along with adding a 26th roster slot for a designated “captain.” That seemed like a very promising way to approach this topic. It would ADD 30 roster spots to MLB, teams, spots somewhat reserved for experienced players.
I grew up rooting for the Reds, and have followed the Royals for the last 12 years, and have been to about 300 college games, so I have seen plenty baseball played with and without the DH and it is crystal clear to me that using a DH significantly diminishes the game.
I am always surprised to find anyone who loves the game of baseball, not just their local AL team, and supports retention of the DH. It is a mystery to me why anyone would want to gut the game of so much strategy and planning.
If you want to watch “strategy and planning” so bad watch the chess channel.
Thank you
I hear the chess channel is considering using Designated Pieces in place of pawns, and the PCPA (Professional Chess Players Association) is lobbying hard for it.
I say yes only because some pitchers get hurt hitting plus it gives another hitter who can’t Field a chance
No DH in the NL. If anything it should be eliminated from the AL, but I’m OK keeping it as it is now. It’s like saying in basketball you don’t want to see a guy who shoots 45% from the line shoot free throws. Why not bring in Steph Curry or another player who is more likely to make it?
That comparison doesn’t work here, though, since one league actually can have Steph Curry (I’d pick Steve Nash or Reggie Miller, personally) come in to shoot free throws and the other can’t. The DH argument isn’t about whether or not it should exist, it’s that it exists in one league and not the other.
I’d be 100% okay with it being abolished completely, but I’d also be okay with the NL adopting it and all 30 teams having a clone of Adam Dunn on their roster.
Either the NL adopts it or the AL drops it. Don’t care which.
There are a lot of reasons why the AL would want to keep the DH and it strictly the fact that it provides AL teams to plug in their worst fielder at the DH position and also provides them a chance to as well get in their best hitter providing a half-day off from fielding and just batting. Another reason would be that the Players Union know that if they abolish the DH entirely there would be a lot of veterans out of the game thus eliminating those that are fringe HOF capable players that are using those extra years to reach that magical 3000 hits / 500 Hr’s etc.
Imagine if the DH was not around Edgar Martinez wouldn’t even be mentioned for HOF credentials Big Papi would have had to field back then thus possibly putting himself in jeopardy of getting hurt which would have hurt his numbers and not offered the kind of contract he was making as a DH player thus possibly not being resigned by Boston.
I like the double switches because it makes the game more interesting later in the innings for a manager. But now in all sports offense is what rules and therefore NL eventually is going to have to adapt the AL & the DH . The biggest issue will be money.
It is going to take some time before the NL applies the DH rule and the only way I can see that happening is Kershaw swings gets on base and breaks a leg trying to score on a hit or the league coming up with a stupid rule by allowing pitchers to be pinch run if they reach base without having to be taken out the game sort of like an emergency runner.
I’m pretty confident Edgar Martinez could had played third or first well enough to garner stats there. Ortiz on the other hand was absolutely horrible defensively.
Edgar wouldn’t have lasted remember he had balky knees which would have possibly ended his career if not for the DH. As with Ortiz he could have played First but with his physical condition would have broken down thus could have caused Boston to rethink what to do with him. So these are reasons why the players union won’t abolish the DH as well it provides teams a chance to rest their best players 1/2 off while also preserving a veteran to continue to pad their stats.
I don’t know how people could possibly think letting pitchers hit is ok. In my opinion, it is way more fun and exciting to watch homers than to see a pitcher strike out every time. I don’t care about strategy or when people say “that’s how the game is supposed to be played” Pitchers should be making their contributions on the mound only
So no strategy so might as well get rid of all rules then which they have done by not allowing pitchers to throw inside without being warned or tossed out, Not allowing a runner to barrel over a 2nd baseman or catcher, not allowing a pitcher to literally throw four intentional balls what is next let’s just let the players hit off a tee and call it a day.
If they want to adopt the DH rule in both leagues then its time to adapt a salary cap then you are playing on an even playing field where small market teams in the NL can now sigh players that are destined to be DH position and not only be signed by the big market teams.
Just keep things as they are. Too much an split among fans for any changes to be made at this time.
Almost a 50/50 split on my previous comment (so far ), how amusingly ironic…
Get rid of the DH in the minors and pitchers will start to learn to hit better. I would hate to see the NL adopt the DH. If anything, the AL should get rid of it
Here is what really cracks me up. Yesterday and today a hot topic on MLB Network is shifts. Should shifts be banned etc. A great many rightfully say don’t ban the shift…..the batter should learn to play the game and hit the ball the other way, yet many of those same people are pro DH.
So basically, position players should learn to play the game, learn to go the other way (which I fully agree with) or the player and team suffer the consequences.
My argument against the DH has never been strategy, It has been that all ball players should be required to hit, field, run and throw (as their position requires it.)
It’s acceptable to have an OF who can’t or won’t outsmart the shift but can field. It’s acceptable to have a catcher who can call a great game and has cheating…I mean pitch framing skills… but can’t crack the Mendoza line, It’s acceptable for a player to create tornados at a 35-40% clip because he can occasionally park one in the seats.
These things are acceptable because they have other skills. They still have to field, run, throw and try to hit even though they stink at it but heaven forbid a pitcher should have to participate in every aspect including swinging a bat. If he can’t hit than he and the team accept the consequences.
Immediately fine with DHing (or not ), but you make some really good points. Problem is, DH is a job slot for offensive-only players. Job gets player money, player gets players association money. Getting rid of it means that said player (usually) gets less money , which means the players association gets less money. Less money means more discord between MLBPA and AL+NL. Why take a chance to add more strategy when you risk to lose more money?
Nonetheless, I’m with you on this.
“player (usually) gets less money , which means the players association gets less money.” Actually it doesn’t change that at all. Roster size is the same DH or not and MLBPA dues are a flat rate….in the $75-$85 range per player per game if memory serves…I will look it up again when I get a chance.
I was off a bit….”The players’ dues are $70 per day during the season.”
mlbpa.org/faq.aspx
Well said!
Watching most pitchers hit is like watching kickers try to make a tackle
Well maybe the NFL will adopt a designated tackler.
Personally- I love watching kickers tackle. It adds to the entertainment. Which is why I am watching anyhow
I like that the two leagues have slightly different rules. No other sport really has something like that. It’s neat.
Keep it the way it is…
Let the people who like mindless TTO watch the AL and let people who want to watch something almost kinda similar to baseball watch the NL.
I’ll take the NL any day.
I never thought I would say this, but YES! With so many interleague games now, it just makes too much sense. Sure, you lose the strategic side that NL managers have to play around with, but other than there is no negative to it. You have 150-200 million dollar investments paid to pitch getting injured on the bases. 9 times out of 10 the pitcher’s spot is an automatic out. It’s boring to watch, it’s just unnecessary. The game has evolved, I mean how many people fought against replay? How many are against computers calling balls and strikes (which I also believe will happen). I get the history and charm of the game, but things change. Back when the only time it was AL vs NL was the AS game and WS it was different, now these teams routinely play each other. I think there should be no AL or NL. It should be 8 divisions and no wild cards.
N, NW, NE, E, W, S, SW, SE
It would enhance rivalries, and help with ridiculous travel.
Rule 1.01: Baseball is a game between two teams of nine players each, under direction of a manager, played on an enclosed field in accordance with these rules, under jurisdiction of one or more umpires.
I’m no rocket surgeon, but having a DH seems to conflict with the very first rule. Besides- why do you designate a player to hit for a categorically bad hitter? At what point do you start the discussion of DH’ing for catchers too? With a premium placed on game callers and field generals, you just don’t see that many good hitting catchers either. They typically can’t run either. Do you look at instituting a designated runner since catchers are typically well behind their peers in that category as well? Make the pitcher hit in both leagues.
That’s a good point, or in the case of Ohtani, when he pitches he can’t hit. Why not use the DH for a poor hitting catcher or infielder? There are numerous pitchers who are least serviceable batters.
JoeyJBats….DH can only be used for a pitcher, no one else. It is decide prior to game time by each manager. If the Angels wanted Ohtani to hit for himself he could, and prior to his injury Angels management even stated that they were considering it for later in the year (there was an article on MLBTR stating just that) but, if he only lasts 5 innings then the RP has to hit or a pinch hitter.
Brewers fan here, having intensely followed them in both leagues the NL is the better league. The strategy and planning needed to get through a short start is awesome to watch. The AL is tavern league softball.
Its not awesome at all its annoying and wastes time.
Get rid of it in the AL too!
The NL is borderline unwatchable with 1 free out every time through the order. AL is superior baseball because of this too: you have to be a better pitcher in the AL because there’s no freebie. The quality of gameplay is just way better and always has been. The NL is for your grandfather and literally no one else.
Really never need to see anyone bunt ever again too. Such an utterly worthless play. Hitters hit, pitchers pitch, the end.
Start off small and adopt a highway first.
Here’s your chance to actually vote for something that matters in our lives with an outcome that still figures to have little impact in the grand scheme of things…just like voting for the office of President every four years! lol
Perhaps MLB could adopt a college of electors among us to actually make some sensible baseball decisions going forward. Who wants to start a petition?
I think the NL should just throw in the towel and become the AAAA affiliate of an AL team… haha just kidding but I have heard the age-old-lame comment that the NL is like the AAAA compared to the AL for far too long. Personally a big part of that is the lack of a DH I think. There’s no way an NL team who has no need for that extra big bat all year long is on even footing come the WS. I think for the fairness in the game that the NL needs to adopt the rule – mainly, or at least as a key reason – being so that all teams are constructed the same and there’s no advantage disadvantage to either side when playing interleague games or in the WS. Though I would be lying if I didn’t say that I do find some Pitchers hitting quite entertaining.
No. And the AL should do away with it, too.
No
I prefer no DH in the NL, but it wouldn’t break my heart if they went with it. I think the biggest effect of the DH is that it allows AL teams to offer more years to Free Agent position players. I don’t know if I want the NL to get the DH because not having it forces teams to exercise a little more fiscal restraint..
On a side note, in Inter-League play I’d prefer they use the DH in the NL parks and no DH in the AL parks. Give the opposing fans the chance to see how the other half plays.
The DH (the player) is being made obsolete by advanced analytics. Put another way how many off-seasons do there have to be where that kind of player simply is not getting paid, in some circumstances has issues getting a even a minor league contract, let alone an MLB camp invite.
So if everything is a negotiation between MLB and MLBPA, what does MLB get in return as this is a “win” for the MLBPA for DH to be adopted in the NL?
Having pitchers hit make no sense, even a regular player asked to hit only once a week wouldn’t do very well.
Having pitchers hit make no sense, even a regular player asked to hit only once a week wouldn’t do very well. There is less strategy in the NL now, pitcher aren’t pitching more than 6 innings.
I’m personaly against the DH. I don’t understand all the talk of adding the DH to create more runs to make it more interesting when the most popular sport around the world is soccer. In soccer low scoring games are the norm, sometimes even ending in a tie of 0-0. It seems that Americans of late have no attention span and need constant stimulation instead of using our brains.
Yes.Yes. YES!!!
Sorry to say but the Kraken has already been released. The DH is used in college and in the lower minor leagues. Other than the National League, AA and AAA may allow pitchers to bat in games featuring only NL teams. There is no reason for it not be used in both leagues. If pitchers can actually hit on a par with MLB hitters they can always do what Shohei Ohtani is doing with the Angels, that or the rules can be tweaked to let good hitting pitchers bat without penalty.
It’s ludicrous for MLB to have two separate rules. No other sport does this. Can you imagine the NFL, NBA or NHL having different rules when teams play in or out of conference, or in the playoffs. Pure stupidity.
If pitchers didn’t get hurt when attempting offense (Jimmy Nelson, Jacob deGrom), this would be a relative non-issue. Every time a pitcher gets hurt on offense, though, the floodgates open.
Pitchers should pitch, not hit. Put the DH in both leagues. Nobody wants to see two foul bunts and a pathetic swing and miss for strike three. The good part: it speeds up the game. Music to Manfred’s ears.
I love NL baseball with pitchers hitting, but these starting pitchers of today just aren’t prepared or tough enough. (Not enough AB’s in the minors and experience running the bases) The game has changed and now starting pitchers have been pampered so they have to be protected. The same way the NFL has changed and have been protecting their QB’s from hits. Great/ Good Starting pitchers are hard to come by and are very expensive. Like I said I loved the pitcher hitting but it’s time to change and protect the investment. You could always change the DH rule..for example if you change the starting pitcher then you also have to change your DH. And if you pinch hit for the DH you have to change the pitcher (unless it’s due to injury by either). Your DH is for that specific starting pitcher and vice versa. This should keep some strategy in the NL and bring some back to the AL. I don’t know just a thought.
I think nope. It’s not so much pitchers hitting but it’s watching the managers actually, you know, manage. Poor no managers can become just fine Al managers because it is so much easier. I read a handful of comments and I couldn’t believe that wasn’t mentioned.
What managing? All I see in either league nowadays is a manager praying that he could get 6 innings pitched or 100 pitches out of his starter and then bring in a horde of relievers for the remainder of the game. With the exception of weak hitting pitchers in the NL, nobody bunts anymore, few hit-and-runs are called for while stolen bases are becoming an endangered statistic.
It seems modern managers are too busy ready their analytics spread sheets figuring out who produces the best launch angle and exit velocity versus each pitcher to even concern himself with basic strategy anymore. They’re more concerned with deploying shifts on defense rather than figuring out a way to beat them on offense. You gotta love a game that now has countless pitching changes and few positional changes because there’s little bench left with 13 pitchers on each 25-man roster. A sport that once had multiple scenarios now now seems to be limited to two major outcomes, HR’s and SO’s.
I mean, you’re not wrong for the most part. It is still tougher to manage in the nl than the Al. Two guys on one out down by one in bottom of six with your pitcher up? Each manager does something different there is no obvious move and that’s fun to see.
My main example is ned Yost. he was bad with the Brewers. Got himself fired in a pennant race bad. Goes to the Al and it’s all good because you take the managing away from him. No real decisions have to be made in the Al
No way. Why wouldn’t I want to watch .100 hitters?
If they implement the DH in the NL, they should have all interleague games played with no DH.