The Pirates have emerged as a somewhat surprising entrant into the market for Rays right-hander Chris Archer, reports Joel Sherman of the New York Post (via Twitter). Fancred’s Jon Heyman hears the same (Twitter link), adding that his sense is that Pittsburgh’s interest in Orioles righty Kevin Gausman has been overstated. Then again, Stephen J. Nesbitt of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette joined The Athletic’s Rob Biertempfel in reporting that the Pirates do have interest in both Gausman and Orioles reliever Mychal Givens (Twitter link).
While the degree of interest in Archer and Gausman likely has some level of variance, it seems clear that the Bucs are throwing their hats into the ring on some controllable assets that could help to fortify their rotation for the next few years. Archer is controlled through the 2021 season at a reasonable total of $27.5MM, while Gausman can be controlled through the 2020 season via the arbitration process.
Both right-handers have shown flashes of elite abilities at times in the past, but neither has emerged as a clear top-of-the-rotation arm despite that obvious talent. The Pirates, under pitching coach Ray Searage, have developed a reputation for tapping into such potential in recent seasons, though the organization has had its share of misses as well. Gerrit Cole, for instance, struggled to tap into his ace potential consistently in Pittsburgh but has dramatically improved following a trade to Houston.
Pittsburgh raced out to a brilliant start to the 2018 season but floundered in the season’s middle months. They’ve surged back into contention with a torrid hot streak in recent weeks though, now sitting at 55-52. They’re still seven games out of the NL Central lead, trailing both the Cubs and the Brewers, but they’re a more manageable four games back of the Wild Card race.
Between reported interest in Archer, Gausman, Givens and Rangers closer Keone Kela, it doesn’t seem like the Bucs have much interest in dealing prospects for rentals. But, each of those four right-handers is controlled for at least two seasons beyond 2018, so it seems that the Pirates are willing to part with some future assets if it means bolstering their chances of contending for the next several seasons.
Ooooooo, watch out Milwaukee, here comes Pittsburgh!
Boy, a small market team like the Pirates can’t afford mistakes. Trading Cole was a mistake. Just think if they still had his cost controlled contract? Alas, that’s why they’re the Pirates.
They would’ve lost Cole to free agency anyway next year. He’s tripled his value this year but watch out for regression
He already has had more games like he had in Pittsburgh than what he had shown in the beginning of the year. Strike out numbers dropping. Walk numbers increasing and has been giving up some runs. Several of the wins he had gotten this year were because the Astros could outscore what he gave up. In retrun for Cole, they got a 3b that the sorely needed, a solid starter. A RP with some upside and what looks now to be a very good outfielder. in Martin. Not a mistake in my book considering what geejohnny said, he was gone next year anyway.
Cole would still be sulking about the $6,000 raise he didn’t get in 2016 if he were still here. Removing him and Cutch were addition by subtraction.
With the benefit of hindsight, those two trades that the “fans” and media here wanted Huntingdon drawn and quartered for making were not good trades…they were GREAT trades.
Musgrove and Moran are major leaguers, Feliz showed promise amid the inconsistency and Martin is crushing AA and now AAA this season. For a pitcher who was going to pout for two more years before leaving? Great trade.
Crick is already the setup man and Reynolds is a solid prospect. For a guy who isn’t as good as Marte. Or Polanco. Or Dickerson. Or Meadows. And who might not really be any better than Luplow. Who was gone after this season? Great trade.
They got 30-32 years of control for 3. A small market team can’t do it much better than that.
I wouldn’t call it a great trade yet. Musgrove looks like the best piece but he’s pitching like a 3/4 (good for 2nd best in the rotation however). Moran has been serviceable but not much more, he’s just looking like a placeholder for Hayes. Feliz has been hot garbage and Martin, while impressive in the minors, is still unproven.
Not a great trade by any means. Musgrove is a good starter but G Cole was always going to command one good player. From any team. Moran doesn’t look like much and the rest are dart throws.
Oh yeah, losing Gerrit Cole and his 2.54 ERA was TOTALLY addition by subtraction!
Here to throw some water on this tired and played out narrative.
“Gerrit Cole, for instance, struggled to tap into his ace potential consistently in Pittsburgh but has dramatically improved following a trade to Houston.”
He has not “dramatically improved”. He has almost identical numbers to his 2015 season in Pittsburgh. 3.16 xFIP then vs 3.04 xFIP this season. 5.5 WAR in 2015 vs 6.0 projected WAR in the same 208 innings this year.
No one will know if Cole has tapped into his “ace potential consistently” in Houston until the end of next season. He could be riding the same roller coaster he did in Pittsburgh; maybe Houston just happened to get him before he descended into another dip.
Yes, it’s an extremely tired and lazy narrative for sure. Cole wasn’t happy in Pittsburgh, he was regressing here, and the change of scenery has done him well. Its a sss but Musgrove has been very good. I’d be hesitant to call the trade a loss for the Pirates until we can see what Musgrove can become, regardless of the other three guys we received.
I agree that you can’t know if he truly reached his ace potential and will stay there, but the fact he left Pittsburgh where they had him throwing his sinker over 16% of the time in 2017 and found success in Houston utilizing his slider and curve more does indicate a “miss” for the Bucs.
He never posted these kinds of K numbers in pittsburgh and he never minimized hits nearly as well as he has in Houston.
But couldn’t that be attributed to his pitch mix? Doesn’t Searage advocate pitching to contact?
I’m not saying Cole has cemented himself as a reliable ace from here on out, but he has seemingly altered his style and has delivered results. That could be seen as a “miss” for Pittsburgh when it comes to identifying what approach works for a pitcher as an individual rather than trying to have his approach fit their ideology.
Not saying the trade was bad though. The return the Bucs got was/is pretty good.
Questioning the Searage “pitch to contact” approach in an era when contact leaves the yard is very fair.
They have quietly moved away from that approach a bit as the evidence mounts, though. Kuhl and Taillon in particular changed their mix of pitches.
Adding a two seamer, however, is what led to Crick’s breakout, so the method’s value varies from pitcher to pitcher.
This Archer saga is getting tedious….
I think Archer is overrated, but that he would also benefit from a change of scenery.
Nasty stuff but he has a quick heartbeat when things get rough
Archer is definitely overrated. Maybe coming to the NL where there is no DH will help
Any guesses as to where Archer ranks in war from 2016-now in all of mlb?
Pitcher WAR is based on FIP which overrates guys like Archer who strike out a lot of batters but don’t know how to limit hard contact.
This should set off fire alarms for the Cardinals
Sounds to good to be true.
Gerrit Cole didn’t want to be in Pittsburgh his strikeouts are up but his other numbers aren’t that much better bottom line he didn’t want to be in Pittsburgh
I like the idea of trading for Archer. I like the idea of trading for Kela. I don’t know enough about Gausman to say one way or another, but I do like Givens.
Archer is the only one I’d be willing to trade Meadows for. Keller would be off limits. The one prospect that people seem too willing to part with is Ke’Bryan Hayes. His ceiling is significantly higher than Moran’s and will likely make Moran expendable in a few years.
I’m not as sold on Keller as i once was… I’d consider a deal for archer especially if they’re sending some cash back in some form or if by chance we where getting some other talent or pen arm.
I agree on hayes, I think he will make moran expendable by the end of next season
One of the things that sucks about the Pirates is they usually have to give up a higher prospect in a deal than most teams because they look for trading partners to pick up a big part of a remaining contract. That dwindles the top guys in their farm system more than most teams, which leaves them less to work with in the future.
Trade meadows, anyone out minors to get a controllable pitcher for next few years. Can always draft and replenish minors. Get what you can now. If someone will take Harrison, throw him in
Need to get this done! Try to keep Keller and Hayes but anyone else can go.
Archer would be nice, but I’m afraid the cost will be far too much. I’d rather call the Yankees about Sonny Gray. Similar talent level, needs out of the AL east (and maybe out of the Yankees’ pitching philosophy, one that’s the polar opposite of the Pirates’), and appears to be out of favor given their SP acquisitions.
Sonny Gray and Archer are of a similar talent level? ugh…
Pirates will not make any major acquisitions. Neil will come out and state the asking prices were too high. He says the same thing every year. He traded gerrit Cole.. do you think he will take on this guys salary? Nutting is a cheap and they will place bids out just so the media catches on. Then they will not look bad. Same
Exact thing every year.
what was that? I couldn’t hear you….