The Cardinals have “renewed interest” in Royals third baseman Mike Moustakas, The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal reports in his latest notes column (subscription required). It isn’t clear how seriously interested St. Louis is, however, and Rosenthal notes that adding Moustakas would lead to a crowded infield situation. Matt Carpenter would have to be moved to either second base or first base, displacing either the light-hitting but defensively brilliant Kolten Wong, or the hard-hitting Jose Martinez and his sub-par first base glove. One option could be to flip Martinez for some immediate help in another area, Rosenthal suggests, listing the Twins as a potential suitor for Martinez — Minnesota, of course, is a fringe contender at best right now, but Martinez would be a long-term piece at first base and DH. On the other hand, Martinez has been perhaps the Cardinals’ best hitter this season and he is controllable through the 2022 season. This is just one of many scenarios that could play out involving these players, of course, as the Cards (like every front office in the game) is weighing dozens of potential scenarios as we approach the trade deadline. St. Louis still seems to be in the planning stages, as Rosenthal writes that the Cards “have yet to engage seriously on any one player.”
Here are some more hot stove items from Rosenthal’s column…
- The Brewers were interested in Royals second baseman/outfielder Whit Merrifield this past offseason and are once again inquiring on his services. The late-blooming Merrifield has continued to establish himself as a solid everyday player this season, batting .284/.358/.401 over 339 PA, plus 16 steals in 20 chances. Second base has been a problem spot for Milwaukee, and while the Brewers recently acquired Brad Miller as infield depth, Merrifield would represent a more solid upgrade at the keystone. Though the Brewers could also need rotation help, Rosenthal reports that they haven’t discussed Danny Duffy as part of their talks with Kansas City.
- Tigers right-hander Michael Fulmer is drawing a lot of interest from not just contenders like the Phillies, Dodgers and Yankees, but also from rebuilding teams like the Padres. Clearly Fulmer would be a fit for a lot of teams considering both his ability and his years of control; he isn’t arbitration-eligible until this winter, and he has four years of arbitration coming as a Super Two player. Fancred Sports’ Jon Heyman wrote earlier this week that it could be unlikely that Fulmer is actually dealt, as Detroit has naturally put a big price tag on the righty in trade talks. San Diego is deep in prospects, however, so the Friars could be one of the few teams who wouldn’t immediately balk at the Tigers’ demands.
- Brandon Drury’s return to the Yankees came with some service time implications, as Rosenthal notes that New York could have gained an extra year of control over the utilityman by keeping him in the minors until Sunday. It’s possible Drury could still be demoted again at some point this season, and if so, he wouldn’t qualify for free agency until after the 2022 season. This could potentially make Drury more valuable to other teams in trade talks, as the Yankees are deep in long-term infield options and might see Drury as expendable.
Tell me how Moose improves the cards at all? I’d rather have carp there or gyorko there if we want to move Martinez off first(which I agree with)
Moustakas is way better than Gyorko, it’s not even close.
I mean, since Jedd entered the league in 2013, they rank 139th and 144th in WAR out of the 363 qualified
Moustakas – 8.8 WAR over 2675 PA
…off a 253/308/442 line, .321 wOBA
Gyorko – 8.3 WAR over 2521 PA
…off a 244/305/426 line, .316 wOBA
Then, if you listed the top-5 WAR seasons of the two since 2013, you’d have this:
2015 – 3.8 Mouse
2017 – 2.5 Gyorko
2013 – 2.4 Gyorko
2016 – 2.2 Gyorko
2017 – 2.1 Mouse
So I’m just not so sure about this “way better” and “not even close” proclamation
Going by this years production
Fair enough, but even then there are questions.
Like Mouse has hit for just a 65 wRC+ and 267 WOBA in June, while Jedd has been dramatically worse this month at 21 wRC+, 199 wOBA
June play is pretty much the entire difference in their seasons to this point though, as we see this as their numbers going into June 1st:
284/357/441/798 with well above Average Def for Jedd
280/331/518/849 with Average Def for Mouse
Both have been bad in June, with Jedd having a comically horrible month – but is 1 month really enough to declare one of the two as far superior to the other?
Well done, Darkstar.
If anything it would be a lateral move, which makes no sense to deplete your resources and make another trade to take away a long term piece just to fit everyone. Not even a cardinals fan here. Just hate the idea
I don’t think getting Mouse makes sense for the cardinals but I disagree with your logic. Fact is, Mouse is 44 point better in wrc + this month. If it were 124 vs 80 as opposed to 65 vs 21, why would that be any different?
Two students who have A, A, B- vs. A, A, D- don’t have the same GPA
But in GPA you’re measuring past performance, not future performance. In this case you’re trying to predict future performance. That’s the difference.
Exactly, you’d think about that move if Moose was destroying the ball and totally on fire right now, but he’s not the guy that’s the guy that’s going to make them that much better or even energize them, like Donaldson would. On top of that they’re getting DeJong back in September. Moose isn’t worth wasting a prospect on if all you’re trying to do is upgrade Gyorko/Wong/Garcia/Munoz.
What the Cards need is an OF to spell Fowler. Mark Canha makes a lot of sense, he has a 1.031 OPS vs LHP this season and the A’s have already had talks with Boston about him.
You’ve confused me, Joshua.
I was replying to this statement:
“Moustakas is way better than Gyorko, it’s not even close.”
That statement is not true of their play since 2013
That statement isn’t even true for the first two months of this year
That statement is only really true when you shrink it down to solely June 2018 results
So do you declare ability level difference after a near identical 5.5 year span based off solely 1 months small sample size – a month were both saw bad results, but one was comically bad?
You fail to account that Moose lost one of those years to a severe knee injury (he had 0.8 WAR in 27 games before the injury) and another one to coming back from a severe knee injury.
Also he’s on track for 3.6 WAR (basically tied with Gyorko’s career year) this year in spite of the rough month. I attribute the tough month to playing every single day, not getting any protection in our terrible lineup and pressing because he feels like he has to drive in all the runs. On top of that, I can’t deny that he’s a streaky hitter.
It’s funny that you guys always cry and moan about Moose’s OBP and now are arguing he’s at best equal to a guy with a WORSE OBP.
Also, the Cards interest isn’t just about replacing Gyorko with Moose, they’re trying to figure out a way to upgrade second and put someone at 1B who isn’t a statue. There are more moving parts to it than this.
Gyorko has been a platoon player this year. Naturally his stats will be lower. Moose is just a left handed Gyorko.
Do you know what the best indicator of future performance is?
Past performance. Lol
Yea so I agree with you completely that Mouse and Gorko are pretty much the same player. I just disagree with the logic that “let’s throw out one bad month for both of them and not weight HOW bad that month was in our evaluation”
That’s the only point I’m making. If your bad month can be a 70 wRC+ as opposed to a 10, that’s a huge difference. If anything, why not do the opposite and say when they’re good they’re similar but measure which player has a lower valley so to speak?
I just weight everything equally unless you know of personal or physical issues with the player during a certain stretch (IE Segura sucking after the traffic death of his newborn)
Moose will be playing in a better hitters Park in stl, he will have more RBI opportunities, he’ll be playing in a winning environment all of which I think should rejuvenate him…. Gotta be a dread playing for the royals right now. I always hated playing on garbage teams. Giving up on Jose Martinez would not be part of my plan though
It seems pretty clear to me that if STL acquires Moustakas the logical plan is to move Carpenter to 2B (arguably his best position) and jettison Wong one way or another. The guy has a .191 BA, and that just doesn’t play on any contending team no matter how great his defense is.
I remember a couple of years ago that the media was portraying Wong as an up and coming big deal. He got a couple of big hits in the playoffs and suddenly he was lauded as all that.
What happened? Or was the media just looking for a story?
Things change? Just cause someone starts good doesn’t mean he stays good. Baseball is about adjustments
stan lee the manly
He wasn’t just all of a sudden expected to be good. He was a first round draft pick and was always expected to be one of, if not the, top second basemen in the game that the Cardinals would build around. He just hasn’t been able to successfully make the offensive adjustments to live up to that.
What happened is that baseball is extremely hard to predict?
Above I showed Mouse (8.8 WAR over 2675 PA, ranked 139th/363) and Jedd (8.3 WAR over 2521 PA, ranked 144th/363) since 2013.
Here I guess I’ll point out that Kolton Wong ranks 150th/363, with a 8.2 WAR off just 2100 PA over the same time
Now granted Kolton is a Def wiz where the other two hit for some power, but the overall value of the 3 since 2013 has been very similar
If you look back as recently as last year, Wong was a useful player. ~2fWAR in 400 PAs. His babip this year is .210.
Yes, you’d have to assume that BAbip will have to correct itself at least some moving forward too – and if it does, there is really little difference in the 3 (only in how they get there)
Makes it difficult to see Mouse as a true upgrade for the Cards
Who’s this Mouse guy?
I feel it is a much more appropriate nickname, and since everyone knows who I’m referring to still…
So thanks for pointing out what you apparently perceive is a typo, but Mouse it will stay for me
Fulmer to the phillies would cost a lot in return. It would have to involve sixto sanchez I think plus others.
Seems foolish to move a controllable J. Martinez for 2 months of Moustakas + what would the Twins have that fills the Cards needs??
Bullpen arms but they could get Reed or Rodney for significantly less than Martinez if the twins fall out all together
Merrifield is going to be a nice get for someone….so would Duffy, he’s been very good to great his last 7-8 starts.
D. Santana, N. Orf and M. Diplan for W. Merrifield seems like a fair trade for both sides. Might allow the brewers to trade Huira for an Ace
Two words, crack kills. Lay off that stuff before you post. KC isn’t getting all that for Merrifield unless they throw in decent starting pitcher as well.
Thats too much but people thinking Huira + for Merrifield?? Maybe the Brewers don’t want to sell low on Santana but thats not a crazy offer. Instead of saying I’m on crack, why don’t you provide a better offer….
Isan Diaz and Keon Broxton for Merrifield. Diaz is #7 in the Brewers top 10 prospects and would be a middle infield partner of the future with Mondesi. Broxton would be the #4 outfielder for now with potential to take an everyday role should the move Gordon in trade at some point.
Everyone knows they want to clear room for Mondesi so they don’t have great leverage. Therefore they aren’t getting the crazy boatload of players your dreaming of.
Keep posting your fantasy ball trades. Thank god people with real baseball IQ make the actual trades in MLB.
Lol Diaz isn’t even in the Brewers system… he was in the trade for Yelich.. who’s on crack now?
Make that Dubon instead. Forgot Diaz went in the Yelich deal.
That would still be you. No way you trade 3 prospect for a middle infielder who’s name isn’t Manny Machado. If you ran that team they would have traded their entire minor league system for Yelich.
Dubon tore his ACL, and probably doesn’t have much value right now. You should really do your research before calling other people idiots. Are you aware that Santana has been demoted, has played much worse and is currently 5/6 on the OF depth chart? At this point I highly doubt you are.
Santana was sent down to get regular playing time so he can straighten out his offensive troubles. With the surplus of quality OFs and 1B they needed to get him some regular at bats.
Actually I said you are on crack. But if you want to label yourself as an idiot I wouldn’t argue with you on that point.
You just made my point, Santana doesn’t have much value because there isn’t a spot for him and he has struggled, also saying, “Thank god people with real baseball IQ make the actual trades in MLB” is calling me stupid a synonym for idiot…
hey I have an idea! You guys both have bad trades. Now hug it out
I still don’t understand why it’s a bad trade… the guy is a 3+ WAR player with batting lines around .280/.415/.770, plus speed, an average defender and controllable for the next 4 and 1/2 years. That’s going to require something of value in return. Santana is not of use right now to a ball club trying to win a pennant and could be valuable to a team willing to give him playing time at the ML level. Orf is playing well in AAA but doesn’t have much of a ceiling and the Brewers don’t seem to want to give him a chance in the majors. Diplan in a nice middle of the road prospect to round out the deal. Explain to me where I am flawed?
1. Selling extremely low on a guy that had a 30 HR season just last year.
2. Not only selling low, but throwing in 2 more guys to get a player that you never would have traded Santana away for in a straight up deal at any point last year or the year before.
3. I’ll say it again, I never used the words stupid or idiot, but if you feel that way about yourself, your lack of self esteem is your problem.
Good luck in your future endeavors. Hopefully your parents made the basement you live in as comfortable as possible.
I am more successful then you’ll ever be, but if you feel better about yourself by bullying people online than so be it.
Also why do you feel that Santana had a better year than Merrifield last year? Merrifield had nearly 3 more wins above replacement.. That’s pretty significant.
It’s too much. take out Domingo and make it broxton then maybe?
I’m glad the crew are inquiring on Merrifield. I’ve been wanting them to trade for him since the deadline last year. I think he wouldn’t be too expensive due to his age, which would leave room to get someone like Ross or Hamels. As long as we keep Hiura I’m OK, although I’d like to keep most of our high upside pitchers as well if possible.
Fulmer for Drury, Abreu and a lottery ticket.
You’re smoking something if you think that’s a worthy deal for Detroit.
What’s Fulmer’s health record ?
How’s he pitching in 2018 ?
Not good so I’m not sure why that deal wouldn’t get it done tbh. I’d prefer the Yankees not deal for Fulmer unless is for low level/high upside guys. Fulmer was good his rookie season and hasn’t been since
That return for Fulmer is a joke. The tigers will be asking for andujar, Justice Sheffield, and chance Adams for Fulmer. Considering Fulmer has been in mlb since 2016 and in 2016 he won rookie of the year. In 2017 he was an all star and now he is up to be traded with 4 years remaining under 2.5 mil per year. The tigers have full leverage to ask for a ton especially considering his age and years of team control he could be part of the rebuild and doesn’t need to be traded
Agreed. Fulmer is controlled, has a history of success, and ace potential upside. Detroit has no reason to dump him for a backup util infielder lol. They’ll get a top 5 prospect to start with from any team they deal Fulmer for…. More likely a top 3
Preller would look pretty stupid if he traded for Fulmer considering he took the QO comp pick over him 3 years ago.
Was going to say this exact thing. Thank you. He would look absolutely ridiculous trying to acquire Fulmer now after it was widely known in baseball 3 years ago that Fulmer was offered for Justin Upton and the Padres balked. Ended up settling for what ended up being either the Hudson Potts or Eric Lauer pick in the comp. portion of the first round.
Before we bash on preller for having interest in fulmer. Dennis Lin had said on Twitter that 3 years ago fulmer was seen as more of a reliever but since has added the changeup, which has changed to fulmers advantage. He’s a different pitcher now
That draft pick had even less of a chance of sticking as an everyday player or starting pitcher.
It’s extremely unlikely that Fulmer gets moved. Nobody is going to want to meet Detroit’s asking price. He’d bring back a haul though if he does end up getting moved.
cardinals are just throwing off the league by saying they are interested in moose, while secretly going after manny.
Boone supposedly said that Drury is up for good and will not be sent back down. Probably to avoid a grievance but another team could still do it should he be traded.
If I’m the Phillies I hold onto Sixto. I think Fulmer has lost a some value. His FIP and ERA+ are all trending in the wrong direction. So far this year he is the worst he has been in baseballs weakest division.
Sixto I think is gonna be the next phillies pitcher that will take off. He’s not worth trading for Machado either because Im sure the O’s would want him to headline the deal. I think the phillies are better off getting Hamels or Tyson Ross plus brad hand.
Whit Merrifield for Keston Hiura and a prospect from the bottom half of the brewers top 30. Who says no?
Me…and David Stearns.
Way too much. A decent prospect and a journeyman player should do it.
No way this happens. They have a better chance of trading for Darvish than trading away Hiura. Hiura, if he’s traded, will be in a deal for an ace.
If the Royals and the Brewers make a trade involving Merrifield… It will be for very young high ceiling players. The Royals don’t want journeyman major-league players. They want 18 to 22-year-olds that have time and ability to develop into long-term major-league players Dayton Moore Has stated that he wants to build up the farm system. Because of past trades and poor drafting in the last 10 years the Royals farm has been one of the worst in baseball. I don’t think Merrifield brings back Hiura but he won’t be settling for Keon Broxton types.
Fuller to the Yankees for Drury, Adams, Gallegos and Heller
HAHAHAHAHAHA that’s a good one. Gotta love blind homer opinions
Drury must Hate the Yankees. They know how to run the system at players expense. Although they are smart
I believe the Cards need to sit on the talent they have and plan for next year or 2 years. they have potentially the best young roatations in baseball reminds me of Glavin, Maddux and Smoltz of the late 80s and 90s. I honestly think no one wants Wong got to be something wrong with him besides his horrible contract. Trade bait to me would be Carp, Pham, Wacca and Jedd.